LCA News and Discussions

suryag · Post by **suryag** » 02 Dec 2010 07:57

I was curious as to how ejection is tested in fighter aircrafts prior to operational clearance.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 02 Dec 2010 08:14

Obviously on the ground.

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 02 Dec 2010 09:06

suryag wrote:I was curious as to how ejection is tested in fighter aircrafts prior to operational clearance.

Are you asking of intigeration with the aircraft or the design of the seat it self?

neerajb · Post by **neerajb** » 02 Dec 2010 09:09

suryag wrote:I was curious as to how ejection is tested in fighter aircrafts prior to operational clearance.

It is tested with a cockpit mockup on a rocket sledge that runs on rails (tons of videos on youtube). In the russian movie "Mirror Wars" the ejection was filmed on ground but the pilot did fly the aircraft without the canopy and the backseat.

http://gizmodo.com/5330468/mystery-of-t ... y-revealed

Cheers....

Jagan · Post by **Jagan** » 02 Dec 2010 09:58

SaiK wrote:Obviously on the ground.

Not always

http://www.martin-baker.com/getdoc/5c08 ... s-_2_.aspx

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 02 Dec 2010 11:49

Russia is supposedly testing a new lightweight ejector seat,on a rail track as ejecting it from aircraft is extremely expensive.

If posted already (Kaveri tests in Russia) ,my apologies.

http://indrus.in/articles/2010/11/11/ru ... 04879.html

Russia tests engine for Indian fighter jet

Sid · Post by **Sid** » 02 Dec 2010 16:39

http://tarmak007.blogspot.com/

Twin Treat: Advanced BrahMos version test-fired from Chandipur; Tejas fires R-73 again in Goa, chaff & flare firing too tested

A twin-delight for Indian aerospace and defense scientists on Thursday! The 290-km range BrahMos cruise missile was tested successfully from ITR in Chandipur. In Goa, NFTC pilots continued with their sea trials and fired yet another missile today.BrahMos CEO Dr Shivathanu Pillai told Tarmak007 over phone that "it was a text-book launch of the advanced version of the missile (Block III +) and it was 100 per cent successful."

In Goa, sources tell that the Tejas, in addition to firing a R-73 missile, also tested the chaff (to jam enemy radars) and flare (to divert an incoming missile) firing.

prabhug · Post by **prabhug** » 02 Dec 2010 17:21

Hardly it takes seconds for the BR slogan to reach print media

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_5sP7XwykNSM/T ... /tejas.jpg

Those who flew her,never criticised her; and those who criticised her never flew her

Cheers

Prabhu.G

Kanson · Post by **Kanson** » 02 Dec 2010 17:40

^ which paper is that ?

prabhug · Post by **prabhug** » 02 Dec 2010 19:31

Think it's in aviation week.Took it from tarmak

Gaur · Post by **Gaur** » 02 Dec 2010 19:36

prabhug wrote:Hardly it takes seconds for the BR slogan to reach print media

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_5sP7XwykNSM/T ... /tejas.jpg
Those who flew her,never criticised her; and those who criticised her never flew her
Cheers

Prabhu.G

Congrats Dileep Saar. You seem to have given very good publicity slogan to Tejas.

koti · Post by **koti** » 02 Dec 2010 19:41

In Goa, sources tell that the Tejas, in addition to firing a R-73 missile, also tested the chaff (to jam enemy radars) and flare (to divert an incoming missile) firing.

Chaff's temporarily confuse the radar with clutter, they cannot jam it.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 02 Dec 2010 19:44

well the IOCed Tejas will surely mount a SPJ like MKI does. the MK2 might have a inbuilt one and maws.

Dileep · Post by **Dileep** » 02 Dec 2010 20:28

Hope someone will at least sponsor a special up close visit to the bird at AI11 to the unknown (beyond BRF that is) author of the slogan.

