Afghanistan News & Discussion

Sanjay M · Post by **Sanjay M** » 11 Oct 2009 00:26

vee prohtest de blahblah:

nithish · Post by **nithish** » 11 Oct 2009 04:15

Seems OT but could this be their 'excuse' they may parrot for the embassy bombing...

India supporting Baloch insurgents: Frontier Corps Jernail

India and Afghanistan are supporting an insurgency in Balochistan, trying to bolster the leadership of separatists fighting the government, chief of the Frontier Corps (FC) paramilitary force in Balochistan said on Saturday.
“A lot of evidence of Indian involvement through Afghanistan is there, supporting the separatist movement,” Major General Salim Nawaz, inspector general of the FC in Balochistan, said.

Proof: The FC chief said proof of Indian involvement had been provided. “The proof has been given at various levels ... Photographs have been provided,” he said, but did not elaborate.

The good jernail then goes on to question the presence of the Quetta shura:

General Nawaz also denied US accusations that Taliban leadership was based in and around Quetta, saying Washington was looking for an excuse for the difficulty it was facing with an intensifying Taliban insurgency.
The United States had handed over no information to back up its assertion regarding the “Quetta shura”, he said. “If they have any evidence – which they have not given us a bit of until this moment – they should share it with us. Pakistani forces are quite capable of sorting them out,” he said.

General Nawaz said it was impossible for Taliban leaders such as Mullah Omar to go unnoticed.

“If he has to move, or if their leadership has to move, they have to move with some paraphernalia, they need to make some arrangements,” so, if the shura doesn't exist, how does he know all this? he said. reuters

Sanjay M · Post by **Sanjay M** » 11 Oct 2009 05:33

Anybody seen this one?

http://thelede.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/1 ... ghanistan/

Why the hell would the US maintain a base in such an area?

Pranav · Post by **Pranav** » 11 Oct 2009 11:20

Afghan MP: US is not seriously fighting insurgents
http://www.presstv.ir/detail.aspx?id=10 ... id=3510302
Sat, 10 Oct 2009 09:00:23 GMT

US Marines patrol through a field of marijuana, Farah Province, southern Afghanistan, Oct. 9

The following is an abridged transcript of an interview with Afghan parliamentarian Mohammad Asim.

Q. Why do you think the United States has not managed to destroy the Taliban and al-Qaeda footholds in Afghanistan even after occupying the country for more than eight years?

A. Undoubtedly, the invading powers promised to bring full security to Afghanistan and root out terrorism or in other words al-Qaeda and the Taliban…

But unfortunately after eight years we can see that they are moving further and further away from the goals they had defined in their initial rhetoric.
…

The situation has deteriorated in such a way that the invading troops have been forced to retreat, while the Taliban has gained more power.

Q. Do you think that Western powers keep the Afghan government weak to make it dependent on them?

A. Considering the history of colonialist powers in the world, naturally one of their goals is to prevent third world countries from gaining independence. The West does not want a strong government in place for Afghanistan…

Q. Do you think that the occupying forces are not strong enough to take out the Taliban or they are just faking it. If they really are that weak then where is a group like the Taliban getting the financial support and weaponry to challenge several NATO members?

A. Those states that initially backed the group are still supporting the Taliban today…

There have been countless accounts of foreign troops evading any serious confrontation with the Taliban. For example, they never wage a ground operation against the group.

They try to avoid ground battles and only stick to air raids, which evidently result in mostly civilian deaths…

Q. Some sources claim that 70 percent of Afghanistan's population supports the Taliban. Can you confirm this claim? Do the Afghan people help the militants because they are discontent with the current state?

A. I believe that the figure is closer to 10 percent, and only in some regions. The people still have bad memories of the years of Taliban rule.

The majority of the people feel no inclination toward the Taliban and do not see them as a suitable replacement for the government, despite being dissatisfied with the government and foreign forces.

Q. What is your take on the conditions the US has set for Pakistan in exchange for a 7.5 billion dollar aid package, such as arresting Mullah Omar and other Taliban leaders who are believed to be hiding out in the country?

A.This is crystal clear. Americans, Afghans and Pakistanis know that some civilian and military circles in Pakistan and some other Arab states have been supporting Taliban both politically and financially. US officials have made no reaction to Pakistan's intrusive policies. They only make some objections every once in a while but then repeatedly express their support for Pakistan's policies and actions.
…
Despite the support Pakistan gives the Taliban, the US is still backing Islamabad without any change of policy.

MJ/DT

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 11 Oct 2009 11:24

robert fisk in the independent puts in a word for pakistan:

No way are they going to win. The neocons say that "the graveyard of empire" is a cliché. It is. But it's also true. The Afghan government is totally corrupted; its paid warlords – paid by Karzai and the Americans – ramp up the drugs trade and the fear of Afghan civilians. But it's much bigger than this.

The Indian embassy was bombed again last week. Has Mr Obama any idea why? Does he realise that Washington's decision to support India against Pakistan over Kashmir – symbolised by his appointment of Richard Holbrooke as envoy to Afghanistan and Pakistan but with no remit to discuss divided Kashmir – enraged Pakistan. He may want India to balance the power of China (some hope!) but Pakistan's military intelligence realises that the only way of persuading Mr Obama to act fairly over Kashmir – recognising Pakistan's claims as well as India's – is to increase their support for the Taliban. No justice in Kashmir, no security for US troops – or the Indian embassy – in Afghanistan.

Pranav · Post by **Pranav** » 11 Oct 2009 11:55

Afghans Trained by Blackwater Defect to Taliban: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jamal-daj ... 34919.html

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 11 Oct 2009 12:04

Pranav wrote:Afghan MP: US is not seriously fighting insurgents
http://www.presstv.ir/detail.aspx?id=10 ... id=3510302
Sat, 10 Oct 2009 09:00:23 GMT

A.This is crystal clear. Americans, Afghans and Pakistanis know that some civilian and military circles in Pakistan and some other Arab states have been supporting Taliban both politically and financially. US officials have made no reaction to Pakistan's intrusive policies. They only make some objections every once in a while but then repeatedly express their support for Pakistan's policies and actions.
…
Despite the support Pakistan gives the Taliban, the US is still backing Islamabad without any change of policy.

This is what the so called 'free press', the govt mouthpiece media in the US should be asking.

