Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): July 07, 2010

shravan · Post by **shravan** » 28 Jul 2010 17:01

^ The Crash happened near Pakistan Air Force HQ

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 28 Jul 2010 17:24

http://pakteahouse.wordpress.com/2010/0 ... lose-call/
Bad weather.

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 28 Jul 2010 17:32

2 americans amongst dead, US Embassy made no further comment

Dilbu · Post by **Dilbu** » 28 Jul 2010 17:43

Malik wants inquiry into route change

ISLAMABAD: Federal Interior Minister Rehman A Malik, grieved over the disastrous accident that killed several people this morning in Islamabad, said the inquiry would be conducted to ascertain the cause as to why the plane was on wrong route, Geo News reported Wednesday.

Speaking about the incident, he said the plane was signaled to land on the runway at a time when it was flying at a height of 2500 feet; however, the plane started to soar higher and reached 3,000 feet after the landing permission.

Malik said the search for the black box is on the go; so that, the actual course of the incident could be found out.

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 28 Jul 2010 17:45

perhaps the plane was carrying a crate of mangoes?

Dilbu · Post by **Dilbu** » 28 Jul 2010 17:50

Pakistan only country, China enjoys all-weather friendship: Liu Jian

The Chinese Ambassador said that Pakistan is the only country in world with which China is enjoying an all-weather friendship. “Our military and civil relations have reached new height, meeting the common aspirations of their people”, he remarked.

From tarrell than mountain to arr-weathel, the fliendship continues.

Brad Goodman · Post by **Brad Goodman** » 28 Jul 2010 20:04

Cross posting from India US thread

This article sums up the answers to my question

Pakistan's India obsession behind its double game: US experts

The head of the private global intelligence agency, as Stratfor calls itself, goes to the extent of saying the US itself has created a situation for Pakistan to play the double game 'of overt opposition to the Taliban and covert support for the Taliban' as it does not want to see the emergence of India as the sole regional power if Pakistan collapses.

'This is duplicitous only if you close your eyes to the Pakistani reality, which the Americans never did,' Friedman said. 'There was ample evidence, as the WikiLeaks show, of covert ISI ties to the Taliban. The Americans knew they couldn't break those ties.'

'They settled for what support Pakistan could give them while constantly pressing them harder and harder until genuine fears in Washington emerged that Pakistan could destabilise altogether,' he said.

'Since a stable Pakistan is more important to the United States than a victory in Afghanistan - which it wasn't going to get anyway - the United States released pressure and increased aid. If Pakistan collapsed, then India would be the sole regional power, not something the United States wants,' Friedman said.

'Given that the United States is powerful and is Pakistan's only lever against India, the Pakistanis will not make this their public policy, however,' he said.

arun · Post by **arun** » 28 Jul 2010 20:14

X Posted from the ISI thread.

Der Spiegel with a translated excerpt of the cover story appearing in its magazine on the WikiLeaks disclosure of classified US documents that show the malign role of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan in fomenting Islamic Terrorism in Afghanistan:

07/28/2010 03:03 PM

Washington's Hidden Enemy

Logs Suggest Pakistani Intelligence Controls Course of War

By Matthias Gebauer, John Goetz, Hans Hoyng, Susanne Koelbl, Marcel Rosenbach and Gregor Peter Schmitz

Pakistan's intelligence agency, the ISI, appears frequently in the war logs obtained by WikiLeaks. They suggest that even as Pakistan served as an ally to the United States, it was still secretly helping the Taliban in its insurgency in Afghanistan. The documents also suggest a major role is played by former ISI chief Hamid Gul.

Editor's note: The following article is an excerpt from this week's SPIEGEL cover story. The facts in the story come from a database of almost 92,000 American military reports on the state of the war in Afghanistan that were obtained by the WikiLeaks website. Britain's Guardian newspaper, the New York Timesand SPIEGEL have all vetted the material and reported on the contents in articles that have been researched independently of each other. All three media sources have concluded that the documents are authentic and provide an unvarnished image of the war in Afghanstan -- from the perspective of the soldiers on the ground.

