rohitvats wrote:Insignias of various Air Commands. The first on the left is Western Air Command.nishu wrote:what do the symbols on the flags represent in this image
http://livefist.blogspot.com/2010/10/ia ... -what.html
That is beside the point that I was making. However, taking the bait, I'd argue that this is hardly an issue -GeorgeWelch wrote:Except for the whole part about it being ready anytime soon.Cain Marko wrote:Re. its capability, there is little to doubt that it'll meet IAF needs quite well.
They don't use the Su-30MKI either.Nihat wrote:if russia itself has not shown any great intrest in the 35. Then i fail to see the point of us being the first user of a phoren plane.
They are showing a strong interest in the MiG-29K - it does use some israeli/french components including the HMS. Ditto with the Mistral class ship and Israeli UAVs. The could always replace such components if they really wantedNihat wrote:thats because they cant use the MKI , it involves israeli and the french components which RuAFmight have a problem with.
Physically perhaps, but that's the easy part.Cain Marko wrote:First the bird as it currently stands is complete.
I don't think either will be ready in an acceptable timeframe.Cain Marko wrote:Second, it is similar to the Gripen in a sense. So if they can settle for the NG, the 35 should be alright.
Do not confuse minor tweaks with completely redoing a plane's avionics.Cain Marko wrote:Third, none of the candidates are completely ready
Which is why I recommend the SHCain Marko wrote:For that matter, how much interest is the US showing in the F-16blk60?
What exactly do they have to "get together" to make it work? The avionics are all ready and working - including the FBW, the Mil std 1553 bus integration, and the sensor fusion. It shares complete commonality with the MiG-29K, which has been inducted by the IN. The only difference in terms of the airframe is in the tailhook, which can be/was dropped. The other difference is in the radar, which is based on the same backend, and has finished testing. The last difference iirc, is in the active Italian jammer, which too has been incorporated for over 3 years now. What more does it require for the a/c to be ready?GeorgeWelch wrote:Physically perhaps, but that's the easy part.Cain Marko wrote:First the bird as it currently stands is complete.
The F-35 was physically complete and all major components were ready a couple years ago.
Getting everything to work together is the hard part. ....Do not confuse minor tweaks with completely redoing a plane's avionics.
Apparently, the IAF thinks differently.I don't think either will be ready in an acceptable timeframe.
Ya, well some things will never change! Don't ever go to George if you have a problem, be it cancer, relationships, car trouble or whatever, it is likely you will be offered the only one solution readily available - Super Hornet.Which is why I recommend the SH
Didn't the MiG-35 sales pitch used to be how it was so much more advanced than the K and how it was practically a brand new plane?Cain Marko wrote:It shares complete commonality with the MiG-29K
Nah, if you have car trouble you obviously need a C-17 to get it to the shop.Cain Marko wrote:Ya, well some things will never change! Don't ever go to George if you have a problem, be it cancer, relationships, car trouble or whatever, it is likely you will be offered the only one solution readily available - Super Hornet.
No, actually MiG is pretty smart about it, ya the 35 is more advanced (thanks to the AESA in p'cular 4++ gen they call it ), however, the thing they emphasize the most is the 90%+ commonality with the K - "unified family" and all.GeorgeWelch wrote:Didn't the MiG-35 sales pitch used to be how it was so much more advanced than the K and how it was practically a brand new plane?Cain Marko wrote:It shares complete commonality with the MiG-29K
Nah, if you have car trouble you obviously need a C-17 to get it to the shop.[/quote]Cain Marko wrote:Ya, well some things will never change! Don't ever go to George if you have a problem, be it cancer, relationships, car trouble or whatever, it is likely you will be offered the only one solution readily available - Super Hornet.
He also added that he doesn't expect the failure of the EJ200 to win the LCA contract to affect EF's bid..or so he hopes!Q: By when do you see a shortlist coming, if at all? By when do you see the final MMRCA deal being signed?
Gerwert: What we know is that the flight evaluation is over and that the Indian Air Force (IAF) has submitted the report to the ministry of defence. The offset offers are being discussed. I expect the commercial envelopes to be opened soon, in the next few weeks or months.
