The Jan Lokpal Bill, Anna Hazare, and Baba Ramdev II

[Singha]

The Empire Strikes Back! - ibnlive

New Delhi: Anna Hazare's associate Kiran Bedi and Bollywood actor Om Puri are in trouble for lampooning MPs and politicians during the anti-corruption agitation at Ramlila Maidan. Lok Sabha Speaker Meira Kumar has accepted a privilege motion against the duo for their antics at Ramlila Maidan.

Meira Kumar said she had received notices from PL Punia, Jagadambika Pal, Ramashankar Rajbhar, Lalchand Kataria, Mirza Aslam Beg, Praveen Aron and Shailendra Kumar. "The matter is under my consideration," she said.

The privilege motion against Bedi and Puri has been sent to the Privilege Committee by the Speaker.

While Bedi had in a parody at the Ramlila Maidan attacked politicians, saying they were several masks and can't be trusted; Puri had called them illiterate, rustic and useless.

"Most of the parliamentarians are illiterate, 'ganwar' (rustic) and 'naalayak' (useless). Look at the way they fight with each other. They throw chairs, mikes at each others," Puri had said at the Ramlila Maidan.

Puri has already apologised on Sunday for his speech during a discussion on IBN7.

"I am unhappy with myself over two of the terms that I used. The first is 'uneducated' and the second is 'useless'. I agree I could have used better language, but I was caught in the moment and so used those terms," Puri said.

Rajya Sabha Members Ram Gopal Yadav (Samajwadi Party) and Mohammed Adeeb (Independent) moved the privilege motion against the duo for attacking parliamentarians.

What is a privilege motion:

A privilege motion is a parliamentary motion that is granted precedence over ordinary business because it concerns matters of great importance or urgency.

During a privilege motion, a Member of Parliament can raise a question involving a breach of privilege either of a member or of the Council or of a Committee with the consent of the Speaker.

If the Speaker feels that the matter, raised by the member who has given notice, is urgent and is of sufficient public importance to be raised in the Council at an early date, he may admit the notice.

The House may consider the question and come to a decision or refer it to a Committee of Privileges on a motion made either by the member who has raised the question of privilege or by any other member.

There shall be no formal motion before the Council or voting. The member who has given notice may make a short statement and the Minister shall reply shortly. Any member who has previously intimated to the Chairman may be permitted to take part in the discussion.

[Singha]

in this instance its a complete misuse of the norms of privilege motion - just a case of the pot being called black. as it is, these folks have no shame in behaving like schoolkids inside parliament now they demand fake H&D with legal notices.

they have no H&D. and it cannot be earned by coercion.

[Philip]

What is "Leftist"? IF trying to better the lives of the downtrodden and poor in the country is "socialist or communist" then Gandhi was certainly one!

The problem with politics in India...and abroad in many countries is the plague of jargon,labels.in the US "Liberals" are considered beyond the pale.There is an excellent TV series "Mad Men" going on now set in the US during the Kennedy era,The mentality of the mainly Republcian ad men during the night of the elction is intriguing.In India too, "Socialism" and "Communism" evoke certain fear from middle-of-the-road conservative middle-class Indians who think that it means "revolution" as in the past.

There are many issues that Team AH has to take up.Some are fraught wth danger-such as recalling MPs.It could end up in a constant carnival and "revolving door" parliament.What would be better is to first bar anyone with a criminal record from contesting elections,ban for life from contesting those who have been found guilty of corruption/criminal acts,...and their immediate family members(!),plus stringent punishment by the House for MPs who disgrace it by their acts of vilolence inside both Parliament and Assemblies.The decorum maintained in the House of Commons should be our example,where intense debates take place without the "tamasha" that we see at home a disgrace to the nation.Fast rtack courts are also needed for anti-corruption cases and litigation for electoral fraud,etc.The case of Mr.Chidambaram for example should be spedily disposed of.It would be ludicrous to finally have a similar case for example end up with a minister being unseated on the eve of the next election! The state anti-corruption ombudsman too should have discretionary powers so that a swift investigation and result cab be forthcoming.REfroms in policing too are sorely needed in order that true justice is dealt out by the courts.This is one area where massive corruption is a daily occurenece,"seeing the judge in his chambers",getting an FIR delayed or even not recorded (as in the case of many TN "land-grabbing" cases in media reports,where ex-DMK honchos are alleged to have "grabbed" valuable land belonging to individuals by strong-arm tactics )-justice denied.One interesting objective is to "identify" in states good individuals fit for public office.The list is perhaps endless,but a swift start must be made of the key issues.The momentum must be maintained.

