Small Arms Thread

[tejas]

I saw a DRDO holographic sight in a recent Tech. Focus article but I can't remember which one. Consulting my good friend Google, look what I found. Can't believe this was missed by all the rabid jingoes on the forum. Hopefully this pans out though I did see a recent news report about shiny new sights from Germany

http://beta.thehindu.com/news/cities/Th ... 439498.ece

[shiv]

It is harder to remove water from smaller capillaries when compared to larger capillaries due to the surface tension of water(Please draw anology with rifle calibers).
So, it would be logical to reason that 7.62 might serve the cause better then 5.56.

I am no firearms expert, but wouldn't the capillary surface tension problem mainly affect the areas between the grooves of the rifling at any bore size larger than about 4-5 mm. That is where one would expect residual water to remain.

On another (ignorant) note - it it only water in the barrel that is a worry for wet weapons. Or is it water-borne silt and debris in every part of the rifle?

[Singha]

what standard rifle do the marcos units use today ? natgeo made it seem like ak74 and dragunov ?

[ArmenT]

I am no firearms expert, but wouldn't the capillary surface tension problem mainly affect the areas between the grooves of the rifling at any bore size larger than about 4-5 mm. That is where one would expect residual water to remain.

On another (ignorant) note - it it only water in the barrel that is a worry for wet weapons. Or is it water-borne silt and debris in every part of the rifle?

The problem with water in the barrel is similar to putting a drinking straw in a glass of cola and then pulling it out with your finger blocking one end. Note that the straw holds a fair amount of cola in it partly because of capillary action and partly because of air pressure.

The same thing happens in a rifle because the breech end provides a pretty tight seal. It is like a finger on one end of the straw. Now when a high-speed bullet is fired through this water, the problem is that the chamber and barrel pressures become higher due to the water being an almost non-compressible fluid and not being able to get out of the way quickly enough when the bullet is fired out. Since the pressure has to go somewhere, it usually ends up damaging the action or rupturing the barrel.

So, best procedure is to get as much of the water out as possible. For an M-16, due to its smaller caliber and very gas-tight seal, water doesn't drain out as easily due to the capillary action and air pressure holding it in place (in fact, they don't recommend carrying it with muzzle pointing up in the heavy rain for this reason). So, to drain it off much of the water, they recommend pointing the barrel down and then pulling the forward assist out a couple of inches to break the seal so most of the water will drain out. Once this is done, the remaining tiny droplets of water around the grooves doesn't affect it as much.
1958 study by the US military about the AR-15's issues with water in the barrel
Note that this issue is not exclusive to the M-16 alone. Some of the folks in the US military wanted to change the prototype M16 to 6.5mm diameter for this very reason.

For an AK-47 or an M-14, the barrel is bigger diameter due to both firing a 7.62 mm diameter round and they also have looser tolerances. Hence, water doesn't retain in the barrel as much. But it is still a bad idea to carry one with the barrel pointing up in heavy rain.

One way some manufacturers fix this issue is by making the barrel stronger so it can resist the additional pressures even without the barrel being fully drained (e.g. HK416, XM-8 etc.). In some other cases, people add vents in the bore, bolt carrier and mag to drain water quickly (Knight Armament, LWRC etc.)

Mud, silt debris etc. can cause similar problems. In general, it is not a good idea to have anything in the barrel except air. Best idea would be to probably stick a condom at the end of the barrel to keep out as much debris as possible. I've heard of people using this idea in the Normandy landings and Brits used the same idea in Kuwait during Gulf War I, while they were sitting on their butts for weeks waiting for the war to start. There's even a commercial product called a "barrel cot" that uses the same idea.
http://www.lg-outdoors.com/proddetail.asp?prod=49572
Note that it doesn't even have to be removed before firing

[Dmurphy]

Royal Marines are first to use new Sharpshooter rifle in Helmand

[Gaur]

^^
From what precious little I have read from news reports, it is nothing revolutionary. It is basically a semi automatic 7.62mm assault rifle with longer barrel for increased range (how much?).

