West Asia News and Discussions

[Lilo]

Amyrao avare,
Why phor Israel scared of massa normalization with Iran when its the Saudis who must be most concerned ?
I always felt israeli opposition to eyeran is a Saudi concern expressed in a vicarious manner - not to upset the tenuous sunni Jew detente holding between the sunni elites and Jews (with wooling pulled over the sunni aam abdufools - who are all viciously anti-jew at a fundamental level).

Inspite of all Hezbollah nasrallah nuke threats rocket attacks holocaust denials etc - eyeranians are evidently more concerned with their standing in the arap street vis-e-vis Saudis than for any real enmity towards israel and all the wiping Israel off the map bravado every time felt like playing to the internal and external galleries without any iron felt in the words.

Its not israelis who financed the large scale butchering of eyeranians in the Iran Iraq war - it was the GCC sheikhs.
Infact Israel provided covert support to eyeran
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_ ... 93Iraq_war

[member_27444]

Why spend your money when some rich uncle can do it?
Israel profited from supplying arms to Iran, while Iraq was supplied by uncle
Both sides Iran and Iraq lost money and people and went into huge debts and started pumping oil like crazy to get additional revenue. Remember 8$ a barrel and gas @ 0.67 per gallon
Of course everybody benefitted.
Notice how Israel grew in land mass with each war or mini wars.
Absolutely nothing wrong in the realpolitik street smart is the way...
If peace reign in Israeli neighborhood Arabs will swamp Israel with superior breeding skills
In wars Israel survives.
Israel is not like India, if they shed blood and win it they keep it.
The beauty is during Indo Pakistan confrontation after parliament attack Israel advised India to talk to TSP. Peace is good for India...

[habal]

It is sad that the real human rights violators will never face justice in these times,

but they shall be feted, wined & dined at the palace of Sauron.

http://www.prisonplanet.com/saudi-arabi ... story.html

Associated Press reporter Dale Gavlak has been threatened over her involvement in a story which exposed how Syrian rebels were responsible for the August 21st chemical weapons attack after being handed the weapons by Saudi intelligence agents.
Saudi Arabia Threatens to End Career of AP Reporter Over Chemical Weapons Story 230913prince

On August 29th, Mint Press News published an article co-authored by Gavlak (http://www.mintpressnews.com/witnesses- ... ns/168135/) which detailed how FSA militants in Ghouta admitted to reporter Yahya Ababneh that they were behind the August 21st chemical weapons incident, which the United States blamed on President Bashar Al-Assad, having mishandled chemical weapons provided to them by Saudi Arabia.
Although Gavlak did not collaborate on the story in her capacity as an AP correspondent, according to Mint Press News executive director Mnar Muhawesh, within 48 hours Gavlak received threats to “end her career” if she didn’t disassociate herself from the article.

The threats came from a third party who was most likely acting on behalf of Saudi Intelligence chief Prince Bandar bin Sultan, according to Gavlak. Bandar is named in the article as having ordered the transfer of chemical weapons to Syrian rebels in Ghouta.

Gavlak has now been “indefinitely suspended” by the Associated Press with no public explanation from the news agency. It appears that the Saudi threats to “end her career” worked.

Gavlak also “confirmed with several colleagues and Jordanian government officials that the Saudis have been supplying rebels with chemical weapons,” according to Muhawesh.

Note that Gavlak was not threatened with a defamation lawsuit on the basis that her story was inaccurate, she was told that her career would be finished. The story’s entire credibility rests on Gavlak being an accredited AP journalist who has also worked for NPR and the BBC, which is why the people behind the threats were so insistent that Gavlak distance herself from the report.

The original Mint Press News article was published just two days before the United States was widely expected to launch cruise missile attacks on Syria, until the White House backed out at the last minute and President Obama announced he would seek congressional authorization.

[habal]

gives even more credence to the term al-ciaida ..

Al-Qaeda enjoying US Aid.

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/09 ... elieve-it/

[SSridhar]

From Night Watch for the night of September 24,

Syria-UN: Syria's disclosures to the Organization for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons (OPCW) reportedly have exceeded US government expectations. However, they are consistent with the statements by Syrian President Asad. Unidentified US officials have described the Syrian list as surprisingly complete.

Comment: The Syrian disclosures, as described by US officials, suggest that Syrian chemical weapons have remained under strict military control, which is what Asad said. If that proves to be the case, the burden of proof shifts to the rebels {and to those who, as usual, made deliberately wrong statements about WMDs}.