Q There is talk of cuts to defence programmes in Europe. Italy reduced its order of Eurofighter jets by 25 and several European countries grounded their fleet, citing security concerns. Does this affect how the aircraft is perceived?
Casolini: Officially, there is no document that suggests that Italy has reduced its order for the Eurofighter. We have a total commitment of 620 aircraft, under the so-called four-nation “umbrella contract”, and we’re sticking to that till someone officially comes to us and tells us they don’t have the money and so have to reduce or cancel the contract. As for your other question, the fleet was grounded in all the countries due to a problem related to the ejection system, which was solved within a week.
Boardman: The UK has had to make some tough decisions in the current economic climate, but it’s chosen to retire its older aircraft, the Harrier, and has reaffirmed its investment commitment into Eurofighter.
QYou have reportedly said that if you win the MMRCA contract, you will move avionics operations and a few thousand jobs from Europe to India. In the light of the above situation, isn’t that a bit too far fetched?
Gerwert: We already have an EADS engineering centre in Bangalore, which was started three years ago for Airbus. In the beginning of this year, we have also opened our military engineering centre in Bangalore. We have hired 20 engineers there, but our intention is to ramp up our strength to 250-300 people by 2012. This programme is independent from the Eurofighter. So, for the moment, we are not talking of moving thousands of jobs to India. If, however, the Eurofighter is selected, then we would be contractually bound to effect a 60% technology transfer. So, if India decides for the Eurofighter, the technology transfer clause would mean that we would create thousands of jobs in India.
Q: There have, however, been several cost over-runs in the Eurofighter programme. What do you have to say about that?
Boardman: You can take up any big defence programme in the world, and they have all had cost over-runs at some point or the other. In Europe, national audits have found that almost all our programmes have met their targets. The contractors in Europe will tell you that we deliver within the set cost parameters.
Gerwert: On the production contract for the Eurofighter, we do not have any cost over-runs. We signed the contract in 1998, and we have exactly been within our cost parameters.
The ongoing Air Force Commanders Conference entered into its penultimate day. Discussions on various operational philosophies and IAF’s roadmap for Maritime Air Operations were discussed during the day. Commanders from the IAF’s Operational Commands presented their operational plans and discussions on various new concepts took place.
Among the other highlights of today’s meeting included an interaction with MoD officials led by Defence Secretary Shri Pradeep Kumar. The Air Chief and Defence Secretary emphasised the necessity to have greater synergy between MoD and the IAF HQ to achieve IAF’s transformational plan within the laid down time frames. Critical issues related to acquisition, infrastructural development and budget support were discussed during the interaction.
The IAF is poised for a large scale transformation in the years ahead. Significant among them will be the acquisition of MMRCA, which will address IAF’s long-outstanding demand of replenishing its combat aircraft inventory. Also in the pipeline are new jet trainers, combat helicopters, various missile systems and radars which will significantly enhance the strategic capabilities of the IAF. The concluding day will have discussions on various maintenance and HR issues.
F-16IN is a good fighter and its strike capability in phenomenal , it may not be a great dog fighter but its a single engine fighter with lower operating cost and Lockmart would offer the most TOT for this.
... turning screw drivers.If India picks Eurofighter, it will create thousands of jobs here
An honest question.Austin wrote:F-16IN is a good fighter and its strike capability in phenomenal , it may not be a great dog fighter but its a single engine fighter with lower operating cost and Lockmart would offer the most TOT for this.
I think if we opt for F-16IN with most TOT and good offset its not a bad deal. There is the long israel experience with F-16 that would be helpful.
I would be happy if we opt for any one between Gripen-IN,F-16IN and Mig-35.
The IAF has already said that this is not a problem. So pakistan operating F-16 and IAF operating the same really does not matter , because AirForce is as much about Tactics,Training , Morale and Weapons/Sensors ,as it is about aircraft.Henrik wrote:An honest question.