[vic]

updated post

I believe that DRDO has done a commendable job within the limited Budget but the artificial limits to the budget means that our overall defense R&D and production is dismal. Compare with China which has reportedly 3 times our budget and percentage of R&D in that budget is also 3 times higher giving it ten times the advantage. The fact that GoI babudom has been a failure in any major technology development even in commercial areas like Power generation (massive imports from China or screw driver technology), Telecom generation (again massive imports from China or screw driver technology), Railway new locomotives or wagons (imports or crew driver). Therefore, I suggest massive budget increase something like;-

DRDO = Rs. 15,000 crore
ISRO and BARC = Rs. 2000 crore each for developing conventional military technology as they have scientific base and labs = Rs. 4000 crore
PSU & OFB = Rs. 2000 crore each for developing conventional military technology as they have production base and labs = Rs. 4000 crore
Pvt Sector Ratnas and small sector = Rs. 2000 crore each for developing conventional military technology as they are quick on their feet = Rs. 4000 crore
Academic institutions = say Rs. 2000 crore for defense related R&D

Further, major organizations should be given budgets for assigning to R&D only so that they are forced to mandate indigenous development.

Army + RR
Airforce
Navy + Coast Guard
Central Para Military + Police forces
Central Intelligence & Investigation agencies

Say again Rs. 2000 crore each totaling Rs. 5x2000 crore = Rs. 10,000 crore.

The aim should be raise the inflation adjusted defense R&D budget to Rs. 30,000-40,000 crore per annum in next 5 years. Let me give an idea that Oil subsidy is around Rs. 80,000 crore today. The budget for commonwealth “waste of money games” is around Rs. 15,000 crore. So this amounts for R&D budget is minimum possible and within our means.

Simultaneously we must develop a full range of military products and should not ignore bread and butter projects. I intend to slowly develop a list of possible aims/items. The basic principles would be :-

Technology Absorption- (1)I have never understood that why are we not more proactive in hiring experts & retired people from western nations to aid in our R& D programmes.
(2)Also we should take full aid of JV for fast development. But JV should not be a camouflage to disguise a “Sale” like Brahmos and Maitri missile projects.
(3)Thirdly due to idiotic accounting principles we don’t take technology even if it offered at a price. You guys will be amazed to know that principle adopted by Mod is
Total value for import of production units = Total value of tech t/f fees + capital investment + indigenous production
This completely ignores the value of offshoots. Let me explain :-

Total value of 140 Su-30MKI is 140x30= US$ 4.2 Billion

So morons also called Mod will say total cost of tech t/f fees + capital investment + indigenous production line + 140 indigenous Su-30MKIs should be US $ 4.2 Billion less 10% = US$ 3.8 Billion

It means that it is not economically feasible for setting up production lines and everything is imported and assembled with a screw driver. If commercial products can get protection of import duty then the same principle should be applied to defense production like Total value for import of production units = Twice the Total value of tech t/f fees + capital investment + indigenous production for normal products and upto 5 times for technologically important projects. For instance Eurojet is offering transfer of Single Crystal technology for a price. The value of this technology cannot be evaluated on the basis of 99 engines required to be imported but on the basis of value to the whole of Indian defense and commercial production.
(4)DPP of 30% should be increased to 50% and should include life cycle costs of spare parts also.

(5)PSUs should be liberally given money to absorb technology. BEL has been asking for Rs. 500 crore to set up thermal imagers production plant (including sensor array) but is not been allocated the budget for one decade as they are supposed to do it “commercially”.
(6) Also when we tie up for long duration imports then we should build in joint R&D and technology transfer for future generation also like in case of Shakti engine (Though in Shakti engine has the right spirit but import content is very high while indigenization is slow and low)
(7) The aim of the import and evaluation of the proposals should have “main aim” of technology transfer and absorption of present and future items rather than petty fogging on cost and Lowest tender.

