J & K news and discussion

JE Menon · Post by **JE Menon** » 16 Sep 2010 04:39

Relax boys and girls. This is a drawing out the mofos exercise (and not just in J&K). It will not last very long. The monkeys on the streets will soon return to the trees. We need to see how good our good friends are. So far, they are being very good indeed.

No need to fall for the journos' drama queen prose. What do you think is going to happen? These kids are going to throw stones for years? Let them. Are they going to shut down J&K (yeah, right) indefinitely? Let them (try). Who's going to suffer? They themselves. Until they learn to behave, they are free to misbehave.

It will fade from the newscreens in no time, and thereof from our mindspace. Reasonably well dressed kids though, you noticed? Not easy to find a bunch of similarly dressed chaps in such a relatively population sample elsewhere in India, don't you think? Someone's been making money...

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 16 Sep 2010 06:24

From our R Vaidya:

http://www.dnaindia .com/opinion/ main-article_ learning- to-deal-with- confused-and-declining- empires_1437534

Learning to deal with confused and declining empires

Published: Tuesday, Sep 14, 2010, 2:08 IST
By R Vaidyanathan | Place: Mumbai | Agency: DNA

The decision of the Ohio state government to restrict outsourcing for
government contracts has created a furore among IT and other business
groups. Barack Obama is also bashing the outsourcing industry - and
Indian companies. But is all this new? In 2003, New Jersey went down the
same populist road. Here's a report from that time: "The Scottsdale,
Arizona-based eFunds, a firm that processes electronic fund transfers
for some 200,000 New Jersey welfare recipients, will end its Mumbai
operations shortly and open a customer service centre in the same state.
The new call centre, to be opened in Camden City, New Jersey, will cost
US$340,000 a month, about 20% more than the $270,000 it cost to run it
out of India. The extra cost will be underwritten by the state
government.. .". "This is a victory for New Jersey and its taxpayers. We
have 6% unemployment and it is important to show our people that the
government is sensitive to their job search," said Shirley Turner, a
state senator who moved a bill to limit outsourcing. That bill was
passed in the senate by a 40-0 vote in December 2002, with an amendment
removing the possibility of even legal aliens in the US being employed
for servicing the contract. It provided that only citizens of the US
"shall be employed." Asked how she would justify the higher costs of
functioning out of the US and criticism from free traders, she said the
government had to respond to a "higher calling". "Higher calling" is a
very interesting expression to use in global trade and commerce.
Imagine any Indian politician talking about a "higher calling"! With the
unemployment rate touching 15% among young and poor groups in many
states and elections looming in November, one can expect many such
"higher callings". Fortress USA is going to emulate Fortress Europe.
But first it needs acknowledging that outsourcing is a favor done by
Indians to the US. Using low-cost Indian firms helps US companies stay
afloat in a recession when it may take at least 40 quarters (10 years)
for the US economy to recover. With a national debt of more than $13
trillion (it is going to top the GDP soon), America is becoming a banana
republic. Not only that, the budget deficit is skyrocketing and is more
than 10% of GDP - and rising. Most state governments are broke and they
are producing spurious, Satyam/Enron- type accounting tricks to stay
afloat. Many state universities are in dire financial straits. There will be furious
printing of more currency to make ends meet. The expected inflation is
going to rip society apart. One of the largest selling items last year
was handguns.
The US is a confused empire on the decline. It is not just facing an
economic crisis, but also a social one. Its family system is collapsing,
with married and continually married persons becoming a minority.
Unfortunately, US society has not created an alternative to the family
as a unit of human endeavor. Dysfunctional families are increasing and
giving rise to a dysfunctional society with some schools feeling the need to install metal detectors for gun screening. Individuals are to be cared for by
the state, not by their spouses or children or grandchildren. The family
is broke, and so is the state. In the next 20 years, India and China
will have a respectable share of global GDP - nearly 40% - as was the
case in the early 19th century. The US's real problem is that it is
still to come to terms with this reality. Obama is long on rhetoric and
short on substance - not unlike our own politicians - and the US is now
more divided than before. US society unites only when it has a permanent
enemy. During the cold war, the USSR served that purpose. Now, it is
radical Islam. But Obama is confused even here. He has tried flattery
(in his Cairo speech, he attributed many scientific achievements to
Islamic civilization) , but it hasn't worked. He has tried bribery and
bullying (pandering to the Pakistani army and ISI is a case in point),
but nothing is going to hide the fact of the US power is on the wane in
many parts of the world.
Since nothing works, Obama is trying the last option: arm-twist
potential friends to buy peace with its real enemies. If the ISI needs
to be appeased with a piece of J&K then the US will try to arm-twist
India. Here's my prediction: When Obama visits India in November, the
level of violence in J&K will increase to convince him that Kashmir is
the problem. Someone in the foreign office should plot the correlation
between visits of US officials and mob frenzy in downtown Srinagar. In
the last century, a declining British Empire created havoc by
partitioning India.

With friends like these, India will have to play its cards carefully. We
must use the clout of our huge market to invite those in who will
subserve our national interests. US bullying needs to be ignored with
the contempt it deserves.

He starts out with outsourcing and comes to J&K in final para.

Jarita · Post by **Jarita** » 16 Sep 2010 07:47

^^^ Link

Jarita · Post by **Jarita** » 16 Sep 2010 08:22

Anindya wrote:
The latest is that the remaining Sikhs in the Kashmir valley are being killed/bullied as well. Their shops are being boycotted, some are missing for days, mosques are making announcements to go after the Kafirs.
For those who can read punjabi

http://newspaper.ajitjalandhar.com/
Jarita - can somebody create specific translations of the articles on the link above...

Sorry. Perhaps someone on the site can.
The summary is that

"Mosques are saying Kaafir deaths will lead to heaven"
"Sikh Shops are being boycotted"
"Sikhs are missing and being killed - a fireman etc"
" People are telling Sikhs "Kaafiro chale jao"

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 16 Sep 2010 09:13

ramana wrote:I find PC's stance very intriguing off late. His playing to some other gallery? Which is it?

True. That comes from internal dynamics of INC.

