J & K news and discussion

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 22 Mar 2009 01:34

SSridhar wrote:No talks if TSP insists J&K is a territorial dispute: Shiv Shankar Menon

India on Thursday said it would not discuss the Kashmir dispute with Pakistan until Pakistan stopped insisting that it was a territorial dispute.

“It is possible to discuss the dispute once it becomes clear that Pakistan is no more insisting on dividing or exchanging the territory, or talking about settling the status of the territory,” Indian Foreign Secretary Shiv Shankar Menon said He called for adopting ‘creative approaches’ to settle issues with China and Pakistan.

TSP will gladly accept this formulation. Matter of fact, TSP has always maintained that the 'core issue' is not a territorial dispute, but rather its about the 'right of self determination' (plebiscite) of the Kashmiri people (read Muslims). And the legal instrument they invoke are thos UN resolutions which gives only 2 choice, India or TSP. Thus, TSP's machinations are clear, knowing that any such plebiscite crap will mean that Kashmir will go to them. In other words, in their hearts it is about territory but without actually saying so. Thus, India should not fall in this trap. Basically, India's position should be that it will not accept any Kashmir solution that involves secession. Short of that, she will be willing to explore ways and means of bringing peace and prosperity to the troubled region.

Virupaksha · Post by **Virupaksha** » 22 Mar 2009 14:52

4 Indian army troopers, 2 militants killed in gunfight in India-controlled Kashmir
www.chinaview.cn 2009-03-22 15:28:15 Print
SRINAGAR, India-controlled Kashmir, March 22 (Xinhua) -- An army officer of the rank of major, three troopers of the Indian army and two militants were killed, while six other troopers were injured in the ongoing gunfights in the frontier district of Kupwara, close to line of control (LoC) in India-controlled Kashmir, Indian army Sunday said.

The army spokesperson told Xinhua that the gunfight took place in Vilgam area inside Hafruda forest of Kupwara.

"The encounter is going on in the area. Today the army killed two militants but in the ensuing gun battle an officer of the rank of major and three soldiers also have been killed," said J.S. Brar, the Indian army spokesperson in Srinagar, the summer capital of India-controlled Kashmir.

A Srinagar based local news agency quoting its sources said that the army has pressed up services of helicopters to trace the militants engaging the Indian army in different gunfights in the forests of Kupwara. However, Brar denied any such reports.

Meanwhile, the encounters going on in Chowkibal and Tangdar areas of Kupwara, north of Srinagar since Friday has restarted. According to reports reaching here, firing is going on in the area intermittently and the army has brought further reinforcements. Six troopers were Saturday reportedly injured from Chowkibal area.

"Since Friday in the three different encounters in Kupwara, the army has managed to kill six militants. Further details would follow," Brar said.

The Indian army is yet to come up with the full details about the different encounters going on in the area since Friday.

Earlier, reports suggest that a group infiltrated from Pakistan-controlled Kashmir has come face-to-face with the army in the area.

"We can not rule out the possibility of infiltration. But once the operation is over we will share the details with media," Brar said.

http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2009- ... 052119.htm

Xinhua reporting that a fierce gunfight is taking place

Eenadu report a major and three soldiers were killed. RIP, while 4 terrorists are dead
http://eenadu.net/breakhtml7.asphttp:// ... khtml7.asp

sunilUpa · Post by **sunilUpa** » 22 Mar 2009 19:12

Five soldiers, six militants killed in Kashmir

sum · Post by **sum** » 22 Mar 2009 20:53

Five soldiers killed for six worthless pigs!!!!

RIP to all of them.

SRINAGAR, India (AFP) — Five Indian soldiers and six Muslim rebels were killed in separate gunbattles in Kashmir on Sunday, police said, a day after Pakistani and Indian troops traded fire across the de facto border.

No "suspected rebels" from the AFP this time around? Amazingly that they actually call them muslim rebels and not "suspected rebels/tourists holding guns for fun"(which is a small start)...

Ardeshir · Post by **Ardeshir** » 22 Mar 2009 21:03

Yes, was just about to point out to 'Muslim Rebels'. As if it's a bunch of kids forming opposing factions.
Maybe we should mass mail AFP about this.

Gerard · Post by **Gerard** » 22 Mar 2009 21:25

Point out that these "Muslim rebels" originate in and are citizens of another nation state so therefore cannot be in a state of rebellion against the Indian Union. They are armed foreign civilians (and therefore unlawful combatants under International law) who have entered Indian territory with the intention to murder its citizens. Ask them if they customarily refer to "Muslim rebels" bringing down the twin towers in NYC in 9/11/2001.

