Understanding the US - Again

[krisna]

continuing on my post from here viewtopic.php?t=7615&start=10920#p2659357

weaponisng hate is extremly common amongst democrats.

many sanatanis dont understand or blind to this aspect.

particlulary so amongst democrats fans.

The anti Hindutva movemement gets a fillip whenever democats are in power.

Lot of facts are thrown around some are extremely dubious and some flatly wrong incuidngt the media against Hindus.

But well meaning Indian american democrats sort of wail against this but tend to spare the democrats well oiled machinery which causes this in the first place.
They refuse to see it fully.

I call this deep sea in my early post viewtopic.php?t=7355&start=11840#p2658844 as the entire democrat machinery is geared towards destruction of Hindu culture.
Republicans are more open. it is clear and easy for sanatanis. No weaponisation as they are onto it openly.

Interestingly both sides of sanatanis criticise this aspect. But demcrats fans dont see their party indulging in hate on Hindus. they actually defend it and say the ones who do on democrats are fringe foks aka loony left etc . (this sort of excuse not given to the repub side-where they are lumped together )

[Vayutuvan]

As I predicted, AOC is calling for gun control laws.

AOC on Charlie Kirk: "Are we going to do something or are we going to argue over rhetoric? ... We have to pass gun safety legislation and stop this... People can finger point all they want."

[Rudradev]

Why are you expecting him to take India's side? We first generation Indian-Americans (I know you are one and I am one) have some emotional link to our motherland.

You obviously find this challenging to process.

I would not expect him to take India's side. There is a distinction between (1) "not taking India's side" and (2) actively, specifically attacking India and Indian-Americans (in an obvious effort to climb on the Navarro-Lutnick-Miller bandwagon).

The latter does not merely reflect his deliberate choice to take an unprovoked anti-India stance; it is a despicable, racist act of scapegoating Indian-Americans regardless of what emotional connection they have to anything.

That is what Charlie Kirk did, and you are defending it, as below:

Family reunions come under legal immigration too. H1Bs are path to legal immigration as well. Can you say in good conscience that H1Bs haven't been abused (majorly even?)

Yet again, these are Kirk's words.

America does not need more visas for people from India. Perhaps no form of legal immigration has so displaced American workers as those from India.

Has he said a word about "abuse" of the H1B program here? Or are you bringing that up to divert from what he actually said-- which is that the very presence of Indian-origin people in America, through legal means of immigration, is harmful to Americans?

Talking about instances of H1B abuse to deflect from Charlie Kirk's actual statement is a stellar example of

straw man argument

No wonder you are such a fan of the Charlie Kirk/Prager University school of "debating".

Also I supported Khobragade irrespective of her shady doings in India. The US did not have any right to have her strip searched etc. But there were several here on BRF (including you IIRC) as well in my friends' circles who were saying that she got just desserts.

"IIRC", is it? Should be easy enough to link to a post of mine where I said that Khobragade "got just desserts" from being strip searched-- no?

Or is this one more example of Charlie Kirk/Prager University master-debater technique... claim whatever you want without any evidence?

Self-awareness phaa. You want me to go on?

"Go on" doing what? Displaying the magnitude of your self-awareness by defending the anti-India/Indian views of Charlie Kirk on the "Bharat Rakshak" forum?

I can't stop anyone from making a public spectacle of their simping-- so as I said before, simp if you must.

[vera_k]

As I predicted, AOC is calling for gun control laws.

Can't quite fault her on this given the Pakistan-lite situation in the US these days.

[pravula]

The weapon was a bolt action rifle. What kind of gun control? Even the most liberal lawmakers/judges cannot outlaw that…

[gakakkad]

The gun in question is one of the most commonly available rifles . If you can shoot that accurately from that distance with that gun you are a special ops level operator .

[vera_k]

The weapon was a bolt action rifle. What kind of gun control? Even the most liberal lawmakers/judges cannot outlaw that…

Plenty of shades of gray between a handgun and an AR15.

[gakakkad]

https://www.mauser.com/en/MAUSER-18-Standard/80112498

It's marketed as a hunting rifle . You'll have to convince me really hard for me to believe that someone can take aim with that from that distance that accurately. Only one shot was fired . Even with a scope attached.

