LCA News and Discussions

suryag · Post by **suryag** » 08 Sep 2010 23:32

^^^ yeyyyyyy On that day shri PS should possibly make a "tryst with destiny" speech

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 08 Sep 2010 23:38

True it will be a red letter day for Indian Aviation.

vic · Post by **vic** » 08 Sep 2010 23:48

SanjibGhosh wrote:Flash* : Antony To Declare Initial Operational Clearance For LCA-Tejas On December 27, 2010, In Bangalore !!!

http://chhindits.blogspot.com/2010/09/f ... itial.html

finally ....

And off course IAF continues to negotiate but refuses to sign "actual deal" for next 20 LCA since March 2006 when the first batch was ordered

Sid · Post by **Sid** » 09 Sep 2010 00:26

SanjibGhosh wrote:Flash* : Antony To Declare Initial Operational Clearance For LCA-Tejas On December 27, 2010, In Bangalore !!!

http://chhindits.blogspot.com/2010/09/f ... itial.html

finally ....

Now updated post says

"*Flash* : Antony To Declare Initial Operational Clearance For LCA-Tejas On December 27, 2010, In Bangalore, EJ-200 Likely Winner For Mk-II !!!"

bhat is really happening maan

. EJ-200 for LCA... ultra cool news

jai · Post by **jai** » 09 Sep 2010 00:58

EJ-200 Likely Winner For Mk-II !!!"

I wish she/they would not publish such news, gives notice to the others to counter act....they should keep the winner a secret till the last minute....at least this way the forces get their choice ! But if this is true, I take my hat off to the decision makers....and hope this is also an indication of EF winning the MRCA contest !

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 09 Sep 2010 06:34

Austin wrote:True it will be a red letter day for Indian Aviation.

Austin - that day first occurred in the 1960s when the HF 24 Marut entered service. To the eternal shame of our politico-military-industrial conglomerate - so many years have passed since then that people have forgotten. The HF- 24 is beginning to sound as remote as saying "Chola navies went out on overseas expeditions". But it is just as true. It is important that this never happens again or another yet to be born Indian today will, in 40 years, describe India's next aircraft as yet another red letter day.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 09 Sep 2010 06:36

SanjibGhosh wrote:Flash* : Antony To Declare Initial Operational Clearance For LCA-Tejas On December 27, 2010, In Bangalore !!!

http://chhindits.blogspot.com/2010/09/f ... itial.html

finally ....

I hope this news on that blog is not like Arihant photu..an attention grabbing piece of fiction. Hope its not a case of "Let me get more hits on my blog". Need to mark out that date - it is far enough away for it to be forgotten.

Srivastav · Post by **Srivastav** » 09 Sep 2010 08:04

shiv saar....i was thinking on the same lines....ill wait till i hear anything substantial from MOD, IAF or DRDO ..... As for the EJ200 news, i wont be surprised if its similar to MRCA contestants dropping in and out of the "made it" list.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 09 Sep 2010 10:17

shiv wrote:
Austin wrote:True it will be a red letter day for Indian Aviation.
Austin - that day first occurred in the 1960s when the HF 24 Marut entered service. To the eternal shame of our politico-military-industrial conglomerate - so many years have passed since then that people have forgotten. The HF- 24 is beginning to sound as remote as saying "Chola navies went out on overseas expeditions". But it is just as true. It is important that this never happens again or another yet to be born Indian today will, in 40 years, describe India's next aircraft as yet another red letter day.

Shiv Point taken , but I see a much better and stable future for Tejas as people have realized the lost opportunity that could have been realized with HF-24. With Tejas the stake is high and the stake holders are very well committed to this project.

Willy · Post by **Willy** » 09 Sep 2010 11:21

jai wrote:
EJ-200 Likely Winner For Mk-II !!!"
I wish she/they would not publish such news, gives notice to the others to counter act....they should keep the winner a secret till the last minute....at least this way the forces get their choice ! But if this is true, I take my hat off to the decision makers....and hope this is also an indication of EF winning the MRCA contest !