What AH has achieved is exactly that,a true "revolution" in India,the beginning of the "second freedom struggle",this time to rid the nation of traitors who have betrayed the Constitution and the people of India.BR has for many years bemoaned the depths in probity and integrity of the ruling elite of India have plummeted.Many called exactly for what has happened in the momentous last two weeks,a "second freedom struggle".One hopes that all political aprties who truly want suhc a revolution in Indian politics lend their unstuinted support to the AHG movement,which represents the wishes of the people.It has nor been perfct,but to quote Churchill,".... this is not the end. It is not even the beginning of the end. But it is, perhaps, the end of the beginning."

[sumishi]

The Empire Strikes Back! - ibnlive
New Delhi: Anna Hazare's associate Kiran Bedi and Bollywood actor Om Puri are in trouble for lampooning MPs and politicians during the anti-corruption agitation at Ramlila Maidan. Lok Sabha Speaker Meira Kumar has accepted a privilege motion against the duo for their antics at Ramlila Maidan....

If they continue with this, the politicos just stand to be discredited further in the eyes of the Anna supporters in this supercharged atmosphere.

[habal]

labelling is a concept imported from west. It's misuse began with the gulf-wars. It is a manufactured concept to aid in a manufactured debate with pre-determined outcome to renew status-quo establishment.

With the help of labeling all arguments can be ignored or selectively responded.

[Tamang]

Rahul goes missing on ‘historic’ day

NEW DELHI: Where was Rahul Gandhi on a day Lok Sabha witnessed a "historical" Lokpal debate as almost the entire House put it. The star Congress MP and party general secretary was conspicuous by his absence in Lok Sabha on Saturday, when the House under pressure from a fasting Anna Hazare debated the Lokpal bill.

This, just a day after he broke his silence on the Lokpal issue by making a speech during zero hour -- something for which Speaker Meira Kumar was attacked.

He was not spotted in Parliament since Friday morning, after he spoke for 15 minutes during zero hour when no member is allowed to raise an issue for more than three to five minutes.

So he left Parliament after his "game changing speech" and didn't come back even on Saturday. Shows his sincerity.

[Pranav]

Here is RahuL Mehta ji;s thinking.

Dear All,

Every Anna-bhagat says I am defaiming Anna and company. Can you pls tell us which statement of mine is false? Which statement of mine is a lie? I speak truth, and if that truth looks like defamation, it is NOT my faut.
1. I say Anna became famous due to coverage he got from MNC-paid TV-channels. That is truth. eg On Apr-4, only 500-800 people attended the anshan at Jantar Mantar and MNC-paid TV-channels said that 5000 attended the meet. Likewise, MNC-paid TV-channels have given full cioverage to Anna's anshan. I have spoken no lies
2. Next, I say Janlokpal with NO Right to Recall corrupt clauses will help MNCs and Misssionarues because now they need to bribe only 11 Lokpals to control/threaten 1000s of IAS, IPS etc. This is truth3. Next I say, Anna and company did NOT add RTR-Lokpal clauses in their draft. If I am liar, can YOU show me RTR-Lokpal clauses in their draft?
4. And they have all along been saying that RTR after JLP is passed. Well JLP has no passed, but they have now pre-poned RTR movement. I support that. But are they silent on RTR-Lokpal? Why are they silent on RTR Supreme Court judges? Why are they all silent RTR-PM proposal?
5. I said that they want activists to focus on chillars like RTR-sarpanch, RTR-parshad (corporators), RTR-MLA and RTR-MP and they are asking activists NOT to focus on RTR Supreme Court judges. Am I wrong?
Where am I wrong? NO where? I speak 100% truth and you find defamation !! Well, I couldnt care less.

CNN-IBN and NDTV were fairly anti-Anna, so does that mean they are not MNC-paid?

Right to Recall is a separate issue, imho. I think it would be better not to muddy the waters. As and when RTR does come, it should apply to all important posts including Lokpal.

As regards MNC control on Lokpals - transparency of selection procedure will provide some protection. Also powers of Lokpal are limited. Lokpal can investigate, but the Courts will decide.