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 16 Sep 2010 11:54

More AFSPA details

By B.L Saraf

The Armed Forces ( Special Powers) Act ( shortly the Act hereinafter ) was originally enacted in year 1958 for the states of Assam and Manipur. Then, in year 1972 its operation was extended to whole of the North Eastern part of the country. Prior to the Act, the President had promulgated, on 25th May 1958, ordinance of the same title for the same purpose .In 1983 the Parliament enacted The Armed Forces (Punjab and Chandigarh ) Special Powers Act, to deal with the extra ordinary situation which had arisen there as a result of terrorist activities of the extremists and the secessionist elements. It was later extended to Jammu & Kashmir as The Armed Forces (Jammu &Kashmir) Special Powers Act, 1990 and came into force on 5th July 1990. The aims and objects of the Act were outlined by the Delhi High Court in A.I.R 1983 Delhi 513, wherein it held,"… if the circumstances warranted by the historical background are examined a social purpose is fulfilled by the statute. This is permissible. The parliament was justified in enacting the Act and its action in doing so was just, fair and reasonable ". The Gauhati High Court, later on, endorsed this view in PUDR case . The legislation is , primarily ,intended to protect the strategic interests of the nation and quell the secessionist activities, which, initially ,surfaced in Nagaland and other parts of the North East, finally engulfed Punjab and J&K.
The Act is extraordinary piece of legislation to meet extraordinary situation .The experts on the insurgency tell us that to meet the challenge 'speed and surprise' are the best tools to be employed .The Act , surely , emphasizes the point . Whenever there is threat from the secessionists, a state can invoke Sec 3 of the Act and declare the whole or any part as disturbed ,so that it can requisition the armed forces to come to the aid of civil powers Sec 4 empowers any commissioned officer , non commissioned officer or any other person of an equivalent rank to open fire and cause death of any person who is overawing the government or acting in contravention of any law if, in his opinion, it is necessary to do so. Similarly ,he can destroy a premises if, in his opinion, it is used as ammunition dump or a shelter to the terrorist .The words "if necessary" are loaded with caution .According to Delhi High Court ,in the case referred above, no absolute and unguarded power has been conferred on the armed forces to kill and destroy property in every situation. Sec; 6 --Sec 7 in our case - grants immunity to the persons from legal actions who act in good faith to exercise the powers . The immunity is not unqualified, as alleged by the activists. If the central government feels so it can sanction prosecution of the erring person. With design, a myth is being created by making casual and fleeting remarks about the so called blanket powers of the armed forces to run amuck . Well, this is not unique or special to the Act . Analogous provisions are there in Sec 197 Cr P C , Sec 5 of Prevention of Corruption Act and some other enactments . If law grants some protection to an alleged corrupt public servant heavens won't fall if a brave soldier , who constantly puts his life in the firing line to let his country men live ,is saved from motivated and frivolous litigation .Sec 6 has a judicial approval . So has the Act in general .In the above referred case the Delhi High Court noted the need to ensure that the officers concerned do not have to face frivolous litigation for the acts done in due discharge of the duty. There is an orchestrated campaign developing to change the language of Sec 6 to allow for the prosecution of armed forces in all cases excepting where, "government is able to convince the courts other wise ." If allowed ,it would mean placing a cart ahead of the horse . It will defeat the very purpose . Once prosecution is launched the agony starts . This is of no use to say ,after years of litigation , that the accused had acted in good faith.
Some provisions of the Act , no doubt ,are stringent. But ,then ,so are certain provision in other laws like N D P S Act. When we understand what kind of situations they have to contend with the so called stringency pales into insignificance . For instance ,one deals with the highly motivated bigots, bent upon to tear the country apart , and the other battles the chronic drug peddlers and the drug users . They all are menace to the society .
In 1991, the Attorney General of India ,while presenting second periodic report to the United Nations Human Rights Committee ,argued that AFSPA was a necessary measure to prevent secession of the North Eastern states .He said that a response to this agitation for secession had to be quick and appropriate .His other argument was that the Indian Constitution, in Article 355,casts a duty on the Central Government to protect the states from internal disturbance, and there is no duty under international law to allow secession
AFSPA is not the problem. Malaise lies somewhere else. Normally, it is the duty of civil authorities to maintain law and order and keep the subversive elements at a bay .However, when things go beyond the control of the civil power then , as an extraordinary measure ,help of the armed forces is sought .The Act is an enabling provision . It gives powers to the armed forces to act according to the situation without waiting for an authorization of the civil authorities. Their job becomes akin to that of the police official whose actions are well covered under the provisions of Criminal Procedure Code .In that event certain degree of immunity is conferred on the armed force. The problem, in deed, is the failure of the civil power to cope up with the situation. Speaking conversely, such an enormity is created by the insurgents and the subversives that it becomes impossible for the civil police to deal with . A problem is ,thus , created which calls for proper and effective medication .More serious a disease more is the need of a strong medicine The practitioners of the medicine tell us the stronger medication, sometimes , causes serious side effects . Unpleasant and highly irritating boils and lacerations, temporarily, develop on the body of a seriously ill when he is subjected to a strong dose of chemotherapy. The AFSPA, no doubt, administers a medicine of strong potency .Because , resort is had to it when the patient has fallen, near, terminally ill. Some unavoidable collateral reactions are bound to happen . To save the situation from becoming ugly the malady must be prevented from erupting . The prevention and cure of the disease of insurgency is the problem Application of AFSPA is , unavoidable, "irritating" part of the solution process. There fore, job of the state is to get rid of the menace of terrorism and subversion . Once that is done , the Act would stand taken care of . Let us not confuse solution with the problem .If the state could manage the internal security problem with its police force and does not call Army for this purpose AFSPA would become non operational.
The efficacy of the Act , as also of the other laws which are meant to curb the armed militancy and make life safe for a law abiding citizen , is often questioned on most absurd grounds . It has become fashionable for the so called activists to say that half a century old application of AFSPA in the North East and its two decades operation in J&K has not helped to change the ground situation for the better . So , they argue for its annulment . The same absurd argument was made by these megaphones of the disruptive elements to denounce the anti terror laws like TADA and POTA .Political correctness is stretched to the ridiculous lengths. Well , presence of a penal law on the statute book would not ,ipso facto ,mean elimination of crime from the scene . Had it been so then all five hundred odd types of crimes , made punishable offences under the Indian Penal Code , would have vanished in thin air soon after Lord Macaulay gave us the Law . No body should fool himself in the belief that a penal law will make a society completely crime free .In the same way, no civil law can assure a litigation free ambience . Should, then, we pray for abrogation of all the laws as they are a drain on the public exchequer? Every law is likely to be misused. That does not mean it has lost the purpose. Laws make situations manageable and ensure certain degree of order in the society . Remember, we don't live in ideal times . Let these 'activists' put hands on their hearts and say where would have Naga land been and what could be the geographic contours of the North East had not the armed forces ,aided by AFSPA ,held the fort for India .It worked well in Punjab. Same can be said about its working in Kashmir , the recent stone pelting incidents not withstanding . A cursory look at the internet should make us aware how certain ' e ' media is mischievously bent upon to emphasize the diversity between Naga and Mainland culture and constantly stoke the fire of separatism .
The demand of revocation of the Act ,coming from the valley, is political and sounds clichéd .Even if revoked , nothing will change on the ground. It, certainly, won't satisfy those for whom the mother of all demands is 'Azadi'.There is, enormously, more in the demand than meets the eye .
It is true that no law works to the entire satisfaction of the public at large and that there is always a room for the improvement .This could be true of AFSPA as well .For that ,Justice Jeevan Reddy committee has submitted a report to the central government We hope some action is taken in the matter ,keeping in view the prevailing security scenario in the country .But let every one be cautious not to through the baby out with the bath water .It is the duty of the state to strike a balance between the democratic rights of a citizen and the safety of the national institutions , apart from ensuring the geographical stability of the country . Institutions are built to strengthen the democratic and an orderly political set up .Seen thus, the rights of an individual are always subservient to the good of the country. Therefore, on occasions, a citizen will have to bear with a little bit of collateral inconvenience.
(The author is former Principal Distt. And Session Judge)