[member_27444]

We now await Sir Johann uvacha

[JE Menon]

Amyrao, kindly end this needling and personal challenges - and not just to Johann.

[habal]

New York Times sinking to a new low, disparages Mother Agnes Mariam, who questioned the veracity of Ghouta chemical attack.

Mother Agnes Mariam is a carmelite nun who worked in Syria for past 2 decades. She knows the nature of it's Govt, the people, and the nation. She has no political agenda and supports right over wrong with no ulterior motives. It's a centuries old tradition of Carmelites to serve without seeking anything in return.

Mother Agnes Mariam is not a Syrian, she is a Lebanese nationality and her father was a Palestinian refugee who survived the 48 war with Israel. She converted to Christianity at age of 19.

The New York Times thus takes it upon itself to discredit this good mother and indulges in a bit of tar slinging at this opportunity. They have even gone ahead and accused her of playing "the christian card" .. aww

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/22/world ... d=all&_r=0

"Mother Agnes, who had lived in Syria for years, has no expertise or training in chemical weapons forensics or filmmaking, and although she was in Damascus at the time of the attacks, she did not visit the sites or interview victims."

"Now, she is lauded by supporters of Syria's president, Bashar al-Assad, for championing narratives that resemble his own, and vilified by opposition activists who suspect the government supports her work as an unofficial ambassador."

"International rights groups see Mr. Lavrov's reference to the work of an untrained nun as a sign of desperation."

" 'The fact that the Russian government is relying on this woman's assessment of what happened just shows the lack of evidence for their case,' said Lama Fakih, a Syria researcher for Human Rights Watch. 'She is not a military expert.' "

"There are other shadows around Mother Agnes. She has helped foreign journalists obtain visas, suggesting trust by the government."

"The widow and two colleagues of Gilles Jacquier, a French journalist killed in Homs last year, published a book in which they suggest that she conspired in a lethal trap set by the government."

"She refused to say who she thought had made the videos she called fakes, or who she thought had carried out the attacks."

"But she suspects that some of the children in the videos had been abducted by fighters from Al Qaeda in Alawite villages more than 150 miles away - a view also voiced by Syrian officials."

"In a baggy brown habit, a white wimple, a black veil and rubber sandals, with a large cross around her neck, Mother Agnes described a devout life that until recently had stayed away from Middle East politics."

"She said the government's brutal crackdowns on peaceful protesters had been concocted by the news media, and she dismissed the slow transformation of the opposition movement into an armed uprising, saying the rebels had rushed to violence."

The Times quoted Swiss reporter Sid Ahmed Hammouche accusing her of complicity in his colleague's death, saying:

"She defends the regime and plays the Christian card. We know very well that Bashar wanted to play the Christian card, and he still does."

Mother Agnes is a heroic figure. She deserves universal praise. She risked her life to report accurately.

By saying she's attired in "a baggy brown habit, a white wimple, a black veil and rubber sandals," The Times disparaged her nobility.

BBC was caught red-handed using an Iraq war video. It claimed it from a Syrian incident it reported. It did so deceptively. It's standard BBC practice.

Anderson Cooper caught red-handed creating fake videos with help of Danny Syrian. Yet does not attract NYT outrage.

this is what she actually said about the Ghouta atrocities claimed by rebels to be a CW attack by regime, but admitted by rebels to be carried out by bandar.

What is the legitimacy of war on Syria, she asked? There is none. "(I)t means that every injury, every death that will occur from this invasion is a crime."

"And that’s why we call for reason, we call for de-escalation of this conflict, we call for the, you know, a kind of cease-fire but a real cease-fire."

She has no hope in the UN. "I think that we are entering in a barbarian era," she said. "It's like another big invasion. It's an invasion (with) nobody to defend us."

A previous article discussed her International Support Team for Mussalaha in Syria (ISTEAMS).

Its preliminary report calls Ghouta's attack a pretext to justify Western military intervention. Its analysis said in part:

"Concerning the alleged Chemical Attack on East Ghouta, the International Support Team for Mussalaha (Reconciliation) in Syria has studied some of the 13 videos nominated by the US intelligence Community to exhibit pieces of evidence to incriminate the Syrian State."

"We have found that three nominated videos present evidence of artificial scenic treatment using the corpses of dead children."

"Studying the whole videotaped documentations available online we find that the civilian population in East Ghouta as presented in those videos is inconsistent with the composition of a real Syrian civilian society."

