West Asia News and Discussions

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habal
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by habal »

there are a lot of folks who are too cautious after having been bitten thrice in a span of a decade. Eyeraq, Lybia, & now Syria. Now people are beginning to get used to analysis of US invincibility and inevitability. But then destiny always throws up surprises, and so it shall this time around.

meanwhile entertain yourselves with this .. Kerry's kutta does bow-bow .. the pet also thinks everyone is like it's master ..

http://www.yalibnan.com/2013/09/08/syri ... -and-liar/
Syria’s FSA leader calls Russia’s Putin a ‘Terrorist’ and ‘liar’
SEPTEMBER 8, 2013 ⋅ 3:19 AM ⋅ POST A COMMENT

General Salmin Idris, the leader of the Free Syria Army (FSA) , called Vladimir Putin a terrorist today after the Russian president said that allegations of a August 21 chemical weapons attack in the suburbs of Damascus was a “provocation” by Syrian rebels.

President Putin is lying,” Gen. Idriss told Fox News. “He knows exactly that the regime is killing our citizens … and is using Russian weapons and ammunition, tanks, [and] Scud missiles to destroy all the liberated areas. This man, President Putin, is a terrorist. And he is trying now to deceive the international community.”
---
The inability of India to correctly read the tea leaves (based on most likely scenarios) might once again become obvious.
since you have already decided that India's course is wrong and your prescription is correct. Then what do you suggest should be the course of action. You have listed all issues including India's flawed legacy of romantic approach to issues but no solutions on how to take the matter forward. Montek & Chidambaram can give competition to Kerry at every level, and then some more. Maybe they can also sip wine and dine with Kerry. So I am least concerned on that front.

Russia has implied that it won't supply boots to the ground, but will do everything else. And that should be enough to harass the all-lied coalition. Maybe a false flag attack on US soil can also be arranged by Kerry's all-lies and Iran, Lebanon dragged in as well. There will be some furious retaliation by the all-lies on that pretext but then it will again wind down to war of attrition. I fully expect some incident to be staged before vote in US Congress goes through. Whoever directly gets involved in Syria will bleed.

Then there is also the slim chance that nothing can happen whatsoever, and this entire thing was a setup so as to discredit bandar & AIPAC types from going solo on any issue again and to force them to stick to the party line. Also Obama is shown his place and it is impressed upon him that he can never be as good a deceiver leader as the true blue-blooded ones.
Last edited by habal on 08 Sep 2013 18:29, edited 1 time in total.
member_27444
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by member_27444 »

Life and counties are organic, also humans by instinct tend to optimize utility. that is circumstances of immediate opportunity.

Assad or no Assad, Syria will exist in some for shape

Which shape does each country want
Which can influence the shaping
Which shape if one can't influence will be most desirable and or least desirable
Which way can each prepare for, or play as it goes

Thiese are the one that needs to be studied at least tangentially
JwalaMukhi
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by JwalaMukhi »

Fortunately, India has not done anything out of the ordinary to shoot itself in the foot yet. It shouldn't be a mere bystander, caught on the wrong foot. It should prepare itself for the changes that are going to be happening.

India doesn't have ability to arrest the changes that are going to happen in Syria and the wider region, but it can be prepared to brace itself to adapt to the changes so it doesn't adversely affect Indian interests.

For that, firstly one should stop fantasizing things like sinking of sindhurakshak is somehow related to the wider conflict in west asia or dreaming of forming some kind of coalition with Iran and Russia.

India cannot dream of having naval bases or even relationships based on equality in/with Iran or other islamic countries. Not even one like the china is trying in pakistan. What India should be working towards is to not face ignominy of islamic countries insisting that India appoint a mohammedan as its ambassador to its country. No Islamic country will be disposed to be friendly towards India, be it shia or sunni or whatever. If it is otherwise, it will be anti-thesis of islamic imperialism.

Principally, India should actively be reshaping the nearby mohammedan country (aka pak) so the blow back from Syrian fallout stays within pak and not reach Indian shores.

How can India's energy needs be met. what are its hedges, so it can continue to have its energy needs met. Iran is out and will be like that for near future. Perhaps focus on reducing dependence on such tumultous regions to meet its needs, for starters.
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by JwalaMukhi »

On secondary note:
One should focus on what will be ideal world order that is beneficial to India.
How did past world order affect India?
How does the present world order is affecting India?
Will the change in world order better or worse for India? Should India be focusing on resisting changes to the world order based on mythical neutrality of UN.
Would India be better off in shaping the changes to the world order or adapting to the changes that most likely might happen, instead of trying to resist changes to the world order.
UN in present form is a joke, so far as India is concerned. Is India shouldering the burden of preserving this grossly inefficient and adverserial UN world order, so that the present beneficiaries continue to reap the benefits?
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by Philip »