[Sanku]

I am happy to evaluate all data points ... A good general rule is that the side that wants to shut down free discussion is the side that is either rigidly programmed or has skeletons to hide.

True; however no doubt a lot of noise does enter through that route too....

anyway OT..

[a_kumar]

total votes = 100
Muslims = 30 - 80% voted - 24 votes and all voted to congress. None of them used "I hate all candidate yaar vote"
Dalits = 30 - 60% voted - 18 voted - 12 voted to congress and 6 voted to Shiv Sena
ITVty (u know yaar, I swear Anna is great crowd) = 40 - 90% voted -36 votes - These generally does not come out and vote but these guys are lot enthusiastic with "I hate all" stuff. However there are about 10 dhimmi Muppallas who think Uddav Thakkarey is better than Dawood and voted Shiv Sena. Dawood is a known criminal and the money he used is fake money printed by ISI but CEC Chawla does not find any fault even after RTI activists found incrimination evidence. Uddav Thakkery to compete with Raj Thakkarey made not allowing North and South Indians from Mumbai's government jobs as a priority though Raj Thakkarey actually wants to wipe them out. Looking at the poor choice of candidates, 26 voted to "I hate all yaar".

Final tally -
INC = 24+12 = 36
Shiv Sena = 10 +6 = 16
I hate everyone = 26

Yaaaaahooooo - The greatness of youngistan led to Dawood Ibrahim's win. Dhimmi Muppallas still think that Uddav may be a better choice in the circumstances but "I hate everyone" looked so cool to some. Had they voted to Uddav he may have got 42 and defeated Dawood.

With your choice of groups, I take it you assume voting patterns of Group A ("Muslims") and Group B ("Dalits") do not change, whether reject-all or not. Lets also assume the 10 votes from Group C ("Dhimmis") also don't change.

Here, assuming the 26 voters will vote with SS in absence of "Reject" option is quite a stretch. I would argue they would be in the non-voting category. So, without a "Reject" option INC is clear winner. The only way INC can be beaten is if "Reject" is allowed and more of the Non-voters (Group A, B and C) vote "Reject".

Non-voters are
Group A (6)
Group B (12)
Group C (30)
-------------
total (48)
-------------

Lets say, it requires "Rejects" to be more than all other candidates to cause a re-electoin. The question then is what percentage of "swing voters" are needed to void it, it is around 80% in your example.



Assuming 20% and 20% for Group A and Group B, it becomes 50% of the non-voters to come vote "Reject" in order to cause a re-election



As we add more detail to the chart, the real pattern may emerge.

Whether necessary non-voters will come or not is an interesting question (just like all other options being discussed). But I don't see any evidence yet that can discredit "Reject" option.

[Singha]

if anyone has noticed the ex-karnataka CM was in hospital this weekend, saying he woke up with amnesia, and did not even remember where he was. meantime the fumble harmers son was also expecting some loka ayukta cases to be brought to trial soon.

http://www.mid-day.com/news/2011/aug/22 ... galore.htm
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/new ... 781165.cms

I feel his activities might have been too overt...should take a clue from the First Family of the country

[Philip]

Apologies if this has been posted earlier.THisone has been floating around recently. There has been so much of activity on the anti-C thread its not bene possible to have read every post.

Sonia Gandhi's Surgery?

Ever wondered why the Congress is so tight lipped about this so called 'surgery'? Ever wondred why this shroud of secrecy behind her surgery?Ever wondered why Madam Gandhi had to go at this time for surgery?
And what was the ailment that could not have been attended to by Indian doctors?
Ever wondered that she is accompnied by her family members AND NOT A SINGLE DOCTOR (NOT EVEN HER PERSONAL PHYSICIAN) has accompanied her. Most unusual!

If the then Prime MInister Atal Bihari Vajpayee's knees could have been replaced in Mumbai by a surgeon of Indian origin, why Madam Gandhi needed to go abroad for her surgery?

And even Manmohan Singh though a pensioner of the World bank and able to get free medical treatment in the US, got his heart surgery done in Delhi.......

And has she actually gone to the US or some other country? It is strongly suspected that the need for her to go abroad at this time is linked to the fact that Dr. Subramaniam Swamy's petition for the permission to prosecute Madam Gandhi (an MP) for corruption charges, pending with the Prime Minister's Office, has to be decided before the end of August this year.

Dr. Swamy has given incontrovertible proof of Sonia Gandhi's accounts in foreign banks, and these cannot be overlooked or ignored.