Manish Jain · Post by **Manish Jain** » 16 Sep 2010 13:51

I agree with JE Menon that nothing much is going to happen. GOI will just sit on it and soon winters will start in valley. I don't think we're going to see those stone pelters in snow.

More likely they're going to be indoors counting their cash earned for this season's rioting. Next year, they'll have to start again from scartch. Lets see how long before they get tired.

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 16 Sep 2010 14:17

Manish Jain wrote:GOI will just sit on it and soon winters will start in valley. I don't think we're going to see those stone pelters in snow.

May be we should learn a few things from the Chinese after all. May be the KMs can be persuaded to stay indoors all year round.

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 16 Sep 2010 14:53

Is Great Bong a BRFite? If not, I on the behalf of all webmasters and moderators by the powers not quite vested upon me declare him a honorary BRFite.

http://greatbong.net/2010/09/16/more-on ... d-kashmir/

I do not remember them creating an analogue of Hizbul Mujahideen’s slogan during the Pandit ethnic cleansing “Azadi Ka Matlab Kya? La Iilaha Illalah” [Page 155, Shadow War] (which is, I believe, a rather appropriate definition of the Kashmiri concept of Azadi, provided by the freedom fighters themselves)

So much so, that should Kashmir manage to secede, whether it stays independent or merges with Pakistan would become a point of academic interest, since both the states having been founded on identical philosophies would be, for all intents and purposes, indistinguishable from each other (except that Pakistan would most probably have the better cricket team).

If further proof as to how derailed everything is, a crazy nutjob threatens to burn the Koran in the US and Kashmiris, presumably many of them belonging to the new “well-read” generation, march threateningly towards a church (reported by Hindustan Times) in Kashmir. Which makes me ask, where in all this is independence, or the “non-lovable face of India” even an issue?

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 16 Sep 2010 15:55

B. Raman worries about a point of no return.
http://www.southasiaanalysis.org/papers ... r4038.html

sum · Post by **sum** » 16 Sep 2010 16:32

Don't be misled by Geelani, army tells Kashmir

The Indian Army on Thursday asked Kashmiris not to pay heed to the call given by hardline Hurriyat Conference leader Syed Ali Shah Geelani to march towards the security forces' camps in the Valley on September 21 to press for demilitarisation of the state.

"The army makes a sincere appeal to people to avoid being misled by the Hurriyat leaders and avoid confronting Army garrisons or vehicles," Defence spokesman Lt Colonel J S Brar told media persons in Srinagar.

The spokesman even asked the Hurriyat Conference to withdraw its protest programme in order to prevent loss of life or property.

The army appeal comes a day after top security and civil officials met in Srinagar to devise a strategy to tackle the separatist programme for September 21.

A special core group meeting was chaired by security adviser to the chief minister Lt Gen NC Marwah, where measures were discussed to effectively counter the protest calendar issued by the Hurriyat. A detailed joint strategy was formulated to restore normalcy in Kashmir.
....."The Hurriyat is indeed misleading the ordinary masses and trying to create a wedge between army and the people for its vested interests. People should avoid falling into the trap laid by Hurriyat leaders," he said.

The spokesman said the Hurriyat programme of protesting outside army camps was a deliberate attempt to embroil the army in the ongoing agitation and distract it from its primary role of guarding the borders and countering insurgency.

Meanwhile, Geelani told media persons at his residence that his programme is peaceful and there is no plan to attack the security forces camps.

"We only want to tell the forces that they will have to leave this land one day. The elders of the respective areas will lead the marches and hand over memoranda to the army personnel in this regard," he added.

Sigh...

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 16 Sep 2010 16:48

The stick and carrot are both needed.BRaman's concern that the dignity of the kashmiris must be preseved is a fundamental,that must also ensure that traitors like Geelani who preach seccessionism and are the cat'spaw of the ISI must also be taught a lesson.For the likes of Geelani,arrests under the treason act should be carried out,the individuals deported from the state,property confiscated and stiff sentences imposed.In the case of Geelani,a "lifer" should be in order.Secondly,why have we not invested better in non-lethal weaponry for crowd control? When we ae so profligate wth the Chor Wealth Games,we can easily invest in bulldozers,armoured vehicles,and a host of other systems that can control crowds,protect paramilitary forces and defat the "stoned Kashmiris".As JEM says,if we can reduce dramatically the fatalities,the stoned ones will run out of steam,will be arresed and incarcerated in state "guest houses" ,which could be set up on our island territories were savage indigenous tribes live who might even enjoy sme Kashmiri "food" to brighten their traditional diet!

rajum · Post by **rajum** » 16 Sep 2010 17:17

Geelani and his gang will be up to their mischief on Sept 21 and Sept 24 . They will try to escalate the situation on these two days for sound bites and in anticipation of worldwide attention on them . meanwhile news of army continuing with its mandate of ridding the valley of the militant pests is very pleasing to our eyes and ears .

http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/article672752.ece

Seven militants killed in encounters in Jammu and Kashmir

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 16 Sep 2010 17:21

Philip wrote:. . . that the dignity of the kashmiris must be preserved is a fundamental. . .

