People's Republic of China Nov 22, 2009

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krisna
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Re: People's Republic of China Nov 22, 2009

Post by krisna »

After India, Nepal, China under Maoist threat?
After a 10-year Maoist uprising in Nepal and an ongoing, spreading red revolution in India, now the first stirrings of the communist guerrilla movement have begun in the land that inspired the rebellion – China.
Little is known about the underground party beyond that it was founded in Nov 2008 with the aim of eventually staging a "second socialist revolution" against the "traitoro us revisionist ruling bloc of the Chinese Communist Party... the top enemy of the peoples of China".
paquiness infected
bery bious unhappy with less bious :rotfl: :rotfl:
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Re: People's Republic of China Nov 22, 2009

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Re: People's Republic of China Nov 22, 2009

Post by SSridhar »

India to suspend defence exchange with China
India has decided to suspend defence exchanges with China following Beijing's refusal to allow the Army's Northern Command chief, Lt. Gen. B.S. Jaswal to join a military delegation for a high-level visit.

In retaliation, India has refused to allow two Chinese Army captains to attend a defence course and a colonel to speak at a higher defence course. While border meetings between Army personnel will continue as before, a cloud hangs over future military exchanges and even a joint exercise. It will remain so until China “unties the knot it has tied,” said senior officials.

Pointing out that India's sensitivities on Kashmir are similar to China's on Tibet, the sources said China questioning the State's status by resorting to this move was unacceptable. “There is little point in taking forward other exchanges in the defence area,” added the officials.

A senior official found it strange that while China had hosted the Army's Eastern Command chief (now the Chief of the Army Staff) even though it has claims on large parts under his military jurisdiction, it objected to the visit of the Northern Command chief even though the main discord over territory is between India and Pakistan. “It appears that Pakistan's interests are more important than their own. They seem to be more sensitive to Pakistan's concerns.”

“While we value our exchanges with China, there must be sensitivity to each other's concerns. Our dialogue with China on these issues is ongoing,” said Foreign Office spokesperson Vishnu Prakash.

Chinese Ambassador to India Zhang Yan met Foreign Office officials but sources denied that the refusal of visa to Lt. Gen. Jaswal was discussed.

Last year, India protested against the Chinese practice of issuing visas to Kashmiris on separate pieces of paper.

Asked if India would retaliate in other areas, the sources said it was not a question of tit for tat. “We have a complex relationship with China. We have taken stock of the situation and stated our position as clearly as we did in the case of stapled visas.” {Excellent. This is precisely the approach we must follow. If there is an adverse development from China, we retaliate appropriately. It could be equal or excess as dictated by the circumstance, but, we should never let go anything.}

Expressing themselves in favour of continuing with the dialogue in a wide range of areas, the sources noted that despite ups and downs in the relationship, both sides acted with maturity and were able to keep the discussions going.

Hoping that the controversy would have a “short life,” the sources said that until the boundary question was resolved, such exchanges would help build confidence among the defence establishments. “There is a degree of comfort in communicating after defence officials meet each other. It helps in improving the general atmosphere,” added officials.
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Re: People's Republic of China Nov 22, 2009

Post by SSridhar »

I was listening to the debate in TimesNow channel last evening with participation by Kanwal Sibal, Maroof Raza, a Chinese gentleman from Hong Kong and a Professor from Delhi (the last named person did not say much).

The Chinese gentleman defended China's action by claiming that with China having relationship with both Pakistan and India, could not be seen as endorsing the Indian position if an Indian General in charge of J&K was seen visiting China. He also said that China's interests in highways and pipelines from Gwadar and elsewhere through this 'disputed territory' had to be protected. He said one isolated incident such as this could not upset a relationship that has many dimensions.

Of course, he could not answer the questions posed by Sibal & Raza. But, it was revealing to hear a Chinese expert say what he said and tie himself into knots, as the MEA has also said.

China has several reasons for doing what it did. One important reason also is that the Chinese may sense that a denouement is about to happen with Pakistan getting irretrievably weaker everyday and so it has to take steps to protect the area that Pakistan gifted to PRC in 1963.
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Re: People's Republic of China Nov 22, 2009

Post by Suppiah »

I think I mentioned it earlier in this or some other thread but is worth repeating. China is stepping in the way Krishna tried to seize weapon from Arjuna and entered the Mahabharath war himself. PRC is frustrated that the Stalinist rapist goon branch office has lost its capacity to control the MMS regime. It is also frustrated that Pakbarians are becoming a basket case. Having proxies do the dirty work allowed it to issue friendly statements, fool the Indian public and let its yellow propaganda puppets sing its song in exchange for ring side seats to special events.

