Arjun ji,
GOI has ensured that most of the time of average raamu is spent on making the ends meet. Few have the luxury of going through intellectual opinion- building process. One has to bring ppl outside from their hectic lives and cultivate in them the habit of working in large groups. Many great keyboard intellectuals have tough time engaging and organizing 10 people for a cause. This has been the undoing of hindu.
Anyways, this is becoming RSS discussion and this is wrong forum and thread for discussing RSS. I will reiterate my statement which started it all.
If swatantrata party like indic entity were entrenched like american republican party, RSS and affiliated party would have been percieved as left wing party by media and people. And this is the aim I see fulfilling eventually. I do not even think that secular parties in current times are even indian, forget indic. And strong Indic right and an indic left is essential for growth and stability of bhaarata.
Statewide and National runup to 2014 General elections
Re: Statewide and National runup to 2014 General elections
Arjun ji, Atri ji and others:
I would caution very strongly against applying such categories as "Capitalist", "Socialist", "Liberal", or even "Right-wing" and "Left-wing" to anything within the Indian system. Not just because they are foreign, but because the very assumptions from which these classifications derive are completely disjointed from an Indian worldview.
For example, there is a pernicious idea that the traditional Vaishya Dharma, or the relationship of Indian mercantile classes to wealth, is essentially "capitalist." This could not be further from the truth. "Capitalism" is a form of sophistry developed by the apologist Adam Smith to philosophically justify the accumulation of wealth as a natural outcome of Protestant work ethic, in the face of pre-existing memes in Western materialism that glorified poverty. Socialism is a response to Capitalism that re-establishes the glorification of poverty without the earlier tone of overt religiosity. This entire back-and-forth proceeds across a playing field whose geography is dictated by the contours of Western Materialism. The precepts of Western Materialism themselves could not be further removed from the way in which Vaishya Dharma regards the concepts of wealth and prosperity.
Indian Vaishya Dharma is nothing at all like Capitalism, because in our view, the accumulation of wealth is itself a task consonant with divinity; there is no sophistry required, and nothing to apologize for. To cast one thing in the mold of the other, is like asking Pt. Bhimsen Joshi to sing Raga Maalkauns in "F sharp minor, allegro moderato". It's meaningless.
It's well known that Hindu civilization produced a nation with a quarter of global GDP share, even as late as the 1750s when Islamist colonialism and plunder had shafted us for a thousand years ( I wonder what the figure would have been in Skanda Gupta's day.) History as written by Abrahamic Materialists will attribute this simply to the fact that India was blessed with natural resources and a convenient location on many trade routes; meanwhile, it will characterize the Indian people themselves as lazy and detached from worldly reality, as opposed to the hard-working Europeans whose enterprising spirit made them colonial masters of the planet.
The truth, of course, is that Indians have always had a civilizational sense of what constitutes a healthy relationship with artha. It is one of the purusharthas, an aim of human existence whose fulfillment enhances an individual's proximity to the supreme. Artha-shastra, or economics, is the science of managing God-given resources, and hence an entirely noble pursuit. The idea of wealth as an abstraction of these resources is a concept sparked by divine inspiration, and wealth itself a manifestation of divinity. Arjun ji correctly alluded to this when he mentioned that Lakshmi is worshipped in India, but he was incorrect to conclude that it had anything to do with "capitalism."
While this view of artha is what continues to inform many Indian businesspersons and business families as they go about their work today, it is not what defines any discussion of economics at the social or political levels... not even, sadly to say, in India. Those discussions are completely overwhelmed by the Neo-Abrahamic worldview of wealth, wherein an imposed dialectic of "development vs. social justice", "capitalism vs. socialism", "rich vs. poor" underlies any argument made by *both* sides of the debate.
I say "Neo-Abrahamic" here because to give credit where it is due, the original Abrahamics-- the Jews-- have always had a healthier relationship with the concept of wealth, much more like our own albeit with different philosophical grounding. Together with the fact that Jews don't engage in predatory conversion, this trait is a saving grace of their civilization which will make the Hebrews quite possible for Indic civilization to co-exist and even cooperate with, in the long run.
With Christianity, Islamism and Marxism, the very notion of wealth has been twisted into something so vastly different that it is quite incompatible with the way India has traditionally regarded prosperity, and the way in which we need to regard it once more in order to achieve success on our own terms.
Beginning with Christianity, a new dialectic of Western Materialism was imposed upon all social, political and historical narrative. By controlling this underlying dialectic, religious institutions in Christianity and Islam assured their own supremacy over the debate at both ends, and positioned themselves as ultimate arbiters of justice between the opposing camps. Later on, the youngest of the Abrahamic spawn... Marxism... may have done away with "God", but it still held on to this fundamental philosophical mother-lode from which both "Capitalism" and "Socialism" sprang, under the name of "Dialectical Materialism". That's how powerful it is, as a lever for the control of historical narrative... and therefore, of history itself.
So what are the principles of this dialectic, and how are they incompatible with Vaishya Dharma?
1) The Transference of Responsibility:
In the Indian view, karma ensures that ultimately, every individual is responsible for his or her own actions. For this reason, the accumulation of wealth, the pursuit of Vaishya-dharma, the generation of artha are noble pursuits as long as they are conducted as all good work must be; i.e., without falling prey to the egotistical temptations of raaga (craving) or dvesha (repulsion.)
Karma has no place in the neo-Abrahamic worldview; for, if individuals were to be considered ultimately responsible for their own actions, how could any institution claim a privileged position as the authoritative narrator of history (including the authentication of specific "divine interventions")? Also, what need would there be for messiahs, prophets and revelations if individuals were capable of achieving their own salvation?
For this reason, Western Materialism transfers the "responsibility" for sins to the object of raaga/dvesha... wealth itself... from those who succumb to these foibles. Hence, "money is the root of all evil." Hence, Jesus "threw out the money changers from the temple".
