Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 03, 2010

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Gus
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 03, 20

Post by Gus »

Anujan wrote:Pretty enlightening article on why honor killings are so prevalent: So pretty much if the victim's relatives "Forgive" the killer -- he goes scott free!!
Typically its the woman who gets killed (shot or hanged if its urban setting or literally stoned if its tribal areas). In "Pashtunwali", if a man elopes with a woman and they are caught, the woman is killed and the man's family has to give two girls to the woman's family. The men can't stand the 'taunting' of their 'honor'. So they kill the women...

the 'noble savages' are such brave people indeed...
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 03, 20

Post by ramana »

Avik wrote:
Gwadar was certainly a significant component of the 'String of Pearls'. The lease temporarily went to PSA and with rapidly deteriorating security situation in Pakistan, it is high time the Chinese thought of recovering the important port. Under the guise of commercial operations, PLAN can have an innocuous presence. Besides, PLAN is beginning to have extensive operations abutting pirate-infested Yemen-Somalia coastlines. A nearby Gwadar base will come very handy.
SSridhar: Control over Gwadar provides PLAN + PN the ability to choke off oil supplies from the Persian Gulf. Gwadar is literally next door to the Gulf waterways and PLAN can use Gwadar as a staging post to counter any attempt to choke the Malacca Straits.
Eaxctly and why would uncle like to have PRC sitting at the mouth of the Persian Gulf? It again points to collusion as I had earlier argued. Its all psy-ops to lull India. Asian control is slowly being handed over to PRC.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 03, 20

Post by chetak »

ramana wrote: quote="Avik" Gwadar was certainly a significant component of the 'String of Pearls'. The lease temporarily went to PSA and with rapidly deteriorating security situation in Pakistan, it is high time the Chinese thought of recovering the important port. Under the guise of commercial operations, PLAN can have an innocuous presence. Besides, PLAN is beginning to have extensive operations abutting pirate-infested Yemen-Somalia coastlines. A nearby Gwadar base will come very handy.

SSridhar: Control over Gwadar provides PLAN + PN the ability to choke off oil supplies from the Persian Gulf. Gwadar is literally next door to the Gulf waterways and PLAN can use Gwadar as a staging post to counter any attempt to choke the Malacca Straits.

Eaxctly and why would uncle like to have PRC sitting at the mouth of the Persian Gulf? It again points to collusion as I had earlier argued. Its all psy-ops to lull India. Asian control is slowly being handed over to PRC.

Guys,

Rest assured that many countries have already factored this han initiative into their energy security scenarios.

Many " string of pearls" ports will be taken out in the initial stage itself leaving the hans red faced as all these pearls are located in non han territories.

Can the hans declare war on the US for taking out hambantota with a few midget subs and a bunch of Navy seals???
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 03, 20

Post by RajeshA »

ramana wrote:Eaxctly and why would uncle like to have PRC sitting at the mouth of the Persian Gulf? It again points to collusion as I had earlier argued. Its all psy-ops to lull India. Asian control is slowly being handed over to PRC.
Or there is some shadow boxing going on with USA not wanting to appear too antagonistic towards PRC, in an area of influence and strategic interest to both (Pakistan), out of fear that open resistance to PRC could threaten Pakistan's current support in GWOT.

When Afghanistan winds down, only then can one know for sure, if USA is willing to give PRC the reigns of Asia.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 03, 20

Post by Lalmohan »

i think not, Unkil doesn't like rivals
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 03, 20

Post by shiv »

The length of the Karakoram highway in Pakistan is 800 km
From Islamabad to Karachi it is 1100 km
Karachi Gwadar is 700 km

Total distance to Chinese border is 2600 km

In 2009 China cancelled its refinery plans in Gwadar. The main problem is political instability in Balochistan. The route passes through several politically unstable places. Pakistan itself is politically unstable.

Ironically political instability in Pakistan revolves around the need to compete with India. Peace with India would make it easier for Pakistan to make sh1tloads of money from all these projects.

Pakistan wants
1) Rivalry with India
2) Money from Chinese investments, transport and pipelines

Definitely feasible if there is political stability in Pakistan...
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 03, 20

Post by Lalmohan »

well, to create stability, its in unkil and dragon's mutual interest to complete palkanisation, carve out relatively stable operating zones and secure transit routes. that doesnt imply that unkil and dragon will not compete to achieve that aim

of course there are the pre-requisites of bums to take care of... dragon might not have left them lying around any more, especially if it is planning to intervene more strongly
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 03, 20

Post by ramana »

And to keep them from falling into US hands!
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 03, 20

Post by jamwal »

What's wrong in hating religion or any particular one?
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 03, 20

