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Accordance with relevant laws, regulations and policies, part of the search results were not show.
There is a joke going round in some panda forums-
China's biggest shortcoming is the one-party system, without supervision. Monitor themselves only feasible in the case. That is, there are other forces pose a threat to their survival. For example, Wang Lijun case, regardless of the official talk about, even though some may be true, can not believe, because they fail to prove. You said today was uncovered Wang Lijun engage in torture to extract confessions, but this came to light itself may be a fake. Wen Qiang, before his death say they are deserved, but he also said that he knew than his darker, more corruption, his death will not expose, because if he told the truth, his wife and son with him to death. Wen Qiang died 4 hours closeted with the Wang Lijun, and told Wang Lijun, his fate will be worse than their own. Blacks worse, certainly not Bo Xilai, that he who would be? Communist China in the reform and development process, the size of the officials took the opportunity to corruption, and from generation to generation, the more the greater the greed, getting dark, and the power struggle within the bucket constantly, but also to deceive the people for their political stand and support. The drawbacks of one-party system more clearly the situation Chu, way out of China is democratic reform, if not changed, official corruption and the disparity between the rich and the poor social contradictions will become increasingly intense struggle within the Communist Party as the struggle for power will become increasingly sinister , resulting in continuous social unrest. Go on like this the people will rebel.
Very good question. Let's build on that, shall we? Why do the Chinese keep complaining about the "two centuries of humiliation" or whatever at the hands of the Europeans? The Europeans got what they wanted - they got rich off of China. The ends justify the means, no? If any Europeans were uncomfortable with the way their brothers were treating the Chinese, all they had to do was emigrate (to China? LOL). Or maybe "ends justifying the means" only applies to the Chinese?Theo_Fidel wrote:The key question is can Japan use the same justification when it went all punk a$$ on China. After all it desperately needed resources and the ends justify the means....
This is exactly what Indians are trying to tell you. China steals IP/proliferates nukes/occupies Tibet etc. saying "ends justify means." China will similarly go down as a direct consequence of these actions. Your actions are already causing the rest of the world to band together against you. Remains to be seen what the sequence of events is, which will be explained to future generations as a "quick history lesson."wong wrote:Yes, Japan did get punk a$$ on China and it got Nuked directly for it => TWICE. Quick history lesson: Japan goes punk a$$ on China, US embargoes Japan because of China atrocities, Japan Pearl Harbors US as a response, US fires bombs Japan to hell using incendiaries and tops it off with two fresh Nukes. Sounds good to me. I think the Japanese learned their lesson and I don't think they are going to go punk a$$ on anybody else in our lifetimes.
What's up with the Ching Chong English??Theo_Fidel wrote:Wong,
Why you no emigrate if you no like Japan in China?
Yes, but why did Pearl Harbor happen?? The Japanese just like to randomly attack the world's greatest industrial power of its day??Suraj wrote:Nice historical revisionism going on here. Japan had nukes dropped on it because it invaded China ? Had they just stuck to invading China and not attacked the US on Dec 7 1941, they'd have just been left to loot the mainland, as they were generally enabled to do for an entire decade from the early 1930s. From a Chinese perspective there wasn't any such thing as WW2 - there had been fullscale warfare going on around the country since a decade prior, including such events as Chang Zheng (long march) and subsequently the Mukden (Shenyang) Incident and Japanese takeover. Too bad Tojo and co didn't take heed of Adm.Yamamoto's warning about waking up a sleeping giant (the US).
And who's embargoing China because Tibetans like to self-immolate?? Last I heard every Tibetan in India is under house arrest right now.sudarshan wrote:This is exactly what Indians are trying to tell you. China steals IP/proliferates nukes/occupies Tibet etc. saying "ends justify means." China will similarly go down as a direct consequence of these actions. Your actions are already causing the rest of the world to band together against you. Remains to be seen what the sequence of events is, which will be explained to future generations as a "quick history lesson."wong wrote:Yes, Japan did get punk a$$ on China and it got Nuked directly for it => TWICE. Quick history lesson: Japan goes punk a$$ on China, US embargoes Japan because of China atrocities, Japan Pearl Harbors US as a response, US fires bombs Japan to hell using incendiaries and tops it off with two fresh Nukes. Sounds good to me. I think the Japanese learned their lesson and I don't think they are going to go punk a$$ on anybody else in our lifetimes.
