India-US Strategic News and Discussion

chaanakya · Post by **chaanakya** » 26 Jan 2014 12:16

You can't entrust Indian Express article with any degree of credibility. It is meant to fudge and fog the issue and paint Dk in bad light just like it tried to do with famous " Army Coup is underway " article. Start reading NewIndianExpress.com by Prabhu C.

pankajs · Post by **pankajs** » 26 Jan 2014 12:18

Indian Express was sighted by some US rag (was it wapo or NYT) for its far, honest and balanced reporting on the DK issue. Not that any proof was required but that to me was a confirmation that Dupatta was taking his lines from US SD via US embassy on DK issue. It had the most anti-DK farticle.

vic · Post by **vic** » 26 Jan 2014 12:19

US Assaultistan President is on call 24 hour a day, so what sort of overtime do Presidents, Policemen, firemen, soldiers get who are on call 24 hours a day?

Shreeman · Post by **Shreeman** » 26 Jan 2014 13:17

UlanBatori wrote:...

Sahib Batori, you always had the knack of bring me out of my slumber.

All individuals are flawed, in one way or the other. The issue at hand is abuse of the system. Analysis of minutia only obscures the obvious.

Water has long flown under the bridge, now the need is transparency of the compromise.

Oh, and that website is interesting. One learns something new everyday.

pankajs · Post by **pankajs** » 26 Jan 2014 13:21

Brahma Chellaney ‏@Chellaney 2h

U.S. and India begin preliminary discussions over an accord granting each other's consular officials similar privileges on reciprocal basis.

anmol · Post by **anmol** » 26 Jan 2014 14:14

pankajs wrote:Indian Express was sighted by some US rag (was it wapo or NYT) for its far, honest and balanced reporting on the DK issue. Not that any proof was required but that to me was a confirmation that Dupatta was taking his lines from US SD via US embassy on DK issue. It had the most anti-DK farticle.

Maybe this is nothing, but I remember reading the Stratfor leaks... I think both Wayne May and Dupatta were/are their informant/contacts in delhi.

merlin · Post by **merlin** » 26 Jan 2014 14:33

pankajs wrote:Brahma Chellaney ‏@Chellaney 2h

U.S. and India begin preliminary discussions over an accord granting each other's consular officials similar privileges on reciprocal basis.

You can trust the US to break any accord reached at a moment's notice when it suits them. So why waste our time going through this shit? Maybe KS's son has no other work.

Sanjay · Post by **Sanjay** » 26 Jan 2014 16:59

Watch out - NYT hatchet job on Delhi air quality. Saying Beijing is much better. Mocks Indian media and frankly Indian population.

panduranghari · Post by **panduranghari** » 26 Jan 2014 17:26

ramana wrote:UB, Many saal pehle I had suggested that forum members should learn to write well referenced articles so they are publication worthy. I note the kufar who wrote that blog has heeded that old advice very well. If you run into him(toba, toba) give him my kudos.

OT,
Ramana Saar you have stated elsewhere about a thread you started on how to write. Can you please redirect me to that thread, whenever you have the time.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 26 Jan 2014 18:43

Sanjay wrote:Watch out - NYT hatchet job on Delhi air quality. Saying Beijing is much better. Mocks Indian media and frankly Indian population.

given the dangerous env they should consider reducing the delhi mission to just essential staff, non-family posting like pakistan and close ancillary facilities like the club and school. why expose more americans than the bare minimum to such poisonous third-world air one asks?

keeping a staff on the payroll here to write up drain inspector reports on "human rights" and "LGBT issues" does not count as essential consular function in any book

so no need to whine and mewl in NYT, just act upon the data.

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 26 Jan 2014 19:04

But what about Paco, with tongue out the window of the Kunal-chauffered limo on covert rendezvous mission to get the imported Chinese Underwear-Burgers?

pankajs · Post by **pankajs** » 26 Jan 2014 19:05

Why not relocate the embassy to the outskirts of New Delhi far away from the dust and grime and the unwashed masses.

sunilUpa · Post by **sunilUpa** » 26 Jan 2014 20:15

pankajs wrote:Why not relocate the embassy to the outskirts of New Delhi far away from the dust and grime and the unwashed masses.

why not delegate to Paki embassy?