Post by archan »

jamwal wrote:What's wrong in hating religion or any particular one?
Nothing. It is none of my business who hates what and loves what. My concern is limited to what is expressed on BRF. Anyone having further questions and concerns on this issue can email me at arch.brf at gmail and if there are issues with my moderation work, the webmasters are also available by email. However, this thread should not be derailed any further. This is why I did not respond to you, Suppiah. If you care much about it, email me.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 03, 20

Post by krisna »

Shiv,
Ironically political instability in Pakistan revolves around the need to compete with India. Peace with India would make it easier for Pakistan to make sh1tloads of money from all these projects.
Pakistan wants
1) Rivalry with India
2) Money from Chinese investments, transport and pipelines
Definitely feasible if there is political stability in Pakistan...
^^^^
wrt gwadar Shiv is right in saying TSP can reap the benefits only when it is stable. It makes amends with its provinces. It can be dangerous to India as china will be all over Indian land borders (west north and east). Once that is set in motion, TSP monkeying will increase on India as any attack on TSP will disrupt china economic security- tantamount to war with china—the 2 front war. India is at a losing side with or without peace.
Avik,
Control over Gwadar provides PLAN + PN the ability to choke off oil supplies from the Persian Gulf. Gwadar is literally next door to the Gulf waterways and PLAN can use Gwadar as a staging post to counter any attempt to choke the Malacca Straits.
Ramana
Eaxctly and why would uncle like to have PRC sitting at the mouth of the Persian Gulf? It again points to collusion as I had earlier argued. Its all psy-ops to lull India. Asian control is slowly being handed over to PRC.
Avik rightly points out saying that gwadar is right next door to Persian gulf. It can block the gulf easily and watch over it. Over 40% of world oil supplies go through it.
Ramana says that US is slowly withdrawing from asia giving the baton to china.

There are a few reasons why it may not necessarily be so---
Iran is next door to TSP. China and Iran are friends and defy sanctions led by US. China in gwadar negates US efforts on Iran. Israel and other gulf countries will be deep trouble if Iran economy improves and militarily gets help from china. US will be hard pressed to explain it to the KSA. they are the guarantors of the kingdom. Giving $60 billions weapons may not be enough.
for China-- it has to make friends with all in gulf. It also gets oil from other gulf countries. Pissing off KSA and neighbours can mean a xinjaing blowback with loss of oil.
How will US agree to china being in gwadar with Iran on bad books of US and Gulf and Israel?.

Avik says the gwadar will be escape the choke points in Malacca straits. Only India in asia has the capability to take on china if push comes to a shove. Both ports are within range of Indian forces.(In fact entire string of pearls- energy security of china)


How can India stave off the potential danger to its security from TSP and panda?
How not to exit afghanistan posted earlier in this thread
India should also revisit its position on the Durand Line. It may be worthwhile for us to signal that we do not necessarily recognise the Durand Line as a legitimate frontier between Afghanistan and Pakistan. Aligning India with long-standing Pakhtoon aspirations may be a potentially potent lever to use as the new version of the Great Game unfolds in our neighbourhood.By doing this, we signal to pashtuns that we are with you on this.
TSP does not want this to happen as it will balkanize the TSP. once this happens baluchis and other provinces may also ask for it. Pakjabis may not like it—leading to intercine civil war.
China had relations with pashtuns and TSP. By forcing china to take sides it will be interesting duel.
USA wants to withdraw- likely it may station some troops in north western parts of afghanisthan away from pashtuns. They may like to keep a watch on Iran and china (not getting access to gwadar)

POK to be taken by India- this is again is possible only by breaking TSP. Otherwise India will be in danger of china helping TSP as long as its economic security is not in jeopardy. TSP will ask for china help 400% positive. No doubts on this regards. It benefits china as TSP takes on India.
China has a policy of not interfering on any nations politics. But will interfere if its economic jewels are attacked which will happen when war breaks between India and TSP inevitably the way TSP is behaving.

Overall in whatever way we see breaking TSP is a low cost cheaper option than any other military adventure. Even if china and US are in collusion, breaking TSP is the only way forward to ensure our survival.(if TSP is intact India will have greater terrorists attacks as TSP economy will improve with oil pipelines money and is militarily secure with panda and US help)
This will be against the policy of uncle and panda. but it is the survival of India and its core interest.
India can offset the whole thing by going along with US so that it can drop the condom state and tag along with India.(again quoting KS artcle- countering china
Even while retaining Russia as a friend in the Asian context, India has to develop a new balance of power equation to deal with the challenge from China and Pakistan not merely to our external security but to our national development as a pluralistic, secular and democratic nation. India too has its ancient strategic wisdom, preached in the Panchatantra, Hitopadesa and Arthasastra, encompassing sama (cooperation), dhana (buying up), bedha (causing division) and dhanda (use of force). It is time to invoke that ancient wisdom and devise an appropriate international strategy to counter the Chinese-Pakistani challenge.
It is tough times for India. But we will do it. 8)
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 03, 20