Pranav · Post by **Pranav** » 11 Oct 2009 19:44

Singha wrote:robert fisk in the independent puts in a word for pakistan:

No way are they going to win. The neocons say that "the graveyard of empire" is a cliché. It is. But it's also true. The Afghan government is totally corrupted; its paid warlords – paid by Karzai and the Americans – ramp up the drugs trade and the fear of Afghan civilians. But it's much bigger than this.

The Indian embassy was bombed again last week. Has Mr Obama any idea why? Does he realise that Washington's decision to support India against Pakistan over Kashmir – symbolised by his appointment of Richard Holbrooke as envoy to Afghanistan and Pakistan but with no remit to discuss divided Kashmir – enraged Pakistan. He may want India to balance the power of China (some hope!) but Pakistan's military intelligence realises that the only way of persuading Mr Obama to act fairly over Kashmir – recognising Pakistan's claims as well as India's – is to increase their support for the Taliban. No justice in Kashmir, no security for US troops – or the Indian embassy – in Afghanistan.

Fisk is full of bovine excrement. Holbrooke's assignment does not include Kashmir - but how does that amount to support for either one side or the other. And why should Afghans be made to suffer for Pakistan's discontent over Kashmir.

chanakyaa · Post by **chanakyaa** » 12 Oct 2009 07:39

Sanjay M wrote:Anybody seen this one?

http://thelede.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/1 ... ghanistan/

Why the hell would the US maintain a base in such an area?

Million dollar question. May be their commitment will lead to some understanding after seeing what happens to the request for additional 40,000 troops. If this question was asked while previous administration was still in charge, following possibilities existed,
1. Control, by taming Afg, natural gas pipelines from central Asia, Turkmenistan, Azerbaijan, Iran to South East Asia. Remember company named Enron which supported this idea
2. Have a permanent base in central Asia and open possibility of moving bases in other nations such as Saudi Arabia where pro-west rulers are growing old and younger generation is hostile to yankee bases in their country
3. Also possible that yankees had no idea why they went their in the first place.

Sanjay M · Post by **Sanjay M** » 12 Oct 2009 07:51

They tried that before, and yet for all their trouble, the result was 9/11.

I think all the blather about not allowing Afghanistan to fall to Taliban again is just political posturing born of overconfidence.

Like I said before, I'm wondering what would have happened to JFK's career had he lived to face the tough decisions of the Vietnam War. He might not have gotten such a pacifist legacy.

Furthermore, other big events in JFK's career were the botched Bay of Pigs Invasion and the Cuban Missile Crisis, where his performance badly alienated his military. (I've always wondered if that wasn't the real reason he was assassinated.)

I'm wondering what Obama's comparable moments will be?
I'm thinking he will screw up on both Afghanistan and Iran, permanently tarnishing his legacy.

sanjaykumar · Post by **sanjaykumar** » 12 Oct 2009 08:45

Waza matter Mr Fiske ,'graveyard of empire' memories coming back?-not to worry, it wasn't Afghanistan's fierce tribals that did you in. It was a toothless old man.

sum · Post by **sum** » 12 Oct 2009 08:57

Unusual silence from GoI side on the Kabul bombing...The usual dialogues of "no more tolerance" also have not been peddled ( to show how "strong" the GoI is)...

Wonder if some earth-e-shatter stuff.planning is going on behind closed doors in the PMO/MEA/Cabinet secretariat or is it just the jingo in me which is hoping for non-existent things?

Aditya G · Post by **Aditya G** » 12 Oct 2009 13:39

"An attack on the Indian Embassy is an attack on India. It is no less than attacking the Parliament"

Oh, but given that we issued only a 1000 threats when the Parliament was attacked what more should we expect when Pak Army attacked our embassy twice already?

The bigger development in Afghanistan is a probable pullout of US and NATO armies ... likely within 1-3 years. Do we have a plan?

When the Maoists were planning to lay a seige on Kathmandu a few years back during Mr. Natwar Singh's tenure as FM, there was a comment that IAF had planned for an aerial bridge to Kathmandu. Now situatio replays on much bigger scale and N times complexity in Kabul.

Expect the countryside to Afghan fall spontaneusly into Taliban err, Pakistani hands as local ANA commanders and warlords will switch loyalties. Only Kabul and perhaps bastions in the North will remain with Karzai and allies. How will we support them? Does GoI have the spine to openly support the fightback against Pakistan in Afghanistan with USA and NATO prescence on ground? Can we land 50 Para (I) in Kabul and secure it?

sum wrote:Unusual silence from GoI side on the Kabul bombing...The usual dialogues of "no more tolerance" also have not been peddled ( to show how "strong" the GoI is)...

Wonder if some earth-e-shatter stuff.planning is going on behind closed doors in the PMO/MEA/Cabinet secretariat or is it just the jingo in me which is hoping for non-existent things?

Neshant · Post by **Neshant** » 12 Oct 2009 14:32

Unusual silence from GoI side on the Kabul bombing

How do you know India is not doing stuff behind the scenes in Afghanistan.

You can be sure there are preparations being made for the day US withdraws like the Soviets. Its only a matter of time and how operation 'cut & run' is packaged.

ashish raval · Post by **ashish raval** » 12 Oct 2009 15:21

^^ India should come up with plan to blow the roof of Paki Embassy in Afghanistan, Sri-Lanka, Nepal, Bangladesh and probably in Saudi Barberia and that too simultaneously. This will signal ISI to keep out of Afghanistan. An eye for an eye and if it is not like that then a super power power in making should hide behind the bush and pray to God to save us from Lions of the Jungle. As long as India produces coward and buddhe khusad politicians there is nothing that we India can accomplish in terms of power projection. No place in the world elects politicians above 65 except India. Funny though, it tells something about social behaviour of majority.

sum · Post by **sum** » 12 Oct 2009 15:28

How do you know India is not doing stuff behind the scenes in Afghanistan.

Thats what i meant when i said unusual silence from GoI side....Usually, its the empty vessels which make noise but GoI has not uttered a single word about the bombing which could mean some silent stuff is happening in the background or the GoI is clueless as to the next step (as many in BR believe)..

ashish raval · Post by **ashish raval** » 12 Oct 2009 15:34

^^ Sum, I believe in later argument. India has a history of being clueless and forgetting the past quickly and carry on. Henceforth, it is safe to assume that GoI will do nothing or so I say we dont have apparatus, will and power to do anything anywhere.

shyamd · Post by **shyamd** » 12 Oct 2009 16:20

Pak sends a message via Kabul bomber Attacks, outside and inside

The second suicide attack on the Indian mission in Kabul in 15 months will strengthen a partisan view at the CGO Complex off New Delhi’s Lodhi Road, the seat of India’s external intelligence agency, that the terrorist attack on Mumbai last November was actually Pakistan’s answer to India for regressing on the progress made over several years towards resolving Kashmir in detailed talks with General Pervez Musharraf, both by the NDA and UPA governments.