Now that proxies are in trouble, PRC has no choice but to step in by itself and in that process the mask is slipping. It also perhaps assumes that the dynasty will be more concerned about getting the next gen in power and hence not do anything to threaten anyone and MMS is too harmless to offend or threaten anyone. May be their reckoning is wrong.
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Re: People's Republic of China Nov 22, 2009

Post by Philip »

The Chinese are actually flexing their muscles yet again pro-actively.See the devious distinction they are trying to establish between Kashmir and Tibet.Tibet IS disputed territory though China might be occupying it.Tibet's spiiritual heritage is INDIAN through Buddhism,it was an independent kingdom before China invaded it and rightfully if any country were to make a claim to it,India should have the first right.Thus far Indian govts. have shamelessly abandoned the Tibetans saying that Tibet is China's.Had we refused to do so China would not dare to make the statements about J&K as it is doing right now.

Therefore apart from kicking Chinese defence attaches out and stopping any military contact with China,we should also make statements stating that Tibet does not belong to China,is disputed territory-so to with Taiwan,adopting a two-track diplomacy using both "T" cards.In addition, we should not just staple a visa but REFUSE visas to any Chinaman who has a Tibetan address.This diplomatic tough line should also be backed up by Indian military power on the gropund,in the air and on the high seas.Pakistan thanks to the dear Lord above and through his instrument the forces of Nature,has dealt the TSP a devastating blow through the catastrophic floods,from which it is now on its knees,nay prostrating itself before the world community to save it from total collapse and anarchy.China is therefore very worried about he collapse of its "all-weather friend",indispensable to its grand strategy of destroying India through proxy wars and internal chaos.Hence its statements on J&K is a tactic meant to stall India from trying to gain mileage out of Pak's misery both in Afghanistan,where China wants to replace the western powers there and rule and exploit the country along with Pak.This is a "skinching" tactic used by China both militarily and diplomatically.It has just done the same by sending into the S.China Sea deeps,a small manned sub to "plant" China's flag so to speak there in an area under dispute with other South-East Asian nations.If China is given an inch,it will take a mile and given a mile it will take over a country.

One sincerely hopes that at last good Dr.Singh has woken upto the immense danger that his indifference over the last 7 years with security has placed the country in vis-a-vis China and is post-haste making amends for it.China has to be metaphorically kicked in the backside and in the teeth diplomatically to make it retreat and when treated thus it many a time backs off.When treated by its colonial masters suchlike as an "inscrutable Chinaman" during colonial days,it cringed like a mongrel on the street.India has to be pro-active in its diplomacy with China in order to stop the advancing Chinese who are advancing all across Asia and the Pacific like the desert sands.
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Re: People's Republic of China Nov 22, 2009

Post by Pratyush »

Philip,

+1, But the the question id does teh GOI have the balls to do the needful.
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Re: People's Republic of China Nov 22, 2009

Post by Philip »

Prat,I think the audacity,effrontery and temerity of the Chinese mandarins has given a kick in the ghoulies to the sleeping geriatric worthies of this dispensation,rudely awakening them from their slumber.The egos of old men grow ever larger,commensurate with their advancing years.With fast fading marital arts capabilities,**** notwithstanding, and not everyone an "N.D.Tiwari",a swollen ego is an affliction of old age,found in all politicians,especially sub-continental ones at that.Thus far we have had the Indian military prick the conscience of our worthy helmsmen with their bayonets with respect to the threat from the Dragon.But the Dragon has shoved the bayonet up the nether ends of both our babus and politicos accompanied with a breath of fire too! Such an indecent act has to prompt a response from our side,even if it has been merely a knee-jerk response in my opinion.There is as you rightly said,little evidence that our geriatrics posses ghoulies, or if they do,anything within !

PS:Do we need to see "Super-Boy" Rahul come to the aid of the nation on China just as he has come to the aid of the tribals?
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Re: People's Republic of China Nov 22, 2009

Post by D Roy »

The Chicoms are making a mistake. By upping the ante they are pushing India's China policy into the hands of the military establishment.