"There is a flagrant lack of real Syrian families in East Ghouta, as presented by the videos? Who are the children that are exposed in those videos?"

"Where do they come from? Where are their parents? How did they get killed? Where are their bodies buried?"

"We think (based on) the evidences of media manipulation that are shown in this Study and other studies, there is a moral obligation to launch an International investigation and arrest Warrant under the yellow and black notice to find and identify the Syrian children bodies used in a criminal way in the so called Chemical Attacks of East Ghouta."

[RSoami]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-24239779

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/middleeas ... 15713.html

13 Islamist factions refuse to recognise Syrian National Coaliation.
And the entire bullshit about secular democratic opposition created by Unkill`s munnas falls apart. Egg/slap on the face.

[habal]

It can also be a ploy to supply SNC with weapons since they are so 'cut off' oh oh .. from mainstream jihadis.

Jihadis were supplied weapons by Catarrh and bandar anyway. It was the SNC types that didn't have enough stocks.

Now watch as unkil uses this excuse to rush to SNC help as knight in shining armor.

[anmol]

Theft of US weapons in Libya involved hundreds of guns, sources say
by Adam Housley, foxnews.com
September 25th 2013

The recent theft of massive amounts of highly sensitive U.S. military equipment from Libya is far worse than previously thought, Fox News has learned, with raiders swiping hundreds of weapons that are now in the hands of militia groups aligned with terror organizations and the Muslim Brotherhood.

The equipment, as Fox News previously reported, was used for training in Libya by U.S. Special Forces. The training team, which was funded by the Pentagon, has since been pulled, partly in response to the overnight raids last August.

According to State Department and military sources, dozens of highly armored vehicles called GMV's, provided by the United States, are now missing. The vehicles feature GPS navigation as well as various sets of weapon mounts and can be outfitted with smoke-grenade launchers. U.S. Special Forces undergo significant training to operate these vehicles. Fox News is told the vehicles provided to the Libyans are now gone.

Along with the GMV's, hundreds of weapons are now missing, including roughly 100 Glock pistols and more than 100 M4 rifles. More disturbing, according to the sources, is that it seems almost every set of night-vision goggles has also been taken. This is advanced technology that gives very few war fighters an advantage on the battlefield.

"It's not just equipment ... it's the capability. You are giving these very dangerous groups the capability that only a few nations are capable of," one source said. "Already assassinations are picking up in Tripoli and there are major worries that the militias are using this stolen equipment to their advantage. All these militias are tied into terrorist organizations and are tied to (salafists)."

The "salafists" are a jihadist movement among Salafi Muslims. This growing movement in Libya directly endangers the U.S.-supported government, and sources worry that this sensitive equipment is now going to be used by these groups in an attempt to overthrow the government and install a more hardline Muslim leadership.

Some diplomats, who asked to remain anonymous, say they are seeing the kinds of conditions that opened the door to the Sept. 11 Benghazi attack now appearing in Tripoli and across the rest of Libya. They worry that American convoys and western convoys will be attacked using these stolen weapons and vehicles.

"The European ambassador was attacked and we are now commonly seeing robbing and attacking of people in broad daylight. ... This isn't perception, this is actually happening," said one source. The source was referring to an August incident where an escort vehicle for the European Union ambassador was attacked in Tripoli.

To make matters worse, the U.S.-developed training camp on the outskirts of Tripoli has now been taken over by one of these militia groups who are hoarding weapons, sources said. The worry is this camp, abandoned by U.S. trainers within the last month, is being used in preparation for an attack on the new Libyan government.

Meanwhile, special operators told Fox News that training camps throughout eastern Libya continue to train terrorists, and border controls right now around the country are non-existent in most areas.

"The theft of these weapons and the open borders are feeding Al Qaeda and the Muslim Brotherhood and threatens Libya's neighbors as well. It's already bad. ... and now it's really bad."

[ramana]

Maybe they were lost.

[vishvak]

"Already assassinations are picking up in Tripoli and there are major worries that the militias are using this stolen equipment to their advantage. All these militias are tied into terrorist organizations and are tied to (salafists)."
..
opened the door to the Sept. 11 Benghazi attack now appearing in Tripoli and across the rest of Libya. They worry that American convoys and western convoys will be attacked using these stolen weapons and vehicles.
..
are now commonly seeing robbing and attacking of people in broad daylight.
..
and border controls right now around the country are non-existent in most areas.

"The theft of these weapons and the open borders are feeding Al Qaeda and the Muslim Brotherhood

And who donnit.. who could be blamed for lack of oversight only so weapons end up for load-ammo/pull-trigger jihad.

