J & K news and discussion

[ramana]

CRS, Please tone down your posts. I see a pattern in other threads. Its good to be angry but in control. As Patekar says Control!

PS: Dont want banning.

[Hari Seldon]

As long as no permanent damage is done - like signing or agreeing to give away our claim to cashmere, all this nautanki is == teacup wala storm only. GoI getting called for its cowardice and weakness is excellent news, actually.

The worry is a perceived weakness in Dilli's knees will, invariably, embolden every other stripe and shade of seditionist, secessionist, insurgent and traitor to ply his trade in Dilli.

Consider, what's tomorrow to stop Irom Sharmila from doing the same w.r.t. manipur in Dilli? Or that Muiviah goon? Statements to the effect that "What I'm saying here in Delhi today, untold 1000s say everyday in manipur/Nagaland... etc etc". You can see where this will go.

That is what worries me.

[brihaspati]

B, why feel so sad, if you are not clear about what you want and are not clear about the nature of the Indian state then it is not the states fault if you get taken for a ride.

So if the KV KM Students get betrayed then they get what what they deserve.

They remind me of Koop Mandook. Thinking that they are the center of the universe. When theis existence is just a samll dot on the face of this earth.

JMT

Pratyush ji,
that comment was made with a purpose in mind. Hoping that it gets across to KVM. Maybe coming from me it is not that credible. Some "genuine" sympathizer would do a better job!

[Jarita]

Thanksfully not all are dhimmis in Bollywood.

Gul Panag seemed quite upset with writer and activist Arundhati Roy, who claimed in an interview that Kashmir was never an integral part of India.

'Dear Arundati, please do tell us which state was/is an integral part of India?Punjab?Mysore?Hyderabad Mysore?Do also define integral. Thanks,' she tweeted.

Enough dhimmis though
Some actress called Konkona whatever is supporting the mental patient. Jumping on bandwagon to lick the crumbs.

[Jarita]

There is a whole breed of women in India/of Indian origin that wear their anti nationalism and hatred for all things indic on the sleeve. They are all over the internet/media. These women are handpicked and rewarded for their vitriol against indic civilization.
This is social engineering gone successful because one does not have to use carrot and stick with such women all the time. Given high emotions they are already bought into the narrative. Of course, don't bother with logic or facts here.
You'll see this more and more.

[Gagan]

I hope that the law which lays down the definition of an act of sedition is precise and crystal clear.

I have a feeling that it is not, which is why the government is stepping in to interpret it. The lady has the Geelani character tagging along this time, and GoI will NOT go hard against Geelani, as we've seen before.

Geelani is a useful idiot who has to be kept alive until he meets his 72 the natural way, he must not and will not be allowed to become a martyr.

It would appear that GoI is displaying its magnanimity by condoning this extreme act, it is a form of CBM by GoI.

It is a different matter that if some ordinary person from some small town had said something half as much serious, the local cops would have whitewashed him/her and put him behind bars. But this is the bhookar prize winning dame, with human right wing scandinavians as her gurdian angels.

The one solution I can see is for patriotic youth wings (note: no saffron otherwise the usual allegations will follow) to gherao her peacefully and educate her on the basics of patriotism. All Gandhian only.

[CRamS]

CRS, Please tone down your posts. I see a pattern in other threads. Its good to be angry but in control. As Patekar says Control!

PS: Dont want banning.

No problem Saar. But I think an inocuous comment pointing out how others might have treated an A'Roy counterpart does not necessarly mean I advocae the same treatment of her. She is best ignored than making her a larger than life icon should there be any incarceration of her for the poison she spreads.

[VikramS]

Even in India, someone like Suzzana would have been shot to death if her target of attack were not Hindus. By couching her se(a)distic India hatred in caste terms, she is playing on the caste fissures, and hence escapes a concerted Hindu retaliation.

CRS,

....

If its the second instance it would mean you admire the way Muslims solve their problems (by shooting people to death when they say inconvenient things) and at the same time you are lamenting on the cowardice of Hindus for not being able to get people like A Roy shot.

Boss, please don't score self goals. I know you're angry but so are we all.

When I study Indians, I see the element of self-preservation missing. One basic truth is that you have to adapt your ideals to what you deal with.

SAR supports Islamists who give absolutely no regards to the freedoms and rights she is now tom-tomming. Why should Indians allow her the freedom to weaken the state when she has no respect for it?

Like the selective use of war, selective use of violence too has its place in statecraft. The Chinese, the Taleban and even the Americans use it when it serves a clear and well defined purpose.

When it came to dealing with the three ring-leaders of 9-11, the Americans did not wait for any court. They met their 72 under unnatural circumstances; an air-crash, a car-crash and one actually died of thirst. Compromise on those ideals is sometime necessary.

SAR should be sent to a special jail constructed on Siachin or some other post which gets regular TSPA shelling. She should be kept in an open cage type cell. That way she perhaps she will develop some appreciation for the actions of the soldiers she tramples upon without a thought.

Indians need to realize that they need to respond to what others do; not to what others talk. Talk is cheap; action speaks for itself.

[Prem]

I met young stone pelters who had been shot through their eyes.

Possible?

Make it, Arrange it and fulfill the wish.

