Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

enqyoob · Post by **enqyoob** » 09 Jul 2010 23:40

According to a report in Business Today I read recently, fuel costs account for about 40% of the total operating costs for airlines in India, as opposed to a global average of 20%. This is due to, as expected, very high taxes on aviation fuel.

Passenger taxes are also very high. An infant ticket from India to the US we booked recently had the base fare as Rs. 7000 and the taxes at Rs. 15000 for a total cost of Rs. 22000. There must be something wrong when taxes are more than twice what the airline itself is charging you.

1. "Global" data seem old. Circa 2003 the fuel cost was ~20% of Delta Airlines' cost. Since then airline fuel prices have gone up by 50 to 100%. Ticket prices have stayed about the same. So I would say that fuel cost is at least 30%, probably more, closer to 40%, on large international airlines.

India labor costs may be lower, though Indian airline operations seem to have several more people for each function compared to what I see on US airlines.

The "tax" is a ripoff against ppl like u (and me), Abhijeet. It is the difference between ticket bought in rupees by desi Indian and videshi Indian or other. Blatantly against the Constitution but then who gives a fig about the Constitution in India? See recent case where Punjab court had to rule that an OCI could compete on merit for inclusion to represent India. Babus had decided arbitrarily that he could not -even though the Law passed by Parliament is that OCI== Citjen in all respects except voting and positions requiring security clearance. Then again, guvrmand can argue that OCI does not pay Indian tax on worldwide income, which is of course a blessing.

But it is just a ripoff.

2. Any update on Black Box revelations about Mangalore crash? Seems awfully quiet, for something that should be a straightforward answer.

3. What gives in Mumbai? Did they slash number of flights after the recent news report about Russian Roulette situation on Ground Control with totally out-of-control growth of ground traffic? I just got my rejervashun bumped from a 5:45 am flight to a 10AM flight. Wonder if 5:45 am flight got cancelled, since it is too early for Vee Eye Pees to be up and about and IPL is over.

3.

chaanakya · Post by **chaanakya** » 15 Jul 2010 20:09

Mangalore: Air crash - CoI ends second round of inquiry

Mangalore, July 14, DHNS: The Court of inquiry (CoI) constituted to probe the Mangalore aircrash led by Air Marshal (retd) Bhushan Nilkanth Gokale completed the second round of inquiry in Mangalore on Tuesday.

Air Marshal (retd) Bhushan Nilkanth Gokale told mediapersons here on Tuesday, the team has met air crash survivors, families of the victims, first person who saw the crash and informed the police, police who filed FIR and so on. We are trying to collect even the technical details related to the crash.

Black box of the ill fated aircraft is still in the US. The decoded voice of the blackbox will be included in the final report which will be submitted by the team on August 31.

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 16 Jul 2010 11:42

http://www.hindustantimes.com/audio-new ... 72908.aspx

World\'s largest passenger plane A380 lands at IGI\'s T3

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 16 Jul 2010 13:42

Acharya wrote:http://www.hindustantimes.com/audio-new ... 72908.aspx

World\'s largest passenger plane A380 lands at IGI\'s T3

Acharya saar,

What about the ubiquitous Indian canine that was also there to receive it?

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 16 Jul 2010 14:29

give the mutt his due, atleast he doesnt mooch on the freebies like the assorted media crew swarming all over this publicity event.

I liked the bed with red rose petals....can never afford it ofcourse.

Nirantar · Post by **Nirantar** » 21 Jul 2010 10:48

With number of Airbus 380 reaching to whooping 90, emirates is slated to be the largest carrier with super jumbos when they induct all by 2012. All these airbuses will be equipped with wi-fi enabling passengers to call/surf during the flight at ease.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-06-2 ... -says.html

And our poor Air Lindia...ch..ch..chh..

amit · Post by **amit** » 21 Jul 2010 11:34

Singha wrote:eye candy on T3

http://picasaweb.google.com/amitfascinates/DIALT3#
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthrea ... 6&page=245

One point that struck me is that an overwhelming majority of Pacquis who visit India do so through New Delhi. They could che che the old airport and boast that Slumabad and Lahore had better facilities.