In the final analysis, the promise that the power-brokers of Neo-Abrahamism hold out is that of "salvation" by an external "saviour". The Christian Judgment Day, its Muslim equivalent, and the Marxist revolution to bring about a "stateless society" are all manifestations of this empty promise... follow us, and we will bring about change, because there is no way you can hope to save your puny selves. Individual responsibility has at best a limited temporal role (to live a life free of doctrinally-mandated "sins") , and no ultimate role at all. The Transference of Responsibility is therefore fundamental to all Neo-Abrahamic doctrine, and in its economic form, manifests as Western Materialism.
2) The Fetishization of Poverty:
The concept of the "beautiful poor" is something that the Church, the Ulema and the Marxists have always held out to less deprived classes as a romanticized ideal of the human condition. From the Christian point of view, the "beautiful poor" represent an opportunity for the "haves" to achieve salvation through that most insidious of socio-economic processes: "charity". The rich were told that to go to heaven, they had to give money away to the poor: Jesus even spoke some sage words about how it was easier for a camel to pass through a needle's eye than for a rich man to enter heaven (this has to be one of the worst mixed metaphors in the literature of Western civilization, but anyway.)
Charity, as defined in Neo-Abrahamic doctrine, is a terrible thing for any society. It isn't the same thing as upliftment; in fact, it is the enemy of upliftment. When pursued for its own sake ... as the power-brokers of neo-Abrahamic civilizations have invariably mandated... Charity fosters dependency, and ensures the need for more Charity in turn, generation after generation. The power-brokers of Neo-Abrahamism, be they Church, Mullahs or Socialist Parties, are the only real beneficiaries of Charity. They alone retain the power to grant approval, salvation or absolution to the "haves" who hand over their wealth to the "have-nots". It is through their agency alone that the mechanics of Charity must be implemented.
Everyone from the early Christians to the modern Left has needed a "beautiful poor" as the objectified focus for their programs of "charity". It is integral to all of their schemes that the poor be kept poor for exactly this purpose.
Consider what Aatish Tasseer has said about Arundhati Roy in this regard:
3) The Absolution from Guilt
The Fetishization of Poverty is one side of the Western Materialist coin, facing the poor; on its other side is the promise of Absolution from Guilt, offered by neo-Abrahamic power brokers to the rich.
By maintaining a "beautiful poor" class, the neo-Abrahamics are able to justify Socialism. By offering Absolution from Guilt, the neo-Abrahamics relieve Capitalists of any qualms they may feel about the accumulation of wealth, and yet maintain a philosophical environment in which people who become wealthy automatically feel guilt that needs to be absolved. Invariably, the process by which the rich are offered Absolution involves the same old scam... some form of Charity... in which neo-Abrahamic power-brokers always play a central and privileged role.
In Vaishya-Dharma a clear distinction is made; it is not money, but raaga/dvesha that is the wellspring of adharma. Wealth itself will not make you evil simply by possessing it. In Western Materialism, wealth itself carries a taint; yet, that taint can be removed by the intercession of neo-Abrahamic institutions on behalf of a doctrinally-mandated "saviour."
This is what turns Capitalism into essentially a justification for greed... a means to accumulate wealth with as much dvesha as you like, as immorally as you wish... because the Church, Ulema or Party will absolve you of that guilt ultimately. It is this strange, self-perpetuating cycle of guilt and justification that has enabled the West to countenance colonialism, imperialism, slavery, and genocide as acceptable methods of material expansion. In Neo-Abrahamism, there is no need for personal responsibility in your pursuit of artha because, no matter how much suffering you cause to others in acquiring it, you will eventually be absolved by the intercession of an external "saviour." The only caveat is that you must "keep the faith"... i.e., admit the supremacy of the neo-Abrahamic power brokerage concerned.
*****
The entire dialectic of Western Materialism, then, is rooted in philosophical assumptions that have no basis whatsoever in Indic thought. This is why it is not simply meaningless, but dangerous for us to transplant notions of "right", "left", "liberal", "conservative", "socialist" and "capitalist" into considerations of Indian society, politics and economics. If we internalize this nonsense, we are implicitly granting credence to the very streams of thought whose adherents pillaged our prosperity for a thousand years.
A debate premised on Western Materialism is exactly what has spawned the "pro-poor" sophistry that the INC instrumentalizes as a justification for its platform of plunder. Our insistence on buying into the terminology of this debate ultimately condemns us to what is known, with infinite irony, as a "Hindu Rate of Growth".
I would caution very strongly against applying such categories as "Capitalist", "Socialist", "Liberal", or even "Right-wing" and "Left-wing" to anything within the Indian system. Not just because they are foreign, but because the very assumptions from which these classifications derive are completely disjointed from an Indian worldview.
For example, there is a pernicious idea that the traditional Vaishya Dharma, or the relationship of Indian mercantile classes to wealth, is essentially "capitalist." This could not be further from the truth. "Capitalism" is a form of sophistry developed by the apologist Adam Smith to philosophically justify the accumulation of wealth as a natural outcome of Protestant work ethic, in the face of pre-existing memes in Western materialism that glorified poverty. Socialism is a response to Capitalism that re-establishes the glorification of poverty without the earlier tone of overt religiosity. This entire back-and-forth proceeds across a playing field whose geography is dictated by the contours of Western Materialism. The precepts of Western Materialism themselves could not be further removed from the way in which Vaishya Dharma regards the concepts of wealth and prosperity.
Indian Vaishya Dharma is nothing at all like Capitalism, because in our view, the accumulation of wealth is itself a task consonant with divinity; there is no sophistry required, and nothing to apologize for. To cast one thing in the mold of the other, is like asking Pt. Bhimsen Joshi to sing Raga Maalkauns in "F sharp minor, allegro moderato". It's meaningless.