Sudarshan
As much as the US had interests in China and more so elsewhere around the PacRim (e.g. Philippines), it wasn't prepared to initiate war with Japan over it at the time. Domestic political opinion of the kind now enabling such wars did not exist then, more so in the aftermath of the Great Depression. If anything, it had far more interests in Europe, yet stayed out until after Pearl Harbor. History shows that while the US was a willing material contributor to the allied cause in both WW1 and WW2, it took a major attack (e.g. the Lusitania in WW1, Pearl Harbor in WW2) to turn public opinion enough. Absent Dec 7 '41, the US would certainly have materially backed China, but open warfare ? Unlikely. Do Chinese really believe the US nuked Japan to punish it for Nanjing/Unit 731 etc ? Seriously ?wong wrote:Yes, but why did Pearl Harbor happen?? The Japanese just like to randomly attack the world's greatest industrial power of its day??
US nuked Japan because of pearl harbor. Pearl harbor happened because of US oil embargo against Japan. US oil embargo was because Japan went punk a$$ in China. It's a series of cause and effect.Suraj wrote:As much as the US had interests in China and more so elsewhere around the PacRim (e.g. Philippines), it wasn't prepared to initiate war with Japan over it at the time. Domestic political opinion of the kind now enabling such wars did not exist then, more so in the aftermath of the Great Depression. If anything, it had far more interests in Europe, yet stayed out until after Pearl Harbor. Do Chinese really believe the US nuked Japan to punish it for Nanjing/Unit 731 etc ? Seriously ?wong wrote:Yes, but why did Pearl Harbor happen?? The Japanese just like to randomly attack the world's greatest industrial power of its day??
What's there to talk about?? He got canned. His antics pissed his boss off (those 9 guys that rule China). Mao sent his son to the Korean front. Bo sent his son to party at Harrow and Oxford. The guy was obviously a hypocrite.gakakkad wrote:the chinese posters are largely silent on the bo xilai incident.. may be they are not authorised to speak.. may be they fear , the famous luxury van .
Several years too late - Roosevelt signed the embargo in July 1941 - China had already been under Japanese rule for several years, with atrocities like Nanjing already known. Pearl Harbor attack was not an isolated attack either - it was an early gambit of the Japanese Dutch East Indies campaign, focused on grabbing the Indonesian oilfields. Pearl Harbor itself was to cripple the Pacific Fleet to prevent them from retaliating, though they forgot the carriers and hit the battleships.wong wrote:US nuked Japan because of pearl harbor. Pearl harbor happened because of US oil embargo against Japan. US oil embargo was because Japan went punk a$$ in China. It's a series of cause and effect.
July 1941 is before Pearl Harbor. Before that "In 1940, Japan invaded French Indochina in an effort to control supplies reaching China. The United States halted shipments of airplanes, parts, machine tools, and aviation gasoline, which was perceived by Japan as an unfriendly act." Clearly a series of cause and effect and escalating to Japan getting Nuked and occupied. Again, no one believes Japan has the appetite or demographics to go "punk a$$" on anybody else today.Suraj wrote:Several years too late - Roosevelt signed the embargo in July 1941 - China had already been under Japanese rule for several years, with atrocities like Nanjing already known. Pearl Harbor attack was not an isolated attack either - it was an early gambit of the Japanese Dutch East Indies campaign, focused on grabbing the Indonesian oilfields. Pearl Harbor itself was to cripple the Pacific Fleet to prevent them from retaliating, though they forgot the carriers and hit the battleships.wong wrote:US nuked Japan because of pearl harbor. Pearl harbor happened because of US oil embargo against Japan. US oil embargo was because Japan went punk a$$ in China. It's a series of cause and effect.