Adequate Budget – This long continuing attitude of assigning budgets around 1/10th of international norms is getting us nowhere. Assign right budget and Babus should not have heart attacks when DRDO tells the real budget. Like budget for PAKFA is US$ 12 Billion while for MCA it is US$ 1 Billion. What nonsense!

The principles of Defense Production and R& D should be :-

Reverse Engineering – it should be primarily spearheaded by OFB/PSU in guidance of DRDO. The idea should be speed. The improvement aspect should come with next batch. Like reverse engineering of Anti-material rifle by OFB from South African model

Upgrades – ALL products should be earmarked for upgrades and not allowed to become obsolete to prevent last minute knee jerk imports. Like BMP-2 should be upgraded (present suggested upgrade is like an import). So we should immediately mandate various R&D labs for upgrading subcomponents like engines, sights, armor etc.

Evolutionary products – DRDO should spear head evolutionary products with strict time schedule. Like Abhay IFV is a evolutionary product (present suggested upgrade is like an import). So we should immediately mandate various R&D labs for developing new sub components like engines, sights, armor etc.

Revolutionary technology – Like FMBT or hypersonic aircraft/space ships, just give it time and money and hope for the best

Fundamental research – Plan for the future now

My list of defense products that should be sanctioned now. I will start with small arms and then move on. As everybody is going for developing fancy cutting edge technology but it seems that Army or the MoD is not interested in mandating DRDO to develop small arms requirements of India for almost 3 million military and para military forces also for forces of friendly small neighbors who are depending of Chinese or Pakistani weapons. Just see:-

Pistol – no new development attempted even as FN35 if getting long in tooth. Generally Glock or Sigs are imported. Why not reverse engineer, say H&K USP?

9mm SMG - no new development attempted even as Sterling (incorrectly called Sten gun) is obsolete. Generally MP5s or Uzi are imported. Why not use MSMC as basis to make a 9mm SMG also?

9mm silenced /suppressed SMG - no new development attempted even as Sterling (incorrectly called Sten gun) is obsolete. Generally silenced Uzi are imported. Why not use MSMC as basis to make a silenced 9mm SMG also?

5.56mm carbine – no new development attempted after failure of INSAS carbine which may be due to unsuitable ammo. No new attempt, so Army has issued request for imports! Why not reverse engineer HK-416 or Sig?

5.56mm rifle – no new development attempted after INSAS. No new attempt, so Army has issued request for imports! Why not reverse engineer HK-416 or Sig? It seems that Army has gone a step ahead and actually barred DRDO to even attempt developing a new indigenous rifle

5.56mm LMG – no new development attempted after INSAS. No new attempt, so Army has issued request for imports calling it IAR! Why not reverse engineer HK-416?

7.62mm rifle – no new development attempted after Isapore. No new attempt, so Army has issued request for imports calling it amphibious rifle? Why not reverse engineer HK-417 or Sig?

7.62mm silenced /suppressed rifle – no new development attempted?

We should also manufacture bullpub variants of 5.56mm and 7.62 mm rifles as our requirements will continue to be large and variant of similar mass produced conventional rifle will give economy of scale.

7.62 light GPMG - No attempt for development say by modifying GMAG, so Army has issued request for imports! Why not use GMAG as a basis to develop a new light 7.62mm GPMG or reverse engineer Mk-48?

HMG - No attempt for development say by modifying Kord, so Army has issued request for imports!

Sniper rifles - No new attempt, so Army has issued request for imports! Why not use INSAS action or bolt action OFB rifles as basis to develop a new Sniper rifle or just reverse engineer HK-417 or SCAR?

Sniper silenced /suppressed rifles - No new attempt,!

Anti material rifles - No new attempt after indigenous attempt was called heavy, so Army has issued request for imports! Why not reverse engineer Gepard-2?

RPG - No attempt, so Army has issued request for imports! Why not reverse engineer Israeli RPGs using Milan as tech base? Note Carl Gastaf is not RPG, it is RCL

AGL- No new attempt, so Army has issued request for imports! Why not reverse engineer Russian AGLs?