[ramdas]

Unfortunately, democracy in our country has been misinterpreted to mean that anti-nationals like Dhoti Roy, Geelani etc can bray aloud. We must emulate China when it comes to dealing with such traitors. If the law does not allow the govt. to do this through legal channels, the security agencies must be given a free hand to ensure their silence through "other means" (with no options ruled out). Surely, the security agencies should be competent enough to pull such a thing off. It will have a salutary effect on wannabe traitors. Dealing ruthlessly with such elements is a must in order to preserve order in society and national integrity. This is one aspect where it would be worthwhile to emulate, say, the former East Germany at its most ruthless...

[aditya]

ramdas... eerm, yeah, I think you should withdraw your above post which is frankly reckless and irresponsible (let's leave out ethics for now...)

Besides, what would stop the "silencing" of legitimate dissent using these "other means"? Remember Deendayal Upadhyay?

[CRamS]

TSP is thrilled with Suzzana Roy. Kudos to Dileep Padgaonkar too.

[TonyMontana]

Unfortunately, democracy in our country has been misinterpreted to mean that anti-nationals like Dhoti Roy, Geelani etc can bray aloud. We must emulate China when it comes to dealing with such traitors. If the law does not allow the govt. to do this through legal channels, the security agencies must be given a free hand to ensure their silence through "other means" (with no options ruled out). Surely, the security agencies should be competent enough to pull such a thing off. It will have a salutary effect on wannabe traitors. Dealing ruthlessly with such elements is a must in order to preserve order in society and national integrity. This is one aspect where it would be worthwhile to emulate, say, the former East Germany at its most ruthless...

Does the pros of Indian democracy outweigh the cons? If you know the answer to this question, you'll know the answer to yours.

[ramana]

Tony beta so long as you post on external matters its OK. Don't cross the line and post on internal affairs of India.

Thanks for observing the guest rules/maryada/

ramana

[amit]

CRS,

....

If its the second instance it would mean you admire the way Muslims solve their problems (by shooting people to death when they say inconvenient things) and at the same time you are lamenting on the cowardice of Hindus for not being able to get people like A Roy shot.

Boss, please don't score self goals. I know you're angry but so are we all.

When I study Indians, I see the element of self-preservation missing. One basic truth is that you have to adapt your ideals to what you deal with.

SAR supports Islamists who give absolutely no regards to the freedoms and rights she is now tom-tomming. Why should Indians allow her the freedom to weaken the state when she has no respect for it?

Like the selective use of war, selective use of violence too has its place in statecraft. The Chinese, the Taleban and even the Americans use it when it serves a clear and well defined purpose.

When it came to dealing with the three ring-leaders of 9-11, the Americans did not wait for any court. They met their 72 under unnatural circumstances; an air-crash, a car-crash and one actually died of thirst. Compromise on those ideals is sometime necessary.

SAR should be sent to a special jail constructed on Siachin or some other post which gets regular TSPA shelling. She should be kept in an open cage type cell. That way she perhaps she will develop some appreciation for the actions of the soldiers she tramples upon without a thought.

Indians need to realize that they need to respond to what others do; not to what others talk. Talk is cheap; action speaks for itself.

Boss,

Admirable sentiments but I think you are falling into the trap which A Roy has set up. Let me explain.

When you compare her to the ring leaders of 9-11 you are – in her wrapped worldview – putting her on a pedestal. And by doing so you transform a person who’s nothing but a polished rabble rouser – the type which all political parties employ - into someone much more important.

I suspect she knows exactly what the real situation is and she is deliberately indulging in provocations to get the Govt to react. Look at her follow up statement, she hit all the key buttons – the plight of Pandits and the preposterous allegation that Dalit soldiers are sent to fight the Muslims in Kashmir and then the dead soldiers bodies are dumped in rubbish heaps. I don’t think even Mayawati would say some thing like that.

Why is she doing this? I have a theory.

If you look at this one book wonder, her only way to limelight is through publicity, negative or otherwise. I believe her latest move is well calculated. She knows that even if the Govt sends her to jail she’d be there at the max of, what two weeks? And that too in best possible facilities. Like it or not India is not China and so it would be impossible to lock her up indefinitely. If we were that kind of country, she wouldn't have made the statement in the first place. [And yes I'm glad we're not that kind of country, and I'm sure all jingoes here are too].

During those two weeks a lot of other rabble rousers would have a field day spewing verbal diarrhea in print and TV, it would become one of the top news items. She’d become a tragic-queen - an image of herself, I suspect, she harbours.

Now this would coincide very nicely with Ombaba’s visit and the attendant media attraction it would offer in the Western media, which is A Roy’s maai baap. When some bored Western journalist is asked by his/her editor to look at India to do some “curtain-raisers” what a juicy story this would be: “Booker Prize winning celebrity author sent to jail for talking about the aspirations of the Kashmiri people.”

These stupid journalists and their readers/listeners wouldn't know or care that Hindus, Buddhists and patriotic Muslims far outnumber the small group of scum bags in the Valley who are fighting the proxy war for Pakistan.

This would have two effects, me thinks.

One it would willy nilly push Kashmir to the limelight during Ombaba’s visit, something I suspect both sides would like to avoid. And secondly it would ensure that A Roy gets regular pay checks from Western Media outlets where she would spew her zillion word vomit on the idea of India. She would emerge from prison as a martyr and would wear it as a badge of honour and write about the "horrors of India" which suppresses Maoist and Muslim terrorists (who kill innocent people). I bet she'd have a key sentence in every piece of shit she would have written, some thing like: "During my time in prison I reflected on the wrongs of this country.... etc"

No, the more I think of it, it is best to just ignore her. The best course of action is: A Roy who? Can’t seem to recall the name.