Madam Gandhi is actually suffering from an acute enlargement of her wealth gland. The real surgery for which Madam Gandhi has gone abroad has to do with the operation of her illegal bank accounts, as time is running out for her and her cronies. That is why even Kalanidhi Maran has disappeared from Chennai and is rumoured to have escaped to Zurich.

May God save Bharat Maa from the Corrupt Politicians !!
Have a great day

[Singha]

proof if any against politicians , should be released to the public, since the media is bought out and PMO will hardly go against the party.

[Aditya_V]

if anyone has noticed the ex-karnataka CM was in hospital this weekend, saying he woke up with amnesia, and did not even remember where he was. meantime the fumble harmers son was also expecting some loka ayukta cases to be brought to trial soon.

http://www.mid-day.com/news/2011/aug/22 ... galore.htm
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/new ... 781165.cms

I feel his activities might have been too overt...should take a clue from the First Family of the country

Singha, now we know how much that it costs to hire the Sibals and Jetmalani's in this world.

How the good poor Doctor Binayak Sen Afford him? or are we expected that same lawyers did social service to Binayak Sen?? Funny how the media never comments what one side spends and only what the other side spends. eh

[IndraD]

^^ On news emanating that AH team was helped by Delhi police and inteliigence

It vindicates that penetration of this movement was across government employee and entire middle class. Also some of the help might have come from old friends of K Bedi.

The diminishing of Rahul Gandhi
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/new ... 782428.cms

In the public eye though, the impression remains of a leader who simply refused to engage in a public debate or to visibly commit himself to a point of view in his government's greatest hour of need almost till the very end.

His deafening public silence in the days between Anna's arrest to his eventual prepared speech in the Lok Sabha on Friday only served to raise more questions than answers.

By dodging direct questions on the Anna movement until then, the Congress' leader in waiting not only strengthened the impression of a rudderless party being left adrift, he did himself no favours. Even when he did speak, seeking to regain the initiative through his call for an Election-Commission like Lok Pal, the biggest question was why did he not say so earlier?

http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes ... ohan-singh

A legacy lost

[kmkraoind]

Mission accomplished, Kamla Market police station holds hawan - Hindustan Times

Slight OT. It's difficult to comprehend for pseudo-secularist what is happening, but for dharmic followers the roots are still intact.

The scene at Kamla Market police station in central Delhi was quite different from daily routine on Sunday. Sacred chants echoed inside the compound and all police officers were sitting with their guns downs as a hawan was held to thank the divine powers that helped the police in peacefully concluding the 11-day mammoth protest led by Anna Hazare at the Ramila Maidan.

Notably, officers of the same police station were under fire because of the barbaric crackdown they launched on Baba Ramdev and his supporters in June this year.

Minutes after Anna concluded his fast and left for Gurgaon on Sunday, three priests chanted hymns at an unhurried pace while the officers sat with their eyes closed in the courtyard of the police station. The deeply religious female station officer tried her best to concentrate on the hawan but her frequently ringing phone kept her close to work.

“It all ended well. We were apprehensive that it would end up like Ramdev’s fast in June. It's a great relief for all of us. Handling thousands of volatile protesters was not easy. This is one of the toughest police stations to manage as Ramlila Maidan, which hosts a number of rallies, falls in the territorial jurisdiction and it’s a communally vulnerable area,” said a senior police officer after the hawan ended.

“It was the devotional spirit that guided police in managing the protest of this magnitude. No one got hurt and they all maintained their cool. We dedicated a special hymn to Ramlila Maidan and Anna’s fast,” said Pandit Vikas Navani, the priest who conducted the hawan.

After the hawan got over, an aarti was also performed inside the police station and holy water was sprinkled in the compound. Spouses and kids of police officers also took part in the
religious function. Fruits and sweets were distributed, followed by a lunch. The ceremony was video recorded by the police.

The protest had kept Delhi Police on its toes. “We sought divine intervention before Anna Hazare began his fast at Ramlila Maidan.

And finally it’s over. All’s well that ends well,” added the senior police officer.

[Rahul M]

There should also be some sort of ban on candidates providing gifts and inducements to voters, i.e ending the practice of buying votes.

you think EC has been waiting for this bright idea to appear on BR before it can go ahead on this ?
as per current regulations, a candidate proven guilty of paying voters would be disqualified. it's not the law that is needed, it is better enforcement of the law.