Habal,there is no excuse being made out for US action.The greed factor provides the need for some other nation to bleed ,and as usual a fig-leaf is trotted out to play the game of regime change.Or if none is available,a false-flag operation and a massive propaganda barrage is exercised to fool the world.The fact that Syria is sitting on a fortune in oil,plus a pipeline from Iran to run through it is being planned,is a red rag to the "bull". There are worse despots than Assad.Mugabe for instance,who has repeatedly insulted the west and white man ad nauseum.But he isn't squatting upon an ocean of oil or gas.As the wit put it,if Syria had bananas as its main source of wealth,no one would bother.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/ho ... 03640.html

Syria civil war: RAF jets scrambled to investigate Syrian planes that had crossed into international airspace
Two Turkish F-16s are also believed to have been launched

RAF Typhoons are now stationed in Cyprus and though the Syrian aircraft were in international airspace-no offence,they flew back into Syrian airspace before an intercept could be made.
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by member_27444 »

But he isn't squatting upon an ocean of oil or gas.As the wit put it,if Syria had bananas as its main source of wealth,no one would bother.
Not as of now
If technology changes it might attract...

If indeed Zimbabwe is that bad why would Ian smith take so much eviction force?


The scrambling jets and the ones which crossed into intl space

A sign of fine tuning each sides tracking systems, probably Russians are used the event to calibrate systems
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by Austin »

Assad denies ordering chemical attack in Syria - CBS

"He denied that he had anything to do with the attack, notwithstanding what has been said and notwithstanding the videotape. He said there's not enough evidence to make a conclusive judgment" CBS veteran correspondent Charlie Rose said, speaking earlier after interviewing Assad in Syria.

"The most important thing, as he says, is that 'there's no evidence that I used chemical weapons against my own people'," Rose said.

Assad's rare interview with an American network is to be aired on CBS on Monday.

The United States has led the charge that Assad ordered a chemical attack against the residents of a Damascus suburb on August 21, which Washington says killed some 1,400 people including about 400 children. Graphic videos released on Saturday showed dozens of people, including children, writhing on the ground with convulsions, some apparently foaming at the mouth and vomiting as rescuers sought to help them.

But Assad challenged the US administration of President Barack Obama to provide the evidence as it seeks to build domestic and international support for military strikes against the Syrian regime for breaking international conventions with its alleged use of chemical weapons.

"He said that he did not necessarily know whether there was going to be a military strike. He said that they were obviously as prepared as they could be for a strike," Rose added, citing his interview with Assad.

The long-time Syrian leader also "had a message to the American people that it had not been a good experience for them to get involved in the Middle East in wars and conflicts," Rose said. "The results had not been good and they should not get involved and that they should communicate to their Congress and to their leadership in Washington not to authorize a strike."

Congress is due to begin full debate this week on whether to approve Obama's plans for limited military strikes on Syria aimed at degrading its chemical weapons ability when it returns from its summer break on Monday.But there is a deep skepticism among a war-weary American public over a new American military engagement in the Middle East.
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by member_27444 »

Did shyamD know that his predictions would miss by few inches and exited at the right time.
Even sir johann manages to come at right time to come and goes AWOL?
habal
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by habal »

some drama after all ..

http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/borowitzreport/

SEPTEMBER 6, 2013
G20 ENDS ABRUPTLY AS OBAMA CALLS PUTIN A JACKASS
POSTED BY ANDY BOROWITZ
ST. PETERSBURG (The Borowitz Report)—Hopes for a positive G20 summit crumbled today as President Obama blurted to Russia’s Vladimir Putin at a joint press appearance, “Everyone here thinks you’re a jackass.”

The press corps appeared stunned by the uncharacteristic outburst from Mr. Obama, who then unleashed a ten-minute tirade at the stone-faced Russian President.

Look, I’m not just talking about Snowden and Syria,” Mr. Obama said. “What about Pussy Riot? What about your anti-gay laws? Total jackass moves, my friend.”
Last edited by habal on 08 Sep 2013 21:55, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by member_27444 »

world views of those inclined to believe long-standing and widespread anti-American conspiracy theories in which America’s past wars were all triggered by nefariously plotted own-goal attacks, from the sinking of the battleship Maine to the Gulf of Tonkin and on to 9/11, in order to justify Yankee military action. Osama bin Laden was a C.I.A. agent, of course, as was Saddam Hussein—and that poor fool Morsi. The point behind all of these theories is to reaffirm an essential paranoia about America’s place in the world.
From New Yorker
All mentioned facts high lighted become theories
That is how American ingenuity in writing an article supposing to be neutral, slip in ....
Just like BBC
And of course our own Sir Johann. its an art i strongly would love him to teach me
That's why it's educational when Sir Johann speaks. to me its wisdom percolated in one post
Last edited by member_27444 on 08 Sep 2013 21:44, edited 2 times in total.
Austin
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by Austin »

An Article by Russian 2-star Army PVO general on Syrian AD and its potential vs NATO strike ( its in Russian use translator )

http://www.oborona.ru/includes/periodic ... tail.shtml
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by member_27444 »

Kak po ruskie?
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by Austin »

Strictly keeping to military aspect of Syrian crises , this US/NATO verus Russian stand off at sea ( not really stand off but deployment etc ) is also a battle of nerves , its a battle of nerves without a single shot getting fired.