Post by Prem »

Lets just hope that those 120K Indian consulates have made enough taller and deeeper friends among Pushtun tribes to repay the debt of Frontier Gandhi and free his people from Poakjabroachs. I have this feeling that Great Game of Poakhanta has been Sriganeshed on Ganeshjyanti.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 03, 20

Post by Brad Goodman »

Times Square Bomber’s Alleged Money-Handler Indicted
A Long Island, New York, man who operated an unlicensed money transfer business between the U.S. and Pakistan has been charged with providing funds to Times Square bomber Faisal Shahzad, prosecutors said.
There is a huge hawala business run by pakis courtesy Jawed Miandads relative based in clifton. If they have tentacles all the way in US and Europe imagine how much money they must be moving from gulf region. I am sure lots of Indian might be using these sources directly or indirectly. Dont know if unkil is serious of traking and shutting this shop. I mean after they got sehzaad they nabbed this operator in a week. I am not sure what was stopping them before to put him behind bars or even better dispatch him to his 72
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 03, 20

Post by r_subramanian »

Haqqani cousin killed in Tuesday's drone strike
An Afghan Taliban commander and close relative of Afghan warlord Sirajuddin Haqqani was among those killed in a recent US missile strike, Pakistani security officials said Wednesday.
...
"Afghan Taliban commander Saifullah travelled to the region from Afghanistan three days ago and was killed in yesterday's US missile strike," a senior security official in the area told AFP.
The information was based on intelligence intercepts, the official said.
He described Saifullah as the first cousin of Sirajuddin Haqqani, who runs the Haqqani network created by his father, Afghan warlord Jalaluddin Haqqani.
...
link
Does this amount a setback for Pakistan's plans in Afghanistan?
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 03, 20

Post by abhishek_sharma »

Has the MEA protested Pakistani comments on events in J&K? I can't find any statement on MEA's website.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 03, 20

Post by archan »

abhishek_sharma wrote:Has the MEA protested Pakistani comments on events in J&K? I can't find any statement on MEA's website.
you wish. :roll:
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 03, 20

Post by Airavat »

Statistics of the flood relief aid
Pakistan has received over a billion dollars (about 85 billion rupees) in relief goods, grants and soft loans from the international community, according to the latest data available from the Economic Affairs Division of the Ministry of Finance. ‘in-kind’ relief comprises roughly 70 per cent of the aid committed. So far, one-third of this aid has already arrived, including food, water, clothing, shelter kits, tents and medicines. A little less than 30 per cent of the aid comes in the form of grants, primarily monetary aid, committed for specific projects.

62 per cent of the Tsunami’s and one-third of Haiti’s pledges came from private individuals and organisations, compared with a mere 12 per cent in the case of present floods. While we seem to have moved foreign governments, we have apparently not been able to stir up the philanthropy of foreign individuals, who tend to be more generous than their governments.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 03, 20

Post by Rudradev »

Lalmohan wrote:i think not, Unkil doesn't like rivals
Actually the Clinton-Wilsonians (Warren Christopher, Madeleine Albright and their mentor Zbigniew Brzezinski) are very much in favour of the whole G2 setup. They have concerns about the US becoming overstretched, and would rather share the responsibility of ensuring that the world is safe for free market capitalism with a like-minded (at least in economic terms) stakeholder. Ultimately this bunch of policymakers would rather focus on ensuring continuing US dominance over the Western world, particularly the EU and the Middle East, while restraining any Russian resurgence. They are quite happy to let China have continental Asia (any eastward ambitions Beijing may nurse are hemmed in along the Pacific Rim by Japan, ROK and Australia after all.)
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 03, 20

Post by Suppiah »

archan wrote: However, this thread should not be derailed any further. This is why I did not respond to you, Suppiah. If you care much about it, email me.
Point made, taken, matter closed.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 03, 20

Post by anupmisra »