See, this is the difference between your short-term view and long-term views. You look at the present, and you say "nothing has happened to China until now, we are fine, the ends have justified the means." You don't see it as an evolving situation, which will continue to evolve over the next 10, 50, or 200 years. And I'm telling you that in the long term, there will always be consequences. Always. And yes, I do know that the Tibet situation started 50 years ago, in 1959.wong wrote:And who's embargoing China because Tibetans like to self-immolate?? Last I heard every Tibetan in India is under house arrest right now.sudarshan wrote:
This is exactly what Indians are trying to tell you. China steals IP/proliferates nukes/occupies Tibet etc. saying "ends justify means." China will similarly go down as a direct consequence of these actions. Your actions are already causing the rest of the world to band together against you. Remains to be seen what the sequence of events is, which will be explained to future generations as a "quick history lesson."
Sudarshan
Oh, a sanction here and an embargo there, and a wink and a nod to KMT, a lend-lease program elsewhere... was all the US was inclined upon at the time. Keep in mind that 5 years after nuking Japan, the US was busy helping Japan rebuild and turn into Asia's postwar economic powerhouse through massive trading orders and supplies requests, while on the task of fighting a war with... China. By your logic we could tenuously argue that the US bombed Hiroshima/Nagasaki so it could later kill a few million Chinese conscripts. Cause and effect, and all that.wong wrote:July 1941 is before Pearl Harbor. Before that "In 1940, Japan invaded French Indochina in an effort to control supplies reaching China. The United States halted shipments of airplanes, parts, machine tools, and aviation gasoline, which was perceived by Japan as an unfriendly act."
No, no, no. That is your logic. It certainly isn't mine. The Korean War isn't part of WWII, at least not in any text book I've ever scene. WW2, US was fighting fascism. Korean War, US was fighting a proxy war against communism. Not the same ballpark. Not even the same sport.Suraj wrote:Oh, a sanction here and an embargo there, and a wink and a nod to KMT, a lend-lease program elsewhere... was all the US was inclined upon at the time. Keep in mind that 5 years after nuking Japan, the US was busy helping Japan rebuild and turn into Asia's postwar economic powerhouse through massive trading orders and supplies requests, while on the task of fighting a war with... China. By your logic we could tenuously argue that the US bombed Hiroshima/Nagasaki so it could later kill a few million Chinese conscripts. Cause and effect, and all that.wong wrote:July 1941 is before Pearl Harbor. Before that "In 1940, Japan invaded French Indochina in an effort to control supplies reaching China. The United States halted shipments of airplanes, parts, machine tools, and aviation gasoline, which was perceived by Japan as an unfriendly act."
Those vans are doing wonders in improving China's H&D, along with generous 401k buy back from, er, "newly approved widows" by big cuddly Govt.gakakkad wrote:the chinese posters are largely silent on the bo xilai incident.. may be they are not authorised to speak.. may be they fear , the famous luxury van .
Yuan was put to death just fifteen minutes after the sentence was pronounced , together with his brother, Yuan Baoqi, and cousin, Yuan Baosen. He was the wealthiest convict to be executed in PRC history.
Yuan was found guilty of the murder in January 2005 and was due to die by firing squad on October 14, 2005. After the date passed and the sentence was not carried out, it was rumoured that the day before the execution date his wife transferred ownership of shares worth 49.5 billion yuan to the government. The assets comprised equities including a 40 percent stake in an Indonesian oil company held by Yuan through a Hong Kong firm. Another conjecture of the reason was Yuan revealed misconducts of a high ranking Liaoning official
I don't know what kind of world history they teach in your country, but the 2nd Sino-Japanese War is definitely considered part of WW2.Suraj wrote:To paraphrase Deng, what does it matter whether the war is against fascism or communism to the poor sucker on the wrong side of the barrel ? In any case the Japanese occupation of China was not WW2 either but youre fine with viewing cause and effect there.
