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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Posted: 07 Sep 2013 12:15
by SSridhar
habal wrote:
Gen Martin Dempsey Warns Not To Strike Syria US Not Ready A Fools Errand McCain Calls Dempsey “Disingenuous”

"...According to The Guardian article, retired Army colonel Bob Killebrew said Dempsey is an “absolute straight shooter” and his reluctance to get involved in Syria is likely “the opinion of all the chiefs.”
So, what is the commander-in-chief going to do ?

Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Posted: 07 Sep 2013 12:31
by member_27444
Ok US leaders often are in the habit crying over the spilled milk or bombs like
Robert McNamara who I used to follow on VOA and read a lot growing up in Blitz as well
In this documentary ( about McNamara) he referred to the Vietnam War and he said, "None of our allies supported us. Not Japan, not Germany, not Britain or France. If we can't persuade nations with comparable values of the merit of our cause, we'd better reexamine our reasoning." (However, 60,000 Australians & 3,500 New Zealanders fought in the Vietnam War, where respectively 500 & 37 died, and 3,000 & 187 were wounded.[35][36])
Hello White House anybody listening
Again Aussies are being sold as roped in along with much despised cheese eating wine drinking lazy French

Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Posted: 07 Sep 2013 12:51
by habal
as C-in-C he can't do anything .. his handlers may replace Dempsey, or may arrange a rogue nuke attack on some dog-forsaken one-pony US town and call it work of Iranians or Lebanese and have a go at Syria and Lebanon together to have the last laugh. It could be a rocket attack on the multitude of naval ships in the mediterranean. It could even be a shortcut to implement the Oded Yinon Master Plan to fragment Syria into a mosaic of sectarian and ethnic groupings. This will help release Lebanese water-resources for Israel and maybe full control of Golan Heights. This cannot happen if they leave Syria to it's own devices for the next 4 months. By that time Assad will have retaken most of the country. So US will strike Syria and Israel will strike Lebanon. So Lebanon is in fray here as well. Recall the 9/11 anguish and desire for revenge against anything or something. Cheerleaders happy, mojo intact, warcriminals happy, budding war criminals also get taste of blood. They are just waiting for a pretext .. a manufactured one. Somebody more cleverer than Saudis who supplied Chloride from water purification plant and called it Sarin will have to manufacture it.

US is only against 'death by chemical' which is haraam, but death by cluster bombs and bullets, and being thrown from top of buildings, beheadings are all halal. A beautiful new world, pious and deathly, death by everything except chemicals await those who walk into the new US world order. In this world, politicians will find themselves in strange conundrum, one moment Kerry and his wife will be sipping fine wine with you. The next day he will be shrieking from pulpit and goading UN to attack you in a 'limited' and 'narrow' campaign. Politicians of the world unite, you have nothing to lose.

All those Indian Khurshids who think shaking hands, pappi jhappis, fine dining with Americans will save them in time of crises, just remember the group photo of Assad, wife with Kerry and wife.

US to sell cluster bombs to Saudi Arabia
U.S. Selling Cluster Bombs Worth 641 Million to Saudi Arabia
By Carey L. Biron

WASHINGTON, Aug 23 2013 (IPS) - Arms control advocates are decrying a new U.S. Department of Defence announcement that it will be building and selling 1,300 cluster bombs to Saudi Arabia, worth some 641 million dollars.

The munitions at the heart of the sale are technically legal under recently strengthened U.S. regulations aimed at reducing impact on civilian safety, but activists contend that battlefield evidence suggests the weapons actually exceed those regulations.

These weapons have not been used by the U.S. in over a decade, so it’s hard to see why it’s in our interest to sell these to Saudi Arabia.” -- Daryl Kimball of the Arms Control Association
Opponents say the move runs counter to a strengthening push to outlaw the use of cluster bombs around the world while also contradicting recent votes by both the U.S. and Saudi governments critical of the use of these munitions.

Both the U.S. and Saudi Arabia have recently condemned the use of cluster munitions by the government of Syria:lol: that’s ironic given this new sale, because a cluster munition is a cluster munition, no matter what kind it is,” Daryl Kimball, executive director of the Arms Control Association, a watchdog group here in Washington, told IPS.
http://www.ipsnews.net/2013/08/u-s-sell ... di-arabia/

these Liars can do or say nothing straight.

Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Posted: 07 Sep 2013 14:24
by Austin
Interview: ‘The Crisis Is Not Only About Syria, But Also About Iran’
Best-selling author, journalist and commentator Robert Fisk
Q : What do you think the US is trying to achieve geo-politically here?

As I have said before, I don't think this is just about Syria. It is about Iran. It is about striking at Iran's only Arab ally.

Q : In Iraq the US and its allies went to war to neutralise non-existent WMDs, based on information that clearly turned out be false. This time, not even Bashar al-Assad's government in Syria is denying that chemical weapons have been used on unarmed civilians in a Damascus suburb ?