I do not quite understand how and who is harming the dignity of the Kashmiris. It is some of the Kashmiris themselves who harmed it by speaking with a forked tongue, by encouraging extremism & terrorism, by having no clear-cut idea of what they want, by wanting to be separate from the rest of the country, by sending children to indulge in rock throwing and putting them in harm's way and then claiming that the police force is brutal, by driving out Pandits who have as much if not more rights to Kashmir, by talking of conversion of Sikhs etc. all the while talking about an elusive 'Kashmiriyat' that nobody is able to define.

What are the grievances of the Kashmiris ? Independence or autonomy cannot be any of them because they are not going to get it. They have to learn to behave like the rest of Indian states. Apart from these unattainable goals, what are their demands ? GoI and various interested parties have been talking to them for decades now. It should be pretty obvious what their demands are and what are the positions of the Indian state. And yet, nobody is able to clearly articulate any of these. It is high time that the GoI brings out a white paper to clarify to the nation what have the various Kashmiri groups been demanding and what the GoI is willing to consider. The citizens of India, whose tax money is being spent for the welfare and security of these ungrateful people, have a right to know these details.

narmad · Post by **narmad** » 16 Sep 2010 17:37

Is CRPF (as a organization) the main culprit here.
Were the CRPF trained to handle Law and Order in the Valley ? Or were they sent in like the way they were against the Maoists?

sanjeevpunj · Post by **sanjeevpunj** » 16 Sep 2010 17:49

CRPF is just what its name says (a Reserve Police Force, organised centrally, to handle state based issues that states themselves cannot handle with their limited police forces.Its neither an elite force, nor is it too well trained, but where numbers matter, it is deployed first. One cannot look at CRPF as a culprit, but there is definitely no denying that it is being exploited by the centre in many regions of India, and that is so disturbing.Imagine the loss in numbers, amongst the CRPF, in Maoist attacks.Its a huge number, and if you add the State police casualties, you can see the damage Maoists are doing to the infrasctructure of policing, and maintenance of law and order.

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 16 Sep 2010 19:05

CRPF is not relevant to the matter at hand, nothing in the matter is about any type of security forces, not the J&K police and not the CRPF.

In fact under the conditions they have behaved admirably, any other force from any other country would have thought the trouble makers what "collective justice" actually means.

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 16 Sep 2010 19:20

i'd like to see hosing the stone throwers using fire engines, lets see how keen they are then

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 16 Sep 2010 19:38

The demand of the wahabi KMs for the removal of the AFSPA etc is just a way of insulting and demeaning the Indian State.

If the MMS govt gives way in any way on the AFSPA or the disturbed areas act as demanded by the wahabis and the commies, it will be trumpeted as the humiliation of the Indian Army and by extension the Indian state itself.

There is no real cause for such hyped up "anger" against the Army as 99% of the confrontation takes place between the paramilitary forces and the J&K police.

The Army goes in only when invited in writing and leaves immediately on completion of its immediate given task.

Stone pelting is as lethal as firing bullets. The stones thrown by the locals is fairly big and over 1700 police and paramilitary forces have been injured.

No mention of this in the DDMs which focuses solely on the "poor helpless kashmiris"

The stone throwing tactic was pioneered, tried and tested in palestine as is well known.

Madam entering the arena at this late stage and proclaiming that "we should understand why the KM is angry" has thrown a new factor into the complex mix of intangibles. This has completely hamstrung the process.

This has limited the room for maneuver for the congress party itself as has yuvraj's statement supporting inept omar.

Can any man really be so stupid??

Ashley Kravitz · Post by **Ashley Kravitz** » 16 Sep 2010 20:55

King Rat of HurriRat mewling on Hamid "Taliban lover" Mir's show Capital Talk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1rmO8Kaf ... r_embedded#!

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 16 Sep 2010 21:28

Nightwatch comments

14 Sept., 2010

India-Jammu and Kashmir State: Update. A curfew was extended to all major towns on 14 September following the 14 deaths in clashes, officials said. Rioters had taken over the national highway leading to Jammu, stranding travelers. Air service was suspended for another three days.

Comment: Yesterday{9/13/2010} the issue stoking civil unrest supposedly was Quran burning in the US, though Kashmiris were two or more days behind the issue. Today's demonstrations showed the demonstrators will seize on any convenient issue to disrupt civil order.

What the Kashmiris never seem to understand is how they are being manipulated, by Pakistan. No country in central Asia wants another Islam-based state and that includes Pakistan.

Pakistan's interests are served by manipulating the Kashmiri aspirations for an independent state so as cause turmoil that ties down a quarter million or more Indian Army and paramilitary police force in security duties. Pakistani politicians always must pay lip service to Kashmiri independence or self-determination to placate the Pakistan Army, but neither the politicians nor the Army wants an independent Islamic Kashmir state.

China sees no profit from the creation of another independent Muslim state. India's constitution specifies that Jammu and Kashmir State is integral to India. No state bordering Kashmir wants another uncontrollable source of constant regional instability. Those principles are fundamental to assessing unrest in Kashmir.

Relative to the interests of all the parties, the Kashmiris get a much better deal working with the Indians than they would get from any Muslim state in central Asia, especially Pakistan. Pakistan would annex them to keep them under control.

India-Pakistan: Defense Minister Mukhtar said Pakistan does not want a war with India, but if India tried to impose a war behind the facade of a Kashmir dispute, then Pakistan would fully defend its territory.