If the Indian military changes its policy from stalemate to offense on the border then the Chicoms are gonna get badly stretched. They are making the same mistake Germany has made twice before.

Of course the overtures by a "moderate" hurrirat to China, protests by "educated" stone throwing wannabe barbarians is beginning to make a lot of sense in the context of the IHT article about China's profile in the Northern Areas.


However the rail line to Gwadar will turn out to be as foolish as the Berlin Baghdad railway was.
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Re: People's Republic of China Nov 22, 2009

Post by Pratyush »

It’s the season for India versus China

An interesting extract from the article
As one China watcher told me, “The Chinese leadership know their growth rate is going to fall. And they worry about India beating them one day. But they calculate New Delhi will make a hash of it and miss the chance.”
Hoping that the enemy makes a mistake is not wise strategy.

JMT
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Re: People's Republic of China Nov 22, 2009

Post by Philip »

I was recently talking to a gent from India who has a v.senior position in a Chinese company that "employs milions".He was full of praise for the Chinese with graphic explanations of how they single-mindedly work to a plan,able to proooduce any item in quantities which other nations cannot match.He warned us that the PRC is making massive endeavours in teaching the Chinese English,taking cue from our success in IT mainly due to this factor.Teaching the Chinese English and foreign languages is the next big "great leap" that China is engaged in,while at home,we have brought in the "Right to Education Act" ,that actually curtails the freedom of private schools which are imparting education according to market trends.Control of education by the state through devious acts as this one is couched in the garb of establishing a "level playing field",in short bringing down the standard of schools of excellence to that of the mediocrity of state-run schools,whereas,worldwide,institutions of excellence always are in demand by the brightest students and provide youth with opportunities to excel themselves in,becoming leaders and trendsetters,enriching their nation.China is taking one direction to achieve this while we are heading in the opposite-downwards!
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Re: People's Republic of China Nov 22, 2009

Post by Pratyush »

Philip,

I don't agree with you that India is going downwards and backwards against China. The two countries India & China are two big to simply export them selves out of poverty and into prosperity & development. What they require is the ability to make their population employed and get them in the business of producing goods and services for their fellow country men. Exports can play a role but it cannot do every thing by it self.

If the Indian govt. is looking at ways of creating domestic jobs and grow domestically. It will still generate a massive amount of growth. The economic policies of the GOI are correct by and large. Except for occasional act of breathtaking stupidity by the babus. The priority of the GOI ought to be unshackle manufacturing in India, one is yet to see substantial progress in this regard. Once it is done, India will have its own great leap forward.

The Chines OTOH are extremely focused on developing an export economy the focus on mass English education suggests the same. I say let them do so. I regard this as a mistake on behalf of the Chinese because they have removed the focus from the domestic economy into export economy. How will the English speaking capacity of the Chinese help them in the vast hinterland where the productivity is low. Will it provide jobs to the Chinese masses. If not then the focus is flawed.

JMT
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Re: People's Republic of China Nov 22, 2009

Post by Philip »

Pratush.Clarification.We are going backwards in our approach to "education" in my opinion,with more state control being established,hampering management from being creative and visionary in their approach.Not a general backwards route on all fronts.But education is the root and foundation for all children to gainknowledge and the skills with which they can unleash their dreams and creativity and human resources are what makes successes of businesses and nations.People are the key and infrastructure alone cannot provide results.In this age of instant global communications,it is ideas that matter as man strives to better his way of life,with new innovations required every day in every sphere.

We can see how the Chinese are relentlessly pursuing their vision to becoming the most powerful economic power and military power by around 2050 with a single-minded determination and focus.But their method is that of authoritarianism,not allowing the breezes of freedom of thought and expression to fashion one's future as we have in India.That ensures our competitiveness through our unique creative instincts.
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Re: People's Republic of China Nov 22, 2009

Post by Pratyush »

Ok......... I seem to have misunderstood your post.

My response will be OT for this thread....

Agreed that education is the key to modern economy. However, I feel that modern Indian economy must try to find unique solutions to solve Indian problems.

Doing that may require moving away from the conventional notions of education and learning.

I don't know enough about the education policy of the GOI to comment on the direction they are moving. But I will say that they must find a solution which is unique to India and enables the population in solving the problems faced by them.