Remember when Saddam Hussein used chemical weapons on unarmed civilians in Halabja, no one did anything at all. Saddam, at that point, was a western ally. The CIA put it out that Iran had used the weapons. If the western powers were utterly nonchalant then, why can they be nonchalant now?

Q: Does it surprise you that President Obama, who was greeted with so much hope around the world when he was first elected, and who had said peace in the Middle East would be a priority for his administration, failed to bring about even the realistic possibility of an Israeli-Palestinian settlement?

No, it does not surprise me. Governments are not about good guys and bad guys. Government is about power and the use of power. The structure of power in American politics is well known— total and uncritical support for Israel, right or wrong, even to the detriment of US interests in the Middle East. Faced with the possibility of a one-term presidency, Barack Obama was not prepared to abandon this policy in favour of justice. The presidency was worth more to the Nobel Prize winning president than were the Palestinians.

Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Posted: 07 Sep 2013 14:40
by Singha
Meantime, islamists continue their rampage against copts in southern egypt..even the graves of old hermits and holy men being dug up to hunt for treasure

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/09/0 ... lp00000003

Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Posted: 07 Sep 2013 14:52
by Aditya_V
Singha-> That is similar to what Pakis did to Hindu hermitages after 1947

Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Posted: 07 Sep 2013 14:55
by SSridhar
That is what also happened in the Third Reich.

Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Posted: 07 Sep 2013 14:58
by Singha
I guess the egpyt army has its hands full keeping control in the north, firewalling cairo and alexandria and securing the sinai, so the southern part governance has collapsed and militias slowly linking up and taking over the state.

region is bordered by libya, chad and sudan....nice :( chad, which is not a small country , has a grand total of 4 towns worthy of markup on the map. the northern part is pure sahara...ideal for "trans national workers" to move back and forth using land cruisers and fortuners. saudi arabia is a short trip by dhow across the red sea.

Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Posted: 07 Sep 2013 15:02
by habal
Russia is sending 'special cargo' to Syria in it's warship Nikolai Filchenkov

http://www.inquisitr.com/938614/russian ... rld-war-3/
The Russian warship Nikolai Filchenkov is being given a special mission according to a source from the Saint Petersburg-based central naval command. This Russian warship’s special cargo will be picked up after it leaves the Ukrainian port city of Sevastopol.
http://www.inquisitr.com/938614/russian ... sRRfrJk.99

Meanwhile in 'Lair-e-Liars et Warcriminals' a lot of suspiscious activity is ongoing. A lot of activity is being reported in Texas and South Carolina. Moth-balled weapons being shifted to South Carolina where a shady, creepy Senator has warned, there could be a terrorist attack by the powerful Eyeranians or Hizboolans.
Lindsey Graham Says Charleston Harbor Could Be Attacked: Missing US Nukes in Texas on Way to SC?

CBS Charlotte is quoting Senator Lindsey Graham saying failing to strike Syria could result in terrorists striking Charleston Harbor. Alex Jones is reporting a source at a West Texas Air Force Base where B-1 Bombers are housed saying:

“secret moth-balled weapons that weren’t even supposed to be on the base” were “loaded on trucks and the police said where are these going? Nobody’s signing for it. The base commander simply gave orders and everybody knew that this was completely irregular and there had been a big controversy a few years before when this happened in Minot, North Dakota with cruise missiles…” “The truck drivers said all we’re told is, this is going to South Carolina and we don’t know where it goes from there.”

Graham told reporters in Goose Creek on Tuesday that taking action against Syria in response to the situation is not a question of yes or no, but rather a question of bad or worse choices.

He says if there is no U.S. response, Iran will not believe America’s resolve to block Iran from developing nuclear weapons. Graham also says those nuclear weapons in the hands of terrorists could result in a bomb coming to Charleston Harbor.

He says he’s working to convince South Carolinians weary of war that the situations in Syria and Iran are linked. Graham says Syria could destabilize the entire Middle East.
http://www.maggiesnotebook.com/2013/09/ ... way-to-sc/

US is truly different from rogue nations like Iran, Syria, Lebanon etc. Unlike other countries it takes bombs, missiles towards the scene of action or speculated terror strike, not away from it. A truly remarkable nation from all respects.

Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Posted: 07 Sep 2013 15:08
by anmol
Footage of chemical attack in Syria is fraud — RT Op-Edge
rt.com | Sep 6th 2013 12:29 PM

There is proof the footage of the alleged chemical attack in Syria was fabricated, Mother Agnes Mariam el-Salib, mother superior of St. James Monastery in Qara, Syria, told RT. She says she is about to submit her findings to the UN.

Mother Agnes, a catholic nun, who has been living in Syria for 20 years and has been reporting actively on what has been going on in the war-ravaged country, says she carefully studied the video featuring allegedly victims of the chemical weapons attack in the Syrian village of Guta in August and now questions its authenticity.