Time to rethink India policy

The author must be a RAA Agent. Some nuggets:
Even in this hour of crisis nothing has changed in Islamabad’s perception of our friends and foes. India continues to hold the position of Enemy Number One.
To the satisfaction of our policymakers, conspiracy theorists on the electronic media have squarely blamed ‘arch enemy’ India for the floods.
Blinded by their pathological hatred of India they failed to look up the map. The rivers that caused the greatest suffering do not have their source in Indian territory.
Suffering from a deficit of common sense we allowed the warmongers to whip up frenzy against the ‘enemies’ lurking in our neighbourhood.
There were insinuations that this amount was paltry. But the official websites show that India’s aid offer exceeds what has been provided by 35 donors, many of them touted as our friends.
But if Pakistan is to survive there has to be some rethinking of our India policy.
The unconditional support of its all-weather friend China can no longer be taken for granted. Beijing is now a world actor in global politics and it would not jeopardise its own interests for Pakistan’s whimsical geopolitical strategy of playing “both ally and enemy” to the US with regard to the Taliban.
With Afghanistan President Karzai now positioning himself to hold a dialogue with the Taliban, Islamabad will find itself isolated. It is Pakistan’s ill-judged quest for strategic depth — considered essential to wage a successful war against India — that is driving us to such illogical ends.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 03, 20

Post by Mauli »

Aamer gets Musharraf support!

“It is a very sad incident,” he told reporters in Hong Kong after addressing an annual investors’ forum.

“Anyone involved has to be punished... But (Aamer’s) case, I feel, needs to be seen compassionately... :lol: He comes from a poor family. Destroying him would destroy his family.”

Pakistan’s former leader, who said he plans to stand for parliament in the country’s next general election in 2013, said Aamer is a “great cricketer” and “we must not allow cricket to lose”.

“(Aamer) came under the influence of senior players,” Musharraf added.

http://www.telegraphindia.com/1100916/j ... 943428.jsp
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 03, 20

Post by abhishek_sharma »

The Battle for Afghanistan and Pakistan
A Threat Assessment of al-Qaeda and its Allies

PARTICIPANTS

Featured Speakers
Shuja Nawaz
Author, Crossed Swords: Pakistan, its Army, and the Wars Within
Director, South Asia Center, Atlantic Council

Michael Waltz
Former advisor to Vice President Dick Cheney on South Asia and Counterterrorism
Major, U.S. Army (reserve component)

Peter Bergen
Author, Holy War Inc. and The Osama bin Laden I Know
Co-director, Counterterrorism Strategy Initiative, New America Foundation

Moderator
Susan Glasser
Editor-in-chief, Foreign Policy Magazine

http://www.newamerica.net/events/2010/a ... d_pakistan
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 03, 20

Post by abhishek_sharma »

Pakistani immigrant charged with unwittingly funding NY bomb plot

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/worl ... 563030.cms
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 03, 20

Post by abhishek_sharma »

Pakistanis Ask What a Lynching Means

http://thelede.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/0 ... ing-means/
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 03, 20

Post by shiv »

krisna wrote: TSP can reap the benefits only when it is stable. It makes amends with its provinces. It can be dangerous to India as china will be all over Indian land borders (west north and east). Once that is set in motion, TSP monkeying will increase on India as any attack on TSP will disrupt china economic security- tantamount to war with china—the 2 front war.
Generally agreed with some caveats
1) The economy of Pakistan either has to come like other nations - ie. Agriculture, industry, services, tourism or it can come by merely sitting astride major trade routes and collecting rent.

2) The development of agriculture, industry services etc requires good governance if it is to come over a huge land with over 100 million people. This has been achieved somewhat only in China using a totalitarian political system that actually reduced inequality and brought education and infrastructure to far out provinces. India is in the process of doing it as is Brazil. No other nation with a population of >100 million has done it yet. Bangladesh is trying. Pakistan has been marking time and not moving forward in governance as its popualtion has incerased from less than 100 million (for West Pakistan) to 170-80 million now)

3) Pakistanis ( a minority ruling elite) have continuously only collected rent. They collect rent for transport of opium. They are collecting rent for transport from the US. They want to collect rent from an Iran India gas pipeline. They want to collect rent from China for transport - a recent report suggested that some Pakis are looking forward to 1 billion USD a year from China.

4) A rent collection economy that does not involve human development is possible only if the Pakistani army can provide security for the goods being transported. If the Pakistan army cannot provide security to every mile of road, railway and pipeline - tribes and villagers in remote areas will stop the transport and loot, or minor officials in those areas will collect further "unofficial " rent. This is in fact what is happening in Pakistan

5) The Pakistani army has to be strong to protect roads and pipelines. The Pakistani army is strong. But protecting those roads and pipelines and collecting rent cannot be done at the same time (and cost) as fighting India. If 75% of the army is tied up at the Indian border - the pipeline rent collection becomes inefficient and transport costly. This is what the US has found out and China is beginning to find out.

6) If you are "sensible" about Pakistan's economic capabilities their best bet for trade is with India. Not China. China needs to export, not import (other than oil/gas/minerals). Pakistan only has agricultural goods to export and this easiest if they only have to travel a short distance to a market willing to buy them as has occurred for centuries. India is actually the wisest choice for trade. The US knows this as does India as do many Pakistani traders. It is the elite and the rent collecting army who do not need this trade for their survival who now know it is too late to do an about turn without destroying themselves. But their destruction or at least disempowerment is needed. The US and China can support the Paki army indefinitely, but they cannot support 170 million plus indefinitely.