If they succeed in doing so then they would have done a great job. The first responsibility of the GOI should be to enable the common man to feed him self. Rest he will take care of competing with any one else.
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Re: People's Republic of China Nov 22, 2009

Post by krisna »

China: India military ties on track despite visa row
China said on Saturday that military ties with India remained on track, despite a visa row that some reports said led to a freeze in defence contacts between the two big neighbours with sometimes testy relations.
New Delhi, sources said, has decided it will be firm-footed on the issue and will not let it go by without proper redressal. For now, New Delhi has decided to put all defence exchanges, including training exercises, between the two countries “on hold”.
China has not suspended military exchanges with India, and nor has it received any notification from India of any such suspension, the press office of the Chinese ministry said in a statement.
But the official Chinese statement indicated that Beijing did not want the quarrel to curtail those contacts or seriously damage the overall relationship.

China takes seriously developing military ties with India, and we are confident that both sides will stay focused on the broader picture of bilateral ties between our two countries, acting in a spirit of consultation and unity to promote the healthy development of military ties, the statement said.
downhill skiing by panda. :!:
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Re: People's Republic of China Nov 22, 2009

Post by Suppiah »

It is NOT downhill skiing. It is basically telling India point blank, yes I may sleep with your wife once in a while but hey you cuckold, just act normal and dont make a noise. Expect the yellow puppets to publish a opinion piece or editorial tomorrow advising MMS to do the same...I can even draft it for them....the whole affair will be dismissed as exaggeration by right-wing media that wants Indo-PRC ties to be affected. PrC of course, can do no wrong.
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Re: People's Republic of China Nov 22, 2009

Post by SSridhar »

krisna, what China is saying is diplomatese for 'Take it Leave it'. It says essentially that military-to-military relationship will remain if India forgets this visa issue and sends somebody else.
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Re: People's Republic of China Nov 22, 2009

Post by ManjaM »

B Ramans take on the Visa problem

DEALING WITH CHINESE MACHINATIONS ON J & K

http://ramanstrategicanalysis.blogspot. ... -on-j.html
* How are we going to counter the Chinese attempts to question the legitimacy of our sovereignty over J&K and to re-open the entire issue?
* How are we going to counter the repeated Chinese actions in ignoring our protests and concerns relating to their involvement in the POK and GB?


11. Our response at the strategic level cannot remain confined to the suspension of military exchanges. It has to go beyond that. We had recognised Tibet as an integral part of China. We have shown good faith in adhering to that position. China has not shown good faith on the issue of J&K being an integral part of India. The time has come for us to re-examine our position in matters relating to Tibet. We have to make it clear to Beijing that our continued adherence to our present position on Tibet would depend on its respecting our sensitivities in matters relating to J&K, POK and GB. If it does not respect our core interests in relation to J &K, POK and GB, it cannot expect us to continue to respect its core interests relating to Tibet.


12. As a starter in the re-examination of our Tibetan policy, we should make evident the seriousness of our unhappiness with Beijing on this issue by immediately associating His Holiness the Dalai Lama with the project for the revival of the Nalanda University. ( 28-8-10)
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Re: People's Republic of China Nov 22, 2009

Post by Hari Seldon »

PRC has played its hand well.

I fully expect Dilli to play this down and get on with the program not because we are ardent cowards and all (which we well may be) but because we are not yet militarily and politically strong enough to call cheena's bluff.

And cheena knows that.

Still, miracles do happen, I'll be watching and hoping we hold our ground. Let us see.
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Re: People's Republic of China Nov 22, 2009

Post by Bade »

In one stroke PRC has raised the bar, it is not about Sikkim, Arunachal or even the exact border demarcation, but the entire state of J&K as being disputed when it has only a minor part of it under its direct illegal possesion. If India backs down now then consider J&K gone forever continuosly embroiled in militancy and other political machinations from the outside. It is now or never for India. Spending too much time thinking of Pakistaniyat issues has sapped the Indian vision in these matters.
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Re: People's Republic of China Nov 22, 2009

Post by arindam »

This is in today's TOI....

Beijing removed Indian maps from Expo, back in July
Beijing's refusal to give a visa to an Army general because he commanded troops in J&K may have hurt relations but China betrayed signs it was hardening its approach to India in July. That was when officers of China's Public Security Bureau (PSB) marched unannounced into the India Pavilion at the World Expo2010 in Shanghai and confiscated brochures bearing a map of India.

