Stan just curious how rampant is this 'doping' business in weightlifting in India and elsewhere ? (It seems to me of all the sports weightlifting is most notorious for this evil).
Lastly this may be OT but what is your take on controversy around Nadal and his alleged use of steroids ?
Commonwealth Games-New Delhi 2010
-
Stan_Savljevic
- BRF Oldie
- Posts: 3522
- Joined: 21 Apr 2006 15:40
Re: Issues faced by Commonwealth Games-New Delhi 2010
Weightlifting, athletics, cycling in general are prone to doping due to the gains possible wrt the risk of getting caught. Folks (the world over) indulge in scientific doping and escape from the long arm of the law by using this clause and that -- chinis being the latest entrant in this scam. Quite a few in India do get caught -- the peer pressure, coaches/office-bearers of various associations who are complicit in the scheme, the circle of having to conform or be left out, etc. Anyone using the clause such as nasal decongestant is just bluffing, esp after things have become so quirky these days. The four who were caught used that clause, but that still deserves full scale brutal punishment of a long term ban. In fact, WADA (despite many efforts) have let folks get away due to procedural violations in testing the A sample and shady collection of the A/B samples. Many Indian weightlifters have escaped via this lousiness. The less said about NADA, the better. Despite that, there was this case a few days back where folks escaped procedurally without getting tested randomly.
No other sport in India is more egregious than weightlifting and athletics (to a certain degree). My count was that at least 20 folks have got caught in the last five years -- that is a serious under-estimation imho. Even Malleswari and Kunjarani Devi are not pristine enough. But more than all this, age related violations in age-category disciplines is a more serious problem in India. I dont know about nadal, but lancebhai the patron-saint is a definite suspect in my eyes. I will go with what Floyd landis said in this case. I used to follow everything in that area from the days of Miguel Indurain, I will skip over reports if I see one now.
No other sport in India is more egregious than weightlifting and athletics (to a certain degree). My count was that at least 20 folks have got caught in the last five years -- that is a serious under-estimation imho. Even Malleswari and Kunjarani Devi are not pristine enough. But more than all this, age related violations in age-category disciplines is a more serious problem in India. I dont know about nadal, but lancebhai the patron-saint is a definite suspect in my eyes. I will go with what Floyd landis said in this case. I used to follow everything in that area from the days of Miguel Indurain, I will skip over reports if I see one now.
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Stan_Savljevic
- BRF Oldie
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Re: Issues faced by Commonwealth Games-New Delhi 2010
I have seen chalta-hai, but chalta-hai with great power to eff up others' lives deserves a special opprobrium -- growing pains that is India.
Curious case of Joginder Singh
http://telegraphindia.com/1100904/jsp/s ... 895338.jsp
Curious case of Joginder Singh
http://telegraphindia.com/1100904/jsp/s ... 895338.jsp
Re: Issues faced by Commonwealth Games-New Delhi 2010
Can't believe AR Rahman cost Rs 5 crores for Crap CWG theme song. 
Re: Issues faced by Commonwealth Games-New Delhi 2010
^^^ Common 'wealth'; this word is taken to the extremes. This has become a game for every politician, sports groups and now musicians to mint money.
Re: Issues faced by Commonwealth Games-New Delhi 2010
chaanakya wrote:Can't believe AR Rahman cost Rs 5 crores for Crap CWG theme song.
This is easier to believe than the oscar.
That music was decidedly pedestrian.
Re: Issues faced by Commonwealth Games-New Delhi 2010
Sporting chance of success in India thanks to Global
DESPITE its shambolic preparations, the world will tune into the Delhi Commonwealth Games thanks to a handful of Australian broadcasters.
However, while media had been reporting India would not be ready for the games, he had no doubt the games and their broadcast would be a success.
Global chief technical officer Andrew Quinn said the games would benefit from having the experience of Global staff who had cut their teeth broadcasting everything from football to V8s and the Olympic Games.
He would not reveal the total cost of the broadcast from India, but said the investment by Global ran to several million dollars.
As well as providing the world feed, Global will also produce specialist coverage for Australia for Channel Ten and Foxtel.
Re: Issues faced by Commonwealth Games-New Delhi 2010
Three Indian swimmers test positive
it is shame that these continue to occur.
The players and the coaches have official rules regarding the use of certain susbtances commonly used like nasal decongestants for common colds etc which can give positive tests. why do they still use it knowingly or unknowingly.National record holder Richa Mishra and Jyotsna Pansare, both part of India's 26-member aquatic squad for the Oct. 3-14 Games, tested positive for Methylhexaneamine, used as a nasal decongestant, along with Amar Muralitharan, Swimming Federation of India (SFI) secretary general Virendra Nanavati said.
it is shame that these continue to occur.
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Stan_Savljevic
- BRF Oldie
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Re: Issues faced by Commonwealth Games-New Delhi 2010
Well, it seems more fishy -- this cant be a random misuse. WADA banned it only on Jan 1 2010 as the following article says. In fact, Nada webpage does nt even list it as they use the dated wada prohibited list.
http://hindu.com/2010/09/05/stories/201 ... 021600.htm
http://hindu.com/2010/09/05/stories/201 ... 021600.htm
Re: Issues faced by Commonwealth Games-New Delhi 2010
Govt's novel gameplan: Hide beggars in covered parks
Mera Bharat Mahaan...!!
HTTo keep beggars and destitute away from the public eye especially during the Commonwealth Games, the Delhi Government has come up with a plan to lock them away. The government plans to hide them in parks, which will be covered with tents and Games banners. Senior government officials said they have identified several locations where the beggars would be relocated till the Games are over.
And to prevent beggars from moving out, the government is also contemplating on providing them food and other necessities.
"To ensure they don't defecate in public, we will also station mobile toilets block," said a Delhi government official, requesting anonymity.
The move has come up after the Delhi government's attempt to send these homeless people to their native states failed.
"We will wrap the parks with slick banners and paraphernalia sporting Games mascot and other logos. These parks will turn into temporary shelters," the official said.
Mera Bharat Mahaan...!!
-
Vivek Raghuvanshi
- BRFite
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Re: Issues faced by Commonwealth Games-New Delhi 2010
APRIL 2010
WARGAMING
Can Terrorists / Insurgents Breach Commonwealth Games 2010 Security in India?
http://corporaterisks.info/blog/?p=289
There are 23 competitive venues, 40 training venues and International Broadcasting Centre.
There are 36 functional areas for which Volunteers will be hired and trained.
Each volunteer application will be screened by the Police. But does Police verification really screen anything beside antecedent verification?
There is a Low Probability x High Impact scenario where the terrorists / Insurgents may breach Commonwealth Games 2010 security wearing FAKE uniforms, they could be uniforms like:
1. Volunteer uniforms given to Commonwealth Games 2010 volunteers
2. Para Military uniforms
3. Rapid Action Force uniforms,
4. Police uniforms
How easy is it in India to counterfeit pharmaceutical drugs, leading fashion brands apparel logos and brand accessories, identity cards etc., the less said the better.
Can the Commonwealth Games 2010 Volunteer uniforms consisting of polo tops, tracks, T shirts, cap and shoes not be counterfeited by terrorists / insurgents.
Although Hologram is the most effective way to prevent counterfeiting, but in India where terrorists / insurgents use fake currency, how difficult will it be for them to counterfeit holograms? Are all athletes participating in the Commonwealth Games 2010 at New Delhi, supposed experts that they will be able to detect fake identity cards?
Who are the Volunteers for Commonwealth Games 2010?
They are mostly students, working executives and retired people.
What is the incentive for volunteers, except the hype of serving the motherland?
For Volunteers at Commonwealth Games 2010, it will be a place to network with foreigners and maybe network and find a job somewhere.
What prevents terrorists / insurgents from using MICE and 6 Degrees of Separation tactics to glean subtle intelligence on the movement of athletes.
What stops terrorists from cultivating hotel staff, vehicle drivers, private security experts or the state of the art Volunteers at the Commonwealth Games 2010?
How will athletes recognize anybody at all when they are on sightseeing mode at Delhi, India. Will they trust people because they are wearing law enforcement uniforms or volunteer uniforms?
What is the probability that terrorists will not be able to counterfeit law enforcement identity cards or uniforms?
Are 5 star hotels really safe in India as they are made out to be by the supposed security experts?
Are shopping malls really safe as the security experts claim that they are?
Are metros safe? If so, how can collateral damage be avoided in case the terrorists breach it.
Just by talking about disaster management and emergency management and risk management, can the terrorist / insurgent be really stopped? Just by hiring law enforcement security experts or private security vendors, can the terrorists be really stopped?
It is the worst nightmare? I will call it a Low Probability x Hight Impact scenario.
Maybe everything goes well, but WHAT IF?
Who can you really trust?
• Vivek Raghuvanshi says:
April 5, 2010 at 6:57 am
TERRORIST / INSURGENT / EXTREMIST ORGANISATIONS OPERATING IN INDIA
• United Liberation Front of Asom (ULFA)
• National Democratic Front of Bodoland (NDFB)
• United People’s Democratic Solidarity (UPDS)
• Kamtapur Liberation Organisation (KLO)
• Bodo Liberation Tiger Force (BLTF)
• Dima Halim Daogah (DHD)
• Karbi National Volunteers (KNV)
• Rabha National Security Force (RNSF)
• Koch-Rajbongshi Liberation Organisation (KRLO)
• Hmar People’s Convention- Democracy (HPC-D)
• Karbi People’s Front (KPF)
• Tiwa National Revolutionary Force (TNRF)
• Bircha Commando Force (BCF)
• Bengali Tiger Force (BTF)
• Adivasi Security Force (ASF)
• All Assam Adivasi Suraksha Samiti (AAASS)
• Gorkha Tiger Force (GTF)
• Barak Valley Youth Liberation Front (BVYLF)
• Muslim United Liberation Tigers of Assam (MULTA)
• United Liberation Front of Barak Valley
• Muslim United Liberation Front of Assam (MULFA)
• Muslim Security Council of Assam (MSCA)
• United Liberation Militia of Assam (ULMA)
• Islamic Liberation Army of Assam (ILAA)
• Muslim Volunteer Force (MVF)
• Muslim Liberation Army (MLA)
• Muslim Security Force (MSF)
• Islamic Sevak Sangh (ISS)
• Islamic United Reformation Protest of India (IURPI)
• United Muslim Liberation Front of Assam (UMLFA)
• Revolutionary Muslim Commandos (RMC)
• Muslim Tiger Force (MTF)
• People’s United Liberation Front (PULF)
• Adam Sena (AS)
• Harkat-ul-Mujahideen
• Harkat-ul-Jehad
• Lashkar-e-Omar (LeO)
• Hizb-ul-Mujahideen (HM)
• Harkat-ul-Ansar (HuA, presently known as Harkat-ul Mujahideen)
• Lashkar-e-Toiba (LeT)
• Jaish-e-Mohammed (JeM)
• Harkat-ul Mujahideen (HuM, previously known as Harkat-ul-Ansar)
• Al Badr
• Jamait-ul-Mujahideen (JuM)
• Lashkar-e-Jabbar (LeJ)
• Harkat-ul-Jehad-i-Islami
• Al Barq
• Tehrik-ul-Mujahideen
• Al Jehad
• Jammu & Kashir National Liberation Army
• People’s League
• Muslim Janbaz Force
• Kashmir Jehad Force
• Al Jehad Force (combines Muslim Janbaz Force and Kashmir Jehad Force)
• Al Umar Mujahideen
• Mahaz-e-Azadi
• Islami Jamaat-e-Tulba
• Jammu & Kashmir Students Liberation Front
• Ikhwan-ul-Mujahideen
• Islamic Students League
• Tehrik-e-Hurriat-e-Kashmir
• Tehrik-e-Nifaz-e-Fiqar Jafaria
• Al Mustafa Liberation Fighters
• Tehrik-e-Jehad-e-Islami
• Muslim Mujahideen
• Al Mujahid Force
• Tehrik-e-Jehad
• Islami Inquilabi Mahaz
• Mutahida Jehad Council (MJC)
• Jammu & Kashmir Liberation Front (JKLF)
• All Parties Hurriyat Conference (APHC)
• Dukhtaran-e-Millat (DeM)
• United National Liberation Front (UNLF)
• People’s Liberation Army (PLA)
• People’s Revolutionary Party of Kangleipak (PREPAK)
• Manipur People’s Liberation Front (MPLF)
• Kangleipak Communist Party (KCP)
• Kanglei Yawol Kanna Lup (KYKL)
• Manipur Liberation Tiger Army (MLTA)
• Iripak Kanba Lup (IKL)
• People’s Republican Army (PRA)
• Kangleipak Kanba Kanglup (KKK)
• Kangleipak Liberation Organisation (KLO)
• Revolutionary Joint Committee (RJC)
• National Socialist Council of Nagaland — Isak-Muivah (NSCN-IM)
• People’s United Liberation Front (PULF)
• North East Minority Front (NEMF)
• Islamic National Front (INF)
• Islamic Revolutionary Front (IRF)
• United Islamic Liberation Army (UILA)
• United Islamic Revolutionary Army (UIRA)
• Kuki National Front (KNF)
• Kuki National Army (KNA)
• Kuki Revolutionary Army (KRA)
• Kuki National Organisation (KNO)
• Kuki Independent Army (KIA)
• Kuki Defence Force (KDF)
• Kuki International Force (KIF)
• Kuki National Volunteers (KNV)
• Kuki Liberation Front (KLF)
• Kuki Security Force (KSF)
• Kuki Liberation Army (KLA)
• Kuki Revolutionary Front (KRF)
• United Kuki Liberation Front (UKLF)
• Hmar People’s Convention (HPC)
• Hmar People’s Convention- Democracy (HPC-D)
• Hmar Revolutionary Front (HRF)
• Zomi Revolutionary Army (ZRA)
• Zomi Revolutionary Volunteers (ZRV)
• Indigenous People’s Revolutionary Alliance(IRPA)
• Kom Rem People’s Convention (KRPC)
• Chin Kuki Revolutionary Front (CKRF)
• Hynniewtrep National Liberation Council (HNLC)
• Achik National Volunteer Council (ANVC)
• People’s Liberation Front of Meghalaya (PLF-M)
• Hajong United Liberation Army (HULA)
• National Socialist Council of Nagaland (Isak-Muivah) – NSCN(IM)
• National Socialist Council of Nagaland (Khaplang) – NSCN (K)
• Naga National Council (Adino) – NNC (Adino)
• Babbar Khalsa International (BKI)
• Khalistan Zindabad Force (KZF)
• International Sikh Youth Federation (ISYF)
• Khalistan Commando Force (KCF)
• All-India Sikh Students Federation (AISSF)
• Bhindrawala Tigers Force of Khalistan (BTFK)
• Khalistan Liberation Army (KLA)
• Khalistan Liberation Front (KLF)
• Khalistan Armed Force (KAF)
• Dashmesh Regiment
• Khalistan Liberation Organisation (KLO)
• Khalistan National Army (KNA)
• National Liberation Front of Tripura (NLFT)
• All Tripura Tiger Force (ATTF)
• Tripura Liberation Organisation Front (TLOF)
• United Bengali Liberation Front (UBLF)
• Tripura Tribal Volunteer Force (TTVF)
• Tripura Armed Tribal Commando Force (TATCF)
• Tripura Tribal Democratic Force (TTDF)
• Tripura Tribal Youth Force (TTYF)
• Tripura Liberation Force (TLF)
• Tripura Defence Force (TDF)
• All Tripura Volunteer Force (ATVF)
• Tribal Commando Force (TCF)
• Tripura Tribal Youth Force (TTYF)
• All Tripura Bharat Suraksha Force (ATBSF)
• Tripura Tribal Action Committee Force (TTACF)
• Socialist Democratic Front of Tripura (SDFT)
• All Tripura National Force (ATNF)
• Tripura Tribal Sengkrak Force (TTSF)
• Tiger Commando Force (TCF)
• Tripura Mukti Police (TMP)
• Tripura Rajya Raksha Bahini (TRRB)
• Tripura State Volunteers (TSV)
• Tripura National Democratic Tribal Force (TNDTF)
• National Militia of Tripura (NMT)
• All Tripura Bengali Regiment (ATBR)
• Bangla Mukti Sena (BMS)
• All Tripura Liberation Organisation (ATLO)
• Tripura National Army (TNA)
• Tripura State Volunteers (TSV)
• Borok National Council of Tripura (BNCT)
• Bru National Liberation Front
• Hmar People’s Convention- Democracy (HPC-D)
• Arunachal Dragon Force (ADF)
• Maoist
• People’s War Group
• People’s Guerrilla Army
• Naxalites
• Tamil National Retrieval Troops (TNRT)
• Akhil Bharat Nepali Ekta Samaj (ABNES)
• Tamil Nadu Liberation Army (TNLA)
• Deendar Anjuman
• Students Islamic Movement of India (SIMI)
• Asif Reza Commando Force
• Liberation Tigers of Tamil Eelam (LTTE)
• Kamatapur Liberation Organisation (KLO)
• Ranvir Sena
• Vivek Raghuvanshi says:
April 5, 2010 at 7:00 am
Al Qaeda Threat in India – By PETER SCHOOR
http://corporaterisks.info/blog/?p=201
The global terrorism practiced by al-Qaeda has no easily recognizable targets – the Danish embassy in Pakistan, a nightclub in Bali, suburban trains in London and Madrid, a synagogue in Tunisia, a Sauerland – Cell in Germany. This affects not only public order and citizen of a country but also companies, agencies and organizations that send employees into crisis areas or also economically active at such places.
The violence is directed against targets with high symbolic content, such as religious places, monuments, commercial and banking centers, police and military facilities or government and parliament buildings. Also, an increase of attacks on soft targets such as public transport, restaurants, cafes, nightclubs or marketplaces is observed. As another strategic motive of terrorist activities and rising are the acquisition and mobilization of sympathizers and supporters, as well as the radicalization of politically related movements.
It must be made clear that today anyone can be taken in principle, any person in any place at any time.
Due to the current generation change in its leadership structure, the re-increasing terrorist organization al-Qaeda becomes more frequent access onto young violent Muslims. Such people plan and organize their activities largely independently. It must be expected that there will be soon greater attacks with more victims. The relative high proportion of young poeple who are traveling into Pakistan or several regions in Africa to be trained at terror camps must be seen as clear warning signs.
Al-Qaeda has not been defeated by military action or has been weakened in its capacity to act danger. There is no clear determination of the terror network or proofed evidence about its executive Organization. The leadership of the group remains still active and at large. Al-Qaeda has managed to turn Iraq into a global model for terrorism and insurgency, has successfully shifted from Iraq to Afghanistan and Western Pakistan and gained strength in North Africa, also in Somalia and Yemen. Also, al-Qaeda has managed to inspire radical young Muslims continue their engagement. The use of suicide bombers still remains their most effective weapon.
Is the organization stronger today than nine years ago and now also a potential threat for India?
Yes, in any case. They are highly motivated and stable while distributing their ideology and messages using among other publishing media the Internet, Twitter and Facebook. Muslims in all countries of the world – also in India – are called up to organize themselves and join the fight of the radical Islamic terrorism. It is not yet managed to find an answer to the question of how combat this high motivation. Al-Qaeda could, either directly or with the help of its allies, repeat the attacks of 11 September 2001 at any time – even with greater effect and extent.
The renewal of al-Qaeda shows that they also use their means to secure their own economic base. This comes along with a wide range of criminal activities depending not primarily to political objectives but serve the procurement of their cash flow. The methods already became forms of organized crime. They range from smuggling, production and distribution of counterfeit currency up to drug trafficking. The most particularly evident can be seen by the example of Afghanistan, which handles meanwhile up to 80% of the world opium market. Taliban and al-Qaida thus have installed a lucrative financial business at place to meet their own needs.
Meanwhile, India is playing an important role in this cycle also. The country increasingly became a hub for the logistical support of terrorist networks within the Asian region. A special feature is the structuring of transit routes on the north-south or east-west axis by al-Qaeda supporters. Here, the transport of personnel, weapons, money, explosives and other material by car, bus or train is going to be organized.
The current strategy of the “global war on terror” is largely based on operational defense, i.e., “killing, trapping, and thwarting attacks. Groups like al-Qaeda can quickly recover from such activities, compensate their human and material losses – and fight back.
Through improved intelligence work and better operational capacities it is possible to attack supporters as well as terrorist groups in their infrastructure. If this ultimately resolves the problem remains questionable.
That biggest obstacle in the fight against terrorism is that no authority and no state are able to be prepared for all scenarios. The question remains, what can be addressed to the future handling this potential hazard. How should the strategic thinking be focused? What must be designed in view of the educational profile of this entirely new form of threat? What competencies must be present? How big is the difference between theory and practice in their daily work? These questions should be answered also by Indian authorities within the very next future.
Peter Schoor, Februar 2010
• Vivek Raghuvanshi says:
April 5, 2010 at 7:37 am
Now the Million Dollar Question is:
Which one of the terrorist / insurgent / extremist groups will attempt their 10 minutes to FAME.
Of course any one of the groups can SUBCONTRACT the HIT.
And if the terrorist / insurgent / extremist group is smart and does not take credit and uses Deception for the HIT, who are we really searching for?
Religious Ideology + Political Ideology + Individual Ideology
Can you feel the rush of adrenaline!
I will still call it Low Probability x High Impact.
• Vivek Raghuvanshi says:
April 9, 2010 at 7:29 am
Can terrorists / insurgents get access to radio active material?
http://www.hindustantimes.com/newdelhi/ ... 29173.aspx
Scrap dealer exposed to radioactive material critical
Impact on Commonwealth? –
Where to buy radioactive material in India?
Answer = Scrap dealer
• Vivek Raghuvanshi says:
April 10, 2010 at 4:31 am
Terrorist / Insurgent agenda for Commonwealth games is just a very small cog in the wheel.
The larger issue is terrorists / insurgents want to disrupt Foreign Investment in India.
So, where does terrorist / insurgent strike:
“Where you LEAST expect them to”
http://corporaterisks.info/blog/?p=57
………………………………………As a corollary, insurgents deny all information of themselves to Special Forces who are enveloped in an impenetrable fog.
The Special Forces stand on an lighted stage and from the darkness around them thousands of unseen eyes intently study Special Forces every move, every gesture.
Terrorists / Insurgents have Reconnaissance capability!
——————————————————————————
• Vivek Raghuvanshi says:
April 11, 2010 at 5:49 am
Stanton Alleyne
===============
Anything is possible!
Keeping in mind security risk management stretgies, the initial layer should provide protection in conjunction with the above i.e. checking backgrounds of both volunteers and personnel.
The “improved” terrorist strategy is a 3-4-5 punch as opposed to a 1-2 punch meaning that the if the initial paln fails, a secondary one is an immediate follow-up, then another, and another.
As in 9/11 playbook, there were 2 hits to a building complex, then one to Pentagon, then another that failed in Pennsylvania keeping in mind that the Twin Towers was hit some years earlier!
Chance favours the prepared mind.
• Vivek Raghuvanshi says:
April 11, 2010 at 5:50 am
John Dalby
==========
Hi Vivek
A pal of mine handled/controlled the security for the Vancouver Winter Olympìcs recently. If it’s any use to you I can put him in touch with you.
• Vivek Raghuvanshi says:
April 11, 2010 at 5:51 am
Bill Bailey
===========
without a doubt, it is the biggest show in town ( in fact many towns). Too many groups want notoriety. Intelligence is the key which as Staon has said requires the onion skin to have a lot more layers than just security guards checking at gates ( they are a weak point anyway). Unfortunately if you have not infiltrated the likely groups by now, your chances of securing all venues and all paricipants are very low!
• Vivek Raghuvanshi says:
April 11, 2010 at 5:51 am
Mathew Maavak
=============
Can terrorists strike? Yes. But which particular location? Going by history, they would target the Indian contigent foremost before moving on to British, Anzac and maybe Canadian targets. You will have to delineate priority targets as the Jihadis see them. Walk around the venue and imagine yourself to be a terrorists. You’d be surprised to note that you will never get all your bases covered.
All the best.
• Vivek Raghuvanshi says:
April 11, 2010 at 5:52 am
Nick Ortcoski
=============
I was part of the control center for the Sydney Olympic games in year 2000.
I could tell you a lot about many things but the point that you ask the question;
“Can Terrorists / Insurgents Breach Commonwealth Games 2010 Security in India”?
The short answer is “YES”.
No matter how many obstacles you place between the POI & any venue there will always be security leaks that can be taken advantage of…
The best you can do is make as many contingency plans as possible and train your key staffs in these so in the event of an issue arising they can automatically react to their pre determined regimes.
Even when this happens you will need to deal with the “human factor” and react the best you can.
One of the best pieces of advice I picked up is; plan for an emergency evacuation during an opening/closing ceremony to highlight the possible deficiencies in this risk assessment.
Our Olympic stadium contained 110,000 pax guests & approximately 3,000 pax service staff & approximately 1,000 pax security staffs from various agencies.
This is just on the inside & perimeter of the stadium.
All other facilities close by had an undisclosed amount of people present, the public transportation facilities are separate again.
It is an experience that I have learnt an enormous amount from; the largest logistical exercise I’ve ever had the privilege to experience & be a part of!
My personal suggestion is to find the persons that have experienced this previously and learn from there personal experiences.
Good luck & all the best.
• Vivek Raghuvanshi says:
April 11, 2010 at 5:53 am
Rafi Sela
=========
It all come down to the simple equation of security X Response. since response in India is fairly low you have to enhance the security levels.
We have advised most of the large events and the risk gets only higher with time.
I think the spectators and the journalists are more at risk than the players since terror is all about impact.
I can recommend some last minute actions to lower the risk as muc has possible.
Did anyone mention intelligence? this is always the key!!!
Good Luck
Rafi
• Vivek Raghuvanshi says:
April 11, 2010 at 5:53 am
Mathew Maavak
=============
This my advise to you Vivek: Walk the ground, take notes, go back and provide your recommendations to the Commonwealth Committee on security. Forget about expert advise for a moment. Use your intuition.