[sum]

Letter in the Chindu:

Ms Roy might have touched a raw nerve by saying Kashmir was never an integral part of India. However, there is a need for the majority community to introspect how it treats the minorities in their day-to-day life. Many people do not entertain the members of the minority community as tenants, do not offer them job opportunities, and do not interact with them socially. Individually, we may be secular and as a nation we may be better than the rest of the world in our equation with the minorities. But we are not the angels we make ourselves out to be. That the Pandits were driven out of Kashmir is no reason to condemn the entire minority population.

R. Vijaykumar,

Chennai

Still trying to figure out the connection between the contents of the letter and the subject of the letter ( reply on A.Roy's remarks on J&K)

[amit]

On the subject of Goddess of inane gimmicks I remember this very interesting comment about her by Jagdish Bhagwati:

Jagdish Bhagwati: Globalization can be looked at from the perspective of two sets of issues in the public domain. First, I believe that it is desirable that India participate in the world economy in a much deeper way than it has done do far. Second, of course is the broader question that transcends India: whether the economic globalization that is steadily going on along many dimensions such as trade and direct foreign investment flows is desirable or whether it is a malign force, as alleged by anti-globalization critics, among them our very own Arundhati Roy. Her writings on the subject are so devoid of intellectual content that one can only remark wittily that her conclusions are more obvious than her arguments.

Clicky



It's interesting how A Roy's interest shift with times. First it was Narmada and big dams. Then it was globalisation, now its Maoist and Kashmiri Sepearatists. I wonder what it would be next?

Ms Roy, why don't you write another book? I'm sure we'll all enjoy reading it.


Added later:

Here's another one by Bhagwati Sir:

I believe that policymakers in most countries see the benefits from globalization, despite the populist attacks on globalization by some economists like Joseph Stiglitz, the Nobel laureate, whose conclusions are more obvious than his arguments, and fiction writers turned globalization's critics like Arundhati Roy whom I saw on American television - believe it or not, addressing the American Sociological Association - with a big flower in her disheveled hair, uttering the largest number of cliches, stereotypical denunciations of imperialism, neo-liberalism, globalization, the Empire and the like, per minute that I have heard from anyone! She reminded me of the brilliantly caustic writer Gita Mehta whose collection of essays, titled Karma Cola, is an amusing documentation of the revenge exacted by Indians on the colonizing West!

[negi]

Amit nice spin; in fact once can also argue that there are too many of 'lets ignore it/her' types in our country and that explains the state of affairs today. She is not merely writing/voicing opinions but actually WORKING with likes of Vara Vara Rao, SAR, Geelani and who's who's of Indian extremist world one cannot simply IGNORE such people.

[abhishek_sharma]

I believe that policymakers in most countries see the benefits from globalization, despite the populist attacks on globalization by some economists like Joseph Stiglitz, the Nobel laureate, whose conclusions are more obvious than his arguments, ...

Really?

[amit]

Amit nice spin; in fact once can also argue that there are too many of 'lets ignore it/her' types in our country and that explains the state of affairs today.

If you think that's a spin, why don't you suggest what should be done in this case and how that would help? Or where my analysis went wrong?

Perhaps I can learn something new from you? I'm always willing to learn!

Added later:

Aha I see you added this to your post:

She is not merely writing/voicing opinions but actually WORKING with likes of Vara Vara Rao, SAR, Geelani and who's who's of Indian extremist world one cannot simply IGNORE such people.

I've got no disagreement on this point and I also think that something needs to be done about her. But IMO the way to do it is to catch her red handed at some activity/action. Locking her up for a few weeks for a seditious speech IMO plays into her hands.

I firmly believe that she associates with these anti-nationals/terrorists not out of any ideological convictions but because that's the way she can stay in the limelight. I don't think the lady is normal, meaning I'm sure she's got some psychological disorders which compels her to try and stay in the limelight. If she had ideological convictions she wouldn't have jumped from one issue to another like a butterfly.

Do you see her talking today about Big Dams, or globalisation? These issues have become unfashionable and hence have been discarded by her as last seasons styles.

[amit]

I believe that policymakers in most countries see the benefits from globalization, despite the populist attacks on globalization by some economists like Joseph Stiglitz, the Nobel laureate, whose conclusions are more obvious than his arguments, ...

Really?

Boss,

I posted that para for the quote on A Roy. Why miss the woods for the trees? Look also at the date/year that interview took place.

[abhishek_sharma]

^ I know. It is unfortunate that Jagdish Bhagwati is taking on Stiglitz. Because I think they are essentially on the same side.

A Roy is in different league *sigh*

[Rahul Mehta]

... If the law does not allow the govt. to do this through legal channels, the security agencies must be given a free hand to ensure their silence through "other means" (with no options ruled out). ..

Ramdas,

Think of what SCjs have done on Amit Shah, Vanzara and Company. Vanzara saheb and 4 other IPS saheb have been in prison for 3-4 years for using "other means" on Soharabbhai. And now Amit Shah saheb is also in prison. Now please answer following question :

1. Say you were an IPS officer
2. Say CM/PM gives you an oral order to use "other means" on a criminal (criminal can be person like AR or a tax-evader or or NPA creator or a corrupt Neta-babu-judge or a terrorist or a gangster etc)
3. would do YOU use other means?

