India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Sagar G · Post by **Sagar G** » 14 Apr 2015 14:29

Government readies national email service: 'Unhackable' server modelled on Gmail will bring secure network to all Indians Published: 23:03 GMT, 23 September 2014

An e-mail service of India’s own is what the government is working on now. The Department of Electronics and Information Technology (DeitY) is working hard to put in place an e-mail service that will ensure government communications and data are effective and unhackable.

The new email service will have smart features, and has been modelled on the lines of Gmail and Yahoo to make it user-friendly.

The new Made-in-India e-mail service will be first rolled out for the use of the Central government after which it will be extended to state governments. In the final phase it will also be made available to all Indian citizens for their interaction with the government.

“The new set-up will be backed by enhanced bandwidth and improved servers positioned in India,” a top official in the Department of Electronics and Information Technology (DeitY) told Mail Today.

He said the work has been fast-tracked and the standardization of e-mail design and templates for the government would be in place by November this year.

DeitY officials said they are still working out on the specifics of rolling out the new e-mail service, but assert it will have everything to make things easier for government babus.

“It will be like a Gmail or a Yahoo platform. Templates are being finalised. Any official communications through our new e-mail will look real and official. The new templates will give an official look to the document and will be taken seriously,” a senior DeitY official said.

The new e-mail service will have features like group sms and chat, and will also have closed user groups.

“You will also have calendars, task managers, bulk sms facility like what Google offers. Users can also send bulk sms through email,” said an official.

Enhancing security

Former telecom secretary and president of National Association of Software and Service Companies (NASSCOM) R. Chandrashekhar said the new government e-mail service will enhance the security of government communications and official data.

“It was initially envisaged primarily for government use but there is nothing inherent in it that prevents it from being used by the public as well,’’ he added.

Although the government has invested more than Rs 800 crore in modernising its existing National Informatics Centre (NIC) to ensure effective communication between departments and to have a system that cannot be hacked, the exercise has not been very successful.

The nic.in network being used now by the government lacks sufficient bandwidth, as a result of which it does not support larger files and makes downloading very slow. This has forced officials to switch to private e-mail accounts such as Gmail or Yahoo even for official work, making the nation’s decision-making system vulnerable to hacking.

As the servers for these e-mail services are in other countries, usually the United States, communications passing through them are vulnerable and open to misuse and data theft, a senior official said.

The problem has assumed such proportions that security agencies have been regularly issuing guidelines on Internet usage to all ministries and government departments for fear that the use of Gmail, Hotmail or other such accounts for internal communication can expose them to interception by networks with servers outside India.

“The Wikileaks revelations concerning India's diplomatic, political and other developments was another eye-opener,” another government official pointed out.

Top officials said the purpose behind having an effective and secure e-mail service is to ensure that the information and data is not leaked.

Project in phases

The new upcoming India-owned Gmail-like platform is part of the ambitious Digital India programme of the Narendra Modi government.

The programme, which would be implemented in a phased manner by 2019, is estimated to cost about Rs 1.13 lakh crore and will largely include ongoing schemes being run by DeitY and the Department of Telecommunications.

“The move is to provide digital empowerment of citizens where all documents, certificates are available on cloud. You will also have a digital wallet scheme, where every citizen from cradle to grave will get a single identity and a space in a public cloud,” said another official.

Another official said: "Very often you hear our colleagues say that they cannot take emails with larger attachments, or that their email inboxes are too full or that it is down completely. This in itself puts all of us to shame. Our government officials rely on American providers for their official and published email IDs rather than on the government's in-house IT department at NIC,” a government official said.

Better communication system on horizon

The Centre is working on widening the ambit of its Restricted Exchange (RAX) system to accommodate more senior government officials.

Telecom Secretary Rakesh Garg told Mail Today on Tuesday that a “new refined and fully encrypted communication system” for the council of ministers and senior officials will be put in place very soon.