I understand you really do not know much about election code of conduct, but that is ok, no time like now. if anything this movement has raised political awareness among people.

[Patni]

Mission accomplished, Kamla Market police station holds hawan - Hindustan Times

Well! now wait for even more shrill, high pitched "See its all Hindoo/RSS Conspiracy", cries coming out from pseudo-secular crowd followed with demand for inquiry!

[Anantha]

Mole hunt in Team Anna?

Although Team Anna's campaign against corruption has had a tremendous impact as it succeeded in creating a charged atmosphere by channelising the positive energy of people from all walks of life including youth by applying all kinds of management plans, it lacked one thing -- an in--house intelligence system.

"With time, everything fell in place. We had one key issue -- corruption. Later, we established media, marketing, event and other management plans. But for intelligence inputs, we were dependent on the common man, media, police and government machinery," said a member of Team Anna.


Sources in the team claimed they had information that a few people from the group might be government moles and would leak strategies formulated by them. But, as they had no mechanism to catch them, they were helpless.

"We were lucky. Where we failed, someone from outside Team Anna helped us. Even sources in government intelligence and police department helped us indirectly by sharing some information," another associate of Team Anna said.

According to sources, Team Anna had information of Swami Agnivesh's video since Saturday morning. "The information and the video were shared with us before leaking in media, which happened in the afternoon," said a source.

I want to sing loudly "Hum Honge Kamyab Ek Din."

Govt machinary and police dept helping Anna team: All this indicates is the soul of the nation is still alive. Even the 2G scam was leaked out by some p.o'ed IAS babus and Govt servants.

[SwamyG]

3. The "nationalist left"! Here please bear with me:

When we talk about left/right/center - we are looking at Indian politics through the prism of west. Western philosophy does not have grey areas - it has classic black or white - no shade in between, while Indic philosophy is all grey - with either degrees of white or degrees of black. So what do you make of a veteran soldier who uses gandhian methods with a dose of strict enforcement to improve his village? A gandhian, a nationalist, a fascist, a hindutvawadi, a left liberal, a socialist? All of the above - none of the above - some of the above?

Similarly on the "left" side, we do have people who think primarily of social causes (RTI/JLPB) and nothing else, at the same time there are "left liberal intellegentia" (A. Roy types) who are primarily political gadfly's - aam admi be damned, nation be damned, its culture be damned. This movement separated the left grain from the left chafe.

Very well put. We see the Western labels borrowed in the Indian framework without any leeway for the local conditions; and people knee jerk causing their undies to twist. Be it Kautilaya or our Indic traditional politics, citizen welfare is put among the top duties of a State. Over thousands of years, it has become just a theory without people getting some of the benefits of a rule.

[vijayk]

^^ On news emanating that AH team was helped by Delhi police and inteliigence

It vindicates that penetration of this movement was across government employee and entire middle class. Also some of the help might have come from old friends of K Bedi.

The diminishing of Rahul Gandhi
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/new ... 782428.cms

In the public eye though, the impression remains of a leader who simply refused to engage in a public debate or to visibly commit himself to a point of view in his government's greatest hour of need almost till the very end.

His deafening public silence in the days between Anna's arrest to his eventual prepared speech in the Lok Sabha on Friday only served to raise more questions than answers.

By dodging direct questions on the Anna movement until then, the Congress' leader in waiting not only strengthened the impression of a rudderless party being left adrift, he did himself no favours. Even when he did speak, seeking to regain the initiative through his call for an Election-Commission like Lok Pal, the biggest question was why did he not say so earlier?

http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes ... ohan-singh

A legacy lost

The side affect of this whole movement is the exposing of this Nikkamma scion. His image has been so cleverly built by the Mainos, chamchas and dark media but this whole movement has proved him to be a total DUD.

As uncertainty persists about Sonia's health, all eyes are on Rahul Gandhi. But can he carry the weight of this responsibility on his shoulders? More importantly, does he want to step in at a time when the government's popularity graph is down? There are indications that Rahul is gearing up to play a bigger role in the coming days. If party sources are to be believed, he has been taking an active interest in the government's handling of the Anna crisis. The decision to release the Gandhian activist within hours of his arrest was attributed to him. And this week, he finally spoke on the Jan Lokpal bill in Parliament.