However, now T3 is going to be a major cause for Khujli, especially when the support infra outside like the Metro line are completed.

Expect this Khujli to start appearing in the Paki media 6-8 months from now.

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 21 Jul 2010 11:35

amit wrote:
Expect this Khujli to start appearing in the Paki media 6-8 months from now.

Getting them jeolous is more dangerous

vina · Post by **vina** » 21 Jul 2010 12:40

However, now T3 is going to be a major cause for Khujli, especially when the support infra outside like the Metro line are completed.

Well our ol pal, PureFool Bidwhy seems to have had some major Khujli as well and vomited in Frontline!

manish · Post by **manish** » 21 Jul 2010 13:19

vina wrote:
However, now T3 is going to be a major cause for Khujli, especially when the support infra outside like the Metro line are completed.
Well our ol pal, PureFool Bidwhy seems to have had some major Khujli as well and vomited in Frontline!

OMG! Purefool seems to have exceeded himself this time. The guy so clueless that it is friggin' unbelievable. But knowing his track record, what else can we expect?

He goes on and on about wasteful public expenditure, wrong choice of design and building materials (?!) etc. He seems to have conveninetly forgotten that DIAL is 74% private. Not that it would matter to the typical audience that Frontline caters to.

What we have in the T-3 paradigm is the opposite: exorbitantly expensive, ecologically unsound, and socially inappropriate projects that promote consumerist gloss and gaudy aesthetics at high public expense.

Commie lifafa journalism at its best. Belongs in the PsyOps thread actually.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 21 Jul 2010 17:43

T3 is going to be a major khujli to not just pakis but brits, aussies and assorted fellow travellers. the good thing is, T3 cannot be moved and its going to get bigger and brawnier.

time to pull socks up and put some a similar fumble harmer 'modest kutia tent' in Mumbai also. and kick BIAL's behind and make them double the blr terminal asap.

we have a schedule to keep and boots to apply on various posteriers....

Vipul · Post by **Vipul** » 21 Jul 2010 20:22

Once complete in 2012, MIAL's X shaped terminal will no doubt be one of the best in the World. Given the constraints it faces for the Mumbai airport expansion, GVK group is doing a fab job.
The Original promoters of the BIAL (including L&T) wasted a good opportunity and put up the Match Box structure that would have normally done the AAI proud.With GVK group at the helm now we can expect Phase II to be matching the best internationally.

Suraj · Post by **Suraj** » 22 Jul 2010 06:22

Low cost carriers to double fleet sizes

The country's leading low-cost air carriers (LCCs) — IndiGo, SpiceJet and GoAir — are set to nearly double their fleet capacity over the next 17 months.

This addition by LCCs is set to increase the number of low-cost seats in the domestic network to 80 per cent of the total. Currently, Indian air carriers offer 115,000 domestic seats in a day and 70 per cent of this is low-cost.

The airlines, who have come out of a nearly two-year recession, have together ordered 48 new aircraft, either on purchase or on long-term lease, valued at a little over Rs 12,000 crore. It will expand their airplanes from 56 to 104.

IndiGo, the largest LCC, with a market share of 16.4 per cent, is getting 21 new Airbus-320s, of which seven will be added this year. SpiceJet, in the process of being taken over by Sun TV promoter Kalanathi Maran, will induct about 15 new airplanes during the period, seven in this financial year. GoAir, currently with eight aircraft, is adding two this year and might advance deliveries of 10 Airbuses earlier slated to come in 2011-12.

Nihat · Post by **Nihat** » 23 Jul 2010 00:11

A-380 Superjumbo @ IGI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zZcJSWfDTDM

Nihat · Post by **Nihat** » 23 Jul 2010 00:13

The Environment Impact Report on the proposed Navi Mumbai airport is not clear on several aspects and hence there is no question of giving the project a 'green nod' as of now, Environment Minister Jairam Ramesh said on Wednesday.