Good luck again.
• Vivek Raghuvanshi says:
April 11, 2010 at 5:54 am
Rafi Sela
=========
Mathew,
I disagree with you!!!
Take advise from the experts who did it for years and preferably have solid Israeli secirity background. We know how to get things done quickly efficiently and on a very low budget.
• Vivek Raghuvanshi says:
April 11, 2010 at 5:54 am
Mathew Maavak
=============
Actually, we are on the same page. Walking around and taking notes is the best way to form a solid opinion. I don’t believe in high budget exercises. “Experts” sold India some ghastly flak jackets worn by the slain Hemant Karkare.
I have broken into security zones too many times and it did not cost me a penny. My expertise? ahh…that’s a secret.
• Vivek Raghuvanshi says:
April 11, 2010 at 5:55 am
John Dalby
==========
I think Mathew is putting himself down here! I’ll bet he rarely has to “break in” given his expertise and tricks of the trade – and I’ll also bet, like me, he never shares them!!!
I also agree fully with Rafi. You want serious event/location security advice, especially counter-terrorism, you go to the Israeli’s or someone Israeli-trained.
You want maritime security advice, you come to me!! Just kiddin’ (sort of!)
• Vivek Raghuvanshi says:
April 11, 2010 at 5:55 am
Mathew Maavak
=============
If you had read my contentions over electronic strip searches in another thread, you’d find me highlighting Israeli efficacy and cost effectiveness.
I don’t break in to prove something John. It’s a hobby for me:-)
• Vivek Raghuvanshi says:
April 11, 2010 at 5:56 am
John Dalby
==========
Mathew, I’m in Singapore chairing the 1st Annual FPSO Singapore Conference 29 & 30 April (insh’Allah!) and delivering a brief (and non-detailed!) presentation on FPSO Security. I know you’re based in KL, but maybe you’re attending yourself? A chance to meet up?
• Vivek Raghuvanshi says:
April 11, 2010 at 5:57 am
Shane Toppin
============
Having completed the security planning and preparation for many super events (across SE Asia, Australasia and the Middle East), the areas of most vulnerability are the non-competition venues. Most emphasis is placed on the security of competition venues and competitor transport (though in India I would suggest the transport would be HIGH risk also…). Again, recent events in India have shown that accommodation could be the most AT RISK venues during the Commonwealth Games.
• Vivek Raghuvanshi says:
April 11, 2010 at 5:58 am
Cdr Jacob Koottummel
====================
The biggest problem in India is that there are too many vital and vulnerable areas’ to guard and protect. I feel, competition venues will be the last place, the terror planners may consider.
Just analyse the terror pattern!! They have almost stopped attempting VIPs, Military installations and key infrastructures. (This does not mean, they are free from terror, but they have been adequately protected). Terrorists today are looking for maximum news value, impact/damage and kill. Also, they constantly innovate, practice/exercise and remain proactive!!!!
The crowded places – the larger public is at great danger today. The problem is that there are too many targets!!!
The Indian Home Minister appears to be determined to root out this evil. But the issue is at certain decision making level the professionalism seems to be lacking and some other issues like petty politics often comes to the forefront!!
We need to come out of the reactive mindset. To score above the terrorists, a security professional essentially need to look, think and visualise exactly like his adversary. They need to understand the difference between FIGHTING TERROR and POLICING AGAINST CRIMES!!! Security auditing and proofing is a continuous process. But, they often satisfy themselves and pat their own back after placing few CCTVs or placing few guards.
• Vivek Raghuvanshi says:
April 11, 2010 at 5:59 am
Rafi Sela
=========
Cdr Jacob Koottumel
you are on the right track.
If you take the Israeli model you actually train and drill your security forces to deter and prevent terrorist attacks but also at the same time have theright response.
Many countries do not understand the simple equation:
Security X Response = Prepardeness Level
So actually the politicians need to decide on the preparedness level and we need to execute it based on the threats.
I do not want to go into the complete lecture of counterterrorism security 101
• Vivek Raghuvanshi says:
April 11, 2010 at 5:59 am
Mathew Maavak
=============
Attacking a sports event signifying universal brotherhood would be in bad form for the militants. Pakistan would be attending the Commonwealth Games as would a host of other Muslim nations. If attacked, the Indian govt should act in an uncharacteristically drastic manner…by dispatching the Pakistani and other jihadi contagions home. Or better yet, detain them to investigate a suspected abetment of terror.
The general Jihadi view is that India is NO Israel and would therefore swallow every blast in its stride (this may not be accurate but that’s the notion).
If any blast occurs, it would likely be around the perimeter i.e. transport buses, shanty tenements etc.
Below is one out of many devious scenarios:
If a perimeter blast occurs, the centre can be infiltrated by a Jihadi clad in a colonel’s outfit, spewing out typical “fauji” expletives while consigning orders in a peremptory manner. Such feigning sometimes helps.
Once inside, he can blow things up. (This phenomenon only occurs when key security personnel are not identified clearly a day or two before the event. Security personnel should be goaded to double-check credentials no matter who dons the brass ranks. India still suffers from a hirearchy problem)
But then again, after a blast, shell-shocked security personnel might be reduced to sheeple awaiting orders. Again, it boils down to training.
This reminds me of an incident here in Malaysia circa 10 years back when a barking “colonel” spirited out weapons from an army camp (the Al Maunah saga).
However, if the Naxalities are involved, things would get trickier as the games embody the capitalist ethos of Darwinian survival, where, poor means squat!
If gets even trickier if these naxals get logistical and tactical help from Islamic militants. Then, it becomes a very internal problem for India and a major embarrassment as well.
• Vivek Raghuvanshi says:
April 11, 2010 at 6:00 am
Stanton Alleyne
===============
In concurrance with Rafi, drill scenarios and have an emergency action plan that security personnel and volunteers (vetting process) know and can consult!
• Vivek Raghuvanshi says:
April 11, 2010 at 6:01 am
Mathew Maavak
=============
There could be a high impact political fallout though if an act of terror occurs. The BJP could skewer the current govt for its toothlessness in getting David Headley et al extradited and tried in India. After all, this man holds the intelligence keys to many Al Qaeda operations.
But the BJP is toothless themselves but others will not let this chance go by. I doubt external forces will allow Al Qaeda their 10 mins of fame.
• Vivek Raghuvanshi says:
April 11, 2010 at 6:02 am
OUTSOURCING MODEL
Think of the Probability Mathew.
A terrorist / insurgent organization will be dumb enough to take credit for a probable hit.
You know, terrorists / insurgents have become smarter.
Outsourcing cannot be ruled out.
They can float a new organization to take credit for the hit.
It is just a probability.
Maybe everything goes well or maybe it doesn’t.
I was just brainstorming!
• Vivek Raghuvanshi says:
April 11, 2010 at 6:02 am
Yes Mathew,
I remember Kandhar. I was really ashamed to be an Indian then.
Things never change.
Politicians are all the same, swiss bank accounts [oops!!]
• Vivek Raghuvanshi says:
April 11, 2010 at 6:03 am
Stanton Alleyne
===============
I personally believe al Qaeda has no real “power” at this junction while stating that surrogates, unrelated to it can be self supporting/self motivated/self engendering using its ideology to circumvent national interests in their local countries while giving the perception of an all powerful al Qaeda!
It is similar to a lie that has been repeatedly being denounced as false but becaue its ‘energy’ i.e. repeated lies about the initial lie, begins to have a life of its own separate and independant from the initial lie.
No doubt that the fight left in the original membership is still valid and the Zawahiri / bin Laden hydra is hiding but the command and control is like a “drowning man catching at a straw”. This is not to downplay al Qaeda by any means!
Terrorism, as exemplified by al Qaeda (the brand name example) has caught on like a wildfire but vigilence is still the operative keyword and should be.
It should make no difference which group will attack so name assignation is useless! Rely on mitigation, risk management, the vetting process, and emergency action planning.
• Vivek Raghuvanshi says:
April 11, 2010 at 6:03 am
Dear Mathew,
David Headley is just a pawn.
The issue is, why were RAW operators asked by Indian Govt to leave Pakistan.
Why was Govt of India keen to please Pakistan.
I do not want to name the cowards who ordered withdrawal of RAW operators from Pakistan.
Now Mother India can do OSINT. [ Legal & Ethical Collection of Information ].
• Vivek Raghuvanshi says:
April 11, 2010 at 6:04 am
Mathew Maavak
=============
There are two ideas here:
1) If a terror attack occurs, our netas demand not only access to Headley but ALL Gitmo detainees. We need the intel. After all, we are supposed to be buddy buddy in this war on terror. This would be cost-effective.
2) We pay thru our nose to get expensive “expertise” and toys (and commissions for the corrupt).
• Vivek Raghuvanshi says:
April 11, 2010 at 6:04 am
Way back in 2003, I had suggested to RAW and IB and MI about considering Snatch operations.
Snatching terrorists on foreign soil.
But Mother India is the land of Mahatma Gandhi
We never learn what Self Respect is.
Will Cabinet give approval for Snatch Operations?
Will they ever have the moral courage to endorse snatch ops?
• Vivek Raghuvanshi says:
April 11, 2010 at 6:05 am
Mathew Maavak
=============
Vivek,
I am worried that the outsourcing might go to the naxals. The RAW operators were pressured out by the United States. There is still some nostalgia lingering about the Mujahideen-era and Rambo reruns, and Charlie Wilson’s mistresses.
Furthermore, heroin is trickling into India when it should be extirpated in Coalition-controlled Afghanistan.
One more attack, and its time to test a few nukes.
• Vivek Raghuvanshi says:
April 11, 2010 at 6:05 am
One needs to declare a terrorist / insurgent as the Enemy of the Soil
It requires Cabinet approval.
Which Cabinet will think about Mother India?
• Vivek Raghuvanshi says:
April 11, 2010 at 6:06 am
Miguel Pereira Fernandes
========================
My assumption is that there is a high probability of troubles.
It will be a colossus task to run the security operation for the Games and there are always a small hole in the net. With all the domestic threats, radical Islamic terrorism is just another piece of the puzzle. Every potential group will try to score or at least to benefit from the “publicity of terror & chaos”.
To escalate the multiple threats we can’t neglect the possibility of alliances among different groups.
What at task!
• Vivek Raghuvanshi says:
April 11, 2010 at 6:07 am
Mathew Maavak
=============
Vivek, I just want the US to stop all arms and munitions support to Pak. Musharaf was on record in recounting where a good portion of the anti-terror weaponry from the US went. To the western front.
If sanctions are applied to Iran, then why not Pak, the main purveyor of terror in the region?
• Vivek Raghuvanshi says:
April 11, 2010 at 6:08 am
Mathew Maavak
=============
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100405/ap_ ... s_pakistan
Islamist militants attacked a U.S. consulate in northwest Pakistan with car bombs and grenades Monday, killing three people, hours after 41 people died in a suicide attack on a political rally elsewhere in the region
• Vivek Raghuvanshi says:
April 11, 2010 at 6:08 am
Shekhawat Hari Pratap Singh
===========================
It is right according present scenario.
Actually we are lacking in access control.
it should be controlled by experienced & trained security personal with latest technology.
• Vivek Raghuvanshi says:
April 11, 2010 at 6:09 am
Michael Brookes-Jones
=====================
Gentleman,
India is a massive target and an assault on the Games is a perfect opportunity. Can this happen? Absolutely. Will it happen? Who knows. I will say this much, the likelihood of it happening in India than previous venues is a lot higher for a multitude of reasons. Preperation is everything and this all comes at a cost. If the Indian authorites are prepared to listen and learn from the experts and drop their wallet on the table to prevent a terrorist attack, then so be it otherwise the 2010 Commonwealth Games could finish up making Mumbai seem like a drunken fist fight.
• Vivek Raghuvanshi says:
April 11, 2010 at 6:10 am
Rafi Sela
=========
Don’t even speculate the government will fall because of a terror attack. Good politics always has a finger pointing machamizm that goes in circles until it finds a small clerck to fire….
• Vivek Raghuvanshi says:
April 11, 2010 at 6:11 am
Mathew Maavak
=============
Sad but true. There is also an entwining of money interests. But a shrewd strategy can set off a very disturbing concatenation of recriminations. Not likely for India.
Now I must ask you a question Rafi. If this event was held in Israel and an attack occurred, what would the Israeli govt do?
• Vivek Raghuvanshi says:
April 11, 2010 at 6:11 am
Rafi Sela
=========
Israel used to be thesame way as the others 50 years ago…
After many causalties and handicapped citizens the government or better the Knesset (Our parliament) came to the necessary conclusion that you have to let professionals and not politicians run the security of the nation. So the ISA (Israel Security Agency) is the ONLY body who regulates security. No one!!!!! even though ther report to the prime minister’s office can tell them what to do. What thye say is law!!!
So, they have grown to be one of the mosr efficient and well run security organizations in the world.
I can write 100 pages describing how this works but in nut shell the buck of security stops there.
We have since had many people from ISa deliver their know how to other countries. The problem remains with the politcians who have to let go…. I personally believe the media can help.
• Vivek Raghuvanshi says:
April 11, 2010 at 6:12 am
Mathew Maavak
=============
You forgot to mention that is also the most cost effective security superstructure. I am versed well enough with the Israeli method. You are right that the security apparatus should report directly to the Prime Minister and his select and small team. They should be able to speak as men, even offering contrary opinions.
This rarely happens elsewhere.
Hope you had a meaningful Pesach. Forgot to wish you.
• Vivek Raghuvanshi says:
April 11, 2010 at 6:13 am
Cdr Jacob Koottummel
====================
I disagree with fully with most of the ongoing discussions, with exception to few. India is shinning presently, thankx to the excellence in their produce from professional private enterprises, agencies and organizations. The Indian public sector is prime example, how inefficient can a politically controlled or run organizations can be (you need to know their inner working!!). We are also witnessing the aftereffects of politicizing of even defense and intelligence in our neighbourhoods!!
In my view the discussion is purely revolving around speculations and to a certain extent scare-mongering!! This can be even done a street child. As professionals, let us suggest some constructive solutions to overcome these public fears.
I happened to see some of the architectural designs of few ongoing constructions, which are going to be ready only on the eve of the events (as per predictions of few responsible politicians who were sleeping till yesterday). It is a nightmare to secure these places against the threats being discussed. I do not know security considerations has been accounted in any of these plans!!! I will say quite unlikely, as I do not see any use of CPTED, where it could have been incorporated quite easily!!!
Let us look at all angles….starting from intelligence planning. One of the major point our discussions have omitted so far is the background checking of these workers. Interestingly, most of the unskilled workers are cheap migrant labourers from Bangladesh (including some of the uniformed private security guards)!!
Let us not press the Panic Button as others do.
• Vivek Raghuvanshi says:
April 11, 2010 at 6:13 am
Mathew Maavak
=============
That’s precisely what I meant about infiltration earlier, though, the sheer number of migrant Bangladeshi workers boggles the mind. I would dare say that they are in a better position to notice security flaws, way ahead of official security personnel. Long back, the Israelis had planted bombs at dams and other vital infrastructure at Arab construction sites. To be detonated of course in times of war.
Part of the problem with the games were the doubts on whether India could ready the venues on time. Thus, security was placed on the backburner.
Who is coordinating security at the Games anyway?
• Vivek Raghuvanshi says:
April 11, 2010 at 6:14 am
Mathew Maavak
=============
Cdr Jacob,
I have personnally met people who were trying to fobb off “security tools” while I was in Mumbai. The primary consideration was bribe. In fact, their business models were worked around commissions first, and then the goods.
Bribes are paid to IPS and IAS officers and in the end, we get laughable bullet proof jackets for the slain Karkare, among others. Do you think a professional security outfit stands a chance in contributing to India’s defense?
• Vivek Raghuvanshi says:
April 11, 2010 at 6:15 am
Nick Ortcoski
=============
To be sure this is a fine discussion.
The point I would like to make here and now is;
don’t get bogged down in the political side of security.
This will always be there & this is the politicians domain.
My experience tells me that no matter what is decided in the conferences, meetings, bribes & negotiations it comes down to the people on the ground during the event.
Having a well versed key team to take control in the event that an incident does occur is crucial.
Having a team of “experts” discuss security options pre ,during & post events is in my opinion the most important aspect that security personnel should be focusing on.
Agreed that Intel is also crucial but whatever the Intel is the above two core components do not change.
Discussions like this are I believe are very beneficial to identify possible weakness after the core components have been put into action.
Fine tuning can go on till opening day.
• Vivek Raghuvanshi says:
April 11, 2010 at 6:15 am
Cdr Jacob Koottummel
====================
I need to respond to Mathew and Nick….
Mathew
“Who is coordinating security at the Games anyway?” – Why should anyone be interested? My heart felt sympathies with him.
But, I must make a mention on some of the public and other tenders appearing in the name of CWG 2010. It is quite evident that, millions of public money is likely to be wasted in procuring some of the security gadgets and eqpts.
These public tenders are giving clear evidence and indicators to suggest that,the approach as a whole itself is flawed and little is being done to develop an architecture based on Defence-in-Depth or its total integration. A well practiced co-ordinated security strategy, need to be put in place with integrated sensors, co-ordinated data/int gathering, common operational picture and joined Ops or control room analysis – all of which come together to provide a complete threat analysis, decision matrix and the response mechanism.
Even after 26/11, we have still not learning from our mistakes and not considering an integrated security strategy and approach that can take on multi-facet threat scenarios. We have to make the terrorist respond to us, rather than the other way around. Today, the organizers and the security managers are relying on technology as a magic bullet. They are only looking to plug the leak temporarily and not considering the total renewal of the pipe itself!!
If the construction activity is still on, where is the time for installation, testing, integration and proving of entire security gadgetry? When are they going to undertake the trial run, Risk and threat analysis or a security audit?
Nick,
I strongly disagree with Mathew that the entire Indian System is corrupt. Yes, unfortunately in India, corruption is also considered as a fruit of democracy!!
Recently, I ran into a typical situation. In a big organization, there are separate committees for specification, technical evaluation and commercial approval. The “Purchase Committee” was bought over by one OEM and they had beautifully spec’ed for their product for the tender, almost in a proprietary manner. The head of the “Evaluation” committee had his relation working in a competitor company, who wanted to get that product which was not at all suiting to the requirements. Commercial authorities had yet another option. Ultimately, their political Bosses overruled the entire process and thru the backdoor of Single Tender arrangement with a Public Sector got what they (politicians) wanted!! GOT A CHEAP CHINESE PRODUCT AT DOUBLE THE COST OF A QUALITY WESTERN COMPETITION. The latest is that the Public Sector is on the hunt for the fly-by-night vendor (sub-contractor) who sold this item to them and there is no takers for its repairs !!!!
• Vivek Raghuvanshi says:
April 11, 2010 at 6:16 am
Mathew Maavak
=============
This happens everywhere Cdr Jacob. The malaysian scorpene sub purchase was a complete fiasco. The sub at first couldn’t even dive. Can you believe that? The commission worked out to Rs6 billion (approx USD150 million for two subs).
An intelligence matrix needs to be set up to find out where these fly by night operators went. Often, they end up in Southeast Asia. Rajan Chota once had an R&R here.
• Vivek Raghuvanshi says:
April 11, 2010 at 6:17 am
Miguel Pereira Fernandes
=======================
It’s always the same with this kind of events…They will still finishing in Opening Day…
And in a 6 to 8 months period it’s easy to go under and make Recon and to establish a bridgehead. In the middle of thousands of anonymous and cheap labourers it’s a piece of cake…Evolving ALL the Community in different levels of the Security Program it’s one of the aspects. We all should be aware…it’s half of the job.
• Vivek Raghuvanshi says:
April 11, 2010 at 6:17 am
Mathew Maavak
=============
Can’t be helped sometimes. The Italians pretty much finished the venues and infrastructure days before the opening of the 1990 World Cup. There were strikes and what not, but they got the job done ultimately.
• Vivek Raghuvanshi says:
April 11, 2010 at 6:18 am
Mathew,
Pakistanis have asked for Predator.
Pakistanis told the Americans that they will use Predator for Counter Terrorism.
But actually we all know what Pakistanis will do with Predator
This is the reason Americans will not give Pakistanis the Predator.
Let the pakistanis play with other toys, so what they are american toys, BUT NOT PREDATOR..
Stop worrying Mathew. Americans are far more intelligent than you think.
• Vivek Raghuvanshi says:
April 11, 2010 at 6:18 am
Jacob,
FEAR is the Key.
For the terrorists to fear Mother India, we need a strong Counter Terrorism Doctrine.
Now Jacob, which Intelligence officer who heads IB or RAW does not become a Governor in India. The one who works for motherland.
Why does the political machinery interfere ie offer post retirement sops if you tow the line.
So, if the Intelligence Head only thinks about Mother India, he does not get to become a Governor or lets say a Ambassador.
We are not creating panic here. In Democracy, we cannot behave like ostrich!
So Mother India’s counter terrorism doctrine is diluted by politicians.
Politicians who offer INCENTIVE to IB & RAW Chiefs ie carrots ie post retirement benefits. Being a Governor or Ambassador is not really that bad Jacob.
Everybody thinks about own self interest and mother India is a vote bank.
Che Guevara was so right about how a Nation transforms over time from being a lover to a wife to becoming a prostitute.
WARGAMING
Can Terrorists / Insurgents Breach Commonwealth Games 2010 Security in India?
http://corporaterisks.info/blog/?p=289
There are 23 competitive venues, 40 training venues and International Broadcasting Centre.
There are 36 functional areas for which Volunteers will be hired and trained.
Each volunteer application will be screened by the Police. But does Police verification really screen anything beside antecedent verification?
There is a Low Probability x High Impact scenario where the terrorists / Insurgents may breach Commonwealth Games 2010 security wearing FAKE uniforms, they could be uniforms like:
1. Volunteer uniforms given to Commonwealth Games 2010 volunteers
2. Para Military uniforms
3. Rapid Action Force uniforms,
4. Police uniforms
How easy is it in India to counterfeit pharmaceutical drugs, leading fashion brands apparel logos and brand accessories, identity cards etc., the less said the better.
Can the Commonwealth Games 2010 Volunteer uniforms consisting of polo tops, tracks, T shirts, cap and shoes not be counterfeited by terrorists / insurgents.
Although Hologram is the most effective way to prevent counterfeiting, but in India where terrorists / insurgents use fake currency, how difficult will it be for them to counterfeit holograms? Are all athletes participating in the Commonwealth Games 2010 at New Delhi, supposed experts that they will be able to detect fake identity cards?
Who are the Volunteers for Commonwealth Games 2010?
They are mostly students, working executives and retired people.
What is the incentive for volunteers, except the hype of serving the motherland?
For Volunteers at Commonwealth Games 2010, it will be a place to network with foreigners and maybe network and find a job somewhere.
What prevents terrorists / insurgents from using MICE and 6 Degrees of Separation tactics to glean subtle intelligence on the movement of athletes.
What stops terrorists from cultivating hotel staff, vehicle drivers, private security experts or the state of the art Volunteers at the Commonwealth Games 2010?
How will athletes recognize anybody at all when they are on sightseeing mode at Delhi, India. Will they trust people because they are wearing law enforcement uniforms or volunteer uniforms?
What is the probability that terrorists will not be able to counterfeit law enforcement identity cards or uniforms?
Are 5 star hotels really safe in India as they are made out to be by the supposed security experts?
Are shopping malls really safe as the security experts claim that they are?
Are metros safe? If so, how can collateral damage be avoided in case the terrorists breach it.
Just by talking about disaster management and emergency management and risk management, can the terrorist / insurgent be really stopped? Just by hiring law enforcement security experts or private security vendors, can the terrorists be really stopped?
It is the worst nightmare? I will call it a Low Probability x Hight Impact scenario.
Maybe everything goes well, but WHAT IF?
Who can you really trust?