I remembered during Taiwan crises even Chinese Navy chickened out when US CBG deployed along taiwan coast being their own backyard.

I think only Russia has the ability to stare into US eyes and play the battle of nerves without loosing cool , it also has to do with their long history of confrontation during cold war as well as the ability to size up with each other.

Even during Georgian crises when many in US politician declared we are all Georgians the USN refrained from even remotely challenging the Russian Navy or its freedom of operation.
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by Singha »

er habal thats a satire blog not the real news. http://guardianlv.com/2013/09/jackass-j ... ent-viral/
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by Singha »

Snowdens chances of getting russian citizenship as a man of extraordinary talent under EB1 er ER1 went up 300% due to Syria.
habal
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by habal »

some more non-serious stuff
After Putin vs Obama series
here comes
Beauty and The Beast: Asma al Assad vs Michelle Obama, OMG .. it's so true
http://tomatobubble.com/asma_al_assad.html
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by member_27444 »

Singha wrote:Snowdens chances of getting russian citizenship as a man of extraordinary talent under EB1 er ER1 went up 300% due to Syria.

As it is now apparent that Obama is not so easyly poised to win in congress
The natural fall out is coming to the fore

Now the well oiled and very eloquent Israeli media savy talking heads are coming out to say this is the moment US should do something about gassing people and how Assad is big bad wolf, imminent threat to US , world and the world wide fall out of US prestige and power.

I think instead of painting Ombaba as pussy footing , this Israeli lobby had to win African American congressmen to say the first African American Nobel peace prize winner and first president from African American roots has historic chance to restore peace in Middle East by bombing Syria. me is any used to bombing rockets etc and its the local language of all sides
habal
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by habal »

noted singha ji ..
Russian military goes on nuclear alert in response to U.S. threats to attack Syria


GroundReport | Author: Robert Tilford
Filed Under: Military, News | Posted: 09/08/2013 at 1:13PM
0 Comments | Region: Kentucky | United States
Russia warned Western powers on Monday against any military intervention in Syria, saying the use of force without a United Nations mandate would clearly “violate international law.”

All this as Russia begins a frantic effort to evacuate its citizens ahead of a U.S. military strike.

Meanwhile Russia has gone on a nuclear alert for the first time since the end of the Cold War in response to the decision by President Obama to launch a military strike against Syria.

A U.S. military strike on the part of the United States is not only reckless, according to Russian officials but a clear violation of international law, especially if done without a UN Security Council resolution authorizing force.

“Attempts to bypass the Security Council, to once again create artificial, unproven excuses for an armed intervention in the region are fraught with new suffering in Syria and catastrophic consequences for other countries in the Middle East and Northern Africa,” Foreign Ministry spokesman Alexander Lukashevich said in a statement posted on the ministry’s website Tuesday (source: Russian Ministry of Foreign Affairs http://www.mid.ru/brp_4.nsf/main_eng).

“Despite the warnings, the U.S. seems intent to attack Syria”, said one senior level Russian military commander, speaking on the condition of anonymity. “Whatever happens, said the commander “Russia will be prepared to defend itself and its interests abroad.”
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by anmol »

Report: Saudis sent death-row inmates to fight Syria
usatoday.com | Jan 21st 2013
Secret memo says more than 1,200 prisoners fought Assad regime to avoid beheading.

Saudi Arabia has sent death-row inmates from several nations to fight against the Syrian government in exchange for commuting their sentences, the Assyrian International News Agency reports.

Citing what it calls a "top secret memo" in April from the Ministry of Interior, AINA says the Saudi offered 1,239 inmates a pardon and a monthly stipend for their families, which were were allowed to stay in the Sunni Arab kingdom. Syrian President Bashar Assad is an Alawite, a minority Shiite sect.

According to an English translation of the memo, besides Saudis, the prisoners included Afghans, Egyptians, Iraqis, Jordanians, Kuwaitis, Pakistanis, Palestinians, Somalis, Sudanese, Syrians and Yemenis. All faced "execution by sword" for murder, rape or drug smuggling.

Russia, which has backed Assad, objected to the bargain and allegedly threatened to bring the issue to the United Nations, said an unidentified former Iraqi member of Parliament who confirmed the memo's authenticity, says AINA, an independent outlet.

"Initially Saudi Arabia denied the existence of this program. But the testimony of the released prisoners forced the Saudi government to admit, in private circles, its existence," AINA writes. "The Saudis agreed to stop their clandestine activities and work towards finding a political solution on condition that knowledge of this program would not be made public."

AINA also published the original Arabic memo.

The report mentions that most of the 23 Iraqi prisoners returned home, as did an unspecified number of Yemenis. But AINA does not indicate the fates of the remaining inmates or how many may have been killed, wounded or captured.

Assyrians, the builders of Mesopotamian civilizations, are a semitic people indigenous to northern Iraq. They are ethnically distinct from Arabs and Jews, and are generally Christians. Assyria dominated the Middle East in the first millennium BCE.
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by habal »

so both are deployed ..
US Deploys Nukes for War

By Gordon Duff and Press TV

“Solid evidence from within the intelligence community confirms that the US, Britain and France knew of the August 21 Sarin attacks in advance. More evidence, including intercepted emails, show that top Pentagon intelligence officials were actively involved in planning the attacks.”