He said a team from his ministry will be sent soon for site inspection to further assess the project, thus indicating that it will have to wait further before the proposed airport could get environmental clearance.

The move comes just days after a spat between Ramesh and Union Civil Aviation Minister Praful Patel, who has been pushing for the ambitious project.

While Patel had charged the environment ministry with delaying approval to the Navi Mumbai airport project cleared by the Union Cabinet in 2007, Ramesh had countered it saying "serious" ecological issues needed to be addressed.

The environment ministry has returned the EIA report prepared by IIT-Mumbai to the state for want of clarity on some aspects.

Ramesh said the report was unclear on how the two rivers, --Gadhi and Ulwe-- which would be affected due to the upcoming project, would be taken care of.

"Also, the report just says that the mangrove will be saved but was vague on how it would be done," he added.

At lease 400-500 acres of mangroves will be destroyed while the two rivers will be diverted due to the project, that is being envisaged to meet the increasing traffic need of the financial capital of Maharashtra.

The Navi Mumbai airport project was approved by the Union Cabinet in May 2007, through the public-private partnership mode.

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/...ow/6197965.cms

Dileep · Post by **Dileep** » 26 Jul 2010 07:58

Smoke from cargo triggers panic at Kochi airport
A possible disaster was averted at the Kochi ariport on Sunday when a baggage containing "Boric acid powder and detergent solution" was found in a cargo baggage just minutes before a Kingfisher flight was to leave for Chennai.

Cochin International Airport Ltd PRO T Rameshan said, "The flight with 36 passengers on-board was scheduled for take off at 9.10am. The passengers had already taken their places and the cargo was about to be loaded when ground staff notice smoke rising from a baggage. They immediately took the baggage away from the aircraft and alerted the airport security and fire force."

The smoke subsided within minutes, he said, adding that the security found that it had arisen from a packet inside the baggage.

"The packet was found to contain Boric acid powder and detergent solution. The solution had spilled over and fallen on the powder causing the smoke. Within 10 minutes the flight was cleared and it left for Chennai at 9.20am," Rameshan added.

satyam · Post by **satyam** » 28 Jul 2010 00:10

SpiceJet announces order for 30 new Boeing aircraft for USD 2.7 bn

http://www.hindustantimes.com/SpiceJet- ... 78614.aspx

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 28 Jul 2010 10:21

Five star airline or fighting star airline?

http://www.hindustantimes.com/kingfishe ... 78276.aspx

Kingfisher employee arrested for thrashing passengers
Indo-Asian News Service
Ranchi, July 27, 2010

An employee of Kingfisher Airlines was arrested on charges of thrashing passengers who were agitating over the delay of a Mumbai bound flight following a bird hit here, police said on Tuesday. Krishna Yadav was arrested late on Monday from the Birsa Munda airport after a First Information Report (FIR) was lodged by a passenger against three employees of the airlines. The two other employees are absconding.

enqyoob · Post by **enqyoob** » 28 Jul 2010 19:34

Hmmm!! Gives new meaning to Shri Mallya's impressive warning:

Every employee is personally selected by me, and I have instructed them to treat you as they would treat guests in my home.

Generally, they are very good. Some are a bit "404", but always have been very polite and professional and ultimately, helpful. Seemed very well trained, light-years ahead of Havaii Bharat, Bharatiya Havaii Rekhayen etc.

negi · Post by **negi** » 28 Jul 2010 22:53

This is the 3rd time we are hearing about Radar malfunction at IGI airport.

Radar crashes at Delhi airport, flights hit

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 29 Jul 2010 11:22

nothing has a 100% uptime. thats why backup system and alternate airports are there. we are not cost-cutting on the eqpt surely...we are buying the best kit on the market I hope.

Sachin · Post by **Sachin** » 29 Jul 2010 13:44

enqyoob wrote:Generally, they are very good. Some are a bit "404", but always have been very polite and professional and ultimately, helpful.