“The work on this has been going on for quite some time. Once this specially dedicated secure system is upgraded, we would have all such communications in an encrypted format. The system is being upgraded to a level so that the communication at the top level of governance is made secure with no possibility of it being tampered with. We would also be able to accommodate more officers at the rank of joint secretaries at the Centre,” Garg said.

chaitanya · Post by **chaitanya** » 14 Apr 2015 17:57

Not exactly Indian R&D, but related to supercomputing:

US nuclear fears block Intel China supercomputer update

The US department of commerce blocked the sale of 80,000 Intel Xenon processors to China for upgrading one of their supercomputers, as they suspect that the supercomputer is being used to model nuclear weapons. Shows the need for indigenous processor designs.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 14 Apr 2015 18:55

chaitanya wrote:Not exactly Indian R&D, but related to supercomputing:

US nuclear fears block Intel China supercomputer update

The US department of commerce blocked the sale of 80,000 Intel Xenon processors to China for upgrading one of their supercomputers, as they suspect that the supercomputer is being used to model nuclear weapons. Shows the need for indigenous processor designs.

They already let China have the nuke codes as part of incentive to sign CTBT & released Cray computers early on. China tested the weapons designed using them before signing the CTBT. What's the point of pretending to be for non proliferation!!!

darshhan · Post by **darshhan** » 14 Apr 2015 22:11

Not to mention there is a significant chance that these or similar kind of processors are being manufactured in China itself. In which case sanction itself is moot.

Sid · Post by **Sid** » 14 Apr 2015 22:23

If its actually a COTS Xeon processor then they can either buy it from alibaba or order from Nehru place in Delhi

Maybe due to bulk quantity they went straight to vendor for some sweet discounts. But I think this might not be a regular Xeon proc, probably a souped up version which required Intel to apply for export license. Its not that they won't be run simulations without this upgrade.

But Amreeka is known to have taken such worthless steps(knowing well that they cannot stop the inevitable). For example they restricted actuators for our UAV, but same are being used in Rafale/Hawk AJT which we already operate.

Prasad · Post by **Prasad** » 14 Apr 2015 23:42

Chinese probably already have stm level pictures of the processor by now. Nothing they cant xerox copy, especially processors.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 17 Apr 2015 02:01

Parrikar on DRDO in IBN7

"there are several oasis of excellence in DRDO"

responding to a question on whether DRDO etc can be world renowned

"HAL and DRDO can be world famous .. we need to have patience" "things dont happen in a day, changes occur with time"

"what I want is change in process, improve industry interaction"..

basically he referred to fact DRDO works with pvt/SMEs to develop items, and then has to go for another tender for mass production. So SMEs feel shortchanged. Parrikar has asked for a change in this & proposes that the development partner be a production partner for some five years!

A good step & positive one.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 17 Apr 2015 08:16

http://www.hindustantimes.com/india-new ... 37631.aspx

Q. What are your expectations from your visit to South Korea (April 15-19)?

A. The Prime Minister will be visiting Korea in May. The idea is to discuss some issues so that some agreements can be finalised and signed during the Prime Minister's visit. The Koreans excel in areas such as shipbuilding, electronics and metallurgy. They have also shown interest in the Make in India programme.

Q. The Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) has been without a chief for more than 2 months? What about appointing chief of defence staff?

A. The selection process for the new DRDO chief is on and will happen soon. DRDO will play a key role in boosting the Make in India programme. We will encourage it to tie up with the local industry in the development phase. As for creation of the post of chief of defence staff or permanent chairman of the chiefs of staff committee, I will take up that issue after two months as I already have my hands full with other issues. We do intend to create that post but if I take up everything together I will not be able to do anything.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 17 Apr 2015 09:09

I didnt go through the entire video but was this posted before on BRF ?

DRDO Preparing for Tomorrow

Nikhil T · Post by **Nikhil T** » 18 Apr 2015 00:22

Such a welcome development!

Make in India: IAF airdrops 16-tonne tank using desi parachutes in Leh

The Indian Air Force's Gajraj (Ilyushin Il-76) aircraft dropped the Boyevaya Mashina Pekhoty (BMP) infantry fighting vehicle using the indigenously-developed Heavy Drop System-16T (tonnes) in the first week of April.

chaanakya · Post by **chaanakya** » 18 Apr 2015 00:26

That is not "Make in India" but "Made in India". There is a difference.

srai · Post by **srai** » 18 Apr 2015 07:39

^^^
True.