• Vivek Raghuvanshi says:
April 5, 2010 at 6:57 am
TERRORIST / INSURGENT / EXTREMIST ORGANISATIONS OPERATING IN INDIA
• United Liberation Front of Asom (ULFA)
• National Democratic Front of Bodoland (NDFB)
• United People’s Democratic Solidarity (UPDS)
• Kamtapur Liberation Organisation (KLO)
• Bodo Liberation Tiger Force (BLTF)
• Dima Halim Daogah (DHD)
• Karbi National Volunteers (KNV)
• Rabha National Security Force (RNSF)
• Koch-Rajbongshi Liberation Organisation (KRLO)
• Hmar People’s Convention- Democracy (HPC-D)
• Karbi People’s Front (KPF)
• Tiwa National Revolutionary Force (TNRF)
• Bircha Commando Force (BCF)
• Bengali Tiger Force (BTF)
• Adivasi Security Force (ASF)
• All Assam Adivasi Suraksha Samiti (AAASS)
• Gorkha Tiger Force (GTF)
• Barak Valley Youth Liberation Front (BVYLF)
• Muslim United Liberation Tigers of Assam (MULTA)
• United Liberation Front of Barak Valley
• Muslim United Liberation Front of Assam (MULFA)
• Muslim Security Council of Assam (MSCA)
• United Liberation Militia of Assam (ULMA)
• Islamic Liberation Army of Assam (ILAA)
• Muslim Volunteer Force (MVF)
• Muslim Liberation Army (MLA)
• Muslim Security Force (MSF)
• Islamic Sevak Sangh (ISS)
• Islamic United Reformation Protest of India (IURPI)
• United Muslim Liberation Front of Assam (UMLFA)
• Revolutionary Muslim Commandos (RMC)
• Muslim Tiger Force (MTF)
• People’s United Liberation Front (PULF)
• Adam Sena (AS)
• Harkat-ul-Mujahideen
• Harkat-ul-Jehad
• Lashkar-e-Omar (LeO)
• Hizb-ul-Mujahideen (HM)
• Harkat-ul-Ansar (HuA, presently known as Harkat-ul Mujahideen)
• Lashkar-e-Toiba (LeT)
• Jaish-e-Mohammed (JeM)
• Harkat-ul Mujahideen (HuM, previously known as Harkat-ul-Ansar)
• Al Badr
• Jamait-ul-Mujahideen (JuM)
• Lashkar-e-Jabbar (LeJ)
• Harkat-ul-Jehad-i-Islami
• Al Barq
• Tehrik-ul-Mujahideen
• Al Jehad
• Jammu & Kashir National Liberation Army
• People’s League
• Muslim Janbaz Force
• Kashmir Jehad Force
• Al Jehad Force (combines Muslim Janbaz Force and Kashmir Jehad Force)
• Al Umar Mujahideen
• Mahaz-e-Azadi
• Islami Jamaat-e-Tulba
• Jammu & Kashmir Students Liberation Front
• Ikhwan-ul-Mujahideen
• Islamic Students League
• Tehrik-e-Hurriat-e-Kashmir
• Tehrik-e-Nifaz-e-Fiqar Jafaria
• Al Mustafa Liberation Fighters
• Tehrik-e-Jehad-e-Islami
• Muslim Mujahideen
• Al Mujahid Force
• Tehrik-e-Jehad
• Islami Inquilabi Mahaz
• Mutahida Jehad Council (MJC)
• Jammu & Kashmir Liberation Front (JKLF)
• All Parties Hurriyat Conference (APHC)
• Dukhtaran-e-Millat (DeM)
• United National Liberation Front (UNLF)
• People’s Liberation Army (PLA)
• People’s Revolutionary Party of Kangleipak (PREPAK)
• Manipur People’s Liberation Front (MPLF)
• Kangleipak Communist Party (KCP)
• Kanglei Yawol Kanna Lup (KYKL)
• Manipur Liberation Tiger Army (MLTA)
• Iripak Kanba Lup (IKL)
• People’s Republican Army (PRA)
• Kangleipak Kanba Kanglup (KKK)
• Kangleipak Liberation Organisation (KLO)
• Revolutionary Joint Committee (RJC)
• National Socialist Council of Nagaland — Isak-Muivah (NSCN-IM)
• People’s United Liberation Front (PULF)
• North East Minority Front (NEMF)
• Islamic National Front (INF)
• Islamic Revolutionary Front (IRF)
• United Islamic Liberation Army (UILA)
• United Islamic Revolutionary Army (UIRA)
• Kuki National Front (KNF)
• Kuki National Army (KNA)
• Kuki Revolutionary Army (KRA)
• Kuki National Organisation (KNO)
• Kuki Independent Army (KIA)
• Kuki Defence Force (KDF)
• Kuki International Force (KIF)
• Kuki National Volunteers (KNV)
• Kuki Liberation Front (KLF)
• Kuki Security Force (KSF)
• Kuki Liberation Army (KLA)
• Kuki Revolutionary Front (KRF)
• United Kuki Liberation Front (UKLF)
• Hmar People’s Convention (HPC)
• Hmar People’s Convention- Democracy (HPC-D)
• Hmar Revolutionary Front (HRF)
• Zomi Revolutionary Army (ZRA)
• Zomi Revolutionary Volunteers (ZRV)
• Indigenous People’s Revolutionary Alliance(IRPA)
• Kom Rem People’s Convention (KRPC)
• Chin Kuki Revolutionary Front (CKRF)
• Hynniewtrep National Liberation Council (HNLC)
• Achik National Volunteer Council (ANVC)
• People’s Liberation Front of Meghalaya (PLF-M)
• Hajong United Liberation Army (HULA)
• National Socialist Council of Nagaland (Isak-Muivah) – NSCN(IM)
• National Socialist Council of Nagaland (Khaplang) – NSCN (K)
• Naga National Council (Adino) – NNC (Adino)
• Babbar Khalsa International (BKI)
• Khalistan Zindabad Force (KZF)
• International Sikh Youth Federation (ISYF)
• Khalistan Commando Force (KCF)
• All-India Sikh Students Federation (AISSF)
• Bhindrawala Tigers Force of Khalistan (BTFK)
• Khalistan Liberation Army (KLA)
• Khalistan Liberation Front (KLF)
• Khalistan Armed Force (KAF)
• Dashmesh Regiment
• Khalistan Liberation Organisation (KLO)
• Khalistan National Army (KNA)
• National Liberation Front of Tripura (NLFT)
• All Tripura Tiger Force (ATTF)
• Tripura Liberation Organisation Front (TLOF)
• United Bengali Liberation Front (UBLF)
• Tripura Tribal Volunteer Force (TTVF)
• Tripura Armed Tribal Commando Force (TATCF)
• Tripura Tribal Democratic Force (TTDF)
• Tripura Tribal Youth Force (TTYF)
• Tripura Liberation Force (TLF)
• Tripura Defence Force (TDF)
• All Tripura Volunteer Force (ATVF)
• Tribal Commando Force (TCF)
• Tripura Tribal Youth Force (TTYF)
• All Tripura Bharat Suraksha Force (ATBSF)
• Tripura Tribal Action Committee Force (TTACF)
• Socialist Democratic Front of Tripura (SDFT)
• All Tripura National Force (ATNF)
• Tripura Tribal Sengkrak Force (TTSF)
• Tiger Commando Force (TCF)
• Tripura Mukti Police (TMP)
• Tripura Rajya Raksha Bahini (TRRB)
• Tripura State Volunteers (TSV)
• Tripura National Democratic Tribal Force (TNDTF)
• National Militia of Tripura (NMT)
• All Tripura Bengali Regiment (ATBR)
• Bangla Mukti Sena (BMS)
• All Tripura Liberation Organisation (ATLO)
• Tripura National Army (TNA)
• Tripura State Volunteers (TSV)
• Borok National Council of Tripura (BNCT)
• Bru National Liberation Front
• Hmar People’s Convention- Democracy (HPC-D)
• Arunachal Dragon Force (ADF)
• Maoist
• People’s War Group
• People’s Guerrilla Army
• Naxalites
• Tamil National Retrieval Troops (TNRT)
• Akhil Bharat Nepali Ekta Samaj (ABNES)
• Tamil Nadu Liberation Army (TNLA)
• Deendar Anjuman
• Students Islamic Movement of India (SIMI)
• Asif Reza Commando Force
• Liberation Tigers of Tamil Eelam (LTTE)
• Kamatapur Liberation Organisation (KLO)
• Ranvir Sena
• Vivek Raghuvanshi says:
April 5, 2010 at 7:00 am
Al Qaeda Threat in India – By PETER SCHOOR
http://corporaterisks.info/blog/?p=201
The global terrorism practiced by al-Qaeda has no easily recognizable targets – the Danish embassy in Pakistan, a nightclub in Bali, suburban trains in London and Madrid, a synagogue in Tunisia, a Sauerland – Cell in Germany. This affects not only public order and citizen of a country but also companies, agencies and organizations that send employees into crisis areas or also economically active at such places.
The violence is directed against targets with high symbolic content, such as religious places, monuments, commercial and banking centers, police and military facilities or government and parliament buildings. Also, an increase of attacks on soft targets such as public transport, restaurants, cafes, nightclubs or marketplaces is observed. As another strategic motive of terrorist activities and rising are the acquisition and mobilization of sympathizers and supporters, as well as the radicalization of politically related movements.
It must be made clear that today anyone can be taken in principle, any person in any place at any time.
Due to the current generation change in its leadership structure, the re-increasing terrorist organization al-Qaeda becomes more frequent access onto young violent Muslims. Such people plan and organize their activities largely independently. It must be expected that there will be soon greater attacks with more victims. The relative high proportion of young poeple who are traveling into Pakistan or several regions in Africa to be trained at terror camps must be seen as clear warning signs.
Al-Qaeda has not been defeated by military action or has been weakened in its capacity to act danger. There is no clear determination of the terror network or proofed evidence about its executive Organization. The leadership of the group remains still active and at large. Al-Qaeda has managed to turn Iraq into a global model for terrorism and insurgency, has successfully shifted from Iraq to Afghanistan and Western Pakistan and gained strength in North Africa, also in Somalia and Yemen. Also, al-Qaeda has managed to inspire radical young Muslims continue their engagement. The use of suicide bombers still remains their most effective weapon.
Is the organization stronger today than nine years ago and now also a potential threat for India?
Yes, in any case. They are highly motivated and stable while distributing their ideology and messages using among other publishing media the Internet, Twitter and Facebook. Muslims in all countries of the world – also in India – are called up to organize themselves and join the fight of the radical Islamic terrorism. It is not yet managed to find an answer to the question of how combat this high motivation. Al-Qaeda could, either directly or with the help of its allies, repeat the attacks of 11 September 2001 at any time – even with greater effect and extent.
The renewal of al-Qaeda shows that they also use their means to secure their own economic base. This comes along with a wide range of criminal activities depending not primarily to political objectives but serve the procurement of their cash flow. The methods already became forms of organized crime. They range from smuggling, production and distribution of counterfeit currency up to drug trafficking. The most particularly evident can be seen by the example of Afghanistan, which handles meanwhile up to 80% of the world opium market. Taliban and al-Qaida thus have installed a lucrative financial business at place to meet their own needs.
Meanwhile, India is playing an important role in this cycle also. The country increasingly became a hub for the logistical support of terrorist networks within the Asian region. A special feature is the structuring of transit routes on the north-south or east-west axis by al-Qaeda supporters. Here, the transport of personnel, weapons, money, explosives and other material by car, bus or train is going to be organized.
The current strategy of the “global war on terror” is largely based on operational defense, i.e., “killing, trapping, and thwarting attacks. Groups like al-Qaeda can quickly recover from such activities, compensate their human and material losses – and fight back.
Through improved intelligence work and better operational capacities it is possible to attack supporters as well as terrorist groups in their infrastructure. If this ultimately resolves the problem remains questionable.
That biggest obstacle in the fight against terrorism is that no authority and no state are able to be prepared for all scenarios. The question remains, what can be addressed to the future handling this potential hazard. How should the strategic thinking be focused? What must be designed in view of the educational profile of this entirely new form of threat? What competencies must be present? How big is the difference between theory and practice in their daily work? These questions should be answered also by Indian authorities within the very next future.
Peter Schoor, Februar 2010
• Vivek Raghuvanshi says:
April 5, 2010 at 7:37 am
Now the Million Dollar Question is:
Which one of the terrorist / insurgent / extremist groups will attempt their 10 minutes to FAME.
Of course any one of the groups can SUBCONTRACT the HIT.
And if the terrorist / insurgent / extremist group is smart and does not take credit and uses Deception for the HIT, who are we really searching for?
Religious Ideology + Political Ideology + Individual Ideology
Can you feel the rush of adrenaline!
I will still call it Low Probability x High Impact.
• Vivek Raghuvanshi says:
April 9, 2010 at 7:29 am
Can terrorists / insurgents get access to radio active material?
http://www.hindustantimes.com/newdelhi/ ... 29173.aspx
Scrap dealer exposed to radioactive material critical
Impact on Commonwealth? –
Where to buy radioactive material in India?
Answer = Scrap dealer
• Vivek Raghuvanshi says:
April 10, 2010 at 4:31 am
Terrorist / Insurgent agenda for Commonwealth games is just a very small cog in the wheel.
The larger issue is terrorists / insurgents want to disrupt Foreign Investment in India.
So, where does terrorist / insurgent strike:
“Where you LEAST expect them to”
http://corporaterisks.info/blog/?p=57
………………………………………As a corollary, insurgents deny all information of themselves to Special Forces who are enveloped in an impenetrable fog.
The Special Forces stand on an lighted stage and from the darkness around them thousands of unseen eyes intently study Special Forces every move, every gesture.
Terrorists / Insurgents have Reconnaissance capability!
——————————————————————————
• Vivek Raghuvanshi says:
April 11, 2010 at 5:49 am
Stanton Alleyne
===============
Anything is possible!
Keeping in mind security risk management stretgies, the initial layer should provide protection in conjunction with the above i.e. checking backgrounds of both volunteers and personnel.
The “improved” terrorist strategy is a 3-4-5 punch as opposed to a 1-2 punch meaning that the if the initial paln fails, a secondary one is an immediate follow-up, then another, and another.
As in 9/11 playbook, there were 2 hits to a building complex, then one to Pentagon, then another that failed in Pennsylvania keeping in mind that the Twin Towers was hit some years earlier!
Chance favours the prepared mind.
• Vivek Raghuvanshi says:
April 11, 2010 at 5:50 am
John Dalby
==========
Hi Vivek
A pal of mine handled/controlled the security for the Vancouver Winter Olympìcs recently. If it’s any use to you I can put him in touch with you.
• Vivek Raghuvanshi says:
April 11, 2010 at 5:51 am
Bill Bailey
===========
without a doubt, it is the biggest show in town ( in fact many towns). Too many groups want notoriety. Intelligence is the key which as Staon has said requires the onion skin to have a lot more layers than just security guards checking at gates ( they are a weak point anyway). Unfortunately if you have not infiltrated the likely groups by now, your chances of securing all venues and all paricipants are very low!
• Vivek Raghuvanshi says:
April 11, 2010 at 5:51 am
Mathew Maavak
=============
Can terrorists strike? Yes. But which particular location? Going by history, they would target the Indian contigent foremost before moving on to British, Anzac and maybe Canadian targets. You will have to delineate priority targets as the Jihadis see them. Walk around the venue and imagine yourself to be a terrorists. You’d be surprised to note that you will never get all your bases covered.
All the best.
• Vivek Raghuvanshi says:
April 11, 2010 at 5:52 am
Nick Ortcoski
=============
I was part of the control center for the Sydney Olympic games in year 2000.
I could tell you a lot about many things but the point that you ask the question;
“Can Terrorists / Insurgents Breach Commonwealth Games 2010 Security in India”?
The short answer is “YES”.
No matter how many obstacles you place between the POI & any venue there will always be security leaks that can be taken advantage of…
The best you can do is make as many contingency plans as possible and train your key staffs in these so in the event of an issue arising they can automatically react to their pre determined regimes.
Even when this happens you will need to deal with the “human factor” and react the best you can.
One of the best pieces of advice I picked up is; plan for an emergency evacuation during an opening/closing ceremony to highlight the possible deficiencies in this risk assessment.
Our Olympic stadium contained 110,000 pax guests & approximately 3,000 pax service staff & approximately 1,000 pax security staffs from various agencies.
This is just on the inside & perimeter of the stadium.
All other facilities close by had an undisclosed amount of people present, the public transportation facilities are separate again.
It is an experience that I have learnt an enormous amount from; the largest logistical exercise I’ve ever had the privilege to experience & be a part of!
My personal suggestion is to find the persons that have experienced this previously and learn from there personal experiences.
Good luck & all the best.
• Vivek Raghuvanshi says:
April 11, 2010 at 5:53 am
Rafi Sela
=========
It all come down to the simple equation of security X Response. since response in India is fairly low you have to enhance the security levels.
We have advised most of the large events and the risk gets only higher with time.
I think the spectators and the journalists are more at risk than the players since terror is all about impact.
I can recommend some last minute actions to lower the risk as muc has possible.
Did anyone mention intelligence? this is always the key!!!
Good Luck
Rafi
• Vivek Raghuvanshi says:
April 11, 2010 at 5:53 am
Mathew Maavak
=============
This my advise to you Vivek: Walk the ground, take notes, go back and provide your recommendations to the Commonwealth Committee on security. Forget about expert advise for a moment. Use your intuition.
Good luck again.
• Vivek Raghuvanshi says:
April 11, 2010 at 5:54 am
Rafi Sela
=========
Mathew,
I disagree with you!!!
Take advise from the experts who did it for years and preferably have solid Israeli secirity background. We know how to get things done quickly efficiently and on a very low budget.
• Vivek Raghuvanshi says:
April 11, 2010 at 5:54 am
Mathew Maavak
=============
Actually, we are on the same page. Walking around and taking notes is the best way to form a solid opinion. I don’t believe in high budget exercises. “Experts” sold India some ghastly flak jackets worn by the slain Hemant Karkare.
I have broken into security zones too many times and it did not cost me a penny. My expertise? ahh…that’s a secret.
• Vivek Raghuvanshi says:
April 11, 2010 at 5:55 am
John Dalby
==========
I think Mathew is putting himself down here! I’ll bet he rarely has to “break in” given his expertise and tricks of the trade – and I’ll also bet, like me, he never shares them!!!
I also agree fully with Rafi. You want serious event/location security advice, especially counter-terrorism, you go to the Israeli’s or someone Israeli-trained.
You want maritime security advice, you come to me!! Just kiddin’ (sort of!)
• Vivek Raghuvanshi says:
April 11, 2010 at 5:55 am
Mathew Maavak
=============
If you had read my contentions over electronic strip searches in another thread, you’d find me highlighting Israeli efficacy and cost effectiveness.
I don’t break in to prove something John. It’s a hobby for me:-)
• Vivek Raghuvanshi says:
April 11, 2010 at 5:56 am
John Dalby
==========
Mathew, I’m in Singapore chairing the 1st Annual FPSO Singapore Conference 29 & 30 April (insh’Allah!) and delivering a brief (and non-detailed!) presentation on FPSO Security. I know you’re based in KL, but maybe you’re attending yourself? A chance to meet up?
• Vivek Raghuvanshi says:
April 11, 2010 at 5:57 am
Shane Toppin
============
Having completed the security planning and preparation for many super events (across SE Asia, Australasia and the Middle East), the areas of most vulnerability are the non-competition venues. Most emphasis is placed on the security of competition venues and competitor transport (though in India I would suggest the transport would be HIGH risk also…). Again, recent events in India have shown that accommodation could be the most AT RISK venues during the Commonwealth Games.
• Vivek Raghuvanshi says:
April 11, 2010 at 5:58 am
Cdr Jacob Koottummel
====================
The biggest problem in India is that there are too many vital and vulnerable areas’ to guard and protect. I feel, competition venues will be the last place, the terror planners may consider.
Just analyse the terror pattern!! They have almost stopped attempting VIPs, Military installations and key infrastructures. (This does not mean, they are free from terror, but they have been adequately protected). Terrorists today are looking for maximum news value, impact/damage and kill. Also, they constantly innovate, practice/exercise and remain proactive!!!!
The crowded places – the larger public is at great danger today. The problem is that there are too many targets!!!
The Indian Home Minister appears to be determined to root out this evil. But the issue is at certain decision making level the professionalism seems to be lacking and some other issues like petty politics often comes to the forefront!!
We need to come out of the reactive mindset. To score above the terrorists, a security professional essentially need to look, think and visualise exactly like his adversary. They need to understand the difference between FIGHTING TERROR and POLICING AGAINST CRIMES!!! Security auditing and proofing is a continuous process. But, they often satisfy themselves and pat their own back after placing few CCTVs or placing few guards.
• Vivek Raghuvanshi says:
April 11, 2010 at 5:59 am
Rafi Sela
=========
Cdr Jacob Koottumel
you are on the right track.
If you take the Israeli model you actually train and drill your security forces to deter and prevent terrorist attacks but also at the same time have theright response.
Many countries do not understand the simple equation:
Security X Response = Prepardeness Level
So actually the politicians need to decide on the preparedness level and we need to execute it based on the threats.
I do not want to go into the complete lecture of counterterrorism security 101
• Vivek Raghuvanshi says:
April 11, 2010 at 5:59 am
Mathew Maavak
=============
Attacking a sports event signifying universal brotherhood would be in bad form for the militants. Pakistan would be attending the Commonwealth Games as would a host of other Muslim nations. If attacked, the Indian govt should act in an uncharacteristically drastic manner…by dispatching the Pakistani and other jihadi contagions home. Or better yet, detain them to investigate a suspected abetment of terror.
The general Jihadi view is that India is NO Israel and would therefore swallow every blast in its stride (this may not be accurate but that’s the notion).
If any blast occurs, it would likely be around the perimeter i.e. transport buses, shanty tenements etc.
Below is one out of many devious scenarios:
If a perimeter blast occurs, the centre can be infiltrated by a Jihadi clad in a colonel’s outfit, spewing out typical “fauji” expletives while consigning orders in a peremptory manner. Such feigning sometimes helps.
Once inside, he can blow things up. (This phenomenon only occurs when key security personnel are not identified clearly a day or two before the event. Security personnel should be goaded to double-check credentials no matter who dons the brass ranks. India still suffers from a hirearchy problem)
But then again, after a blast, shell-shocked security personnel might be reduced to sheeple awaiting orders. Again, it boils down to training.
This reminds me of an incident here in Malaysia circa 10 years back when a barking “colonel” spirited out weapons from an army camp (the Al Maunah saga).
However, if the Naxalities are involved, things would get trickier as the games embody the capitalist ethos of Darwinian survival, where, poor means squat!
If gets even trickier if these naxals get logistical and tactical help from Islamic militants. Then, it becomes a very internal problem for India and a major embarrassment as well.
• Vivek Raghuvanshi says:
April 11, 2010 at 6:00 am
Stanton Alleyne
===============
In concurrance with Rafi, drill scenarios and have an emergency action plan that security personnel and volunteers (vetting process) know and can consult!
• Vivek Raghuvanshi says:
April 11, 2010 at 6:01 am
Mathew Maavak
=============
There could be a high impact political fallout though if an act of terror occurs. The BJP could skewer the current govt for its toothlessness in getting David Headley et al extradited and tried in India. After all, this man holds the intelligence keys to many Al Qaeda operations.
But the BJP is toothless themselves but others will not let this chance go by. I doubt external forces will allow Al Qaeda their 10 mins of fame.
• Vivek Raghuvanshi says:
April 11, 2010 at 6:02 am
OUTSOURCING MODEL
Think of the Probability Mathew.
A terrorist / insurgent organization will be dumb enough to take credit for a probable hit.
You know, terrorists / insurgents have become smarter.
Outsourcing cannot be ruled out.
They can float a new organization to take credit for the hit.
It is just a probability.
Maybe everything goes well or maybe it doesn’t.
I was just brainstorming!
• Vivek Raghuvanshi says:
April 11, 2010 at 6:02 am
Yes Mathew,
I remember Kandhar. I was really ashamed to be an Indian then.
Things never change.
Politicians are all the same, swiss bank accounts [oops!!]
• Vivek Raghuvanshi says:
April 11, 2010 at 6:03 am
Stanton Alleyne
===============
I personally believe al Qaeda has no real “power” at this junction while stating that surrogates, unrelated to it can be self supporting/self motivated/self engendering using its ideology to circumvent national interests in their local countries while giving the perception of an all powerful al Qaeda!
It is similar to a lie that has been repeatedly being denounced as false but becaue its ‘energy’ i.e. repeated lies about the initial lie, begins to have a life of its own separate and independant from the initial lie.
No doubt that the fight left in the original membership is still valid and the Zawahiri / bin Laden hydra is hiding but the command and control is like a “drowning man catching at a straw”. This is not to downplay al Qaeda by any means!
Terrorism, as exemplified by al Qaeda (the brand name example) has caught on like a wildfire but vigilence is still the operative keyword and should be.
It should make no difference which group will attack so name assignation is useless! Rely on mitigation, risk management, the vetting process, and emergency action planning.
• Vivek Raghuvanshi says:
April 11, 2010 at 6:03 am
Dear Mathew,
David Headley is just a pawn.
The issue is, why were RAW operators asked by Indian Govt to leave Pakistan.
Why was Govt of India keen to please Pakistan.
I do not want to name the cowards who ordered withdrawal of RAW operators from Pakistan.
Now Mother India can do OSINT. [ Legal & Ethical Collection of Information ].
• Vivek Raghuvanshi says:
April 11, 2010 at 6:04 am
Mathew Maavak
=============
There are two ideas here:
1) If a terror attack occurs, our netas demand not only access to Headley but ALL Gitmo detainees. We need the intel. After all, we are supposed to be buddy buddy in this war on terror. This would be cost-effective.
2) We pay thru our nose to get expensive “expertise” and toys (and commissions for the corrupt).
• Vivek Raghuvanshi says:
April 11, 2010 at 6:04 am
Way back in 2003, I had suggested to RAW and IB and MI about considering Snatch operations.
Snatching terrorists on foreign soil.
But Mother India is the land of Mahatma Gandhi
We never learn what Self Respect is.
Will Cabinet give approval for Snatch Operations?
Will they ever have the moral courage to endorse snatch ops?
• Vivek Raghuvanshi says:
April 11, 2010 at 6:05 am
Mathew Maavak
=============
Vivek,
I am worried that the outsourcing might go to the naxals. The RAW operators were pressured out by the United States. There is still some nostalgia lingering about the Mujahideen-era and Rambo reruns, and Charlie Wilson’s mistresses.
Furthermore, heroin is trickling into India when it should be extirpated in Coalition-controlled Afghanistan.
One more attack, and its time to test a few nukes.
• Vivek Raghuvanshi says:
April 11, 2010 at 6:05 am
One needs to declare a terrorist / insurgent as the Enemy of the Soil
It requires Cabinet approval.
Which Cabinet will think about Mother India?
• Vivek Raghuvanshi says:
April 11, 2010 at 6:06 am
Miguel Pereira Fernandes
========================
My assumption is that there is a high probability of troubles.
It will be a colossus task to run the security operation for the Games and there are always a small hole in the net. With all the domestic threats, radical Islamic terrorism is just another piece of the puzzle. Every potential group will try to score or at least to benefit from the “publicity of terror & chaos”.
To escalate the multiple threats we can’t neglect the possibility of alliances among different groups.
What at task!
• Vivek Raghuvanshi says:
April 11, 2010 at 6:07 am
Mathew Maavak
=============
Vivek, I just want the US to stop all arms and munitions support to Pak. Musharaf was on record in recounting where a good portion of the anti-terror weaponry from the US went. To the western front.
If sanctions are applied to Iran, then why not Pak, the main purveyor of terror in the region?
• Vivek Raghuvanshi says:
April 11, 2010 at 6:08 am
Mathew Maavak
=============
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100405/ap_ ... s_pakistan
Islamist militants attacked a U.S. consulate in northwest Pakistan with car bombs and grenades Monday, killing three people, hours after 41 people died in a suicide attack on a political rally elsewhere in the region
• Vivek Raghuvanshi says:
April 11, 2010 at 6:08 am
Shekhawat Hari Pratap Singh
===========================
It is right according present scenario.