Such a view is based on an assessment that Pakistan considerably dismantled its terrorist infrastructure against India, particularly across the Line of Control in Kashmir, during the Musharraf years, but has not been rewarded in any significant way by the political process in New Delhi aimed at redressing Islamabad’s perceived grievances on bilateral relations.

Between November last year and now, the establishment at the Research and Analysis Wing (RAW) and elements in the Prime Minister’s Office and the cabinet secretariat with intelligence backgrounds have strenuously tried to put the lid on this view, which has serious ramifications for New Delhi’s Pakistan policy.

Today’s attack in Kabul will, however, reinforce this view, albeit in whispers in intelligence circles. Because it has come 10 days after Krishna took a tough line at his meeting with Qureshi, the suicide bombing will be seen as a warning to India not to go back, once again, on the process started by Prime Minister Manmohan Singh and his Pakistani counterpart in Sharm-el-Sheikh in July to restart their bilateral dialogue.

Pakistan clearly sees Krishna’s stand at his meeting with Qureshi as tantamount to rolling back the Sharm-el-Sheikh process.

When Qureshi emerged with Clinton yesterday to speak to reporters, he was almost fatalistic about India and had low expectations. “The meeting that I had with Mr Krishna... was, in my view, a positive meeting, a constructive meeting. And being a politician, I can read between the lines and I can tell you I got positive vibes, because my message was positive, my engagement was positive, my intentions are positive.... Obviously, he is going to go back and consult with the leadership in Delhi and we will take it from there. But I have suggested a way forward.”

The attack in Kabul, which has all the hallmarks of an ISI-inspired plot, is also a warning to Pakistan’s civilian leadership not to compromise its interests in Afghanistan and in bilateral relations with India amid signs of a deterioration in cordiality between the Pakistan army and the government of President Asif Ali Zardari.

The attack was executed a day after foreign secretary Nirupama Rao made a policy speech on Afghanistan at a meeting in New Delhi outlining India’s priorities in Kabul.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 12 Oct 2009 17:56

Where is our Pujya Foreign Minister ? We haven't heard anything from him about Kabul and in fact, he was last heard at the UNGA. No word from him after that. At least Shashi Tharoor twitters.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 12 Oct 2009 18:02

sum wrote: . . . but GoI has not uttered a single word about the bombing which could mean some silent stuff is happening in the background. . .

sum, past inaction doesn't inspire any confidence, does it ? A charitable remark I heard was that having given up on Pakistan mending its ways, GoI thinks that no interest will be served by saying anything.

svenkat · Post by **svenkat** » 12 Oct 2009 18:42

SSridhar wrote:Where is our Pujya Foreign Minister ?

Poojya(as in Tamil) is more appropriate,sridhar saar.

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 12 Oct 2009 18:51

Some glib policies being discussed on US's TV channels today.

On Fox, there was Brizenski, Ignathius etc saying that Pakistan is an ally, and the way forward is to accept pakistan's concerns wrt afghanistan and to give pakistan concessions on afghanistan {we all know what that means} so that pakistan reigns in the taliban. Big B added to this by saying that the US needs to indulge in comprehensive nation building in afghanistan. Not one peep about India's role there except that they want to address pakistan's concerns.

On CNN, some economist guy comparing the amount the taliban fighter makes. The argument goes as follows.
The taliban fighter makes $10 a day. There are 15,000 fighters.
75% are economic fighters, in it for the money, because there is just no economy in Afghanistan.
20% are economic fighters who constitute the swing group. {Don't the umreekans love the swing voters

} They could go either way with their allegiance.
5% are the hard core islamists, who will not be swayed by money or lucre.

Now the argument is that it costs $1.5 million a day to keep the US forces there. If the US pays the talibs @ $20 a day to not target the umreekans, it is still $300,000 a day - far cheaper than keeping the US forces there. So there is an argument that the talibs should be brought off terror and paid to do nation building instead.

ashish raval · Post by **ashish raval** » 12 Oct 2009 20:54

^^, So we can assume that Afghanistan remains graveyard of Empires firstly British then Russian and now Americans. It has lived upto its expectations and it is also valid to assume that US doctrine of non-negotiation with terrorists is worth a pi** and laugh. World police is dead then.

surinder · Post by **surinder** » 12 Oct 2009 21:08

Gagan wrote:Now the argument is that it costs $1.5 million a day to keep the US forces there. If the US pays the talibs @ $20 a day to not target the umreekans, it is still $300,000 a day - far cheaper than keeping the US forces there. So there is an argument that the talibs should be brought off terror and paid to do nation building instead.

By another name it is called "bllood money".

chanakyaa · Post by **chanakyaa** » 12 Oct 2009 22:21

sum wrote:
How do you know India is not doing stuff behind the scenes in Afghanistan.
Thats what i meant when i said unusual silence from GoI side....Usually, its the empty vessels which make noise but GoI has not uttered a single word about the bombing which could mean some silent stuff is happening in the background or the GoI is clueless as to the next step (as many in BR believe)..

A hypothetical, funny (to make the point) discussion between Mantri and a reporter on Kabul blast.

Reporter: Mantriji, what do you have to say about the Kabul blast?
Mantriji: Why do reporters keep digging out old news? Haven't I clarified on this point before? Ask me about some recent events.

Reporter: Sir, I'm asking about a recent blast that occurred on October 8, 2009, not the one that occurred in 2008.
Mantriji: Oh, really!! A 2nd one. This is shameful.

Reporter: What steps GoI is taking in response of these attacks?
Mantriji: Steps? What steps? We will protest. This time we are going to protest even harder than before.

Reporter: Sir, people of India are tired of this protesting. They want real results. Does this "protesting" really work?
Mantriji: No (mumbles to the reporter). But, protesting is all I do best. You see, a skill I learned while in opposition. Look, we are children of Mahatma Gandhi and we believe in protesting. We have decided to follow Gandhiji's non-violence instead of taking more aggressive approach of Subhash Chandra Bose.