In her interview with RT, Mother Agnes doubts so much footage could have been taken in so little time, and asks where parents of the supposedly dead children are. She promises to send her report to the UN.

The nun is indignant with the world media for apparently turning a blind eye to the Latakia massacre by rebel extremists, which left 500 civilians including women and children dead.

Russia’s Foreign Ministry has called on the international community to pay attention to revelations made by Mother Agnes Mariam el-Salib.

RT: The United States has used internet photos and video footage of the supposed chemical weapons attack in Eastern Guta to build a case against the Syrian government. Have you been able to look at these files? What do you have to say about them?

Mother Agnes: I have carefully studied the footage, and I will present a written analysis on it a bit later. I maintain that the whole affair was a frame-up. It had been staged and prepared in advance with the goal of framing the Syrian government as the perpetrator.

The key evidence is that Reuters made these files public at 6.05 in the morning. The chemical attack is said to have been launched between 3 and 5 o’clock in the morning in Guta. How is it even possible to collect a dozen different pieces of footage, get more than 200 kids and 300 young people together in one place, give them first aid and interview them on camera, and all that in less than three hours? Is that realistic at all? As someone who works in the news industry, you know how long all of it would take.

The bodies of children and teenagers we see in that footage – who were they? What happened to them? Were they killed for real? And how could that happen ahead of the gas attack? Or, if they were not killed, where did they come from? Where are their parents? How come we don’t see any female bodies among all those supposedly dead children?

I am not saying that no chemical agent was used in the area – it certainly was. But I insist that the footage that is now being peddled as evidence had been fabricated in advance. I have studied it meticulously, and I will submit my report to the UN Human Rights Commission based in Geneva.

RT: Recently you’ve visited Latakia and the adjacent areas, you’ve talked to the eyewitnesses to the massacre of civilians carried out in Latakia by Jabhat al-Nusra. What can you tell us about it?

MA: What I want to ask first of all is how the international community can ignore the brutal killing spree in Latakia on Laylat al-Qadr early in the morning of August 5, an attack that affected more than 500 people, including children, women and the elderly. They were all slaughtered. The atrocities committed exceed any scale. But there was close to nothing about it in the international mass media. There was only one small article in “The Independent”, I believe.

We sent our delegation to these villages, and our people had a look at the situation on-site, talked to the locals, and most importantly – talked to the survivors of the massacre.

I don’t understand why the Western media apply double standards in this case – they talk about mass murder that the use of chemical weapons resulted in non-stop, but they keep quiet about the Latakia massacre.

RT: Do you know anything about the fate of hostages captured in Latakia?

MA: In the village of Estreba they massacred all the residents and burnt down their houses. In the village of al-Khratta almost all the 37 locals were killed. Only ten people were able to escape.

A total of twelve Alawite villages were subjected to this horrendous attack. That was a true slaughterhouse. People were mutilated and beheaded. There is even a video that shows a girl being dismembered alive – alive! – by a frame saw. The final death toll exceeded 400, with 150 to 200 people taken hostage. Later some of the hostages were killed, their deaths filmed.

At the moment we are looking for the hostages and negotiating their release with the militants, but so far we haven’t managed to achieve that.

RT: We often hear reports of Christians being persecuted by the militants. Just the day before yesterday there was an attack in the village of Maaloula, where the majority of population is Christian. Are Christians in Syria facing grave danger?

MA: Everyone in Syria is facing grave danger. There was a case of Muslim religious leaders being kidnapped and beheaded. They were humiliated and tortured. Ismailis, the druze, Christians – people from all parts of Syrian society – are being mass murdered. I would like to say that if these butchers didn’t have international support, no one would have dared to cross the line. But today, unfortunately, the violation of human rights and genocide in Syria is covered up on the international level. I demand the international community stops assessing the situation in Syria in accordance with the interests of a certain group of great powers. The Syrian people are being killed. They fall victim to contractors, who are provided with weapons and sent to Syria to kill as many people as possible. The truth is, everywhere in Syria people are being kidnapped, tortured, raped and robbed. These crimes remain unpunished, because the key powers chose international terrorism as a way to destroy sovereign states. They’ve done it to other countries. And they will just keep doing it if the international community doesn’t say “Enough!”

RT: You’ve managed to get hold of some sensitive information. Does this make you fear for your life as someone who keeps documents that may compromise the militants? Has anyone threatened you?

MA: You are right. I do get threatened. They are trying to discredit me. I know there is a book coming out soon in France that labels me as a criminal who kills people. But any believer should first and foremost trust their conscience, their belief in God, and that will help them save innocent lives. I don’t care much about my own life. My life is no more precious than that of any Syrian child, whose body could be used as evidence to justify wrongdoing. This is the biggest crime ever perpetrated in history.

RT: What should the Syrians do to stop the tragedy they are going through?