Shot guns- present one seems adequate but now focus should shift for new indigenous development before somebody in Army decides to issue RFI/RFP for import.

Note each of the above small arms would require around Rs. 10 crore to Rs. crore budget to develop or reverse engineer well within the powers of Army Chief to sanction. Note INSAS needed only Rs. 4 crore to develop. Time line to reverse engineer should be around One year. Also almost all designs are more than 10-20 years old so no IPR restrictions
Extract of Glock story from wiki. Note Glock had never manufactured any small arms let alone pistols

Glock became aware of the Army's planned procurement and in 1982 assembled a team of Europe's leading handgun experts from military, police and civilian sport shooting circles to define the most desirable characteristics in a combat pistol.[4] Within just three months, Glock developed a working prototype.[6] The new weapon made extensive use of synthetic materials and modern manufacturing technologies in its design, making it a very cost-effective candidate. Several samples of the 9x19mm Glock 17 (so named because it was the 17th patent of the company) were submitted for assessment trials in early 1982, and after passing all of the exhaustive endurance and abuse tests, Glock emerged as the winner with the Model 17

It is interesting that small nations like Israel, Singpare, South Korea are leaving India behind while we are still into Dil mange more import!

Sights for small arms - There is massive move in the world to go in for holographic sights, red dot lasers, IR illuminators, IR pointers, optical sights, supersonic suppressors but there is no coordinated attempt for their adoption and production in India except for some sporadic R&D by DRDO. There are only some ad-hoc RFI/RFP for imports. Why? Army sleeping on the wheel like bolt action & SLR debate prior to 1962? Note the intent to manufacture holographic sights in India is being debated since 1980s to no avail.
Binoculars & periscope sights
IT and IR night sights - Also as aforesaid BEL is indulging in screw driver technology in for IT and IR sights even though current requirements span thousands of crores per annum.

Going forward:-

120mm mortar- indigenous attempt rejected. Why? Why not try again using titanium to lower weight? The revolutionary design would be use composites which is being experimented in USA.

105mm IFG/LFG- The whole hype of single caliber 155mm artillery gun is misplaced as is also being realized in western armies. 105mm cannon will continue to be relevant to mountainous areas. A modern aluminum and titanium light 105mm howitzer would weight only around 1 to 1.5 tons and very relevant for Indian needs.

155mm guns – story is folklore. Instead of importing, why not tie-up say with BAE or Nexter to develop indigenous variants rather than importing an mélange of different designs? Parliamentary committee as repeatedly asked Army to work with DRDO for indigenous guns but to no avail. I suggest JV with BAE or Nexter or Reinmetal for single gun in many variants rather than present attempt for mishmash of lot of imports.

New Anti Aircraft gun – imports recommended! I suggest JV with BAE or Nexter or Reinmetal to develop a 40mm light revolver cannon to use the ammo of our Bofors 40mm.

New 20mm rotary for helo & aircrafts – Presently Imported from Nexter. I suggest JV with BAE or Nexter or Reinmetal for single gun in many variants for helos and aircrafts in 20mm and other relevant calibers.

76mm and 127mm naval guns – License assembly by BHEL? Why the hell BHEL? Anyway mandate BHEL to develop a future variant, say 155mm in titanium which will force it to learn the technology and also indigenization level should be full 100% for huge contract of around Rs. 3000 crore given to BHEL

AK-630mm naval Gatling – license assembly, I think we should develop another new gun to co-ordinate with new AA gun and also upgrade AK-630 to better standards say with in titanium. This will force OFB to actually learn the technology involved and it should be mandated to increase indigenization to 100%.