7) As long as the ruling elite and army of Pakistan hinge their own stability on rivalry with India, India can control Pakistan's stability (provided India ensures its own stability and all the inputs needed for that). A lot of people are now realising this. The Paki elite and army used to be the main hindrance to normalization of relations - but they have gone one step ahead and have brought in Islamization as a bulwark against India. Those Islamists will not allow detente with India and will attack the Paki army an elite if anything normalization is attempted. I suspect this cancer affects the rank and file of the Pakistan army too, who will not normalize relations with India without serious loss of morale.

8 ) None of this is good for Pakistan. It is not good for the US but the US is sitting in Pakistan protecting its supply routes partially. It certainly will not allow China to have free and unhindered access to the Indian ocean.

If Pakistan makes peace with India everyone will come out better - although Pakistan will be relegated to its true status - an overcrowded country of little consequence that is no more than a chronically sick fragment of 19th century India. No amount of rivalry of Sun Tzu can rival this solution. Even the Chinese will one day develop the brains to figure this out.

This will require:
1) A winding down of the Pakistan army's power
2) Sending Islamists to houriland.
3) Re education and demilitarization of Pakistanis
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 03, 20

Post by Prem »

If all things remain same , it will be real happy and dandy in all You Can Inbreed Poakland once population double from current 170 M to 340 in next 20 years. Hope they survive and double the population again by 2050-2055. India can wait and do just fine by securing ,checking the overflow of Poakroches from WESTside. The ~700~ Million Poaks with PCI of 200$ per annuam and dreaming about La Qilla and Khilafat will be the best revenge and excellent sight to behold as well great civilizational victory.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 03, 20

Post by vic »

shiv wrote:The length of the Karakoram highway in Pakistan is 800 km
From Islamabad to Karachi it is 1100 km
Karachi Gwadar is 700 km

Total distance to Chinese border is 2600 km

In 2009 China cancelled its refinery plans in Gwadar. The main problem is political instability in Balochistan. The route passes through several politically unstable places. Pakistan itself is politically unstable.

Ironically political instability in Pakistan revolves around the need to compete with India. Peace with India would make it easier for Pakistan to make sh1tloads of money from all these projects.

Pakistan wants
1) Rivalry with India
2) Money from Chinese investments, transport and pipelines

Definitely feasible if there is political stability in Pakistan...
Also Add around 3000km inside China. Truck movement of around 5000km over rough terrain is not exactly piece of cake for charting economical routes.

China is "forced into" charting a string of pearls or long railways/roads to connect to Middle-east, India has a simply pathway through Indian Ocean

Traditionally Indian footprint through peninsular India was towards South East Asia as Middle east was only a desert in those days. Now peninsular India will/can/should connect both ways to SE Asia and ME Asia

We should give up the obsession to link North India to ME or Central Asia as this job can be done through peninsular ndia
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 03, 20

Post by abhishek_sharma »

What the new Zawahiri tape means

http://afpak.foreignpolicy.com/posts/20 ... tape_means
Al-Zawahiri singles out Pakistan in particular for criticism, which is not surprising considering al Qaeda's rhetorical focus on the south Asian state since the 2007 Lal Masjid (Red Mosque) incident that catalyzed anger among anti-Pakistani militants in the Federally Administered Tribal Areas (FATA). Pointing to a variety of standard failures by the Pakistani government, al-Zawahiri also mentions its poor response to the floods ravaging the country and accuses the Pakistani "ruling class" of preventing jihadis from waging war in Kashmir.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 03, 20

Post by sum »

The granddaddy of WKKs speaketh:
An Indo-Pak axis?
In life and in games, we, the people of India and of Pakistan are brothers. I received an email communication from my son in the US quoting the ‘Miami Herald’ newspaper. It gave a glowing account of Aisam-UI-Haq Qureshi, the Pakistani, and Rohan Bopanna, the Indian, playing together as a doubles team in the US Open tennis, which inspired me to write this piece.

I salute Bopanna and Qureshi, the two great stars playing tennis with superlative brilliance. They are a marvel and a model of statesmanship for the politicians of India and Pakistan. I appeal to the political tribes of the two countries to play the great game of Indo-Pak friendship in Jammu & Kashmir’s bleeding fields.