Indian government officials told TOI that the PSB said they were taking the maps away because China objects to showing Arunachal Pradesh as part of Indian territory. Beijing claims Arunachal and does not recognize the frontier as a border. The PSB is really a euphemism for the police and is empowered to monitor foreign visitors and control dissent on campuses.
Why is PRC now slowly but surely raising the ante. I agree to all the logic mentioned above and that brings me to the question, is PRC seriously considering a direct conflict with India or is it going to just bully us time and again..... or is it just testing the patience of us?? It's like PRC wants India to react just so that it can find an excuse to go to war with us and it wants us to draw the first blood... just so that it has an excuse...
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Re: People's Republic of China Nov 22, 2009

Post by Suppiah »

A serious efforts towards good relationship with China should wait until collapse of the communist regime there and even more increased irrelevance of their Stalinist puppets here, however long that takes.

Until then GOI should simply make it clear to PRC that even if we are smaller and weaker, we have options too and just ignore them and focus on building strength. It should also implement provocative measure step by step in a gradual manner. Greater respect to the Dalai Lama and increased interaction between him and Congress big-wigs is one step. Unkil cannot be trusted yes, but he can surely be trusted to enact some strategic relationship drama that sends shivers down the spine of the commies.

BTW yellow daily is playing up a paltry donation by Chinese to some Tagore institution by giving it front page status...the propaganda assault continues...
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Re: People's Republic of China Nov 22, 2009

Post by SSridhar »

Hari Seldon wrote:I fully expect Dilli to play this down and get on with the program not because we are ardent cowards and all (which we well may be) but because we are not yet militarily and politically strong enough to call cheena's bluff.

And cheena knows that.
Hari, I have always found such an argument difficult to appreciate. We dish out this argument against weaker countries as well as against stronger countries. On the Composite Index of National Capability (CINC), a measure used to compare relative strengths of nations, we have consistently maintained a 7:1 superiority against Pakistan and yet we advance the same argument against them too. To me, it therefore looks like that we tend to hide our weaknesses in such difficult-to-attain goals so that troublesome decisions are postponed for a later generation and a resonable-sounding excuse is offered to the present generation. That is how Pakistan has become a monster today and China is effectively able to tie us down against this smaller nation and prevent us from playing our role in the world stage consistent with our size and power. We may never catch up with China. What happens then ? Do we lose everything to them with our tails tucked in the behind and between our legs ? Moreover, what can PRC do if we stand up and retaliate in equal measure or even more to their bully? Strangle us economically (which they can hardly do as we are not dependent on them. In fact, they stand to lose significantly.) ? Launch an attack on us (which China cannot do anytime soon) ?

Whenever China takes up a stance it follows it consistently, never giving up a chance to register its views or protests vis-a-vis that stance. Taiwan, J&K, Tibet, Arunachal, Spratly Islands etc. We falter in this.
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Re: People's Republic of China Nov 22, 2009

Post by Jarita »

Beijing gets de facto control over Gilgit

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/fea ... 453911.cms

Wonder if Chinas moves in POK are it's own moves or are they being driven from elsewhere? Given the degeneration of Pakistan which serves as a proxy for many countries, were folks concerned that India might attempt to reclaim POK.
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Re: People's Republic of China Nov 22, 2009

Post by abhishek_sharma »

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Re: People's Republic of China Nov 22, 2009

Post by Jarita »

^^^ Disease of the Nehru-Gandhi cabal. This is what happened in 1962 as well when the Chinese were building roads.
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Re: People's Republic of China Nov 22, 2009

Post by Pratyush »

abhishek_sharma wrote:India evaluating Chinese stand

http://www.hindu.com/2010/08/29/stories ... 411100.htm
While the Chinies stand is evaluated. We will die of old age :x
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Re: People's Republic of China Nov 22, 2009

Post by SSridhar »

abhishek_sharma wrote:India evaluating Chinese stand
I get a sneaking feeling from reading the below that India may whitewash the whole affair and buckle under Chinese pressure. Time will tell.
At the same time, the officials pointed out that defence exchanges were a small dimension of the larger relationship with China.

The sources described defence ties with China as “modest'' with a “not very ambitious architecture.'' But it had led to the absence of tension on the border, though both sides have differing interpretation of the LAC at several places.