[RamaY]

Islamist rebels in Syria reject National Coalition


UK pledges £100m in aid for Syria

[habal]

Are there any drawings of the 330 mm rocket supposed to be used?

-------------------------------

answering my own question:
Google has a pdf of the supposed rocket. Looks like the potato smashere grenade of the Nazis.

Looks pretty crude for a state army to use!!!

http://www.hrw.org/sites/default/files/ ... iagram.pdf

watch after 8:20 ..

don't let assorted uniforms and fancy dress fool the spectator, these are rebels

[Austin]

Bill Clinton Offers Rare US Praise for Putin

Former President Bill Clinton offered some rare words of praise Wednesday from a US politician about Vladimir Putin, describing the Russian president as “very smart,” “brutally blunt” and true to his word.

“Mr. Putin … he’s very smart,” Clinton said in an interview with CNN talk show host Piers Morgan. “And, remarkably, we had a good, blunt relationship.” Asked to describe just how blunt that relationship was, Clinton replied: “Brutally blunt,” indicating he preferred this level of frankness in private conversations.

Putin took over as acting Russian president on January 1, 2000 following the surprise New Year’s Eve resignation of the late Russian leader Boris Yelstin, and was formally elected for his first term two months later. Clinton, who left office in January 2001, worked with him as head of state for a year.

Asked if Putin ever reneged on a promise, Clinton was categorical: “He did not.”

“He kept his word on all the deals we made,” Clinton said.

Broadcast of the interview came as some US officials publicly question whether the United States should trust Putin – both the man and his administration – enough to invest fully in a new Russia-US push to destroy chemical weapons in Syria and sponsor negotiations to end the two-year conflict there.

The joint effort staved off what appeared to be imminent US military action in Syria earlier this month, but many US politicians have voiced skepticism on whether it will bear fruit.

“We do have to believe it” will help, Clinton said of the latest Russian-US effort. “We just have to see what happens and make the most of what happens,” he said, adding that “it would be a terrible mistake” not to explore viable opportunities for resolving the Syrian crisis peacefully.

[Philip]

Syria crisis: In sacred Maaloula, where they speak the language of Christ, war leads neighbours into betrayal

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world ... 39610.html
Muslims and Christians had lived together in this town of churches and caves. Now it is empty

Robert Fisk

The Diab family can never return to Maaloula. Not since the Christians of this beautiful and sacred town saw their Muslim neighbours leading the armed Nusrah Islamists to their homes. Georgios remembers how he peered over his balcony and saw Mohamed Diab and Ossama Diab and Yasser Diab and Hossam Diab and Khaled Turkik Qutaiman – all from Maaloula – walking in the street with men whom he said were dressed in Afghan-Pakistani clothes. “One of them had a Kalashnikov rifle in one hand and a sword in the other,” he says, shaking his head in disbelief.

Twenty years ago, identical tragedies destroyed the villages of Bosnia. Now they are being re-enacted in Syria. “We knew our Muslim neighbours all our lives,” Georgios says. He is a Catholic. “Yes, we knew the Diab family were quite radical, but we thought they would never betray us. We ate with them. We are one people.

“A few of the Diab family had left months ago and we guessed they were with the Nusra. But their wives and children were still here. We looked after them. Then, two days before the Nusra attacked, the families suddenly left the town. We didn’t know why. And then our neighbours led our enemies in among us.”

It is a terrible story in this most beautiful of towns, with its 17 churches and holy relics and its great cliff-side caves. Now the fighters of Jabhat al-Nusra – a rebel group with links to al-Qa’ida – are surviving in the caves and shooting down at the Syrian soldiers in Maaloula’s streets with Russian sniper rifles. You have to run from house to house, and one bullet smashed the windscreen of a parked car scarcely 10 metres from the balcony on which Georgios was telling his awful story. Up the road, a mortar round – apparently fired by Nusrah men – has torn a hole in the dome of a church. The Syrian army says it has driven the Islamists from Maaloula, which is technically true; but to leave the town, I had to ride in the back of a military armoured vehicle. It is not a famous victory for anyone.