Few are aware, but the United States and Russia are on “high nuclear alert” since the “missile training” incident in the Mediterranean.
With the imminent threat of nuclear war and a preliminary decision by the Senate Foreign Relations Committee to support, not just a missile campaign, but act directly in support of al-Qaeda forces inside Syria, a significant number of military leaders have lost all faith in their command structure.
Strangely, moves against pro-democratic forces in the military were actually made prior to what has been the most drastic turnaround in US policy since 9/11.
Solid evidence from within the intelligence community confirms that the US, Britain and France knew of the August 21 Sarin attacks in advance. More evidence, including intercepted emails, show that top Pentagon intelligence officials were actively involved in planning the attacks.

America hides its nuke arsenal

There is clear evidence that the US moved and restructured major nuclear commands predicting both the nuclear confrontation we see with Russia over Syria and a possible mutiny within US forces.
This was done before the Syrian gassing incident, evidence that a “retaliatory” missile attack on Syria was planned before there was anything to retaliate against.
We have seen two nuclear bomber wings relocated and put directly under White House command. Over 2000 nuclear weapons have been illegally moved, stored now in an old submarine base.
One wing of B2 bombers has actually “gone missing.” No one knows where they are. As Jim W. Dean so often says, “You just can’t make things like this up.”
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by Singha »

saudis have sent euros, americans, TSP now death row inmates to fight for them.
somewhere they have to start fighting for themselves rather than hire the help.
this is what happens when a monkey is appointed the king of a hill of gold.
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by habal »

Austin wrote:Strictly keeping to military aspect of Syrian crises , this US/NATO verus Russian stand off at sea ( not really stand off but deployment etc ) is also a battle of nerves , its a battle of nerves without a single shot getting fired.

I remembered during Taiwan crises even Chinese Navy chickened out when US CBG deployed along taiwan coast being their own backyard.

I think only Russia has the ability to stare into US eyes and play the battle of nerves without loosing cool , it also has to do with their long history of confrontation during cold war as well as the ability to size up with each other.

Even during Georgian crises when many in US politician declared we are all Georgians the USN refrained from even remotely challenging the Russian Navy or its freedom of operation.
It's like playing those test matches against Australia. Only India or an occasional England could hold their nerve.
& those who held their nerve usually won.
I think it's more to do with depth, experience and pedigree. And the cockiness that comes with it.

but Australians were good at building up the pressure and working it up until breaking point. Stalwarts like a Ganguly, but usually Dravid or Laxman used to whether the storm.
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by Singha »

US plans for 3 days of attacks on Syria—report
Agence France-Presse
5:24 pm | Sunday, September 8th, 2013
27 485 316

Rebel fighters prepare explosive devices to be used during fighting against Syrian government forces on September 7, 2013 in Syria’s eastern town of Deir Ezzor. The United States and France claimed growing international support for military strikes to punish the Syrian regime for an alleged chemical attack, after EU nations called for a “strong response”. AFP
WASHINGTON — The Pentagon is readying more intense and longer attacks on Syria than originally planned, set to last three days, the Los Angeles Times reported Sunday.
War planners now aim to unleash a heavy barrage of missile strikes to be followed swiftly by additional attacks on targets that may have been missed or remain standing after the initial launch, the Times cited officials as saying.
Two US officers told the newspaper that the White House has asked for an expanded target list to include “many more” than the initial list of around 50 targets.
The move is part of an effort to obtain additional firepower to damage Syrian President Bashar al-Assad’s dispersed forces.
Pentagon planners are now considering using Air Force bombers, as well as five US missile destroyers currently patrolling the eastern Mediterranean Sea, to launch cruise missiles and air-to-surface missiles from far out of range of Syrian air defenses, according to the report.
The USS Nimitz aircraft carrier strike group with one cruiser and three destroyers positioned in the Read Sea can also fire cruise missiles at Syria.
“There will be several volleys and an assessment after each volley, but all within 72 hours and a clear indication when we are done,” an officer familiar with the planning told the Times.
The intensified military planning comes as President Barack Obama prepares to personally make his case to the American people and further press reluctant lawmakers on the need for action after Assad allegedly used chemical weapons on his own people last month.
Obama is scheduled to tape interviews Monday with anchors of the three major broadcast networks, as well as with PBS, CNN and Fox News.
The interviews, to air that night, will precede Obama’s address to the nation Tuesday ahead of an expected full Senate vote.
The president favors a limited attack with only a reduced number of warplanes to drop bombs over Syria, according to the Times.
Amid doubts that a limited US offensive would sufficiently hamper Assad’s military capabilities, one officer told the newspaper that the planned operation would amount to a “show of force” over several days that would not fundamentally change the situation on the ground.
The planned US strike “will not strategically impact the current situation in the war, which the Syrians have well in hand, though fighting could go on for another two years,” another US officer said.