Reporter: Mantriji, Pokistan is now acting as a middle agent between Afg. and west and is capitalizing on its so-called "ally" relationship with the west to decide whether India should be in Afg. and to what extent. In addition, they have also secured loan guarantees from yankees that will ensure that Pokistan will not go bankrupt. Isn't it ridiculous?
Mantriji: Yes. It is ridiculous. You see, we don't have guts to touch Taliban or ISI, so we asked our big brother, the U.S., to request Pokistan to stop meddling in our engagement in Afg. We are very positive that Pokis will change their mind. Its not that such requests have worked in the past but every time we protest, my confidence grows stronger.

Reporter: Mantriji, don't you think it is easier for Pokistan to destabilize GoI ambitions in Afg. by engaging in Kabul blast type activities without ever being caught because it is so easy to leave a bag full of explosives outside an embassy by paying a local some foreign currency? If it so difficult to avoid explosions in our own country, what makes you think you can avoid such incidents in the future?
Mantriji: I never thought about that. You are right, it is a difficult task. I thought it would be lot more easier than choosing colour for my new VW Skoda.

Reporter: Sir, I understand that Afg. is coming out of a war and still unstable, but can you tell me 2 strategic things done by GoI in the Afg/Pk area, other than opening embassy?
Mantriji: (5 minute silence because Mantri is still scratching his head). Can I pass this question?

Reporter: Has GoI taken any steps to secure energy flow that seemed to be one of the reasons for the Afg. war? How about working towards securing a control over the northern state of Kashmir (Karakoram) and then work towards establishing a land connection to central Asia (Tajikistan, Uzbekistan, Kyrgyzstan) through Afghanistan that will allow IN to bring in Natural Gas which is so critical to IN's energy needs of tomorrow.
Mantriji: (angry) Are you asking IN to cross line of control and go into PoK? This will start a war. Your question is ridiculous. We have "no first arms" policy except when it comes to suppress my opponent's supporters in local elections.

Reporter: Mantriji, If we couldn't take a arms to protect our land from Pokistan in last 40 years what makes you think we will do it in next 40 years? Considering, Pokistan is getting stronger by day and any armed conflict will SERIOUSLY affect economic situation in IN which is so critical to IN's growth. Also, no foreigner will invest in a country that is on the bring of war?
Mantriji: (Mantriji had no answer to this question. He realized that "survival of the fittest" still rules. National interests are more important than personal gains, and the interview abruptly ended..)

JAI HIND

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 12 Oct 2009 22:25

The PBS Frontline TV show on Tuesday is on Af-Pak.

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 14 Oct 2009 11:51

One cannot "buy" an Afghan,one can only rent one",famous words of the British after their Afghan experiences during the days of the Raj.This British general seems to have forgotten the words of his forbears and has actually admitted "defeat" by this statement.They cannot "batter" the Taliban so they now want to "butter" them! What a sorry state of affairs.The Taliban will simply take the money and run ,use ot to buy more weaponry and conntinue to blast the enemy with their IEDs.The only language that the Taliban and their Paki handlers understand is that of firepower.The time has come for the use of B-52s yet again.Those who have not learnt from history are doomed to repeat it.British and Yanquis both.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/w ... uote]Maybe we can buy our way to victory in Afghanistan, says general

An Afghan soldier guards a prisoner suspected of planting explosives in Helmand province. Their suspected target was a joint US-British convoy
Martin Fletcher in Kabul .

Afghan insurgents should be offered amnesties and removal from the coalition’s “wanted" list if they lay down their arms, says the British general charged with coaxing fighters away from their extremist leaders.

“There’s no question about it: amnesty would be part of this initiative,” Lieutenant-General Sir Graeme Lamb told The Times. The insurgents might have blood on their hands, but “who doesn’t?” he asked. “We’ve killed people that they would say ‘these were entirely innocent people’.”

The Afghan Government and the coalition should also consider releasing prisoners and detainees who renounced violence, the former special forces commander said in an interview at Nato’s Kabul headquarters.

Drawing on lessons he learnt in Northern Ireland, General Lamb argued that neither side could win the present conflict through force alone: “The idea that we just continue to fight to a bloody end — from my experience of 38 years of soldiering — would be nonsensical,” he said. “We can’t fight our way to success.”

Related Links
Britain's success in Afghanistan is measured in small steps
Rising clamour for Afghanistan pull out
Soviet-era camps are Taleban breeding ground

The only way to end the eight-year war was to win over the “vast majority” of insurgents fighting simply because they were being paid by the Taleban, had grievances, or had been brainwashed, he said.

Many were “young men who fight well, for a bad cause”, he said. “Some will have been drawn in because they believe they are doing the right thing.” It would be wrong to use simplistic labels such as “good” or “evil” to describe them, he said. General Lamb, 56, helped to persuade Sunni insurgents to break with al-Qaeda in Iraq — a turning point in that war.

Two months ago, his old friend General Stanley McChrystal, the US and Nato commander in Afghanistan, lured him out of retirement to attempt something similar in Afghanistan, though he insists his role is merely to advise the Afghan Government.

General Lamb says the Taleban’s hardline Islamic leadership is beyond redemption: “As night follows day, they will contest us, and challenge us. We either incarcerate them or kill them or they leave.”

But he doubts that the hardliners account for more than ten per cent of the insurgency. The rest, he categorises as “upset brothers” or “guns for hire”, and insists that they can be persuaded to switch sides through dialogue and economic inducements.

Some will be angry at Government corruption, or will have lost relatives in coalition airstrikes, or may feel the West has reneged on its promises. Some will have been brainwashed to believe the coalition has come to fight Islam, and genuinely think they are “fighting for a right cause”.

Others will have taken up arms simply because the Taleban pays them $300 to plant a roadside bomb: “If you have no job, no employment and a fairly uncertain future — and you need to feed your family, or want to match your father’s derring-do against the Russians — then you’ll be inclined to take that,” he said. The coalition and Afghan Government needed to “enter a dialogue with people to understand their grievances, their needs, and what they’re upset about”, he said.

They needed to build factories and schools, so they could tell young Afghans: “Here’s a course you can go into, here’s a placeholder for the job we’re going to create.” They needed to challenge Taleban propaganda that said foreign forces had come to destroy Islam. To encourage “reintegration”, the Afghan Government and the coalition would have to consider “amnesty, issues of detention, issues of prisoners, issues of refugees, issues of how these individuals are brought back,” General Lamb said, though he refused to be more specific. Likewise he said, there was “absolutely no question” that insurgents wanted by the coalition could be removed from the list — if they met certain conditions.