Made in India -> Designed & Manufactured in India

Make in India -> Designed elsewhere; Manufactured/Assembled (partially or whole) in India

uddu · Post by **uddu** » 18 Apr 2015 09:19

Made in India could also be a subset of Make in India
Make in India = Designed & Manufactured in India + Designed elsewhere; Manufactured/Assembled (partially or whole) in India

abhik · Post by **abhik** » 18 Apr 2015 21:23

Instead of getting hung up on slogans, we need to achieve the following:-
1) Unrestricted Producibility
2) Unrestricted Usability
3) Unrestricted Exportability
It doesn't matter how we achieve this, through our own R&D or buying/stealing/reverse engineering foreign designs.

pankajs · Post by **pankajs** » 19 Apr 2015 14:45

http://pib.nic.in/newsite/PrintRelease. ... lid=118331
Railways to use csir-indian institute of petroleum (csir-iip) technology dehradun to set up plants for plastic to diesel conversion- Dr. Harshvardhan

Indian Railways is soon to set up plants to manufacture diesel for mechanical traction with technology patented by scientists at the CSIR-Indian Institute of Petroleum (CSIR-IIP) Dehradun.

Announcing this in Dehradun today, Dr Harsh Vardhan, Union Minister for Science and Technology and Vice President, CSIR, laid out the roadmap for further exploitation of opportunities in alternative fuel sources. The country’s premier research establishment in hydrocarbons has achieved significant success in reducing national dependence on fossil fuels.

“I have myself campaigned on the streets of Delhi against pollution and plastic proliferation. Today, I am glad to announce that diesel conforming to Euro-5 specifications in sulphur content has become a reality thanks to the CSIR-IIP & GAIL’s diligence and ingenuity,” he said.

The rapid decision to embrace the technology by the world’s largest railway network, Indian Railways, speaks volumes for the Narendra Modi government’s resolve to apply out-of-the-box ideas to reduce India’s carbon footprint. The Minister remarked: “United States President Barack Obama has described Shri Modi as India’s reformer-in-chief. This is not surprising.”

CSIR-IIP, which is part of the Council of Scientific and Industrial Research (CSIR), is currently blazing the trail in offering solutions to global warming. Reducing India’s high dependence on imports and sparing the fossil fuels for the future generations constitute the major focus of its present R&D thrust.

He said, “At the inauguration of the Indian Science Congress in Mumbai in January, I had stated our government’s resolve not to be distracted by falling oil prices by continuing to fund R&D into clean energy. I had CSIR-IIP in mind at the time because I was confident that the time when I could announce to the world this amazing news was drawing near.”

The Minister elaborated: “We are the first to have the capability to convert 1 tonne of broken buckets, mugs, toothpaste tubes, bottle caps and other Polyolefins products into 850 litres of the cleanest grade of diesel. This is the best news yet for the planet this year because henceforth plastic waste will be viewed more as a resource than a nuisance.”

The Minister, who visited the IIP’s campus, inaugurated the Advanced Triblogy Research Centre. He was accompanied by Dr M.O.Garg, Director-General of CSIR who is also the Director of the prestigious establishment. Dr Sudeep Kumar, Head, PPD of CSIR and other scientists were also present on the occasion.

Jet fuel from Jatropha

Another feather in CSIR-IIP’s cap is the successful project to produce low-carbon jet fuel from the inedible, drought-resistant Jatropha plant. This has already captured the imagination of several governments worldwide.

Dr Harsh Vardhan said, “We have gone several steps ahead in developing alternative sources of jet fuel. Jatropha apart, CSIR-IIP has the knowledge to make jet fuel out of any non-edible oil –even the waste cooking oil from our kitchens is soon to become prized material in the market.” The Minister, who has initiated several renewable energy missions in the national capital –including a project to run public toilets with solar power-fuelled taps, exhaust fans and lights – said “We must make a social movement out of alternative fuel use. Our cultural heritage has been one of the most environment friendly. Our villagers have used cowdung cakes as a fuel source for thousands of years. In recent decades we had been following the mad path of over-consumption. Now, thanks to our scientists we can revert to our original mindset of preservation.”

While moving fast with alternative fuels, CSIR-IIP has continued with its founding mission of developing cleaner forms of fossil fuels. This has led to the development of world class sweetening catalyst which helps to remove excessive foul smelling mercaptans from LPG. After capturing the Indian market, recently 600 Kg of this new material hit the international market”, Dr Harsh Vardhan announced.