Actually we are lacking in access control.
it should be controlled by experienced & trained security personal with latest technology.
• Vivek Raghuvanshi says:
April 11, 2010 at 6:09 am
Michael Brookes-Jones
=====================
Gentleman,
India is a massive target and an assault on the Games is a perfect opportunity. Can this happen? Absolutely. Will it happen? Who knows. I will say this much, the likelihood of it happening in India than previous venues is a lot higher for a multitude of reasons. Preperation is everything and this all comes at a cost. If the Indian authorites are prepared to listen and learn from the experts and drop their wallet on the table to prevent a terrorist attack, then so be it otherwise the 2010 Commonwealth Games could finish up making Mumbai seem like a drunken fist fight.
• Vivek Raghuvanshi says:
April 11, 2010 at 6:10 am
Rafi Sela
=========
Don’t even speculate the government will fall because of a terror attack. Good politics always has a finger pointing machamizm that goes in circles until it finds a small clerck to fire….
• Vivek Raghuvanshi says:
April 11, 2010 at 6:11 am
Mathew Maavak
=============
Sad but true. There is also an entwining of money interests. But a shrewd strategy can set off a very disturbing concatenation of recriminations. Not likely for India.
Now I must ask you a question Rafi. If this event was held in Israel and an attack occurred, what would the Israeli govt do?
• Vivek Raghuvanshi says:
April 11, 2010 at 6:11 am
Rafi Sela
=========
Israel used to be thesame way as the others 50 years ago…
After many causalties and handicapped citizens the government or better the Knesset (Our parliament) came to the necessary conclusion that you have to let professionals and not politicians run the security of the nation. So the ISA (Israel Security Agency) is the ONLY body who regulates security. No one!!!!! even though ther report to the prime minister’s office can tell them what to do. What thye say is law!!!
So, they have grown to be one of the mosr efficient and well run security organizations in the world.
I can write 100 pages describing how this works but in nut shell the buck of security stops there.
We have since had many people from ISa deliver their know how to other countries. The problem remains with the politcians who have to let go…. I personally believe the media can help.
• Vivek Raghuvanshi says:
April 11, 2010 at 6:12 am
Mathew Maavak
=============
You forgot to mention that is also the most cost effective security superstructure. I am versed well enough with the Israeli method. You are right that the security apparatus should report directly to the Prime Minister and his select and small team. They should be able to speak as men, even offering contrary opinions.
This rarely happens elsewhere.
Hope you had a meaningful Pesach. Forgot to wish you.
• Vivek Raghuvanshi says:
April 11, 2010 at 6:13 am
Cdr Jacob Koottummel
====================
I disagree with fully with most of the ongoing discussions, with exception to few. India is shinning presently, thankx to the excellence in their produce from professional private enterprises, agencies and organizations. The Indian public sector is prime example, how inefficient can a politically controlled or run organizations can be (you need to know their inner working!!). We are also witnessing the aftereffects of politicizing of even defense and intelligence in our neighbourhoods!!
In my view the discussion is purely revolving around speculations and to a certain extent scare-mongering!! This can be even done a street child. As professionals, let us suggest some constructive solutions to overcome these public fears.
I happened to see some of the architectural designs of few ongoing constructions, which are going to be ready only on the eve of the events (as per predictions of few responsible politicians who were sleeping till yesterday). It is a nightmare to secure these places against the threats being discussed. I do not know security considerations has been accounted in any of these plans!!! I will say quite unlikely, as I do not see any use of CPTED, where it could have been incorporated quite easily!!!
Let us look at all angles….starting from intelligence planning. One of the major point our discussions have omitted so far is the background checking of these workers. Interestingly, most of the unskilled workers are cheap migrant labourers from Bangladesh (including some of the uniformed private security guards)!!
Let us not press the Panic Button as others do.
• Vivek Raghuvanshi says:
April 11, 2010 at 6:13 am
Mathew Maavak
=============
That’s precisely what I meant about infiltration earlier, though, the sheer number of migrant Bangladeshi workers boggles the mind. I would dare say that they are in a better position to notice security flaws, way ahead of official security personnel. Long back, the Israelis had planted bombs at dams and other vital infrastructure at Arab construction sites. To be detonated of course in times of war.
Part of the problem with the games were the doubts on whether India could ready the venues on time. Thus, security was placed on the backburner.
Who is coordinating security at the Games anyway?
• Vivek Raghuvanshi says:
April 11, 2010 at 6:14 am
Mathew Maavak
=============
Cdr Jacob,
I have personnally met people who were trying to fobb off “security tools” while I was in Mumbai. The primary consideration was bribe. In fact, their business models were worked around commissions first, and then the goods.
Bribes are paid to IPS and IAS officers and in the end, we get laughable bullet proof jackets for the slain Karkare, among others. Do you think a professional security outfit stands a chance in contributing to India’s defense?
• Vivek Raghuvanshi says:
April 11, 2010 at 6:15 am
Nick Ortcoski
=============
To be sure this is a fine discussion.
The point I would like to make here and now is;
don’t get bogged down in the political side of security.
This will always be there & this is the politicians domain.
My experience tells me that no matter what is decided in the conferences, meetings, bribes & negotiations it comes down to the people on the ground during the event.
Having a well versed key team to take control in the event that an incident does occur is crucial.
Having a team of “experts” discuss security options pre ,during & post events is in my opinion the most important aspect that security personnel should be focusing on.
Agreed that Intel is also crucial but whatever the Intel is the above two core components do not change.
Discussions like this are I believe are very beneficial to identify possible weakness after the core components have been put into action.
Fine tuning can go on till opening day.
• Vivek Raghuvanshi says:
April 11, 2010 at 6:15 am
Cdr Jacob Koottummel
====================
I need to respond to Mathew and Nick….
Mathew
“Who is coordinating security at the Games anyway?” – Why should anyone be interested? My heart felt sympathies with him.
But, I must make a mention on some of the public and other tenders appearing in the name of CWG 2010. It is quite evident that, millions of public money is likely to be wasted in procuring some of the security gadgets and eqpts.
These public tenders are giving clear evidence and indicators to suggest that,the approach as a whole itself is flawed and little is being done to develop an architecture based on Defence-in-Depth or its total integration. A well practiced co-ordinated security strategy, need to be put in place with integrated sensors, co-ordinated data/int gathering, common operational picture and joined Ops or control room analysis – all of which come together to provide a complete threat analysis, decision matrix and the response mechanism.
Even after 26/11, we have still not learning from our mistakes and not considering an integrated security strategy and approach that can take on multi-facet threat scenarios. We have to make the terrorist respond to us, rather than the other way around. Today, the organizers and the security managers are relying on technology as a magic bullet. They are only looking to plug the leak temporarily and not considering the total renewal of the pipe itself!!
If the construction activity is still on, where is the time for installation, testing, integration and proving of entire security gadgetry? When are they going to undertake the trial run, Risk and threat analysis or a security audit?
Nick,
I strongly disagree with Mathew that the entire Indian System is corrupt. Yes, unfortunately in India, corruption is also considered as a fruit of democracy!!
Recently, I ran into a typical situation. In a big organization, there are separate committees for specification, technical evaluation and commercial approval. The “Purchase Committee” was bought over by one OEM and they had beautifully spec’ed for their product for the tender, almost in a proprietary manner. The head of the “Evaluation” committee had his relation working in a competitor company, who wanted to get that product which was not at all suiting to the requirements. Commercial authorities had yet another option. Ultimately, their political Bosses overruled the entire process and thru the backdoor of Single Tender arrangement with a Public Sector got what they (politicians) wanted!! GOT A CHEAP CHINESE PRODUCT AT DOUBLE THE COST OF A QUALITY WESTERN COMPETITION. The latest is that the Public Sector is on the hunt for the fly-by-night vendor (sub-contractor) who sold this item to them and there is no takers for its repairs !!!!
• Vivek Raghuvanshi says:
April 11, 2010 at 6:16 am
Mathew Maavak
=============
This happens everywhere Cdr Jacob. The malaysian scorpene sub purchase was a complete fiasco. The sub at first couldn’t even dive. Can you believe that? The commission worked out to Rs6 billion (approx USD150 million for two subs).
An intelligence matrix needs to be set up to find out where these fly by night operators went. Often, they end up in Southeast Asia. Rajan Chota once had an R&R here.
• Vivek Raghuvanshi says:
April 11, 2010 at 6:17 am
Miguel Pereira Fernandes
=======================
It’s always the same with this kind of events…They will still finishing in Opening Day…
And in a 6 to 8 months period it’s easy to go under and make Recon and to establish a bridgehead. In the middle of thousands of anonymous and cheap labourers it’s a piece of cake…Evolving ALL the Community in different levels of the Security Program it’s one of the aspects. We all should be aware…it’s half of the job.
• Vivek Raghuvanshi says:
April 11, 2010 at 6:17 am
Mathew Maavak
=============
Can’t be helped sometimes. The Italians pretty much finished the venues and infrastructure days before the opening of the 1990 World Cup. There were strikes and what not, but they got the job done ultimately.
• Vivek Raghuvanshi says:
April 11, 2010 at 6:18 am
Mathew,
Pakistanis have asked for Predator.
Pakistanis told the Americans that they will use Predator for Counter Terrorism.
But actually we all know what Pakistanis will do with Predator
This is the reason Americans will not give Pakistanis the Predator.
Let the pakistanis play with other toys, so what they are american toys, BUT NOT PREDATOR..
Stop worrying Mathew. Americans are far more intelligent than you think.
• Vivek Raghuvanshi says:
April 11, 2010 at 6:18 am
Jacob,
FEAR is the Key.
For the terrorists to fear Mother India, we need a strong Counter Terrorism Doctrine.
Now Jacob, which Intelligence officer who heads IB or RAW does not become a Governor in India. The one who works for motherland.
Why does the political machinery interfere ie offer post retirement sops if you tow the line.
So, if the Intelligence Head only thinks about Mother India, he does not get to become a Governor or lets say a Ambassador.
We are not creating panic here. In Democracy, we cannot behave like ostrich!
So Mother India’s counter terrorism doctrine is diluted by politicians.
Politicians who offer INCENTIVE to IB & RAW Chiefs ie carrots ie post retirement benefits. Being a Governor or Ambassador is not really that bad Jacob.
Everybody thinks about own self interest and mother India is a vote bank.
Che Guevara was so right about how a Nation transforms over time from being a lover to a wife to becoming a prostitute.
-
Vivek Raghuvanshi
- BRFite
- Posts: 149
- Joined: 08 Apr 2010 22:50
- Location: Noida, National Capital Region
- Contact:
Re: Issues faced by Commonwealth Games-New Delhi 2010
• Vivek Raghuvanshi says:
April 11, 2010 at 6:19 am
WHAT IF: [ Points to Ponder ].
Which terrorist organisation funds, which terrorist organisation trains them and which terrorist organisation equips them and which terrorist organisation hires Dummies for executing the hit is the question.
P x I
Terrorists will be fools if they take credit. They are smarter now.
I think terrorists are intelligent enough to know that taking credit means the axe.
Any dummy front can take credit.
It is the HP x HI or LP x HI we need to consider here.
• Vivek Raghuvanshi says:
April 11, 2010 at 6:20 am
Cdr Jacob Koottummel [ 4 days ago ]
=====================
Today, i am distressed by yet another breaking news. 74 CRPF personnel killed in a Naxal Ambush today during the course of their duty. Instead of restoring the confidence and support to these affected personnel and families, irresponsible comments like, “we don’t use air power” is made from the Govt side. If they are not enemies’ of the nation, why the government is sending foot soldiers? Does it mean, India has got enough population for supreme sacrifice?
This approach, not even reactive. In dealing with enemies, I have learned only “Swift, Decisive and Punitive” whilst in service. I am not able to understand the new tactics!!!
My heartfelt condolence to all those beleaguered and affected families.
• Vivek Raghuvanshi says:
April 11, 2010 at 6:20 am
Mathew Maavak
=============
Vivek,
When I was a boy at school, some of us non-Muslim kids knew that the Mujahideen-Uncle Sam nexus was bound to backfire. That happened on 9/11. I fear that there might be a repeat of Stupidity 2.0.
There is a verse in the Bible that says: You do not cast your pearls before swines. Otherwise, they will turn around and trample you underfoot.”
An apt description of pacts made right up to 9/11.
I have great respect for American tenacity, intelligence and even their humanity. Norman Borlaugh was sometimes dodging Pakistani bullets when he was helping India achieve the 60s and 70s Green Revolution.
In any case, India has just placed orders for Israeli UAVs in case the Pakistanis clinch the Predator deal down the line.
• Vivek Raghuvanshi says:
April 11, 2010 at 6:21 am
Mathew Maavak
=============
Jacob,
I am all for swift, punitive and very decisive actions. Those soldiers shouldn’t have died. It makes Afghanistan look like a place of minor skirmishes. The pansy “we don’t use air power” cost India many lives during the IPKF fiasco.
• Vivek Raghuvanshi says:
April 11, 2010 at 6:22 am
Raghu Nath Banerjee
===================
Dear All,
I have been following this discussion over the last few days. Lots of What ifs- – - and we all know that there is no end to such brain storming.
Not too late even now to to carry out a review fro threat analysis, CEPTD recommendations for space allocation and traffic / movement flow regulation, int penetration and a thorough Background Check Procedure formulation ( I agree easier said than done with the flotsam of migrant labour and lack of population records – National ID) and implementation of these checks.
I’m still prepared to take on a bet that despite the holes in the net we shall manage to carry it off without any major incidents!!
100 mein se 99 beimaan PHIR BHI Mera Bharat – - – -.
Any one to put the money on the wager?
• Vivek Raghuvanshi says:
April 11, 2010 at 6:23 am
Brother Mathew,
I remember this quote when I attended Chapel every day at Sherwood College, Nainital while growing up.
What really went wrong or lets understand why CRPF were butchered.
They lacked Skill x Drill which is equal to Kill.
Brother Mathew, of course NO direct link can be established to the LEFT parties / Communists in India. Of course how can Mother India establish direct link of Maoists / Naxalites with Communists in India.
Of course Mother India never fantasized / imagined that the radical arm of communists are maoists / naxalites. So difficult for Mother India to join the dots ie fantasize / imagine, lest they be considered schizophrenic.
These IPS and CRPF officers who are on honeymoon should be asked why these men were not trained in counter insurgency ops. Have the Indian police officers NOT been taught or have NOT learnt anything?
1. Where were the scouts [ if they know what scouts are? ].
2. Why there were not 2 – 5 scouts?
3. Why the distance was NOT maintained by the patrol?
4. Why the scouts were not spread out to detect V shape or xyz ambush?
5. Why the patrol was in the Kill zone?
6. Why were the CRPF men NOT trained to fantasize / imagine / perceive ambush scenario?
7. Why the distance between every CRPF man NOT maintained?
8. I feel disgusted by Mother India’s state of the art experts and advisors..
WHY BLAME INTELLIGENCE? This is how mother India passes the buck.
What the insurgents really did was:
1. They had scouts
2. The ambush was likely to be V shape.
3. The cut – offs were in place.
4. Of course how can mother India’s para military forces know what scouts are or what cut – off are.
5. There definitely must have been secondary cut – offs as well.
Maybe Mother India may like me to train their state of the art IPS officers for FREE, which I shall do gladly but the arrogance of these IPS officers and bureaucrats to fantasize and imagine that by virtue of serving in the Government they are security experts.
Hunting terrorists / insurgents is like hunting wild game.
Approx 80 CRPF men who died, each one of them should have kept a distance of 500 metres each and why in the dickens do you have to walk in a vertical column [ left right left ], but of course our state of the art mother India’s serving security experts forgot to train our para military forces how ambush can be broken or how we can set ambush.
The selection for counter terrorism / counter insurgency ops teams requires to be looked into.
Drill x Skill = Kill
• Vivek Raghuvanshi says:
April 11, 2010 at 6:23 am
Mathew Maavak
=============
Vivek,. Agree with all of the above. But I think a V-shaped attack formation is not suitable for that terrain, unless these guys walked into an open ground or a clearing. But I may be wrong.
In order to clear the chaff at the IPS level, you need a concerted and unremmiting media campaign. Only then would you be able to institute a professional counter-insurgency force.
• Vivek Raghuvanshi says:
April 11, 2010 at 6:24 am
Raghu Nath Banerjee
===================
The company had been split into two teams and had gone “jungle Bashing” for 3 days on a report of an Training Camp of the Guerrillas. bvioulsy they did not have the physical and mental stamina to carry out an operation of this nature over prolonged duration and had thrown all caution to the winds after a futile and demoralizing operation
There is an old saying that when an alien force like this moves through insurgency prone rural / jungle terrain-n they do so like a herd pf elephants – yo can hear them from miles away; you also see their trail clearly; while the guerrilla moves like a tiger stalking its prey- trailing the kill and stalking it while it silently creeps upon the prey.As per CRPF version- it was a road opening patrol—- what an irony that it did not secure and open its own return path!!
Who would assume the blame? Was someone responsible for evolving correct training strategy and objectives prior to induction? Was someone responsible to ensure that drills and skills learnt in trianing are rehearsed and practiced on ground? Was operation to be personally led and coordinated by the pot bellied Police Brass or not? Who would answer the widows and the orphans of those killed?
The ambush was a classic one set up on the returning patrol. The convey was led by an armored Protection vehicle that was the first one to be blown up. Obviously the guerrillas knew the characteristics of the soft underbelly and had accurate intelligence, while the Police had none. The IEDs/ Mines were ready and the classic ambush (with a difference of the strength that was employed to spring it) was in position in advance. Nothing new – yet every time the Naxals are managing to concentrate large numbers at the point of decision unobserved. Hence the intelligence network has to be built up FIRST.
Would some heads worth the weight of the caps roll? Would at long last lessons be carried home?
• Vivek Raghuvanshi says:
April 11, 2010 at 6:25 am
Mathew,
By V shape, I mean the cut-off was at the V intersection.
Ambush was on both sides, converging at the first cut-off where it converges.
The CRPF men were caught from both sides, there definitely were more primary cut-offs and secondary cut-offs in place.
Maybe the Ambush zone was a 1 KM long, but you can always foil an ambush if your scouts are smart and the unit trained in counter evasive maneuvers.
1 – 1 – 1 – 1 – 1 – 2 – 2 – 3 – ………………………..
• Vivek Raghuvanshi says:
April 11, 2010 at 6:25 am
Mathew Maavak
=============
A few months back, I followed the ambush unfolding at Gadchiroli. Instead of relief, it was the Naxals who were conducting the mopping up operation. First reports mentioned an ambush and a few cops killed. (In between TV news had the latest Bollywood gossip.) Hours later, there was no relief in sight. I would have thought that a helicopter would have been sent. The event lasted three-odd hours but the media itself was clueless.
The location fascinated me too. Edge of maharashtra, and bordering Andhra and Chhatisgarh. Perfect spot for to scramble jurisdiction.
• Vivek Raghuvanshi says:
April 11, 2010 at 6:26 am
Mathew Maavak
=============
I was chagrined to note that the Naxals make good use of the INSAS rifles.
• Vivek Raghuvanshi says:
April 11, 2010 at 6:27 am
Miguel Pereira Fernandes
========================
A key element (as I just said earlier) is to involve ALL levels of Society in an effort to build up the Nations Pride. China Olympics are a good example of that “coordinated involvement” and is natural security reinforcement.
• Vivek Raghuvanshi says:
April 11, 2010 at 6:27 am
Miguel Pereira Fernandes
========================
This is really a Major Discussion….
I’ve already given my opinion at this subject at least in two others groups. But There are one situation that apparently nobody have arise… Bio hazard.
Can be very dramatic and the Security Committee have to think outside the box. We (are not the Committee…) are all focused in “regular/traditional” threats and apparently forgetting that India have an wide spread and very effective Bio Medical Industry for instance… that should be looked as weak point (one of the oles…)
• Vivek Raghuvanshi says:
April 11, 2010 at 6:28 am
Mathew Maavak
=============
That’s a great way to induce economic terror. This will of course have to come from a govt bio-lab. Maybe, a jihadi working at John Hopkins can cook up a nice virus.
• Vivek Raghuvanshi says:
April 11, 2010 at 6:29 am
Miguel Pereira Fernandes
========================
Mathew,
As you now jihadi’s work almost everywhere…I’m not looking to do small talk. I really think that can be (hope not) a serious concern to the Games Security. And you should now that bio hazard don’t need to came from a Gov-Lab. Just need a normal veterinary Lab…
• Vivek Raghuvanshi says:
April 11, 2010 at 6:30 am
Mathew Maavak
=============
Furthermore, few would dare tinkle with biohazards. If Delhi is attacked, why not lace Af-Pak with the same stuff? It could come from a human vector…a militant who crossed over to safe haven.
• Vivek Raghuvanshi says:
April 11, 2010 at 6:30 am
Mathew Maavak
==============
Even a a donkey can be laced with a virus and set across the border, provided that virus is capable of a species leap.
• Vivek Raghuvanshi says:
April 11, 2010 at 6:31 am
Raghu Nath Banerjee
===================
Dear Mathew & Miguel,
Why are we restricting our thinking to use of animals as a potential bio hazard only? They can even be used as a mobile platform for remote controlled explosive device; a la low cost suicide bomber.
We all know of the prevalence of stray dogs, monkeys and cows and other bovine species even near the North & South Blocks at Delhi. How trainable a monkey or a dog or for that matter an eagle or a kite is needs no elaboration. A dog was seen running across the pitch in one of the international cricket matches recently.
There are no end to possibilities. What are our layers and their levels of permeability and also whether they have been tested for realistic red teaming exercises are the vital questions.
At the end of the day- no security would ever be 100% fool proof. Someone has to take a call of accepting a certain level of risk. All about of P X I and cost of Security (Financial, Psychological and Hindrance / Inconvenience / Delay / Image related costs considered holistically).
• Vivek Raghuvanshi says:
April 11, 2010 at 6:32 am
Mathew Maavak
=============
It can even be borne by a festive balloon Raghu Nath. There is no end to possibilities. I agree with red teaming. How often is it done?
• Vivek Raghuvanshi says:
April 11, 2010 at 6:32 am
Miguel Pereira Fernandes
========================
Now you people understand my concerns… a mobile platform (likely to be an human vector) to spread bio hazard in a environment of World Media attention. In an country like India (with is major lab facilities) they really do have to care too much about searching for an deadly agent. Biological (or chemical) weapons hare widely spread and they’ve got two advantages: stealth and low cost.
Terrorists are recruiting everywhere around the globe and there’s always a schmo to do the job. I still remember Aum Shinrikyo in Tokyo (about 20 years ago…).
Like I’ve said earlier we have to think outside the box.
• Vivek Raghuvanshi says:
April 11, 2010 at 6:33 am
Mathew Maavak
==============
Don’t worry Miguel. Terrorists have relatives who can get infected too. Somehow.
• Vivek Raghuvanshi says:
April 11, 2010 at 6:33 am
Mathew,
What is your opinion on the NEXUS between Communist party in India and its Chinese Masters and Maoists and Naxalites insurgency in India.
This question is open for everyone.
Islamic terrorism is we all know which country’s intel agency is responsible.
Maybe Daud Ibrahim [ ISI ] is flying below the radar.
But now Daud Ibrahim [ ISI ] will look over his shoulder everytime in Dubai.
Dubai does not seem to be that safe for terrorists now.
• Vivek Raghuvanshi says:
April 11, 2010 at 6:34 am
Daud Ibrahim has ISI protection
He is the conduit for money laundering for ISI besides funding and organizing terrorists worldwide.
Checkout Daud Ibrahim’s financial investments in Dubai
Money talks and money walks FREE
Daud Ibrahim also funds politicians.
• Vivek Raghuvanshi says:
April 11, 2010 at 6:34 am
Miguel Pereira Fernandes
========================
Maoist insurgency in India it’s the operative part of the greater plan to spread the Red Doctrine fundamentally (non-officially) supported by China via NK. It common knowledge that Naxals representatives do often visit their offices in cities like Bangkok or Beijing and keep in touch with their contacts from Burma, Vietnam, Nepal, or Bangladesh. Pyongyang arms supply’s using Burma networks plays a major role in China’s Ministry of State Security (MSS) hands.
The Indian Communist Party it’s just the official face of the equation despite everything they could say.
• Vivek Raghuvanshi says:
April 11, 2010 at 6:35 am
Mathew Maavak
==============
Pretty good summation Miguel. Burma is a slave of China, and so they will provide sanctuary and help for the Naxals. Nepal is begging for that “freedom” too. Only Vietnam and Indonesia is holding out in SEA.
The Naxal operation has one vital purpose missed out in India’s dreadful media: To disrupt India economically, making sure that China’s economic ascendance is left unrivalled.
• Vivek Raghuvanshi says:
April 11, 2010 at 6:36 am
Mathew Maavak
=============
Of course Dawood Ibrahim has ISI protection. But it is not only the ISI that is protecting him.
• Vivek Raghuvanshi says:
April 11, 2010 at 6:36 am
When Daud Ibrahim funds politicians, but of course they will look the other way.
Poly ticks is a more appropriate word..
• Vivek Raghuvanshi says:
April 11, 2010 at 6:37 am
Miguel Pereira Fernandes
========================
Money talks and money walks FREE that’s the reality. Mrs.Ibrahim is a very interesting character…and according to my knowledge if he wasn’t well covered in Dubai he already …(he.he.he).
The Spring in Dubai can be very scary, the winds from Telaviv are hot!
• Vivek Raghuvanshi says:
April 11, 2010 at 6:37 am
Miguel Pereira Fernandes
========================
Mathew IT ALL ABOUT MONEY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! the human greedy and stupidity is a never ending story.
• Vivek Raghuvanshi says:
April 11, 2010 at 6:38 am
“To every man upon this earth
Death cometh soon or late.