Today, they kill each other, not the politicians but the soldiers, day after day adding to the number of cadavers, both with the same red blood aggravating bitterness. The alternative is obvious. We can be strong twins of South East Asia if we play together instead of destroying each other to the profit of the ‘big business’ of the USA who sell weaponry to both the countries. The foreign ministers of the two countries must stop this suicidal game and follow the glorious example of Bopanna and Qureshi, the great young patriots of the two countries.
:-?
What we need today is what was mentioned to me by Nijalingappa, the one-time Congress president.

Soon after independence, the Jammu & Kashmir state became the scene of bitter battles between India and Pakistan and assumed communal flare-ups with no prospect of termination of killings. As a statesman, Nijalingappa thought that the only way to end the war and the flood of blood of both brethren of the two nations was to make the line of effective control the formal international line of division with sovereignty on both sides.

He was unwilling to express this view publicly as a politician and desired me to do it. He conveyed it to me through my friend Chief Justice of Karnataka. But not being a politician I did not venture to make a public policy statement of such importance since I belonged to no party.

After a few score of years, the butchery and bloodshed have continued with no end in sight to the carnage. China is supporting Pakistan covertly and the USA is granting large sums of money to Pakistan surely knowing it will be used in the Kashmir war to buy arms. India also expending its scarce resources on buying arms from many foreign big businesses, including the US was a costly experiment.

Today, I firmly believe Nijalingappa's formula is a practical measure that deserves serious consideration and acceptance. Let us end the war lest both sides suffer further vast casualties and innocent Kashmiris become colossal victims of this horrendous fratricidal clashes. Sanity has difficult chance of acceptance when tension is mounting and how dangerous when both sides have nuclear weapons, history will prove astronomically.

Jinnah’s wish

I once again pray to the presidents and the prime ministers of India and Pakistan to remember what Jinnah long ago said in a speech: “We are a nation with our own distinctive culture and civilisation, language and literature, art and architecture, names and nomenclature, sense of values and proportion, legal laws and moral codes, customs and calendar, history and traditions, aptitudes and ambitions. In short, we have our own distinctive outlook on life and of life. By all cannons of international law we are a nation.”

On a later occasion he said: “India is not a nation, we are told. We were one people when the great war was going on and an appeal was made to India for blood and money. We were a people when we were asked to be a signatory to the peace treaty in France. But the imperialist Britain made us two people fighting each other.”

“Alas, the time has come for us to be together again in a creative confederacy of historic comity composed of Delhi-Srinagar and Islamabad. Politics in both countries is poison. We have politicians but no statesman and this generates malignancy and forbids unity, fraternity and common humanity from the two instrumentalities namely the executive and the legislature branches.”

“So, I turn my fervent plea to the judiciary. Kindly do fraternal justice to our two people who were once a single population. We must have judges from both countries meet together and discuss common issues on August 14 and 15 every year since we became free together from British imperialism.”

It would be an extraordinary experiment if politics will permit us to have a special bench consisting of the Chief Justices of India and Pakistan and their two senior most brethren. Six judges to hear the nationally important cases with the consent of the parties and the national bars at the supreme court level.

This may seem fantastic. But I have a vague recollection of a long ago visit to Kenya where I was told that four independent east African countries had a common appellate court manned by European judges. Then why not India and Pakistan? We can promote a great cause of the people of both the countries affirming their faith in the judicial institutions of the two countries.

Similarly the Indian and Pakistani bars should hold conferences periodically when issues of common concern will be discussed including the feasibility of an Indo-Pak bench for a few rare cases sitting in Delhi and Islamabad. Why not such a bench to hear cases from Jammu and Kashmir in appeal from J&K high court? :roll: :roll:

This looks incredible but if the judges and advocates of our two countries campaign for its feasibility we can make it a reality. A change of heart will reverse history and save lives instead of continued slaughter, butchery and terrorism.
In which world do these WKKs live?
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 03, 20

Post by Anujan »

GP's article in the Pioneer is unusually blunt (about China)
http://www.dailypioneer.com/283381/Inac ... nswer.html

Few in New Delhi have bothered to seriously note that China has backed Pakistan’s efforts to block US-sponsored moves since 2007 in the UN Security Council to declare Hafiz Mohammed Saeed’s Jamaat-ud-Dawa’h as an international terrorist organisation. China also appears to have struck a deal with pro-Taliban warlord Gulbuddin Hekmatyar to ensure its citizens working on its investments in copper mining in north-eastern Afghanistan are not attacked.

Following the 26/11 terrorist outrage, Chinese ‘scholars’ proclaimed that the Mumbai attack reflected “the failure of Indian Intelligence”. They claimed that India was blaming Pakistan to “enhance its control over the disputed Kashmir” and warned that “China can support Pakistan in the event of a war”. They asserted that in such circumstances, China may have the option of resorting to a “strategic military action in southern Tibet (Arunachal Pradesh) to thoroughly liberate the people there”.