Read more: http://newsinfo.inquirer.net/483431/us- ... z2eK8qac6P
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by RamaY »

Singha wrote:saudis have sent euros, americans, TSP now death row inmates to fight for them.
somewhere they have to start fighting for themselves rather than hire the help.
this is what happens when a monkey is appointed the king of a hill of gold.
Singhaji... It will not last for long IMHO.
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by habal »

If a Nobel Peace Prize laureate makes the case for killing people to punish someone who killed people, then I know of thousands of candidates for next year's prize.

Wim Scholten

Culver City
http://www.latimes.com/opinion/letters/ ... 5353.story

The US military is pissed off at Obama, hopefuly they mutiny!

http://theeconomiccollapseblog.com/arch ... -in-syria/
http://jhaines6.wordpress.com/2013/09/0 ... o-retreat/
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by krishnan »

The ghastly video shows how barbaric the Syrian civil war can be.

A man, said to be a well-known rebel fighter, carves into the body of a government soldier and cuts out his heart and liver.

"I swear to God we will eat your hearts out, you soldiers of Bashar. You dogs. God is greater!" the man says. "Heroes of Baba Amr ... we will take out their hearts to eat them."

He then puts the heart in his mouth and takes a bite.
:shock:
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by nachiket »

Austin wrote:General Wesley Clark in this interview to CNN says , US needs Exclusion Zone for Freedom of Action and should tell the Russians to stay out of the way so that we dont accidentally hit them with Cruise Missile ......seems like a warning in a form of advise

http://globalpublicsquare.blogs.cnn.com ... out-syria/
Wesley Clark was the guy who nearly started WW3 in Kosovo by ordering NATO soldiers to "overpower" the Russians holding Pristina airport. Seems he hasn't learned anything since then.
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by member_27444 »

Now would be the use NAM
Not vietNAM

India should start Like minded countries to start some dialogue
Or take this chance to beat the crap out of syeds hiding in TSP
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by Vayutuvan »

nachiket wrote:Wesley Clark was the guy who nearly started WW3 in Kosovo by ordering NATO soldiers to "overpower" the Russians holding Pristina airport.
nachiket ji, but he's "shaken not stirred" kind of a guy. Might be "the most powerful man" someday (hope to never to see that day, off course). ;)
Theo_Fidel

Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by Theo_Fidel »

There is no way USA is going into Syria. The people are deadly opposed to it.

Whay arn't all the big talking and free spending GCC countries doing this. Per a wiki count KSA alone has 200 F-15's that should be enough to finish off Assad. For once let them do the dirty work....
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by Singha »

Shiny hw to recycle dollars back to west without the people and drills count for zero.
Theo_Fidel

Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by Theo_Fidel »

Well their casualty rate might be higher. Say 20 planes lost vs 1-2 for USA but they have the numbers to over come this. Whats all that bloviating over brave Jee-Hard rage boy chants all about then. Time to step up and show them how Jee-Hard-on you are. And how you can take casualties to achieve your ends. It has a solid 30 million folks, time to sacrifice a few I say.

Again zero chance of USA doing this....
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by member_27444 »

Ombaba has locked himself into a pizza box that too for a large he picked personal pan size box.

David Axlerod locked the steering for Ombaba going at full speed when David Said the republican have bitten the moving car hence have to along with POTUS. This made republicans smarting and now they want a full fledged war nothing less. That is best way to push Democratic POTUS into a war wager peace prize winner, when economy is anemic. In the next election cycle they will exploit this and Libyan fiasco to the max. Who cares if marines die is the attitude in DC

So he will launch token tomahawk missiles into tripoli like Kilton sahib in Sudan destroying
pharmaceutical lab and call it chemical weapons destroyed!

But my sources say that John McCain has been told that marines will go in and so will the rangers and seals

It's going to be finish to the end no matter what. He has election promises to keep for Israel. Remember he went after Romney!
He asked Bibi to hold back Iran ops till elections were over, and to hold back he was asked to pay interest for the time he bought.

Surprising I have not seen Hillary the next president making any observations at all! Did I miss Clinton?
devesh
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by devesh »

the warnings of Robert Gates haven't been forgotten. he did bring in some systemic changes into DoD, even if they're not so visible yet.

“Any future defense secretary who advises the president to again send a big American land army into Asia or into the Middle East or Africa should 'have his head examined,' as General [Douglas] MacArthur so delicately put it.”

that's what he said. it's not ancient history. my gut feeling is there is a lot more circumspection in DoD now, than even a few years ago.
in the end, they'll follow orders. but they'll make the risks and dangers damn clear to the White House. and Obama is not likely to ignore them lightly.

he still has 3 years to go. if Syria blows up after his intervention, then there will be plenty of time for the blame to fall on his shoulders.
Singha
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by Singha »

repubs are probably laying a trap for him to walk into.
there are ofcourse true believers like mccain who strongly believe any war is a war that US should fight.
Baikul
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by Baikul »

Rudradev wrote:
Singha wrote:
US love it or hate it , did risk its blood and treasure to capture Iraq and Afghanistan. nobody counts as a gorilla unless they do this when their vital interests are at stake. even today , whatever be the media soundbytes I am sure atleast 3 marine MEUs are being kept on high readiness should a force landing be decided on, along with army units on the jordan and turkey front. sure it might take 2 months to move everything into place.....but they wont hesitate to pull the trigger if it comes to that. thats a gorilla behaviour.
I'm not sure about that... gorilla behaviour is a self-made myth that suits Unkil well, but not much more. The Iraq and Afgh interventions were both carried out by Neocons, and that too only under the cover of the public trauma following 9-11 (when GWB would have got voter support for virtually anything.) Other than that, the spectre of Vietnam still haunts the memories of the very large baby-boomer voting population in the US.