And how can man die better
Than facing fearful odds,
For the ashes of his fathers,
And the temples of his Gods?”
This is dedicated to the bravest of the brave warriors of Israel.
Maybe one day Cabinet and the Indian Parliament of Mother India will learn what bravery is, what valor is, what courage is.
• Vivek Raghuvanshi says:
April 11, 2010 at 6:38 am
Miguel Pereira Fernandes
========================
We can’t forget that Daud Ibrahim is an high value asset to every Intelligence Service…Like Viktor…
• Vivek Raghuvanshi says:
April 11, 2010 at 6:39 am
Mathew Maavak
=============
Mrs Ibrahim is an interesting character? Come, come, my man. Tell us the details.
The Spring in Dubai can be Scary,
On seeing a large backpack, do not tarry,
The winds from Tel Aviv are hot,
‘Tis time to take out the righteous rod.
Cool haiku, no?
• Vivek Raghuvanshi says:
April 11, 2010 at 6:40 am
Mathew Maavak
=============
Viktor, the Ukrainian? I am behind times here.
Et tu Vivek? You into haiku too?
• Vivek Raghuvanshi says:
April 11, 2010 at 6:41 am
Miguel Pereira Fernandes
========================
And turning back in the discussion, the ultimate china’s goal is to stay as the Major economic Player. First in the Region finally in the Planet.
Backing up this in a politic project you’ve got the picture…
• Vivek Raghuvanshi says:
April 11, 2010 at 6:42 am
No Miguel / Mathew,
I am not a poet.
The Mother of all battles was fought at Rezang La at 16000 feet above sea level.
http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/LAND-FORC ... Mohan.html
Ps:
I was raised in the hallowed cradle of the Kumaon Regiment. My father was commissioned in the legendary 4 Kumaon and commanded 4 Kumaon amongst other things. Late Maj Shaitan Singh of the Battle of Rezang La, his son-in-law is my friend.
It was just a very honest heart felt tribute to the Israeli warriors.
• Vivek Raghuvanshi says:
April 11, 2010 at 6:42 am
Mathew Maavak
=============
Appreciate the tribute Vivek and a very interesting snippet of history.
• Vivek Raghuvanshi says:
April 11, 2010 at 6:43 am
Miguel Pereira Fernandes
========================
thank You Vivek, full of Courage!
• Vivek Raghuvanshi says:
April 11, 2010 at 6:44 am
Miguel Pereira Fernandes
========================
This is what Chinese Gov don’t want!
http://www.worldpoliticsreview.com/article.aspx?id=5378
• Vivek Raghuvanshi says:
April 11, 2010 at 6:44 am
http://www.hindustantimes.com/newdelhi/ ... 29173.aspx
Scrap dealer exposed to radioactive material critical
Can terrorists / insurgents get access to radio active material?
Impact on Commonwealth? –
Where to buy radioactive material in India?
Answer = Scrap dealer
• Vivek Raghuvanshi says:
April 11, 2010 at 6:45 am
Miguel Pereira Fernandes
========================
Poor guy, no comments…probably dismantling some medical/radiological device (if it is Cobalt -60…) . That’s a better way to access sensitive material instead of being exposed in an auction…. If you no what I mean…
• Vivek Raghuvanshi says:
April 11, 2010 at 6:45 am
Mathew Maavak
=============
If its Cobalt, then theoretically the bad guys can buy old medical equipment and create a dirty bomb. But this guy suffered radiation burns. That must have been some quantity.
• Vivek Raghuvanshi says:
April 11, 2010 at 6:46 am
Miguel Pereira Fernandes
========================
But is amazing what you can find in garbage isn’t it?
• Vivek Raghuvanshi says:
April 11, 2010 at 6:46 am
http://www.worldpoliticsreview.com/article.aspx?id=5378
“There’s also growing disenchantment in India about America’s efforts to persuade Pakistan to bring the perpetrators of the Mumbai attack to justice”
————————————————————————————————————–
You know Miguel,
Indian Politicians are cowards. Actually this is a compliment for Indian politicians.
What stops the Indian Cabinet from giving clearance to “Snatch operations”
Maybe Daud Ibrahim will get angry and stop funding political parties.
Indian politicians can never stop whining. Clever and devious they are, with their swiss bank accounts.
Indian politicians like to whine.
Indian politicians themselves do not want to take any action but keep blaming United States.
• Vivek Raghuvanshi says:
April 11, 2010 at 6:47 am
Mathew Maavak
=============
Yup. that sums it up. Lack of spine.
• Vivek Raghuvanshi says:
April 11, 2010 at 6:48 am
Miguel Pereira Fernandes
========================
The Mumbai attack was an effort to promote an escalation with PK..may be the starting point of a War…How are the beneficiaries of that type of decisions?
• Vivek Raghuvanshi says:
April 11, 2010 at 6:48 am
We are already at War.
Neither Pakistan and China will ever dare for a High Intensity Conflict.
Chinese and Pakistanis are very wise. They Indulge in Low intensity Conflict. Low Intensity Conflict can be denied.
Glomer denial!
With the Low Intensity Conflict, pakistanis / chinese have over the decades funded and armed and trained more insurgents / terrorists which have resulted in more law enforcement agencies personnel getting killed.
Remember Kargil, it was shown as Low Intensity Conflict on Media.
Mother India has the wrong Advisors. They lack Insight.
They cannot see into the future.
Nobody really cares, the politicians care the least.
• Vivek Raghuvanshi says:
April 11, 2010 at 6:49 am
Miguel Pereira Fernandes
========================
Everybody makes money with a low Intensity Conflict… Capiche?
• Vivek Raghuvanshi says:
April 11, 2010 at 6:49 am
Mathew Maavak
=============
You forget the Dawood Ibrahim angle in 26/11.
• Vivek Raghuvanshi says:
April 11, 2010 at 6:50 am
In 2007, A N Roy, DGP, Maharashtra Police Chief at Mumbai, invited me for dinner, it was attended by ATS and other law enforcement agencies officials.
I told him, I felt ashamed to be a Indian.
He said, we will never let you down.
And when the pakistani funded terrorists hit Mumbai on 26/11 in 2008, the terrorist morons forgot that the legendary Police Chief DGP A N Roy has zero tolerance.
Had those pakistani trained terrorists hit any other city, the coward politicians would have negotiated with terrorists, but DGP A N Roy will never negotiate with terrorists.
DGP A N Roy kept his word.
• Vivek Raghuvanshi says:
April 11, 2010 at 6:51 am
Miguel Pereira Fernandes
========================
Mathew,
Daud Ibrahim is a Major Player and is relations with ISI go back to the early 90’s (at least).
Vivek,
It’s easier to kill an elephant rather a mosquito…Someone like (D.I) must be track for years….have to be patient… stay focused…exactly like hunting…and in the end he can vanish in the woodlands …right before the hit!
• Vivek Raghuvanshi says:
April 11, 2010 at 6:52 am
K C
====
@ Vivek, snatch ops or extraordinary renditions only work if u have no-deal policy when it comes to retributions. The US has such policies wherein it conducts snatches, but doesnt bend over when faced with terrorist-conducted hostage situations.
Unlike India, which:
1) releases high profile terrorists when faced with hijack situations
2) conducts pathetic HRT ops against in-house situations
3) prevents experienced HRT teams from helping Indian forces like the Nov 26 where Israel offered a 90-min takedown, and India refused, instead conducting a 48-hr op, with the primary offender still making a mockery of the indian legal system.
Snatches only work when u are ready to take the risks. If they know you will take them down no matter what the risks, then they wont hurt you as much.
• Vivek Raghuvanshi says:
April 11, 2010 at 6:52 am
Miguel Pereira Fernandes
========================
Crystal clear…
• Vivek Raghuvanshi says:
April 11, 2010 at 6:53 am
Jonathan E. Clark
=================
At first I thought this was a ‘joke’ question – in the vain of ‘how could the Games NOT be vulnerable’ – but I realize that where I come from, as some have said, anything is possible.
W/O getting into specifics (I would have to be ‘on contract’ to go there) “Outside In” is the philosophy. What is the ’standoff’ to all venues (i.e. the distance at line of sight via road, street, underground (sewer/tunnel), etc. This takes extensive force protection planning and ops. I am sure this is going on.
Making the athletes and representatives ‘feel’ secure is job 1. Making the spectators ‘feel’ secure is job 2. By ‘feel’ I mean that 24/7 an operations center needs to be set up monitoring all aspects of forcepro the entire time, from now through tear down of the venues after the last event and medal ceremony is had. That center will know of things occuring thru having members of all parts of the Indian and International security team feeding information up/down/all around, consistently.
There must be multiple checkpoints of entry based upon 100% identification check, loosely based on how far out can someone unleash a bio/chem or kinetic (bomb) weapon and inflict mass casualties…
Medical/special weapons and tactics folks, undercover counterintelligence teams, ‘fake’ spectators just ‘watching’ would all have to be in play. A key falling down on all of these operations is having a non – hackable communications system such as U.S. OpenSky that everyone is on, and communicating with clear call signs…
Gosh, I could go on and on, but won’t. Email and we can interface if you really want to have a breakout. Great topic, though -
• Vivek Raghuvanshi says:
April 11, 2010 at 6:53 am
Miguel Pereira Fernandes
========================
Mathew,
I bet that someone have already talk to Daud Ibrahim, inviting him to take part on the solution instead of making part of the problem…think about.
Have a great week end, all of you.
• Vivek Raghuvanshi says:
April 11, 2010 at 6:54 am
raj kutty
=========
There has been lot of chatter on-line about “Whether there could be disruption in CWG?” My view – they (the militants/terrorists) could do it with impunity if they are as trained and knowledgeable as all you guys are!
I think it is time to steer the discussion to – HOW CAN INDIAN SECURITY AGENCIES ESPECIALLY IT’S POLITICALLY MANAGED POLICE FORCE DETER THE MILITANTS?!!
My call to HM Chidambaram and CM Shiela Dixit – Get independent security experts and professionals on board asap.
• Vivek Raghuvanshi says:
April 11, 2010 at 6:55 am
Mathew Maavak
=============
Maybe, Dawood could be part of the Red Team exercise prior to the games:-)
I still feel this should be a coordinated NSG/Army/IB operation. If the games are hit, then the UK, Anzac, SA and a host of other nations will be demanding greater accountability from Pakistan. I doubt Pakistan will even dare try this. I think Mr Raghu Nath wagered a bet earlier, and I am with him.
However, what the babus might settle for is a hodge-podge of expensive security toys and toy vendors.
KC,
The Israeli offer was valid and needed during 26/11. Chabad House was atatcked and india needed to watch how they operated at close range. Nothing like personal tutelage.
Otherwise, India needs to develop its own expertise in this regard.
• Vivek Raghuvanshi says:
April 11, 2010 at 6:55 am
Terrorist / Insurgent agenda for Commonwealth games is just a very small cog in the wheel.
The larger issue is terrorists / insurgents want to disrupt Foreign Investment in India.
So, where does terrorist / insurgent strike:
“Where you LEAST expect them to”
http://corporaterisks.info/blog/?p=57
………………………………………As a corollary, insurgents deny all information of themselves to Special Forces who are enveloped in an impenetrable fog.
The Special Forces stand on an lighted stage and from the darkness around them thousands of unseen eyes intently study Special Forces every move, every gesture.
Terrorists / Insurgents have Reconnaissance capability!
• Vivek Raghuvanshi says:
April 11, 2010 at 6:56 am
Jonathan E. Clark
=================
I think we have to look at the security issue of the various physical venues as separate from the intelligence gathering and counterintelligence ‘game’ being played 24/7 x 365/366. We need to treat each venue as distinct, create the outside in barriers (physical and human) to the threat. If we try to cloud our thoughts into the etheral, i.e. ‘terrorists are everywhere and watching’ we tend ot lose focus on the man or woman standing right in front of us at the screening checkpoint or under surveillance, etc. It is a multi – faceted, multi – layer’d problem, for sure – and that is the challenge. They only have to get it right once to effect major physical and psychological damage. We have to get it right 100% of the time…JEC
• Vivek Raghuvanshi says:
April 11, 2010 at 6:56 am
Jonathan E. Clark
==================
Re: Special Forces. Usually by mandate much of the training that goes on is really public knowledge. It is that .05% of stuff that the operators do under the shade of complete secrecy that makes most SF deadly. Now, internal threat as far as infiltration – either being surveiled or worse having a ‘traitor’ in the midst is a more difficult issue. So, in each SF element, a strong counter – intelligence presence must be had, with no prejudice in being suspicious of all within that unit at all times…counter – surveillance is another issue. Besides TSCM (hardware employedfor listening and seeing), informants, and good spy – craft in the field, there is always an element of active, operating insurgency you will not see as it is not only multi – layer’d but much of the time disparate and working in ‘cells’. Much of it is wholly decentralized, operating ‘at whim’ at whatever target presents itself. This can also be its weakness in that without strong leadership at all points, and a near flawless, or perfect execution – (much luck too!) many of the mission plans fail or are disrupted at various points throughout…JEC
• Vivek Raghuvanshi says:
April 11, 2010 at 6:57 am
Yes Jonathan,
MICE
• Vivek Raghuvanshi says:
April 11, 2010 at 6:57 am
David Nordell
==============
In response to Vivek’s original question, I would have to say that there is most certainly a possibility of a terror attack against the games. First of all, there are many potential targets that are actually games sites. From my experience, it’s difficult to harden even a single target site (I’m thinking in particular of the locations where Israeli prime ministers appear in public, where I’ve spotted plenty of security holes in spite of the very careful preparation and the presence of extremely well trained close-protection operatives. And no, I am not going to go into detail). Technical aids, such as metal detectors and explosive sniffers, will help to harden these sites, but the most important security measure is well trained police, and lots of them. But here there is a problem, of carrying out effective security screening of all the police and other security personnel who are going to be deployed during the games, in order to prevent an ‘inside job.’ There also needs to be a separate security supervision team, of agents trained to a higher level and also screened more thoroughly, who task includes both running the Red Team exercises before the event and also keeping a discreet watch, as in internal security team, on the behaviour of the other staff. However, knowing something about the bureaucratic culture and confused leadership that even affect the Indian security and police services, I’m not confident that all of this would be done effectively.
However, the problem is actually much more extensive than securing the games sites themselves. Any terror attack on a hotel or restaurant, or public transport infrastructure, will be much more difficult to prevent, if only because there are too many potential targets and members of the public will not have the same tolerance for security checks there as they will at the sports facilities themselves. But any moderately successful attack, with enough victims and enough media attention, will sabotage the games just as effectively as a bomb killing people in a stadium during a competition.
I completely disagree with the comments about special forces. The main role of special forces in providing security for large-scale events is to act as a rapid reaction force in the event of an attack that lasts longer than a single explosion, to neutralise and eventually kill or capture the attackers. Although special forces, by virtue of their training, are more alert than ‘ordinary’ troops or police, this training doesn’t normally include surveillance of thousands of people in public places in order to spot the signs of stress that are typical of suicide bomber or other terrorists pre-operation. That’s not to say that special forces personnel are not well suited for close protection duties — but that is more for their abilities to provide pre-emptive (or responsive) small-arms fire in the event of an assassination attempt. But protecting large sites in the presence of thousands of people is a different business altogether, and is more similar to airline security.
• Vivek Raghuvanshi says:
April 11, 2010 at 6:58 am
Jonathan E. Clark
=================
I like alot of what I am reading in this thread, one of the more active and insightful.
In regards to DN’s brief, it is interesting and well thought out. I don’t know if anyone has intimated in this thread that SF would take a ‘lead role’ in securing any of the environments in the CwG 2010, so I think DN may be reading a bit into the thread on DN’s part, unless we breakout by line the comments that DN does not agree with…I do think that SF has been mentioned, and the thoughts have drifted from the original hard target security thread commentary of CwG 2010.
DN’s commentary is valid, but to pigeon hole SF into a “this is their mission” statement belies a misunderstanding of the various doctrines and uses of these so called SF forces. What country are we referring to? Are we looking at particularly Indian SF, or the more broad ‘Western’ style? (…and if I go there, then really, honestly, do you think that the “Green Berets” of the U.S. Army with the SF Tab really do any close protection work or covert surveillance, HVT physical security like say an SAS or Delta unit? – let alone a Mossad type outfit?)
Yes, a large police/military presence is key with excellent communications. But, again we are talking at the etheral ‘Boy, an attack can happen anywhere, therefore it could be just as damaging psychologically….talk’.
You would be surprised at how multi – layered physical security principles are very effective at surveillance and containment operations for large – scale events.
I won’t address DN’s visualization of ‘holes’ in Israeli physical security at a certain venue as I’ve worked with them and, well, cannot imagine someone seeing a hole that anyone watching a James Bond movie couldn’t ‘create’ in their mind. But, DN has past experience and knows much more about the exact operational postures of certain units, both in tactics and counter – surveillance than I….And, to that end, there is no situation that any one person, group, or location can be 100 percent safe, ever. But, by using redundancies and failsafes, both TSCM, human, and in intelligence gathering operations, again, a real good job of security assurance can be had, IMO.
Finally, lets just say that if someone posting here sees a ‘hole’ in Israeli personnel and physical security operations, then opines on it, then I would hope positive action was taken to alert someone, anyone at some point of the observation, especially if they have ‘direct connect’ at higher levels…
Good, informed commentary on everyone’s part! JEC
• Vivek Raghuvanshi says:
April 11, 2010 at 6:59 am
David Nordell
=============
Well, thank you Jonathan for your kind words. But I have to go into this discussion further. The mention of SF comes from both Vivek and yourself, and I felt it necessary to comment. I am not pigeonholing SF, and I know perfectly well that there are several different types of SF tasking: my old unit, when I was in it 35 years ago, had a completely different role from other, better-known, parts of UKSF, a role that was more based on covert surveillance and target identification than pure kinetic operations. However, I can make a broad generalisation that SF units, whether SAS, Delta, SEAL, GSG9 or whatever, tend to specialise in a combination of secrecy and surprise, together with the ability to project a great deal of force using very little manpower. The same applies to Mossad special ops, although they’re not SF in the normal sense. But whichever unit (including police SF units such as the various SWAT teams, CO19, Yamam), their role in public event security has much more to do with reaction or preemptive strikes to imminent risks than with prevention. Having said this, of course, terrorists nearly always operate on the basis of a cost/benefit calculation: if they believe not only that it will be difficult to penetrate a target site but that they will also be met immediately by devastatingly lethal force, they’re likely to seek other options.
I completely agree with Jonathan’s comments on the need for redundant, layered security arrangements. But, once again, I would stress the need to base these on well-trained and motivated people more than anything else. We also need to recognise that the bad guys are becoming increasingly professional in their capabilities, not least thanks to states sponsoring terrorism. And this necessarily means that we have to invest more in intelligence at every level, from gathering intelligence on potential terrorist organisations in their home bases (admittedly a role partly suited to SF), to counter-surveillance, and from penetrating helper/sleeper cells to identifying (and interdicting) the financing and provisioning of the terrorist groups.
• Vivek Raghuvanshi says:
April 11, 2010 at 7:00 am
Stephen Cheney
==============
Great comments from JEC and DN. Your knives of analyses are defining the problems surgically. Much of what is said by many and what is being done: is defensive thinking and physical defensive actions. There is only so much that you can do in advance and during an event. You can prepare and wait, but the initiative lies with the attackers. The attackers have a problem of linking to their target. But the attackers can also be a target and counter-operatives have the problem of how to link to them.
The problem needs to be attacked also from a different angle. The operative word being ‘attacked’. In war, who is the hunter and who is the prey is not always clear and roles can be interchangeable. The difficulty in attacking a guerilla type enemy is in finding the enemy. Their strength, a tight cloak of invisibility, is also a weakness. Secrecy also, itself can leave a trail. They are a darker, unnatural black against the night. Some people try too hard to go unnoticed so that, unbeknownst to them, they expose themselves. Even the smallest mouse can be useful in finding the cheese. Counterattacking units can be civilians who only need the experience to know what to look for; the mind can also be a gun and guns are commanded by minds. If the enemy attacking cell/s are not already known, perhaps there needs to be improvements in the training of some specialists (not the SF).
Not all workers have motivation and talent; too many just do their job. They are an unthinking production line, garbage in, garbage out. When you seek to penetrate the unknown you are in an Art, not a science, and the ‘love’ of the art propels you to results that merely following mundane procedures would never reach. Those who achieve most do not follow, they lead. They dare, to go outside the square. Bureaucracy is a tight cloak that restricts the artist and those who are daring, from exploring the world beyond the vision of the bureaucratic mind. Bureaucracy is like a bat, that in its insecurity, wraps so tight its wings to confine its body that it cannot fly. Bureaucracy does not foster the use of imagination, it encourages only what it can define, understand and encompass in memos; a sensible business-like ’scientific’ stance. Yet it is those who are imaginative, who are hard to understand, whose vision reaches into the heights; who provide all the great scientific advances of mankind. Who solve what were insolvable problems.
There may appear to be too much a fog of thinking that is being presented in these lines, and that may be so; but actually, the fog may be a light, the light that blinds some, to others reveals. The quality of the work of people comes mainly from the quality of their training, and the quality of their trainers. For Trainers, however, the time allowed and the material that they are allowed to teach, is not always under their own control. They are bound by their bosses, who are not teachers, but yet decide what it is that teachers, and thus their workers, are able to do, or more to the effect on the end results, are disabled from doing.
• Vivek Raghuvanshi says:
April 11, 2010 at 7:00 am
Dear Mathew,
Army does NOT need to be called in.
This is an Intelligence issue.
What is worrying is that the terrorists know that the CWG 2010 venues will be watched, but what about the whole of Delhi, or lets say the whole of Mother India.
Political embarrassment and media publicity that terrorists can generate, by a single hit anywhere in Delhi or anywhere in any locations in India.
Very complex Mathew.
The terrorists achieve their objective ie Media coverage, even if they are able to carry out a single successful hit anywhere in Delhi or anywhere in India.
Again, when will Mother India, come up with a strong Counter Terrorism Doctrine?
• Vivek Raghuvanshi says:
April 11, 2010 at 7:01 am
Mathew Maavak
==============
You are looking at it from a another angle Vivek. If Delhi is hit, India should publicly develops a preemptive doctrine — and the right to test its nukes.
If the army (specifically counter-insurgency units are not there), it will be blamed on sloppiness and you will have no shortage of vendors hawking their latest gizmos. The army is the most professional security unit India possesses, and this tradition goes back to the days of the British Raj.
And of course, if Delhi is hit, Washington will release a Press Statement stating that they had passed on intelligence to the Indians months before the games. It is so cliched that it makes one yawn. If such intelligence exists, part of it should be made public so that citizens can keep both eyes open for suspected activities collated during the intelligence gathering process.
If their intelligence was so good, why not release photofits of suspected terrorists who have infiltrated into “Mother India’? Oh, they are proffessionals who know what they are doing. In that case, hand over Dawood Ibrahim. Is that too difficult?
If Delhi is hit, then all BPO and outsourcing centres should go on a month-long prayer and fasting, Gandhian-style. After all, we do need prayer don’t we?
But I doubt anything will take place if the Indians show they mean business in protecting their soverignty. Learn from the Chinese. Learn from the Israelis. And learn from the Pakistanis. Might is respected!!
The first step is to announce that nuke testing will resume. You are worried about sanctions? We had to develop cryogenic engines because Uncle Sam did not want us to send up satellites for agricultural terrain mapping. Last year, Washington threw a spanner into Israeli-Swedish collaboration over the Gripen fighters which were a clear frontrunner for the MRCA tender.
We are not just dealing with terror, we are dealing with a network of crass merchants whose loyalty is transnational. How many State Dept employees ended up working for Saudi sheikhs and corporate interests anyway. Was the ISI ever indicted for its role in facilitating the terror nexus that culminated in 9/11.
Intelligence is definitely an issue. The bigger issue is how India will respond in the event of a terror attack. The greater the response the better the deterrance. Why should a non-democratic Communist tyranny like China be allowed to dictate the security consenses at the UN Big Five Council?
You know there are many Chinese folks where I live. They understand one axiom: Keep kicking the West in its teeth and concessions will be obtained.
India need not do that. It just needs to execute programs in the interests of its SOVEREIGNTY.
You have read the bible Vivek. Take this to heart: Daniel 3:18 and apply it to your patriotism.
That’s not a complex reality, my friend.
• Vivek Raghuvanshi says:
April 11, 2010 at 7:02 am
It is a great honor to know men with moral courage and honor here, who considered it important enough to brainstorm with me. Thank you brave warriors, each one of you is very special.
Each one of you is passionate about Counter Terrorism and Counter Insurgency and making a difference.
Intelligence is ONLY taken seriously, when it is in OSINT domain. Public Knowledge.
WILL THE TERRORISTS HIT?
The terrorists have never hit on important occasions because law enforcement agencies are watching.
But can they change their pattern, why not. Yes they can.
WHEN DO TERRORISTS STRIKE?
Terrorists strike when we expect them the least. Terrorists enjoy to catch law enforcement agencies napping / snoozing.
***The terrorist / insurgency business in India generates millions of dollars for terrorists / insurgents through EXTORTION. They systematically collect money from businesses houses, local population and offer them PROTECTION.***
One day India needs to wake up. I hope it does.
Thank you gentlemen warriors for brainstorming with me.
Maybe one day we will all work together and make this world a better place.
It has truly been an honor to know such passionate people.
• Vivek Raghuvanshi says:
April 12, 2010 at 7:53 am
Jonathan E. Clark
=================
This is both an intelligence and a physical security issue. I assure that Vivek knows of what he speaks if he feels that India’s posture in counter – insurgency/force – protection is lacking a bit. I don’t think I misread this thought in a previous post.