You must also look at the place where this incident happened. It is certainly not a very law abiding citizenry out there. So either the true basic instincts in the employee got revealed, or else some one else tried the standard dada-giri and this chap hit back

.

amit · Post by **amit** » 29 Jul 2010 14:09

Nihat wrote:A-380 Superjumbo @ IGI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zZcJSWfDTDM

Did anyone notice the bird which flew in front of the plane at around 35-42 seconds of the video? That bird could have been sucked into the giant engines if the plane had been a few hundred metres in closer!
:
Even after such massive up-gradation they can't stop birds?

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 29 Jul 2010 18:00

in my exp passengers in any indian airport (esp rich business types) tend to behave fairly rudely with airline staff when they face any problem.
most of the time , its not the ground staffs fault ..... planes get delayed due to technical problems, lack of pilots, bad weather, had to wait for minister rushing to delhi to meet his mistress, ...... seldom if ever due to any fault of the ground staff who deal with passengers.

Bade · Post by **Bade** » 29 Jul 2010 20:30

I have seen that happen in Kolkata recently. The poor KF ground staff was being hassled necessarily when flights were delayed due to early morning fog. Some people in India seem to be on the edge even if they have only a 1 hr flight and no connections to catch. The domestic segment travelers seem to be the most unruly kind, in these kind of situations.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 29 Jul 2010 21:08

and that traditional indic thing about jumping up before the plane has stopped at end of runway even and opening all overhead compartments + now supplemented by calling on cellphone to inform everyone they have arrived.

even the most malingering of people become very time conscious once the plane has landed.

Kannan · Post by **Kannan** » 30 Jul 2010 10:02

Not shocking, as fares go low, you'll see airlines become the "Greyhound of the skies"

I agree, I'm wondering why the DGCA or NTSB have not at least made a preliminary report with the CVR transcript.

Sachin · Post by **Sachin** » 30 Jul 2010 11:09

Singha wrote:and that traditional indic thing about jumping up before the plane has stopped at end of runway even and opening all overhead compartments + now supplemented by calling on cellphone to inform everyone they have arrived.

Guess it is in our genes. An uncontrolled urge to repeatedly attempt to prove that "I am the greatest/toughest/busiest" and so naturally have the right of way. This is just an extension of what you see on the roads. Every body acts too busy, starts honking, try to edge past others when waiting for a .30 seconds would only reduce the chaos.

enqyoob · Post by **enqyoob** » 31 Jul 2010 07:43

Ha! You really set me off there.

Indian air travellers, esp, INSIDE India and COMING TO India, are absolutely the worst oiseules. Which is a very proud achievement, to be worse than French, Chinese and even Pakis (fortunately I have not had to travel a lot with Pakis). Women are no better than men, either.

5 examples that stick in my mind:

1. Malloostan to BOM, some years back. Plane stops, and these idiots RUSH to the front. I get up slowly, and move into the aisle at my row to get my bag out of the overhead bin, and this Mumbai type woman crashes into me, then exclaims loudly,

arre yaar, why you are bumping into me?

I asked her if there was a particular reason why she couldn't wait at her seat until the people ahead had left, and why she felt that she had to come push past me. Set her off into a screeching frenzy on how she is so small it would be physically impossible for her to be pushing anyone, etc, etc, fortunately ignored by all.

2. DUBAI, July 2010: Kingfisher counter opens, and I am walking the 2 steps to join the line already forming. This young Tamil jackass RACES to cut in front of me, like an Ernakulam auto rickshaw. OK. A few minutes go by - a fat Tamil woman RUSHES in, saying "FOUR PEOPLE!!" and pushes in front of me, joining said jackass.

After a while Supreme HQ asks: "hey, how did these people get in front of us?" I explained to her in Angreji that that they are Go-Getters, bloody rude, they will sit in the FRONT of the plane so that they can get there early. The jackass fortunately saw that there was a small space open in the line to the right of me, and cut his whole family into that space.

3. Same long night - standing in line at Kingfisher counter at BOM, to check into flight to Malloostan. This idiot comes in and pushes his cart to the left of where everyone is standing, getting ahead. Supreme HQ tells him, "Sir,the line is there (pointing back), please go and join it there". The idiot claims that there are TWO lines (and we are all standing there because we are not Einsteins like him..)