Afghanistan's neighbor, Pakistan, has been in a tight spot since the al-Qaida attacks on New York and Washington. Officially, the country is part of the worldwide anti-terrorism coalition forged by former United States President George W. Bush. Unofficially, however, the Pakistani security forces are the patrons of the Taliban forces that gave refuge to Osama bin Laden and his terrorists. It is clear that the Taliban would not exist without help from abroad. The Pakistani intelligence service, the Directorate for Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI), helped build up and install the Taliban after the Soviets withdrew from Afghanistan and the country descended into a fratricidal war among the victorious mujahedeen, creating the threat of a power vacuum.

Despite all assurances by Pakistani politicians that these old connections were severed long ago, the country still pursues an ambiguous policy, in which Pakistan is both an ally of the United States and a helper of its enemies. …………………..

Read it all:

Spiegel Online

arun · Post by **arun** » 28 Jul 2010 20:47

Washington Post article on reader comments on the WikiLeak issue.

Reader comments reproduced in the article dish out a good pasting to the Islamic Republic of Pakistan:

The Pakistan problem

Few readers who comment today on an article and a column have good things to say about the situation in Afghanistan and the reliance the Obama Administration is placing on Pakistan for help in closing down insurgent sanctuaries.

Reader comments are not a scientific measure of anything, but a Washington Post-ABC News poll on July 11 showed the public was split right down the middle about whether it approves of the way the administration is handling the situation in Afghanistan. And that was before the Wikileaks cluster bomb. ………………….

WaPo

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 28 Jul 2010 20:53

Assume for an instant that Stratfor's George Friedman is correct, about this "Since a stable Pakistan is more important to the United States than a victory in Afghanistan - which it wasn't going to get anyway - the United States released pressure and increased aid. If Pakistan collapsed, then India would be the sole regional power, not something the United States wants,' Friedman said."

To me, the logical implication is that if Pakistan could break the al-Qaeda/other international terrorist groups' link with the Taliban; i.e., if the Pakistani Army could convince/force its clients in Afghanistan and Pakistan not to threaten the US or NATO countries, the the US would be happy to give Pakistan free rein in Afghanistan. After all, that meets all US objectives.

It follows that Pakistan is unable or unwilling to deliver this delinking. Pakistan has not kept even the L-e-T to a local scope (India, Afghanistan). It might be the usual Paki method of taking a maximalist position, or it might be that Pakistan genuinely has lost control.

It follows that the duplicity is not that Pakistan supports the Taliban. The duplicity, from the P.O.V. of the US, if Friedman is correct, is that Pakistan has not delivered on keeping its terrorist proxies confined to South Asia.

Cosmo_R · Post by **Cosmo_R** » 28 Jul 2010 20:55

To get an idea of the various games Hamid Gul plays, Google the following:

uzma gul afghanistan trucking

Now, guess who might be transporting fuel and equipment for the Americans and why this particular trucking company has a good arrival record.

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 28 Jul 2010 21:00

Guys:

This revelation by Strafor, something we always knew, is stunning nevethless. I hope it is more widely disseminated to foster more debate. If anybody knows the amount of $s US pumps into think tanks, Pentagon, state dept etc into analyzing furture threats to the US empire, you can be rest assured that US has gamed all kinds of scenarios for several decades hence. Thus, unless there is a massive game changer, India is boxed in with TSP for the forseeable future. The only silver lining I see is that IMO, USA will not go along with TSP RAPE's dreams of re-creating the Moghul empire. USA wants a kind of balance of power between India and TSP, both serving its interests in different ways. In others words, USA has utter contempt and disdain for a self-confident, argumentative Hindu SDRE, but a submissive SDRE writing C++ code according to specs from Redmond, WA and Cupertino, CA is just fine. Question then is will this be enough to satisfy TSP RAPE or will they continue to push the button. In other words, a stable status quo will not be sufficient to pull TSP out of the rut its in, it needs constant hostility with India to sustain its nationhood. Is this something the US empire will tolerate?

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 28 Jul 2010 21:06

Altair wrote:The plane was not flying in a No Fly Zone.
There was no SOS,the ATC had not received any such calls.
link

It would be interesting to see the passenger manifest.

Here is the passenger manifest.

http://www.dawn.com/wps/wcm/connect/daw ... -202-ss-03

Anything interesting??

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 28 Jul 2010 21:15

If what Friedman says is true and we assume that Paki nukes have US PALs - it is likely that the US has made it clear to India that war with Pakistan means that Pakistan will be free to unlock their nukes.