The Clinton-Wilsonians are a different breed from the Neocons. Democrats have never, EVER, after LBJ had the guts to put troops on the ground anywhere (with the sole exception of Clinton's mostly humanitarian Haiti intervention, very close to their own backyard.) Kosovo was an air war. Libya was an air war..
Rudradevji, a few nitpicks.

Carter largely lost his presidency over his disastrous decision to insert US strike troops into Iran. In 1993 Clinton's decisions led to the battle of Mogadishu, in which US troops were committed on the ground.
member_27444
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by member_27444 »

devesh wrote:the warnings of Robert Gates haven't been forgotten. he did bring in some systemic changes into DoD, even if they're not so visible yet.
.............
..............
he still has 3 years to go. if Syria blows up after his intervention, then there will be plenty of time for the blame to fall on his shoulders.
Patriotism is last refuge to a scoundrel
Some how the WH staff will make it like wag the dog story and Americans are very patriotic they will forget

Stanley Motss: The President will be a hero. He brought peace.
Conrad 'Connie' Brean: But there was never a war.
Stanley Motss: All the greater accomplishment
.


This was the rationale of Nobel committee in the first place for peace prize
Winifred Ames: Why Albania?
Conrad 'Connie' Brean: Why not?
Winifred Ames: What have they done to us?
Conrad 'Connie' Brean: What have they done FOR us? What do you know about them?
Winifred Ames: Nothing.
Conrad 'Connie' Brean: See? They keep to themselves. Shifty. Untrustable.
This is why Syria was marked about 8 years ago but was not declared axis of evil but Iran and Syria are linked no?
rajanb
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by rajanb »

Kill but don’t gas

Manas Chakravarty September 08, 2013

http://www.hindustantimes.com/editorial ... 19088.aspx

:rotfl:
habal
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by habal »

american presidents have now been reduced to contract-killers looking for their next supari, if he can't execute the supari, he is irrelevant.

Depravity redefined: Selling US slaughter in Syria
http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2013/09/08 ... -in-syria/
The corporate interests driving the United States, its resources, and policy, have invoked dead children in the latest and grisliest propaganda campaign yet, directed at the American public to build support for an otherwise unjustified and universally unwanted war with Syria.


The headline of CNN's "First on CNN: Videos show glimpse into evidence for Syria intervention," suggests that by watching the grotesque videos, some sort of evidence exists to justify an assault on Syria. Instead, the videos only show yet again, the crime, and only the crime - a crime which no one, including the Syrian government, denies occurred. What is missing, as has been the case since the US leveled accusations against the Syrian government on August 21, 2013, is any evidence at all as to who actually committed this crime.

Even upon reading the US' own assessments of the incident reveal there is no evidence. The best the US can say is [emphasis added]:

The United States Government assesses with high confidence that the Syrian government carried out a chemical weapons attack in the Damascus suburbs on August 21, 2013.

Assessing with "high confidence" is not enough to execute a single criminal within the US justice system, yet somehow is enough to justify a military assault on a sovereign nation on the other side of the planet, which poses no threat to the United States, and will inevitably lead to the death of Syrian soldiers and civilians, while assisting sectarian extremists, many of whom openly pledge allegiance to Al Qaeda. At face value, the US has no case against Syria, and no credibility after habitually using equally tenuous evidence as justification for military assaults against Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, and beyond.

That CNN is using dead children as "evidence" indicates that the dubious media outlet is attempting to manipulate the American public on the most visceral emotional level possible to sell a war the corporate interests CNN represents desires.

CNN and other Western outlets, have been caught overtly fabricating stories throughout the subversion of Syria, starting in 2011 when they disingenuously portrayed the flooding of Syria with armed extremists as the "Arab Spring," up to and including featured interviews with "Syria Danny," who was later revealed to be staging gun fire in the background of theatrical (and fabricated) casualty reports given to CNN's Anderson Cooper. :rotfl:

Exploiting dead children to manipulate the public emotionally enables the US to circumvent not only its absolute lack of evidence, but hopefully the myriad of logical conclusions an otherwise rational, intelligent person might draw.


Regarding US Claims

US Claim #1: The Syrian "Regime" Used Chemical Weapons in a Desperate Bid to Save Damascus.

Reality: The US claims in its assessment that the Syrian government used chemical weapons in a desperate struggle for Damascus:

The Syrian regime has initiated an effort to rid the Damascus suburbs of opposition forces using the area as a base to stage attacks against regime targets in the capital. The regime has failed to clear dozens of Damascus neighborhoods of opposition elements, including neighborhoods targeted on August 21, despite employing nearly all of its conventional weapons systems. We assess that the regime’s frustration with its inability to secure large portions of Damascus may have contributed to its decision to use chemical weapons on August 21.