You're Ching Chonging too much for anyone to understand.Theo_Fidel wrote:Wong,
What you still no emigrate.
After all if you don't like things your solution is to emigrate, No. After all that is the option the vast majority of Ching Chong Chinese have as well, right. Talk about unfeeling callousness. What a ding dong.
Local conflict?? Is that what your education system teaches you??Suraj wrote:Second ? Never mind the fact that you pick just one of two conflicts, it's not even definitively considered the beginning of WW2 - the invasion of Poland by the Wehrmacht in Sept 1939 is the standard definition. China had been roiled in internal civil war and intermittently fighting the Japanese much before that, but that was at best a local conflict no one else got involved with directly, beyond token gestures.
Your ability to debate is really questionable. Inserting words in my mouth is just intellectually dishonest. Saying China didn't fight in WW2, as someone here claims, is just factually wrong. I never said Hiroshima was to avenge Nanking. I said Japanese atrocities lead to American sanctions which then lead to Pearl Harbor. All in the same conflict. No Korean War, No Vietnam War, No 1962 or any other lame straw man you can drag in.Theo_Fidel wrote:Lets point out the crazy twisted mind at work here. The Gleat Lepublic was unable to teach the Nipponese a lesson and hence the USA attack at Hiroshima is now a 'revenge for Nanjing'. Truly a complete re-writing of history. And he said it with ‘book learning’ conviction so this really is the history lesson in Pandaland. So in the Panda wonderland telling, the great Chinese God in the sky told to USA, Thou must drop Fat Boy and Little Man on Japan to revenge me of Nanjing and USA went forth and did so as an arm of the Gleat Lepublic.
What a crock.
Incredible. Revision after revision after revision on the same page no less. Panda wonderland. So now Nanjing was not part of atrocities so you just let Japan off for one of the crimes of the century. I hope your overlords know. Hundred lashes and 'Sent down' for re-education you shall...wong wrote: Japan goes punk a$$ on China, US embargoes Japan because of China atrocities, Japan Pearl Harbors US as a response,....
Theo_Fidel wrote:Incredible. Revision after revision after revision on the same page no less. Panda wonderland.wong wrote: Japan goes punk a$$ on China, US embargoes Japan because of China atrocities, Japan Pearl Harbors US as a response,....
And your proof is what??Theo_Fidel wrote:Oh to be that blind..... and clueless...
History just rolled over and died in shame.
The Sino-Japanese war was a local conflict until Dec 7 '41 conspired to turn Japan into someone else's wartime enemy, not because the atrocities in mainland China, as regrettable as they were, made China an ally. While the US and UK fought a ground war in Europe, Africa, Middle East and even SE Asia, it didn't fight one in China - it just threw Chiang a few bones to keep the Japanese busy with. The one major country in Asia that did stop the Japanese in their tracks in all out war was, of course, India.wong wrote:Local conflict?? Is that what your education system teaches you??Suraj wrote:China had been roiled in internal civil war and intermittently fighting the Japanese much before that, but that was at best a local conflict no one else got involved with directly, beyond token gestures.
I hope you do know that if it wasn't for the stupidity of Nehru, even that permanent seat in UNSC would not have been given to China.wong wrote: The clearest indicator that the 2nd Sino-Japanese War (yes 2nd, the first was over Korea) is not a "local conflict" and part of WW2 is China's permanent security council seat with veto power in the United Nations.
+100. It is indeed being taught and is very similar to the manufactured history that's taught in Pakistan. No wonder they are traller than mountains, dleeper than oceans friends.Theo_Fidel wrote:FWIW I suspect this crap is being taught in Chinese schools as reality. We are merely getting a glimpse of what passes for reality in Panda Wonderland. Fire away Mr Wong, Fire away.
Well, the Japanese response to the embargoes was Pearl Harbor (what I've been saying for like the 5th time) and the rest, as they say, is history.Suraj wrote: Had the Japanese responded by just being a nuisance to US PacRim interests the way US embargoes were to them