[Vayutuvan]

Has he said a word about "abuse" of the H1B program here? ...
Talking about instances of H1B abuse to deflect from Charlie Kirk's actual statement is a stellar example of

Those abuses were building up the frustration in the Americans including Indian-Americans. Kirk posted on X. That is the only diefference between him and the Democrats who were underhanded about it by couching in nice Haavaad language, onlee.

No wonder you are such a fan of the Charlie Kirk/Prager University school of "debating".

OK. Now resorting to ad hominem that you are losing the argument.

"IIRC", is it? Should be easy enough to link to a post of mine where I said that Khobragade "got just desserts" from being strip searched-- no?

The sentiment was there in your posts of that time. I never said you said those exact words, did I?

Or is this one more example of Charlie Kirk/Prager University master-debater technique... claim whatever you want without any evidence?

OK. Now resorting to ad hominem that you are losing the argument.

His views are no more anti-India/Indian than Baptist Harris, Pramila Jayapal, Ilhan Omar, Obama (how soon we forget his National Prayer address soon after returning from India where he was the chief guest for Aug 15th), Biden who sent a carrier group patrolling in the Arabian ocean right after he became POTUS, Leon Panetta saying adversaries like China and India (when he was in India addressing Indian policymakers) so on so forth.

I also don't feel any need to wear my emotional connect with India on my sleeve. I will leave it to those who are feeling guilty that they are not giving anything back to their motherland. I do my part. I don't feel guilty for acting in self-interest of my family and my children who are second generation Indian-Americans.

I am for rationalization of the immigration process to the country I am a citizen of.

[Vayutuvan]

https://www.mauser.com/en/MAUSER-18-Standard/80112498

It's marketed as a hunting rifle . You'll have to convince me really hard for me to believe that someone can take aim with that from that distance that accurately. Only one shot was fired . Even with a scope attached.

I don't own a gun nor every fired a gun. Not even touched a real gun. But 200 yard shot to the neck even from a sniper gun seems to be pretty amazing shot.

Probably the shooter was planning to shoot more rounds if they (probably a he) couldn't get C Kirk with the first shot. Looks they got lucky.

[Vayutuvan]

You obviously find this challenging to process.

I like your posts for their insight. I am going to disagree with you on this C. Kirk murder and move on. Peace.

Re Khobragade, I searched your posts . No posts from that time exist. Probably they are never archived or were lost. As far I remember,your first reaction was (paraphrasing here ofc) to blame DK for her corruption in India. I even remember @ramana gaaru requesting you to stand up for DK and India.

[Vayutuvan]

One economic argument is that things would not have remained the same had US tech firms not hired overseas labor, those “American jobs” might not even exist. There are more, but that will do.

This is argument doesn't hold any water. That is all in the past. US hiring overseas labor then was the right decision because it did create these "American jobs".

C. Kirk/Navarro's argument seems to be "Going forward, we don't need any more immigration. We we take it forward from here." They feel that that is the right decision now.

Our harping on how we built American economy is living off of our good deeds. All of us got rewarded properly. We even got naturalized by our own volition. Nobody put a gun to our head. Even now, one can give up the US citizenship and go back to India. OCI guarantees that one can get back one's Indian citizenship provided one renounces US citizenship.

If any of you have skills/expertise that India can use, GoI - of any stripe - will be more than happy to take your help provided you give up everything and go back. If any of you are interested, I can even give a contact or two. Seriously.

[pravula]

The weapon was a bolt action rifle. What kind of gun control? Even the most liberal lawmakers/judges cannot outlaw that…

Plenty of shades of gray between a handgun and an AR15.

A single shot rifle was exactly what the 2nd amendment was all about. Not sure how gun control on pistols and AR-xx is going to help here…

[V_Raman]

Given rise of AI and ensuing massive job losses starting 2027 through the next decade, any immigrant is in trouble. It is not far fetched to think that many Indians would have to seriously consider moving back in a decade or two timeframe.

Driveless cars will be a mass reality and that alone would lead to millions of lost jobs.