Not one of the 5,000 Christian residents – nor a single member of the 2,000-strong Muslim community – has returned. Maaloula is, almost literally, a ghost town. Only Georgios and his friend Hanna and a few other local Christian men who joined the “national defence” units to defend their homes, are left. At least 10 Christians were murdered when the Nusra militia began its series of attacks on Maaloula on 4 September, some of them shot – according to Hanna – when they refused to convert to Islam, others dispatched with a knife in the throat. And there is a terrifying historical irony about their deaths, for they were slaughtered within sight of the Mar Sarkis monastery, sacred to the memory of a Roman soldier called Sergius who was executed for his Christian beliefs 2,000 years ago.

Hanna says that before the war reached Maaloula this month, both Christians and Muslims agreed that the town must remain a place of peace. “There was a kind of coexistence between us,” Georgios agrees. “We had excellent relations. It never occurred to us that Muslim neighbours would betray us. We all said ‘please let this town live in peace – we don’t have to kill each other’. But now there is bad blood. They brought in the Nusra to throw out the Christians and get rid of us forever. Some of the Muslims who lived with us are good people but I will never trust 90 per cent of them again.”

Could there be better evidence of Nusra’s desire – and that of almost every side in this conflict – to sectarianise the war? Georgios joined his armed government unit when Nusra gunmen returned two days later – on 6 September – and now carries a huge 75mm Czech pistol strapped to his chest. He fought alongside the Syrian army’s 3rd Armoured Division, which took three days to recapture Maaloula because, the soldiers say, they could not risk damaging the churches and shrines. And therein lies a major problem. A Syrian Second Lieutenant called Talal told me that the caves had now been surrounded and that the Nusra snipers would run out of supplies. But if this is true – given the number of bullets cracking down the streets during my visit – the insurgents still seem to have plenty of ammunition.

The problem, of course, is that there’s a simple military solution to Maaloula’s present agony: for the army to use shellfire from their Russian-made tanks to blow the caves to pieces. But that would only continue the destruction of the heritage of Maaloula, whose people still speak Aramaic, the language which scholars believe was spoken by Christ. Only five months ago, in an untouched Maaloula, I stood next to the church of Mar Taqla while a Catholic girl recited the Lord’s Prayer’s in Aramaic. No prayers now.

It is impossible, amid the bullet-whizzing streets of the town today, talking to armed Christians whose emotions are incendiary, to gather up the full – even accurate – story of the Maaloula tragedy. They say that the church of Mar Taqla has been badly damaged, the altarpiece smashed, Byzantine pictures destroyed, but even Syrian troops will not approach the monastery today. When they briefly tried to help some nuns return after the battle, they told me, Nusra snipers cut them down, many shot in the legs as they helped the nuns to run away.

Almost every soldier I met had been wounded. Lt Talal, who comes from Sweida, had been hit in both legs during the battles. Two Syrian soldiers were hit on Monday, one in the legs, another in the shoulder. From an earlier skirmish with Nusra men – apparently with another Diab brother – Georgios had been shot in the arm, legs and ribs, and one of his fingers had been torn off by a bullet.

The Nusra men seemed to take a perverse pleasure, not only in destroying Christian icons, but household beds and chairs, perhaps in a search for cash.

Even the exact number of deaths cannot be confirmed. But it is impossible to believe, after these sectarian wounds, that Maaloula can return as it was, a place of worship for Orthodox and Catholic but also, intriguingly, for Shia Muslims, many of them Iranians who used to visit the town to see its monasteries and Christian shrines.

A Syrian general tried to explain to me later that I was not witnessing a civil war, merely a “war against terror” – the stock government quotation – and that Syrians were not sectarian. “In Latakia, we have 200,000 Sunni Muslim refugees living among Christians and Alawites and there are no problems between them,” he said. This is true. And outside Maaloula, several civilians claimed that the Nusra forces which invaded the town – and which numbered 1,800 men, according to the Syrian army – also killed local Muslims.

For several days, the Nusra gunmen held out in the wreckage of the Safir Hotel before taking to the caves. The Christians are now all refugees, some in the Christian Bab Touma district in the old city of Damascus, others in Lebanon. But some statistics, however loosely gathered, speak for themselves. Sixty per cent of the Christians of Syria are now believed to have fled their country.

[ramana]

BillyC wants to ensure HC will have good atmospherics in 2016.

[ramana]

Gp in Pioneer

ReDrawing the map of Greater Middle East

It looks like greater Israel.