Yet it appears that mostly women and children were the victims of the attack - apparently killed in the middle of the night while they slept.

The US and its collaborators expect the world to believe: that the Syrian government risked using chemical weapons in Damascus, under the nose of UN inspectors, to clear out stalwart "opposition" fighters, and only managed to mass murder women and children in the process while giving the West a long-desired justification for military intervention. And despite "employing nearly all of its conventional weapons systems" and allegedly also sarin nerve gas, the Ghouta area was still under terrorist control after the attack.

It should be noted that Ghouta is on the very edge of Damascus, facing open country that stretches to the Al Qaeda infested Syrian-Iraqi border and the extremist hotbed of Al Anbar province in Iraq - implicating another, and the most likely culprit, Al Qaeda.

US Claim #2: The "Opposition" Lacks the Capabilities to Carry Out Such an Attack.

Reality: The US, in its assessment states:
We assess that the scenario in which the opposition executed the attack on August 21 is highly unlikely. The body of information used to make this assessment includes intelligence pertaining to the regime’s preparations for this attack and its means of delivery, multiple streams of intelligence about the attack itself and its effect, our post-attack observations, and the differences between the capabilities of the regime and the opposition.

The "opposition" in Syria is Al Qaeda. Al Qaeda allegedly carried out the terrorist attacks on September 11, 2001, destroying three (including Building 7) World Trade Center towers in New York City and striking at the very heart of America's trillion dollar military might, the Pentagon itself - killing in a single day nearly 3,000 using nothing more than box-cutters, pepper spray, and 4 commandeered aircraft.

The US State Department since the very beginning of the violence has acknowledged that the most prominent fighting group operating inside Syria is Al Qaeda, more specifically, the al Nusra front. The US State Department's official press statement titled, "Terrorist Designations of the al-Nusrah Front as an Alias for al-Qa'ida in Iraq," states explicitly that:

Since November 2011, al-Nusrah Front has claimed nearly 600 attacks – ranging from more than 40 suicide attacks to small arms and improvised explosive device operations – in major city centers including Damascus, Aleppo, Hamah, Dara, Homs, Idlib, and Dayr al-Zawr. During these attacks numerous innocent Syrians have been killed.

It is also confirmed that many fighters joining al Nusra come from abroad, including from the recently decimated Libya, where a significant arsenal of chemical weapons have fallen into the hands of a sectarian extremist government which is openly funding and arming terrorists in Syria.

The US and its collaborators expect the world to believe: that despite Al Qaeda having struck at the very heart of US military might, after circumventing a trillion dollar defense system of unprecedented capabilities, it is now somehow incapable of obtaining and using against civilians, chemical weapons - a scenario the US has warned the world of and in fact, used as justification for invading Iraq in 2003. Either we've been lied to about the official explanation regarding 9/11, or we've been lied to about the capabilities of Al Qaeda in Syria - or more likely, both.

Conclusion

Clearly, at face value, none of what the US proposes regarding the alleged chemical attacks in Syria is rational. The propaganda rolled out against Syria is poorly retreaded lies from the illegal, abhorrent Iraq invasion and occupation and the more recent NATO atrocities committed against the Libyan people who are still suffering from NATO's "humanitarian intervention" there.

What does it mean when the combined, multi-trillion dollar defense and intelligence resources of the United States, United Kingdom, European Union, Turkey, Israel, Saudi Arabia, Qatar, and others are categorically incapable of providing a single shred of credible evidence to make their case? That evidence does not exist? Or that it does, but simply points the finger unfavorably in another direction?

Without actual evidence of who committed the crimes showcased on CNN, the first and most important question that must be answered is "cui bono?" - or - to whose benefit? Clearly, the chemical attacks carried out under the nose of UN inspectors, leaving shocking images of dead women and children used to manipulate the public on an emotional level, benefits the special interests driving US, British, European, and Arab policy. These are the same interests who in 2007 openly conspired to initiate a sectarian bloodbath to drown Lebanon, Syria, and Iran - a documented conspiracy being realized in full, beginning in 2011.

The danger of a Syrian government surviving the insidious machinations of Western special interests and restoring order in a unified Syria is an unacceptable outcome for Washington, London, Paris, Riyadh, and Tel Aviv. The unprecedented impetus behind this unpopular, universally opposed war with Syria reeks of desperation and a corporate-financier axis that has used and abused all of its tricks one too many times.