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 26 Jan 2014 20:23

My pooch is why not close the Conjulate-e-SDRE in NYC until NYC cleans up its air and its act. Now that there is another Conjulate-e-SDRE in the SE ... So much more civilized. Oh, well, getting Air India to pick up the pngs there may be an issue.

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 26 Jan 2014 20:39

Don't know what to make of this.May be next blowup; then again maybe they all went to Harvard to train as Top Indologist Sturmabteilung for the Indo-Euracist Research group.

SBajwa · Post by **SBajwa** » 26 Jan 2014 21:11

US Assaultistan President is on call 24 hour a day, so what sort of overtime do Presidents, Policemen, firemen, soldiers get who are on call 24 hours a day?

Anybody who gets a salary that is above and beyond the minimum wage can be called up to work anytime in USA.

An average American works about 60 hours a week apart from taking care of his/her house/cars/yard/children etc without any domestic help.

Amber G. · Post by **Amber G.** » 26 Jan 2014 21:19

UlanBatori wrote:My pooch is why not close the Conjulate-e-SDRE in NYC until NYC cleans up its air and its act. Now that there is another Conjulate-e-SDRE in the SE ... So much more civilized. Oh, well, getting Air India to pick up the pngs there may be an issue.

UB (Sorry every time I read your name I am reminded of a rhyming name "Ram Katori ji" from my IIT Kanpur days) you may (or may not) know that this was a serious issue brought up by NYC consulate people in the past. Reason, of course, was asymmetric diplomatic immunity, which did enabled every ain-fe-khaf-khaf jerk to harass these people in NYC (and Chicago, etc). They have requested a few times, to move all the functions to DC (where people enjoyed the immunity) or NYC's UN mission. The argument went, it is no more difficult to mail a passport to NYC, than to DC, to get it stamped, and thus no negative effect will be felt.

DK's affair highlighted this like no previous incident did, but there were previous incidents and GOI should have taken actions long ago. Oh well, as they say, subah ka bhoola sham ko gar aye to... (Better late then never)..

Here is, this aspect articulated by none other than ex NYC consul..
Link:Link

Prabhu Dayal NYC Consul wrote:An atmosphere of fear already pervades our Consulate in New York, and the New York Consulate is no longer a sought-after posting for this reason.

What are we to do in such a situation? Some of my former colleagues go to the extent of saying that if diplomats posted in our Consulates in the USA do not enjoy immunity, then we should close down these Consulates and do all Consular work from the Embassy in Washington DC, where our officials enjoy immunity.
This is not so cynical as it may sound. Firstly, Consular work relating to passports, visas, OCI cards, PIO cards has already been outsourced. Instead of bringing the documents to the Consulates, the outsourcing company could courier them to the Embassy.
Secondly, a large number of persons already send their applications to the Consulates by mail, and they would instead have to send these to Washington DC. What difference would it make if someone living in Boston has to send the application to Washington DC instead of to New York?
Of course,the Embassy's consular Section would have to be considerably strengthened for handling the additional load. All other work such as information, culture, outreach and economic would also have to be done from Washington alone, which is not so difficult in today's age of instant electronic communications.

BTW, Read the whole article, and may be give some background information toyour contacts in Jorjiya, who write about such things.. DK was warned about SK as PD already suspected " some black" in the lentil.

I met (Devyani's domestic help) Sangeeta Richard several times at the consulate. She not only seemed happy and cheerful, but also struck me as being quite well-groomed and educated - not the usual type of domestic worker.

Given the recent history of problems faced by the consulate, I advised Devyani to be careful. I also told her that there were plenty of people around who could misguide Sangeeta and create trouble.

TSJones · Post by **TSJones** » 26 Jan 2014 21:28

I met (Devyani's domestic help) Sangeeta Richard several times at the consulate. She not only seemed happy and cheerful, but also struck me as being quite well-groomed and educated - not the usual type of domestic worker.