RayC · Post by **RayC** » 22 Mar 2009 22:21

Gerard wrote:Point out that these "Muslim rebels" originate in and are citizens of another nation state so therefore cannot be in a state of rebellion against the Indian Union. They are armed foreign civilians (and therefore unlawful combatants under International law) who have entered Indian territory with the intention to murder its citizens. Ask them if they customarily refer to "Muslim rebels" bringing down the twin towers in NYC in 9/11/2001.

Could they call the 9/11 chaps as ''freedom fighters'' ?

Sounds better, at least to the fundamentalists of the Mulsim world.

jamwal · Post by **jamwal** » 23 Mar 2009 10:34

VikasRaina wrote:How would the Govt identify the district to which a particular person belongs ?
Would it be by residence or education or something else ?

Address on documents, State Subject certificate.

Lastly are state govt jobs district specific ?

AFAIK, no

Surya · Post by **Surya** » 23 Mar 2009 18:18

sum

If only you knewa bit more- wait till more details come out.

It is a depressing day.

RIP men

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 23 Mar 2009 18:49

Surya wrote:sum

If only you knewa bit more- wait till more details come out.

It is a depressing day.

RIP men

What happened, did we loose a lot more men? Can you post a link? But indeed, its a sad day.

Surya · Post by **Surya** » 23 Mar 2009 19:36

CRams

encounter still going on

Lost a couple more men -

Since I got it from my friend - don;t want to mention too much - till it trickles out - hopefully we do not lose more

I apologise -

sum · Post by **sum** » 23 Mar 2009 19:42

So, it is seven men lost now?

Are we fighting the SSG/Pak army to have such large causalities despite having numbers and terrain on our side??

Rudradev · Post by **Rudradev** » 24 Mar 2009 03:02

Just a little background reminder to understand what our allies in the "war on terror" are demanding from us, even while Paki troops shell Indian positions and Paki terrorist pigs kill Indian jawans in an encounter.

Gerard wrote:US asks India to support Pakistan on extremists

...

[Steinberg] said India should "look for ways to contribute to an overall environment which can then lead to further efforts to root out extremists.

"There is obviously a complex history between the two countries but we will encourage India to see that it has a big stake in the efforts that we will be advocating to work both with Afghanistan and Pakistan," he said.

He did not go into specifics, but the US Defense Department has said that the Pakistan, suspicious of New Delhi, was sending troops to the Indian border (to provide covering fire for terrorist infiltration into India- Unmentioned) that would be better used fighting extremists in areas bordering Afghanistan....

sanjaykumar · Post by **sanjaykumar** » 24 Mar 2009 04:50

Yaas, blame India for the failure of American policy and military doctrine. Sounds reasonable to me.

Rishi · Post by **Rishi** » 24 Mar 2009 09:44

http://www.dailyexcelsior.com/web1/09mar24/news.htm#1

5 more militants, 4 jawans killed in Kupwara

A total of 11 militants have been killed in the operation so far which began in the early hours of Friday in Chowkibal area near the Line of Control (LoC) in Kupwara district," the spokesman said.

The slain militant has been identified as Sheraz Ahmad resident of Pandochan in Shopian district. One INSAS rifle, one magazine and some empty cartridges were recovered from his possession.

Pranay · Post by **Pranay** » 24 Mar 2009 17:52

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Indi ... 310263.cms

Some more details on the ongoing encounter in Kupwara... Way too many IA troops are getting killed in these encounters...

An army statement said eight soldiers and 16 rebels have so far died in the fighting in Kupwara

The funeral of one of the Indian troops killed in the fighting was also held on Tuesday, with the event well-attended, witnesses said, even though it is rare for residents of Kashmir to honour those fighting for India.

The dead soldier, a Shiite Muslim from a village northeast of Srinagar, died on Monday during heavy exchange of fire with rebels.

shyamd · Post by **shyamd** » 24 Mar 2009 18:50

RIP

Kashmiri relatives of Indian Army soldier Shabir Ahmed Malik mourn during his funeral procession in Dab, some 35 kilometers (22 miles) Northeast of Srinagar, India, Tuesday, March 24, 2009. Malik was killed in an ongoing battle which has claimed seven other army soldiers and sixteen suspected rebels, Lt Col. J.S. Brar of the Indian Army said.
(AP Photo/Dar Yasin)

An Indian army soldier stands guard during the funeral of Shabir Ahmad Malik, a Kashmiri Muslim soldier from the Indian army, in Dab, 35km (21 miles) north of Srinagar March 24, 2009. At least 19 people have been killed after four days of gun fighting between Indian soldiers and Muslim militants in disputed Kashmir near the Pakistan border, the army said on Monday. Four soldiers including Malik and five militants were killed on Monday alone, the army said, the highest number of people killed in a single firefight between Muslim militants and Indian troops in the Himalayan region in the past year. REUTERS/Fayaz Kabli
(INDIAN-ADMINISTERED KASHMIR CONFLICT POLITICS MILITARY)