Whatever the outcome in Syria may be, these corporate-financier interests have exposed themselves and have long-since resigned their legitimacy. All that they do now, they do in the open, against the will of the world, amidst growing dissent, and against the background of a socio-technological paradigm shift undermining their institutions and international rackets permanently. However vigorously these interests appear to be digging their grave, it is still, ultimately a grave.
habal
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by habal »

Putin was a KGB officer during Afghan conflict of 70s-80s. He is well aware of how US exhausted Soviet Union through proxy fighters. Publicly Putin compares Syria to 2003 Iraq conflict, but privately he might well be thinking of 1980s Afghanistan. By refusing to send boots to ground providing Syria with sophisticated weapons instead, he is adopting the American strategy of the 1980s. Will Obomber bite the bait by launching cruise missiles towards Syria ?


http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_Eas ... 90913.html
Putin eyes Syrian abyss for the US
By Ahmed E Souaiaia

Speaking Freely is an Asia Times Online feature that allows guest writers to have their say. Please click here if you are interested in contributing.

Talking to reporters after the conclusion of the G-20 meeting, the president of Russia, Vladimir Putin, declared that any military intervention in Syria without United Nations Security Council authorization is an illegal act of aggression. He also said that his country will supply (sell, that is) the Syrian government with weapons to defend itself.

This statement, in a sense, clarifies an earlier declaration by his foreign minister, Sergei Lavrov, when he said that if the United



States starts a war in Syria, Russia will not be part of it. Some analysts thought that Lavrov's statement signaled Russia's readiness to abandon Assad. The increased number of Russia warships near Syria and Putin's statement reveal a different strategy.

When the US provided weapons and training to the 1970-1980s Afghan rebels who exhausted the Soviet Union to the point of collapse, Putin was a KGB officer. Now a president, he is well aware of how the US exhausted the Soviet Union using proxy fighters and without committing American troops to the decade and a half long war in Afghanistan.

The Soviet Union on the other hand, bled money and troops in a war of attrition. Putin, publicly, likes to compare the possible war on Syria to the 2003 invasion of Iraq. Privately, however, he might be thinking of the 1980s conflict in Afghanistan.

By refusing to send troops to support the Syrian government and providing it with sophisticated weapons instead, he is adopting the American strategy of the 1980s. He might be hoping that the US will be dragged into a protracted war of attrition similar to the one that, in addition to other factors, caused the collapse of the Soviet Union.

The similarities are striking. In the 1980s, the US worked with its ally, Saudi Arabia, to sharpen the propaganda campaign against the regime in Afghanistan and its backer, the Soviet Union. Consequently, tens of thousands of religious Wahhabis (using former secretary of state Hillary Clinton's words) from the Arab world gathered in military training camps in Pakistan to begin their holy war against the secular Afghan regime and its Soviet backers. The outcome is well known.

Today, again, with US consent, Saudi Arabia and Qatar have launched a propaganda war painting Assad as a brutal dictator and an agent of Russia and Iran. They have facilitated the transfer of religious zealots from Tunisia, Libya, Jordan, the Gulf States, and even Europe to Turkey where they have received training and weapons. They have then been helped to sneak into Syria.

Today, it is estimated that 10,000 foreigners fighting on the side of the Free Syrian Army in Syria for a single purpose: overthrowing the Syrian government. But what would happen after the fall of the government is anyone's guess because each group of rebels has a different agenda.

The engineers of this civil war reckoned that Assad would fall in months, if not weeks. Three years later, it appears that Assad is actually reversing the rebels' earlier gains. Saudi Arabia decided to pressure its ally, the US to do more to hasten the fall of the Syrian regime. Hence Obama's decision to launch military strikes to degrade Assad's military capabilities.

Obama faces strong resistance at home and abroad. While attending the meeting of the G-20, he hoped that he could drum some support and build a coalition. Only Canada, France, Saudi Arabia, and Turkey supported a military strike with or without UNSC consent. He returns to Washington to build support at home for his war of choice despite a low 20% public support - a 20% of Americans unlikely to be from among the people who actually voted for him.

Putin does not need to prevent the attack and he does not seem interested in doing so. He seems interested in providing the Syrian government with the means to absorb the first strikes and react in a protracted way, forcing the US administration and its allies to do more over a long time, just like what happened in Afghanistan in the 1980s.

In other words, Putin is equally happy with or without a war that would cost his country nothing (Assad is paying for the weapons). As this deadly game between giants unfold, more Syrians will be killed, more civilians will be forced out of their homes, and more physical damage will be inflicted on an already devastated country, transforming Syria into another failed state due to acts of others. {Someone mentioned that Indians were being emotional and not indulging in 'realpolitik' in Syria. I think this is the cost of 'realpolitik', you need to play with people's lives at the end of it, and a lot of lives, whatever is said. Ultimately when elephants trample, the grass underfoot will be crushed, Syria will be another Afghanistan, inhospitable and indomitable at the cost of barrenness, but symbolically it will have taken down the gorilla just as Afghanistan took the bear down with it.}

The US, too, will bleed money and credibility because of another purposeless war. The way out for President Obama is to realize that he is being goaded into war by Saudi Arabia and an imaginary red line, to resist the sense of grandeur and hubris that comes with the privilege of commanding the most powerful army in the world today, and to launch a new diplomatic strategy initiative that will transform the Middle East and end the war in Syria by forcing all parties to reach a political settlement.

The proposed Geneva-2 peace conference remains the only path on which all (responsible) regional and global powers agree, though it may not be an option if Obama attacks the Syrian government.
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