It will be a tall order to win over the fighters at a time when President Karzai’s Government is widely reviled; the deteriorating security situation has severely curtailed development work and the Taleban has extended its reach to 80 per cent of Afghanistan, and threatens to kill those who consort with the enemy.

General Lamb is also vague, as yet, about how such a dialogue should be conducted, and how those prepared to change sides would be protected. He insists, however, that his mission is “doable”.

He argues that the Afghan people are courageous, weary of war, and acutely conscious of what life was like before the US ousted the Taleban in 2001: “They know exactly how autocratic, bloody and murderous circumstances were under the Taleban, and they would not wish to return to that.”

[/quote]

PS:Last night our erudite FM was on a channel where he was asked about China's insult to India and our PM demanding that we leave Arunachal Pradesh alone (!) .You should actually see the BBC news item where the Chinese spokesman makes his outrageous demand that is ful of menace and arrogance.There is simply no way that we can allow this insult to go unpunished.The FM in his gentle style simply reiterated India's position that AP is ours and that we and the PM can go where we please.Time to start burning CHinese flags.

shyamd · Post by **shyamd** » 14 Oct 2009 18:40

Al-Qaeda's guerrilla chief lays out strategy

By Syed Saleem Shahzad

ANGORADA, South Waziristan, at the crossroads with Afghanistan - A high-level meeting on October 9 at the presidential palace between Pakistan's civil and military leaders endorsed a military operation against the Pakistani Taliban and al-Qaeda in the South Waziristan tribal area - termed by analysts as the mother of all regional conflicts.

At the same time, al-Qaeda is implementing its game plan in the South Asian war theater as a part of its broader campaign against American global hegemony that began with the attacks in the United States of September 11, 2001.

Al-Qaeda's target remains the United States and its allies, such as Europe, Israel and India, and it does not envisage diluting this strategy by embracing Muslim resistances on narrow parameters. In this context, militant activity in Pakistan is seen as a complexity rather than as a part of al-Qaeda's strategy.

Militants have been particularly active over the past few days. Last Thursday, a car loaded with explosives rammed into the compound wall of the Indian Embassy in Kabul, Afghanistan's capital, killing at least 17 people. Then on Saturday, militants staged an audacious attack on the the Pakistani military headquarters in Rawalpindi, the twin city of the capital, Islamabad. On Monday, a suicide bomber detonated a bomb in market town in the Swat Valley region, killing 41 people and injuring 45 others.

Pakistan is at critical juncture, with the armed forces gathered in their largest-ever numbers (almost a corps, as many as 60,000 troops) around South Waziristan to flush out the Pakistan Tehrik-e-Taliban (PTT), al-Qaeda and their allies from the Pakistani tribal areas.

In these tense times, Mohammad Ilyas Kashmiri, an al-Qaeda leader who, according to American intelligence is al-Qaeda's head of military operations and whose death they wrongly confirmed in a recent US Predator drone attack in North Waziristan, spoke to Asia Times Online.

He invited this correspondent to a secret hideout in the South Waziristan-Afghanistan border area, where drones regularly fly overhead.

This is Ilyas' first-ever media interaction since he joined al-Qaeda in 2005. He is a veteran commander from the struggle with India over divided Kashmir.

In the past few months, the militants have appeared to be on the back foot. A number of leading figures have been killed in drone attacks in Pakistan, including Osama al-Kini, a Kenyan national and al-Qaeda's external operations chief; Khalid Habib, the commander of the Lashkar al-Zil or the Shadow Army, al-Qaeda's fighting force; Tahir Yuldashev, leader of the al-Qaeda-linked Islamic Movement of Uzbekistan; PTT leader Baitullah Mehsud, and several others.

The Pakistani Taliban have also been given a bloody nose by the military in tribal and urban areas. Negotiations were also underway to strike peace deals with some Taliban commanders in various Afghan provinces.

Then last week at least nine US troops along with several dozen Afghan National Army (ANA) personnel were killed in a raid on an outpost in Nuristan province, besides the abduction of over 30 ANA officers and soldiers by the Taliban.

This attack was complemented by a series of other attacks on North Atlantic Treaty Organization bases across the southeastern provinces of Khost, Paktia and Paktika, forcing top US General Stanley McChrystal to pull out all troops from isolated posts in remote areas in these provinces to relocate them in population centers.

This created immense space for the Taliban to operate freely, meaning that if Pakistan conducted operations in South Waziristan, the militants could easily move across the border to find sanctuary.

The attacks over the past few days have also shown that the militants are still capable of striking important targets almost at will. They also mean a redesign of the war theater in which Pakistan will have to relocate its troops from the eastern front (India) to the western front (Afghanistan), as the Taliban are now the number one enemy.

Washington plans to send at least another 40,000 troops to Afghanistan while India will complement these efforts with its intelligence and military expertise against the common enemy - Muslim militant groups.

The upcoming battle
Ilyas Kashmiri gave his views on what the upcoming battle will look like, what its targets will be, and how it will impact the West in relation to the destabilization of a Muslim state such as Pakistan.

The contact with Asia Times Online began with a call from the militants on October 6, inviting this correspondent to the town of Mir Ali in North Waziristan. No reason was given. The next day, I traveled to Mir Ali, a town that has been heavily attacked by drones over the past year. After over seven hours of continuous traveling, I was received by a group of armed men who transferred me to a house belonging to a local tribesman.

"The commander [Ilyas Kashmiri] is alive. You know that the commander has never spoken to the media before, but since everybody is sure of his death as a result of a drone attack [in September], al-Qaeda's shura [council] decided to make a denial of this news through an interview by him to an independent newspaper, and therefore the shura agreed on you," a person whom I knew as the key person in Ilyas' famous 313 Brigade told me as soon as I reached the safe house. The brigade, a collection of jihadi groups, fought for many years against India in India-administered Kashmir.

"You will have to stay in this room until we inform you of the next plan. You can hear the voices of drones above your head, therefore you will not leave the room. The area is full of Taliban, but also of informers whose information on the presence of strangers in a house could lead to a drone attack," the man said.