Well no, you don't want one of those helping to raise your kids, do you? They expect too much and when they get to places like New York, the Lord only knows what might cross their educated mind. Obviously a great risk. You want one of them beaten, low class types to watch your kids.

You want some fear and respect.

Amber G. · Post by **Amber G.** » 26 Jan 2014 21:34

UlanBatori wrote:But what about Paco,

Choti-si-request - let us go easy on any one related to man's (or woman's) best friend. For many who ever had one of these creatures in the family, that kind of talk may be unnecessary counter-productive.

chaanakya · Post by **chaanakya** » 26 Jan 2014 21:44

TSJones wrote:
I met (Devyani's domestic help) Sangeeta Richard several times at the consulate. She not only seemed happy and cheerful, but also struck me as being quite well-groomed and educated - not the usual type of domestic worker.
Well no, you don't want one of those helping to raise your kids, do you? They expect too much and when they get to places like New York, the Lord only knows what might cross their educated mind. Obviously a great risk. You want one of them beaten, low class types to watch your kids.

Well , Why do you think that a beaten and low class can't really be trusted to watch your kids. What type of class prejudice are you exhibiting? do you seriously think that all illegal immigrants working as domestic slaves in ah so white houses of Amirkhan, getting paid lowly sums and no Bharara types to come to rescue , are all highly educated and well groomed like this

and they groom american kids to tell truth as below:

Amber G. · Post by **Amber G.** » 26 Jan 2014 21:46

TSJones wrote:
I met (Devyani's domestic help) Sangeeta Richard several times at the consulate. She not only seemed happy and cheerful, but also struck me as being quite well-groomed and educated - not the usual type of domestic worker.
Well no, you don't want one of those helping to raise your kids, do you? They expect too much and when they get to places like New York, the Lord only knows what might cross their educated mind. Obviously a great risk. You want one of them beaten, low class types to watch your kids.

TSJ - I am sure you know this already but to point out an obvious mathematical point, being "quite well-groomed and educated" is not necessarily Booleanly opposite to "not the usual type of domestic" worked. It just means.. SK seemed happy, cheerful, quite well-groomed, educated *and* not the usual type of domestic worker in the judgement of PD. Please be careful of pointing out prejudices in others.. they may tell more about our own prejudices..

What I believe PD meant by " great risk" is NOT educated, (not "low class types", as you seem to think) but the exact type which SK turned out to be..

We know very well this is NOT about India vs US thingie , or to argue (which to put it mildly very silly) who is worse.. PD's point was just to tell DK to be careful, which I am very glad, she did and kept most of the SR saga well documented.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 26 Jan 2014 21:54

TSJones wrote:
I met (Devyani's domestic help) Sangeeta Richard several times at the consulate. She not only seemed happy and cheerful, but also struck me as being quite well-groomed and educated - not the usual type of domestic worker.
Well no, you don't want one of those helping to raise your kids, do you? They expect too much and when they get to places like New York, the Lord only knows what might cross their educated mind. Obviously a great risk. You want one of them beaten, low class types to watch your kids. You want some fear and respect.

Beaten low class types are usually Americans. That is why the more cultured types, who know about Diwali and Dussehra have to be brought from India. The less educated ones are more likely to take up such a job because they come to America believing that people in America are actually all wealthy and that the wealth will somehow trickle down to them. The lack of culture is not obvious for a few years. The more educated ones don't need to be maids. They can be indentured labour like Oracle operators.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 26 Jan 2014 22:10

AmberG,
boolianly= Booleanly?

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 26 Jan 2014 22:33

VijayKM wrote:.....

Exclusive! 'What did you achieve by making an example out of Devyani?'

http://www.rediff.com/news/column/exclu ... 140113.htm

i am not good at writing long articles and leave it to others to elaborate.

The sum total of the evidence from Obama's campaign in 2008 and his earlier posture in the US Senate shows a constant tirade against India and Indian systems. The DK arrest was to intimidate the Indian bureaucracy to rollover and heel like a puppy. One marker which was lost in the Niagara of words since DK's arrest was the remarks of some business council leader that Indian bureaucracy* was putting obstacles to implementing the US business agenda in India.