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 02 Dec 2010 20:30

It is better that the author remains unknown. To ward off evil eyes

suryag · Post by **suryag** » 02 Dec 2010 20:59

CNS Verma's Navy Day press meet has this

Our indigenous naval fighter programme marked a significant milestone this year, with the first 'roll out' of the naval version of the LCA on 6th July at Bangalore. We expect the first flight to take place this month.

Super

Katare · Post by **Katare** » 02 Dec 2010 21:11

Go dileep! go dileeeep!!

Go LCA! Go LCA!!

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 02 Dec 2010 21:18

Like in MKI, any thoughts of rearward radars in its future versions. Even the wiki has no such musings.

Gaur · Post by **Gaur** » 02 Dec 2010 21:29

^^
First of all, the rearward radar in MKI is not confirmed and is a topic of debate even now. Nevertheless, rearward radar would not be possible in most fighters. Look at the tail of Su-30mki, Su-34 etc and compare it too the tail of LCA and other fighters. You will not find much room for a radar there.

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 02 Dec 2010 21:39

i remain confused by the Navy's choice of fighters... atleast 3 types are being considered... makes no sense to my dhoti shivering mind

kmc_chacko · Post by **kmc_chacko** » 02 Dec 2010 21:50

Go Tejas Go

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 02 Dec 2010 22:16

suryag wrote:CNS Verma's Navy Day press meet has this
Our indigenous naval fighter programme marked a significant milestone this year, with the first 'roll out' of the naval version of the LCA on 6th July at Bangalore. We expect the first flight to take place this month.
Super

best christmas/new year gift we could have hoped for.

kmc_chacko · Post by **kmc_chacko** » 02 Dec 2010 22:20

Now we can wait for New Years gift . . . . . . . . . . . .

srai · Post by **srai** » 03 Dec 2010 01:55

This was posted earlier but since there has been speculations going around, this clarifies some.

Tejas Ready For Sea Trials In Goa

Nov 29, 2010
By Anantha Krishnan M.
BENGALURU

India’s Tejas Light Combat Aircraft is ready to undergo another round of crucial sea trials in Goa.

Sources tell AVIATION WEEK that this time the testing will involve the firing of a missile and the jettisoning of a drop tank. The trials are set to take place this week at Naval Air Station Hansa, Dabolim, in Goa. Tejas successfully completed earlier sea trials in September as part of its Out of Station Flight Test Plan.

Pilots from the Bengaluru-based National Flight Test Center will perform the weapon trials this time.

“The density of air and humidity is very high in Goa. This time during the sea-level trials we are evaluating the radar, helmet-mounted systems and instrument landing systems,” a source said. “We will also test the radar warning receiver.”

In addition to firing a Russian-made R-73 air-to-air missile, the pilots are scheduled to test the safe drop tank separation from the aircraft.

“We have done all the ground-based tests. We are planning four-five drops at various speeds, altitudes and angles of attack,” a source said. “Tejas can carry 5,000 liters of fuel, including 1,200 each in drop tanks [and] 2,400 in wings and fuselage.”

Tejas also can carry two outboard R-73 missiles and two mid-board beyond visual range (BVR) Derby missiles from Israel.

“We have fired an R-73 missile in October 2007 against a zero target. It is important to see the safe separation of the missile,” the source said. Plume separation studies, which involve interaction with a missile’s exhaust, also will be carried out during the trials.

Various Tejas platforms have performed 1,481 flights, clocking about 878 hr. Tejas also has achieved Mach 1.6 at 15 km. altitude and a calibrated air speed of 1,350 kph.

Tejas is scheduled to complete its pre-initial operational clearance requirements by Dec. 27.

Since these tests are at sea level in very high air/humidity density, we can expect a similar set of testing at higher altitudes (maybe Leh) next for tests in hot/cold-dry-high conditions.