If its true, could be that reports that the MMRCA is a shoot out between the EF and the Rafale are true

P Chitkara · Post by **P Chitkara** » 09 Sep 2010 14:34

Do we know from any source which of the two engines will be easier on integration?

JTull · Post by **JTull** » 09 Sep 2010 15:36

Shiv, with time memories just give negative or positive (warm) feeling. The emotions of the moment can rarely be relived unless you repeat successes of the moment. So I hope LCA IOC will be another red letter day, just as the Marut induction was (and Chola navy's excursions). These red letter days can be foreseen, but I wait for those that our nation has yet to script.

Avinandan · Post by **Avinandan** » 09 Sep 2010 15:49

LCA-Tejas has completed 1419 Test Flights successfully. (08-Sep-10).
Seems PV2 took one test flight yesterday.
http://www.ada.gov.in/archives.htm

Anybody knows the approximate number of tests (even rough estimate would do) would be required to be completed prior to IOC ?

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 09 Sep 2010 16:02

The discreet almost clandsestine manner in which EJ portrayed their engine with TVC at the last Aero-India saw me at the time post the same thought as a VAYU scribe,that they EADS/EJ had something up their sleeve.It looks like they indeed had if the reports are true that they are front runners for the LCA MK-2.This is probably what they offered,what GE cannot,a TVC engine for the LCA,"an offer one can't refuse".

Avinandan · Post by **Avinandan** » 09 Sep 2010 16:03

P Chitkara wrote:Do we know from any source which of the two engines will be easier on integration?

Below is an old post (made on 15th Sep 2009) by Austin:--

Austin wrote:So far there were reports that GE-414 dimension is not a straight fit in the hole without making structural changes on Tejas Mk2 , but EJ-200 required minimum structural changes on tejas mk2
Now the recent news from Shiv where both claim that their engine can fit in the hole , means GE-414 wins hands down.
But here is a recent IDR write up comparing GE-414 offer with EJ-200
Alternative Power Source For LCA

Hope this helps.

P Chitkara · Post by **P Chitkara** » 09 Sep 2010 16:10

Thanks a ton!

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 09 Sep 2010 16:11

JTull wrote:Shiv, with time memories just give negative or positive (warm) feeling. The emotions of the moment can rarely be relived unless you repeat successes of the moment.

Wise words.

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 09 Sep 2010 17:10

shiv wrote: Austin - that day first occurred in the 1960s when the HF 24 Marut entered service. To the eternal shame of our politico-military-industrial conglomerate - so many years have passed since then that people have forgotten. The HF- 24 is beginning to sound as remote as saying "Chola navies went out on overseas expeditions". But it is just as true. It is important that this never happens again or another yet to be born Indian today will, in 40 years, describe India's next aircraft as yet another red letter day.

Shiv,

Well said, that the failure to develop the HF 73 in retrospect was a monumantal blunder. By the IAF / MOD. But this time the things seem to be diffrent.

I have reasons to be optimistic, that, we will see the follow on to the LCA in the next ten years in the shape of AMCA. All the components needed for its design are in place. Also, the IAF seems to be interested in this design. Moreover, the DRDO is also open to the idea of taking foreign help in order to perfect the Kaveri. (I have a feeling that the kaveri will evolve in to a family of turbo fans for military applications.)

Also, the number of engines proposed to be imported for the MK 2 are listed as 199. That, added with 40 confirmed orders gives a farly decent numbers of LCAs. Even if not all of the proposed 199 engines will go into the LCA. (Some will also be kept as reserves.)

So one way or the other the LCA will be built in good numbers.

The only concern at this point of time for me is the time frame arround which the AMCA will be sanctioned by the GOI. To preserve and build on the experties developed for the LCA. Even that seems to be a matter of time. Cause the preliminary design studies / Wind tunnel tests are already seem to be completed by the ADA in order to understand what is required to build the AMCA.