Mukhtar said India's concern over and objection to the presence of Chinese troops in Gilgit-Baltistan is incorrect. He said China is Pakistan's friend and has helped the country in tough times, so Pakistan can never forget Beijing's goodwill gestures. He also said the Chinese troops were in no way interfering with Pakistan's work and sovereignty.

Note: Mukhtar's remarks look a lot like an admission about the accuracy of the Indian accusations, confirming the presence of Chinese soldiers in far northern Pakistan.

There after Af-Pak mess the panch gon assessment is no more Muslim states in Central Asia. My caveat is that as no more new Sunni Muslim states. We dont know about a secular (Abdullah faction) or Shia Kashmir with Baltistan idea.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 17 Sep 2010 02:15

Finally Hindu starts calling a spade, a spade instead of digging tool!

Kashmir's new Islamist movement

Only thing is a seasoned observer like Pravin Swami calls it new Islamist movement? Was he looking other way while it was developing?

Leaders of the protests see street violence as a crucible in which a new generation of jihadists is being forged.

Last week, on the Monday before Eid, Mohammad Shafi Wani opened his grocery store in Srinagar's Karan Nagar neighbourhood. Each of his gestures —rolling up the shutter, dusting off the shelves, opening the long-locked cash till — was an act of defiance, perhaps even suicidal rashness.

Kashmir's Tehreek-e-Hurriyat, the anti-India Islamist coalition spearheading the protests that have claimed more than 80 lives in clashes with police this year, had decreed that shops would remain shut until 2:00 pm; Wani had opened for business at mid-day. “Get lost,” a local resident recalls Wani saying to two young men who showed up to warn him, “I'm not having a bunch of kids telling me what I can do.” The boys left — but returned with reinforcements. Wani ended up in hospital; the police watched him being beaten but did nothing.

Early this week, the Tehreek decreed that day would henceforth be night. It ordered that businesses and factories work through the hours of darkness to make up for the time spent protesting. Many fear that September 21, when the Tehreek-i-Hurriyat has called on volunteers to march on military outposts, will see horrific violence. That is precisely what the New Islamists seek: for them, Kashmir's streets are the crucible in which a new generation of jihadists, who will wage a this-time successful war for independence, are being forged.

Islamist patriarch Syed Ali Shah Geelani's Rudad-i-Qafas, or ‘Records of Jail,' an 800-page, two-volume reflection on politics and life written while he was incarcerated at New Delhi, Jammu and Allahabad from 1990-1992, gives some insight into the ideological underpinning of the street rebellion.

In a 2004 appraisal of the Rudad-i-Qafas, scholar Yoginder Sikand pointed to Mr. Geelani's concerns that the independence movement in Jammu and Kashmir had “actually gone out of the control of the political leadership and into the hands of militant youth who, though fired by a passionate sense of zeal, have little understanding of the problem as well as the uphill task of resolving it.” He argued that “the youth ought to have entered the movement under the leadership of a truly Islamic and honest political leadership.” Instead, Kashmir's young jihadists had acted “unfettered by any authority above them as if they have ‘sworn not to accept any political leadership at all'.”

“They have,” he concluded, “apparently miscalculated the enormity of the demands of the struggle and the strength of the power they are fighting against, fondly imagining that their goal would be achieved in no time.”

Pakistan's Inter-Services Intelligence, in the years that followed the publication of the Rudad-i-Qafas, threw its resources behind the Hizb-ul-Mujahideen — led, in the main, by figures drawn from the Jamaat-e-Islami. But as the conflict dragged, the Jamaat sensed defeat — and drew back. In 1997, the then Jamaat chief G.M. Bhat called for an end to the “gun culture.” Three years later, dissident Hizb commander Abdul Majid Dar declared a unilateral ceasefire. Although the ceasefire fell apart, the Jamaat itself continued to marginalise Mr. Geelani. In May 2003, Jamaat moderates led by Bhat's successor, Syed Nasir Ahmad Kashani, retired Mr. Geelani as their political representative. In January 2004, the Jamaat's Majlis-e-Shoora, or central consultative council, went public with a commitment to a “democratic and constitutional struggle.”

Mr. Geelani, cast out from the mainstream of the Jamaat, set about building a new political movement; the kind of political movement he believed had led to the failure of the jihad.

Like others in the Jamaat-e-Islami, Mr. Geelani had long believed India posed an existential threat to Islam in Kashmir. In the Rudad-e-Qafas, he castigated India for its failure to hold a plebiscite on Jammu and Kashmir's future; its violations of the democratic process; and its use of the armed force after 1989-1990. But he underlined the growth of Hindu communalism from the mid-1980s, seeing it as an enterprise to erase Islam. Mr. Geelani even found evidence of this enterprise in prison: the ‘martyrdom' of Muslim prisoners' beards at the hands of jailers and their being refused permission to pray. “Cultural hegemony,” he concluded, “is a logical culmination of political supremacy.”

From 2003, Mr. Geelani turned to a new group of lieutenants to fight India's growing “political supremacy”: among them lawyer Mian Abdul Qayoom, activists like Mehrajuddin Kalwal and Jamaat apparatchiks like Mohammad Ashraf Sehrai. It was Massrat Alam Bhat, however, who was to become the most important figure in the new Islamic coalition.

Born in old-city Srinagar's Zaindar Mohalla in July 1971, Bhat studied in Srinagar's élite Cecil Earle Tyndale-Biscoe school before joining the Sri Pratap college. He was first arrested by the Border Security Force in October 1990, on charges of serving as a lieutenant to the then-prominent jihadist Mushtaq Ahmad Bhat. He won a protracted legal battle in 1997 and began working at a cloth store owned by his grandfather, graduating the next year. From 1999, Bhat became increasingly active in the All-Parties Hurriyat Conference. He drew much of his core cadre from one-time jihadists who had been released — only to find they had neither prestige, power nor prospects.

Bhat's Muslim League Jammu Kashmir's objective, its website explains, “besides fighting Indian aggression, is to propagate Islamic teachings to fight out socialism and secularism to remove taguti [false leaders; traitors] rule and to extirpate the western ideology.”

Just two of the Muslim League's eight-point charter of objectives are, as such, concerned with the conflict in Jammu and Kashmir. It seeks the “building up of public opinion about the issue of Jammu and Kashmir on [the] international front,” and promises to “organise rallies and congregations to achieve the right to self-determination.”