Pls do think of what SCjs have done on Amit Shah, Vanzara and Company before you post honest answer.

Aristotle told me that in politics, one MUST answer question he asks, or he is wasting time. So I will answer this question : I will ask CM\PM to get written court order to use "other means" or ask PM\CM to take a hike.

===

In any case, I dont support use of "other means". I propose 3 procedures : "Trial by Jury", "Right to Recall PM, CM" etc and "Narco test in public, Fines, Imprisonment and/or Execution by Majority Vote". These procedures are sufficient to deal with scums like AR, Geelani etc. A side-effect these two procedures will also take heavy toll of all tax evaders, corrupt Neta-babu-judges etc. That is an OST topic.

===

AR, PD are doing what MMS paid/asked them to do. I dont know why BRites are shying away from fact that AR, PD are just dummies used by ventriloquist Mahatma MMS (aka Sant MMS aka MMS IMFwala aka Viceroy (*) MMS aka Prime Minister MMS) . Pls stop looking at AR, PD dummies and pls focus on REAL culprit - MMS

==

* -- To admins : Pranav et al have referred MMS as Viceroy MMS. I am not complaining, in fact, I thank for for giving me this nick name. Pranav got no warning and so I am assuming that calling MMS as Viceroy MMS is OK for BR-admins. Correct me if I am wrong. If "Viceroy MMS" words are unBR, I would delete this post myself. I dont want to get warning again for petty things.

[amit]

A Roy is in different league *sigh*

A Roy is not in any league at all. She's a buffoon who was born with a gift of the gab (or pen if you prefer) and she is exploiting that to the hilt to stay in the limelight to fan her megalomania.

You've seen her "intellectual" understanding about the issues of globalisation. I remember - sorry don't have a link on this - during the Narmada Andolan, she was once asked how electricity would be generated which was essential to raise the living standards of poor people. She made a stupid comment about building a hazar small dams (I'm pretty sure she was thinking of the title of her book!). Issues like whether such a move would be financial viable, whether there were sufficient number of geographical locations to make that possible or the ecological impact of that were simply out of her understanding.

Being a good writer doesn't make you an intellectual heavyweight.

[wig]

meanwhile, Jammu celebrates Accession Day BJP, local parties hold functions;
curiously enough Congress stays away

Jammu stressed its integration with India by celebrating the 63rd anniversary of the Instrument of Accession Day with much pomp and show today. But, notably, the Congress stayed away from the celebrations with no function organised by it today. The National Flag was hoisted at about 40 places by political, religious, social and apolitical organisations. They also organised seminars, debates and functions to underline the accession of Jammu and Kashmir to India this day in 1947.

The day began with a massive rally by schoolchildren which began from Mubarak Mandi, passed through Pucca Danga, Panj tirthi, Shalamar Garden and various bazaars of the old city before culminating back there. Children carried placards and banners hailing the day as ‘Vijay Diwas’ or ‘Accession Day’.

A senior Congress leader, wishing not to be identified, said there was no need to celebrate the day as there was no requirement to insist on the accession of Jammu and Kashmir to India. “It is a fact and there was no need to insist on it,” he said and added the party leadership took decisions in such matters.

Notable in the functions and processions was the active participation of women, who despite a fast on the occasion of Karva Chauth today, showed solidarity with the nation. Shakuntala, a woman activist of an organisation, said when soldiers could fight the enemy in extreme circumstances, they could at least walk a few kilometres on an empty stomach in ‘service of the motherland’.

Dineshwar Jamwal of the Duggar Vikas Manch, which made the 64-kg ladoo and later in the evening illuminated Mubarak Mandi with candles and torchlights, said they would make a 650-kg ladoo on the occasion next year.

“The celebration idea began after anti-India speeches and statements coming from Srinagar directly questioned the state’s integrity with India. This is a reply from Jammu that we are an integral part of India,” said Jamwal.

The 64-kg ladoo made by the Pehalwaan di Hatti was decorated with dry fruits, making a figure of 64. It was transported in an open auto-rickshaw.

Sat Abrol, owner of the Pehalwaan di Hatti, said five persons made the material for the ladoo. It was assembled and decorated in the auto-rickshaw only, where it was carefully placed on a silver foil.

The BJP had put banners in several parts of the old city, besides on chowks in the new city. The banners proclaimed celebrations of Accession Day. The Tricolour was hoisted at several places, as also at Shahidi Chowk. It organised the main function at RS Pura where all MLAs and senior leaders participated. State party president Shamsher Singh Manhas said the accession of the state was legal and final and the BJP would never let a further division of the country.

The Panun Kashmir hoisted the National Flag at the Dogra Chowk. Speakers, including Ajay Chrungoo, Chairman of the Panun Kashmir, said the accession restored the continuity of the state with the civilisation of India.

Another Panun Kashmir organisation led by Dr Agnishekhar organised a seminar today which coincided with the 335th Prayaan Divas of Pandit Kripa Ram Dutt. A seminar “Conspiracy to Distort the Truth of Accession” was addressed by Dr KK Pangotra, Dr Jeetinder Singh, BS Salathia, a former president of the Bar Association, Jammu.

The Panthers Party organised rallies and functions not only in Jammu but also in Leh, Poonch, Rajouri, Kishtwar, Doda, Ramban, Udhampur and Kathua.