This is contrary to what I have believed and stated so far.I have believed hat the US has cajoled and compelled India into cooperation on the suggestion that moving the nukes would get some of them out of control. But this news could mean that the US will not object if the nukes are moved for mating in a war with India. I am still not sure that this is good for the US in the long term. It is bad for India from any anglle anyway.

Manny · Post by **Manny** » 28 Jul 2010 21:20

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/michael-h ... ostComment

India Too Complacent About Pakistan Complicity in Mumbai Attacks

satyam · Post by **satyam** » 28 Jul 2010 21:22

I don't understand one thing that India too has nukes. Why doesn't it threaten Pakistan ? Looks like only India is afraid of Pak nukes.

sum · Post by **sum** » 28 Jul 2010 21:23

The Peace Caravan rolls on

The recent India-Pakistan peace talks between India's foreign minister S M Krishna and his Pakistani counterpart Shah Mahmood Qureshi may have failed mid-July in Pakistan. Call it grandstanding, one-upmanship, whatever. But that has not dented the faith of common people across the border that they can succeed where their leaders have so diligently failed.

These people -- through various people-to-people contact programmes -- keep pushing governments of both the countries for less visa restrictions, free movement of people and goods across the borders, cutback in the huge defence budgets of the two nations that has helped spawn a military-industrial complex with entrenched vested interests, dismantling of their nuclear establishment and curbing of terror acts on both sides of the border.

One such initiative is the India-Pakistan Peace Caravan, flagged off on Wednesday from Mumbai's August Kranti Maidan by Maharashtra deputy chief minister Chhagan Bhujbal.

The Caravan is scheduled to wind its trail through different parts of Maharashtra, Gujarat, Rajasthan, Delhi, Haryana, and culminate on August 14 Pakistan's Independence Day -- at Attari, the frontier town in Indian side of Punjab where they will welcome their counterparts, who have set on a similar Caravan from Karachi today, on the Pakistan side of Punjab at the Wagah border.

Then, if allowed permission, the Indian delegates will cross into Pakistan to attend a convention in Lahore on August 15, India's Independence Day.

Two days before that, on August 13, Pakistani delegates, if they get visas, will attend noted journalist and former Rajya Sabha MP Kuldip Nayar's convention in Amritsar.

The volunteers of the India-Pakistan Peace Caravan, in a symbolic gesture to show that the two countries are not very different from each other, will mix the soil they are carrying from their respective countries.

But what concrete changes on ground, cynics may ask, can these people-to-people peace-friendship initiatives achieve? Apart from lighting candles, singing friendship songs at night vigils across the Atari-Wagah what else have they achieved?

Cant believe such jokers still exist in India. Hope they spend 2 days in FATA and feel the Paki love

amdavadi · Post by **amdavadi** » 28 Jul 2010 21:26

^^^

It is like saying how come humans dont bite dog....

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 28 Jul 2010 21:35

satyam wrote:I don't understand one thing that India too has nukes. Why doesn't it threaten Pakistan ? Looks like only India is afraid of Pak nukes.

Actually India does - recall the takleef caused by Deepak Kapoor on an earlier occasion. The Indian methos seems to be to get someone else - a bureaucrat or armed forces person to make the statements while the politicians choose to appear like they can be friendly.

There is (I believe) a widespread feeling that even Pakistan does not have the appetite for nuclear war - but will be forced to move them if they are threatened. I always believed that the first thing the Bush-Amritraj combo did was to force Mushy into accepting US PALs. As a corollary of this my reading made me surmise that the U was reluctant to see the nukes moved out of their safe havens under Paki army control

The "Paki army control" meant supporting the Paki army and that is why a US loyalist (Kiyani) has followed Musharraf. In that sense Friedman is right in saying that Pakistan' stability i more important to the US than Afghanistan. But while the US has (correctly) assumed that a destroyed Paki army would make Pakistan unstable, perhaps they did not calculate that Pakistan could be unstable even with an intact army.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 28 Jul 2010 21:37

shiv wrote:If what Friedman says is true and we assume that Paki nukes have US PALs - it is likely that the US has made it clear to India that war with Pakistan means that Pakistan will be free to unlock their nukes.

This is contrary to what I have believed and stated so far.I have believed hat the US has cajoled and compelled India into cooperation on the suggestion that moving the nukes would get some of them out of control. But this news could mean that the US will not object if the nukes are moved for mating in a war with India. I am still not sure that this is good for the US in the long term. It is bad for India from any anglle anyway.