Redrawing the map of a Greater Middle East
Friday, 27 September 2013 | G Parthasarathy |

In the 1980s, Israeli analyst Oded Yinon argued that the entire Arabian Peninsula is a natural candidate for dissolution. Current developments in Syria, Libya, Iraq and Turkey show that he may have been eerily right

Israel’s Armed Forces invaded Lebanon in 1982, with the aim of creating a buffer for the security of its northern borders. Within months, the Palestine Liberation Organization led by Yasser Arafat and his armed cadres were forced to leave Lebanon, the Syrian Air Force was virtually wiped out in air battles with the Israeli Air Force, and Syrian forces had to be withdrawn from Lebanon. In the years following the Israeli action, Lebanon was engulfed by ethnic and sectarian conflict. Israel’s first invasion of Lebanon was not without its costs. The invasion saw the emergence of Hezbollah as a powerful Iranian-backed militia, which has in subsequent conflicts, seriously challenged the might and avowed invincibility of Israel’s Armed Forces.

Virtually coinciding with the Israeli attack on Lebanon, Oded Yinon, an Israeli Government analyst came out with a plan for redrawing the boundaries of what the Americans were to later describe as the ‘Greater Middle East’, extending from Pakistan to Turkey. While advocating a long-term plan for the annulment of Israel’s Camp David Accord with Egypt and its destabilisation, Yinon envisaged “total dissolution of Lebanon” as a precedent for the dissolution of Syria and Iraq. Syria, he argued, would fall apart into a Shia Alawite dominated state along its coast, a Sunni state in the Aleppo area, another Sunni state near Damascus, hostile to the Sunni north, and the Druzes with a state in “our Golan” and in the Hauran and northern Jordan.

With the bloody Iran-Iraq conflict triggered by Saddam Hussein and encouraged by the Reagan Administration then gathering momentum, Yinon held: “In Iraq, a division into Provinces along ethnic/religious lines as in Syria, in Ottoman times, is possible. So, three or more states will exist around the three major cities of Basra, Mosul and Baghdad. Shia areas in the south will separate from the Sunni and Kurdish North. It is possible that the present Iranian-Iraqi confrontation will deepen this polarisation. The entire Arabian Peninsula is a natural candidate for dissolution due to internal and external pressures”. In the years that have followed the Yinon analysis, the Greater Middle East has witnessed traumatic and bloody conflicts and internal turmoil, as civilisational, religious and sectarian rivalries have torn societies and nations apart.

Iraq’s Saddam Hussein brought misery and suffering to his own people after his ill-advised invasion of Kuwait, which followed the war he imposed on Iran with American support. After fellow Arabs, notably Syria and Egypt, joined the Americans to pulverise his armed forces and impose crippling economic sanctions in 1991, Saddam Hussein’s Iraq was torn apart in a second American-led invasion. This invasion in 2003 ended minority Sunni domination of Iraq and replaced it with a Shia- dominated Government. No less than 1,33,000 Iraqis perished in this second invasion. The new Shia-dominated dispensation is, however, not only facing de facto Kurdish separation in the north, but also a bloody insurgency by the Sunni-minority, duly backed by its Gulf Arab neighbours.

Libya was, thereafter, invaded by Nato forces from France and the UK, backed by the Americans, for regime change, getting the erratic but secular Muammar Gaddafi replaced by Islamist-oriented leaders. Libya has not only become a focal point for Al Qaeda activity, but also appears headed towards being administered virtually as two separate entities — Tripolitania and Cyrenaica.

The much touted Arab Spring which was supposed to usher in a new era of democratic change exposed the harsh reality that countries with no experience of democratic traditions and institutions cannot be transformed overnight into vibrant democracies, merely because of demonstrations by an urbanised and educated middle class. Nowhere has this emerged more clearly than in Tunisia and Egypt, where elections produced rulers with Islamist inclinations, who are not exactly votaries of pluralism and modernism. In Egypt, an elected Islamist President has since been overthrown by a largely secular military, which has a tradition of not only dominating political life, but also wielding vast economic clout. It is noteworthy that the monarchies in the Gulf, Morocco and Jordan, with long-standing administrative and traditional political structures, were able to not only survive demonstrations, but emerge more confident of being able to deal with public discontent, than those authoritarian rulers who were forced to succumb to pressures for democratic transformation.

The Arab Spring, however, has had the most destabilising impact caused by demonstrations against the secular and modern minded, but brutally authoritarian regime of Syrian President Bashar al-Assad. An estimated 1,20,000 Syrians have perished in the conflict, which has not only widened the Shia-Sunni rift across the Muslim world, but has also unexpectedly led to the beginnings of Russian-American cooperation, to moderate the American propensity for regime change through military intervention. Syria has been forced to forego its chemical weapons — a development pleasing to the heart of Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, whose Air Force had earlier effectively destroyed Syria’s clandestine nuclear weapons-related facilities. The bloody civil war in Syria, however, continues.