MA: The Syrians themselves can do nothing to stop it. They can only rely on the international community, friendly nations, world powers, such as Russia, China, and India. With a lot of enthusiasm we did welcome the news that the British parliament voted against the participation of their country in the possible war against Syria. There is a terrorist war going on against Syria right now. The international community and Syria’s friends should join forces and say: Enough! And they need to use every opportunity to do that. Otherwise this threat Syria is facing now will turn into a threat to universal peace.

RT: What should the Vatican and other hubs of Christianity do to put an end to this tragedy?

MA: The Pope says he has no planes, no bombs, and no armed forces. Instead, he has the power of the truth, and the truth he has told. There are messages coming from everywhere in the world urging against a military intervention in Syria. Those who want to hear them will. The Pope, the patriarchs, Nobel Prize winners, including women, keep saying the same in unison: Let’s stop fighting. No conflict can be solved by military means. Stop adding fuel to the flame!
All the prominent public figures in the world have risen to speak against the war. Everyone has spoken their mind, but the US prefers to turn a deaf ear. The world public opinion has turned against the US. It’s the first time in history that America is alone. They are claiming that they are backed by ten countries. But I insist they aren’t, because the people of these countries disagree with their governments. Even the American people disagree with their government.

RT: Do you believe that this tragedy will end and Syria will remain a homeland for all Syrians, regardless of their ethnical or religious identity?

MA: I’m not Syrian myself, but I’ve been living in Syria for 20 years. I’d like to remind everyone that Damascus is the most ancient capital in the world. I would like to remind everyone that Syria is the cradle of civilization. I would like to remind everyone that this is the holy land that gave birth to the main world religions. What is happening in Syria should serve as a lesson for everyone. I mean that in existential rather than political sense. I am convinced that with God’s help the Syrian people will be able to remain strong, heal their wounds, reconcile and chase out all the foreign mercenaries and terrorists. I believe there will be peace in Syria. But for that we need help from the international community.

Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Posted: 07 Sep 2013 15:25
by RSoami
If Russia decides to arm Syria or is in the process of doing so, things could get quite messy.
The Yakhonts and Buks may cause a lot of discomfort.
On the brighter side we could see some nice fighting between Unkills and Bear`s weapon systems.
And its quite possible that the largeRussian ships out there are specifically for the purpose of delivering arms to the Syrians.

Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Posted: 07 Sep 2013 15:39
by member_20317
Some of you with distinctly anti US stance in this war need to be careful, if you live and work in US.

Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Posted: 07 Sep 2013 17:10
by Singha
is there land based versions of the shipwreck? the proposed strike for consists of 4 DDG51 ships with a est 200 thawks loaded and perhaps 1 ohio converted boat with around 150 if loaded fully.
syria can do nothing about submarine based strikes , only ruN could send some subs to harass and dual with US subs underwater...but the threat of shipwreck/kalibr is quite potent for surface ships, esp with ruN ships scattered around the place as eyes n ears.

media has now deftly turned the talk to using fighters and B2's

Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Posted: 07 Sep 2013 17:12
by Garooda
Rudradev wrote:Jones,

Putin has said he will help. What kind of help, I wonder? An S300 system or five, perhaps?

We may well see some F-16 Pussies get blown out of the sky by Russki hardware :mrgreen:
Isn't it amazing? Russkis cried the same drama before Iraq and ofcourse sold the hardware to Saddam. Sometimes its amazing all the shows thats put upfront for the world while who the heck knows the backend deals being made by many nations. Do you think Russia truly cares about Syria?

Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Posted: 07 Sep 2013 17:19
by member_27444
I am 95% confident that US systems will out perform Russian systems two or more reasons

1) Past Record of Russian systems performance in ME conflicts

2) the ability of Arab Army, Air Force and Navy falls short of good forces.

3) it's different when Arabs are free to slaughter non combatants or facing another Arab army.

4) the 8 years of war between Iran and Iraq is good enough to bolster the proof.

5 I would rate Iranian forces couple of Notches higher than Arab army

Just my 2 cents.

At the end of the day the man behind the machine counts a lot

Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Posted: 07 Sep 2013 17:23
by member_27444
No Russia cares about its own interests so does US rightly ok many times wrongly

If Syria is not protected at least in words if not in deeds you can expect one by one CIS states to welcome American bases some of them have already done so

Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Posted: 07 Sep 2013 17:55
by vishvak
What is position of secularism - its stand and justifications - in Syria now?

Or is it that everyone is declared secular (how) and then has declared this a war between secular people only.

Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Posted: 07 Sep 2013 18:20
by habal
position of secularism ? Here it is .. like if the Saudi King destroys Mohammad's grave or house or courtyard, it isn't an issue for the ummah 'bommai' (tamil puppet), similarly anything US does, using phosphorus, napalm, cluster bombs can never harm secularism.

Got that ?