But the bulk of the Muslim League's objectives centres around forging a new political culture. It promises to “inculcate [a] sense of religious duties, character building and make the youth politically conscious;” to “safeguard the youths against any anti-Islamic move;” “to make aware the Muslims about the policies and plans of the aggressors and ensure that they follow the path of the Quran and the Sunnah to become one entity; to resist “misinformation campaigns against [the] Islamic system on the part of various imperialistic forces;” and, more generally, “to work for the welfare of the people.”

Now serving a life sentence for the assassination of human rights campaigner H.N. Wanchoo, imprisoned jihadist Muhammad Qasim Faktoo was key to shaping Bhat's ideological vision. Faktoo, who acquired a doctorate in Islamic studies while in prison, founded his religious beliefs on the teachings of the neo-fundamentalist Jamiat Ahl-e-Hadith — not Mr. Geelani's Jamaat-e-Islami. Long an anti-India political activist, Faktoo was led into the Hizb by Mohammad Abdullah Bangroo who, many years later, presided over the assassination of the influential Srinagar cleric Mirwaiz Mohammad Farooq — father of the current chairperson of the APHC, Mirwaiz Umar Farooq. In 1990, Faktoo and Hilal Mir, better known by the code-name Nasir-ul-Islam, broke from the Hizb to form the Jamiat-ul-Mujahideen, upset with its linkages to the Jamaat-e-Islami.

{So the movementis mentored by one murder who in turn was mentored by another murderer! Why is Faktoo still not sentenced to death?}

From jail, the Jammu and Kashmir Police allege, Faktoo mentored a new generation of jihadists. The police say he inspires two organisations — the al-Nasireen and the Farzandan-e-Millat — responsible for the killings of officers last August and September. The name al-Nasireen, a reference to the companions of Prophet Mohammad, is thought to draw on the nom de guerre of Faktoo's Jamiat-ul-Mujahideen co-founder. Farzandan-e-Millat, or sons of the nation, mirrors that of the Dukhtaran-e-Millat, daughters of the nation, an organisation run by Faktoo's wife, Asiya Andrabi.

Ms Andrabi is the youngest child of the prominent Srinagar doctor, Sayeed Shahabuddin Andrabi. The 1962-born Ms Andrabi has an undergraduate degree in biochemistry, and hoped to study further in Dalhousie. Forbidden from leaving home, she turned to religion. From 1982, she set up a network of religious schools and campaigned against obscenity in popular television programming.

Both Bhat and Andrabi played a key role in organising protests against the grant of land-use rights to the Amarnath shrine board in 2008 — a communally-charged campaign that brought tens of thousands of people to the streets. The networks used then were patiently built over years, in the course of struggles against prostitution and alcohol-use; campaigns for the enforcement of social morality targeting western cultural practices; and human rights abuses by Indian security forces.

{So long time spent in building organization on small issues. I recall that when Amarnath Yatra protests were going on there was comment that it could be training ground for future militancy. Looks like its coming ture. yet why did omar Abdullah think he should get rid of AFSP when there was such a strong movement being built up? Who is the Home Minister? Did the state intelligence networks fail? Or a blind eye was turned by those in charge.}

In 1990, the Time Magazine carried an evocative account of the first uprising, the failure of which Mr. Geelani so evocatively wrote of: “‘Brave Kashmiris,' came the summons from loudspeakers in minarets throughout Srinagar, summer capital of the Indian state of Jammu and Kashmir, ‘the time has come to lay down your lives. Come out and face the occupation forces as true soldiers of Islam.' By the thousands, Muslim separatists answered the call last week. Enraged by the detention of 400 locals accused of terrorism, they surged through the narrow alleys of the decrepit city, chanting ‘Indian dogs, go home!' and pelting the police and soldiers with stones. Security forces replied first with tear gas, then with rifle fire. By the week's end, at least 133 people had been killed, nearly doubling, to 279, the death count since the latest round of trouble in Kashmir began 18 months ago.”

Those words could also be a prophecy of what lies ahead.

Again an abrupt ending to the article. What prophecy of murderers led by murderers? These guys will first kill all the moderates starting from NC and PDP. Is this what the Hindu wants?

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 17 Sep 2010 02:32

I say make artificial snow.
The Apples of Idunn will not grow. clicky

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 17 Sep 2010 03:48

Pioneer's Premen Addy writes

Islamism’s rage boys
September 17, 2010 4:08:56 AM

Premen Addy

It doesn't require genius to bring Kashmir’s jihadis to heel; a firm hand will do. Remember Shakespeare's words: Be bloody, bold and resolute

Fellow travellers of causes Left and Right have long been a political hazard. The occupant of the British throne, Edward VIII, was a Hitler sympathiser; other exalted Britons were under Mussolini’s spell because the Duce made Italy’s “trains run on time”. The eminent Cambridge economist Joan Robinson uttered rhapsodies to Chairman Mao’s Great Leap Forward and People’s Communes. She wrote a Penguin eulogy to the Cultural Revolution. Just before her death, Prof Robinson remarked plaintively that she had no understanding of China, Beijing having invaded Vietnam, in February 1979, “to teach it a lesson as India had been taught a lesson in 1962”. Things fell apart for a distinguished intellect.

The blood-dimmed tides were loosed, and everywhere the ceremony of innocence was drowned, as credible stories of a tragedy without parallel in human history began to emerge. Frank Dikotter’s deeply researched tome — Mao’s Great Famine: The History of China’s Most Devastating Catastrophe, 1958-62 estimates that 45 million people perished during those bitter years.

Today, sections of the British media, including the BBC, and a gaggle of Left-wing activists are, like many useful idiots before them, apologists, this time for Islamism and its burden of victimhood. They believe they are befriending the underdog.

In the aftermath of the London bombings of July 7, 2005, The Times’s Europe Correspondent, Anthony Browne, fired this broadside: “Islamic radicals, like Hitler, cultivate support by nurturing grievances against others. Islamists, like Hitler scapegoat Jews for their problems and want to destroy them... Hitler divided the world into Aryans and sub-human non-Aryans, while Islamists divide the world into Muslims and sub-human infidels. Nazis aimed for their Thousand Year Reich, while Islamists aim for their eternal Caliphate. The Nazi party used terror to achieve power, and from London to Amsterdam, Bali to New York (and Mumbai)... Islamists are trying to do the same... Even post-bombing, Britain has a long way to go in its understanding of Islamic fascism. The tragedy is that we start daring to understand it only when innocent lives are lost.”