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 03 Dec 2010 03:39

I read an interesting tidbit in a Telugu news paper (Eenadu) on recent Brahmos test. It says

http://eenadu.net/story.asp?qry1=1&reccount=30

Per DRDL, A new system that can disable enemy Radars and Missiles was tested using Tejas fighter. This system works aluminum powder coated with fiber and laser rays (?). This system was developed indigenously.

What the hell is this? DDM or a true weapon system? Reminds me one "military scenario" someone wrote on BRF a while ago....

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 03 Dec 2010 03:56

pure plasma vision!
RamaY, what you would like to believe?

Gaur · Post by **Gaur** » 03 Dec 2010 03:57

RamaY wrote:I read an interesting tidbit in a Telugu news paper (Eenadu) on recent Brahmos test. It says

http://eenadu.net/story.asp?qry1=1&reccount=30

Per DRDL, A new system that can disable enemy Radars and Missiles was tested using Tejas fighter. This system works aluminum powder coated with fiber and laser rays (?). This system was developed indigenously.
What the hell is this? DDM or a true weapon system? Reminds me one "military scenario" someone wrote on BRF a while ago....

Yep..its true weapon system. The bold part describes chaffs..I guess that will be the weapon that disables enemy radars.

The laser part...I guess that would be flares which give protection from IR seekers (not Laser).

PS: We may curse ddm a lot, but no one can deny the number of good laughs they have provided us with. If the saying that each laugh increases you life is true, then we sure are on our way to becoming immortals.

A Sharma · Post by **A Sharma** » 03 Dec 2010 03:59

^^
chaff and flare

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 03 Dec 2010 04:16

A Sharma wrote:^^
chaff and flare

Now I get it, the Telugu journalist tried to translate "Chaff and Flare" into pure Telugu.

Desa Bhashalandu Telugu Lessa

Dileep · Post by **Dileep** » 03 Dec 2010 06:11

R Prasannan of Manorama does a commendable job on defense related stuff in Malayalam.

sathyaC · Post by **sathyaC** » 04 Dec 2010 09:52

Tejas Performs Chaff Flare Test
http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/generic/ ... are%20Test

India’s Tejas Light Combat Aircraft on Dec. 2 test-fired chaff and flares from the countermeasure dispensing system (CMDS) indigenously designed and developed by Bharath Dynamics Ltd. (BDL), Hyderabad.

This was part of the Tejas’ ongoing sea trials at INS Hansa in Goa. Tejas LSP-4, piloted by Group Capt. Suneet Krishna, also fired another R-73 missile Dec. 2, following a firing on Nov. 30 (Aerospace DAILY, Dec. 1).

The CMDS firing assumes special significance, as this is the first time an indigenously developed CMDS was integrated and tested on an indigenous fighter aircraft with an open architecture mission computer and digital stores management system.

“The release and trajectory of these stores were closely monitored by another Tejas chase aircraft flown in close proximity of the test aircraft,” says the Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA), which builds Tejas. “Visual observation supported by analysis of video recording of the release event indicated that the trial was successful, meeting the stipulated design requirements of the system. The test therefore was the culmination of a long journey of Tejas from a fledgling fighter aircraft to a full-blown weapon system with passive missile and radar jamming capabilities.”

Tejas program chief P.S. Subramaniam tells AVIATION WEEK that the program is on track. “This is a significant achievement for the project and augurs well for our future missions also,” Subramaniam says.

While the Tejas team is excited about the program inching closer to its much-awaited initial operational clearance (IOC), with a series of successful trials and first flights of new platforms from the flight-line, the Indian Air Force (IAF) is watching developments very closely.

When asked to comment on Tejas’ weapon trials in Goa, IAF Vice Chief Air Marshal P.K. Barbora says: “If they [Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd.-ADA] can stick to the timelines for IOC and deliver the numbers they have promised by certain dates, it will be a great thing for us.”