It's well known that Hindu civilization produced a nation with a quarter of global GDP share, even as late as the 1750s when Islamist colonialism and plunder had shafted us for a thousand years ( I wonder what the figure would have been in Skanda Gupta's day.) History as written by Abrahamic Materialists will attribute this simply to the fact that India was blessed with natural resources and a convenient location on many trade routes; meanwhile, it will characterize the Indian people themselves as lazy and detached from worldly reality, as opposed to the hard-working Europeans whose enterprising spirit made them colonial masters of the planet.
The truth, of course, is that Indians have always had a civilizational sense of what constitutes a healthy relationship with artha. It is one of the purusharthas, an aim of human existence whose fulfillment enhances an individual's proximity to the supreme. Artha-shastra, or economics, is the science of managing God-given resources, and hence an entirely noble pursuit. The idea of wealth as an abstraction of these resources is a concept sparked by divine inspiration, and wealth itself a manifestation of divinity. Arjun ji correctly alluded to this when he mentioned that Lakshmi is worshipped in India, but he was incorrect to conclude that it had anything to do with "capitalism."
While this view of artha is what continues to inform many Indian businesspersons and business families as they go about their work today, it is not what defines any discussion of economics at the social or political levels... not even, sadly to say, in India. Those discussions are completely overwhelmed by the Neo-Abrahamic worldview of wealth, wherein an imposed dialectic of "development vs. social justice", "capitalism vs. socialism", "rich vs. poor" underlies any argument made by *both* sides of the debate.
I say "Neo-Abrahamic" here because to give credit where it is due, the original Abrahamics-- the Jews-- have always had a healthier relationship with the concept of wealth, much more like our own albeit with different philosophical grounding. Together with the fact that Jews don't engage in predatory conversion, this trait is a saving grace of their civilization which will make the Hebrews quite possible for Indic civilization to co-exist and even cooperate with, in the long run.
With Christianity, Islamism and Marxism, the very notion of wealth has been twisted into something so vastly different that it is quite incompatible with the way India has traditionally regarded prosperity, and the way in which we need to regard it once more in order to achieve success on our own terms.
Beginning with Christianity, a new dialectic of Western Materialism was imposed upon all social, political and historical narrative. By controlling this underlying dialectic, religious institutions in Christianity and Islam assured their own supremacy over the debate at both ends, and positioned themselves as ultimate arbiters of justice between the opposing camps. Later on, the youngest of the Abrahamic spawn... Marxism... may have done away with "God", but it still held on to this fundamental philosophical mother-lode from which both "Capitalism" and "Socialism" sprang, under the name of "Dialectical Materialism". That's how powerful it is, as a lever for the control of historical narrative... and therefore, of history itself.
So what are the principles of this dialectic, and how are they incompatible with Vaishya Dharma?
1) The Transference of Responsibility:
In the Indian view, karma ensures that ultimately, every individual is responsible for his or her own actions. For this reason, the accumulation of wealth, the pursuit of Vaishya-dharma, the generation of artha are noble pursuits as long as they are conducted as all good work must be; i.e., without falling prey to the egotistical temptations of raaga (craving) or dvesha (repulsion.)
Karma has no place in the neo-Abrahamic worldview; for, if individuals were to be considered ultimately responsible for their own actions, how could any institution claim a privileged position as the authoritative narrator of history (including the authentication of specific "divine interventions")? Also, what need would there be for messiahs, prophets and revelations if individuals were capable of achieving their own salvation?
For this reason, Western Materialism transfers the "responsibility" for sins to the object of raaga/dvesha... wealth itself... from those who succumb to these foibles. Hence, "money is the root of all evil." Hence, Jesus "threw out the money changers from the temple".
In the final analysis, the promise that the power-brokers of Neo-Abrahamism hold out is that of "salvation" by an external "saviour". The Christian Judgment Day, its Muslim equivalent, and the Marxist revolution to bring about a "stateless society" are all manifestations of this empty promise... follow us, and we will bring about change, because there is no way you can hope to save your puny selves. Individual responsibility has at best a limited temporal role (to live a life free of doctrinally-mandated "sins") , and no ultimate role at all. The Transference of Responsibility is therefore fundamental to all Neo-Abrahamic doctrine, and in its economic form, manifests as Western Materialism.
2) The Fetishization of Poverty:
The concept of the "beautiful poor" is something that the Church, the Ulema and the Marxists have always held out to less deprived classes as a romanticized ideal of the human condition. From the Christian point of view, the "beautiful poor" represent an opportunity for the "haves" to achieve salvation through that most insidious of socio-economic processes: "charity". The rich were told that to go to heaven, they had to give money away to the poor: Jesus even spoke some sage words about how it was easier for a camel to pass through a needle's eye than for a rich man to enter heaven (this has to be one of the worst mixed metaphors in the literature of Western civilization, but anyway.)
Charity, as defined in Neo-Abrahamic doctrine, is a terrible thing for any society. It isn't the same thing as upliftment; in fact, it is the enemy of upliftment. When pursued for its own sake ... as the power-brokers of neo-Abrahamic civilizations have invariably mandated... Charity fosters dependency, and ensures the need for more Charity in turn, generation after generation. The power-brokers of Neo-Abrahamism, be they Church, Mullahs or Socialist Parties, are the only real beneficiaries of Charity. They alone retain the power to grant approval, salvation or absolution to the "haves" who hand over their wealth to the "have-nots". It is through their agency alone that the mechanics of Charity must be implemented.
Everyone from the early Christians to the modern Left has needed a "beautiful poor" as the objectified focus for their programs of "charity". It is integral to all of their schemes that the poor be kept poor for exactly this purpose.