Syrian Christians in Danger if US Attacks, Christian Relief Worker Says
As the U.S. Congress debates authorizing a military strike against the Syrian military for its use of biological weapons against innocent civilians, the impact of such a strike on the Christians in the country has been a cause of concern. To get a better understanding of the situation, The Christian Post spoke with Rupen Das, director for community development and relief at the Lebanese Society for Educational and Social Development.

Das, who is leading the aid efforts in Syria for LSESD, warned that a strike against Syria could make things worse for Christians there, who have already been attacked by some of the anti-Christian rebel forces.

"If the regime forces are weakened or temporarily off balance, there is every indication that the radical groups will use the opportunity to step up their attack on the Christian and Alawite communities," Das said.
http://www.christianpost.com/news/syria ... ys-103974/
Amyrao wrote:I am 95% confident that US systems will out perform Russian systems two or more reasons
and what if the 5% prevails defying all predictions ? will Obama be accidented like Kennedy after cuban missile crisis ?

Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Posted: 07 Sep 2013 18:38
by Austin
http://rt.com/news/syria-crisis-live-updates-047/
11:44 GMT: The European Union's Catherin Ashton claims that available information is enough to constitute strong evidence of the Syrian regime's responsibility for Augusts' chemical attack.

11:20 GMT: President Obama said that a small military force may be needed in Syria after all, to deter future chemical weapons attacks – according to Reuters. Although he said on his weekly radio and internet address that a protracted conflict like “Iraq or Afghanistan” is not something he wants.

Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Posted: 07 Sep 2013 18:38
by member_20317
@habal,

replied in Operation Theater (OT)

Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Posted: 07 Sep 2013 18:45
by member_27444
Austin wrote:http://rt.com/news/syria-crisis-live-updates-047/
11:44 GMT: The European Union's Catherin Ashton claims that available information is enough to constitute strong evidence of the Syrian regime's responsibility for Augusts' chemical attack.

11:20 GMT: President Obama said that a small military force may be needed in Syria after all, to deter future chemical weapons attacks – according to Reuters. Although he said on his weekly radio and internet address that a protracted conflict like “Iraq or Afghanistan” is not something he wants.
So things are moving according to script
The EU persona pronouncement is to sway the American public opinion before the POTUS speech

If EU is convinced that much more pressure

Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Posted: 07 Sep 2013 19:20
by svinayak
Amyrao wrote:No Russia cares about its own interests so does US rightly ok many times wrongly

If Syria is not protected at least in words if not in deeds you can expect one by one CIS states to welcome American bases some of them have already done so
It is the geopolitical interest which is very critical

Russia has bigger stake in Syria after investing in pipelines and other infra
Sunni with the backing of US are taking over all the weak states and is reducing the influence of Russia in the entire middle east

This will tilt the balance of power and will lead to long term civil war.

Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Posted: 07 Sep 2013 19:25
by Lalmohan
if the longer term goal is to let the ROP1 guys and ROP2 guys duke it out until no one is left standing, i don't have huge problem with that, but to do that people probably need to stand outside the ring rather than wander into it

Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Posted: 07 Sep 2013 19:28
by Singha
imo this is the last chance for Russia to show itself a force to be reckoned with in ME. else Iran is just the next domino to fall to wipe the slate clean and Pax Saudica to prevail with its troops of jihad monkeys howling and mewling at the full moon from mauritania to herat.

rus should imo deploy a few batallions of russian airborne forces to be followed by more seaborne forces and put boots on the ground after signing some midnight treaty. it could be a IPKF style request by assad to help clean out the rebels. open the tap on arms to the assad regime. ... fly in their best radars and missiles, with operators. fly in some Mig31s and Shmels to patrol the air . forward deploy. Show the flag. be a cold war cuddly bear again. get backfire and blackjack units to patrol and buzz USN assets. encourage Cheen to send a large flotilla to muddy the waters further and defend its own markets. :D

US love it or hate it , did risk its blood and treasure to capture Iraq and Afghanistan. nobody counts as a gorilla unless they do this when their vital interests are at stake. even today , whatever be the media soundbytes I am sure atleast 3 marine MEUs are being kept on high readiness should a force landing be decided on, along with army units on the jordan and turkey front. sure it might take 2 months to move everything into place.....but they wont hesitate to pull the trigger if it comes to that. thats a gorilla behaviour.

Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Posted: 07 Sep 2013 19:33
by JwalaMukhi
Name one country which has been supported by Russia that has become better than what it was before being supported.
Perhaps Cuba... If that's the best the Russia can do, there is not much to look forward for aspiring quislings of Russia, Is there?
Russia doesn't have wherewithal to bring in betterment of other nations in any other sphere. It basically means it can sell military hardware and render other nations impotent to even conceive of self sufficiency. Most nations supported by Russia are cess pit of mediocrity.

Russia does not have expertise to put in place systems - overall for any other nation to better itself, because it can't be a role model. It doesn't have the holistic solutions that are remotely attractive to other nations, beyond military hardware. Russia although is principally is in it for itself as other nations do, but it doesn't have anything evenly remotely to bring in overall betterment of others who look to it. Unless, it overcomes that major handicap, it will have to be content with just peddling arms as its strong point.

Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Posted: 07 Sep 2013 19:51
by Austin
Acharya wrote:It is the geopolitical interest which is very critical

Russia has bigger stake in Syria after investing in pipelines and other infra
Sunni with the backing of US are taking over all the weak states and is reducing the influence of Russia in the entire middle east

This will tilt the balance of power and will lead to long term civil war.
Russia has no pipelines running though Syria and no much infra as well . Also there is no Guarantee that any one who comes to power after Assad will be pro Russia or pro US ........Look at US after spending $2 trillion and 10 years in Iraq with tremendous loss to life and material ......can it claim to have a pro-US government in Iraq ?

Eventually the Shia will fight their own war irrespective they get any support or not as its a struggle for its own existant , the fact that Russia , China , Iran and others support them either Financially , Humanatrian or Economically makes it thats much better.

Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Posted: 07 Sep 2013 19:54
by Austin
JwalaMukhi wrote:Name one country which has been supported by Russia that has become better than what it was before being supported.
Perhaps Cuba... If that's the best the Russia can do, there is not much to look forward for aspiring quislings of Russia, Is there?
Russia doesn't have wherewithal to bring in betterment of other nations in any other sphere. It basically means it can sell military hardware and render other nations impotent to even conceive of self sufficiency. Most nations supported by Russia are cess pit of mediocrity.

Russia does not have expertise to put in place systems - overall for any other nation to better itself, because it can't be a role model. It doesn't have the holistic solutions that are remotely attractive to other nations, beyond military hardware. Russia although is principally is in it for itself as other nations do, but it doesn't have anything evenly remotely to bring in overall betterment of others who look to it. Unless, it overcomes that major handicap, it will have to be content with just peddling arms as its strong point.
Can Iraq today claim to better then they were under Saddam after US invasion of its country and 10 years of occupation ?

Did all the US money spent made the life of ordinary Iraqi and Afghanistan people all the more better today ?

If any thing else it made the US poor by couple of trillion of $$ and got great loss of Life to their own people.

Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Posted: 07 Sep 2013 20:09
by member_27444
The simple truth of the matter.
Its not worth to spill even 1 ounce of a marines blood for 1000 jihadists and Saudi cronies
Period.

Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Posted: 07 Sep 2013 20:18
by habal
The simple truth of the matter.
Its not worth to spill even 1 ounce of a marines blood for 1000 jihadists and Saudi cronies
Period.
why so much love for marines ? this is Bharat Rakshak and never was US an Indian ally.
and why make period for them ?

Meanwhile some inconvenient facts have emerged for Kerry, McCain and the 'Assad gassed the women and children marine division'. The children shown as gassed in Eastern Ghouta were Alawite children :evil: who were kidnapped by the Jallad Al Khusra.

http://www.voltairenet.org/article180130.html
Following the broadcasting of the images of the massacre in Ghouta, distributed by the Free Syrian Army and relayed by US and French services, Alawite families from Latakia have filed a complaint for murder.

Some of these videos were filmed and posted on Youtube before the events they picture.

They show children suffocating from a chemical intoxication that can’t possibly be sarin gas (the latter provokes yellow drool, not white drool).

The children do not correspond to a sample of the population: they are all almost of the same age and have light hair. They are not accompanied by their grieving families.

They are in fact children who were abducted by jihadists two weeks before in Alawite villages in the surroundings of Latakia, 200km away from Ghouta.

Contrary to the sayings of the Free Syrian Army and the Western services, the only identified victims of the Ghouta massacre are those belonging to families that support the Syrian government. In the videos, the individuals that show outrage against the ’’crimes of Bashar el-Assad’’ are in reality their killers.
:evil:

Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Posted: 07 Sep 2013 20:36
by vishvak
Jihadis are running wild in Syria while others are talking.

Wondering what would Syrians - ordinary not pretenders- would say about secularism.
If Indian PM says in G20 that since we have word secular in constitution therefore all secular people are normal and non-secular are wajib-e-whatever. What would be reaction from
1 US, NATO
2 Russia, China
3 Sunni block including al-mobs, pakiban
4 Shia block
5 Israel, Jewish block
6 Rest of G20 if remaining

Most important again, people of Syria.

Also when and if it is established that al-mobs are gassing and genociding like wild pigs, how and when will they face similar war now thrust on SArmy. Will secularism help anyone or even as an argument here against al-mobs and their backers?

Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Posted: 07 Sep 2013 20:54
by Dipanker
Singha wrote:imo this is the last chance for Russia to show itself a force to be reckoned with in ME. else Iran is just the next domino to fall to wipe the slate clean and Pax Saudica to prevail with its troops of jihad monkeys howling and mewling at the full moon from mauritania to herat.

rus should imo deploy a few batallions of russian airborne forces to be followed by more seaborne forces and put boots on the ground after signing some midnight treaty. it could be a IPKF style request by assad to help clean out the rebels. open the tap on arms to the assad regime. ... fly in their best radars and missiles, with operators. fly in some Mig31s and Shmels to patrol the air . forward deploy. Show the flag. be a cold war cuddly bear again. get backfire and blackjack units to patrol and buzz USN assets. encourage Cheen to send a large flotilla to muddy the waters further and defend its own markets. :D

US love it or hate it , did risk its blood and treasure to capture Iraq and Afghanistan. nobody counts as a gorilla unless they do this when their vital interests are at stake. even today , whatever be the media soundbytes I am sure atleast 3 marine MEUs are being kept on high readiness should a force landing be decided on, along with army units on the jordan and turkey front. sure it might take 2 months to move everything into place.....but they wont hesitate to pull the trigger if it comes to that. thats a gorilla behaviour.
Other than selling arms for money, Russia will not intervene. Post Soviet Union era, Uncle has exposed them time and again. Recall the 3 month bombing of Serbia by NATO, and Serbs were supposed to be Russia's Slav brothers.

Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Posted: 07 Sep 2013 20:59
by JwalaMukhi
Austin wrote: Can Iraq today claim to better then they were under Saddam after US invasion of its country and 10 years of occupation ?

Did all the US money spent made the life of ordinary Iraqi and Afghanistan people all the more better today ?

If any thing else it made the US poor by couple of trillion of $$ and got great loss of Life to their own people.
It is missing the point. The point of intervention and occupancy is not to make life better for the occupied. They are being reshaped so the occupied peoples, stew in their own juices and remain confined within, without capability of exporting their troubles to the occupiers.

This is not morality question of whether lives have become better or bashing of unkil's morality. There are already many number of them who make a living out of bashing unkil even in unkilland itself (chomosky et.al). That is different topic.

The question is what is cost/benefit ratio from the perspective of a would be quisling to Russia. How it benefits a would be quisling to depend on Russia. IOW what would a aspiring quisling of Russia expect to achieve, by seeing what happened to others who were supported by Russia. What are the actual capabilities and competencies that Russia can provide other than military hardware/expertise? This kind of uni-dimensional support of just arms/armaments are attractive mainly to dictators whose interests may or may not coincide with the peoples they dictate to.

Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Posted: 07 Sep 2013 21:09
by habal
russia had begun preparing for this as early as July itself. So they are not in it for arms money only.
Now enter new reports surfacing from the Russian Defense Ministry on orders of Vladimir Putin that the largest military ‘state of full combat readiness’ drill is taking place with around 160,000 troops ordered to report from all corners of the military. Specifically, the translated reports detail how Putin is calling together not just Armed Forces of Russia troops, but all forms of long-range aircraft, 70 naval ships, bomber and fighter aircraft, and so on.

According to a syndicated Russian announcement:

“On Friday, during a meeting with Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu Russian, Russian President Vladimir Putin ordered an unexpected military drill, urging all forces to enter a state of full combat readiness on the night of July 13.”

In other words, these reports says that Putin is essentially assembling the entire military in the largest such event since the Soviet Union. This is coming in from the Russian language version of Forbes and other Russian sources translated to English.

Is this massive ‘state of full combat readiness’ initiated on July 13th just a training exercise with no further intention, or is it related to to the attack by Israel on Russian-made missiles in Syria?
http://intellihub.com/2013/07/15/160000 ... rtin-case/

But Mr. McCain does not think so .. he thinks the Russians, Iranians & Chinese are bluffing, because they do not have what he has and that too swollen like hydrocele. And he has guaranteed that, so he can have his WW3 fun as well.

Senator John McCain, the ambassador of al-qaeda, guarantees Russia and China will Not retaliate a U.S Syria strike…basically because they dont have the balls..VIDEO

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jo9Nmeyz5lo

Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Posted: 07 Sep 2013 21:21
by habal
JwalaMukhi wrote:
Austin wrote: Can Iraq today claim to better then they were under Saddam after US invasion of its country and 10 years of occupation ?

Did all the US money spent made the life of ordinary Iraqi and Afghanistan people all the more better today ?

If any thing else it made the US poor by couple of trillion of $$ and got great loss of Life to their own people.
It is missing the point. The point of intervention and occupancy is not to make life better for the occupied. They are being reshaped so the occupied peoples, stew in their own juices and remain confined within, without capability of exporting their troubles to the occupiers.

This is not morality question of whether lives have become better or bashing of unkil's morality. There are already many number of them who make a living out of bashing unkil even in unkilland itself (chomosky et.al). That is different topic.