[rohitvats]

<SNIP>

RPG - No attempt, so Army has issued request for imports! Why not reverse engineer Israeli RPGs using Milan as tech base? Note Carl Gastaf is not RPG, it is RCL

<SNIP>

105mm IFG/LFG- The whole hype of single caliber 155mm artillery gun is misplaced as is also being realized in western armies. 105mm cannon will continue to be relevant to mountainous areas. A modern aluminum and titanium light 105mm howitzer would weight only around 1 to 1.5 tons and very relevant for Indian needs.

155mm guns – story is folklore. Instead of importing, why not tie-up say with BAE or Nexter to develop indigenous variants rather than importing an mélange of different designs? Parliamentary committee as repeatedly asked Army to work with DRDO for indigenous guns but to no avail. I suggest JV with BAE or Nexter or Reinmetal for single gun in many variants rather than present attempt for mishmash of lot of imports.

<SNIP>

I will let more knowledgeable BRFites comment on your rant about Small Arms, but let me take a dig at the above.

It is quite obvious that you're not here to share and learn - but let off some inherent anger borne of some grudge againt the Indian Army. You've been proved wrong in your opinions earlier but still you persist with false allegations.

Let us see what you've come up this time -

(a) RPG - I hope the same stands for Rocket Propelled Grenade - because this is how the general world understands RPG - something like RPG-29. Now, please tell me this one thing - which RPG does Indian Army use? And which RFI has been issued for RPG? Also, how is RPG development linked to MILAN - which is an ATGM? Are you sure, you're not confusing RPG with ATGM -something like MILAN-2T or Konkurs?

(b) 105mm IFG/LFG - Two points -

---(1) Where has the 'western world' realized the merits of 105mm caliber? Are there any examples you can quote?

---(2) How is the 155mm Caliber standardization related to 105mm gun question - and that too for mountainous use? Do you know that this standardization of 155mm is happening for the Artillery Regiments to be used in the plains? And that IA will be removing the 130mm and 105mm caliber to standardize on 155mm/52 Caliber? And that the M777 (for Mountain Divisions) is 155/39 Caliber Gun? That we yet, don't have 52 Caliber weapon in ULWH class? And why should IA stick with lower caliber gun when higher caliber gun is available - and that too 1,000Kg heavier than the original 105mm LFG E2 being used? (LFG E2 is 2,380 Kg and M777 - 3,175Kg)

(c) 155mm Gun - Please tell me where in the PSCD Reports has it been asked of IA to go for domestic 155mm Gun and yet, IA in it's blind love for foreign maal, have asked for only imports? And what you've very conviniently forgotten is that Bhim 155mm SPG was based on Arjun Chassis - with Denel Turret. And this option could have been easily extended for the Wheeled SPG - but for the shenanigans of "powers-that-be". Also, did IA know that it will take twenty years before there was chance of any new 155mm Gun was inducted? In case the induction of Bofors had happened smoothly, it is very likely that DRDO could/would have partnered with Bofors itself for the next generation of 155/52 Cal Gun and standardized the same across the three requirements.

As for mishmash of imports - in case you'd read the PSCD Reports carefully, IA is on record that it wants the same gun for Tracked and Wheeled SP gun. Only the Towed 155mm Gun might be different.

Please check your facts before you go on posting spree the next time.

[tejas]

http://www.deccanchronicle.com/hyderaba ... l-guns-242

Cross posting from COIN thread. Can't figure out what is more humiliating, being a nation of 1 billion people and having to beg a country smaller than U.P. for pistols. Or getting bitch slapped with a no from that same country. The other thing I can't figure out is why all the high tech. weapons made abroad are made by private companies unlike in India where the DPSUs rule the roost. Well maybe after having imported $ 100 billion or so of foreign private industry made weapons over the next few years we can figure it out.

[rkhanna]

http://www.deccanchronicle.com/hyderaba ... l-guns-242

Cross posting from COIN thread. Can't figure out what is more humiliating, being a nation of 1 billion people and having to beg a country smaller than U.P. for pistols. Or getting bitch slapped with a no from that same country. The other thing I can't figure out is why all the high tech. weapons made abroad are made by private companies unlike in India where the DPSUs rule the roost. Well maybe after having imported $ 100 billion or so of foreign private industry made weapons over the next few years we can figure it out.