As reported at livefist and other blogs.

merlin · Post by **merlin** » 09 Sep 2010 17:51

Philip wrote:The discreet almost clandsestine manner in which EJ portrayed their engine with TVC at the last Aero-India saw me at the time post the same thought as a VAYU scribe,that they EADS/EJ had something up their sleeve.It looks like they indeed had if the reports are true that they are front runners for the LCA MK-2.This is probably what they offered,what GE cannot,a TVC engine for the LCA,"an offer one can't refuse".

Wonder how many changes will be required in the FCS to accomodate the TVC engine. After all TVC means adding another control surface.

vic · Post by **vic** » 09 Sep 2010 19:22

There were some comments by ADA-HAL that they were working on two designs for LCA Mark-2 being one with GE and another with EJ. EJ is around 10-20 years ahead of GE414. TVC or even say EJ230 etc will be more useful for AMCA rather than LCA. UK is making a big push in India and EJ is basically RR of UK.

koti · Post by **koti** » 09 Sep 2010 22:14

Check the mast pics of LCA here..http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/sh ... es/page298

Arya Sumantra · Post by **Arya Sumantra** » 09 Sep 2010 22:17

merlin wrote:Wonder how many changes will be required in the FCS to accomodate the TVC engine. After all TVC means adding another control surface.

A TVC engine can always be used as a non-tvc engine by software locking its nozzle's lateral movements and thus use with current FBW. Once the "experts" are free from other pressing commitments they can modify the current FCS for the TVC mode of operation. That way the induction into the forces is not delayed and we can "upgrade" our fleet to TVC operation mode with subsequent FCS modification. A TVC engine can be used as non-TVC but not the other way around.

Arya Sumantra · Post by **Arya Sumantra** » 09 Sep 2010 22:41

Austin wrote:Shiv Point taken , but I see a much better and stable future for Tejas as people have realized the lost opportunity that could have been realized with HF-24. With Tejas the stake is high and the stake holders are very well committed to this project.

Where is the commitment? Even HF24 was procured in 153 numbers and 140 is the number touted for Tejas including MK2 ! Talk about 300-400 (incl mk2 and nlca) and a big no emerges. We did not become aerospace major after HF24, so what will be different now? On the other hand look at the type of aircraft the rivals up north have even managed to export. But our either-a-bmw-or-a-pedestrian mentality folks have kept us languishing as an importer.

And how can we even become a defence exporter? Either something is outright refused by forces in which case exporting overseas gets ruled out by bad pr OR it is accepted so wholeheartedly that local manufacturing is stretched out meeting internal demand for years and by the time it is available for export it would no longer be latest enough.

Even when GoI has sanctioned additional squadrons and could surely afford to grant more if IAF used them for indigenous fighters. But NO.

Commitment is inversely proportional to number of available foreign options.

Sometimes, one just longs for sanctions against India- a wierd & impossible type of sanctions where complete systems aren't sold to India but component level systems are. Sigh

suryag · Post by **suryag** » 09 Sep 2010 23:00

^^^ I thought the K-8 was a subsonic trainer

Arya Sumantra · Post by **Arya Sumantra** » 09 Sep 2010 23:04

^^^ my apologies for a wrong example. It wasn't designed for it but stretched to the limits by end-user which is what i read. However they surely have managed to export much more.

David Siegel · Post by **David Siegel** » 10 Sep 2010 09:11

Antony To Declare Initial Operational Clearance For LCA-Tejas On December 27, 2010, In Bangalore, EJ-200 Likely Winner For Mk-II !!!
http://chhindits.blogspot.com/2010/09/f ... itial.html

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 10 Sep 2010 09:12

PratikDas · Post by **PratikDas** » 10 Sep 2010 11:43

Suman Sharma's post and subsequent change of the title to include the prediction about the engine is on the previous page, in Sid's post.