This belies an almost greater but more difficult question – I don’t think that anyone would question that the U.S. has the best physical infrastructure – counter – insurgency program in the World, comparing with the $ and the large – scale of in – country and world security operations. Is there an intimation that India and the U.S. DO NOT cooperate in these issues? If the U.S. and say even a Nation that sends many athletes to the CwG like GBR are NOT sharing basic counter – intelligence and counter – insurgency knowledge, which can surely be provided to India ‘canned’ ‘in the box’, ‘with all the bells and whistles’…there is a problem, IMO. But, I did not want to start a whole new discussion involving U.S. policy with now ‘AFPAK’ (it seems lately we cluster Afghanistan and Pakistan policy wrapped into one now = what that means for U.S. India relations is still an outlyer/remains to be seen) as this is a whole other topic (?)
It is a combination of intelligence and manpower. The motivations of the average security guard or Indian police officer or military member cannot be obsessed over, as the more that are out there working together in a multi – layer’d security environment, the more secure the venues will be. JEC
• Vivek Raghuvanshi says:
April 12, 2010 at 7:54 am
David Nordell
=============
I have to respectfully disagree with Matthew’s last remarks. Nuclear deterrence and retaliation are basically irrelevant against terrorist outrages, not least because one must take it as a given that even state-sponsored terrorism is basically deniable. We may all know that the ISI at least colludes in much of the Islamic terrorism directed against India, but it would be massively counterproductive for India to threaten Pakistan with a nuclear attack in the event of a terror attack, or even extended campaign, that could be plausibly associated with Pakistani backers. You should also bear in mind that since Pakistan receives considerable aid from the USA, the US Administration would probably get dragged into any actual or potential armed conflict, but on Pakistan’s side rather than India’s.
If there is any legitimate preemptive doctrine that can be used against Pakistan, it is of very carefully targetted incursions by SF units aimed at gathering intelligence on the one hand and interdicting imminent terror attacks (including by targetted assassination) on the other. These would certainly irritate Pakistan, but are not likely to lead to any escalation beyond sabre-rattling and rhetoric.
I think both Matthew and Vivek should be careful to avoid nationalist cheerleading in this discussion, however strong their patriotic sentiments. This is supposed to be a professional forum, and we should take care to stick to reasoned professional analysis.
Turning to Jonathan’s comments, I am certain that he is correct in agreeing with Vivek about India’s counter-insurgency posture being insufficient. But I think we should distinguish between counter-insurgency, which is relevant to the fight against the Naxalite rebels, and counter-terrorism, which is what we’re actually discussing here. If anything, I suspect that the counter-terrorism situation is worse than the counter-insurgency one, because strong CT defences depend on the police, which is weaker than the army. One should also bear in mind that good CT preparation in a democratic country, which India is (more or less) requires respectful handling of the general public and well-planned public communications (read, in part, visible political leadership); but these don’t appear to be strengths of either the army or the police in India.
The UK and Israel, at least, are certainly sharing a great deal of knowledge with India; but there is a pretty big gap to be bridged with not all much time before the games. And this gap can’t just be plugged with public spending, even on the scale of the USA.
• Vivek Raghuvanshi says:
April 12, 2010 at 7:55 am
Jonathan E. Clark
=================
I agree with DN that passionate and professional factual, informed opinion can oten devolve into passionate and opinion – laced rhetoric and proclaimation. It is interesting that I have had the most interesting and heated debates with others that were highly skilled and knowledgable – both in ’schooling’ (traditional liberal education [not be be confused with the political term - liberal]) and technical trade, combined hopefully – and really to have credibility as a neccessity – with boots on ground or in the planning/operations rooms or the think tanks on all of the topics we discuss, whether it be Global Security, Homeland Security, EMS, or media and politics. I think that is what is being brought here. This is one of the best threads of seen insofar as the thoughts of the operators, tacticians, and educators/trainers that have been responding. Much more than just one or two ‘thought bubbles’ are being thrown on the board. That is always a good thing.
I was corrected responsibly and neccessarily as I did not make a distinction between counter – terrorism and counter – insurgency. I think I did mean to refer to the U.S. counter – terrorism capability, however our law enforement mechanism and cooperation between Federal, state, county, muncipal, and local villages here in the counter – insurgency (i.e. anti – government militia type, race – hate type, or blending religious/political activism with a operational illegal bent – i.e. Black Panthers, religious (think abortion/right to life violence), and enviromental (PETA ALF, etc) is very good – and again for the $ and size of the problem, the best in the World.
I did read something above that is disturbing to a degree, in a comment being made that ‘x’ folks will be hired, ‘x’ numbers of police checks will be done, etc. to support CWG 2010. If this has not already been in process by the Indian committee heading up CwG – that is an issue. I have got to believe that planning operations have been ongoing for some time (?)
I remember when the Olympic Summer Games, 1996, were held in Atlanta. At least 18 month to 2 years heading in, all of the large, urban police departments including mine in Milwaukee at the time (2,100 sworn officers, 19th or 20th largest at the time in the Nation) were asked to see how many of their officers would be willing to come and support the security apparatus at the venues. Special background checks were done, training was essentially not needed as the U.S. DOJ mandates ‘x’ number of hours for all police officers in the U.S. to be certified (400 is average, but for big cities like Milwaukee, it goes upwards of 880 hours of training in – house at an Academy before being sworn and issued a weapon and badge). So, when the games kicked off, other than the “bomb in the trashcan” (a very infamous incident where the FBI targeted the wrong person as the offender, a Mr. R. Jewel, who was a security guard at the event, for years, basically ruining his reputation and his life, IMO) things went very orderly…obviously, the clientele, the operations folks, and the climate is different in New Delhi, but the basic premise of “Proper Prior Plan Prevents Potentially Poor Performance” still must be the same.
I think other topics that grow from this are what is the current state of police and military basic training in the Indian forces. What are the restraints and constraints? I responded to a thread on one of the police forums recently where a police academy director reached out from perhaps Pakistan (?) relating an incident and asking for advice. It was apparent that the training standards and ‘indoctrination’ of the recruits were much differrent, and their was a high religious indoctrination quotient.
• Vivek Raghuvanshi says:
April 12, 2010 at 7:57 am
Miguel Pereira Fernandes
========================
An ‘inside job.’ That will be the way. There are numerous advantages in this practice and that (in theory) should be able to guarantee an high level of efficiency. “Behind the curtains” shouldn’t be difficult to use a “converted” or two.
That’s enough to attract Media attention and compromise the event. Remember; “they” don’t need the Armageddon they just want Public attention for “the cause”…that all “they” want; to score!
It’s a Mind’s “game” rather a Contact “game”. “They” avoid contact…
• Mathew Maavak says:
April 18, 2010 at 8:19 am
Biometric IDs can issued within a short span of time. This avenue should be pursued. It is not fool proof but at least volunteers and personnel deployed can be monitored.
• Vivek Raghuvanshi says:
April 23, 2010 at 8:51 am
Miguel Pereira Fernandes
===================
Attack alerts in Delhi hit plans to stage Commonwealth Games
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/w ... 105608.ece
• Vivek Raghuvanshi says:
April 24, 2010 at 3:54 am
Miguel Pereira Fernandes
========================
I estimate that 265 of 625 districts in India are affected by one form of conflict — with several of them combining different manifestations of violence/Insurgency. And we have to add to the accountability, areas with high levels of Organised Crime.
It’s a great Country with big issues (internal, regional and global). India (as PK) is became too important to look to the other side and not pay attention in a global scenario. We all now that the center of the action have change…
Complex theorem but passionate.
• Vivek Raghuvanshi says:
April 24, 2010 at 3:54 am
Mathew Maavak
=============
Well, Miguel that would mean that there are other high value targets to hit during the Games, and that there is no shortage of terror groups to inflict it, wouldn’t it? If Ibrahim is involved in the next attack, he would go for Mumbai again — with all those specialized personnel being diverted to Delhi.
The Naxals could lit a bonfire here and there away from the epicenter, as I do not think they will be interested in the games.
• Vivek Raghuvanshi says:
April 24, 2010 at 3:55 am
Stephen Cheney
=============
Yes, with resources diverted to New Delhi it will be easier to attack targets elsewhere, however, the Games are the media prize that only comes rarely, other targets can be struck anytime, but not the Games. The whole world will be watching the Games in real time, even in expectation of the extra entertainment of an attack. The terrorist groups will be competing for a gold medal of their own at the Games for who wins the event for the most spectacular ending. Who is able to wreck the Games will gain the most prestige amongst other terrorist groups, amongst their enemies, and will succeed in striking the maximum fear and compliance from the non-combatant populace. A political goldmine
• Vivek Raghuvanshi says:
April 24, 2010 at 3:56 am
Great work guys,
Thanks.
Now some humor:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WMVsnxcuDWE
THE HEAT IS ON
• Vivek Raghuvanshi says:
April 24, 2010 at 3:56 am
I guess NTRO has lot of work to do now.
Lets wish them “Good Hunting”
Great work guys.
I am really indebted for all the valuable time you guys took out for brainstorming.
It is “Hunting Season” I guess.
NTRO will be happy with our work.
Cheers
• Stephen says:
August 22, 2010 at 2:19 am
600 TONNES OF EXPLOSIVES MISSING?
Explosives are common and terrorists can get then from nearly anywhere. The key to this matter is really the delivery system. If the explosives have not already been cemented into the Games facilities infrastructure, then the large volumes cannot be all carried just by suicide bombers, you would need too many suiciders. The trucks themselves would be a valuable mobility and delivery-to-site system. As with nuclear missiles, it is not the nuclear bombs that are costly and difficult to make, once you have the material, it is a suitable missile delivery system that can carry the bombs that is expensive and difficult to manufacture and organize.
So my question is, although some empty trucks have been found, what happened to the rest of the trucks? Are those trucks still available for use by terrorists and can they be traced?
As the trucks did not arrive at their destination, neither did the many drivers. A question is, what happened to the drivers? Are they still missing? What do their families know? as they obviously did not report to the police that the drivers were missing. If not killed, but missing, then the drivers would be party to the crime and some may possibly even be members of the terrorist unit. If so, then investigating the drivers and all their connections may reveal the prime members of the terrorist cell/s. The plodders and the plotters, they would have had to link together in the past somewhere.
April 11, 2010 at 6:19 am
WHAT IF: [ Points to Ponder ].
Which terrorist organisation funds, which terrorist organisation trains them and which terrorist organisation equips them and which terrorist organisation hires Dummies for executing the hit is the question.
P x I
Terrorists will be fools if they take credit. They are smarter now.
I think terrorists are intelligent enough to know that taking credit means the axe.
Any dummy front can take credit.
It is the HP x HI or LP x HI we need to consider here.
• Vivek Raghuvanshi says:
April 11, 2010 at 6:20 am
Cdr Jacob Koottummel [ 4 days ago ]
=====================
Today, i am distressed by yet another breaking news. 74 CRPF personnel killed in a Naxal Ambush today during the course of their duty. Instead of restoring the confidence and support to these affected personnel and families, irresponsible comments like, “we don’t use air power” is made from the Govt side. If they are not enemies’ of the nation, why the government is sending foot soldiers? Does it mean, India has got enough population for supreme sacrifice?
This approach, not even reactive. In dealing with enemies, I have learned only “Swift, Decisive and Punitive” whilst in service. I am not able to understand the new tactics!!!
My heartfelt condolence to all those beleaguered and affected families.
• Vivek Raghuvanshi says:
April 11, 2010 at 6:20 am
Mathew Maavak
=============
Vivek,
When I was a boy at school, some of us non-Muslim kids knew that the Mujahideen-Uncle Sam nexus was bound to backfire. That happened on 9/11. I fear that there might be a repeat of Stupidity 2.0.
There is a verse in the Bible that says: You do not cast your pearls before swines. Otherwise, they will turn around and trample you underfoot.”
An apt description of pacts made right up to 9/11.
I have great respect for American tenacity, intelligence and even their humanity. Norman Borlaugh was sometimes dodging Pakistani bullets when he was helping India achieve the 60s and 70s Green Revolution.
In any case, India has just placed orders for Israeli UAVs in case the Pakistanis clinch the Predator deal down the line.
• Vivek Raghuvanshi says:
April 11, 2010 at 6:21 am
Mathew Maavak
=============
Jacob,
I am all for swift, punitive and very decisive actions. Those soldiers shouldn’t have died. It makes Afghanistan look like a place of minor skirmishes. The pansy “we don’t use air power” cost India many lives during the IPKF fiasco.
• Vivek Raghuvanshi says:
April 11, 2010 at 6:22 am
Raghu Nath Banerjee
===================
Dear All,
I have been following this discussion over the last few days. Lots of What ifs- – - and we all know that there is no end to such brain storming.
Not too late even now to to carry out a review fro threat analysis, CEPTD recommendations for space allocation and traffic / movement flow regulation, int penetration and a thorough Background Check Procedure formulation ( I agree easier said than done with the flotsam of migrant labour and lack of population records – National ID) and implementation of these checks.
I’m still prepared to take on a bet that despite the holes in the net we shall manage to carry it off without any major incidents!!
100 mein se 99 beimaan PHIR BHI Mera Bharat – - – -.
Any one to put the money on the wager?
• Vivek Raghuvanshi says:
April 11, 2010 at 6:23 am
Brother Mathew,
I remember this quote when I attended Chapel every day at Sherwood College, Nainital while growing up.
What really went wrong or lets understand why CRPF were butchered.
They lacked Skill x Drill which is equal to Kill.
Brother Mathew, of course NO direct link can be established to the LEFT parties / Communists in India. Of course how can Mother India establish direct link of Maoists / Naxalites with Communists in India.
Of course Mother India never fantasized / imagined that the radical arm of communists are maoists / naxalites. So difficult for Mother India to join the dots ie fantasize / imagine, lest they be considered schizophrenic.
These IPS and CRPF officers who are on honeymoon should be asked why these men were not trained in counter insurgency ops. Have the Indian police officers NOT been taught or have NOT learnt anything?
1. Where were the scouts [ if they know what scouts are? ].
2. Why there were not 2 – 5 scouts?
3. Why the distance was NOT maintained by the patrol?
4. Why the scouts were not spread out to detect V shape or xyz ambush?
5. Why the patrol was in the Kill zone?
6. Why were the CRPF men NOT trained to fantasize / imagine / perceive ambush scenario?
7. Why the distance between every CRPF man NOT maintained?
8. I feel disgusted by Mother India’s state of the art experts and advisors..
WHY BLAME INTELLIGENCE? This is how mother India passes the buck.
What the insurgents really did was:
1. They had scouts
2. The ambush was likely to be V shape.
3. The cut – offs were in place.
4. Of course how can mother India’s para military forces know what scouts are or what cut – off are.
5. There definitely must have been secondary cut – offs as well.
Maybe Mother India may like me to train their state of the art IPS officers for FREE, which I shall do gladly but the arrogance of these IPS officers and bureaucrats to fantasize and imagine that by virtue of serving in the Government they are security experts.
Hunting terrorists / insurgents is like hunting wild game.
Approx 80 CRPF men who died, each one of them should have kept a distance of 500 metres each and why in the dickens do you have to walk in a vertical column [ left right left ], but of course our state of the art mother India’s serving security experts forgot to train our para military forces how ambush can be broken or how we can set ambush.
The selection for counter terrorism / counter insurgency ops teams requires to be looked into.
Drill x Skill = Kill
• Vivek Raghuvanshi says:
April 11, 2010 at 6:23 am
Mathew Maavak
=============
Vivek,. Agree with all of the above. But I think a V-shaped attack formation is not suitable for that terrain, unless these guys walked into an open ground or a clearing. But I may be wrong.
In order to clear the chaff at the IPS level, you need a concerted and unremmiting media campaign. Only then would you be able to institute a professional counter-insurgency force.
• Vivek Raghuvanshi says:
April 11, 2010 at 6:24 am
Raghu Nath Banerjee
===================
The company had been split into two teams and had gone “jungle Bashing” for 3 days on a report of an Training Camp of the Guerrillas. bvioulsy they did not have the physical and mental stamina to carry out an operation of this nature over prolonged duration and had thrown all caution to the winds after a futile and demoralizing operation
There is an old saying that when an alien force like this moves through insurgency prone rural / jungle terrain-n they do so like a herd pf elephants – yo can hear them from miles away; you also see their trail clearly; while the guerrilla moves like a tiger stalking its prey- trailing the kill and stalking it while it silently creeps upon the prey.As per CRPF version- it was a road opening patrol—- what an irony that it did not secure and open its own return path!!
Who would assume the blame? Was someone responsible for evolving correct training strategy and objectives prior to induction? Was someone responsible to ensure that drills and skills learnt in trianing are rehearsed and practiced on ground? Was operation to be personally led and coordinated by the pot bellied Police Brass or not? Who would answer the widows and the orphans of those killed?
The ambush was a classic one set up on the returning patrol. The convey was led by an armored Protection vehicle that was the first one to be blown up. Obviously the guerrillas knew the characteristics of the soft underbelly and had accurate intelligence, while the Police had none. The IEDs/ Mines were ready and the classic ambush (with a difference of the strength that was employed to spring it) was in position in advance. Nothing new – yet every time the Naxals are managing to concentrate large numbers at the point of decision unobserved. Hence the intelligence network has to be built up FIRST.
Would some heads worth the weight of the caps roll? Would at long last lessons be carried home?
• Vivek Raghuvanshi says:
April 11, 2010 at 6:25 am
Mathew,
By V shape, I mean the cut-off was at the V intersection.
Ambush was on both sides, converging at the first cut-off where it converges.
The CRPF men were caught from both sides, there definitely were more primary cut-offs and secondary cut-offs in place.
Maybe the Ambush zone was a 1 KM long, but you can always foil an ambush if your scouts are smart and the unit trained in counter evasive maneuvers.
1 – 1 – 1 – 1 – 1 – 2 – 2 – 3 – ………………………..
• Vivek Raghuvanshi says:
April 11, 2010 at 6:25 am
Mathew Maavak
=============
A few months back, I followed the ambush unfolding at Gadchiroli. Instead of relief, it was the Naxals who were conducting the mopping up operation. First reports mentioned an ambush and a few cops killed. (In between TV news had the latest Bollywood gossip.) Hours later, there was no relief in sight. I would have thought that a helicopter would have been sent. The event lasted three-odd hours but the media itself was clueless.
The location fascinated me too. Edge of maharashtra, and bordering Andhra and Chhatisgarh. Perfect spot for to scramble jurisdiction.
• Vivek Raghuvanshi says:
April 11, 2010 at 6:26 am
Mathew Maavak
=============
I was chagrined to note that the Naxals make good use of the INSAS rifles.
• Vivek Raghuvanshi says:
April 11, 2010 at 6:27 am
Miguel Pereira Fernandes
========================
A key element (as I just said earlier) is to involve ALL levels of Society in an effort to build up the Nations Pride. China Olympics are a good example of that “coordinated involvement” and is natural security reinforcement.
• Vivek Raghuvanshi says:
April 11, 2010 at 6:27 am
Miguel Pereira Fernandes
========================
This is really a Major Discussion….
I’ve already given my opinion at this subject at least in two others groups. But There are one situation that apparently nobody have arise… Bio hazard.
Can be very dramatic and the Security Committee have to think outside the box. We (are not the Committee…) are all focused in “regular/traditional” threats and apparently forgetting that India have an wide spread and very effective Bio Medical Industry for instance… that should be looked as weak point (one of the oles…)
• Vivek Raghuvanshi says:
April 11, 2010 at 6:28 am
Mathew Maavak
=============
That’s a great way to induce economic terror. This will of course have to come from a govt bio-lab. Maybe, a jihadi working at John Hopkins can cook up a nice virus.
• Vivek Raghuvanshi says:
April 11, 2010 at 6:29 am
Miguel Pereira Fernandes
========================
Mathew,
As you now jihadi’s work almost everywhere…I’m not looking to do small talk. I really think that can be (hope not) a serious concern to the Games Security. And you should now that bio hazard don’t need to came from a Gov-Lab. Just need a normal veterinary Lab…
• Vivek Raghuvanshi says:
April 11, 2010 at 6:30 am
Mathew Maavak
=============
Furthermore, few would dare tinkle with biohazards. If Delhi is attacked, why not lace Af-Pak with the same stuff? It could come from a human vector…a militant who crossed over to safe haven.
• Vivek Raghuvanshi says:
April 11, 2010 at 6:30 am
Mathew Maavak
==============
Even a a donkey can be laced with a virus and set across the border, provided that virus is capable of a species leap.
• Vivek Raghuvanshi says:
April 11, 2010 at 6:31 am
Raghu Nath Banerjee
===================
Dear Mathew & Miguel,
Why are we restricting our thinking to use of animals as a potential bio hazard only? They can even be used as a mobile platform for remote controlled explosive device; a la low cost suicide bomber.
We all know of the prevalence of stray dogs, monkeys and cows and other bovine species even near the North & South Blocks at Delhi. How trainable a monkey or a dog or for that matter an eagle or a kite is needs no elaboration. A dog was seen running across the pitch in one of the international cricket matches recently.
There are no end to possibilities. What are our layers and their levels of permeability and also whether they have been tested for realistic red teaming exercises are the vital questions.
At the end of the day- no security would ever be 100% fool proof. Someone has to take a call of accepting a certain level of risk. All about of P X I and cost of Security (Financial, Psychological and Hindrance / Inconvenience / Delay / Image related costs considered holistically).
• Vivek Raghuvanshi says:
April 11, 2010 at 6:32 am
Mathew Maavak
=============
It can even be borne by a festive balloon Raghu Nath. There is no end to possibilities. I agree with red teaming. How often is it done?
• Vivek Raghuvanshi says:
April 11, 2010 at 6:32 am
Miguel Pereira Fernandes
========================
Now you people understand my concerns… a mobile platform (likely to be an human vector) to spread bio hazard in a environment of World Media attention. In an country like India (with is major lab facilities) they really do have to care too much about searching for an deadly agent. Biological (or chemical) weapons hare widely spread and they’ve got two advantages: stealth and low cost.
Terrorists are recruiting everywhere around the globe and there’s always a schmo to do the job. I still remember Aum Shinrikyo in Tokyo (about 20 years ago…).
Like I’ve said earlier we have to think outside the box.
• Vivek Raghuvanshi says:
April 11, 2010 at 6:33 am
Mathew Maavak
==============
Don’t worry Miguel. Terrorists have relatives who can get infected too. Somehow.
• Vivek Raghuvanshi says:
April 11, 2010 at 6:33 am
Mathew,
What is your opinion on the NEXUS between Communist party in India and its Chinese Masters and Maoists and Naxalites insurgency in India.
This question is open for everyone.
Islamic terrorism is we all know which country’s intel agency is responsible.
Maybe Daud Ibrahim [ ISI ] is flying below the radar.
But now Daud Ibrahim [ ISI ] will look over his shoulder everytime in Dubai.
Dubai does not seem to be that safe for terrorists now.
• Vivek Raghuvanshi says:
April 11, 2010 at 6:34 am
Daud Ibrahim has ISI protection
He is the conduit for money laundering for ISI besides funding and organizing terrorists worldwide.
Checkout Daud Ibrahim’s financial investments in Dubai
Money talks and money walks FREE
Daud Ibrahim also funds politicians.
• Vivek Raghuvanshi says:
April 11, 2010 at 6:34 am
Miguel Pereira Fernandes
========================
Maoist insurgency in India it’s the operative part of the greater plan to spread the Red Doctrine fundamentally (non-officially) supported by China via NK. It common knowledge that Naxals representatives do often visit their offices in cities like Bangkok or Beijing and keep in touch with their contacts from Burma, Vietnam, Nepal, or Bangladesh. Pyongyang arms supply’s using Burma networks plays a major role in China’s Ministry of State Security (MSS) hands.
The Indian Communist Party it’s just the official face of the equation despite everything they could say.
• Vivek Raghuvanshi says:
April 11, 2010 at 6:35 am
Mathew Maavak
==============
Pretty good summation Miguel. Burma is a slave of China, and so they will provide sanctuary and help for the Naxals. Nepal is begging for that “freedom” too. Only Vietnam and Indonesia is holding out in SEA.
The Naxal operation has one vital purpose missed out in India’s dreadful media: To disrupt India economically, making sure that China’s economic ascendance is left unrivalled.
• Vivek Raghuvanshi says:
April 11, 2010 at 6:36 am
Mathew Maavak
=============
Of course Dawood Ibrahim has ISI protection. But it is not only the ISI that is protecting him.
• Vivek Raghuvanshi says:
April 11, 2010 at 6:36 am
When Daud Ibrahim funds politicians, but of course they will look the other way.
Poly ticks is a more appropriate word..
• Vivek Raghuvanshi says:
April 11, 2010 at 6:37 am
Miguel Pereira Fernandes
========================
Money talks and money walks FREE that’s the reality. Mrs.Ibrahim is a very interesting character…and according to my knowledge if he wasn’t well covered in Dubai he already …(he.he.he).
The Spring in Dubai can be very scary, the winds from Telaviv are hot!
• Vivek Raghuvanshi says:
April 11, 2010 at 6:37 am
Miguel Pereira Fernandes
========================
Mathew IT ALL ABOUT MONEY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! the human greedy and stupidity is a never ending story.
• Vivek Raghuvanshi says:
April 11, 2010 at 6:38 am
“To every man upon this earth
Death cometh soon or late.
And how can man die better
Than facing fearful odds,
For the ashes of his fathers,
And the temples of his Gods?”
This is dedicated to the bravest of the brave warriors of Israel.
Maybe one day Cabinet and the Indian Parliament of Mother India will learn what bravery is, what valor is, what courage is.
• Vivek Raghuvanshi says:
April 11, 2010 at 6:38 am
Miguel Pereira Fernandes
========================
We can’t forget that Daud Ibrahim is an high value asset to every Intelligence Service…Like Viktor…
• Vivek Raghuvanshi says:
April 11, 2010 at 6:39 am
Mathew Maavak
=============
Mrs Ibrahim is an interesting character? Come, come, my man. Tell us the details.
The Spring in Dubai can be Scary,
On seeing a large backpack, do not tarry,
The winds from Tel Aviv are hot,
‘Tis time to take out the righteous rod.
Cool haiku, no?