Or maybe this is a reality check for introspection on the way our Police Forces carry out their day to day duties..

PS.. most of these companies which are now private started out as State owned.. Do keep in mind the european Ind-Mil Complex has a nearly 100 year head start on us.

[Singha]

H&K should be issued a centralized ultimatum via the MHA. either trade with all parts of the indian govt ranging from the praetorian guard (SPG) down to VDCs or get out.

[milindc]

H&K should be issued a centralized ultimatum via the MHA. either trade with all parts of the indian govt ranging from the praetorian guard (SPG) down to VDCs or get out.

This should be escalated to all the German firms who want to business in India.

[msdogra]

Oman confirms orders for Insas Rifles from India

http://idrw.org/?p=2060#more-2060

[rkhanna]

dont know if this has been posted before but interesting picture anybody have any info on it...is that a HUD?

http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/at ... 1239897658

[Gaur]

^^
Well, from what I can make out from the board, its a display of the weapon's sight. So, basically one will aim without looking through the weapon sight but by just aiming through the hmd.
IMHO its not the best idea for regular infantry. Why increase the weight and complexity when one has no problem in aiming through weapon's sight? Though I can see its value for special forces specially in urban ops. One can aim around corners without exposing one's head because of this system. This may prove valuable.

[ArmenT]

It's a thermal imager optimized for low light conditions. The heavier thermal imaging camera sits on top of the INSAS rifle and thus the user can simply aim the camera by pointing the INSAS in the desired direction. The viewer is mounted to the helmet and sits over one eye, so the user can use the other eye for normal viewing around him. Since the viewer is much lighter than the rest of the thermal imaging camera, it is easier and less tiring for the user and also allows the user to turn his head much faster. The rifle mounted camera also allows the user to view around a corner or behind cover without exposing himself.

[Gaur]

^^
Thanks for the clarification. That makes much more sense. I was wondering why would one want to aim through hmd?

[Neshant]

dont know if this has been posted before but interesting picture anybody have any info on it...is that a HUD?

http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/at ... 1239897658

way too bulky.

its a video cam system made with off the shelf parts.

they need to miniturize the stuff and make it light weight.

[rkhanna]

^^^ thanks all for the inputs.. Bulky yes but def a step in the right direction. Imagine soldier that can get inputs in the HUD from his rifle cam and say a UAV above him. His situational awareness would increase ten fold. A commander could view cam images from each of his troops if it was designed as such. Such data integration wouuld be an ideal next step..

[dhiren k]

dont know if this has been posted before but interesting picture anybody have any info on it...is that a HUD?

http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/at ... 1239897658

thats a real joke..........after a whooping budget of 15000 cr, thats what the DRDO/OFB has come up with. Even the wire coming out of from the cam doesn't look will hold to battle conditions and the helmet is awesome(though not part of the system.......but could have been a standard army one....i use this same one for driving). As pointed out earlier, the system needs to be leaner and should be positioned a bit forward for better handling of the gun.

[Pratyush]

dont know if this has been posted before but interesting picture anybody have any info on it...is that a HUD?

http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/at ... 1239897658

It seems to be an Indian implementation of a part of the land warriors system. looking forward to more information regarding the capabilities of the system along with improvement in the fit and finish of the final version.

[Aditya_V]

dont know if this has been posted before but interesting picture anybody have any info on it...is that a HUD?

http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/at ... 1239897658

thats a real joke..........after a whooping budget of 15000 cr, thats what the DRDO/OFB has come up with. Even the wire coming out of from the cam doesn't look will hold to battle conditions and the helmet is awesome(though not part of the system.......but could have been a standard army one....i use this same one for driving). As pointed out earlier, the system needs to be leaner and should be positioned a bit forward for better handling of the gun.