People gather for the funeral of Shabir Ahmad Malik, a Kashmiri Muslim soldier from the Indian army, in Dab, 35km (21 miles) north of Srinagar March 24, 2009. At least 19 people have been killed after four days of gun fighting between Indian soldiers and Muslim militants in disputed Kashmir near the Pakistan border, the army said on Monday. Four soldiers including Malik and five militants were killed on Monday alone, the army said, the highest number of people killed in a single firefight between Muslim militants and Indian troops in the Himalayan region in the past year. REUTERS/Fayaz Kabli
(INDIAN-ADMINISTERED KASHMIR CONFLICT POLITICS MILITARY)

manish · Post by **manish** » 24 Mar 2009 19:15

Really sad indeed. RIP to all the brave souls. And in continuation of the great IA tradition, officers continue to lead from the front, often paying the ultimate price for their bravery, courage and leadership.

I salute these patriots and pray for their souls.

And in one of the pics that Shyam has posted above from Shabir Ahmad Malik's funeral, note the details printed on the coffin:
No. 9118063 - K
Rank - PTR
Name: Shabir Ahmad Malik
Unit: 1 Para(SF)

May his soul RIP and may his tribe increase.

manish · Post by **manish** » 24 Mar 2009 19:23

My first thoughts were that he was perhaps a RR member. But now that it is revealed that is SF, it magnifies the loss for IA, given that he was a local, he must have been invaluable.
I am not saying a RR soldier's life is any less valuable, but an SF operator, that too a local is not easily replacable.

Very sad indeed. Hope his and the other bereaved families find the strength and courage to get through this. God bless their souls.

sum · Post by **sum** » 24 Mar 2009 19:42

Very heartening to see KMs in the SF and im certain that loosing a SF guy is a huge loss...

I wonder how many more of the dead are SF personnel? This seems to have been a intel led operation (intel indicating the presence of very well trained pigs) if the SF has been involved and 8 soldiers have been lost!!!

manish · Post by **manish** » 24 Mar 2009 19:59

sum wrote:Very heartening to see KMs in the SF and im certain that loosing a SF guy is a huge loss...

I wonder how many more of the dead are SF personnel? This seems to have been a intel led operation (intel indicating the presence of very well trained pigs) if the SF has been involved and 8 soldiers have been lost!!!

Yes indeed.
Ref the intel bit, perhaps it was an op similar to the one you posted about in the Intel thread sumji...Esp since the pigs seem to have been cornered here. Hope the results are better than the one last month where these pigs finally seemed to vanish into thin air.
The sacrifice of the brave patriots must not go waste.

Surya · Post by **Surya** » 24 Mar 2009 20:25

sum wrote:
Very heartening to see KMs in the SF and im certain that loosing a SF guy is a huge loss...

I wonder how many more of the dead are SF personnel? This seems to have been a intel led operation (intel indicating the presence of very well trained pigs) if the SF has been involved and 8 soldiers have been lost!!!

Thats what I wanted to say but did not - waiting for the news to trickle out. - a sad long day for 1 Para.

shyamd · Post by **shyamd** » 24 Mar 2009 20:50

Surya, Do you have any more info about the incident?

Surya · Post by **Surya** » 24 Mar 2009 22:52

shyamd

My friend is in stoic mode right now (which means that men who died did not screw up - and were really good men - just wasn't their day)- So I do not want to push him.

He last email was "stomach in knots, must go on".

shyamd · Post by **shyamd** » 25 Mar 2009 00:37

Surya, I understand.

Thanks.

Pranay · Post by **Pranay** » 25 Mar 2009 03:01

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/7960557.stm

Some more on the Kupwara encounter...

vsudhir · Post by **vsudhir** » 25 Mar 2009 04:46

Kupwara gunbattle ends, 17 militants killed

Eight IA troops gave the supreme sacrifice. RIP.

Seventeen militants and eight Army personnel, including a Major, were killed in the encounter which began on March 20 on higher reaches of the Shamsabari range in Harfada forest, a defence spokesman said.

What is this 'militant' BS? Why can't desi press call jihadist terrorists by their real name? What convention does the vernacular press follow? What does 'militant' translate into Hindi as? 'ugravadi'==extremist. aatankwadi == terrorist.

gashish · Post by **gashish** » 25 Mar 2009 05:04

meanwhile..dhimmitude in delhi continues..