This is my understanding and the lever that US has on India. If India wants to break the impasse it has to prepare for non-war collapse of TSP. And MMSji is trying for that. We can discuss in Pak failure thread.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 28 Jul 2010 21:39

chetak wrote:
Here is the passenger manifest.

http://www.dawn.com/wps/wcm/connect/daw ... -202-ss-03

Anything interesting??

Would first query those three who didnt board the flight.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 28 Jul 2010 21:43

Rangudu, May be the Wiki Leaks storm might have deterred the Pakis from testing the NoDong? I mean it would look very provocative on their part to be seen supporting the Talibans in killing NATO troops in Afghanistan and take money from Kerry-Lugar and now test fire long rang missiles. Wont go well with the common Joe sixpack in US also.

derkonig · Post by **derkonig** » 28 Jul 2010 21:45

First of all, what is the guarantee that the manifest published is not doctored?

shravan · Post by **shravan** » 28 Jul 2010 21:46

ramana wrote:Rangadu, May be the Wiki Leaks storm might have deterred the Pakis from testing the NoDong? .

Weather...Many people were killed today in Bakistan due to bad weather.

Sridhar · Post by **Sridhar** » 28 Jul 2010 21:48

From the passenger manifest ... is this name for real?
DR.MIRKO CVJFTICANIN

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 28 Jul 2010 21:49

SSridhar wrote:US State Deptt's justifications for arms sales to TSP
“So building up the capability of Pakistan to deal with the threat within its own borders should not be seen as a threat to India,” Mr. Crowley said.
What a lie.

Maybe the F-16s have US personnel on the airbases for maintenence and filght clearance/authorization?

Cosmo_R · Post by **Cosmo_R** » 28 Jul 2010 21:50

@Sridhar^^^

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Danko_Cvjeti%C4%8Danin

Probably Croatian with paki misspelling

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 28 Jul 2010 21:51

shravan wrote:
ramana wrote:Rangadu, May be the Wiki Leaks storm might have deterred the Pakis from testing the NoDong? .
Weather...Many people were killed today in Bakistan due to bad weather.

Would be great if a lightning strikes the NoDong as its launched and self-destructs! Great psy-ops opportunity.

Carl_T · Post by **Carl_T** » 28 Jul 2010 21:52

Sridhar wrote:From the passenger manifest ... is this name for real?
DR.MIRKO CVJFTICANIN

Paki spelling. Mirko Cvjeticanin.

Rangudu · Post by **Rangudu** » 28 Jul 2010 21:54

Ramana

Not sure why they'd announce a test and then cancel it. Maybe it is weather related. Let's give it a few days.

The stern language from Mullen, Cameron etc. could also indicate a foiled or cancelled LeT dhamaka in India.

shravan · Post by **shravan** » 28 Jul 2010 21:54

Heavy rain, floods kills 34 in Pakistan: officials

Torrential rains also swept away several bridges and link roads in Swat.

jrjrao · Post by **jrjrao** » 28 Jul 2010 21:57

Madam Shrilleen the Jalebi is sure to have head explode, as soon as she reads this report in the WSJ which gives some details of the deep penetration of Uncle's ungli.

U.S. Says Pakistan Ties Have Strengthened

The U.S. military field reports released by WikiLeaks paint a picture of Pakistan from 2004 to 2009 in which the country's chief spy agency undermines and even inflames the U.S.-led war in Afghanistan.

But U.S. officials contend that in the past several months, Pakistan's stance has become much more nuanced than portrayed in the WikiLeaks reports...U.S. officials say they have seen a shift in Pakistan's attitudes toward the Taliban in the past 18 months.

Washington is pushing for deeper cooperation on counterterrorism. It has increased the U.S. military presence in Pakistan to about 230 personnel, including 120 Special Operations Forces involved in training and advisory roles. Pakistan doesn't allow U.S. combat forces to operate in Pakistan. The U.S. has trained more than 370 Pakistan military officers in counterterrorism, intelligence and other areas in the past few years.

The Central Intelligence Agency and ISI agreed this year to set up more U.S. listening posts in Karachi along with dispatching more officers from the CIA to the port city, a trade hub of 18 million people that militant and criminal groups also frequent. That dragnet is what led to the February arrest of the Taliban's second in command, Mullah Abdul Ghani Baradar.