The Minister remarked that the advanced training courses on Petroleum Refining and Petrochemicals which have been run by the institute right from inception for the Indian hydrocarbon sector has made a major impact on human resource development. He stressed on the importance of imparting necessary skills to operate and optimize plant operations at the international level.

“Energy and environment are two side of the same coin”, he pointed out. “I urge our scientists to constantly strive to develop new technologies and products with zero defect and zero effect which can help to produce a higher GDP per unit of energy consumed. India must be at the forefront of fighting climate change. We would thus help realise the vision of our Prime Minister and President, CSIR.”

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 23 Apr 2015 02:01

There is a Saurav Jha tweet on an article by G. Satheesh Reddy on DRDO organizational culture and future in Def Science Journal Oct 2013.
Please link if possible.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 24 Apr 2015 07:22

another case.

http://www.newindianexpress.com/states/ ... 780265.ece

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 26 Apr 2015 08:42

The PM’s Rafale initiative puts private players in a happy spot

Cutting Through The Sky

hanumadu · Post by **hanumadu** » 28 Apr 2015 02:23

Parl panel calls for DRDO revamp, seeks role for pvt sector

Vipul · Post by **Vipul** » 28 Apr 2015 03:25

Mumbai firm forges steel to Navy’s specs.

Mumbai-based Krishna Allied Industries has indigenised the manufacturing of bulb bars to produce warships for the Navy. “It took months of trial and error to make them to the Navy’s specifications,” said Ashwin Shah, Founder and Chairman of Krishna Allied.

Bulb bars are special kinds of steel bars with a high tensile strength and extreme toughness. Their high strength-to-weight ratio helps reduce the overall weight of the ship, enabling it to carry more cargo. Naval shipbuilding yards such as Mazgaon Dock have been importing bulb bars from Russia and other countries.

Krishna Industries, which won the Defence Technology Absorption Award last year, has developed the technology to make bulb bars locally with the support of the Defence Research and Development Organisation.

“It was a tough task. The biggest challenge was to heat treat the steel sections. Initial results were not that encouraging, but we were not prepared to give up,” said Shah.

The company’s first order was from Mazgaon Dock. Besides saving foreign exchange, the locally made bulb bars work out to be cheaper for shipyards. “We recently got an order for 2,000 tonnes of bulb bars from Garden Reach Shipyard and hope to get more from other yards such as Cochin and Hindustan shipyard,” said Shah, who has proved that small entrepreneurs like him can contribute to the Make in India drive. The company has its manufacturing facilities at Halol in Gujarat. The fully automated unit will soon be powered by solar energy, Shah told BusinessLine.

Nikhil T · Post by **Nikhil T** » 29 Apr 2015 02:53

Make In India: Punj Lloyd and Bharat Force in race for Rs 16,800 crore contract to make anti-aircraft guns

NEW DELHI: Bharat Forge and Punj Lloyd have emerged as the only contenders for a Rs 16,800-crore mega contract to replace the ageing anti-aircraft guns of the Indian Army.

With the defence ministry looking to go ahead with trials and field tests to pick the winner, the two private companies are set to compete for one of the largest army projects under the 'Make in India' programme.

The project — involving manufacturing of 1,102 air defence guns over the next 15 years to replace the vintage L70/ZU 23 that have been in service for decades — promises to establish the winner of the contract as a major defence player in the private sector given that no state-run company, including the Ordnance Factory Board (OFB), is competing for the contract.

The two domestic companies were shortlisted after responses to a tender were received under the 'Buy and Make (Indian)' category earlier this year, people familiar with the matter said.
Make in India: Bharat Forge & Punj Lloyd in race for Rs 16,800 crore contract to make anti-aircraft guns
In the first stage, the manufacturer will have to supply the army with 428 guns over the next five years. The mega contract also involves churning out several lakh rounds of ammunition in India.

However, a long process lies ahead, including extensive field tests for accuracy and reliability, quality checks and scrutiny of the finances of the competitors. In the past, it has taken two-three years to select a winning bid in such contracts.

This will be a pilot project under the Make in India programme for the army.

Bharat Forge has invested heavily in setting up a plant to manufacture artillery systems. The group has bought not only an artillery factory from Swiss firm RUAG and set it up in India but also purchased technology from an Austrian gun manufacturer to jumpstart its entry into the defence manufacturing sector.