The People of Indus

After a gruesome pogrom and forced exodus of Hindus, villages and towns are being given Islamic names. Now, a bill has been introduced in the J&K assembly by the PDP MLA Peerzada Manzoor Hussain proposing to change the name of the historic Anantnag town to Islamabad. Local Muslim leaders are already using it and even in some state government press releases Islamabad is used in place of Anantnag.

There is a conscious attempt to erode Indian presence in Kashmir. Few would know that officers of the Indian Administrative Service and even those belonging to the Indian Police Service are seldom given charge of a district. They are at best kept at the secretariat for file work. The reason is, politicians decided that the local administration must remain under local Kashmiri Muslims.

But none in Delhi is perturbed by it.

sum · Post by **sum** » 25 Mar 2009 09:22

Some more info about the encounter:
Link

Srinagar: Security forces on Tuesday gunned down five more militants in Kupwara district of Jammu& Kashmir as the fierce gun battles between security forces and militants continued for the fifth day . With this, the death toll of militants in the operation, which commenced on March 20, has reached 16.

Eight Army personnel, including a Major, have so far been killed in the encounter that raged on in the dense forests. Five militants were killed in the Shamshabari ranges in Hafrada forest on Tuesday, a defence spokesman said. Combing operation was on when last reports came in, the spokesman said.

Four soldiers, including Major Mohit Sharma, and two militants, were killed in Hafrada on Saturday. This was followed by another encounter at Tangdhar which left one ultra dead.

Four Army personnel and five militants were killed in Hafrada on Monday. Defence sources said the encounter took place after the security forces were informed that a group of militants had gone to the forest area “to receive a bunch of ultras infiltrating from across the border.” In the first day , three militants were killed in Drangyari in Chowkibal area. — PTI

As expected, the SF were most probably asked to provide a "welcome party" to the guests coming into India based on intel inputs.

However, something seems to have gone wrong and the firefight turned real nasty instead of a simple and short encounter.

Maybe, the pigs were tipped off or they were unexpectedly well trained...

sum · Post by **sum** » 25 Mar 2009 09:23

Surya wrote:
sum wrote:
Very heartening to see KMs in the SF and im certain that loosing a SF guy is a huge loss...

I wonder how many more of the dead are SF personnel? This seems to have been a intel led operation (intel indicating the presence of very well trained pigs) if the SF has been involved and 8 soldiers have been lost!!!

Thats what I wanted to say but did not - waiting for the news to trickle out. - a sad long day for 1 Para.

Dammit....

So, most of the martyred are SF guys?

Avinash R · Post by **Avinash R** » 25 Mar 2009 10:39

Kupwara encounter has restarted.
More firing today.

sum · Post by **sum** » 25 Mar 2009 10:46

This has to be the biggest encounter/confrontation since the Hill-Kaka episode many many years back!!!

I'm certain that huge designs of the Pakis must have been thwarted with this mega operation...

Nihat · Post by **Nihat** » 25 Mar 2009 10:58

If anything this highlights our better detection capabilities now as compared to 10 years back , I do wish that the gear for those who go in for fighting was better equipped with full body bullet and explosive proof cover . The life of and Indian Army soldier should not be so cheap.

Avinash R · Post by **Avinash R** » 25 Mar 2009 11:03

One report says that security forces are going after major inflitration routes and trying to block them permanently. This was one of them. Seems more terrorists are still there and trying to prevent it. The area being mountainous and heavily forested it will take time to fully clear the area.

jamwal · Post by **jamwal** » 25 Mar 2009 11:26

Why do we keep losing so many soldiers like that??

sreeji · Post by **sreeji** » 25 Mar 2009 11:55

The same news twisted beyound recognition by our paki brothers.

Tamang · Post by **Tamang** » 25 Mar 2009 12:26

Lashkar hand in J&K encounter, group warns of more attacks on army

Dilbu · Post by **Dilbu** » 25 Mar 2009 12:56

Militants regrouping to infiltrate into Kashmir: Omar

ashish raval · Post by **ashish raval** » 25 Mar 2009 13:48

jamwal wrote:Why do we keep losing so many soldiers like that??

Your question begs a thought. However, I think the terrain of Kashmir is virtually similar to SWAT and as such difficult to plug the holes unless the whole LOC is guarded 24X7 which is nearly impossible with exhorbitant costs. No army in the world can do this job better than Indian Army. However, if there is a dedicated Army heli Gunships/Drones and a fully Net-Centric operations in place, the Army casulaty can be reduced.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 25 Mar 2009 14:33

we continue to lose more than we should due to this obdurate refusal to use airpower even when the area
is cordoned and secured in a ring like say forest.

or how about atleast using artillery in a grid pattern.

going in man to man just nullifies most of our advantages.

congressi dilli billis dont give a s*** so long as they can suck up to muslim vote bank