Prof Bhim Singh, Chairman of the party, demanded the release of all political prisoners arrested under the Public Safety Act unconditionally on Accession Day. Maintaining that the accession of Jammu and Kashmir to India was “full and final”, the Jammu Bar Association celebrated the day on the court premises.

http://www.tribuneindia.com/2010/20101027/j&k.htm#2

[amit]

For those clamouring for her arrest, here's a report with some details on the reactions to her one day arrest on the directions of the Supreme Court for contempt of court in 2002 during the Narmada Andolan time.

In this celebrated David-versus-Goliath struggle of modern India, the diminutive Roy (157 centimeters, or 5 feet 2 inches, tall) this week served a one-day jail sentence in Delhi's Tihar jail imposed on her by the "tyrannical" Supreme Court, which found her guilty of riminal contempt of court. Had she not paid a fine of 2,000 rupees ($40) imposed on her by the apex court, as she had earlier threatened not to, she would have had to spend another three months in prison.{You see she knows exactly how much she needs to do. She knows that there's a law of diminishing returns as far has staying in jail is concerned so she promptly paid up, despite saying she wouldn't}

The Supreme Court convicted the 41-year-old writer on Wednesday for "scandalizing" the court, "lowering its dignity" and for attempting to damage the institution of the judiciary by her statements.

"The judgment only confirms what I said in my affidavit. It is a sad realization for me, because I feel the Supreme Court of India is an important institution and the citizens of India have high expectations from it," Roy said just before being taken to jail.

The contempt charges arose out of Roy's criticisms of a Supreme Court judgment in October 2000 that gave the go-ahead for the building of a controversial dam in the Narmada River valley. She took part in a protest against the controversial project in December, alongside other environmental campaigners.

In a petition filed against her the day after the demonstration, a group of lawyers claimed that she had shouted abusive slogans outside court and had behaved like a "thug". Roy then issued her own affidavit, describing the petition as "absurd" and "despicable" and she was then promptly charged with contempt by the Supreme Court.

And the international reactions to a one-day arrest:

Her incarceration has been strongly condemned by writers and activists throughout the world. More than 300 members of the Italian parliament wrote to the president of India, K R Narayanan, conveying their support and saying that "the Italian people who read and support Arundhati Roy ... appreciate the nobility of the political, moral and literary commitment".

Celebrated US intellectual and and writer Noam Chomsky, too, conveyed his support for Roy and expressed "great admiration for her courage". Also, a group of writers from the United States, including Toni Morrison and Harold Printer, along with actor Harrison Ford, have urged Narayanan to reject the charges against Roy.

Commenting on the arrest of Roy and the Supreme Court decision, Medha Patkar, head of Narmada Andolan, said, "Justice has been buried but people are still alive." The supporters of Roy kept vigil in front of the jail throughout the night and presented flowers to her on her release. They carried placards saying such things as "Apex court must be accountable", "Can truth scandalize the court" and "Condemn communalism, not criticism". Her supporters also took out a symbolic "funeral procession of justice".

I know Negi would think I'm spinning this but IMO I think she's looking for an action replay on a bigger scale from this latest confrontation, all nicely dovetailing with Ombaba's visit.

And her arguments are also similar:

Roy said that the decision to take her to court was no accident. "I think it is to do with an ancient fear of writers," she said. "I think the clarity of what you are saying is threatening."

Compare that with her latest: Pity the nation that has to silence its writers

Do you see a pattern?

[negi]

Well I had always maintained that APHC should have been disbanded and Geelani,Malik and other terrorist turned so called leaders tried for their crimes (we had likes of Sanjay Dutt making trips to HC for keeping AKs these mofos were directly involved in coordinating attacks against KPs and now they are instigating stone pelters, I am sure we can have at least half a dozen cases registered against each of them and keep them busy for rest of their lives ). Also this whole process of letting militants return to normal life is a risky business specially when they overnight take to politics and start poisoning the minds of the locals. No other country would have given VIP treatment to such snakes (both used to visit TSP frequently in fact Malik got married somewhere in TSP), I mean what constitutional post does Geelani hold to live a lavish life on tax payer's money (this is simply unconstitutional) ?

If I were to make a list of unconstitutional conduct/acts and put a name against it; GoI would top the list, when the enforcer of constitution itself takes liberty to act outside of the constitution we land up in a mess like J&K.

[VikramS]

amit:
We all know who these leftist, liberals are. These are people who come from privileged upper middle class background, who thanks to their background could screw around for a decade or more in some humanities stream in some leftist joint. There they realize that it pays to be articulate and criticize India. The more self-loathing you indulge in the higher you go; if you are really good you might just end up getting some gora award or fellowship. Very rarely do people pursue these careers because of an intense love; most could not compete in the harder subjects but realized that the one eyed could lead the blind.

I frankly do not care about the motivations of these scum; all I am concerned about the damage they cause and the weakness of the Indian state they convey to other parties. I also know that at their core, these people are cowards of the highest order; one kick in the right place and they will line up without thinking twice.

What bothers me is that if you talk to an average Indian he will echo the spirit of live and let live; compromise and adjustment. However very few have an idea that the force they are dealing with treats that as a sign of weakness. This lack of understanding about the competition is what scares me. A civilization which does not recognize that you have to deal with your competition at the level the competition understands is at risk of subjugation by autocratic forces.