These words should constitute a warning to the Indian establishment in their ritual hunts for the philosopher’s stone of political correctness even as the barbarians muster at the Kashmiri gate. VP Menon, Sardar Vallabhbhai Patel’s principal aide, apropos of the Pakistan-sponsored Pathan invasion of the Kashmir valley in October 1947, wrote of centuries-old descents into India of marauders from Central Asia. The first thing the new Islamic state of Pakistan had done was to repeat the exercise: Srinagar today, Delhi tomorrow, he warned. A nation that forgets its history and its geography will be condemned to suffer the fraught experience of its past. India cannot be afraid of its own shadow, concluded this wise servant of state, whose ripe wisdom India’s present guardians will ignore at their (and the country’s) peril.

Kashmir’s separatist jihadis have issued a primordial challenge to the Government in New Delhi: Their goal is the creation of an Islamic state complete with sharia’h: Death by stoning, beheadings, floggings, amputations and much else to follow in due course, including the mandatory burqa. The exalted musings of the Persian Sufi poet Rumi have not prevented the appearance of an Ayatollah-ruled Iran, so be warned. Hallucinogenic twaddle about human rights and governance is an opiate to dull the pain of Kashmir’s ultimate severance from the Indian body politic.

A disingenuous BBC radio programme involving the Corporation’s Srinagar stringer Altaf Hussain and anchor Julian Marshal was notable for stock cliches, elisions and evasions and myriad economies with the truth. Burning Christian schools and Government buildings are presumably an accepted spectator sport; police retaliation is an un-constitutional response. No mention was made of the ethnic cleansing of Kashmir’s Hindu Pandit community — theirs not to reason why, theirs but to do and die. Amy Kazmin, the Financial Times Delhi-based correspondent, wrote sourly of “de facto Army rule in Kashmir”, among a multitude of other Indian failings compared to the striking successes of the Chinese, Herrenvolk associates of the West.

For an antidote and restorative turn to Fidel Castro, who told his Atlantic magazine interviewer Jeffrey Goldberg that the Iranian Government should understand the consequences of theological anti-Semitism. “I don’t think anyone has been slandered as much as the Jews. I would say much more than the Muslims... they (the Jews) are blamed and slandered for everything. No one blames the Muslims for anything. The Jews have lived an existence that is much harder than ours. There is nothing that compares with the Holocaust,” said Fidel.

The late Nahum Goldman, Jewish patriarch extraordinary, in a newspaper article in 1979, a few years prior to his death, referred to the generosity of democratic and Communist nations towards the Jewish people after the defeat of Nazi Germany. He wrote: “To illustrate this, I quote the talk which Benes (the Czech leader and former President) had, on Chaim Weizmann’s (first President of Israel) and my request, with Stalin during the Second World War, asking for Russian support of a Jewish state. Stalin then answered him: ‘We know what the Jews suffered during the war and we will do our best to repair it’. ” And so it came to pass that the USSR voted for the creation of the state of Israel at the United Nations in November 1949. There is no good reason for Left-wing amnesia.

At the conclusion of a recent visit to Russia, the Israeli Defence Minister Ehud Barak told his hosts in Moscow: “We know the truth: The state of Israel would not exist if the Red Army had not defeated fascist Germany.” Russia and Israel have signed a landmark defence accord. Such news items do not as a rule find favour with Western agencies.

The writer and journalist Patrick Cockburn, a man of the Left, as it happens, writes: “The persecution of Christian communities across the Muslim world has escalated rapidly since the start of the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq.” The Christian population in West Asia has declined, he said. Mr Cockburn related the horrific case of a Pakistani Christian family, in the Punjabi town of Gojra, burned to death on the false rumour that that a local man had set fire to a copy of the Quran.

Zaid Hamid, a Pakistani defence analyst, much given to ranting at Zionist-Hindu conspiracies on television, roared recently of Pakistani nuclear retaliation against Israel and India, should either nation dare attack Pakistan. With floods and suicide bombers wreaking havoc, why should any country wish to undertake this unnecessary expense?

“A whiff of grapeshot” was Napoleon’s prescription for unruly mobs. It doesn’t require genius to bring the Kashmir jihadis to heel, a firm hand will do. Remember Shakespeare’s words: “Be bloody, bold and resolute.”

'

I think a firm hand is first needed with New Delhi' s paid rage boys in the media.

Hiten · Post by **Hiten** » 17 Sep 2010 04:19

OT
Ramana sir, could you please post the article with the URL. Especially helpful in case of the nightwatch reports

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 17 Sep 2010 04:32

Nightwatch has website. I dont know how to get the url for that particluar date. If its too much takleef then I wont post in future.

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 17 Sep 2010 04:39

NightWatch 14 September 2010

Hiten · Post by **Hiten** » 17 Sep 2010 04:47

No takleef at all. Please do post them

Thank you RajeshA

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 17 Sep 2010 04:47

At least, Valley terrorists are now being called with right name in media. That they are Islamist Wahabi Jihadi and onlee way to deal with them is make Daliya out of them

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 17 Sep 2010 06:03

The Kashmiris seem to be following the old downhill spiral - the resolution to all problems is more and more and more Islam. If they were rational, they would realize that India would never tolerate another possible Talibanic stronghold and shelter for all kinds of Islamic radicals and terrorists. Whatever the cost is, India cannot afford to let them succeed. So what we are going to end up with is a "lost generation" in Kashmir, where all education, entrepreneurship, economic progress, civil society, infrastructure and non-Muslim minorities will be sacrificed to the jihad.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 17 Sep 2010 06:33

IMHO, its is good news that they have turn islamist overtly. This provide the oppertunity to fix the problem right and be made example of for others to observe. Last time Islamist took this kind of Panga was under the reign of Auranga which ended the Moghul Empire . This will end Poakland as we know of.

Pranav · Post by **Pranav** » 17 Sep 2010 07:32

ramana wrote:Finally Hindu starts calling a spade, a spade instead of digging tool!