Unfortunately, his intervention came as a damp squib. His suggestion to give the Lokpal constitutional status was not only slammed by the opposition parties but also by members of Team Anna. He wants to climb Mount Everest before climbing hills, Kiran Bedi scoffed.

I sometimes think that the Mainos know that he will be a total dud and that's why the 2G SCUMS never open their mouth.

By the way, I have been meaning to ask this question on this forum for long time: According to few sources, the Brand 2G has a set of advisers from Harvard and Cambridge who plan every move of Rahul. It seems that Milliband and some UK politicians help the group. Rahul DUD is a friend of Milliband. Does any one know more about this?

[RamaY]

Right to recall could also be a disaster in India. However, if we implement runoff elections, right to recall can be started at local election levels as a test before extending it to assembly and LS. With a lot of one sided money, you can trigger these stuff to remove the incumbant. What if candidate from Kakinada thinks Ambanis are looting the gas reserves in Godavari on-shore and votes against changing Cairns hold on the share from 26% to 51% proposed by the Milind Deora who is cahoots with Mukesh? In the process Mukesh via some "Kakinada vikaas protsaahan" spends 1116 crores to recall Kakinada LS candidate.

That is true. Any plan must be started at one level and it should be adopted along with additional feedback channels once it is effective.

[sugriva]

The Empire Strikes Back! - ibnlive
... Lok Sabha Speaker Meira Kumar has accepted a privilege motion against the duo for their antics at Ramlila Maidan...

The politicians will be scoring a self-goal if they were to actually move against the duo, especially Bedi. After all what can Parliament do to Bedi? Send her to Tihar jail for one day? Not more than that. Bedi will happily use the occasion to make herself a martyr with all the help that the Jains and Mittals can provide. Bedi will from now on make every effort to provoke the MPs' to do something stupid. The MPs' should show magnanimity and say "jao maaf kiya..."

[Agnimitra]

India finds a new route on the fast track

As a counterpoint to the brutal crackdowns that have accompanied the Arab spring - from Tunisia, Egypt, Bahrain, Syria to Libya - and the social malaise and violence that has gripped the inner cities of Europe, Indian youth have remained largely peaceful, holding up their rights to freely protest.

Notwithstanding the wide gulf that separates Arab, European and Asian political and economic systems, democracy in India led by Gandhians like Hazare has shown the way forward for the developing and the developed world.

Political debate in India over the past two weeks demonstrates that a bottom-up approach to a multiparty democracy does function, albeit with some drawbacks. It may be the best hope for "a globalistan" run by mercenaries, terrorists groups, dictatorships, tribes and religious fanatics, where the ideals of Jeffersonian democracy for now seem forever elusive.

[SwamyG]

The Empire Strikes Back! - ibnlive
... Lok Sabha Speaker Meira Kumar has accepted a privilege motion against the duo for their antics at Ramlila Maidan...

The politicians will be scoring a self-goal if they were to actually move against the duo, especially Bedi. After all what can Parliament do to Bedi? Send her to Tihar jail for one day?

Privleged Motion

http://ibnlive.in.com/news/privilege-mo ... 37-64.html
What is a privilege motion:

A privilege motion is a parliamentary motion that is granted precedence over ordinary business because it concerns matters of great importance or urgency.

During a privilege motion, a Member of Parliament can raise a question involving a breach of privilege either of a member or of the Council or of a Committee with the consent of the Speaker.

If the Speaker feels that the matter, raised by the member who has given notice, is urgent and is of sufficient public importance to be raised in the Council at an early date, he may admit the notice.

The House may consider the question and come to a decision or refer it to a Committee of Privileges on a motion made either by the member who has raised the question of privilege or by any other member.

There shall be no formal motion before the Council or voting. The member who has given notice may make a short statement and the Minister shall reply shortly. Any member who has previously intimated to the Chairman may be permitted to take part in the discussion

Questions: Why are these antics important? Why is it public importance? Why is it so urgent?

From the iBN article

Justice Santosh Hegde, former Karnataka Lokayukta and a close Hazare aide, defended Bedi and Puri while opposing the privilege motion against them. Hegde said that may be Bedi and Puri exceeded in mimic but it is common and at times there is provocation for that.

He said that there is nothing in the Constitution there is nothing against such acts and speeches. He said that breach of privilege should be used in exceptional cases and only after the context is understood.

Rajya Sabha Members Ram Gopal Yadav (Samajwadi Party) and Mohammed Adeeb (Independent) moved the privilege motion against the duo for attacking parliamentarians.