[Sudip]

amit:
Very rarely do people pursue these careers because of an intense love; most could not compete in the harder subjects but realized that the one eyed could lead the blind.

Looks like most BRFites are in engineering onleeee

[amit]

amit:
We all know who these leftist, liberals are. These are people who come from privileged upper middle class background, who thanks to their background could screw around for a decade or more in some humanities stream in some leftist joint. There they realize that it pays to be articulate and criticize India. The more self-loathing you indulge in the higher you go; if you are really good you might just end up getting some gora award or fellowship. Very rarely do people pursue these careers because of an intense love; most could not compete in the harder subjects but realized that the one eyed could lead the blind.

I frankly do not care about the motivations of these scum; all I am concerned about the damage they cause and the weakness of the Indian state they convey to other parties. I also know that at their core, these people are cowards of the highest order; one kick in the right place and they will line up without thinking twice.

What bothers me is that if you talk to an average Indian he will echo the spirit of live and let live; compromise and adjustment. However very few have an idea that the force they are dealing with treats that as a sign of weakness. This lack of understanding about the competition is what scares me. A civilization which does not recognize that you have to deal with your competition at the level the competition understands is at risk of subjugation by autocratic forces.

Vikram,

I have no disagreement with the points you raise, in fact I agree that it's about time the GoI grows a pair and shows the world that it has indeed grown that pair.

However, I think going after a nitwit like A Roy is not the way to show it. If it were left to me, I'd have gone after the Chinis for the stapled visa issue. All diplomatic contact suspended and all Chinese companies banned form India till the issues was rectified. Simultaneously I'd have stapled visas for people from Tibet or north western China visiting India.

I'd have the GoI telling Ombaba's advanced delegation that any mention of the K word and Indian interlocutors would walk out of the room. I'd have Antony telling whom ever he talks to from the Amir Khan side that your planes just lost the race because they were $2 billion more expensive than the other planes. There are other ways and means to show toughness and god knows India so far has been an abject failure on this front - at least in the public eye (we don't know what goes on behind doors).

But to reiterate going after a light weight like A Roy is counter productive and just gives her the attention and importance she craves for. IMVHO of course.

[negi]

Her incarceration has been strongly condemned by writers and activists throughout the world. More than 300 members of the Italian parliament wrote to the president of India, K R Narayanan, conveying their support and saying that "the Italian people who read and support Arundhati Roy ... appreciate the nobility of the political, moral and literary commitment".

This is where a State needs to act promptly i.e. MEA should right away publicly condemn such an act from a foreign country which amounts to interfering in internal matters of another country. A directive be given for withdrawal of the letter and a formal apology, Italy-Shitly cannot afford to risk their trade relations with India over A Roy and her gimmicks and hence record needs to be set straight from day one.

Celebrated US intellectual and and writer Noam Chomsky, too, conveyed his support for Roy and expressed "great admiration for her courage". Also, a group of writers from the United States, including Toni Morrison and Harold Printer, along with actor Harrison Ford, have urged Narayanan to reject the charges against Roy.

They are not citizens of India nor do they represent any foreign government i.e. let the dogs bark.

Commenting on the arrest of Roy and the Supreme Court decision, Medha Patkar, head of Narmada Andolan, said, "Justice has been buried but people are still alive." The supporters of Roy kept vigil in front of the jail throughout the night and presented flowers to her on her release. They carried placards saying such things as "Apex court must be accountable", "Can truth scandalize the court" and "Condemn communalism, not criticism". Her supporters also took out a symbolic "funeral procession of justice".

[/quote]
Fire tenders be dispatched to chase the jhollahwallahs their ilk is adept in receiving lathis , a cracked rib or two would reform them for life.

I know Negi would think I'm spinning this but IMO I think she's looking for an action replay on a bigger scale from this latest confrontation, all nicely dovetailing with Ombaba's visit.

And he better be prepared for a more assertive India for that is what Bushwa told him before Obama took over . If separatists and their supporters think that they can exploit Obama's visit to score some brownie points the State should be able to ot manuever them , ignoring them and letting them go on with their plan is not the way forward.

[amit]

amit:
Very rarely do people pursue these careers because of an intense love; most could not compete in the harder subjects but realized that the one eyed could lead the blind.

Looks like most BRFites are in engineering onleeee

Most of the hawks in our security establishment including Bismapita didn't read the hard subjects.

BTW does architecture fall under the hard subjects category?

I ask this because our celebrated Goddess of Inane Rants was a student of architecture. Of course don't know if she was a good student or average!

[amit]

wrote...

And all this to what purpose? To arrest a Bimbo?

Do you notice that already A Roy has moved away from the media limelight one or two days after her seditious statement? Why would you want to do something that kept her continuously in the limelight, getting the Burqha Dutt types in a tizzy?

In Bengali we have a saying (which I'm sure you're aware of being ex-Kolkata). The English translation is: Don't use a hammer to kill a mosquito.

[negi]

And all this to what purpose? To arrest a Bimbo?

No ; this is about arresting a bimbo who thought its fashionable to share stage with extremists, pass remarks which challenge the writ of the State in the name of freedom of speech it is a message to her fraternity and other wannabes that 'red line' does exist.

It is even more important for India to express its dissatisfaction by official channels against countries which attempt to slip in their agenda in the garb of supporting free speech/liberty and such tripe, one cannot have good relations with such countries if we continue to not react to their cutzpah we needn't go down the Cheena route but getting cornered too is not done.