Tech moguls promoting universal basic income - it is not that far fetched given the scale of job losses in couple of decades

[A_Gupta]

Retd Major Gaurav Arya has a grim warning for NRIs in the US:
https://youtu.be/XYpto8v747c?si=axf3kwxNc6RVFexn

Trump & co have made two ideas MAGA-mainstream - India has cheated the US, and that Americans are unemployed because Indians stole their jobs. Trump may come and go, but MAGA are going to amplify these ideas. The water is poisoned, so to speak. When you have a mob outside your house, your education, achievements and maybe wealth won't save you. You need to organize politically. Learn from the Jewish experience in Europe and in the US. You are the next Jews.

[Vayutuvan]

Major Gaurav Arya is fear mongering. The US is never going to turn into a Nazi Germany. Never.

[Manish_P]

^ Yes. They are too clever and competent to get it done without getting labelled as one.

Look at their record with the other 'Indians'

[Vayutuvan]

IIhan Omar, while grinning, says Charlie Kirk deserved it and had it coming: "He downplayed George Floyd. and slavery."

"People say he wanted to have a civil debate... It's bullshit."

(she was on Mehdi Hasan show)

[Vayutuvan]

^ Yes. They are too clever and competent to get it done without getting labelled as one.

Look at their record with the other 'Indians'

I disagree.

[Reddy]

https://www.mauser.com/en/MAUSER-18-Standard/80112498

It's marketed as a hunting rifle . You'll have to convince me really hard for me to believe that someone can take aim with that from that distance that accurately. Only one shot was fired . Even with a scope attached.

I don't own a gun nor every fired a gun. Not even touched a real gun. But 200 yard shot to the neck even from a sniper gun seems to be pretty amazing shot.

Probably the shooter was planning to shoot more rounds if they (probably a he) couldn't get C Kirk with the first shot. Looks they got lucky.

I shot a gun at the range. On the first day of the intro session, I was hitting a 5cm circle from 500 meters. Of course, the instructor set up the gun and the sight. From 200 yards, it is not a difficult shot for a trained person. Also, there could be a luck factor; maybe he was aiming at the head or chest and missed it.

[uddu]

Major Gaurav Arya is fear mongering. The US is never going to turn into a Nazi Germany. Never.

Nazi Germany are a subset of what Whites did to the Natives and Blacks also their crime across the world. Whether they will end up as they were or not or when, history will tell. Whites have this ingrained belief that they/their system/their religion are superior to others and that's why they are successful and others are not. Their belief is that only Whites (which they may dilute to say West) are the only people who have and could lead humanity towards progress and betterment. They will never acknowledge the imperialism that their forefathers that helped them to reach here through genocide, mass murder, loot, imperialism, subversion, religious imposition etc etc. Even the most successful people like Elon Musk, Charlie Kirk who are well read and educated all have this belief in them. When that theory fails and when they realize there are others who can better them them, who can show better ways, others can also succeed and do well, they end up with rage, hatred try to destroy them. So when America is not so successful, not so wealthy, not a place desire to live, not a power that can impose their dikats on others, then the rage will come out. Navarro's outrage, Trump's tariffs are tip of the iceberg.

[Manish_P]

...
I disagree.

We can disagree. That is our right.

[Manish_P]

...
Nazi Germany are a subset of what Whites did to the Natives and Blacks also their crime across the world.
...

Uddu ji, Nazism was essentially national socialism for germany, isn't it ?

I was not clear about National Socialism.

So from ChatGPT

Key Characteristics of National Socialism:

Racial Ideology: The belief in the superiority of the "Aryan" race, particularly the Germanic peoples, and the notion of racial hierarchy
Totalitarianism: National Socialism called for an authoritarian state where the government controlled all aspects of life
Militarism and Expansionism: National Socialism promoted the idea of lebensraum ("living space"), which justified territorial expansion
Anti-Communism: The movement opposed Marxism, communism, and Bolshevism, considering them to be a major threat to the nation
State-Controlled Economy: The state oversaw much of the economy, but private property and capitalistic enterprise were largely maintained, especially in key industries aligned with the military or war effort.
Cult of Personality:
Anti-Democracy and Anti-Liberalism:

And then i put in a query 'How would national socialism apply to the USA'

1. Extreme American Nationalism
American Exceptionalism: A U.S. version of National Socialism would emphasize an extreme form of American nationalism. This could manifest as a belief that the U.S. is a superior nation, with an almost religious devotion to the country’s ideals (as defined by the regime). There would be a desire to cleanse the nation of any perceived "foreign" influence, which could include cultural, racial, or political elements seen as un-American.