Either these two buffoons, want to get their share of 15 of fame; or acting on the orders from High Command. In either case, if this issue develops its wings and fly; people would only support Puri and Bedi even more. What Puri said, was what most of us talk in our living rooms with friends. The only mistake of Puri was that he was politically incorrect; and might not endear with the real rustic and illiterate who are so not because of choice.

[ManishH]

Sheer panic and insecurity after realizing that people are losing faith in parliament as true vox populi. These worthies had better realize that parliament is "supreme" only as long as people consider it so.

[Hari Seldon]

ROFL...the allegedly honorable MPs are best served by saying 'jane bhi do yaaron' to Om Puri & K Bedi.

Moving privilege against them is a self-goal which, however, with the predictability of paki tactical brilliance, will surely follow, am sure.

[Sanku]

Yes India indeed has a heart check out the wireless transcript

http://ibnlive.in.com/news/police-used- ... 614-3.html

Police used force to evict Ramdev: SC advisor

Police messages before the midnight swoop

12.51 am: They are arresting Ramdev

Kamla Market police are beating up people at Ramlila ground

Send water cannon and teargas guns to the VIP gate

Keep at your position station near police station Kamla Market with video camera

CRPF not obeying orders and moving out of Ramlila Ground.

CRPF refused to dirty there hands in the mess. Good for them, good for us.

India lives.

[pradeepe]

ROFL...the allegedly honorable MPs are best served by saying 'jane bhi do yaaron' to Om Puri & K Bedi.

Moving privilege against them is a self-goal which, however, with the predictability of paki tactical brilliance, will surely follow, am sure.

Could be just a show of force to make sure Anna and team forget the slander that was targeted towards them. Congress' Manish Tewari and even Lalu could have been dragged to court. They'll pass enough gas and when the roaring dwindles down to damp diwali crakers, they'll call it a day.

[IndraD]

Reiterating his "commitment" to submit the recommendations on the Lokpal Bill before the winter session of Parliament, Abhishek Manu Singhvi, chairman of the parliamentary standing committee on law and justice, today said, "it is not possible to fix a time limit for the job."

http://www.hindustantimes.com/No-time-l ... 39348.aspx

[devesh]

^^^
are we seeing a rift within the "loyalist" security foces???

[shivajisisodia]

ROFL...the allegedly honorable MPs are best served by saying 'jane bhi do yaaron' to Om Puri & K Bedi.

Moving privilege against them is a self-goal which, however, with the predictability of paki tactical brilliance, will surely follow, am sure.

Forgive me. I am one of those "ganwars", who had not heard of a privilege motion before, in the context of applying it against speech by a private individual, even if it is public speech.

Someone said in one of the posts, that they can discuss this privilege motion in the parliament, if the speaker permits. What is the worst that can happen to Bedi and Puri ? Can the parliament really send them to jail ? I cant believe this is even possible in a democracy.

On the other hand, if the privilege motion is just hype, why is Puri backtracking and apologising ?

Why are all the illuminaries such as Hegde conceding that the speech by Puri and Bedi went a little too far (although they are saying that it doesnt warrant any punishment)? Why are they giving an inch to people who are trying to suppress free speech ?

Frankly, I dont understand this. Can anyone please explain in simple terms and step by step, what is going on with this privilege motion nonosense and why certain sensible people are conceding that the "speech" went a little too far.

[IndraD]

^^^ What I know is that most get away by apologising in parliament before MPs (naak ragadwana basically) if some one is defiant and decides not to apologise he can be imprisoned, but the cases are contempt of court type cases hence it is of 2-3 days at most. Any harsher sentence can be challenged in court of law.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city ... 786053.cms

MLAs hurl shoes in Rajasthan assembly-(as fresh as today)-why it should be a gunaah to comment on this in public?
I suggest Om Puri winner of three national awards rather decides not to apologise

[Sridhar]

Privilege motions and provisions for punishment for "Contempt of court" are both in the same category. If you go back to the debates in the Constituent Assembly, they were never meant to be used to suppress free expression, even if it was offensive. The purpose of the "Contempt of Court" provisions was to ensure that the writ of the court was obeyed. That if somebody willfully violated an order of the court, they could be punished, so that the order was enforced. The notion of privilege was meant to ensure that members could be punished for misleading a house of Parliament (i.e. it was for use against members primarily) and for anybody else willfully doing the same.