[Raghavendra]

Too much freedom of speech in India http://in.news.yahoo.com/43/20101026/81 ... india.html

[VikramS]

amit:

My comment about the leftist liberals was more general and not specific to AR. Most of these people come from a background of relative privilege. Most of them spend their lives as cost centers (living off family wealth or investment; heck most of these leftists infested centers are funded by tax-payers), and very few have had the need or the pressure, to deliver, in their lives. T

SAR basically led a life of a vagabond; running away from home, living in slums, then a beach bum in Goa, then PK's muse/girl-friend/wife. I had met PK and his children way back in the late 80s on a long bus trip; the bus was received by none other than SAR when she was not so famous. This was about the time Annie came out. Come to think of it, I also know Shudda Sengupta @ Kafila from school who also happened to speak in the same event in Delhi as Geelani.

In my travels around the world, and my interaction with different cultures, I have realized that Indians allow too much latitude to anti-state forces. This is especially true of the so called intellectuals (whether it is the Maoist supporters or the Islamist lovers) who are given an enormous space to operate in. There is absolutely no need for the Indian state to tolerate these anti-state forces. Kick a few, and the rest will line up.

[abhishek_sharma]

Don’t pity us, Arundhati – not yet

http://blogs.timesofindia.indiatimes.co ... ti-not-yet

I disagree with the effortless branding of Kashmir as “one of the most brutal military occupations in the world” – it is not pleasant, today, I am sure, but from 1948 to say, at least 1988, a period of well over four decades, Kashmir was a part of what we consider India – merged, integrated, acceded, depends on whom you ask – and for those four decades it was not part of India on the strength of a “brutal military occupation”. Unlike German soldiers marching into Poland or Chinese troops invading Tibet, India did not have to “invade” Kashmir and then hold it from Day One by administering martial law or its equivalent. I don’t mean to sound cheesy, but for years and years Bollywood didn’t churn out those scenes of a beautiful, peaceful, idyllic Kashmir on the strength of shooting crews backed by hundreds of ‘brutal soldiers’ trying to create a pretence of normal, peaceful life. That’s just how it was. Someone worked to change it. The question is – who?

...

Having lived and worked in J&K for many years, as an editor, I have carried stories about remote hilly villages where terrorists surrounded hamlets of Gujjars and slit the throats of two dozen villagers to indicate the price of ‘cooperation’ extended to security forces patrolling the hills. When Bill Clinton came to India, we saw the carnage of 36 Sikhs in Chatttisinghpora – something which Arundhati’s comrade in arms, Syed Ali Shah Geeelani, incredibly enough, still reiterates was ‘done by India to defame Kashmiris’. There is no dearth of such instances – I quote only a couple to remind us all that Kashmir’s brutal occupation is not quite as much of an innocent-lambs-being-led-to-slaughter scenario as Ms Roy perhaps sees it as.

When Arundhati says that she speaks for justice “for Kashmiri Pandits who live out the tragedy of having been driven out of their homeland”, it is too ridiculous to even merit comment, given that she wants that justice to come while she shares a dias with Geelani. They were ‘driven out of their homeland’, Arundhati, by the brutal military occupiers of Kashmir, or by someone else? Driven out by whom? Why leave it to delightful ambiguities here? I do not know if Kashmiri Pandits give any weightage to her speaking ostensibly on their behalf. And the statistical chances of Pandits returning to Kashmir if the brutal military occupation ends tomorrow are slimmer than of Arundhati joining the BJP.

Arundhati seeks justice, too, “for Dalit soldiers killed in Kashmir whose graves I visited on garbage heaps in their villages in Cuddalore.” This is slick if you are writing a column for a foreign audience, the way Aussie ‘experts’ wrote on the caste composition of the Indian cricket team during the Bhajji-Symonds spat, but, hello, “Dalit soldiers” killed in Kashmir die in situations different from upper caste soldiers or Sikh soldiers or Muslim soldiers – or local, Kashmiri Muslim policemen? Don’t insult our intelligence, and the Army’s basic DNA, with this line of argument. You wish to be the defender of the rights of those oppressed in Kashmir, of the Pandits, and of the “Dalit soldiers” from among the troops who die there day in and day out? Sorry, this is just not real, it’s just not genuine, even if it is possibly good homework for global awards coming your way as defender of the rights of all oppressed sections in this part of the world.

Arundhati’s also looking for justice “for the Indian poor who pay the price of this occupation in material ways and who are now learning to live in the terror of what is becoming a police state”, but I have little comment to offer on this because, frankly, it is a little too esoteric for me to understand the point. I understand that India is in selective ways and selective zones a police state of sorts, but how insensitive policing in interior Bihar is attributable to Kashmir’s status – and how Azadi will address that – must have a subtle connect which my everyday, non literary mind has singularly failed to grasp. But then, we are all not blessed with equal talents.

Anyway, this is not one of Ms Roy’s essays, so I daren’t type away endlessly. I’ll conclude.