Consider what Aatish Tasseer has said about Arundhati Roy in this regard:
Because they fetishize poverty, and use Charity as a mechanism to reinforce their own power... the power-brokers of Neo-Abrahamism are fundamentally against upliftment. Of all social classes, they hate the rising middle class the most.I don’t think she’s a friend of the poor at all. She would like to doom them to a permanent state of picturesque poverty. They are beautiful to her–the poor–beautiful, benign and faceless. And that is exactly how she wants them to stay. Let me say also that it is not the poor who animate her politics. Oh, no! The people who get her into the streets are the new middle classes. This class, still among the most fragile in India, people who have newly emerged from the most dire conditions, are despicable to her. She mocks their clothes; their trouble with English; she hates their ambitions; when India wins the cricket and she sees them celebrating, her skin crawls; she wants, more than anything, to do these people down. And it is her overwhelming hatred of them that allows her to be a friend of movements that are seemingly far apart. The jihadists, the Maoists, the Kashmir movement, the anti-development people…they’re all her friends. Anyone who can prove a credible threat to the future of India is a friend of that woman. I would go so far as to say she has a prurient fascination with the enemies of India. And where do they love her? In Pakistan, and in the faculty rooms of Europe and America. No surprise there.
Also, this business of pretending she’s a lone voice in the wilderness. What rubbish! At least have the good grace to admit that not one thing she says is provocative or new; it is perfectly banal. And we know how well the universities Europe and America reward this bogus cant!
3) The Absolution from Guilt
The Fetishization of Poverty is one side of the Western Materialist coin, facing the poor; on its other side is the promise of Absolution from Guilt, offered by neo-Abrahamic power brokers to the rich.
By maintaining a "beautiful poor" class, the neo-Abrahamics are able to justify Socialism. By offering Absolution from Guilt, the neo-Abrahamics relieve Capitalists of any qualms they may feel about the accumulation of wealth, and yet maintain a philosophical environment in which people who become wealthy automatically feel guilt that needs to be absolved. Invariably, the process by which the rich are offered Absolution involves the same old scam... some form of Charity... in which neo-Abrahamic power-brokers always play a central and privileged role.
In Vaishya-Dharma a clear distinction is made; it is not money, but raaga/dvesha that is the wellspring of adharma. Wealth itself will not make you evil simply by possessing it. In Western Materialism, wealth itself carries a taint; yet, that taint can be removed by the intercession of neo-Abrahamic institutions on behalf of a doctrinally-mandated "saviour."
This is what turns Capitalism into essentially a justification for greed... a means to accumulate wealth with as much dvesha as you like, as immorally as you wish... because the Church, Ulema or Party will absolve you of that guilt ultimately. It is this strange, self-perpetuating cycle of guilt and justification that has enabled the West to countenance colonialism, imperialism, slavery, and genocide as acceptable methods of material expansion. In Neo-Abrahamism, there is no need for personal responsibility in your pursuit of artha because, no matter how much suffering you cause to others in acquiring it, you will eventually be absolved by the intercession of an external "saviour." The only caveat is that you must "keep the faith"... i.e., admit the supremacy of the neo-Abrahamic power brokerage concerned.
*****
The entire dialectic of Western Materialism, then, is rooted in philosophical assumptions that have no basis whatsoever in Indic thought. This is why it is not simply meaningless, but dangerous for us to transplant notions of "right", "left", "liberal", "conservative", "socialist" and "capitalist" into considerations of Indian society, politics and economics. If we internalize this nonsense, we are implicitly granting credence to the very streams of thought whose adherents pillaged our prosperity for a thousand years.
A debate premised on Western Materialism is exactly what has spawned the "pro-poor" sophistry that the INC instrumentalizes as a justification for its platform of plunder. Our insistence on buying into the terminology of this debate ultimately condemns us to what is known, with infinite irony, as a "Hindu Rate of Growth".
Re: Statewide and National runup to 2014 General elections
That's a tour de force of a response, Rudradev ji. You should consider fleshing it out and publishing it, if you already haven't done so...
Couple of minor points-
1. It is extremely critical to 'label' the category of individuals who believe in a particular doctrine - in this case those who believe in the Western Materialistic dialectic, with its associated attributes of 'Fetishization of Poverty' and 'Absolution of Guilt'. Whether for disparagement or other purposes, you need convenient labels that affords the problem to be easily recognized. Recognition of the problem is half the solution, and these labels morover need to be easily understood by your audience...it is in that context that I usually find the 'left wing' label most useful. In your construct, it could be replaced probably by 'believers in Western Materialism Dialectic'. Over a period of time, it would be good to identify a smaller phrase perhaps with some Sanskrit etymology - that achieves the same purpose, but this is certainly a great beginning.
2. While we criticize the reductionist, non-integrated view of "wealth vs poverty" that characterizes Western Materialism based debate - we also need an alternative Indic approach that can serve as counter-ideal. If State or Religion as Intermediary in this Transference of Responsiblity is not the best approach - what is the alternative we could look at? Poverty cannot be wished away - so what then is the solution? This might need to be fleshed out in greater detail - probably what that would involve is greater responsibility being assumed by each wealth creator as regards the affect of his / her wealth creation on society and community.
Couple of minor points-
1. It is extremely critical to 'label' the category of individuals who believe in a particular doctrine - in this case those who believe in the Western Materialistic dialectic, with its associated attributes of 'Fetishization of Poverty' and 'Absolution of Guilt'. Whether for disparagement or other purposes, you need convenient labels that affords the problem to be easily recognized. Recognition of the problem is half the solution, and these labels morover need to be easily understood by your audience...it is in that context that I usually find the 'left wing' label most useful. In your construct, it could be replaced probably by 'believers in Western Materialism Dialectic'. Over a period of time, it would be good to identify a smaller phrase perhaps with some Sanskrit etymology - that achieves the same purpose, but this is certainly a great beginning.
2. While we criticize the reductionist, non-integrated view of "wealth vs poverty" that characterizes Western Materialism based debate - we also need an alternative Indic approach that can serve as counter-ideal. If State or Religion as Intermediary in this Transference of Responsiblity is not the best approach - what is the alternative we could look at? Poverty cannot be wished away - so what then is the solution? This might need to be fleshed out in greater detail - probably what that would involve is greater responsibility being assumed by each wealth creator as regards the affect of his / her wealth creation on society and community.