The question is what is cost/benefit ratio from the perspective of a would be quisling to Russia. How it benefits a would be quisling to depend on Russia. IOW what would a aspiring quisling of Russia expect to achieve, by seeing what happened to others who were supported by Russia. What are the actual capabilities and competencies that Russia can provide other than military hardware/expertise? This kind of uni-dimensional support of just arms/armaments are attractive mainly to dictators whose interests may or may not coincide with the peoples they dictate to.
the cost/benefit ratio was lopsided because dollar was reserve currency. Thanks to Obama and 'quantitative easing' wherein economies have no reason to be hooked to dollar anymore, Russians are now in a moral position to challenge that. They are not openly committed to war because it will then encourage the west to indulge Russians in a war of attrition like Afghanistan. This time Russia is on the side of the good mujahids, aka the Rambo brigade of Hezbollah, Al Quds, Iranians, SAA and the Americans are in the role of evil empire. The calculating Dr.Who can be played by prince Bandar who releases chloride from Saudi Water treatment plants, gasses Alawi kids and calls world to retaliate against Assad. The enemies of Russia gas children for propaganda, and carry out beheadings and the old CBI tactic of throwing down human bodies from top of building.

This time it isn't going to be easy for Unkil chunkil, and they are going to be defeated, say what you will, whether they use F-22, B-52, or B-2.

Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Posted: 07 Sep 2013 21:35
by Singha
hollande now claims he will wait for full UN report which as everyone knows can take some 4 weeks to finalize. maybe he has read a few tea leaves better than Mccain sahib and is looking to ease himself gingerly back from the brink..step by step...lucrative deals like the Mistral ship of DCN & follow on orders and perhaps many machinery/constructions deals in russia are hanging in balance for france.

Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Posted: 07 Sep 2013 21:37
by pankajs
French president now says .. wait for the UN report ... French public 68% opposed to a strike ... per a major French paper

Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Posted: 07 Sep 2013 21:38
by Singha
few days back these guys couldnt wait to unzip their pants and skirts and jump into bed. now parroting the goodness of virginity! something happened in last 2-3 days...perhaps Rus made a under the bedsheet threat to put boots on ground via G20 back channels...I cant think of anything else that changed. its still the same old assad, same old jihad monkeys prowling the yard.

European Union Wants U.N. Report Before Any Strike
By MICHAEL R. GORDON 10:06 AM ET
The top foreign policy official for the European Union endorsed the French decision to wait until United Nations inspectors submitted their report on an Aug. 21 chemical attack, even though the results might be “preliminary.”

Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Posted: 07 Sep 2013 21:39
by Austin
JwalaMukhi wrote:The question is what is cost/benefit ratio from the perspective of a would be quisling to Russia. How it benefits a would be quisling to depend on Russia. IOW what would a aspiring quisling of Russia expect to achieve, by seeing what happened to others who were supported by Russia. What are the actual capabilities and competencies that Russia can provide other than military hardware/expertise? This kind of uni-dimensional support of just arms/armaments are attractive mainly to dictators whose interests may or may not coincide with the peoples they dictate to.
Russia is not helping Syria to bring in democracy like US did in Iraq or for some ideological reasons ... it is only helping Syria so that International Order is preserved and sanctity of UN which has been conveniently over looked by UN when it suited their interest.

Russia has stated many times its not there to protect Assad but to ensure that any governance includes all the stake holders of Syria and not ruled by Jihadi forces funded by some wealthy Sunni nations.

Russia has nothing much to loose if just over looks the other side because it is under no legal obligation to protect Syria or Iran or some Shia nations barring the CSTO countries , but if nations like US and West continues to over ride UN for its own petty selfish shortsighted motives then some one needs to stand up ....Russia did ......so did China and so did BRICS nation and few other countries.

Its pretty much an Agression on part of US and West to attack Syria on behalf on Saudi and others and makes a mockery of UN .....granted Assad is no less an evil person but ATM it looks like the lesser of the two Evil and no one is betting Syria future on Assad not even Russia or China.

The best bet is to find a political solution by talks .......that is the only thing that can last taking all the Syria people in to confidence ......else the ethenic fight will continue for many year or even decades to come IMO.

Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Posted: 07 Sep 2013 21:48
by pankajs
Two-thirds of French oppose Syria action: poll
PARIS — More than two-thirds of French people are against the country taking part in international military action in Syria, according to a newspaper poll published Saturday.

The survey for French daily Le Figaro showed the country's opposition to military action against the Damascus regime has increased markedly since the end of August.

Asked whether they would be in favour of French participation -- which President Francois Hollande strongly supports -- 68 percent of respondents said no.

That was an increase of nine percentage points on a survey published on August 29.

The survey also showed that 64 percent oppose all international military action in Syria -- irrespective of French involvement -- compared with just 45 percent on August 29.

Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Posted: 07 Sep 2013 21:58
by member_27444
Humanity whether it is American or non Islamists is same.
Why would any human life including Indian, American, Russian etc be wasted for propping up jihadist thugs?

Also for once and the first time when Sarah plain said let Allah decide the fate of Syrians
Her chest must have swelled with genuine pride which I can understand as a nationalist.