What do the Indian public and leadership think about operating the same plane as Pakistan (well it's not exactly the same but the same series)?. Could the Indian leaders chose the F-16 without walking into some bad public opinion? I
'm really just asking.
arya wrote:shukla wrote:MMRCA fighter buzz: US, EU step up heat
IBNlive reports..
DDm again its best according to him Russia's President is Putin not Medvedev
Snags in tech eval stage? Whats he smoking???Ahead of US President Barack Obama’s November 6-8 visit, representatives of various global arms companies are engaged in intensive lobbying to bag the biggest ever military contract worth $12 billion for 126 multi-role fighter jets for the Indian Air Force (IAF).
American aerospace giant Lockheed Martin Corporation arranged a press briefing here to hardsell its F-16 Super Viper single-engine fighter. Meanwhile, the entire board of its competitor, the European Aeronautic Defence and Space Company NV (EADS), manufacturers of the Eurofighter, is in India to stem any chances of American companies that they feel may have a political edge on the eve of their president’s visit.
The F/A-18 Super Hornet from the military arm of Boeing Company is also in the race and it too is leaving no stone unturned to procure the contract.
Analysts in the capital agree that the deal has now attained political overtones and predict it may go the US way if Obama announces, or indicates, some major concessions to India, say, by offering support to India’s bid for a permanent seat on the UN Security Council and removing some snags in the India-US defence purchases deal.
Batting for US arm companies recently, US Assistant Secretary of State for South Asia Robert Blake estimated that 27,000 jobs would be created in the US if they clinch this deal. Addressing India’s concerns vis-à-vis Pakistan, Lockheed Martin Director Michael R Griswold said his company would provide more advanced F-16IN Super Viper fighters to India. “It is a unique fourth-generation fighter and is ready for integration into India’s military force,” he said.
Referring to the plane’s radar system, his associates claimed that it can detect a plane even as it takes off from a Pakistani airbase. Pushing their case further, they said the single engine that generates 32,000 pounds of thrust also gives greater manoeuvrability during dog fights, unlike the twin-engine aircraft.
As a deal sweetener, EADS on its part has offered to shift the manufacture of some of its components to India, which is estimated to generate 20,000 jobs. “We will transfer some of our development projects, which are now based in Europe for Eurofighter or other military aircraft, to India. We have already set up a military research and development (R&D) centre in Bangalore,” EADS Chief Executive (Defence & Security) Stefan Zoller had recently told Indian journalists in Bonn.
The European defence giant, however, has been quick to deny that its plan to shift operations to India was in any way linked to its bid for the multi-billion contract, saying it was only interested in procuring cheap manpower. But analysts say the move was aimed at putting indirect pressure on the government to award this contract and others in the future.
The race to win the massive contract had several other contenders, including the MiG-35 from Russia, the Rafale from Dassault Aviation of France, and the JAS 39 Gripen from Sweden. But it is now a toss-up between the American and EADS, with most of the other contenders having more or less lost hope of bagging the contract either due to snags during the technical evaluation stage or due to the absence of political clout.
indranilroy wrote:Hmmm.
Eurofighter's pitch as best in class
I wouldn't just go by how a company magazine is ranking itself, but even if I go the Eurofighter is not making the best case for itself.
I know that the MMRCA has changed a lot from the original requirement, but I still believe that we need medium fighters which can protect itself while carrying out strike roles. Am I wrong here? They wanted more Mirages in roles like Kargil, right? So we are not looking for the most elite A2A platform, apparently even more superior to the Su-27 airframe. According to our requirement and their own evaluation Rafale is the best fit! Very decent A2A platform (put above the F-15, F-16, F-18, F-35) while have very good strike capabilities.
It would be great is one reporters would go to IAF and ask, "Sir, what is the goal of the MMRCA aircraft?" Vishnu, are your listening?
I differ sir.Nihat wrote: I suppose there are plenty of air superiority fighters in the IAF or will be in the future with the induction MKI, FGFA and to an extent LCA which are all good at A2A roles. With MMRCA the IAF may be looking at a ground pounder to replace its Mig-27 and Jag Fleet. Superhornet and Rafale then appear to be favourites , can't say how good the Gripen IN is in A2G role.