Patriotism and Militarism: National pride and militarism would be central. National Socialism would encourage mass rallies, national symbols, and a glorification of American military power, similar to the Nazi regime's emphasis on the Wehrmacht.

2. Racial Purity and Ethno-Nationalism

White Nationalism: A core tenet of National Socialism in the U.S. would be white supremacy or the belief in the superiority of white Americans (likely focusing on Anglo-Saxon or European roots). Non-white Americans—African Americans, Latinos, Native Americans, Asian Americans—would be marginalized or targeted as "undesirable."

Anti-Immigration: There would likely be extreme anti-immigrant policies aimed at reducing or eliminating immigration from non-European countries. Non-white immigrants would face aggressive policies, including deportation, forced assimilation, or segregation.

3. Authoritarian Governance and Dictatorship

Führer Principle: The U.S. would likely adopt a dictatorial government centered around a single leader, similar to Adolf Hitler's role in Nazi Germany. The leader would embody the ideals of the nation and would have absolute authority, with all political and social power flowing from them.

4. Militarism and Expansionism

The U.S. could engage in aggressive wars of conquest, potentially targeting neighboring countries or regions deemed to be of strategic importance.

Militarization of Society: The U.S. would likely become a heavily militarized state, with the military playing a central role in everyday life. There would be increased military spending, mandatory service, and possibly the creation of a paramilitary force loyal to the regime.

Aggressive Foreign Policy: The United States would adopt a foreign policy based on military interventionism and dominance over other nations, possibly leading to the creation of an empire. Countries deemed "enemy states" (like communists, non-white countries, or any nation seen as a threat to American racial or cultural purity) would be targeted for military action.


5. Suppression of Political and Social Dissent

Total Control Over Media and Information: The government would tightly control all forms of media, using propaganda to control public opinion and suppress dissent.

Persecution of Political Opponents: Political opposition, whether from left-wing or other non-nationalist groups, would be ruthlessly crushed. Anti-fascist organizations, labor unions, and civil rights groups would be outlawed and their members persecuted.

Secret Police and Surveillance: A strong surveillance state would be established, with government agencies keeping track of citizens' activities.

6. State-Controlled Economy and Corporatism

State-Corporate Partnership: While National Socialism in Germany initially incorporated elements of socialism in its rhetoric, in practice it was closer to a corporate-state alliance where businesses worked closely with the government. In the U.S., this could mean close ties between major corporations (especially military-industrial ones) and the government.

Controlled Economy: The government would intervene heavily in the economy, especially in sectors critical to the military and national interests. While private property would not be abolished, key industries would be either nationalized or heavily regulated.

7. Suppression of Civil Liberties and Social Control

Cultural Control: The regime would enforce strict social norms related to gender, family, and culture. Traditional American values, likely defined by the regime as those aligning with its racial and religious ideals, would be promoted, while non-conformity would be punished.

Religious Control: The U.S. version of National Socialism could incorporate a form of Christian nationalism, where the regime uses Christianity as a tool to reinforce its ideology, although it would be a very specific, exclusionary brand of Christianity aligned with nationalist and racial ideas.

8. Anti-Communism and Anti-Liberalism

National Socialism in the U.S. would be strongly anti-communist, seeing communism as an existential threat to the nation’s ideals. Leftist, progressive, and socialist movements would be outlawed or persecuted.

Liberal democracy would be viewed as weak, corrupt, and incompatible with the vision of a strong, homogenous nation. This would make the U.S. government highly authoritarian and undemocratic.

9. Propaganda and Cultural Control

The government would create a powerful propaganda apparatus, using media, education, and public rituals to enforce loyalty to the regime and its ideals. Symbols, flags, and anthems would be redesigned to align with National Socialist ideology.

The regime would control education, rewriting history to fit its narrative and indoctrinating young Americans into its ideological framework.



Quite interesting

[pravula]

It was simpler when one could post a link to a google search or even link it to here

We know AI agents exist, is there nothing similar? If not, I know what my weekend project is...