DK was the driveby shooting victim. That is what I would like to tell the Khobargade family. Its not their fault but they became a victim of the US ire towards India.
* So far all that Ombaba has to show for his kowtow trip to India is MOUs and IOUs. He thinks that for the fake IUCNA deal India has to rollover and give baksheesh to keep the US power companies in business. Instead all India does is buy what it wants from where ever given the freedom from the NSG.

What he doesn't get is as a big proponent of Hyde (bound) Act he has foreclosed such trade. It would be dumb to willingly buy US nuke power equipment if the Hyde_Damocles act is there and a Democrat is in the White House to implement it.

Amber G. · Post by **Amber G.** » 26 Jan 2014 22:42

Ramana - ^^Thanks. I corrected the spelling.

TSJ and others - My singular point in the above post, was to possibly help UB and simply to point out the fact that NYC Consulate was frustrated with asymmetric immunity and was also aware (from past experience) of the problems SR types can cause to the smooth functioning of consulates. Of course, a balanced solution is a win-win for both US and India and only losers are those Islamabadi types, or haters who hate India and US and do not want to see progress.

It is unfortunate that even a seemingly harmless quote from a story, (which even at worse, is a point of view of one person and not all Indians or Americans) becomes an excuse for hateful rants and the thread going in the direction of absurd generalizations.

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 26 Jan 2014 23:16

The table quoted by ms. sharmishTha K. is the way it is for a reason - quite a few of the jobs are taken by teenagers to earn some pocket money. If they are not there to help out they would go unfilled and cause some inconvenience to working couples who would want to go out on occasional weekend restaurant romantic dinner, official/social formals where children are not allowed, movies or classical music concerts or theatre where small < 3 yr old children are usually not allowed due to the possibility of their crying, or even occasional late night disco to blow off steam. News paper routes are also taken up by pre-teens where they rise up early and go around on bike or by foot to distribute which is a good way to inculcate some discipline and exercise.

member_28380 · Post by **member_28380** » 26 Jan 2014 23:37

ramana wrote:
VijayKM wrote:.....

Exclusive! 'What did you achieve by making an example out of Devyani?'

http://www.rediff.com/news/column/exclu ... 140113.htm

Couldn't agree more. The "ally" label when it is applied to India means yet another tool to bully India. As I said earlier, the net outcome of DK fiasco is very good for India.

We should be very very skeptical about the Indian Pharma company Ranbaxy not meeting FDA compliance requirements. I'm not saying it is impossible for Ranbaxy to fail. They hire Americans and others well versed, experienced with FDA regulations. More likely trumped up charges against the Indian generic makers to reduce competition with American pharma companies.

The so called discussions about "energy" is again to bully India on so called carbon emissions. And hence the bullying story today in NY Times. India has among the lowest per capita carbon emission, apparently the equivalent of Costa Rica. Bulk of our people live in grinding poverty. It is one thing for India to improve pollution for its own good, it is completely another for Americans hypocritically claiming India is a big polluter.

Replace American here:

There is nothing so bad or so good that you will not find Englishmen doing it; but you will never find an Englishman in the wrong. He does everything on principle. He fights you on patriotic principles; he robs you on business principles; he enslaves you on imperial principles.- George Bernard Shaw

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 27 Jan 2014 00:30

not the usual type of domestic worker.

Ha! There you go, AmberG, PROOF.

RAA Agint, 400% certain.

As for who I want bringing up MY kids, why ... RAMBO, of course. Or Clint Eastwood. Or Jack Nicholson. Matt Dillon would be good, but he's generally too mild.

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 27 Jan 2014 00:46

You missed out Robert De Nero as in Taxi Driver or Uma Thurman in Pulp Fiction.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 27 Jan 2014 00:59

but why? intention of the *gints?

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 27 Jan 2014 02:33

AoA! Read Frederick Forsyth. Like I said, the short story that ends in

And Major *****, a brave man and a patriot, stepped out to meet his Maker.