A high-level meeting with all stakeholders was held at ADA on Dec. 2 to assess the level of certification process achieved so far.

suryag · Post by **suryag** » 05 Dec 2010 00:30

Another update from Ananth garu
Tejas logs 1,500th flight; gearbox gets Type Approval from CEMILAC

Sid · Post by **Sid** » 05 Dec 2010 06:55

suryag wrote:Another update from Ananth garu
Tejas logs 1,500th flight; gearbox gets Type Approval from CEMILAC

so LCA are back in B'Lore and sill no news drop tank seperation tests?

Gurneesh · Post by **Gurneesh** » 05 Dec 2010 07:39

It was PV2 in B'lore. In Goa, LSP 4 is doing the testing duties. It fired some more R73's.

Kartik · Post by **Kartik** » 05 Dec 2010 11:37

Gurneesh wrote:It was PV2 in B'lore. In Goa, LSP 4 is doing the testing duties. It fired some more R73's.

yes but Gp Cpt Suneet Krishna was the chase pilot when LSP-4 fired the first R-73 as per news reports. So, he was indeed in Goa at that time and has apparently returned to Bangalore, as the flight tests scheduled at Goa are either complete or almost complete.

Rahul M, is there any way that Gp Cpt Hari Nair could try and convince Gp Cpt RR Tyagi to join BRF (if he knows him that is)? He is retired now and may be that helps in being able to post online about flight testing and the Tejas ?

bmallick · Post by **bmallick** » 05 Dec 2010 11:50

People have been saying a lot with regards to the low production run of LCA mk1 and some for and some against. Wouldn't it be possible to market the LCA mk1 to the third world countries who need a cheap fighter. If we are able to get a order of 20-40 then HAL can increase its production rate and also the country earns some money to pay for its own R&D.

These days except for the chinese offer, there is no other new cheap fighter out there. LCA even in its current avatar is more than a match for loads of fighters out there.

Pratik_S · Post by **Pratik_S** » 05 Dec 2010 12:00

bmallick wrote:People have been saying a lot with regards to the low production run of LCA mk1 and some for and some against. Wouldn't it be possible to market the LCA mk1 to the third world countries who need a cheap fighter. If we are able to get a order of 20-40 then HAL can increase its production rate and also the country earns some money to pay for its own R&D.

Vietnam is a country where India can look, their Air Force is flying old fighter like MiG-21 and Su-22 which need replacement. They have more than 200 such aircrafts so to replace them they could very well order some 100 LCA's. But the problem is that India is not a aggressive arms exporter and we could face problems from China and Russia.

Gurneesh wrote:It was PV2 in B'lore. In Goa, LSP 4 is doing the testing duties. It fired some more R73's.

3 R-73's fired in Goa so far. That brings the total to 4.

Drishyaman · Post by **Drishyaman** » 05 Dec 2010 15:09

bmallick wrote:People have been saying a lot with regards to the low production run of LCA mk1 and some for and some against. Wouldn't it be possible to market the LCA mk1 to the third world countries who need a cheap fighter. If we are able to get a order of 20-40 then HAL can increase its production rate and also the country earns some money to pay for its own R&D.

Why not ? But, before that let it clear IOC and FOC first. This will give confidence to ADA / HAL in their own product and provide them the confidence to market that to other countries.

bmallick · Post by **bmallick** » 05 Dec 2010 16:48

B_Ambuj wrote: Why not ? But, before that let it clear IOC and FOC first. This will give confidence to ADA / HAL in their own product and provide them the confidence to market that to other countries.

Of course IOC & FOC are the most important milestones, but the marketing machinery can start working now. We ourselves have most of the MMRCA contenders pitching there yet to be made versions of aircraft pitted against each other.

If we have invested huge sums its imperative that we sell it some other countries and recover some of it.

babbupandey · Post by **babbupandey** » 05 Dec 2010 18:43

I think it's better for HAL to gain confidence in their own product. Once IAF approves the product, then HAL can start pitching it to other nations.
There is another factor to be kept in mind, which is that whether or not the government will approve (and with how many subsystems) sale to other countries.