Kashmir's new Islamist movement

Last week, on the Monday before Eid, Mohammad Shafi Wani opened his grocery store in Srinagar's Karan Nagar neighbourhood. Each of his gestures —rolling up the shutter, dusting off the shelves, opening the long-locked cash till — was an act of defiance, perhaps even suicidal rashness.

Kashmir's Tehreek-e-Hurriyat, the anti-India Islamist coalition spearheading the protests that have claimed more than 80 lives in clashes with police this year, had decreed that shops would remain shut until 2:00 pm; Wani had opened for business at mid-day. “Get lost,” a local resident recalls Wani saying to two young men who showed up to warn him, “I'm not having a bunch of kids telling me what I can do.” The boys left — but returned with reinforcements. Wani ended up in hospital; the police watched him being beaten but did nothing.

This kind of abdication by the police of their responsibilities has been happening far too often under Omar Abdullah.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 17 Sep 2010 07:35

Might not be so high.

Have you seen a hartal? Its usually run by a bunch of goons who have been assured they wont be taken to task by the police. And this can happen at many levels.

Sanjay M · Post by **Sanjay M** » 17 Sep 2010 08:17

The prince speaks:

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/new ... 568970.cms

Rudradev · Post by **Rudradev** » 17 Sep 2010 08:46

Sanjay M wrote:The prince speaks:

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/new ... 568970.cms

Should make it obvious what gallery P. Chidambaram has been playing to in all this.

Pranav · Post by **Pranav** » 17 Sep 2010 09:24

ramana wrote:Might not be so high.

Have you seen a hartal? Its usually run by a bunch of goons who have been assured they wont be taken to task by the police. And this can happen at many levels.

Well, if the tacit support to the hooligans is coming from a lower level, then the charitable explanation is that Omar is being grossly incompetent.

merlin · Post by **merlin** » 17 Sep 2010 09:25

Here's one of the BRF's "favourite" so-called thinkers sucking upto baba

KASHMIR: AN OPEN LETTER TO RAHUL GANDHI

sum · Post by **sum** » 17 Sep 2010 09:38

Kashmir’s not for keeps

I had an interaction with some Kashmiri young men at Delhi this week. There was no doubting of their indignation and exasperation. The killings in the valley, more than 80 since the beginning of stone pelting in June, were very much on my mind and I wanted to know what could be done.

“Why don’t you leave us,” one said. Another was more specific: “We want azadi. Please include Muslim areas of Jammu and Ladakh.” This would come to about one crore or a little more. They said: “It is not the question of numbers but that of feeling. We just do not want to be part of India.” Yet another said: “We want to make it clear that we don’t want to be part of Pakistan either.” I vainly argued with them that how a country with one crore population would sustain itself without any help from India or Pakistan. “There is the entire Muslim world to help us,” they said. { The KMs have lost it completely}

This is what bothers me, I told them. The religion which you have brought to your protests shows clearly that you want to establish another Muslim state on India’s border.

What will be its repercussions in India which is trying its best to float above the waters of communalism and stay secular? All that they said in reply was: “We want azadi.”

I have not visited Kashmir for more than six months. Yet I have kept myself quite up to date by watching on television several incidents of stone pelting, burning of government buildings and firings by the security forces.

It looks as if the whole valley has come on to the streets, the angry young men leading the mob. Maybe, it is a particular group of people which is instigating them but whatever its number, it is a determined lot. And it would be foolhardy not to take into account their anguish, particularly of those who have lost their dear ones in the firings.

The government, particularly J&K chief minister Omar Abdullah, believes that the anger would be assuaged if the Armed Forces Special Power Act (AFSPA), which gives extraordinary powers to the military in a disturbed area, is amended suitably or abolished.

Prime minister Manmohan Singh’s remark — there was need to address issues of trust deficit and government performance — cannot remedy the situation. By shifting the responsibility of its follies to the ruling National Conference, the Centre is only proving that it has gone from one mistake to another, without realising that it would have to pay for them some day.

Every time the economic package or creation of youth employment is considered a panacea for all the troubles. The challenge from the days of Sheikh Abdullah to Omar Abdullah is how does New Delhi give Srinagar a sense of identity, without letting Kashmir to translate that status into independence?

Exploiting religion

That there is no alternative to the talks goes without saying. But the talks with the fundamentalists, who are in the forefront in the valley, will be difficult because they are the ones who excite the people in the name of religion. They have pushed the Kashmiriyat, into the background and brought fundamentalism to the fore. So much so, a fabricated news item saying that the Holy Quran was burnt in America cost 14 lives.

Yet New Delhi has to separate these elements from those who want to rule democratically and in a pluralistic way. But this does not mean that India has all the time to sort out who are fundamentalists but parade to be democratic. Ultimately, it depends on what New Delhi is willing to offer in terms of political power.

The prime minister is willing to go to any limits within the constitution. Good enough if there is a solution within the constitution. But if it is not possible, it should not matter if the terms of agreement go beyond the constitution. Delhi should be ready to give back whatever subjects it may have taken beyond defence, foreign affairs and communications, the three subjects which Srinagar gave New Delhi when the state acceded to the Union.

The BJP is the biggest impediment. It has politicised the issue and refurbished parochialism. At the back of its mind is Hindutva philosophy which, it believes, cannot cope with a Muslim-majority state.

Where did the BJP land into the scene of some Islamic freaks demanding a Islamic state?

The first few lines show that even the WKKs are seeing the writing on the wall : that the KMs have crossed the point of no return and are slowly turning into Islamic fanatics... Good that the true colors of "Islamic state with muslim regions of Jammu and Ladakh with islamic nations helping us out" funda is slowly becoming mainstream...

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 17 Sep 2010 09:41

Cognitive dissonance. They cant belie that their favorite oppressed people are Islamiss. All that Sufi kashmiriyat claptrap is taqqiya.

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 17 Sep 2010 09:48

Sanku wrote:Is Great Bong a BRFite? If not, I on the behalf of all webmasters and moderators by the powers not quite vested upon me declare him a honorary BRFite.

http://greatbong.net/2010/09/16/more-on ... d-kashmir/

I had invited him to visit B-R some moons ago.