For Punj Lloyd, the project provides an opportunity to enter the major league of defence manufacturing, with top executives saying that the company's investment in a manufacturing facility at Malanpur has paid off.

The army's efforts to replace the ageing anti-aircraft guns for the army were muddied in 2012 after the leading manufacturer Rheinmetall Air Defense was banned on corruption charges. The German company was the lead contender for the contract but was barred from operating from India after it was indicted in the OFB scandal.

Thakur_B · Post by **Thakur_B** » 30 Apr 2015 07:34

http://www.defensenews.com/story/defens ... /26125087/

Private consortiums demanding tax breaks to be competitive against BEL for army's TCS. Private players also want that they should be allowed to keep the IP but army wants to keep it with the MoD so as to avoid it's systems getting compromised later.

durairaaj · Post by **durairaaj** » 30 Apr 2015 16:01

Following from another thread,
To Sagar G.,
It's not worth my time to argue with you. This is my last response to your flame baiting and will not repond anymore.
Regarding:

Railways to use csir-indian institute of petroleum (csir-iip) technology dehradun to set up plants for plastic to diesel conversion- Dr. Harshvardhan
...

Converting plastics especially breaking long-chained polymers to liquid fuel of specific carbon chain length is energy intensive (entropy loss is high) and would rather be burnt as it is. (That is what Norway does) Also, these plastics have heavy metals added for coloring and when burned will pollute the air much more than when these were simply buried under earth. (Also search for dioxin effects and plastic burning) We don't have adequate mechanism to ensure the filtering of flue gas. There are no magic catalyst that can take different types of plastics and convert to similar chain length hydrocarbon, so that it can be called as "diesel". Also, there is no low cost heat source to make this cracking reaction happening.(Search for plastics cracking temperature)

If you still don't understand what thermodynamics I'm talking about, please read thermodynamics 101 textbooks.

Instead these plastics can become additives to bitumen or remolded to low quality plastic components such as trash cans, road barriers, display boards, etc... These processes does not require that high temperature. All of the plastics collected by ragpickers in Mumbai is being used for this purpose already. 10~15% of plastics used in India is recycled for the above uses I have mentioned (stats. from IOC R&D). The costly part of the chain is in collecting the plastics.
A better way to use the plastics from municipal waste will be this.
Plastic-roads

Sagar G · Post by **Sagar G** » 03 May 2015 14:20

^^^

I merely asked a few questions regarding the Thermodynamical aspect about the plastic to diesel conversion, why are you getting so fidgety about it ??? The tone of your post suggested that there might be a thermodynamical problem with the conversion process and it's not possible or not worth the effort due to the same but even this response of your's doesn't say anything like that albeit all you are pointing towards is the economical aspect of the process which has got nothing to do with thermodynamics. If your problem regarding this conversion is huge initial investment with questionable return then how come this is a thermodynamics problem ??? You haven't said that the quality of energy available in plastic fuel as compared to diesel is less.

The alternative usage of plastics that you highlight is fine obviously all the plastic in the world isn't going to be converted into liquid fuel, they can be recycled differently.

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 03 May 2015 22:14

My understanding about sources of energy is that thermodynamics and economics are totally inseparable unless you have some magic (very advanced technology) source like fission or (cold?) fusion.

Sagar G · Post by **Sagar G** » 04 May 2015 00:00

So economists are also taught thermodynamics engineering !!!! WOW that's news for me frankly.

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 04 May 2015 00:11

Energy and Environmental Engineers have to study both Thermodynamics and Economics. Whether it is a requirement or not, I don't know. But ask chacha, no? Otherwise, let me go through some UG requirements at a couple of different places in a few days and let you know.

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 04 May 2015 00:18

Sagar G: For reading pleasure - just one sample. UG Energy Minor at Washington University, St. Louis
This minor is with a major in Energy, Environment, Chemical Engineering department of WUSTL. I am sure if somebody wants to do further studies (MS or PhD) in an area like Energy Policy, I am 100% sure that there will be some Economics course requirements.

Sagar G · Post by **Sagar G** » 04 May 2015 00:21

Mechanical engineers are also required to make their design economical so that they have a product in hand which is marketable, funny that they are never taught economics as a subject.