OK, that one got it from me, first in Angreji, and since he seemed clueless there, I obliged him in chaste Central Malloostani, dusting off linguistic skills unused since dealing with the Maileepadam Thendis soccer team many years ago, asking if he thought we were all just standing around enjoying the moonlight, and why he thought there were two lines when there was clearly only ONE check-in counter and person ahead. Fortunately due to the 30-hour trip fatigue it did not occur to me to ask if he was in the Ladies' Queue. Since several of those standing around certainly understood Malloostani, he seemed rather hurt. Whined that ppl in Dubai were abusing him (wonder why) and now even ppl in India were abusing him

I told him he would be fine if he just observed basic courtesies and awaited his turn.

So he let us go ahead, and cut in before the poor people behind us.

4. And that was just over when this idiot porter pushes a baggage cart to cut in same way, so in the interests of Fairness, he got it in Hindi and backed off immediately. I guess I need to brush up on my cuss words in Tamil, Kannada and Telugu too. Please provide some good statements to use, thx.

Amazingly, though, at BOM the baggage claim was semi-civilized, not so many carts jammed right up against the carousel for people to fall over. Or maybe it took so long for our bags to come that most of the Go-Getters had left.

5. Got on the plane to Malloostan, and the guy sitting next to us (first row) is on the cellphone even as the pilot starts his announcement - and get this - THE INTERFERENCE CAME THROUGH LOUD AND CLEAR, WIPING OUT THE ANNOUNCEMENT. That's the first time I have seen live proof of why they tell ppl not to use cellphones on the plane after the door is closed.

The flt attendant, with incredible politeness, asked him to put the cellphone away. On US flights, the sh1thead would have been dragged off by 3 fat TSA football players and put in a urine-filled room to await interrogation. Probably some CEO or Babu.

6. Per desi etiquette, I gather that all this makes me the Ugliest Injun of all - one is supposed to never comment in public on the rudeness of others. I wish more ppl would yell at queue-jumpers and safety-rule-scofflaws, though.

In recent years, I see more and more of the cellphone-up-the-ear generation behaving like utter idiots. One (desi I mean) kept coming into our lab in open chappals, until I sent him home to put shoes on. Buggers cut corners on every rule, with the attitude that rules are all meant for other ppl.

Currently waiting for results of my kind treatment of that worthy ..

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 31 Jul 2010 12:16

enqyoob wrote:The jackass fortunately saw that there was a small space open in the line to the right of me, and cut his whole family into that space.

Why blame desis in India and going to India onlee saar? In my 1st night in the Bay Area, I am standing in line at the Walmart check out counter, look back for perhaps 4 secs to admire a PYT in a parallel line, and turn back to find an entire desi family consisting of son, father and mother (from Bengaluru, Kerala no less!) standing in front of me in the line having neatly cut in with the deftness of a Paki grabbing bakshish. Till date I cannot figure out the djinn technique they used to achieve all that in 4 secs flat especially when I had not noticed their presence anywhere near me before that. Mom and pop were aged individuals hence were spared the tongue but the son got a crash course in hindi abuse which surely made him go

to his pals about how people from naarth speak in uncivilized tongues onlee.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 31 Jul 2010 14:14

> So he let us go ahead, and cut in before the poor people behind us

thats quite common , they will sheepishly back off until you pass, then cut right back in.

last week I was at Kamath lokaruchi restaurant with family in the breakfast queue with coupon...hungry and looking forward to some
kesari bath and cylinder idlis. two guys were ahead of us, but then *12* of his buddies in the same party were behind.
so instead of giving them 12 coupons to collect their plates after us, he hands in 14 coupons and grabs all the empty plates
on counter, leaving us to wait until fresh plates are stacked. so his 12 buddies now attempt to cross past us and
grab all the food themselves, thats when I protested and stopped them right there. their leader then agreed to make his
party wait their turn.