Re: Statewide and National runup to 2014 General elections
Rudradev ji,
please consider cross-posting this to the Bharatiya Thread as well. It is a great post.
please consider cross-posting this to the Bharatiya Thread as well. It is a great post.
Re: Statewide and National runup to 2014 General elections
Has this thread gone of on a different tangent? (Indicness and the usual stuff..). Can such posts be moved to another relevant thread?
Re: Statewide and National runup to 2014 General elections
illuminating post above Rudradev, have been grappling with similar ideas. a better understanding of sociolinguistics/pragmatics is necessary to explain many of the schisms that have developed in india over the last many decades. "religion" itself is a word that when spoken must evoke very different ideas and consequent set of actions. more indians need to understand this.
Re: Statewide and National runup to 2014 General elections
Remember colonial cousins NDTV and CNN-IBM ran this tape in loop mode. This was measure psy-op leading to the M vote consolidation behind congress and Cons getting 200+ seats. I hope BJP will not sit on her a$$ but do something about it.Varun Gandhi acquitted in second hate speech case
However, now the acquittal in the two cases has come as a big relief for the BJP leader, who now has only one case against him. The court acquitted the Pilibhit MP on the basis of eyewitness accounts and a report of Forensic Science Laboratory, Chandigarh, which concluded that video CD of the alleged 'hate speech' had been 'doctored'.
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 812786.cms
See even now this fact is being burried between the lines by Media.
Re: Statewide and National runup to 2014 General elections
Thanks, Gentlemen, for your kind comments.
Arjun ji, points well taken.
Atri ji, that's very kind of you but I'm a very long way from being an Acharya!
Rajesh A ji, I've cross-posted to the Bharatiya thread per your suggestion.
Misra ji, most definitely so. Have you read Rajiv Malhotra's work? He is very much involved in sociolinguistic critique, and I credit his work with inspiring me to think along these lines.
Sachin ji, sorry, will keep it out of here!
Arjun ji, points well taken.
Atri ji, that's very kind of you but I'm a very long way from being an Acharya!
Rajesh A ji, I've cross-posted to the Bharatiya thread per your suggestion.
Misra ji, most definitely so. Have you read Rajiv Malhotra's work? He is very much involved in sociolinguistic critique, and I credit his work with inspiring me to think along these lines.
Sachin ji, sorry, will keep it out of here!
Re: Statewide and National runup to 2014 General elections
Deep Roots of Congress.
-
Hari Seldon
- BRF Oldie
- Posts: 9374
- Joined: 27 Jul 2009 12:47
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Re: Statewide and National runup to 2014 General elections
Aggressive PM takes on BJP, says UPA did better than NDA
Sure. We know what language the UPA will use - that of CBI raids, IT inquiries, ED harassment, IB snooping etc etc.
More moodiya taglines:
There's been co-ordinated reporting across moodiya channels that "PM hits back at BJP" etc. Wonder why. One such radia channel carried the tagline:He also expressed the hope that people would vote the ruling UPA back to power in 2014 as they did in 2004 and 2009
.PM says "won't use the same language the BJP uses to attack us"
Sure. We know what language the UPA will use - that of CBI raids, IT inquiries, ED harassment, IB snooping etc etc.
More moodiya taglines:
Yup, the achievements in the corruption field break all past records. The brazen-ness, impunity, sheer crassness involved was charming indeed. And a servile (if not vile) PM who's never won an election in his life and cannot take a bathroom break without madamji's permission is getting all "agressive" and "hitting back" now. Curing the country's irony deficiency won;t help the malnutrition stats, someone tell Hon. PM ji.UPA achievements cannot be belittled: PM
Re: Statewide and National runup to 2014 General elections
Two news items about AP:
- KCR sends feelers to MIM to tie-up. MIM thinks they have YSRC in mind.
-Congress data discoruaging
- Three things against them
-- Rise of Jagan
-- Revival of TDP
-- Anti-incumbency due to failure to deliver after two terms
- KCR sends feelers to MIM to tie-up. MIM thinks they have YSRC in mind.
-Congress data discoruaging
- Three things against them
-- Rise of Jagan
-- Revival of TDP
-- Anti-incumbency due to failure to deliver after two terms
Re: Statewide and National runup to 2014 General elections
Hindutva forces will help form next government: Ashok Singhal
http://post.jagran.com/hindutva-forces- ... 1362576096
http://post.jagran.com/hindutva-forces- ... 1362576096
The next government at the Centre will be formed with the support of Hindutva forces after the 2014 general elections, and Narendra Modi could be a catalyst in that, Vishwa Hindu Parishad patron Ashok Singhal said on Wednesday.
"In 2014, the government will be formed with the support of the Hindutva forces and Narendra Modi may be a catalyst," Singhal said. Responding to a question on his preference for the Bharatiya Janata Party's (BJP) prime ministerial candidate, Singhal said: "It is up to the BJP. It will have to choose an able person who can take the Hindu society forward."
In reply to another query, he said there was a clamour for Modi as the BJP's prime ministerial candidate because of the public support for Hindutva. "Why is everybody chanting Modi's name everywhere? It is because of the public support for Hindutva," said Singhal, who was the international president of the VHP for over 20 years till he was replaced in late 2011.
On the Mamata Banerjee-led West Bengal government's decision to provide allowances to imams and muazzims, he said: "It (the Trinamool Congress) is yielding under pressure from jihadi elements."
"Not only the Mamata government, the government at the centre, in Assam, Uttar Pradesh, all are living in fear of jihadi elements." Referring to the recent disturbances in Bangladesh, he said the "Hindu society is under attack from Jamaat-e-Islami".