Sagar G · Post by **Sagar G** » 04 May 2015 00:27

vayu tuvan wrote:Sagar G: For reading pleasure - just one sample. UG Energy Minor at Washington University, St. Louis
This minor is with a major in Energy, Environment, Chemical Engineering department of WUSTL. I am sure if somebody wants to do further studies (MS or PhD) in an area like Energy Policy, I am 100% sure that there will be some Economics course requirements.

First of all this is from Murica so not applicable in Indian context, but still from what you have posted

Social Science/Policy/Economics Elective (1 course)

EnSt 332 Energy and Environmental Issues (Spring)
EnSt 451 Environmental Policy (Fall)
EnSt 350 W Environmental Issues: Writing (Spring)

I fail to see any hardcore economics subject being taught to engineers here.

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 04 May 2015 01:49

Here is from another university which is public and well known for its engineering college. WUSTL which is a private school. So for comparison purposes:

This is from Urbana (UIUC) College of Engineering, UG program in Nuclear, Plasma, and Radiological Engineering (NPRE)

Programs of Study: Undergrad

Professional Concentration Area Electives
The NPRE Professional Concentration Area requirement is fulfilled by taking certain required technical and some elective technical courses stressing the rigorous analysis and design principles practiced in one of the three professional concentration areas: Power, Safety, and the Environment; Plasma and Fusion Science Engineering; or Radiological, Medical, and Instrumentation Applications.

Hours Requirements
25 Professional Concentration Area electives. See the Professional Concentration Areas section below.
Liberal Education

The liberal education courses develop students’ understanding of human culture and society, build skills of inquiry and critical thinking, and lay a foundation for civic engagement and lifelong learning.

Hours Requirements
3 ECON 102—Microeconomic Principles or
ECON 103—Macroeconomic Principles
3 Electives from the campus General Education social & behavioral sciences list.
6 Electives from the campus General Education humanities & the arts list.
6 Electives either from a list approved by the college, or from the campus General Education lists for social & behavioral sciences or humanities & the arts.
18 Total
Students must also complete the campus cultural studies requirement by completing (i) one western/comparative culture(s) course and (ii) one non-western/U.S. minority culture(s) course from the General Education cultural studies lists. Most students select liberal education courses that simultaneously satisfy these cultural studies requirements. Courses from the western and non-western lists that fall into free electives or other categories may also be used satisfy the cultural studies requirements.

Composition
These courses teach fundamentals of expository writing.

Hours Requirements
4 RHET 105—Principles of Composition
Advanced Composition. May be satisfied by completing a course in either the liberal education or free elective categories which has the Advanced Composition designation. Alternately, NPRE 481—Writing Sem on Tech & Security should be considered, which may also be applied to the Professional Concentration elective hours.
4 Total

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 04 May 2015 04:15

Sagar G: Take a look if you are still interested at this pdf.
Graduate Education Options in Energy Systems again from UIUC, Urbana.

Others, sorry for spamming from US university websites, but might be of interest to some in the wider audience.

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 04 May 2015 04:26

Sagar G: May I remind what you posted before? Here it is.

Sagar G wrote: ... our's doesn't say anything like that albeit all you are pointing towards is the economical aspect of the process which has got nothing to do with thermodynamics. If your problem regarding this conversion is huge initial investment with questionable return then how come this is a thermodynamics problem ???

Repeat after me - if it doesn't make economic sense, however great and sexy the engineering is and/or fundamental the science is, it will not be funded. There are a few blue sky projects in fundamental sciences and phenomenology but major funding and thrust for research is always going to be "how can it improve the quality of life for humans".
You and I can quibble about the nitty-gritty of allah, yesu, caste-curry-cow but the basic motivation is not going to change.

Pisking, argumentation, aggressiveness, ..., and even veg/non-veg, womensLib, race gender, ... is just sophistry which is not going to take anybody/anything forward.

Added later: This has nothing to do with whether the it is Indian conditions or "yes massa" conditions and whether these are Indian systems getting translated to Amerigai situation. The difference is nada, cypher, shUnya.

Sagar G · Post by **Sagar G** » 04 May 2015 11:11

vayu tuvan wrote:Repeat after me - if it doesn't make economic sense, however great and sexy the engineering is and/or fundamental the science is, it will not be funded.

My last post on the previous page was

Sagar G wrote:Mechanical engineers are also required to make their design economical so that they have a product in hand which is marketable, funny that they are never taught economics as a subject.