You say, Arundhati, “pity the nation that has to silence its writers for speaking their minds. Pity the nation that needs to jail those who ask for justice, while communal killers, mass murderers, corporate scamsters, looters, rapists, and those who prey on the poorest of the poor, roam free.” I say, you are jumping the gun. Neither have you been silenced at any point for speaking your mind – distasteful as it may be to many when it veers towards applauding anyone willing to kill an Indian soldier, be it a Naxal in Chattisgarh or a terrorist in Kashmir – nor does the nation need to be pitied. Yet. Writers and dissidents are silenced, in friendlier and I suppose less ‘brutal’ societies such as Pakistan, China, Myanmar, but the very fact that you can issue statements and notes challenging the same to be done here is, perhaps, the strongest negation of those statements. Yes, many murderers, scamsters and rapists still roam free, and no, we aren't proud of that in the least, but no, you haven’t been jailed for asking for justice. And I don’t see that happening. Truth be told, I think you don’t see it happening either.

So while one gives all credit to your intellectual prowess, I don’t think this overdose of pity for the nation is quite deserved. It's a lot of hyperbole. As part of ‘the nation’, even if just one-billionth, I respectfully wish to return my proportion of pity offered by you, Ms Roy. Please accept it. And while you’re at it, pass it on to Mr Geelani; I daresay he needs it more.

[amit]

amit:

My comment about the leftist liberals was more general and not specific to AR. Most of these people come from a background of relative privilege. Most of them spend their lives as cost centers (living off family wealth or investment; heck most of these leftists infested centers are funded by tax-payers), and very few have had the need or the pressure, to deliver, in their lives. T

SAR basically led a life of a vagabond; running away from home, living in slums, then a beach bum in Goa, then PK's muse/girl-friend/wife. I had met PK and his children way back in the late 80s on a long bus trip; the bus was received by none other than SAR when she was not so famous. This was about the time Annie came out. Come to think of it, I also know Shudda Sengupta @ Kafila from school who also happened to speak in the same event in Delhi as Geelani.

In my travels around the world, and my interaction with different cultures, I have realized that Indians allow too much latitude to anti-state forces. This is especially true of the so called intellectuals (whether it is the Maoist supporters or the Islamist lovers) who are given an enormous space to operate in. There is absolutely no need for the Indian state to tolerate these anti-state forces. Kick a few, and the rest will line up.

Vikram,

Again no disagreement with the points you raise. However, I'm not too sure your "Kick a few, and the rest will line up" will work in the Indian context.

And that's because our democracy and freedom constrains us as to how hard a kick we can deliver. If we could be like China who's locked up Liu Xiaobo for so many years, then yes all the rest would fall in line. But we can't do that. Take A Roy's case for example. Suppose she was arrested, then what, she would be sent to a judicial remand and then there would bail and court proceedings. All these would be long drawn processes and in the meantime she'll wear the Martyr's Halo and bask in the limelight. Ultimately, if all goes well she'd probably get a few months jail term if at all. By then a crescendo would build up and there would be incredible pressure on the GoI. All this would give this nitwit the kind of publicity she must be dreaming of every night and she'll milk this for the next five years at least.

On the other hand ignoring her ensures that in a busy country like India with so much happening she'll fall under the radar. Very soon the focus will be Bihar and after that something else.

On the other hand your point about being tough is certainly what the GoI should do with the Hurriyat rats. I agree that far too much laxity has been given to these idiots. If necessary keep a perpetual state of emergency in the Valley. Let's see who blinks first. No country would say a word save Pakistan and who cares what they think.

I personally think buffoons like Dilip Padgonkar are more harmful with their utterances than A Roy who's been found out a long time ago and has lost her credibility even among the Vinod Mehta types.

In short, fully agree on the need to be tough. I just think A Roy is not important enough to apply that to her. Let's win battles which are worth winning. Let's not be like the US claiming a great victory after taking over Grenada.

JMT

[amit]

Don’t pity us, Arundhati – not yet

http://blogs.timesofindia.indiatimes.co ... ti-not-yet

These two paragraphs are a masterpiece. I'm impressed by the writer!

You say, Arundhati, “pity the nation that has to silence its writers for speaking their minds. Pity the nation that needs to jail those who ask for justice, while communal killers, mass murderers, corporate scamsters, looters, rapists, and those who prey on the poorest of the poor, roam free.” I say, you are jumping the gun. Neither have you been silenced at any point for speaking your mind – distasteful as it may be to many when it veers towards applauding anyone willing to kill an Indian soldier, be it a Naxal in Chattisgarh or a terrorist in Kashmir – nor does the nation need to be pitied. Yet. Writers and dissidents are silenced, in friendlier and I suppose less ‘brutal’ societies such as Pakistan, China, Myanmar, but the very fact that you can issue statements and notes challenging the same to be done here is, perhaps, the strongest negation of those statements. Yes, many murderers, scamsters and rapists still roam free, and no, we aren't proud of that in the least, but no, you haven’t been jailed for asking for justice. And I don’t see that happening. Truth be told, I think you don’t see it happening either.

So while one gives all credit to your intellectual prowess, I don’t think this overdose of pity for the nation is quite deserved. It's a lot of hyperbole. As part of ‘the nation’, even if just one-billionth, I respectfully wish to return my proportion of pity offered by you, Ms Roy. Please accept it. And while you’re at it, pass it on to Mr Geelani; I daresay he needs it more.

The bolded portion is precisely why IMO A Roy shouldn't be arrested. Every hour she remains free after making those statements reduces her credibility. And taking away her credibility is far worse punishment for the gasbag than any jail term. IMVHO.

[Lalmohan]

she is very clearly angling to be arrested, getting desperate infact...