“When we talk of defence ties with China, this incident should not be taken up in isolation. Defence ties were built up over two decades since the December 1988 visit by Prime Minister Rajiv Gandhi. Except for one incident in the 80s, there has been no confrontation on the border,'' the sources added.
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Re: People's Republic of China Nov 22, 2009

Post by abhishek_sharma »

I think this is a symptom of a general malaise in our MEA. There was an article about their clashes with Home Ministry. And I am not referring to our Pakistan policy. When the Canadians denied a visa to a BSF officer, the MEA wanted to tone down the criticism because we wanted to sign a nuclear deal with them. *sigh*
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Re: People's Republic of China Nov 22, 2009

Post by derkonig »

Chinese mischief over India map continues while shameless MMS sleeps.....

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 453744.cms
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Re: People's Republic of China Nov 22, 2009

Post by SSridhar »

In search of an identity
E very summer, young Chinese from the country's far corners gather at the foothills of the Taibai Mountains in China's east. The gathering includes doctors, lawyers, college graduates and, last summer, even a couple of nuclear scientists; in short, the kind of white-collar crowd one might usually find at a Starbucks coffee-shop in downtown Shanghai.

But these young Chinese weren't at Taibai on holiday; they were there in search of answers. The cool Taibai Mountains are home to the Tiantong monastery, a few hours' drive from the eastern port city of Ningbo. Tiantong Si is a 1,700-year-old centre of Buddhist learning, and it has influenced the thought and culture of much of China's east.
There are an estimated 100 million followers of Buddhist faith in officially atheist China (some estimates say there are more than 300 million, but in the absence of any surveys or a census, as well as the ambiguity of its practice, no one really knows for sure)
In 1959, the year the Dalai Lama went into exile in India, Dakpa's family — who have lived in Gyalthang for generations— left for India. He was born in an exiled Tibetan community in Madhya Pradesh. He studied in monasteries in Karnataka and Dharamshala to become a monk. After China's opening up in 1978, Dakpa's family decided to return to Gyalthang, primarily to reunite with long-lost relatives. After his return to Gyalthang, Dakpa decided to open a school for young Tibetans. {Excellent} The school is hard to find, nestled in the maze of the town's narrow cobbled streets, hidden away between the rows of handicraft shops. “The main focus is for young Tibetans to learn about their heritage, to learn about traditional knowledge that they will not learn elsewhere,” he says. “This is important for their identity, and also for the community. Growing up in an exiled community, you are always taught that preserving your identity, your culture, is the most important thing, no matter what you do.” (The town itself, known as Zhongdian in Chinese, was renamed “Shangri-La” by the government in a bid to promote tourism.)
Visitors to Songzanlin are usually surprised to find a giant portrait of the Dalai Lama adorning the main hall, and the curious sight of Han Chinese, China's majority ethnic group, lighting incense sticks and kneeling down in front of the Tibetan religious leader. Vilified by the Communist Party as a “splittist”, his image is banned in many of Tibet's monasteries.(I couldn't visit Brahm's project in Tibet, as journalists in China are not allowed to travel to Tibet unless on a government-guided tour.)
“The Chinese people are seeking for their identity,” she said. “Buddhism, as part of our culture, is becoming an integral part of modern young Chinese beliefs.
“In the sutras, I found deep thoughts that spoke of the questions I had in my mind,” he explained. “In China, the only logic we're driven by now is the logic that ‘You should get more money'. We are taught that the answer to life's problems is to make more money. But the thing is: it's not solving the problems. It's only creating new ones.”
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Re: People's Republic of China Nov 22, 2009

Post by Pulikeshi »

^ Lamaism is the common way the Chinese distinguish those that follow HH Dalai Lama.
This as opposed to other Buddhist temples - excellent place to try vegetarian crusine by the way.
Not uncommon to find HH Dalai Lama's pictures, especially in those temples visited by Tourists :mrgreen:
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Re: People's Republic of China Nov 22, 2009

Post by SSridhar »

Jarita wrote:Beijing gets de facto control over Gilgit

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/fea ... 453911.cms
The visa fracas may be a deliberate attempt by PRC to postpone for the time being of any military-to-military contact in this situation, especially the visit of Lt. Gen. Jaswal. It could also be that India was already aware of the presence of the PLA in Balawaristan. Remember that the visa was rejected more than a month back.