He urged the West Bengal government to provide relief to those from Bangladesh who are taking shelter in the state .He blamed the Indian education system, "designed by Thomas Macaulay", for "rampant corruption" and vices like rape. "At one time, the Indian education system was led by the saints. Macaulay brought in the changes, inherent in which was too much and uncontrolled consumerism, and this resulted in corruption and rape," Singhal said.
Re: Statewide and National runup to 2014 General elections
Why do these guys like Ashok Singhal open thier mouth, we don't here John Dayal, NAc crowd, and certain Mullahs sayign INC is an Islamic Govt, Christian God GOvt or Naxalite Govt, although they openly present to their contuencies and voters as such. But they never make such press releases although ground level posters state exactly that Victory for INC is a Defeat of the Hindus
Re: Statewide and National runup to 2014 General elections
http://www.indianexpress.com/news/delhi ... /1084107/0
Delhi voter list inflated, some 15 lakh voters doubtful: EC
Delhi voter list inflated, some 15 lakh voters doubtful: EC
Pre-poll exercise finds deletions not carried out in list over last 15-20 yrs.
We have identified inflation in the electoral roll in certain age groups. The number of men between 30-50 years is an inflated figure, while the number of women and youth is deflated. We also found that there have been no deletions in the roll over the last 15 to 20 years," Delhi's Chief Electoral Officer Vijay Dev told Newsline.
After a house-to-house Assembly constituency-wise survey, the election commission has identified a shocking 15 lakh voters in the "doubtful" category.
Re: Statewide and National runup to 2014 General elections
They want to feel important and get in news, TV, interviews. they can't get over to get their 2 minute fame.Aditya_V wrote:Why do these guys like Ashok Singhal open thier mouth, we don't here John Dayal, NAc crowd, and certain Mullahs sayign INC is an Islamic Govt, Christian God GOvt or Naxalite Govt, although they openly present to their contuencies and voters as such. But they never make such press releases although ground level posters state exactly that Victory for INC is a Defeat of the Hindus
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Ankit Desai
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RamaY
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Re: Statewide and National runup to 2014 General elections
CBN's son Lokesh is trying to follow Akhilesh Yadav of UP. He wants to start Islamic banking in AP, if he comes to power.
Time to destroy TDP.
Time to destroy TDP.
Re: Statewide and National runup to 2014 General elections
Seems like he is ready to start Islamic bankingRamaY wrote:CBN's son Lokesh is trying to follow Akhilesh Yadav of UP. He wants to start Islamic banking in AP, if he comes to power.
Time to destroy TDP.
Congress copied his Cash Transfer Scheme. Maybe he wants Congress to do the same with this idea.
Re: Statewide and National runup to 2014 General elections
Both these fellows then would have seriously rework on the Reserve Bank related laws and rule books. The current rules does NOT allow Islamic Banking. This was even said by the RBI Governor. The "100% literate state" and the commies out there had tried this at least 5-6 years back. This was in order to woo the local Arab wannabes, and as part of the standard boot licking of the Arabs in the Middle East.RamaY wrote: He wants to start Islamic banking in AP, if he comes to power.
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RamaY
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Re: Statewide and National runup to 2014 General elections
The sad part is that these people still want to appease minorities instead of uplifting them.
(sic) Secularism is deep rooted in our society. It will need some earthquake to get rid of.
By the way, people think Kamma community is backbone of TDP. But from following winner list in 2009, one can see this community is as B team of congress as any other community.
Thst is why TDP will be a loser in 2014 elections, as far as MPs are concerned.
(sic) Secularism is deep rooted in our society. It will need some earthquake to get rid of.
By the way, people think Kamma community is backbone of TDP. But from following winner list in 2009, one can see this community is as B team of congress as any other community.
Thst is why TDP will be a loser in 2014 elections, as far as MPs are concerned.
Kamma MLA and MPs (Andhra Pradesh)
Kamma MLAs in AP Assembly:
1. Velagapudi Ramakrishna Babu Vizag TDP
2. Pendurthi Venkatesh Rajanagaram TDP
3. Vegulla Jogeswara Rao Mandapeta TDP
4. Burugupalli Sesha Rao Nidadavolu TDP
5. Chintamaneni Prabhakar Denduluru TDP
6. Kodali Venkateswara Rao Gudivada TDP
7. Dasari Balavardhana Rao Gannavaram TDP
8. Yalamanchili Ravi Vijayawada PRP
9. Devineni Umamaeshwara Rao Mylavaram TDP
10. Nadendla Manohar Tenali CONG
11. Dhulipala Narendra Ponnuru TDP
12. Kommalapati Sridhar Pedakurapadu TDP
13. Pattipati Pulla Rao Chilakaluripet TDP
14. Yaraparineni Srinivasa Rao Gurajala TDP
15. Gonuguntla VSR Anjaneyulu Vinukonda TDP
16. Gottipati Ravi Kumar Addanki CONG
17. Daggubati Venkateswara Rao Parchur CONG
18. Kurugundla Ramakrishna Venkatagiri TDP
19. Galla Aruna Kumari Chandragiri CONG
20. Nara Chandrababau Naidu Kuppam TDP
21. Gali Muddukrishnama Naidu Nagari TDP
22. Payyavula Kesav Uravakonda TDP
23. Paritala Sunitha Raptadu TDP
24. Konka Meenakshi Naidu Adoni TDP
25. Kunamneni Sambasiva Rao Kottagudem CPI
26. Tummala Nageswara Rao Khammam TDP
27. Mandava Venkateswara Rao Nizamabad TDP
28. Nagabhairava Jayaprakash Narayana Kukatpalli Loksatta
Kamma MPs in Loksabha:
1. Nama Nageswara Rao Khammam TDP
2. Daggubati Purandeswari Vizag CONG
3. Kavuri Sambasiva Rao Eluru CONG
4. Lagadapati Rajagopal Vijayawada CONG
5. Rayapati Sambasiva Rao Guntur CONG
Re: Statewide and National runup to 2014 General elections
Kamma comunity has good net work and they all maintain the connectively politically and also financially. The community got divided and a minor part remaining with TDP and that minor part and the Reddy gang now made the INC as very powerful one. Now EJ gang with Reddy gang mixed with ING gang are the main fighters. So INC will ramin as winners in state level elections. But anti INC wave is also a problem with INC. We have to see how it goes and lot of time is there for elections. Of course there is TRS which will win some seats and who knows what side they will go.