• Vivek Raghuvanshi says:
April 11, 2010 at 6:40 am
Mathew Maavak
=============
Viktor, the Ukrainian? I am behind times here.
Et tu Vivek? You into haiku too?
• Vivek Raghuvanshi says:
April 11, 2010 at 6:41 am
Miguel Pereira Fernandes
========================
And turning back in the discussion, the ultimate china’s goal is to stay as the Major economic Player. First in the Region finally in the Planet.
Backing up this in a politic project you’ve got the picture…
• Vivek Raghuvanshi says:
April 11, 2010 at 6:42 am
No Miguel / Mathew,
I am not a poet.
The Mother of all battles was fought at Rezang La at 16000 feet above sea level.
http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/LAND-FORC ... Mohan.html
Ps:
I was raised in the hallowed cradle of the Kumaon Regiment. My father was commissioned in the legendary 4 Kumaon and commanded 4 Kumaon amongst other things. Late Maj Shaitan Singh of the Battle of Rezang La, his son-in-law is my friend.
It was just a very honest heart felt tribute to the Israeli warriors.
• Vivek Raghuvanshi says:
April 11, 2010 at 6:42 am
Mathew Maavak
=============
Appreciate the tribute Vivek and a very interesting snippet of history.
• Vivek Raghuvanshi says:
April 11, 2010 at 6:43 am
Miguel Pereira Fernandes
========================
thank You Vivek, full of Courage!
• Vivek Raghuvanshi says:
April 11, 2010 at 6:44 am
Miguel Pereira Fernandes
========================
This is what Chinese Gov don’t want!
http://www.worldpoliticsreview.com/article.aspx?id=5378
• Vivek Raghuvanshi says:
April 11, 2010 at 6:44 am
http://www.hindustantimes.com/newdelhi/ ... 29173.aspx
Scrap dealer exposed to radioactive material critical
Can terrorists / insurgents get access to radio active material?
Impact on Commonwealth? –
Where to buy radioactive material in India?
Answer = Scrap dealer
• Vivek Raghuvanshi says:
April 11, 2010 at 6:45 am
Miguel Pereira Fernandes
========================
Poor guy, no comments…probably dismantling some medical/radiological device (if it is Cobalt -60…) . That’s a better way to access sensitive material instead of being exposed in an auction…. If you no what I mean…
• Vivek Raghuvanshi says:
April 11, 2010 at 6:45 am
Mathew Maavak
=============
If its Cobalt, then theoretically the bad guys can buy old medical equipment and create a dirty bomb. But this guy suffered radiation burns. That must have been some quantity.
• Vivek Raghuvanshi says:
April 11, 2010 at 6:46 am
Miguel Pereira Fernandes
========================
But is amazing what you can find in garbage isn’t it?
• Vivek Raghuvanshi says:
April 11, 2010 at 6:46 am
http://www.worldpoliticsreview.com/article.aspx?id=5378
“There’s also growing disenchantment in India about America’s efforts to persuade Pakistan to bring the perpetrators of the Mumbai attack to justice”
————————————————————————————————————–
You know Miguel,
Indian Politicians are cowards. Actually this is a compliment for Indian politicians.
What stops the Indian Cabinet from giving clearance to “Snatch operations”
Maybe Daud Ibrahim will get angry and stop funding political parties.
Indian politicians can never stop whining. Clever and devious they are, with their swiss bank accounts.
Indian politicians like to whine.
Indian politicians themselves do not want to take any action but keep blaming United States.
• Vivek Raghuvanshi says:
April 11, 2010 at 6:47 am
Mathew Maavak
=============
Yup. that sums it up. Lack of spine.
• Vivek Raghuvanshi says:
April 11, 2010 at 6:48 am
Miguel Pereira Fernandes
========================
The Mumbai attack was an effort to promote an escalation with PK..may be the starting point of a War…How are the beneficiaries of that type of decisions?
• Vivek Raghuvanshi says:
April 11, 2010 at 6:48 am
We are already at War.
Neither Pakistan and China will ever dare for a High Intensity Conflict.
Chinese and Pakistanis are very wise. They Indulge in Low intensity Conflict. Low Intensity Conflict can be denied.
Glomer denial!
With the Low Intensity Conflict, pakistanis / chinese have over the decades funded and armed and trained more insurgents / terrorists which have resulted in more law enforcement agencies personnel getting killed.
Remember Kargil, it was shown as Low Intensity Conflict on Media.
Mother India has the wrong Advisors. They lack Insight.
They cannot see into the future.
Nobody really cares, the politicians care the least.
• Vivek Raghuvanshi says:
April 11, 2010 at 6:49 am
Miguel Pereira Fernandes
========================
Everybody makes money with a low Intensity Conflict… Capiche?
• Vivek Raghuvanshi says:
April 11, 2010 at 6:49 am
Mathew Maavak
=============
You forget the Dawood Ibrahim angle in 26/11.
• Vivek Raghuvanshi says:
April 11, 2010 at 6:50 am
In 2007, A N Roy, DGP, Maharashtra Police Chief at Mumbai, invited me for dinner, it was attended by ATS and other law enforcement agencies officials.
I told him, I felt ashamed to be a Indian.
He said, we will never let you down.
And when the pakistani funded terrorists hit Mumbai on 26/11 in 2008, the terrorist morons forgot that the legendary Police Chief DGP A N Roy has zero tolerance.
Had those pakistani trained terrorists hit any other city, the coward politicians would have negotiated with terrorists, but DGP A N Roy will never negotiate with terrorists.
DGP A N Roy kept his word.
• Vivek Raghuvanshi says:
April 11, 2010 at 6:51 am
Miguel Pereira Fernandes
========================
Mathew,
Daud Ibrahim is a Major Player and is relations with ISI go back to the early 90’s (at least).
Vivek,
It’s easier to kill an elephant rather a mosquito…Someone like (D.I) must be track for years….have to be patient… stay focused…exactly like hunting…and in the end he can vanish in the woodlands …right before the hit!
• Vivek Raghuvanshi says:
April 11, 2010 at 6:52 am
K C
====
@ Vivek, snatch ops or extraordinary renditions only work if u have no-deal policy when it comes to retributions. The US has such policies wherein it conducts snatches, but doesnt bend over when faced with terrorist-conducted hostage situations.
Unlike India, which:
1) releases high profile terrorists when faced with hijack situations
2) conducts pathetic HRT ops against in-house situations
3) prevents experienced HRT teams from helping Indian forces like the Nov 26 where Israel offered a 90-min takedown, and India refused, instead conducting a 48-hr op, with the primary offender still making a mockery of the indian legal system.
Snatches only work when u are ready to take the risks. If they know you will take them down no matter what the risks, then they wont hurt you as much.
• Vivek Raghuvanshi says:
April 11, 2010 at 6:52 am
Miguel Pereira Fernandes
========================
Crystal clear…
• Vivek Raghuvanshi says:
April 11, 2010 at 6:53 am
Jonathan E. Clark
=================
At first I thought this was a ‘joke’ question – in the vain of ‘how could the Games NOT be vulnerable’ – but I realize that where I come from, as some have said, anything is possible.
W/O getting into specifics (I would have to be ‘on contract’ to go there) “Outside In” is the philosophy. What is the ’standoff’ to all venues (i.e. the distance at line of sight via road, street, underground (sewer/tunnel), etc. This takes extensive force protection planning and ops. I am sure this is going on.
Making the athletes and representatives ‘feel’ secure is job 1. Making the spectators ‘feel’ secure is job 2. By ‘feel’ I mean that 24/7 an operations center needs to be set up monitoring all aspects of forcepro the entire time, from now through tear down of the venues after the last event and medal ceremony is had. That center will know of things occuring thru having members of all parts of the Indian and International security team feeding information up/down/all around, consistently.
There must be multiple checkpoints of entry based upon 100% identification check, loosely based on how far out can someone unleash a bio/chem or kinetic (bomb) weapon and inflict mass casualties…
Medical/special weapons and tactics folks, undercover counterintelligence teams, ‘fake’ spectators just ‘watching’ would all have to be in play. A key falling down on all of these operations is having a non – hackable communications system such as U.S. OpenSky that everyone is on, and communicating with clear call signs…
Gosh, I could go on and on, but won’t. Email and we can interface if you really want to have a breakout. Great topic, though -
• Vivek Raghuvanshi says:
April 11, 2010 at 6:53 am
Miguel Pereira Fernandes
========================
Mathew,
I bet that someone have already talk to Daud Ibrahim, inviting him to take part on the solution instead of making part of the problem…think about.
Have a great week end, all of you.
• Vivek Raghuvanshi says:
April 11, 2010 at 6:54 am
raj kutty
=========
There has been lot of chatter on-line about “Whether there could be disruption in CWG?” My view – they (the militants/terrorists) could do it with impunity if they are as trained and knowledgeable as all you guys are!
I think it is time to steer the discussion to – HOW CAN INDIAN SECURITY AGENCIES ESPECIALLY IT’S POLITICALLY MANAGED POLICE FORCE DETER THE MILITANTS?!!
My call to HM Chidambaram and CM Shiela Dixit – Get independent security experts and professionals on board asap.
• Vivek Raghuvanshi says:
April 11, 2010 at 6:55 am
Mathew Maavak
=============
Maybe, Dawood could be part of the Red Team exercise prior to the games:-)
I still feel this should be a coordinated NSG/Army/IB operation. If the games are hit, then the UK, Anzac, SA and a host of other nations will be demanding greater accountability from Pakistan. I doubt Pakistan will even dare try this. I think Mr Raghu Nath wagered a bet earlier, and I am with him.
However, what the babus might settle for is a hodge-podge of expensive security toys and toy vendors.
KC,
The Israeli offer was valid and needed during 26/11. Chabad House was atatcked and india needed to watch how they operated at close range. Nothing like personal tutelage.
Otherwise, India needs to develop its own expertise in this regard.
• Vivek Raghuvanshi says:
April 11, 2010 at 6:55 am
Terrorist / Insurgent agenda for Commonwealth games is just a very small cog in the wheel.
The larger issue is terrorists / insurgents want to disrupt Foreign Investment in India.
So, where does terrorist / insurgent strike:
“Where you LEAST expect them to”
http://corporaterisks.info/blog/?p=57
………………………………………As a corollary, insurgents deny all information of themselves to Special Forces who are enveloped in an impenetrable fog.
The Special Forces stand on an lighted stage and from the darkness around them thousands of unseen eyes intently study Special Forces every move, every gesture.
Terrorists / Insurgents have Reconnaissance capability!
• Vivek Raghuvanshi says:
April 11, 2010 at 6:56 am
Jonathan E. Clark
=================
I think we have to look at the security issue of the various physical venues as separate from the intelligence gathering and counterintelligence ‘game’ being played 24/7 x 365/366. We need to treat each venue as distinct, create the outside in barriers (physical and human) to the threat. If we try to cloud our thoughts into the etheral, i.e. ‘terrorists are everywhere and watching’ we tend ot lose focus on the man or woman standing right in front of us at the screening checkpoint or under surveillance, etc. It is a multi – faceted, multi – layer’d problem, for sure – and that is the challenge. They only have to get it right once to effect major physical and psychological damage. We have to get it right 100% of the time…JEC
• Vivek Raghuvanshi says:
April 11, 2010 at 6:56 am
Jonathan E. Clark
==================
Re: Special Forces. Usually by mandate much of the training that goes on is really public knowledge. It is that .05% of stuff that the operators do under the shade of complete secrecy that makes most SF deadly. Now, internal threat as far as infiltration – either being surveiled or worse having a ‘traitor’ in the midst is a more difficult issue. So, in each SF element, a strong counter – intelligence presence must be had, with no prejudice in being suspicious of all within that unit at all times…counter – surveillance is another issue. Besides TSCM (hardware employedfor listening and seeing), informants, and good spy – craft in the field, there is always an element of active, operating insurgency you will not see as it is not only multi – layer’d but much of the time disparate and working in ‘cells’. Much of it is wholly decentralized, operating ‘at whim’ at whatever target presents itself. This can also be its weakness in that without strong leadership at all points, and a near flawless, or perfect execution – (much luck too!) many of the mission plans fail or are disrupted at various points throughout…JEC
• Vivek Raghuvanshi says:
April 11, 2010 at 6:57 am
Yes Jonathan,
MICE
• Vivek Raghuvanshi says:
April 11, 2010 at 6:57 am
David Nordell
==============
In response to Vivek’s original question, I would have to say that there is most certainly a possibility of a terror attack against the games. First of all, there are many potential targets that are actually games sites. From my experience, it’s difficult to harden even a single target site (I’m thinking in particular of the locations where Israeli prime ministers appear in public, where I’ve spotted plenty of security holes in spite of the very careful preparation and the presence of extremely well trained close-protection operatives. And no, I am not going to go into detail). Technical aids, such as metal detectors and explosive sniffers, will help to harden these sites, but the most important security measure is well trained police, and lots of them. But here there is a problem, of carrying out effective security screening of all the police and other security personnel who are going to be deployed during the games, in order to prevent an ‘inside job.’ There also needs to be a separate security supervision team, of agents trained to a higher level and also screened more thoroughly, who task includes both running the Red Team exercises before the event and also keeping a discreet watch, as in internal security team, on the behaviour of the other staff. However, knowing something about the bureaucratic culture and confused leadership that even affect the Indian security and police services, I’m not confident that all of this would be done effectively.
However, the problem is actually much more extensive than securing the games sites themselves. Any terror attack on a hotel or restaurant, or public transport infrastructure, will be much more difficult to prevent, if only because there are too many potential targets and members of the public will not have the same tolerance for security checks there as they will at the sports facilities themselves. But any moderately successful attack, with enough victims and enough media attention, will sabotage the games just as effectively as a bomb killing people in a stadium during a competition.
I completely disagree with the comments about special forces. The main role of special forces in providing security for large-scale events is to act as a rapid reaction force in the event of an attack that lasts longer than a single explosion, to neutralise and eventually kill or capture the attackers. Although special forces, by virtue of their training, are more alert than ‘ordinary’ troops or police, this training doesn’t normally include surveillance of thousands of people in public places in order to spot the signs of stress that are typical of suicide bomber or other terrorists pre-operation. That’s not to say that special forces personnel are not well suited for close protection duties — but that is more for their abilities to provide pre-emptive (or responsive) small-arms fire in the event of an assassination attempt. But protecting large sites in the presence of thousands of people is a different business altogether, and is more similar to airline security.
• Vivek Raghuvanshi says:
April 11, 2010 at 6:58 am
Jonathan E. Clark
=================
I like alot of what I am reading in this thread, one of the more active and insightful.
In regards to DN’s brief, it is interesting and well thought out. I don’t know if anyone has intimated in this thread that SF would take a ‘lead role’ in securing any of the environments in the CwG 2010, so I think DN may be reading a bit into the thread on DN’s part, unless we breakout by line the comments that DN does not agree with…I do think that SF has been mentioned, and the thoughts have drifted from the original hard target security thread commentary of CwG 2010.
DN’s commentary is valid, but to pigeon hole SF into a “this is their mission” statement belies a misunderstanding of the various doctrines and uses of these so called SF forces. What country are we referring to? Are we looking at particularly Indian SF, or the more broad ‘Western’ style? (…and if I go there, then really, honestly, do you think that the “Green Berets” of the U.S. Army with the SF Tab really do any close protection work or covert surveillance, HVT physical security like say an SAS or Delta unit? – let alone a Mossad type outfit?)
Yes, a large police/military presence is key with excellent communications. But, again we are talking at the etheral ‘Boy, an attack can happen anywhere, therefore it could be just as damaging psychologically….talk’.
You would be surprised at how multi – layered physical security principles are very effective at surveillance and containment operations for large – scale events.
I won’t address DN’s visualization of ‘holes’ in Israeli physical security at a certain venue as I’ve worked with them and, well, cannot imagine someone seeing a hole that anyone watching a James Bond movie couldn’t ‘create’ in their mind. But, DN has past experience and knows much more about the exact operational postures of certain units, both in tactics and counter – surveillance than I….And, to that end, there is no situation that any one person, group, or location can be 100 percent safe, ever. But, by using redundancies and failsafes, both TSCM, human, and in intelligence gathering operations, again, a real good job of security assurance can be had, IMO.
Finally, lets just say that if someone posting here sees a ‘hole’ in Israeli personnel and physical security operations, then opines on it, then I would hope positive action was taken to alert someone, anyone at some point of the observation, especially if they have ‘direct connect’ at higher levels…
Good, informed commentary on everyone’s part! JEC
• Vivek Raghuvanshi says:
April 11, 2010 at 6:59 am
David Nordell
=============
Well, thank you Jonathan for your kind words. But I have to go into this discussion further. The mention of SF comes from both Vivek and yourself, and I felt it necessary to comment. I am not pigeonholing SF, and I know perfectly well that there are several different types of SF tasking: my old unit, when I was in it 35 years ago, had a completely different role from other, better-known, parts of UKSF, a role that was more based on covert surveillance and target identification than pure kinetic operations. However, I can make a broad generalisation that SF units, whether SAS, Delta, SEAL, GSG9 or whatever, tend to specialise in a combination of secrecy and surprise, together with the ability to project a great deal of force using very little manpower. The same applies to Mossad special ops, although they’re not SF in the normal sense. But whichever unit (including police SF units such as the various SWAT teams, CO19, Yamam), their role in public event security has much more to do with reaction or preemptive strikes to imminent risks than with prevention. Having said this, of course, terrorists nearly always operate on the basis of a cost/benefit calculation: if they believe not only that it will be difficult to penetrate a target site but that they will also be met immediately by devastatingly lethal force, they’re likely to seek other options.
I completely agree with Jonathan’s comments on the need for redundant, layered security arrangements. But, once again, I would stress the need to base these on well-trained and motivated people more than anything else. We also need to recognise that the bad guys are becoming increasingly professional in their capabilities, not least thanks to states sponsoring terrorism. And this necessarily means that we have to invest more in intelligence at every level, from gathering intelligence on potential terrorist organisations in their home bases (admittedly a role partly suited to SF), to counter-surveillance, and from penetrating helper/sleeper cells to identifying (and interdicting) the financing and provisioning of the terrorist groups.
• Vivek Raghuvanshi says:
April 11, 2010 at 7:00 am
Stephen Cheney
==============
Great comments from JEC and DN. Your knives of analyses are defining the problems surgically. Much of what is said by many and what is being done: is defensive thinking and physical defensive actions. There is only so much that you can do in advance and during an event. You can prepare and wait, but the initiative lies with the attackers. The attackers have a problem of linking to their target. But the attackers can also be a target and counter-operatives have the problem of how to link to them.
The problem needs to be attacked also from a different angle. The operative word being ‘attacked’. In war, who is the hunter and who is the prey is not always clear and roles can be interchangeable. The difficulty in attacking a guerilla type enemy is in finding the enemy. Their strength, a tight cloak of invisibility, is also a weakness. Secrecy also, itself can leave a trail. They are a darker, unnatural black against the night. Some people try too hard to go unnoticed so that, unbeknownst to them, they expose themselves. Even the smallest mouse can be useful in finding the cheese. Counterattacking units can be civilians who only need the experience to know what to look for; the mind can also be a gun and guns are commanded by minds. If the enemy attacking cell/s are not already known, perhaps there needs to be improvements in the training of some specialists (not the SF).
Not all workers have motivation and talent; too many just do their job. They are an unthinking production line, garbage in, garbage out. When you seek to penetrate the unknown you are in an Art, not a science, and the ‘love’ of the art propels you to results that merely following mundane procedures would never reach. Those who achieve most do not follow, they lead. They dare, to go outside the square. Bureaucracy is a tight cloak that restricts the artist and those who are daring, from exploring the world beyond the vision of the bureaucratic mind. Bureaucracy is like a bat, that in its insecurity, wraps so tight its wings to confine its body that it cannot fly. Bureaucracy does not foster the use of imagination, it encourages only what it can define, understand and encompass in memos; a sensible business-like ’scientific’ stance. Yet it is those who are imaginative, who are hard to understand, whose vision reaches into the heights; who provide all the great scientific advances of mankind. Who solve what were insolvable problems.
There may appear to be too much a fog of thinking that is being presented in these lines, and that may be so; but actually, the fog may be a light, the light that blinds some, to others reveals. The quality of the work of people comes mainly from the quality of their training, and the quality of their trainers. For Trainers, however, the time allowed and the material that they are allowed to teach, is not always under their own control. They are bound by their bosses, who are not teachers, but yet decide what it is that teachers, and thus their workers, are able to do, or more to the effect on the end results, are disabled from doing.
• Vivek Raghuvanshi says:
April 11, 2010 at 7:00 am
Dear Mathew,
Army does NOT need to be called in.
This is an Intelligence issue.
What is worrying is that the terrorists know that the CWG 2010 venues will be watched, but what about the whole of Delhi, or lets say the whole of Mother India.
Political embarrassment and media publicity that terrorists can generate, by a single hit anywhere in Delhi or anywhere in any locations in India.
Very complex Mathew.
The terrorists achieve their objective ie Media coverage, even if they are able to carry out a single successful hit anywhere in Delhi or anywhere in India.
Again, when will Mother India, come up with a strong Counter Terrorism Doctrine?
• Vivek Raghuvanshi says:
April 11, 2010 at 7:01 am
Mathew Maavak
==============
You are looking at it from a another angle Vivek. If Delhi is hit, India should publicly develops a preemptive doctrine — and the right to test its nukes.
If the army (specifically counter-insurgency units are not there), it will be blamed on sloppiness and you will have no shortage of vendors hawking their latest gizmos. The army is the most professional security unit India possesses, and this tradition goes back to the days of the British Raj.
And of course, if Delhi is hit, Washington will release a Press Statement stating that they had passed on intelligence to the Indians months before the games. It is so cliched that it makes one yawn. If such intelligence exists, part of it should be made public so that citizens can keep both eyes open for suspected activities collated during the intelligence gathering process.
If their intelligence was so good, why not release photofits of suspected terrorists who have infiltrated into “Mother India’? Oh, they are proffessionals who know what they are doing. In that case, hand over Dawood Ibrahim. Is that too difficult?
If Delhi is hit, then all BPO and outsourcing centres should go on a month-long prayer and fasting, Gandhian-style. After all, we do need prayer don’t we?
But I doubt anything will take place if the Indians show they mean business in protecting their soverignty. Learn from the Chinese. Learn from the Israelis. And learn from the Pakistanis. Might is respected!!
The first step is to announce that nuke testing will resume. You are worried about sanctions? We had to develop cryogenic engines because Uncle Sam did not want us to send up satellites for agricultural terrain mapping. Last year, Washington threw a spanner into Israeli-Swedish collaboration over the Gripen fighters which were a clear frontrunner for the MRCA tender.
We are not just dealing with terror, we are dealing with a network of crass merchants whose loyalty is transnational. How many State Dept employees ended up working for Saudi sheikhs and corporate interests anyway. Was the ISI ever indicted for its role in facilitating the terror nexus that culminated in 9/11.
Intelligence is definitely an issue. The bigger issue is how India will respond in the event of a terror attack. The greater the response the better the deterrance. Why should a non-democratic Communist tyranny like China be allowed to dictate the security consenses at the UN Big Five Council?
You know there are many Chinese folks where I live. They understand one axiom: Keep kicking the West in its teeth and concessions will be obtained.
India need not do that. It just needs to execute programs in the interests of its SOVEREIGNTY.
You have read the bible Vivek. Take this to heart: Daniel 3:18 and apply it to your patriotism.
That’s not a complex reality, my friend.
• Vivek Raghuvanshi says:
April 11, 2010 at 7:02 am
It is a great honor to know men with moral courage and honor here, who considered it important enough to brainstorm with me. Thank you brave warriors, each one of you is very special.
Each one of you is passionate about Counter Terrorism and Counter Insurgency and making a difference.
Intelligence is ONLY taken seriously, when it is in OSINT domain. Public Knowledge.
WILL THE TERRORISTS HIT?
The terrorists have never hit on important occasions because law enforcement agencies are watching.
But can they change their pattern, why not. Yes they can.
WHEN DO TERRORISTS STRIKE?
Terrorists strike when we expect them the least. Terrorists enjoy to catch law enforcement agencies napping / snoozing.
***The terrorist / insurgency business in India generates millions of dollars for terrorists / insurgents through EXTORTION. They systematically collect money from businesses houses, local population and offer them PROTECTION.***
One day India needs to wake up. I hope it does.
Thank you gentlemen warriors for brainstorming with me.
Maybe one day we will all work together and make this world a better place.
It has truly been an honor to know such passionate people.
• Vivek Raghuvanshi says:
April 12, 2010 at 7:53 am
Jonathan E. Clark
=================
This is both an intelligence and a physical security issue. I assure that Vivek knows of what he speaks if he feels that India’s posture in counter – insurgency/force – protection is lacking a bit. I don’t think I misread this thought in a previous post.
This belies an almost greater but more difficult question – I don’t think that anyone would question that the U.S. has the best physical infrastructure – counter – insurgency program in the World, comparing with the $ and the large – scale of in – country and world security operations. Is there an intimation that India and the U.S. DO NOT cooperate in these issues? If the U.S. and say even a Nation that sends many athletes to the CwG like GBR are NOT sharing basic counter – intelligence and counter – insurgency knowledge, which can surely be provided to India ‘canned’ ‘in the box’, ‘with all the bells and whistles’…there is a problem, IMO. But, I did not want to start a whole new discussion involving U.S. policy with now ‘AFPAK’ (it seems lately we cluster Afghanistan and Pakistan policy wrapped into one now = what that means for U.S. India relations is still an outlyer/remains to be seen) as this is a whole other topic (?)