These provisions have been distorted and abused by our courts and elected representatives respectively. There is at least some mention of trying to keep the indiscriminate use of Contempt of Court provisions under check. Perhaps it will be enacted as law (though the judiciary is not going to give up this weapon it wields easily). There is no mention yet of curtailing the privilege powers of legislatures. It has not been tested in the courts either. Perhaps this case will end up forcing the issue. If the privilege proceedings end up taking place, Bedi and Puri, with the legal backing of the Bhushans should file a petition on violation of their Constitutional right to free expression. It might after all end up with the establishments of guidelines on what constitutes a violation of parliamentary privilege and what does not.

[IndraD]

http://www.firstpost.com/politics/facin ... 71787.html

Some MPs want privilege of motion to be pressed against both of them (first O Puri now K Bedi as well) according to aajtak.
K Bedi however, stood by her controversial comments against politicians. “It went against my grain. It is not in my training but it was worth it…I did not mean to hurt anybody,” she said/

It would be interesting to watch what follows in these cases

I wish Om Puri also had commented on how many MPs have criminal cases against them.

Thank actor Om Puri for that, even if grudgingly. His intemperate speech on Friday was a crude assault on politicians. That it has found some mention in the parliamentary debate is proof that he has hit the leaders where it hurts most.

Ganwaar, nalayak, anpadh and a lot more uncharitable words – that’s what Om Puri came up with at Ramlila Maidan. He was wobbly and fumbling for words, say organisers. But his speech was in many ways the inarticulate articulation of what most urban people think about the political class

kya galat kaha?

[Pranav]

Mobocracy Dangerous for Marginalised and Minority Communities [The Statement of Dr. John Dayal, Secretary General, All India Christian Council, and Member, National Integration Council]

http://e-pao.net/epSubPageExtractor.asp ... s_20110829

[ShyamSP]

ROFL...the allegedly honorable MPs are best served by saying 'jane bhi do yaaron' to Om Puri & K Bedi.

Moving privilege against them is a self-goal which, however, with the predictability of paki tactical brilliance, will surely follow, am sure.

Forgive me. I am one of those "ganwars", who had not heard of a privilege motion before, in the context of applying it against speech by a private individual, even if it is public speech.

Someone said in one of the posts, that they can discuss this privilege motion in the parliament, if the speaker permits. What is the worst that can happen to Bedi and Puri ? Can the parliament really send them to jail ? I cant believe this is even possible in a democracy.

On the other hand, if the privilege motion is just hype, why is Puri backtracking and apologising ?

Why are all the illuminaries such as Hegde conceding that the speech by Puri and Bedi went a little too far (although they are saying that it doesnt warrant any punishment)? Why are they giving an inch to people who are trying to suppress free speech ?

Frankly, I dont understand this. Can anyone please explain in simple terms and step by step, what is going on with this privilege motion nonosense and why certain sensible people are conceding that the "speech" went a little too far.

Freedom of speech is fundamental right. What Om Puri if I understand Hindi correctly said is insulting to Ganwars. Ganwars need to go to court for defamation , otherwise court can throw any case against Om Puri as his right is protected by Constitution.

All MPs are not ganwars. They are highly educated and they can pass any tests that can be conducted so what he said is not correct.

[AdityaM]

gawar would be similar to a literate but uneducated person


seen on twitter:
The last time Om Puri approached a fasting man was in Richard Attenborough's Gandhi. He was as unstable then.

[negi]

Ganwar in colloquial terms need not necessarily imply someone who belongs to a village(Ganv in hindi) it is liberally used to describe anyone who is incompetent/irresponsible per se. He in fact qualified the adjective by pointing out as to how these clowns fight and hurl abuses in the parliament , now who will raise a privilege motion against those who broke stuff and used unparliamentary language in the parliament ?

The argument that not all MPs are illiterate/Ganwars is a joke; problem is some of the literate or even the ones with a degree have criminal backgrounds; Om Puri was in fact very easy on these bunch of clowns. They have in fact proved that they are indeed 'Ganwaar/Unpadh' by initiating a privilege motion against someone for merely calling them Ganwaar; goes to show the sense of priority and purpose the proceedings of the said house have.

[Gus]

sorry for not keeping up with this topic..can anyone tell me what's going to happen from now (as agreed upon for ending the fast)

[IndraD]

I support Om Puri-Anupam Kher