China has since agreed to co-produce 240 JF-17 fighters and supply 30 J-10 fighters, apart from four Frigates, tanks and AWACS to Pakistan. China is also upgrading Pakistan’s nuclear weapons and missile capabilities. India has to carefully analyse if Pakistan is being assisted to shift its nuclear weapons from the increasingly unstable Balochistan Province to tunnels in the remote parts of Gilgit-Baltistan

But would it not be worthwhile to equip Vietnam with Cruise and ballistic missiles, together with the supply of safe-guarded nuclear power and research reactors and reprocessing facilities? Can we not, like the ASEAN countries, commence Minister-level economic exchanges with Taiwan? Should we not suggest that since China and the Dalai Lama signed a 17-Point Agreement in 1951 and that we hope both sides agree to abide by and implement that agreement in letter and spirit? Measured and calculated responses are the best answers to Chinese ‘assertiveness’.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 03, 20

Post by Anujan »

sum wrote:The granddaddy of WKKs speaketh:
An Indo-Pak axis?

The foreign ministers of the two countries must stop this suicidal game and follow the glorious example of Bopanna and Qureshi, the great young patriots of the two countries.
:-?
I hope he noticed that Bopanna-Qureshi team lost against the US team :wink: Had Bopanna teamed up with someone else, he might have won against the Qureshi team *and* the US team :mrgreen:
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 03, 20

Post by SSridhar »

Anujan wrote:
GP's article in the Pioneer is unusually blunt (about China)

Few in New Delhi have bothered to seriously note that China has backed Pakistan’s efforts to block US-sponsored moves since 2007 in the UN Security Council to declare Hafiz Mohammed Saeed’s Jamaat-ud-Dawa’h as an international terrorist organisation.


After Prof. Hafeez Saeed was somehow eventually put on that UN list in Dec. 2008, China again blocked the move to place Maulana Masood Azhar of JeM on the list. The intentions are clear.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 03, 20

Post by SSridhar »

Karzai seeks to allay fears of Indian role in Balochistan
Asked how Afghanistan could accept Pakistani hospitality for years and yet allow India to destabilise Pakistan from Afghan soil, Mr. Karzai said: “I will speak with a clear voice and a clear conscience. Afghanistan will be committing a great wrong to itself if we allow our territory to be used by any other country against Pakistan. This is not in the interest of Afghanistan. Please trust us on that. We will not allow that.”

As for the specific charge of Afghanistan providing refuge to leading Baloch insurgency leader Bramdagh Bugti — who is said to have an Indian passport — Mr. Karzai said if Pakistan thought he was a criminal and provided evidence, Kabul would act on it.

At the same time, he made no secret of India's contribution to the reconstruction of Afghanistan; maintaining that New Delhi was one of the leading contributors to this exercise.

On Afghanistan's National Security Adviser Rangin Dadfar Spanta's charge that Pakistan's intelligence agencies continued to provide shelter to terrorist networks, Mr. Karzai said this was discussed.

“The reality is that both are suffering from terrorism and the terrorists must have a base somewhere. They are not coming from Burkina Faso or the Ivory Coast. :) They must be originating from our soil. We discussed ways to go after their training grounds, financial sources….This openness in our dialogue is a step forward in our relations. It is an engagement that is substantive and issue-oriented.”
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 03, 20

Post by SSridhar »

Indian cotton exporters cancel Pakistani contracts
The Indian traders have dishounored confirmed orders of 200,000 cotton bales by Pakistani traders, All Pakistan Textile Mills Association (APTMA) said Wednesday.

Pakistan has so far confirmed orders of 522,000 bales out of which Indian exporters have denied maturity of 200,000 bales deals, APTMA member Shahzad Ahmad said.

He said Pakistani importers would now have to pay around 59 cents per pound on import of cotton from India, which is much higher than the previous cancelled orders.

Pakistan lint importers are considering to go for arbitration service of International Cotton Association (ICA) {They should go to their normal fetish, the ICJ} on cancellation of 200,000 cotton bales orders by Indian exporters.

"Indian exporters betrayed the confirmed orders by Pakistani importers without assigning any valid reason causing a huge financial loss to them," he maintained .

The refusal of 200,000 bales export from India is a sheer violation of bylaws and rules of ICA, Liverpool as this is a contract dispute on international level, he said.

Indian traders are now asking $1.05 per pound, as the import orders by Pakistani importers were booked for around 54 cents per pound.

He said Pakistan's textile sector would have to bear a burden of around $970 million for import of cotton to fulfil its immediate requirements of the produce from other sources.

"Indian traders have a habit to ask the price difference even on confirmed import orders {Oh, these kafir. . . how one hates them} and this happened twice before when Pakistani importers faced their unlawful demand in past," he maintained.