The next day, I was transferred to another house at an unknown location, about three hours away. During this time I was accompanied at all times by an armed escort. I was not allowed to speak to them, and they could not communicate with me. This is al-Qaeda's internal world. Finally, in the early morning of October 9, a few armed men arrived in a white car.

"Please leave all your electronic gadgets here. No cell phone, no camera, nothing. We will provide you pen and paper to write the interview," I was instructed. After several hours of a very uncomfortable journey, passing down muddy tracks and through mountain passes, we reached a room where Ilyas was supposed to meet us.

After a couple of hours, suddenly the sound of a powerful vehicle broke the silence. My escort and the men already present in the room rapidly took up positions. They all wore bullet pouches and carried AK-47s.

Ilyas made his entrance. He cut a striking figure, about six feet tall (1.83 meters), wearing a cream-colored turban and white qameez shalwar (traditional shirt and pants), carrying an AK-47 on his shoulder and a wooden stick in one hand, and flanked by commandos of his famous diehard 313 Brigade.

Ilyas now sports a long white beard dyed with reddish henna. At the age of 45 he remains strongly built, although he carries the scars of war - he has lost an eye and an index figure. When we shook hands, his grip was powerful.

The host immediately served lunch, and we sat on the floor to eat.
"So, you have survived a third drone strike ... why is the Central Intelligence Agency [CIA] sniffing around you so much? I asked.

The question was somewhat rhetorical. He is one of the most high-profile al-Qaeda commanders, with a Pakistani bounty of 50 million rupees (US$600,000) on his head. His position is defined differently by various intelligence and media organizations. Some say he is commander-in-chief of al-Qaeda's global operations, while others say he is chief of al-Qaeda's military wing.

If today al-Qaeda is divided into three spheres, Osama bin Laden is undoubtedly the symbol of the movement and his deputy Ayman al-Zawahiri defines al-Qaeda's ideology and broader strategic vision. Ilyas, with his unmatched guerrilla expertise, turns the strategic vision into reality, provides the resources and gets targets achieved, but he chooses to remain in the background and very low key.

His bases and activities have always remained shrouded in secrecy. However, the arrest of five of his men in Pakistan earlier this year and their subsequent grilling helped lift the veil. Their information resulted in CIA drone strikes against him, the first in May and then again on September 7, when he was pronounced dead by Pakistani intelligence, and finally on September 14, after which the CIA said he was dead and called it a great success in the "war on terror".

"They are right in their pursuit. They know their enemy well. They know what I am really up to," Ilyas proudly replied.

Born in Bimbur (old Mirpur) in the Samhani Valley of Pakistan-administered Kashmir on February 10, 1964, Ilyas passed the first year of a mass communication degree at Allama Iqbal Open University, Islamabad. He did not continue due to his heavy involvement in jihadi activities.

The Kashmir Freedom Movement was his first exposure in the field of militancy, then the Harkat-ul Jihad-i-Islami (HUJI) and ultimately his legendary 313 Brigade. This grew into the most powerful group in South Asia and its network is strongly knitted in Afghanistan, Pakistan, Kashmir, India, Nepal and Bangladesh. According to some CIA dispatches, the footprints of 313 Brigade are now in Europe and capable of the type of attack that saw a handful of militants terrorize the Indian city of Mumbai last November.

Little is documented of Ilyas' life, and what has been reported is often contradictory. However, he is invariably described, certainly by world intelligence agencies, as the most effective, dangerous and successful guerrilla leader in the world.

He left the Kashmir region in 2005 after his second release from detention by Pakistan's Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI) and headed for North Waziristan. He had previously been arrested by Indian forces, but he broke out of jail and escaped. He was then detained by the ISI as the suspected mastermind of an attack on then-president Pervez Musharraf, in 2003, but was cleared and released. The ISI then picked Ilyas up again in 2005 after he refused to close down his operations in Kashmir.

His relocation to the troubled border areas sent a chill down spines in Washington as they realized that with his vast experience, he could turn unsophisticated battle patterns in Afghanistan into audacious modern guerrilla warfare.

Ilyas' track record spoke for itself. In 1994, he launched the al-Hadid operation in the Indian capital, New Delhi, to get some of his jihadi comrades released. His group of 25 people included Sheikh Omar Saeed (the abductor of US reporter Daniel Pearl in Karachi in 2002) as his deputy. The group abducted several foreigners, including American, Israeli and British tourists and took them to Ghaziabad near Delhi. They then demanded that the Indian authorities release their colleagues, but instead they attacked the hideout. Sheikh Omar was injured and arrested. (He was later released in a swap for the passengers of a hijacked Indian aircraft). Ilyas escaped unhurt.

On February 25, 2000, the Indian army killed 14 civilians in Lonjot village in Pakistan-administered Kashmir after commandos had crossed the Line of Control (LoC) that separates the two Kashmirs. They returned to the Indian side with abducted Pakistani girls, and threw the severed heads of three of them at Pakistani soldiers.

The very next day, Ilyas conducted a guerilla operation against the Indian army in Nakyal sector after crossing the LoC with 25 fighters of 313 Brigade. They kidnapped an Indian army officer who was later beheaded - his head was paraded in the bazaars of Kotli back in Pakistani territory.

However, the most significant operation of Ilyas was in Aknoor cantonment in Indian-administered Kashmir against the Indian armed forces following the massacre of Muslims in the Indian city of Gujarat in 2002. In cleverly planned attacks involving 313 Brigade divided into two groups, Indian generals, brigadiers and other senior officials were lured to the scene of the first attack. Two generals were injured (the Pakistan army could not injure a single Indian general in three wars) and several brigadiers and colonels were killed. This was one of the most telling setbacks for India in the long-running Kashmiri insurgency.

Despite what some reports claim, Ilyas was never a part of Pakistan's special forces, nor even of the army. Nearly 30 years ago when he joined the Afghan jihad against the Soviets from the platform of the HUJI, he developed expertise in guerrilla warfare and explosives.

Within just months of arriving in the Afghan war theater in 2005, Kashmiri redefined the Taliban-led insurgency based on legendary Vietnamese General Vo Nguyen Giap's three-pronged guerrilla warfare strategy. For the Taliban, the main emphasis was to be placed on cutting NATO's supply lines from all four sides of Afghanistan, and carrying out special operations similar to the Mumbai attack in Afghanistan.

Over the years, Ilyas has deliberately adopted a low key presence in the militants' hierarchy. His attacks are just the opposite, although he never issues statements or claims responsibility for any operation.