Re: Statewide and National runup to 2014 General elections
Let us make this thread's usage purely election 2014 stuff. Thx.
Here is an important article and which tells the rise of Shiela Dixit. If MMS is whatever to SG. Shiela Aunty is same to RG.
This time around Delhi faces a triangular fight involving the Congress, the BJP and Arvind Kejriwal’s Aam Admi Party. Sheila government had its share of corruption charges – CWG, electricity and so on. But she has survived comfortably. With a fourth consecutive win she will not only create a history for the Congress but also take an unsurpassable lead over any other party colleague in the Congress when the time of reckoning comes.
Here is an important article and which tells the rise of Shiela Dixit. If MMS is whatever to SG. Shiela Aunty is same to RG.
This time around Delhi faces a triangular fight involving the Congress, the BJP and Arvind Kejriwal’s Aam Admi Party. Sheila government had its share of corruption charges – CWG, electricity and so on. But she has survived comfortably. With a fourth consecutive win she will not only create a history for the Congress but also take an unsurpassable lead over any other party colleague in the Congress when the time of reckoning comes.
Re: Statewide and National runup to 2014 General elections
Not yet regarding TDP destruction. If TDP succeeds in wooing Muslims, it will be very very good. Things on the ground are really working that way. I am amazed to see CBN spending in so many villages of Krishna and Guntur districts. There is something to that. I think TDP will get the required strength to take on Jagan.RamaY wrote:CBN's son Lokesh is trying to follow Akhilesh Yadav of UP. He wants to start Islamic banking in AP, if he comes to power.
Time to destroy TDP.
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abhishek_sharma
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Re: Statewide and National runup to 2014 General elections
Coomi Kapoor's Column
Long regency
Narendra Modi picked up the term 'nightwatchman' to describe Manmohan Singh's role in government from a speech made in Parliament by Arun Jaitley some years ago. Jaitley, with his cricketing background, was referring to the task assigned to a cricketer, usually a bowler or a wicket-keeper, to hold the crease during adverse conditions so that the game can be kept alive for the regular batsmen to resume the next day. Some Congresspersons had protested at that time, assuming Jaitley was comparing the prime minister to a watchman. Since a nightwatchman seldom notches up a high score, Jaitley now concedes that the term was probably inappropriate. Manmohan Singh has had a longer innings than such star batsmen as Rajiv Gandhi and Atal Bihari Vajpayee. Rather than nightwatchman that implies a temporary position, the term regent would be more appropriate for Manmohan Singh. The Prime Minister has been keeping the seat warm for Rahul Gandhi and it is proving to be a very long regency.
Eventful return?
Pervez Musharraf has announced that he plans to end his exile and return to Pakistan by the end of the month in time for the elections. In order to drum up some publicity for his visit, the former president has hired an event management website. The website has sent e-mails to journalists around the world suggesting they book their passage to Pakistan for the D-day. Clearly, the response was not as enthusiastic as Musharraf had hoped since he has subsequently been tweeting about air tickets to Pakistan still being available.
No longer waiting
A significant line in Narendra Modi's speech at the recent BJP National Council meeting was, "Who is the candidate does not matter much in the BJP. We should keep the lotus at the forefront." This was Modi's indirect way of telling his detractors in the party that he is not going to continue to play the waiting game and cool his heels unless his name is formally announced as the prime ministerial candidate. Encouraged by the groundswell of support from cadres and state leaders, Modi has planned a series of public rallies throughout the country. In Mumbai, he is to speak at the Somaiya grounds in Sion, an even bigger ground than the Shivaji Stadium. The stop-Modi-at-any-cost campaign within a section of the party leadership had at one stage mooted the idea that Modi should not speak at the BJP National Council since it would be unfair to single him out among all the chief ministers. But they backtracked later sensing the mood of the cadres. L K Advani, who tried to project Sushma Swaraj and Shivraj Singh Chouhan as alternative leaders, got little response. In fact, by the time he spoke, many of the delegates had left the hall.
Suspicious Mamata
Mamata Banerjee was furious to learn that Mukul Roy had met a senior Congress functionary in Parliament recently and engaged in a long conversation. According to the TMC buzz, Roy was speaking about a CBI case on a land scam in West Bengal during the period when he was shipping minister.
Marital problem
Rahul Gandhi's remarks that he did not intend to get married in the near future have created problems in Veerappa Moily's household. The Petroleum Minister was trying to persuade his son and daughter to get married and now they have cited Rahul's example to buttress their decision to remain single a while longer.
Caesar's wife
Jaya Bachchan feels let down that the BJP had backtracked on supporting the move for the ouster of P J Kurien as deputy chairperson of the Rajya Sabha. Bachchan's point is that while Kurien's guilt may not be proven in the Suryanelli sex scandal, "Caesar's wife should be above suspicion".
Fare criticism
At the BJP national executive last week, the Delhi unit was in charge of organisation and many grumbled about the arrangements. Ironically, Vijay Goel, who was recently made president of the Delhi BJP, had patted himself on the back for providing special fare from Chandni Chowk. But the chaat delicacies from the walled city and dosas took time to prepare and the queues for food were long and unruly. Many senior leaders went home to eat their lunch while others stayed hungry. Ironically, in his speech L K Advani focused attention on the inadequacy on the food front even while cautioning BJP workers not to announce it publicly. The next day, luncheon boxes were ready well in advance.