RKumar · Post by **RKumar** » 10 Sep 2010 17:21

bl**dy ********* ... got hold of such a senstive document for LCA and posted on internet ... pls remove admins if you wish

http://wenku.baidu.com/view/9372052458f ... a5539.html

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 10 Sep 2010 17:49

hardly. I think this was scanned or submitted from some journal on aerospace. nothing classified or even halfway sensitive imho.

RKumar · Post by **RKumar** » 10 Sep 2010 17:51

to me it is like giving them best pratices which is very valuable ... how to develop a complex but successful project. US or EU companies will changes tons of money for this .... in form of consultancy.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 10 Sep 2010 17:54

well there are lots of books on the topic. imo people & funding are more important than books. china is not lacking in these.

amit · Post by **amit** » 10 Sep 2010 17:54

RKumar wrote:bl**dy ... got hold of such a senstive document for LCA and posted on internet ... pls remove admins if you wish

http://wenku.baidu.com/view/9372052458f ... a5539.html

Relax Kumar ji,

Here's the same pdf

amit · Post by **amit** » 10 Sep 2010 17:55

RKumar wrote:to me it is like giving them best pratices which is very valuable ... how to develop a complex but successful project. US or EU companies will changes tons of money for this .... in form of consultancy.

Completely agree with you. I really hope the Chinese think the same way.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 10 Sep 2010 20:03

RKumar wrote:bl**dy ********* ... got hold of such a senstive document for LCA and posted on internet ... pls remove admins if you wish

http://wenku.baidu.com/view/9372052458f ... a5539.html

Ha ha - I just heard from a friend that Chinese hackers were virtually living inside DRDO computers as users were unaware of the security implications of accessing Facebook from workplace computers. Until a foreign agency warned them that funny activities were emerging from GoI computers. What a bunch of dundering digheads.

Security in GoI computers may well be non existent. Only you won;t know about security breaches because it is kept secret from you. Don't worry have curry. Revealing sensitive documents online is not a problem.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 10 Sep 2010 20:46

Well DRDO does not need any cybersecurity , it is secure by default

karan_mc · Post by **karan_mc** » 11 Sep 2010 07:15

IAF pilots can fly Tejas on Dec. 27

Combat pilots o of the Indian Air Force (IAF) can look forward to flying the “Made in India” fighter Tejas on December 27.

The indigenous Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) will get the critical thumbs up sign in terms of safety and reliability or “initial operational clearance” (IOC) from experts. This approval will lead to the induction of the fighter into the IAF’s fleet, marking a major milestone for the Indian defence industry, Mr P.S. Subramanyam, Director, Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA), the man spearheading the pro

gramme, told this newspaper. The IAF has ordered for 40 of these combat jets (two squadrons) which will be deployed at the air force base in Sulur, Tamil Nadu.

In addition to initial operational clearance of the Air Force version, the programme will witness another high point: with maiden flight of Naval version of Tejas in December 2010.

Mr Subramanyam said: “The campaign of certification is on and all organisations involved in the programme are working to complete the process by the targeted date. Once the certification is over, it will go to the user, and that will be major milestone for the programme.”

http://idrw.org/?p=821

anandsgh · Post by **anandsgh** » 12 Sep 2010 17:02

I presume these photos are new.

http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/sh ... es/page298

Please delete if a repost.

PratikDas · Post by **PratikDas** » 13 Sep 2010 00:10

http://www.dnaindia.com/india/report_india-developing-unmanned-combat-air-vehicle_1436844

Subramanyam said the Light Combat Aircraft (Tejas) was currently undergoing the certification process, which was targeted to be completed by December 27 this year.

"Some 300 to 400 scientists are working on certification programme because the work we have done for last 20 years has to be consolidated and put to scrutiny by the certification agency," he said.

This is such great news. This is the momentum we've been praying for.

Jeff Glueck · Post by **Jeff Glueck** » 13 Sep 2010 12:42

2 fighter back to back around 1 pm
Couldn't see them properly but if its tejas then can be lsp-5