"There's a team of crack ISI and CIA people there now," a U.S. official said, adding that the operation is likely walled off from the wing of the ISI that U.S. officials hold with more suspicion because it maintains ties to Islamist militant groups.

The U.S. and Pakistan have also established centers to share military intelligence in cities like Quetta and Peshawar, U.S. officials said.

And what will the Pakis make of this below, when Kiyani's TFTA troops funneled momin citizens of the Islamic Pureland into a meat-grinder ambush by the kafirs? How much US $$$ was gifted to Kiyani after this specific operation below, hain ji??

In a sign of increased military cooperation, a military official at the U.S. Embassy points to an incident in February when Pakistan's Frontier Corps forced militants operating in the Bajaur tribal region to flee across the border to Afghanistan. Pakistan then informed coalition forces, which dropped precision-guided rockets on the group, killing more than a dozen militants.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 28 Jul 2010 21:58

ramana wrote:
chetak wrote:
Here is the passenger manifest.

http://www.dawn.com/wps/wcm/connect/daw ... -202-ss-03

Anything interesting??

Would first query those three who didnt board the flight.

A majority of flights have people who do not board for various reasons.

Traffic

Forgot time

Better offer from girlfriend or neighbors wife!

Does not signify too much these days but still it's a point to be investigated among a hundred other things, saar.

Kati · Post by **Kati** » 28 Jul 2010 22:14

Carl_T wrote:
Sridhar wrote:From the passenger manifest ... is this name for real?
DR.MIRKO CVJFTICANIN
Paki spelling. Mirko Cvjeticanin.

"Mirko" is a common Bulgarian first name. may be used in other countries also, but giving my first-hand 2 paise....

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 28 Jul 2010 22:20

Satya_anveshi wrote: It simply doesn't matter if we want US to be buried in Afghanistan or Pakistan. It is their play and their drama. We are only spectators and should be glad if we don't get hurt in this and celebrate if we can use this for our gains.

My stance is little different. Pakistan and Afghanistan are our neighbors; we should have more interest in them than say Fiji or USA. Having interest means playing offense, defense and sometimes just sitting and watching things on the sidelines. In addition, we should not expect others to clean our backyard for us; we can be never sure of their intentions, actions and in-actions.

Cosmo_R · Post by **Cosmo_R** » 28 Jul 2010 22:25

@jrjrao: " There's a team of crack ISI and CIA people there now," a U.S. official said.."

Perhaps: "There is a team of CIA people on crack there now"?

Brad Goodman · Post by **Brad Goodman** » 28 Jul 2010 22:36

Attached is the link to the original stratfor article by friedman
WikiLeaks and the Afghan War

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 28 Jul 2010 22:38

shiv wrote:If what Friedman says is true and we assume that Paki nukes have US PALs - it is likely that the US has made it clear to India that war with Pakistan means that Pakistan will be free to unlock their nukes.

This is contrary to what I have believed and stated so far.I have believed hat the US has cajoled and compelled India into cooperation on the suggestion that moving the nukes would get some of them out of control. But this news could mean that the US will not object if the nukes are moved for mating in a war with India. I am still not sure that this is good for the US in the long term. It is bad for India from any anglle anyway.

This also demystifies the so-called Pakistan's nuke-nudity syndrome.

This revelation is no game changer for USA or Pakistan. It will be a game changer for India if and only if Indian political leadership, babudom, and media wakes up to this fact.

Brad Goodman · Post by **Brad Goodman** » 28 Jul 2010 22:41

I wish next times Holbrooke, Clinton, Mullen and party shows up for annual strategic tamasha this question is put on agenda.

Brad Goodman · Post by **Brad Goodman** » 28 Jul 2010 22:44

Can some one decipher this news

House Overwhelmingly Votes Against Resolution To Remove Troops From Pakistan

on Tuesday, with the Congressmen unswayed by reports suggesting that the U.S. is conducting a secret war in the country.

The House voted 372 to 38 to reject the resolution, which was introduced by Reps. Dennis Kucinich, D-Ohio, and Ron Paul, R-Texas. Thirty-two Democrats and six Republicans voted in favor of the measure, while three Democrats and one Republican voted "present."