Maybe Raa Revenge for Rabinder(?) RR4R in short. Think of the damage already done - the Visual Search of Cavities Penetrated, ranging from Access Immigration. Babbar Khalsa. US Embassy in Dilli. AES. Travel Agintz in Dilli. BDS. Mrs. BDS. T3 visa section. Burger Smuggling Serve (BSS). US Diplomatic Bag. Safe Horizons. NYC Polis. Marshall's Service. Manhattan Daphtar-Fed-Attorney. Dapthar-e-Asst Secy-ul-Fog-e-Bottom. See-Ayyeh Debriefing Daphthar. Witless Plotection Ploglam.... And all paid-for by Taxpayer-e-Gleat-Satan.

Considering the damage it has done to the BO administration and SOS Kerry, this is soo much more effective than the Benghazi raid and more than the Tehran Hostage Crisis was to displace Jimmy Carter. Must be all plotted by the T-Party plus RAA to win the next elections for the 'publicans.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 27 Jan 2014 03:35

Err UB you give too much credit. Its a case of "hoisted on own petard" and not any deep cover operations. In this case petard from Middle French Break wind.

Petard comes from the Middle French peter, to break wind, from pet expulsion of intestinal gas, from the Latin peditus, past participle of pedere, to break wind, akin to the Greek bdein, to break wind (Merriam-Webster).

Note it comes from Greek and is close to mamaji ka ghoda!

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 27 Jan 2014 05:33

I bet Al Kuffar ul Worprejji did not know of the existence of this, posted at Rediff.

Of course one feels constrained to ask why X would have a personal letter written by Y, the domestic assistant to X/s sistah Z to said assistant's family Q. Did they intercept personal letters? Hardly a certificate for a generous boss. Date is not given (or is it? I am illiterate..) I presume the "so bad" and the

at the end refer to SR's command of Angreji? Any kind soul pls post a transliteration? May the poo of a thousand camels adorn the grounds around your makaan and give it a fragrance like Karachi!

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 27 Jan 2014 05:45

It was translated on this very thread by a kind member. Somewhere around 135 page? All in all a very good status letter hardly the stuff of later accusations.

Looks like the Richards communicated in Hindi the national language!!!

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 27 Jan 2014 06:33

OK, found it. Copied from post by Chanakya

.I sleep after praying daily. Today we have /Madam has got our own house completely.43rd 2 B Avenue Newyork PMI House. No is 24 and we are on 24th Story. There are Four bedrooms. There are two big bed rooms and one large hall. Down stairs there are two rooms and two rooms are upstairs. My room is separate and is downstairs.Room of elder daughter Ammya is downstairs and next to my room. And this whole family is very nice. I never ever feel I am their servant. Children call me Taayi ( mother’s Sister). They Call me SangeetaTaayi. Madam is also very nice and always laughing. Sir is very understanding and To a large extent he manages the chores and due to that I get lot of time. For 14 /15 daysWe stayed in another hotel which was called beekman Hotel which is on 49th Street 3 Avenue from where two very beautiful buildings are visible. We have shifted to new house on 17/12/12. Now it is 10.10 Night and I am now going to sleep, When Sir arranges SIM for me then I will talk to you on facebook. We will talk on [email protected]. I try very hard to speak in English but don’t know why I am not able to speak and forget. So bad.
Sangeeta.

Roughly tranaslated.
Well looks like that letter has been removed from the account.
Here is the original link. I have saved it on HDD.
http://www.indiatvnews.com/upload/news/ ... letter.jpg

Letter is still at Rediff (see my post above).

shiv: see the danger signals:

To a large extent he manages the chores and due to that I get lot of time. ... Now it is 10.10 Night and I am now going to sleep...

Yup! Sure sign of slavery all right! And we know that she had to get up at 6AM if that, poor thing!

(after a few months of that, DK and hubby decided that SR's hours should be adjusted to reflect her workload...)

I still would like to know who the letter was addressed to, and how it came to be in the possession of DK's sistah. Did DK have the manuscript because it was actually FAXed, or scanned using a cellphone and sent as email attachment? (quite possible, I don't know many desis other than Supreme HQ who actually use a postage stamp, envelope etc any more.)