Sunni elements in Syria remain divided between the ‘moderate’ Free Syrian Army which is being armed and backed by the US and its Nato allies, while more extremist Islamist elements are being backed by Saudi Arabia, Qatar and Turkey. The Assad regime, which depends heavily on Russian diplomatic and military support, continues to receive steadfast backing from key Shia allies — Iran, Iraq and the Hezbollah. Unless a UN-brokered peace can be arranged, which presently appears unlikely, Syria appears inevitably headed for a partition along sectarian, ethnic and religious fault lines.

This would be continuation of a trend where Sudan has been partitioned on religious/ethnic lines and Iraq’s Shia-Sunni-Kurdish fault lines have been accompanied by fears of a tacitly US-backed Kurdish separatism. Moreover, after doors for its entry to the European Union were irrevocably shut, Turkey appears to be adopting a more assertive role in the ‘Greater Middle East’. An autonomous Iraqi Kurdistan absorbing Turkey’s insurgent Kurds, with its American-installed oil pipelines traversing through Turkey, would be welcomed by Ankara.

India has quite rightly frowned on separatism in Iraq and built bridges to the new dispensation there. Stability in its neighbouring Gulf region, with its vast energy resources and where six million Indians reside, remains its key area of interest. India has also opposed American/Nato military intervention in Syria, which could destabilise its Gulf neighbourhood. It is really for the people of the ‘Greater Middle East’ to determine their destinies, without destabilising meddling by outsiders.

The last line is wise words but when the locals ally with outside powers to gain dominiance over other locals its colonialism redux.
This is exactly how the British EIC came ot meddle in India. If you take the long view the Greater Muddle East fracturing along religious and ethnic lines is to break the facade of Nasserite Arab unity that stared at Israel since its founding. The big boy still left standing will be Persia which has its ethnic Kurds.

[JwalaMukhi]

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142 ... d_newsreel

Iranian President Hasan Rouhani broke from his government's questioning of the Holocaust, telling American media editors that "the Nazis committed a massacre against the Jewish people and we condemn that."

"The massacre of Jews by the Nazis is condemnable. We never want to sit side by side with a Nazi," Mr. Rouhani said.

There are no permanent enemies, there are only permanent interests.
Wasn't Syria an active supporter of US during operation desert storm against Iraq?
Lots of good lessons to be learnt. Policy guided by practicality and permanent interests will bode good for all, including India.

[Kati]

Iranian nuclear bomb or Mullahs' cry to annihiliate Israel are not Israel's real threats.
Israel's real threat is Iranian call for peace and renounce nuclear arsenal........
For the last one month Israel is horrified to see Rouhani's peace proposals. May be
just sugar-coated words, and time will tell the real intent, but such a peace
proposal is giving Israel the real nightmares - the very thought of int'al pressure to
give up nuclear arms. Unkil is also in a weak spot for the time being. it'll be interesting
how things will turn if such Iranian charm offensive continues.

[anmol]

Exclusive: McCain Hires Controversial Syria Analyst Elizabeth O'Bagy
by GORDON LUBOLD, thecable.foreignpolicy.com
September 27th 2013

Sen. John McCain has hired Elizabeth O'Bagy, the Syria analyst in Washington who was fired for padding her credentials, The Cable has learned. She begins work Monday as a legislative assistant in McCain's office.

O'Bagy was a young but well-respected adviser at the Institute for the Study of War and had emerged quickly as an important voice among those arguing in favor of intervention in Syria. McCain and others had cited her work publicly before her nascent reputation collapsed when it was discovered that her claims to having a combined masters/PhD were false and that in fact she had not yet defended her thesis.

"Elizabeth is a talented researcher, and I have been very impressed by her knowledge and analysis in multiple briefings over the last year," McCain told The Cable in a statement. "I look forward to her joining my office." McCain's office said there would be no further comment on the matter.

O'Bagy quickly emerged as a lead analyst on Syria after McCain praised an op-ed she had written in the Wall Street Journal, which argued that moderate rebels were able to keep U.S.-supplied weapons from falling into the hands of extremist groups. McCain, who has been the leading voice in Congress for arming moderate rebels, called O'Bagy's analysis "important" during a hearing in September about possible U.S. military intervention in Syria.

At the hearing, McCain asked Secretary of State John Kerry whether he agreed with O'Bagy's conclusions about the Syrian opposition. "I agree with most of that," Kerry replied.