That could also explain some apparent contradictions and weak attempts by the Chinese to defend their position.
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Re: People's Republic of China Nov 22, 2009

Post by naren »

This is an excellent article. It only confirms the fact that Dharmic people cannot embrace materialism for long. Sooner or later, they will have to fall back to their Dharmic roots and simpler, more responsible living. Civilizational psyche.
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Re: People's Republic of China Nov 22, 2009

Post by Venkarl »

arindam wrote:This is in today's TOI....

Beijing removed Indian maps from Expo, back in July


Why is PRC now slowly but surely raising the ante. I agree to all the logic mentioned above and that brings me to the question, is PRC seriously considering a direct conflict with India or is it going to just bully us time and again..... or is it just testing the patience of us?? It's like PRC wants India to react just so that it can find an excuse to go to war with us and it wants us to draw the first blood... just so that it has an excuse...
They are just exploiting our weakness to get access to Arabian Sea...if I were a PLA thinker....why will I sail entire Indian Ocean around India to access energy rich middle east?....I'd do the same what china is currently doing...take over POK with some support to Pak against India....why will I be a Sant type saying POK is India's..so no interference?...this sant type dharmic crap only applies to us only...and we are proud of it :lol: .....being chankiya baniya brahmin is all bull crap..its all about gobbling up whatever you can in which ever way you are comfortable with when it comes to world politics.....and we ain't there...its just a show off...."Paina Pataram Lona Lotaram"(shiny from outside but worthless from inside) is the best way to describe India and her establishment.....

Brilliantly we don't treat our weakness as weakness to overcome it but treat it as a reason to avoid situations with pakis or chinis or for that matter the almighty USA....we have too many reasons for that matter....wait till we grow financially....wait till we become militarily strong...can't afford to get our cities nuked...US would do away with us...and finally to shut everybody's mouth...we say we are dharmic/peaceful/crap etc and same piece of yapping again..so lets not question and challenge the bullying done to us by this world....actually we generate reasons even unknown to this world why India should be treated like this only...resultant is we keep loosing things strategic to India and her true people bit by bit...

like Hari saab already said.....I think we BRFites wouldn't be surprised if GoI backtracks/sidelines/evaluates/whitewashes the 11k chinese troops deployment in G,B and POK or visa refusal matter
Last edited by Venkarl on 29 Aug 2010 20:00, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: People's Republic of China Nov 22, 2009

Post by Venkarl »

Marten wrote: but de facto control of Gilgit/Baltoro being transferred to the Chinese is in our best interests. There has to be an awakening amongst the dumb across the LoC that all of the "Northern Areas" are up for sale and their best sentiments have only added to the sale price. Wonder if the rebellion across the LoC will gain momentum.
what best interests and momentum saar...no rebellion will stand a chance in front of PLA....Tibet and Uighur agitations had atleast some media coverage....G,B and POK is closed to this world...even a genocide will not be sighted there...

somebody was saying Pakistan can kiss goodbye to POK to chinese....its our "amanat" that is being traded and exploited.
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Re: People's Republic of China Nov 22, 2009

Post by Bade »

By this peaceful coup PRC has shown its ungli to Indian strategists. Well done PRC. If the parliamentary resolution on the integrity of J&K mean anything GoI should act now, if not its shows them up as sissies and boasters talking strategy 101 to the real practitioners of the art.
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Re: People's Republic of China Nov 22, 2009

Post by Venkarl »

Marten wrote:I prefer to see it in more simpler terms. There is no highway or railway line that will survive at 8-10 k and the vagaries of the weather in that region. Let them build their tunnels. This winter will teach them a few lessons in infrastructure 101.
Given a scenario where India is in control of G,B,POK and Aksai Chin....will we not disown the worrisome thoughts of winters,waters,landslides and take steps to do some development there and secure the area? will we disown the population there? why should we even guard siachen glacier given its treacherous weather?

I am not nitpicking you here Sir...my grit is against GoI's attitude towards J&K as a whole...the ownership instinct is virtually not there in Indian establishment.
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Re: People's Republic of China Nov 22, 2009

Post by Raghavendra »

Why China seized India maps at Shanghai Expo? http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/worl ... 457769.cms
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Re: People's Republic of China Nov 22, 2009

Post by Jarita »

http://www.hindustantimes.com/rssfeed/j ... 93503.aspx


The Chinese have escalated their aggressive designs on the country’s border areas and the Indian Army is prepared to face the threat. The Army has activated its airfields along the Line of Actual Control and enhanced its military presence and capabilities in the area. The roads to these airfields
have been upgraded.
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