ADA and HAL got far less for the LCA project and DRDO for Akash and other missiles, the 15000 crore figure for DRDO for a Small arms project is number pulled out of a Musharaff

[Rahul M]

dont know if this has been posted before but interesting picture anybody have any info on it...is that a HUD?

http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/at ... 1239897658

thats a real joke..........after a whooping budget of 15000 cr, thats what the DRDO/OFB has come up with. Even the wire coming out of from the cam doesn't look will hold to battle conditions and the helmet is awesome(though not part of the system.......but could have been a standard army one....i use this same one for driving). As pointed out earlier, the system needs to be leaner and should be positioned a bit forward for better handling of the gun.

not quite, the joke is you spouting ridiculous comments and numbers out of your hat. be advised that it will not be a pleasant stay if you continue on this path.

[Kanson]

dont know if this has been posted before but interesting picture anybody have any info on it...is that a HUD?

http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/at ... 1239897658

thats a real joke..........after a whooping budget of 15000 cr, thats what the DRDO/OFB has come up with. Even the wire coming out of from the cam doesn't look will hold to battle conditions and the helmet is awesome(though not part of the system.......but could have been a standard army one....i use this same one for driving). As pointed out earlier, the system needs to be leaner and should be positioned a bit forward for better handling of the gun.

I'm sure you havent seen Americans or other western armies. It is the same wire running everywhere. Keeping the wire routed this way or other is part of aesthetics & comfort, that will be taken care of.

[sawant]

This system may be bulky etc. But I hope they start using it in CI and other operations... dont want to wait for another big event to happen and then troops complaining abt how difficult it was for them to use it... Sometimes rapid prototyping is the way to go...this was at least some of the systems will be validated...

[Karan M]

Its just a prototype, the final gizmos will all come with the F-INSAS procurement and there, there are issues with who should lead it, thanks to the extensive software component which should integrate with the Army's BMS which is being led by the DG I&S. Its a long ways off.

[jamwal]

If the gray box on the helmet is what I think it is ( transmitter for the camera), then this project seems fishy. I used almost identical equipment years ago in college for a project. Any TV set within 10 m will catch all the signals. Developers might have added some encryption to avoid that but it's difficult to make that out from a picture only.

Can anybody read the text on the infoboard in background?

[ArmenT]

Can anybody read the text on the infoboard in background?

This is what it says

HELMET MTD DISPLAY OF WPN SIGHT (I assume MTD short for "mounted" and WPN is short for "Weapon")

BRIEF DESCRIPTION
1. CONSISTS OF A TI SIGHT MOUNTED ON A WPN
WITH DISPLAY ON A VIEWING DEVICE MTD ON
HELMET TO FACILITATE PRECISE
ENGAGEMENT IN POOR LT CONDITIONS

2. COMPRISES OF THE FOLLOWING:

(a) A HELMET AND A RECEIVER UNIT
WHICH IS MTD ON TO THE RIGHT SIDE OF
THE HELMET WHICH RECEIVES THE
THERMAL IMAGE.

(b) AN EYE PIECE IN FRONT OF THE
RIGHT EYE THAT DISPLAYS THE THERMAL
IMAGE.

(c) UNCOOLED TI CAMERA MTD ON THE
(hard to tell, but it may be "INSAS" or "RIFLE")

IMP. ADVANTAGES
THE ABOVE SYS CAN BE EFFECTIVELY USED
DURING VARIOUS SCENARIOS IN CI OPS.

(perhaps INFTMN) (maybe ISF) SCHOOL AND (something else, looks like URL)

INNOVATOR LT COL RAJEEV CHAWLA

[ArmenT]

By the way, the designers better do something to address the ergonomics of the system as well. For one thing, the user demonstrating the system is right handed and is going to place the rifle butt on his right shoulder when he shoots. Most right handers are also right-eye dominant, which means he's most likely naturally used to using his right eye to peer through the sights. Unfortunately, with the viewer in front of his right eye, he has to now lean his head over to view with his left eye. Add to that the fact that he has a helmet on and the result is that he has to lean his head at a very unnatural angle to fire his weapon.