Re: Statewide and National runup to 2014 General elections
Muppalla wrote:Not yet regarding TDP destruction. If TDP succeeds in wooing Muslims, it will be very very good. Things on the ground are really working that way. I am amazed to see CBN spending in so many villages of Krishna and Guntur districts. There is something to that. I think TDP will get the required strength to take on Jagan.RamaY wrote:CBN's son Lokesh is trying to follow Akhilesh Yadav of UP. He wants to start Islamic banking in AP, if he comes to power.
Time to destroy TDP.
and after that, TDP will become Jagan...
we have one set of Abrahamics already growing in power everyday. now, TDP wants to empower the other set also.
I am jumping with joy.
Re: Statewide and National runup to 2014 General elections
Let them compete. Meanwhile that is the opportunity BJP should pick with good leadership
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Hari Seldon
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Re: Statewide and National runup to 2014 General elections
^^ Can't someone do an NTR on CBN? IMO, if tdp loses again, the third loss in a row, it will become like the Guj congress. People will desert that sinking ship in droves and brewing revolt in the ranks can't be that difficult.
Re: Statewide and National runup to 2014 General elections
Hari garu,IMO, if tdp loses again, the third loss in a row, it will become like the Guj congress. People will desert that sinking ship in droves and brewing revolt in the ranks can't be that difficult.
same thoughts here. if TDP looses again, they will unravel.
Re: Statewide and National runup to 2014 General elections
Govt placates Nitish Kumar, transfers governor Devanand Konwar
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 885838.cms
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 885838.cms
The Centre has transferred Devanand Konwar out of Patna Raj Bhavan, in what is its third overture to Nitish Kumar, whom Congress sees as a potential ally. Konwar has swapped places with D Y Patil, who is Tripura Governor.
According to sources, Nitish Kumar has sought Konwar's transfer following a tussle over running of universities and appointments of vice-chancellors. Governors as chancellors have a key role in appointments in universities.
The Centre has also appointed former CBI chief Dr Ashwani Kumar as the governor of Nagaland. He becomes the second chief of CBI, the first being A P Mukherjee who headed the agency for only three months, to bag a gubernatorial assignment. Nikhil Kumar, another retired IPS officer who headed Delhi Police, has been given the charge of Kerala. Kumar was earlier Nagaland governor.
Former Nagaland CM S C Jamir, who served as governor in Goa and Maharashtra, has been appointed governor of Odisha.
Konwar's transfer is seen as part of Congress outreach to the JD(U) leader, amplifying the message of friendship to a secular satrap who has been chaffing at the looming prospect of BJP projecting Gujarat CM Narendra Modi as its choice for PM, and may be willing to explore fresh options before or after the 2014 polls.
While presenting his budget, finance minister P Chidambaram accepted Bihar CM's demand review the criteria for conferring the "backward" status to states. Kumar has been seeking "backward status" for Bihar, and has said that he would support the alliance at the Centre that would agree to his key demand.
In another feeler, Prime Minister Manmohan Singh also praised Bihar for its growth rate in Lok Sabha last week. It is seen as significant in view of JD(U) having crossed swords with Rahul Gandhi over growth and development in the last assembly polls.
Kumar is not seen as a sure-fire ally in NDA, his reservation over Narendra Modi as prime ministerial candidate being non-negotiable. Congress seems to be paving the way for Kumar if he breaks away from NDA.
Re: Statewide and National runup to 2014 General elections
CBN has been blaming Gujarat riots for his loss in 2004. He denies that drought and farmer suicides in the preceding two years have any role.ShyamSP wrote:Seems like he is ready to start Islamic bankingRamaY wrote:CBN's son Lokesh is trying to follow Akhilesh Yadav of UP. He wants to start Islamic banking in AP, if he comes to power.
Time to destroy TDP.
Congress copied his Cash Transfer Scheme. Maybe he wants Congress to do the same with this idea.
WHy does he give so much importance to muslims. If he thinks he can come to power like Akilesh or Mamata riding on muslim votes, he is mistaken. AP doesnt have that big a muslim population.
Re: Statewide and National runup to 2014 General elections
Massive defeat for BJP in KT.
Re: Statewide and National runup to 2014 General elections
Latest ResultsSupratik wrote:Massive defeat for BJP in KT.
BJP is pretty much trounced in all places except Bangalore Urban. Congress seems to be on the lead all across the board.
Re: Statewide and National runup to 2014 General elections
the BJP is definitely finished for a while in KT.
BSY took a few coins and the bellary brothers probably fed meat to all lions but the INC was able to destroy them both due to lack of Dilli BJP strength.
BSY took a few coins and the bellary brothers probably fed meat to all lions but the INC was able to destroy them both due to lack of Dilli BJP strength.
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Hari Seldon
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Re: Statewide and National runup to 2014 General elections
Wow. So the dream has started to sour already. Sad. Despite all the hope, hype and hoopla, bland reality will be that we'll end up with a UPA-3 that the nation can ill-afford only. Sigh.
Re: Statewide and National runup to 2014 General elections
2007 Karnataka ULB : BJP 1180, JDS 1502, CONG 1606 ... 2013 As of now BJP 814, JDS 870 , CONG 1812 , KJP 258 & IND 629
Re: Statewide and National runup to 2014 General elections
Anantha Neera Radia Kumar logic:
"it doesn’t matter if Congress or JDS come to power in state, it would be business as usual for them because their leader has great rapport with Congress & JDS leaders. “In fact, our works got stalled in the BJP government headed by BSY, so it is better that there be a Congress government in the state” avers one of those “leaders”. "
http://centreright.in/2013/01/the-contr ... T2bP9b3D3U
"it doesn’t matter if Congress or JDS come to power in state, it would be business as usual for them because their leader has great rapport with Congress & JDS leaders. “In fact, our works got stalled in the BJP government headed by BSY, so it is better that there be a Congress government in the state” avers one of those “leaders”. "
http://centreright.in/2013/01/the-contr ... T2bP9b3D3U