[uddu]

Left and Right are two sides of the same coin. These ideologies from Europe are violent and both are repressive in their own ways. We look at them from their own lens and try to fit ourselves into it which we are not (excluding the left in India and the Christian conservatives who adopt White conservatism). We need to come out of their mindset, their ideologies, their way of looking at things. Even the ChatGPTs and AI of today, understand and put out the western viewpoints that it gets from the dominance of western universities, thinktanks and media which even influence our own systems which again is a adoption from the west for us having to be under their imperial control. It's now that shackles are slowly being shed.

[pravula]

Even the ChatGPTs and AI of today, understand and put out the western viewpoints that it gets from the dominance of western universities, thinktanks and media which even influence our own systems which again is a adoption from the west for us having to be under their imperial control.

I mean thats how this current iteration of AI works. It just vomits what it crawls. Prompt engineering and context engineering are a thing...

[uddu]

No one is surprised about these AI, especially even the one from Elon (Grok) whom we think is a fair man, when asked about whether it is pointed out to the books or discovery by Indian intellectuals',researchers and scholars will tell you directly that is is not trustworthy. Even AI of today is discriminatory based on the learning it got from the western created knowledge/viewpoint of the world.

[A_Gupta]

The weakness of thought is in thinking that there is one template for disaster, so that e.g., the US declines by becoming Nazi Germany. The US in its decline will produce its own unique forms of nastiness.

The point about Jews is that they were blamed for all the ills Germany faced after World War 1 and Hitler blamed them for Germany’s defeat.

[uddu]

The weakness of thought is in thinking that there is one template for disaster, so that e.g., the US declines by becoming Nazi Germany. The US in its decline will produce its own unique forms of nastiness.

The point about Jews is that they were blamed for all the ills Germany faced after World War 1 and Hitler blamed them for Germany’s defeat.

There is a religious angle that is never allowed in the open debate space which is the belief of Hitter of betrayal by the Jews, because that willl change the complete narrative. The following documentary give an insight into the history and how even Hindu symbols are deliberately targeted to deviate from their crimes.
The Silence of Swastika | The Biggest Betrayal | English | FULL FILM
Synopsis
Lord Byron wrote “ ' Tis strange - but true; for truth is always strange; Stranger than fiction; if it could be told, … How oft would vice and virtue places change!”

That’s the reality we face today with regard to one of the most sacred, revered and ancient symbols - a symbol of peace, well-being, and auspiciousness - the Swastika - triggers images of hate and horror in the West.

However, is it even credible that an unconscionable and xenophobic leader like Hitler is influenced by a foreign symbol (the Swastika) to develop and execute his political and racial ideologies?

Did history get distorted since the Nazi years? If so, how and by whom? There is more than meets the eye.

Over 2 billion people today consider Swastika sacred and auspicious and are able to distinguish it from the Nazi symbol of hate. Can the West develop the same understanding - much like it distinguishes between the sacred Christian cross and the hateful burning cross?

[Manish_P]

... The US in its decline will produce its own unique forms of nastiness ...

+1 on the nastiness. Not sure about originality or uniqueness.

Most of the nastiness has been done over millennia. It just gets repackaged and rebranded over the cycles.

[g.sarkar]

https://www.rediff.com/news/report/indi ... 250912.htm
Indian Motel Manager Beheaded In US
Seema Hakhru Kachru, September 12, 2025
A 50-year-old Indian-origin motel manager was beheaded in front of his wife and son in Texas following a dispute over a washing machine, police said.
The suspect, a co-worker with a criminal record, has been arrested and charged with capital murder.
The incident took place on Wednesday morning at the Downtown Suites motel in Dallas.
Chandra Mouli 'Bob' Nagamallaiah, originally from Karnataka, was killed after a dispute over a broken washing machine with his co-worker Yordanis Cobos-Martinez, according to the Dallas police department.
Cobos-Martinez, 37, reportedly became enraged when Nagamallaiah asked another person to translate his instructions instead of addressing him directly.
Surveillance footage showed Cobos-Martinez retrieving a machete and attacking Nagamallaiah.
The victim fled toward the motel office where his wife and 18-year-old son were present, but the suspect pursued him, carrying out the assault despite their attempts to intervene.
Cobos-Martine, who has a prior criminal history in Houston, including arrests for auto theft and assault, is being held without bond.
If convicted, he could face life imprisonment without parole or the death penalty.
.....
Gautam
Personally I would not kill anyone in Texas.