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 27 Jan 2014 07:02

OMG! This is supposed to be the ENDING of the Forsyth novel I am reading!

Amber G. · Post by **Amber G.** » 27 Jan 2014 07:15

I apologize in advance as I know it was already posted here, but I have not seen the SR's letter linked by UB above (Thanks UB) I do want people who read hindi to see the actual letter, for tone and other inflections. (I am not an expert but I even I can deduce many things about about background about SR (eg where she was raised, where she went to school from the dialect and writing style- she definitely did not learn that hindi in Kerala - most likely schooled near Delhi - may be Rajasthan, Hariyana or UP close by - but not far away in eastern or southern India..).

NO ethical prosecutor would ignore that letter, as it is an extremely effective exculpatory evidence.

Did PB had access to this letter? Was this letter was, by any chance available to PB's office? If it was, it is a VERY SERIOUS matter that this evidence was not weighed by PB. If it was not shared with Grand Jury (or DK's defense council and the judge), I think, there ought to be a formal complain.

Any way, I apologize again but will post the image here:

rgsrini · Post by **rgsrini** » 27 Jan 2014 07:16

UB, I don't know why you still doubt that SR was enslaved by DK. Here is more proof.

Facebook Inc : Who is Sangeeta Richard?

Although much is not known about Sangeeta's personal life, a huge revelation came from the Facebook post of Sharmistha Khobragade, Devyani's sister. According to the post, Sangeeta actually liked working with the Khobragades in New York. Moreover, "Sangeeta had two large, comfortable rooms to herself in a well-appointed apartment with all modern facilities and a separate entrance. She ate the same food as the family or whatever she wished to have. She was given complete discretion in managing the house and was entrusted with the funds for groceries and other living expenses." {if forcing someone to eat the same food and asking them to take care of funds is not slavery, then what is? They also confused her by giving 2 large rooms, and she was suffering everyday to figure out which one she must sleep in to complete the 19 hours of work}

By the way, was Anmol able to locate Sangeeta Richard's facebook posts?

"Her passport and copies of contract documents were in her own custody and not Devyani's. She was provided a mobile phone, had bought an iPad which she often used for Facebook, and could communicate with whoever she wished whenever she wished, in India or New York." {Again, she was forced to keep her own passport and contract documents. She was also forced to talk on the phone with her family and others. Slavery saar. Believe me.}

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 27 Jan 2014 07:22

More about the letter here
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... t-all.html

Shri and Shrimati Richard

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 27 Jan 2014 07:24

Well... serious point now: The problem with that report is that it is by DK's sis. Hardly constitutes unbiased evidence. The handwritten letter is certainly evidence, but I would like to know HOW DK's sis came to have it. That piece of info is critical, to avoid being blindsided. If it turns out that SR's letters were intercepted/censored, that backfires very badly. The Rediff report says the letter was "to her family". Whose family? DK's sis, or to SR's family? If the latter, how can DK's sis have it? Also the letter has no salutation, no date, no place, so we are not seeing Page 1?

OR... the most logical explanation: SR wrote that on a notepad, and gave it to DK to scan and convert to a .jpg attachment to an email sent out from sangeeta.richard at yahoo dot com. It was still in DK's apt in a junk pile, and she got it out and sent it to her sis to post, since she is herself under gag order.

PB types will make a big deal out of the fact that DK has that letter - maybe do another cavity search for opening the Slave's private mail. That would be 35 years for Mail Fraud, Postal Robbery, international fraud....

Unless of course DK got it from the EnnEssAy or asked Mr. Snowden.

From the Daily Mail story posted by shiv:
The heading summary says:

December 2012 letter allegedly written to her sister from New York sees Mrs Richard describe her employer as 'very nice'

But later the story says:

Mrs Khobragade does not say how she came to possess the text in which Mrs Richard described the Khobragade family and Dr Khobragade in particular as ‘very nice.

That's the problem with desi media: they don't ask the essential questions.