It is a combination of intelligence and manpower. The motivations of the average security guard or Indian police officer or military member cannot be obsessed over, as the more that are out there working together in a multi – layer’d security environment, the more secure the venues will be. JEC
• Vivek Raghuvanshi says:
April 12, 2010 at 7:54 am
David Nordell
=============
I have to respectfully disagree with Matthew’s last remarks. Nuclear deterrence and retaliation are basically irrelevant against terrorist outrages, not least because one must take it as a given that even state-sponsored terrorism is basically deniable. We may all know that the ISI at least colludes in much of the Islamic terrorism directed against India, but it would be massively counterproductive for India to threaten Pakistan with a nuclear attack in the event of a terror attack, or even extended campaign, that could be plausibly associated with Pakistani backers. You should also bear in mind that since Pakistan receives considerable aid from the USA, the US Administration would probably get dragged into any actual or potential armed conflict, but on Pakistan’s side rather than India’s.
If there is any legitimate preemptive doctrine that can be used against Pakistan, it is of very carefully targetted incursions by SF units aimed at gathering intelligence on the one hand and interdicting imminent terror attacks (including by targetted assassination) on the other. These would certainly irritate Pakistan, but are not likely to lead to any escalation beyond sabre-rattling and rhetoric.
I think both Matthew and Vivek should be careful to avoid nationalist cheerleading in this discussion, however strong their patriotic sentiments. This is supposed to be a professional forum, and we should take care to stick to reasoned professional analysis.
Turning to Jonathan’s comments, I am certain that he is correct in agreeing with Vivek about India’s counter-insurgency posture being insufficient. But I think we should distinguish between counter-insurgency, which is relevant to the fight against the Naxalite rebels, and counter-terrorism, which is what we’re actually discussing here. If anything, I suspect that the counter-terrorism situation is worse than the counter-insurgency one, because strong CT defences depend on the police, which is weaker than the army. One should also bear in mind that good CT preparation in a democratic country, which India is (more or less) requires respectful handling of the general public and well-planned public communications (read, in part, visible political leadership); but these don’t appear to be strengths of either the army or the police in India.
The UK and Israel, at least, are certainly sharing a great deal of knowledge with India; but there is a pretty big gap to be bridged with not all much time before the games. And this gap can’t just be plugged with public spending, even on the scale of the USA.
• Vivek Raghuvanshi says:
April 12, 2010 at 7:55 am
Jonathan E. Clark
=================
I agree with DN that passionate and professional factual, informed opinion can oten devolve into passionate and opinion – laced rhetoric and proclaimation. It is interesting that I have had the most interesting and heated debates with others that were highly skilled and knowledgable – both in ’schooling’ (traditional liberal education [not be be confused with the political term - liberal]) and technical trade, combined hopefully – and really to have credibility as a neccessity – with boots on ground or in the planning/operations rooms or the think tanks on all of the topics we discuss, whether it be Global Security, Homeland Security, EMS, or media and politics. I think that is what is being brought here. This is one of the best threads of seen insofar as the thoughts of the operators, tacticians, and educators/trainers that have been responding. Much more than just one or two ‘thought bubbles’ are being thrown on the board. That is always a good thing.
I was corrected responsibly and neccessarily as I did not make a distinction between counter – terrorism and counter – insurgency. I think I did mean to refer to the U.S. counter – terrorism capability, however our law enforement mechanism and cooperation between Federal, state, county, muncipal, and local villages here in the counter – insurgency (i.e. anti – government militia type, race – hate type, or blending religious/political activism with a operational illegal bent – i.e. Black Panthers, religious (think abortion/right to life violence), and enviromental (PETA ALF, etc) is very good – and again for the $ and size of the problem, the best in the World.
I did read something above that is disturbing to a degree, in a comment being made that ‘x’ folks will be hired, ‘x’ numbers of police checks will be done, etc. to support CWG 2010. If this has not already been in process by the Indian committee heading up CwG – that is an issue. I have got to believe that planning operations have been ongoing for some time (?)
I remember when the Olympic Summer Games, 1996, were held in Atlanta. At least 18 month to 2 years heading in, all of the large, urban police departments including mine in Milwaukee at the time (2,100 sworn officers, 19th or 20th largest at the time in the Nation) were asked to see how many of their officers would be willing to come and support the security apparatus at the venues. Special background checks were done, training was essentially not needed as the U.S. DOJ mandates ‘x’ number of hours for all police officers in the U.S. to be certified (400 is average, but for big cities like Milwaukee, it goes upwards of 880 hours of training in – house at an Academy before being sworn and issued a weapon and badge). So, when the games kicked off, other than the “bomb in the trashcan” (a very infamous incident where the FBI targeted the wrong person as the offender, a Mr. R. Jewel, who was a security guard at the event, for years, basically ruining his reputation and his life, IMO) things went very orderly…obviously, the clientele, the operations folks, and the climate is different in New Delhi, but the basic premise of “Proper Prior Plan Prevents Potentially Poor Performance” still must be the same.
I think other topics that grow from this are what is the current state of police and military basic training in the Indian forces. What are the restraints and constraints? I responded to a thread on one of the police forums recently where a police academy director reached out from perhaps Pakistan (?) relating an incident and asking for advice. It was apparent that the training standards and ‘indoctrination’ of the recruits were much differrent, and their was a high religious indoctrination quotient.
• Vivek Raghuvanshi says:
April 12, 2010 at 7:57 am
Miguel Pereira Fernandes
========================
An ‘inside job.’ That will be the way. There are numerous advantages in this practice and that (in theory) should be able to guarantee an high level of efficiency. “Behind the curtains” shouldn’t be difficult to use a “converted” or two.
That’s enough to attract Media attention and compromise the event. Remember; “they” don’t need the Armageddon they just want Public attention for “the cause”…that all “they” want; to score!
It’s a Mind’s “game” rather a Contact “game”. “They” avoid contact…
• Mathew Maavak says:
April 18, 2010 at 8:19 am
Biometric IDs can issued within a short span of time. This avenue should be pursued. It is not fool proof but at least volunteers and personnel deployed can be monitored.
• Vivek Raghuvanshi says:
April 23, 2010 at 8:51 am
Miguel Pereira Fernandes
===================
Attack alerts in Delhi hit plans to stage Commonwealth Games
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/w ... 105608.ece
• Vivek Raghuvanshi says:
April 24, 2010 at 3:54 am
Miguel Pereira Fernandes
========================
I estimate that 265 of 625 districts in India are affected by one form of conflict — with several of them combining different manifestations of violence/Insurgency. And we have to add to the accountability, areas with high levels of Organised Crime.
It’s a great Country with big issues (internal, regional and global). India (as PK) is became too important to look to the other side and not pay attention in a global scenario. We all now that the center of the action have change…
Complex theorem but passionate.
• Vivek Raghuvanshi says:
April 24, 2010 at 3:54 am
Mathew Maavak
=============
Well, Miguel that would mean that there are other high value targets to hit during the Games, and that there is no shortage of terror groups to inflict it, wouldn’t it? If Ibrahim is involved in the next attack, he would go for Mumbai again — with all those specialized personnel being diverted to Delhi.
The Naxals could lit a bonfire here and there away from the epicenter, as I do not think they will be interested in the games.
• Vivek Raghuvanshi says:
April 24, 2010 at 3:55 am
Stephen Cheney
=============
Yes, with resources diverted to New Delhi it will be easier to attack targets elsewhere, however, the Games are the media prize that only comes rarely, other targets can be struck anytime, but not the Games. The whole world will be watching the Games in real time, even in expectation of the extra entertainment of an attack. The terrorist groups will be competing for a gold medal of their own at the Games for who wins the event for the most spectacular ending. Who is able to wreck the Games will gain the most prestige amongst other terrorist groups, amongst their enemies, and will succeed in striking the maximum fear and compliance from the non-combatant populace. A political goldmine
• Vivek Raghuvanshi says:
April 24, 2010 at 3:56 am
Great work guys,
Thanks.
Now some humor:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WMVsnxcuDWE
THE HEAT IS ON
• Vivek Raghuvanshi says:
April 24, 2010 at 3:56 am
I guess NTRO has lot of work to do now.
Lets wish them “Good Hunting”
Great work guys.
I am really indebted for all the valuable time you guys took out for brainstorming.
It is “Hunting Season” I guess.
NTRO will be happy with our work.
Cheers
• Stephen says:
August 22, 2010 at 2:19 am
600 TONNES OF EXPLOSIVES MISSING?
Explosives are common and terrorists can get then from nearly anywhere. The key to this matter is really the delivery system. If the explosives have not already been cemented into the Games facilities infrastructure, then the large volumes cannot be all carried just by suicide bombers, you would need too many suiciders. The trucks themselves would be a valuable mobility and delivery-to-site system. As with nuclear missiles, it is not the nuclear bombs that are costly and difficult to make, once you have the material, it is a suitable missile delivery system that can carry the bombs that is expensive and difficult to manufacture and organize.
So my question is, although some empty trucks have been found, what happened to the rest of the trucks? Are those trucks still available for use by terrorists and can they be traced?
As the trucks did not arrive at their destination, neither did the many drivers. A question is, what happened to the drivers? Are they still missing? What do their families know? as they obviously did not report to the police that the drivers were missing. If not killed, but missing, then the drivers would be party to the crime and some may possibly even be members of the terrorist unit. If so, then investigating the drivers and all their connections may reveal the prime members of the terrorist cell/s. The plodders and the plotters, they would have had to link together in the past somewhere.
Re: Issues faced by Commonwealth Games-New Delhi 2010
^^^ Cutting and pasting gobs of data without attribution is bad form.
Wouldnt a link have sufficed?
Wouldnt a link have sufficed?
-
Vivek Raghuvanshi
- BRFite
- Posts: 149
- Joined: 08 Apr 2010 22:50
- Location: Noida, National Capital Region
- Contact:
Re: Issues faced by Commonwealth Games-New Delhi 2010
This was a WARGAME conducted in April 2010 by me and my team.
I would want the experts at Bharat Rakshak to wargame and brainstorm further to make CWG 2010 SAFE.
This current wargaming at Bharat Rakshak will help GoI eliminate weakness / vulnerabilities for the upcoming CWG 2010
I would want the experts at Bharat Rakshak to wargame and brainstorm further to make CWG 2010 SAFE.
This current wargaming at Bharat Rakshak will help GoI eliminate weakness / vulnerabilities for the upcoming CWG 2010
Re: Issues faced by Commonwealth Games-New Delhi 2010
choti muah bari baat sarkar, but cannot the delhi ridge permit even a entire company of stormtroopers to start from the farmlands and scrublands near mehrauli and move fairly undetected at night with heavy ordnance all the way upto karol bagh, passing vital political and sports areas along the way? they could even hide out a few days waiting for the right time.
zodiac boats on the yamuna, smuggled in/stolen from rafting outfits in uttaranchal and HP could take teams of jihadi frogmen and dump them at various points to divert
attention at six places while the real attack comes at various points out of the ridge forests.
idea is a lot of pinpricks to confuse and panic the police into rushing resources into the wrong places while the strong decisive force builds up and uncoils elsewhere, kinda like the british and canadian divisions post-normandie were used to 'fix' most of the german panzers while patton's tank army landed and built up strength for the march on paris (with gen leclerc's armoured divs)!
if there is ever an event calculated to raise the moral of cashmere rage boys and soaking wet jihadi critters along the upper indus, it is CWG.
since everyone will leave after an attack, the GOI will be on backfoot to explain the huge expenses and further politically weakened. game for more browbeating by massa
demanding 'concessions'.
meantime delhi bashis are booking so many plane tickets to escape the CWG, prices to popular places are at peaks. with sikkim, goa, andamans in hot demand.
zodiac boats on the yamuna, smuggled in/stolen from rafting outfits in uttaranchal and HP could take teams of jihadi frogmen and dump them at various points to divert
attention at six places while the real attack comes at various points out of the ridge forests.
idea is a lot of pinpricks to confuse and panic the police into rushing resources into the wrong places while the strong decisive force builds up and uncoils elsewhere, kinda like the british and canadian divisions post-normandie were used to 'fix' most of the german panzers while patton's tank army landed and built up strength for the march on paris (with gen leclerc's armoured divs)!
if there is ever an event calculated to raise the moral of cashmere rage boys and soaking wet jihadi critters along the upper indus, it is CWG.
since everyone will leave after an attack, the GOI will be on backfoot to explain the huge expenses and further politically weakened. game for more browbeating by massa
demanding 'concessions'.
meantime delhi bashis are booking so many plane tickets to escape the CWG, prices to popular places are at peaks. with sikkim, goa, andamans in hot demand.
Re: Issues faced by Commonwealth Games-New Delhi 2010
Does "wargame" mean "saturate the thread with so much stuff that the enemy falls asleep", I wonder. BTW, under the new format, I should have prefaced that with "enqyoob says":
Re: Issues faced by Commonwealth Games-New Delhi 2010
Kalmadi has unveiled a CWG Baloon costing 40 crs. on Thursday.
Kalmadi says "no ordinary balloon but a piece of technology and art."
Kalmadi says "no ordinary balloon but a piece of technology and art."
Re: Issues faced by Commonwealth Games-New Delhi 2010
Works remain woefully unfinished. Rains may play spoilsports. Keeping fingers crossed and praying to GOD let this game be pass successfully despite .......
Re: Issues faced by Commonwealth Games-New Delhi 2010
Based on what I hear about the rain situation in Delhi, I believe there won't be any shortage of places at which to hold the swimming events, at least.
-
Vivek Raghuvanshi
- BRFite
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- Joined: 08 Apr 2010 22:50
- Location: Noida, National Capital Region
- Contact:
Re: Issues faced by Commonwealth Games-New Delhi 2010
Yesterday I did a recon at the Commonwealth Games Village, where the athletes will be billeted.
Next to the CWG Village, there are low lying areas.
1. Terrorist Frogmen can have a free run undetected from the Yamuna river
2. The low lying areas can hide snipers. The perimeter is not sniper proof. Multiple snipers can hide undetected.
3. The bridge over Yamuna is not secure. Just be creating a human wall of policemen on both sides of the road will not suffice.
4. Both sides of the Yamuna river needs to be secured by day and night patrols. Maybe using NVGs is not a bad idea.
5. There are no cut-offs in the marshy areas, I guess they think that the terrorists will use the roads.
6. There are no patrols on both sides of Yamuna and neither is the bridge secure ie the frogmen can plant explosives below the bridge.
What are the bureaucrats in charge of Commonwealth Games doing? I wonder.
http://corporaterisks.info/blog/?p=677
Next to the CWG Village, there are low lying areas.
1. Terrorist Frogmen can have a free run undetected from the Yamuna river
2. The low lying areas can hide snipers. The perimeter is not sniper proof. Multiple snipers can hide undetected.
3. The bridge over Yamuna is not secure. Just be creating a human wall of policemen on both sides of the road will not suffice.
4. Both sides of the Yamuna river needs to be secured by day and night patrols. Maybe using NVGs is not a bad idea.
5. There are no cut-offs in the marshy areas, I guess they think that the terrorists will use the roads.
6. There are no patrols on both sides of Yamuna and neither is the bridge secure ie the frogmen can plant explosives below the bridge.
What are the bureaucrats in charge of Commonwealth Games doing? I wonder.
http://corporaterisks.info/blog/?p=677
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Vivek Raghuvanshi
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Re: Issues faced by Commonwealth Games-New Delhi 2010
Security concerns may prompt New Zealand to pull out of Commonwealth Games
http://www.dnaindia.com/sport/report_se ... es_1437211
http://www.dnaindia.com/sport/report_se ... es_1437211
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Vivek Raghuvanshi
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Re: Issues faced by Commonwealth Games-New Delhi 2010
TEXT-Nice Systems gets deal with Delhi police
NICE Systems Ltd (NASDAQ: NICE), the worldwide leader of intent-based solutions that extract insight to impact business performance, reduce financial risk and ensure safety and security, today announced that India's HCL Security, NICE's strategic partner and the project's prime contractor, will be implementing NICE's integrated security solution at India's Delhi Police.
NICE will enable Delhi Police with an integrated command, control, coordination and communication center (C4i) solution to meet operational requirements for the upcoming October 2010 Commonwealth Games 2010 and beyond.
Re: Issues faced by Commonwealth Games-New Delhi 2010
CWG: A new-look website for Delhi Metro
The new-look website http://www.delhimetrorail.com has been designed on the lines of the sites of Hong Kong, Tokyo and Singapore Metros, Delhi Metro Rail Corporation Managing Director E Sreedharan said at its launch.
DMRC spokesperson Anuj Dayal said the Delhi Metro studied the website of these Metros before re-designing the website, which now has an international look.
Designed to help foreign visitors and others from rest of the country to get to know about the city and the Games, the website will have an interactive route map which will help the commuters to look for routes and fares in a easy manner.
The special booklet, which will be available free of cost to everyone at Metro stations, major hotels, restaurants and other places of importance, has a Metro network map and details of heritage sites, cultural centres and other tourist attractions in the national capital.
The booklet has details about the Games venue and how it is being connected with the Delhi Metro. The Metro will provide connectivity to 10 of the 11 stadias in the national capital.
The new website has been based on Content Management System (CMS) which will ensure quick updation of the site. It has been designed and developed by Netcomm Labs Pvt. Ltd. in collaboration with DMRC.
Re: Issues faced by Commonwealth Games-New Delhi 2010
Commonwealth Express now in Gujarat
The Commonwealth Express, an exhibition on wheels showcasing the importance of the Commonwealth Games -- to be held in Delhi Oct 3-14, arrived at the railway station in Gujarat on Tuesday and was welcomed with a colourful cultural programme.
The train has 14 coaches, of which five have rare games memorabilia and six are devoted to information technology. One of the coaches displays the sport events scheduled during the Commonwealth Games, as also the stadia where each of the events will be held.
the main objective of the exhibition is to promote the Commonwealth Games, it showcases the importance of information and communication technology (ICT) in different fields and its influence on human life.
Re: Issues faced by Commonwealth Games-New Delhi 2010
Delhi dazzles like never before
Delhi is getting all dolled up for the Commonwealth Games and its doing so in style.
From ornamental street furniture to fancy signages, civic agencies are pulling out all stops to make the Capital look uber-attractive. Elaborate decorative signages, bill boards and street art have sprouted
throughout the city, ensuring visitors get a feel world-class cities such as Hong Kong and Sydney when they come calling during the Games
Right from information kiosks, luxury toilet complexes, modern street art, vending kiosks, aesthetically appealing foot over-bridges, and trendy streetlights have been put up across the city.
Re: Issues faced by Commonwealth Games-New Delhi 2010
Nehru Stadium ready for the Games
For all those wondering what will be the state of the Commonwealth Games (CWG) venues after yet another day of heavy showers, the picturesque Nehru Stadium came across as almost fully ready to host the opening ceremony.
The aerostat is the first of its kind in India and on the opening day (October 3), it will be a spectacle to behold." With several TV crews from home and Australia watching the aerostat and the colourful backdrop of the stadium, there was suspense and excitement in the arena. "I think rains do not matter at all, everything is in place now as you can see,"
In fact, if you can see the puppet hanging from the aerostat, you can get a glimpse of what is in store. The pictures which will be beamed from the aerostat will be fascinating, just watch out for it on the big day." There has been a lot of criticism for the aerostat, described in layman's language as a giant balloon. It's 80 metres long and 40 metres wide and has video cameras and screens in it. With AR Rahman's theme song blaring in the background from the high-quality speakers, it does appear that things are on course with 19 days to go for the Games.
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kishoreseo
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Re: Issues faced by Commonwealth Games-New Delhi 2010
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Re: Issues faced by Commonwealth Games-New Delhi 2010
Judgement day looms for Kalmadi
Much has been made of the comparison between the upcoming event and a traditional Indian wedding, in which the chaos of preparation transforms into a glorious spectacle at the last minute. The problem is that Kalmadi and his committee are running out of last minutes.
“India is the flavour of the month. The Games will be a success. All the negative publicity will stop when the event is a success,” Kalmadi told reporters when pressed about the deluge of negative media coverage that has dogged the event’s preparation.
Re: Issues faced by Commonwealth Games-New Delhi 2010
The problem is that Kalmadi and his committee are running out of last minute
Re: Issues faced by Commonwealth Games-New Delhi 2010
India makes pledge on Commonwealth Games security
But Dr Gill told BBC Hindi security officials from more than 70 countries had declared their satisfaction with India's planning for the Games.
He said, "Security will not be just 100 but 120% foolproof.There will be around 100,000 security personnel
to ensure safety during the Games."
WRONG-- it is over 173 dead and over 308 injured.Security in India has been under scrutiny since the terror attacks of March 2008 in Mumbai that left 101 people dead and 287 injured.
New Zealand recently said their team would only travel to Delhi if their government was satisfied that athletes would be safe to train and compete.
beebeecee as usual telling lies.The Commonwealth Games run from 3-14 October, with athletes are due to start arriving on 25 September.
Re: Issues faced by Commonwealth Games-New Delhi 2010
DTC took delivery of 3000 low floor AC buses recently. Don't know how they will be treated by DTC and the crazy drivers of Delhi, but looking at about a 1000 of them all shiny and in one alighnment is quite a sight. I hope the mods will allow this inline image to stay for a little bit.
Image from The Hindu
Image from The Hindu
Re: Issues faced by Commonwealth Games-New Delhi 2010
7 News in Australia has got this special investigation on security lapses for CWG in Delhi.
Australian foreign affairs has issued travel advisory to Oz's about high possibility of terror attack in Delhi.
Check the video on this link.
http://au.news.yahoo.com/video/national
Attack on two Taiwanese seems to be creating well-intended hype among foreigners and inflict damage to India's reputation at the right time.
Australian foreign affairs has issued travel advisory to Oz's about high possibility of terror attack in Delhi.
Check the video on this link.
http://au.news.yahoo.com/video/national
Attack on two Taiwanese seems to be creating well-intended hype among foreigners and inflict damage to India's reputation at the right time.
Re: Issues faced by Commonwealth Games-New Delhi 2010
^ why is this not a bigger news? just because nobody died?
Re: Issues faced by Commonwealth Games-New Delhi 2010
Footbridge near JLN stadium has just collapsed. 30 injured 5 serious. Work was continuing as bridge was supposed to be opened on 3rd Oct.
And I thought these things would happen , at least , after CWG. What a shame.
And I thought these things would happen , at least , after CWG. What a shame.
Re: Issues faced by Commonwealth Games-New Delhi 2010
apparently security is now ok, but facilities quality remains a problem (according to new zealand team)
apart from any white supremacy issues, i hope this is a wake up call for indian officials and politicians that chalta hai and 'indian standards onlee' are not good enough - and indians have the right for better and more
apart from any white supremacy issues, i hope this is a wake up call for indian officials and politicians that chalta hai and 'indian standards onlee' are not good enough - and indians have the right for better and more
Re: Issues faced by Commonwealth Games-New Delhi 2010
(BBC)Row over 'unfit' Delhi Games site
Conditions at India's Commonwealth Games village come under fire, as a bridge near the main venue in Delhi collapses days before the event begins.
Conditions at India's Commonwealth Games village come under fire, as a bridge near the main venue in Delhi collapses days before the event begins.
Re: Issues faced by Commonwealth Games-New Delhi 2010
http://www.thestar.com/sports/article/8 ... elled?bn=1
Now we have New Zealand's Team Manager saying the games "may not happen" because of severe difficulties faced in completing athletes' accomadation.
Now we have New Zealand's Team Manager saying the games "may not happen" because of severe difficulties faced in completing athletes' accomadation.
Re: Issues faced by Commonwealth Games-New Delhi 2010
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/others ... es-19.html
Commonwealth Games 2010 in crisis as 19 injured in stadium foot bridge collapse
At least 19 people have been injured after a foot bridge collapsed near the main Commonwealth Games stadium in Delhi as fears grow that the event may be called off amid concerns over security, accommodation and competitor safety.
http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/gene ... 85120.html
Shocking conditions put Delhi Games under threat
Commonwealth Games 2010 in crisis as 19 injured in stadium foot bridge collapse
At least 19 people have been injured after a foot bridge collapsed near the main Commonwealth Games stadium in Delhi as fears grow that the event may be called off amid concerns over security, accommodation and competitor safety.
Team leaders from England, Scotland, Wales, New Zealand, Australia and Canada have all expressed "grave concerns" over the housing for the 6,500 team members and said some was "unsafe and unfit for human habitation".
However, Sports minister Hugh Robertson said he remains confident the Games will go ahead.
"It would be an utter tragedy if anything went wrong at the last moment," he said. "There is nothing that I have seen or heard that has suggested that these are problems that cannot be sorted out.
PS:This is a national disgrace and if the Games do not go ahead then MMS should resign,as the buck stops with him.He has neglected his duty to the nation and the Commonwealth with his indifference to anything other than the N-deal,"his obsession" as a veteran BBC journo ,India expert, told me just a few weeks ago.Concerns over the athletes' accommodation has also been expressed by the Commonwealth Games Federation and the England and New Zealand teams.
A statement from Commonwealth Games England this morning called for "urgent" work before their athletes begin arriving on Friday amid worries over "plumbing, electrical and other operational details".
With New Zealand Prime Minister John Key expressing his concerns, team manager Dave Currie said the games may not go ahead.
"In the time frame that is left, unless there is tremendous effort and energy and problem-solving ability to get it done, it's going to be extremely hard to get across the line," Currie told New Zealand radio. "If the village is not ready and athletes can't come, obviously the implications of that are that (the event) is not going to happen."
http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/gene ... 85120.html
Shocking conditions put Delhi Games under threat
PAThe Games start on October 3 and Commonwealth Games England said although they remain optimistic the event can go ahead there is a need for "urgent" work before their athletes begin arriving on Friday especially with plumbing and electrics.
Commonwealth Games Federation president Michael Fennell has admitted that the village is "seriously compromised" and has written to the Indian Cabinet Secretary expressing his "great concern".
He said: "The village is the cornerstone of any Games and the athletes deserve the best possible environment to prepare for their competition.
"Many nations that have already sent their advanced parties to set up within the village have made it abundantly clear that, as of the afternoon of September 20, the Commonwealth Games village is seriously compromised."
"It is unacceptable from the organising committee that they have put athletes through this."
Re: Issues faced by Commonwealth Games-New Delhi 2010
incidentally, we should have expected both paquis and dragon to have tried to sabotage the games... no doubt some things are underway