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 31 Jul 2010 14:21

YouTube has quite a few videos of onlookers on the ground dishing out free advice to the A380 pilot on how to land the giant aircraft.

Some backseat flying by some jats.
One Jat goes: "Arrey tyre to nikaal le!"

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 31 Jul 2010 14:30

"unsuccessful landing...uncleji tang upad karo?" at the end.

but must have been clued in chaps to wait there when the plane was expected.

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 31 Jul 2010 14:37

^^^Its a popular place to stand - most Dilli Billis know the spot.

I have actually stood on one of the runways while the resurfaced runway underwent some landing tests - during that time my grandfather had been called in to consult since he had been in charge of building the original runways and the terminal buildings at Palam including some parts of the AF station. A heady feeling to have a huge aircraft completely eclipse the sun and land almost on the top of your head - fortunately earphones were provided. Also remember him telling me that the 1st test landing ever to happen at Palam actually caused the runway to cave in!

The A380's VMU test video - for me this test is always the most dramatic of all the flight tests that they make a civilian airliner do for certification.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 31 Jul 2010 14:50

ya contrast this hands on engineering to the useless powerpoints and emails that itvity managers spend all day generating without any core understanding of the product whose teams they manage...and get highly paid for it. makes me a bit sick.

sanjaykumar · Post by **sanjaykumar** » 31 Jul 2010 23:52

Hmmm, at a conference of desi professionals, I was appalled at the line cutting habits of Indians. seemed the shorter and more homely they were, the more eager were they in a this surrogate display of penile length. Appallingly uncivilised.

Kannan · Post by **Kannan** » 02 Aug 2010 12:40

I'm used to Namakkal marketplaces, so I'm not surprised by Indians anywhere being cutthroat or crass

I was taken aback by Air India stewardesses treating Indians crappier than white folk

It's been all Lufthansa since.

manish · Post by **manish** » 02 Aug 2010 13:19

And finally, some positive news flows out of Mangalaore Airport (IXE). The New Intergrated Terminal (NIT) goes on stream after delays caused in the aftermath of the AI Express tragedy.
New Integrated Terminal Bldg of M’lore Airport at Kenjar in Action

Mangalore, Aug 2: The new integrated terminal building of City airport at Kenjar here began its full-fledged operations at 6.00 am on Monday August 2. The Air India Express flight IX 820 arriving from Dubai landed at 7.20 am albeit delayed by 1 hour 10 minutes becoming the first flight to touch down at the new terminal.

The current terminal wasn't even fit to be a bus stand, and they were operating International flights from there since 2006. The new terminal is also closer to the city by about 6-7km.

Couple of images.
Exterior - segregated arrival/departure

More check-in counters in a more airy and spacious setting (earlier one resembled an FCI godown on the inside).

Aerobridges make an appearance - weren't available earlier

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 02 Aug 2010 13:46

Is the new terminal on the other side. I have not seen this

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 02 Aug 2010 14:05

segregated level of arrival and departure (with pedestrian bridges and ramps from other areas to safety bypass these) are a feature of most civilized airports. bangkok , singapore, mangalore now, even the old mumbai...all except the clowns who designed the BIAL frontal area.

the inner departure road is kept for VIPs and cars bearing red lights onlee. save for army vehicles rest all useless hanger on types. they park for hrs and await arrival of netaji.

the outer departure/cum arrival taxi /pickup road has no space to park car properly during rush hrs to drop people because
its length is not adequate and taxis waiting for arrival passengers occupy 30% of it. there is one guy posted there to stop
cars periodically to let people cross....why oh why couldnt a ramp or underpass be provided?

people walking out to car park/bus park again have no safety have to cross a road with volvo buses pulling out. one error and a kid will pay the penalty.

the entry paths into the car park is NARROW and has 90' turn. I scuffed one rear tire of my car against pavement yesterday
due to this.

a stinky and wet sulabh toilet is the onlee place where taxi drivers crap, use toothbrushes, take a wash etc. why couldnt one at par with interior of apt be provided outside for passengers only ? people would gladly pay Rs 10 instead of sulabh Rs 1.