We want an impartial and internationally recognised arbitration service that upholds the sanctity of Pakistani contracts in order to promote good trading practice, he asserted.

The Pakistan High Commissioner (HC) in India should also come forward to help the businessmen especially dealing in cotton between the two countries, cotton analyst Shakeel Ahmad said.

"There should be a mechanism in HC to support Pakistani counterparts while dealing with Indian exporters on determining terms according to the law of land of both the countries," he maintained.

Ahmad personally asked Pakistan HC Shahid Malik in India to take interest in the commercial activities in order to minimise the financial miseries of cotton importers.

He also asked the HC trade commissioner in Delhi Naeem Anwer and trade consular Anjum Zafar for possible help as they are working hard for the promotion of current trade ties between the two countries.

He said after lifting ban on cotton export from October 1, 2010, the HC can help Pakistani importers by using diplomatic sources to revise the old orders, which had been cancelled without any valid reason.

He said in the last deals at the behest of Gujrat exporters, the Indian government had imposed an export duty on the produce besides they raised export price to Rs 6,300 per 100 kilogrammes in Pak rupee.

ICA arbitration awards can be enforced in foreign courts under international law, following an agreement made in New York on June 10, 1958 on the recognition and enforcement of foreign arbitral awards.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 03, 20

Post by Dilbu »

Four suspects arrested in raid at madrassa, arms recovered
KARACHI: Police have arrested four suspects and recovered heavy cache of arms after launching a raid in a Madrassah located in Liaquatabad, Karachi. According to the police, the Anti Violent Crime Cell (AVCC), on a tip off regarding the storage of weapons, raided the Faizan-ul-Quran Madrassah in Liaquatabad, Karachi. The heavy cache of weapons included two rocket launchers, two SMG pistols, rifles and hundreds of bullets. Four culprits were arrested from the scene. Police launched the raid on information provided by a man who was kidnapped and later released.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 03, 20

Post by shravan »

Water dispute claims 13 more lives in Kurram
PESHAWAR: The ongoing water dispute in the Kurram tribal region deepened on Thursday as 13 more tribesmen were killed and 19 others were injured in clashes between the two rival groups.

According to sources, the dispute had taken a new turn after the involvement of militants in the clashes which took place in the tribal region’s Salozan and Tungi areas.

So far, 48 people have been killed and more than 80 injured in the past 13 days.— DawnNews
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 03, 20

Post by Dilbu »

Pakistan Taliban murder journalist
The Pakistani Taliban have claimed responsibility for murdering journalist Misri Khan in Hangu, in the northwestern province of Khyber-Pakhtunkhwa, and have issued a threat to attack other journalists.

A Taliban spokesman said: "We killed him because he twisted the facts. He had a leaning towards the army in what he wrote... There will be other attacks against those who speak out against the Taliban."

Khan was shot dead on Tuesday outside his office. He had previously told colleagues he had received threats. His agency's office had also been set on fire.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 03, 20

Post by A_Gupta »

http://expressbuzz.com/world/25-suspect ... 07057.html
In full:
PESHAWAR: Pakistani security forces today arrested 25 suspected terrorists, including Afghan nationals, and seized 20 vehicles with explosive materials and suicide jackets during a search operation in the restive Khyber tribal region.

Troops combed the Shalobar area of Khyber Agency and busted several terrorist hideouts.

A spokesman for the Frontier Scouts said the arrests and seizure of explosive materials had averted a major terrorist attack on Khyber-Pakhtunkhwa capital Peshawar, which has been on high alert for the past few days.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 03, 20

Post by anupmisra »

SSridhar wrote:Indian cotton exporters cancel Pakistani contracts
dishounored ... denied maturity ....betrayed ....violation of bylaws and rules
"Indian traders have a habit to ask the price difference even on confirmed import orders
impartial and internationally recognised arbitration service that upholds the sanctity of Pakistani contracts
So, here's the sequence of pakis trying to build up their case against India through their press:

First, claim that you are hurt (financially, religiously, morally, technically, and lastly, legally)
Second, build your case against India (silly kufrs) by claiming that this is an Indian habit (zehaniyat) and past acts must be reviewed.
Third, request for an "impartial, international arbitration panel" that must and should know how to uphold the "sanctity" of paki contracts.
Fourth, (a step that was missing in the article) threaten to blow themselves up if the verdict is not in their favor (hurt through their H&D).

So the pakis are now crying wolf over someone else's (other than their dear founder) reneging and retrading on an agreement. This surely must be a new direction for the purelanders. In the rest of the world parlance, this amounts to "pot calling the kettle black", and their history is full of it.
Last edited by anupmisra on 16 Sep 2010 17:15, edited 1 time in total.
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