His 313 Brigade is believed to be the main catalyst of high-profile operations such as the one in Mumbai and others in Afghanistan, as well as al-Qaeda's operations in Somalia and to some extent in Iraq.

"Do you believe that the upcoming South Waziristan operation will be the 'mother of all operations' in the region, as some analysts say," I asked after we had finished lunch and I was alone with Ilyas and his trusted confidant.

"I don't know how to play with words during an interview," Ilyas responded. "I have always been a field commander and I know the language of battlefields. I will try to answer your questions in the language I am familiar with. (Ilyas spoke mostly in Urdu, mixed with some Punjabi.)

"Saleem! I will draw your attention to the basics of the present war theater and use that to explain the whole strategy of the upcoming battles. Those who planned this battle actually aimed to bring the world's biggest Satan [US] and its allies into this trap and swamp [Afghanistan]. Afghanistan is a unique place in the world where the hunter has all sorts of traps to choose from.

"It might be deserts, rivers, mountains and the urban centers as well. This was the thinking of the planners of this war who were sick and tired of the great Satan's global intrigues and they aim for its demise to make this world a place of peace and justice. However, the great Satan was full of arrogance of its superiority and thought of Afghans as helpless statues who would be hit from all four sides by its war machines, and they would not have the power and capacity to retaliate.

"This was the illusion on which a great alliance of world powers came to Afghanistan, but due to their misplaced conceptions they gradually became trapped in Afghanistan. Today, NATO does not have any significance or relevance. They have lost the war in Afghanistan. Now, when they realized their defeat, they developed an emphasis that this entire battle is being fought from outside of Afghanistan, that is, the two Waziristans. To me, this military thesis is a mirage which has created a complex situation in the region and created reactions and counter-reactions. I would not like to go into the details, to me that was nothing but deviation. As a military commander, the reality is that the trap of Afghanistan is successful and the basic military targets on the ground have been achieved," Ilyas said.

I responded that the relocation of 313 Brigade from Kashmir was itself proof that foreign hands were involved in Afghanistan.

"The entire basis of your argument is wrong, that this war is being fought from outside of Afghanistan. This is just an out-of-context understanding of the whole situation. If you discuss myself and 313 Brigade, I decided to join the Afghan resistance as an individual and I had quite a reason for that. Everybody knows that only a decade ago I was fighting a war of liberation for my homeland Kashmir.

"However, I realized that decades of armed and political struggles could not help to inch forward a resolution of this issue. Nevertheless, East Timor's issue was resolved without losing much time. Why? Because the entire game was in the hands of the great Satan, the USA. Organs like the UN and countries like India and Israel were simply the extension of its resources and that's why there was a failure to resolve the Palestinian issue, the Kashmir issue and the plight of Afghanistan.

"So I and many people all across the world realized that analyzing the situation in any narrow regional political perspective was an incorrect approach. This is a different ball game altogether for which a unified strategy is compulsory. The defeat of American global hegemony is a must if I want the liberation of my homeland Kashmir, and therefore it provided the reasoning for my presence in this war theater.

Ilyas continued, "When I came here I found my step justified; how the world regional powers operate under the umbrella of the great Satan and how they are supportive of its great plans. This can be seen here in Afghanistan." He added that al-Qaeda's regional war strategy, in which they have hit Indian targets, is actually to chop off American strength.

"The RAW [India's Research and Analysis Wing] has detachment command centers in the Afghan provinces of Kunar, Jalalabad, Khost, Argun, Helmand and Kandahar. The cover operations are road construction companies. For instance, the road construction contract from Khost city to the Tanai tribe area is handled by a contractor who is actually a current Indian army colonel. In Gardez, telecommunication companies are the cover for Indian intelligence operations. Mostly, their men operate with Muslim names, but actually the employees are Hindus."

"So should the world expect more Mumbai-like attacks?" I asked.

"That was nothing compared to what has already been planned for the future," Ilyas replied.

"Even against Israel and the USA?" I asked.

"Saleem, I am not a traditional jihadi cleric who is involved in sloganeering. As a military commander, I would say every target has a specific time and reasons, and the responses will be forthcoming accordingly," Ilyas said.

As I noted Kashmiri's answers, I thought of how several years back he was the darling of the Pakistani armed forces, their pride. The highest military officers were proud to meet him at his base in Kashmir, they spent time with him and listened to the legends of his war games. Today, I had a different person in front of me - a man condemned as a terrorist by the Pakistani military establishment and their biggest wish is his death.

"What impressed you to join al-Qaeda?" I asked.

"We were both victims of the same tyrant. Today, the entire Muslim world is sick of Americans and that's why they are agreeing with Sheikh Osama. If all of the Muslim world is asked to elect their leader, their choice would be either [Taliban leader] Mullah Omar or Sheikh Osama," Ilyas said.

"If it is so, why are a section of militants bent on war on Muslim states like Pakistan? Do you think this is correct?"

"Our battle cannot be against Muslims and believers. As I have mentioned earlier, what is happening at the moment in the Muslim world is a complexity due to American power games which have resulted into reactions and counter-reactions. This is a totally different debate and might deviate me from the real topic. The real game is the fight against the great Satan and its adherents," Ilyas said.

"What turned you from the most-beloved friend to the most-hated foe in the eyes of the Pakistani military establishment?" I asked.

"Pakistan is my beloved country and the people who live there are our brothers, sisters and relatives. I cannot even think of going against its interests. It was never the Pakistan army that was against me, but certain elements who branded me as an enemy to cover up their weaknesses and to appease their masters," Ilyas said.

"What is 313 Brigade?" I asked.

"I cannot tell you, except war is all tactics and this is all 313 Brigade is about; reading the enemy's mind and reacting accordingly. The world thought that Prophet Mohammad only left women behind. They forgot there were real men also who did not know what defeat was all about. The world is only familiar with those so-called Muslims who only follow the direction of the air and who don't have their own will. They do not have their own minds or dimensions of their own. The world has yet to see real Muslims. They have so far only seen Osama and Mullah Omar, while there are thousands of others. Wolves only respect a lion's iron slap; lions do not impress with the logic of a sheep," Ilyas said.

As the shadows of darkness emerged, the conversation ended. The next day, a curfew was to be imposed in North Waziristan in preparation for the grand operation in the region, and I had to leave the area. Ilyas also needed to move to a new destination, as he does on a regular basis to hide from the eyes of Predator drones.