A better solution would be to make the system configurable to use over either eye, or make a mechanism to allow the viewer to be flipped out of the way quickly.

[KiranM]

How technologically feasible is it to hook the HMD with the weapon's TI through something like Bluetooth? Removes wires and frees up field of action.

[darshhan]

Looks obsolete to me.Can someone tell me which organisation is heading this effort?

[K Mehta]

way too bulky

thats a real joke..........after a whooping budget of 15000 cr, thats what the DRDO/OFB has come up with. Even the wire coming out of from the cam doesn't look will hold to battle conditions and the helmet is awesome(though not part of the system.......but could have been a standard army one....i use this same one for driving). As pointed out earlier, the system needs to be leaner and should be positioned a bit forward for better handling of the gun.

Looks obsolete to me.Can someone tell me which organisation is heading this effort?

given that the photo is pretty old, I believe I have seen such a photo since my days as a lurker! And I believe it is of a prototype, followup systems would have been produced. Perhaps some info with the photo would be more helpful.

BTW I would like to point out that such systems exist in other TFTA armies like this Felin of France-1 and Felin -2, Australia LAND 125 Soldier Combat System, FIST of UK , all of which look similarly "bulky" to me!

And I didnt know one could make out weight and other things from the photo! Some supernatural powers people have got!

Oh and BTW I am using my laser target designator for posts that dont add anything meaningful to the discussion.

[Sagar G]

How technologically feasible is it to hook the HMD with the weapon's TI through something like Bluetooth? Removes wires and frees up field of action.

Might be prone to jamming plus it will increase the product cost.

Oh and BTW I am using my laser target designator for posts that dont add anything meaningful to the discussion.

I also want one

[sudeepj]

Looks obsolete to me.Can someone tell me which organisation is heading this effort?

Its a prototype/proof of concept. I have seen prototypes of cutting edge consumer electronic devices that look nothing like the final product and a lot clunkier than the TI sight on the insas. The reason you see wires etc. sticking out is ease of instrumentation or a 'hack' to get around a low risk, commoditized part of a project.

Once the electonics/software is finalized, it will be put in a nice package, all shiny and TFTA.

Comments like yours only betray your lack of familiarity with the engineering process and an inferiority complex about being Indian.

[atreya]

All those who are saying its obsolete, bulky, etc. Please take a look at the pics in K Mehta's post. They seem "bulky" too. Indeed, I think our system seems less unwieldy in comparison to the phoren systems.

[KiranM]

How technologically feasible is it to hook the HMD with the weapon's TI through something like Bluetooth? Removes wires and frees up field of action.

Might be prone to jamming plus it will increase the product cost.

From my limited understanding of wireless technology, Bluetooth works on short wave frequency. For the sake of debate how easy or difficult is it to jam them? I am not saying it is not possible.
- But jamming say a company of soldiers? Each of their sets modulated to slightly different frequency?
- Wouldn't the jammer need to be wide band and powerful; and as such large or bulky or unwieldy. Or mobile in case the enemy was attacking and not defending?
- Also wouldn't the jammer need to be in close proximity and as such in danger by itself?
- Add limited encryption and frequency hopping to the sets which will complicate jamming.

It need not be Bluetooth technology per se. Can be any means of datalink (Simplex format).

Cost will be a challenge associated with any new technology. But considering the number of small arms in use, the economy of scale should push down the unit price.

[Sanjay M]

Armour made from 'bullet-proof custard'
A new type of liquid armour, nicknamed "bullet-proof custard", is being tested by UK scientists.

[Pratyush]

Is it edible!!

[darshhan]

Chinese army marksman competition.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lJ3-5sDn ... r_embedded

Check out their reloading technique in bullpup rifles

[ramana]

So which rifles use the 7.62mm x 51 caliber rounds? Is the requirement a way to purchase a certain make? And who mkaes that round?