You are preaching to the choir here. It's basic designing 101. My questions were regarding the thermodynamic aspect since someone brought it up so I was interested to know the thermodynamic problem w.r.t. plastic to liquid fuel conversion.

If quality of energy is a problem here then please to also take a look at the coal sector in India.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 04 May 2015 11:35

DOn't see what the issue is. Vayu/Durai are pointing out that it costs more energy wise to produce the fuel and extract that energy, than the energy produced, so its a net loss to the system.

Sagar G · Post by **Sagar G** » 04 May 2015 12:19

^^^ Do you have details about how CSIR guys have done it ??? Has the research regarding the same reached a dead end establishing that converting plastic to liquid fuel will end up costing more than the expected output ???

Sagar G · Post by **Sagar G** » 04 May 2015 12:33

Ok I dug some info about the same from their site and they are ready to commercialize their technology so they are pretty serious about it.

Waste Plastics to fuel & Petrochemicals

To develop a fully feasible process for the conversion of waste plastics (polyolefin’s) to value added hydrocarbons e.g. gasoline, diesel and aromatics

Salient Features:
The process is completely environment friendly as no toxic substances are evolved or left over

The process has the potential of augmenting the high value petroleum products as well as providing an environmentally sound method for their disposal.

Adoption of these process can help in keeping the urban and semi-urban areas free from plastics as well as generation of employment and improvement in economic status of lower strata of society

A bit more info

WASTE PLASTICS TO FUEL & AROMATICS: An ecofriendly approach:

Plastics are desirable commodities which provide enormous economic benefits to the society. However the non biodegradability of these plastics has made their disposal a serious environmental concern. All the commonly employed disposal methods have inherent disadvantages and are not suitable for the ever increasing amount of waste plastics being generated. The littering of these wastes has resulted in a general deterioration of hygiene in urban areas as well as threat to the biodiversity in earth`s land and marine region alike.

IIP has developed a unique process by which waste plastics like polyethylene and polypropylene which account for 60 % of the plastics being consumed can be converted to either gasoline or diesel or aromatics alongwith simultaneous production of LPG in each case. 1 Kg of clean waste polyethylene can produce either ~ 750 ml of automotive grade gasoline or ~ 850 ml of automotive grade or ~ 500 ml of aromatics which is rich in petrochemical feedstocks like toluene and xylene. The process is completely environment friendly as no toxic substances are evolved or left over.

The process has the potential of augmenting the high value petroleum products as well as providing an environmentally sound method for their disposal. Adoption of these process can help in keeping the urban and semi-urban areas free from plastics as well as generation of employment and improvement in economic status of lower strata of society like rag pickers etc thereby becoming a boon to the society.

Photu of their setup

Any thermodynamic inspired kamments ???

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 04 May 2015 12:49

Its not about whether they are serious or not. Jatropha inspired fuel stuff has always been up against this issue and it has been debated on the forum before. Just try a search, perhaps the older discussions may be around too.

Sagar G · Post by **Sagar G** » 04 May 2015 12:52

AFAIK Jatropha fuel is still under research, it would be premature to make any kind of comment about it other than what the researching agency is saying.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 04 May 2015 13:03

Again, you are missing the point. The researching agency is making a method to convert it. This is about whether it makes sense to do so given the losses involved (see:http://spectrum.ieee.org/energy/renewab ... lly-green/). If you can find a source that addresses this specific point, then that's addressed. None of this addresses that:

Waste Plastics to fuel & Petrochemicals

To develop a fully feasible process for the conversion of waste plastics (polyolefin’s) to value added hydrocarbons e.g. gasoline, diesel and aromatics

Salient Features:
The process is completely environment friendly as no toxic substances are evolved or left over

The process has the potential of augmenting the high value petroleum products as well as providing an environmentally sound method for their disposal.

Adoption of these process can help in keeping the urban and semi-urban areas free from plastics as well as generation of employment and improvement in economic status of lower strata of society

Employment generation and augmentation dont mention the costs involved.

At best, this can be looked at as a strategic technology wherein we use another source of energy say nuclear power (eg electricity for transportation, power for irrigation/misc items) to create/set up this jatropha based source for other uses which cant directly rely on the former..(vehicles which run on HSD or equivalent)