Syed Saleem Shahzad is Asia Times Online's Pakistan Bureau Chief. He can be reached at [email protected]

harbans · Post by **harbans** » 14 Oct 2009 19:19

This struck me. I never heard of any such instance. So i decided to check up..where the Atime correspondent got this from and quoted it as fact..

On February 25, 2000, the Indian army killed 14 civilians in Lonjot village in Pakistan-administered Kashmir after commandos had crossed the Line of Control (LoC) that separates the two Kashmirs. They returned to the Indian side with abducted Pakistani girls, and threw the severed heads of three of them at Pakistani soldiers.

From Hamid Mir almost verbatim..

Indian Army killed 14 civilians on February 25, 2000 in Lonjot village of Nakial in Azad Kashmir. Indian commandos crossed the LoC, spent the whole night in a Pakistani village and left early morning. They slit the throats of three girls and took away their heads with them. They also kidnapped two local girls. The next morning, the heads of the kidnapped girls were thrown towards Pakistani soldiers by the Indian Army.

http://letusbuildpakistan.blogspot.com/ ... tween.html

I don't see any other source that authenticates the IA ever did such a thing.

shravan · Post by **shravan** » 14 Oct 2009 20:02

harbans wrote: I don't see any other source that authenticates the IA ever did such a thing.

Here is the original source

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world ... 24683.html
Friday, 25 February 2000
Roshan Moghul, Associated Press Writer
---
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2000/fe ... rymccarthy
Saturday 26 February 2000

harbans · Post by **harbans** » 14 Oct 2009 20:24

^^Thanks! Clears things up..

The killings come ahead of President Bill Clinton's visit to India and Bangladesh next month. New Delhi has put intense pressure on the US to exclude Pakistan from the tour because of the October military coup there; there have been hints in Washington that Pakistan might be added to the itinerary.

When he landed the Paki's massacred Sikhs. They used people like Ilyas for these dirty tasks. So this was a part of 'internationalizing' the Kashmir Issue when Bill was focussing on this part of the continent. Atimes however should not plant it as if it happened. IA does'nt indulge in this sort of mindless killing. Hope Ray ji gives his opinion on this.

surinder · Post by **surinder** » 14 Oct 2009 20:41

I saw the program on PBS last night. It was a great program. It does not look amerikhaans can win this thingie; the whole documentary showed a bleak picture of marines walking like sitting ducks, confined & surrounded by a hostile unfriendly people.

TSP generals were cornered about Haqqani n/w & Mullah Omaar. As usual they gave unconvincing denials. There seems to be considerable anger building in the amerikhans against TSP, but it does not look like clarity has dawned on them. Just like the TSP cannot let go of the Talibums, US cannot let go of TSP too. TSP is amerikhans Talibum. It seems a decision point has come for TSP-Ameri relations. What shape it wil take will be interesting to observe. Even if no decision is taken, events are moving in a direction where conflict & massive changes & reorientations will force it. I do not see TSP coming out of this intact, or healthy.

The Aghan intelligence chief was most eloquent. This young handsome man, spoke very solid words. Indian ministers are more fawning & servile, but this man from a failed nation was more sure & forceful, I am sorry to say. He said it clearly, "You cannot incentivize bad behaviour" (referring to US help to TSP.) His anger was clearly visible under the surface.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 14 Oct 2009 22:47

You said it best. "TSP is America's Talibums!" for their strategic depth in South and Central Asia.

Rangudu · Post by **Rangudu** » 14 Oct 2009 23:03

Everyone watch the program for themselves and weep:

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/obamaswar/

Look for the interviews with Holbrooke, Patterson, McChrystal and co. as well as the TSP section.

surinder · Post by **surinder** » 14 Oct 2009 23:46

Weep for who?

surinder · Post by **surinder** » 14 Oct 2009 23:49

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 02893.html

PBS Frontline producer Martin Smith discussed his film "Obama's War," an examination of U.S. counterinsurgency strategy in Afghanistan and Pakistan.

Washington, D.C.: Your conversations with the Pakistani army and intelligence spokesmen were really eye-opening. They seem perpetually stuck in a "spin" cycle. No wonder, as Nagl says, you have to hold your nose in dealing with them. I know you aren't a mind-reader, and can't say whether you might be good at playing poker, but do you really think these spokesmen actually believe what they were telling you was the truth, or are they just plain covering up.

Martin Smith: I believe they are covering up. I have spoken to at least one former Pakistani military official who described to me how he was trained "to lie."

V_Raman · Post by **V_Raman** » 14 Oct 2009 23:59

weep for india as there is a combined pak/china escalation is coming...

i think the only way to prevent it is some surprising developments during the MMS state visit on nov 24...

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 15 Oct 2009 00:05

V_Raman wrote:weep for india as there is a combined pak/china escalation is coming...

i think the only way to prevent it is some surprising developments during the MMS state visit on nov 24...

Now-now. Lets not be defeatist. Best opportunity for the butterfly.

KLNMurthy · Post by **KLNMurthy** » 15 Oct 2009 02:09

surinder wrote:I saw the program on PBS last night. It was a great program. It does not look amerikhaans can win this thingie; the whole documentary showed a bleak picture of marines walking like sitting ducks, confined & surrounded by a hostile unfriendly people.

TSP generals were cornered about Haqqani n/w & Mullah Omaar. As usual they gave unconvincing denials. There seems to be considerable anger building in the amerikhans against TSP, but it does not look like clarity has dawned on them. Just like the TSP cannot let go of the Talibums, US cannot let go of TSP too. TSP is amerikhans Talibum. It seems a decision point has come for TSP-Ameri relations. What shape it wil take will be interesting to observe. Even if no decision is taken, events are moving in a direction where conflict & massive changes & reorientations will force it. I do not see TSP coming out of this intact, or healthy.

The Aghan intelligence chief was most eloquent. This young handsome man, spoke very solid words. Indian ministers are more fawning & servile, but this man from a failed nation was more sure & forceful, I am sorry to say. He said it clearly, "You cannot incentivize bad behaviour" (referring to US help to TSP.) His anger was clearly visible under the surface.

Amrullah Saleh. Impressive man, especially when he was being terse and monosyllabic. Barely controlled fury.

pgbhat · Post by **pgbhat** » 15 Oct 2009 04:14

Obama's War ---- PBS Video.