O'Bagy, who is 26, was abruptly shown the door a week later, after it was confirmed that she had padded her academic credentials with a PhD from Georgetown University. She also failed to disclose in her op-ed that she was part of a pro-Syrian rebel political group, the Syrian Emergency Task Force. {group that was getting money from State Department}

O'Bagy claimed that she was a contractor for the task force, not an employee, and didn't participate in any of the group's lobbying efforts. But she acknowledged helping the group set up a meeting between McCain and commanders with the Free Syrian Army.

Several media organizations reported that O'Bagy was enrolled in a PhD program, but a subsequent investigative report by ThinkProgress found that was not the case. "Either O'Bagy was at one point enrolled a PhD program and dropped out, or she has been lying the entire time," the site reported.

Not exactly the standard start to a Senate career.

[svinayak]

There are no permanent enemies, there are only permanent interests.
Wasn't Syria an active supporter of US during operation desert storm against Iraq?
Lots of good lessons to be learnt. Policy guided by practicality and permanent interests will bode good for all, including India.

One corps from Syrian Army and One corps from the Egyptian army joined the US forces during the first Gulf war 1991.

[pankajs]

Their own men

SYRIA’S exiled opposition has long struggled to influence the course of the civil war. Its ambitions may just have been dashed for good by those who do the actual fighting. On September 24th eleven of Syria’s strongest rebel brigades jointly announced their rejection of the Syrian Opposition Coalition (SOC), the quarrelsome but broadly moderate Istanbul-based dissident leadership that is recognised by Western and Gulf governments. Syrians outside the country and those picked by foreigners have no authority, said a rebel spokesman. Moreover, he declared, Syria’s revolution must be pursued “within a clear Islamic framework”, based on sharia law as the sole source of legislation.

New associations come and go in Syria, but this one includes the most powerful and active front-line forces, ranging from moderate Islamists like Liwa al-Tawheed, which previously pledged allegiance to the coalition’s military wing, the Supreme Military Command, to jihadist groups such as Jabhat al-Nusra, an al-Qaeda affiliate. The decision by groups such as Tawheed to partner with radical Islamists guts the military command, leaving it with few groups it can claim to control.

Islamist fighters of varying hues have grown to dominate Syria’s mosaic of rebel groups. Outside support for jihadists, which comes mostly from private donors and networks in the Gulf, has proven more reliable than the stop-start flow that foreign governments direct to milder-mannered, Western-approved rivals. Even some vetted fighters have long espoused the creation of an Islamic state, but quietly so as not to worry non-Islamist brothers-in-arms—let alone Syria’s myriad non-Sunni Muslim minorities. The decision to go public is in part down to Egypt, says one rebel man. The coup that ousted Muhammad Morsi, a Muslim Brother, showed that there is nothing to gain from paying lip service to democracy.

Western powers will now find their proxies have less influence than ever. In the month since America backed away from missile strikes to punish Syria’s regime for using chemical weapons, the SOC has become increasingly irrelevant. Strikes would have bolstered moderates, including Selim Idriss, a defected general who heads the military command. The ensuing deal between Russia and America whereby Syria’s regime must hand over its chemical weapons was perceived as coming at the expense of the rebels.

The opposition schism renders the prospect of a negotiated end to the conflict in the near future flimsier still. But the new joint fighting force could act as a bulwark against the Islamic State of Iraq and al-Sham (ISIS), an al-Qaeda group manned largely by foreign mujahidee n that is more radical than Jabhat al-Nusra. ISIS did not sign the statement, and has faced growing hostility as it seeks to expand its influence.

[pankajs]

Erdogan’s Syria frustrations

On September 5, 2012, Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan told CNN's Christiane Amanpour that the United States "lacked initiative" in dealing with the crisis in Syria. "There are certain things being expected from the United States. Obama has not yet catered to those expectations," he said. A year later Erdogan finds himself at sharper odds with the U.S. administration, whose decision to head off planned strikes on Syria has left him in a lonely spot both at home and in the region.

To Erdogan, a strong advocate of regime change, anything short of Syrian President Bashar al-Assad's ouster carries the risk of further weakening his hand domestically and regionally. Only a few years ago Turkey was praised as a non-sectarian actor mediating regional conflicts through its access to various actors from Iran to Israel, Hamas to Fatah. The Syrian conflict, however, has dealt a blow to its image as a regional superpower pursuing non-sectarian foreign policy. Turkey's active support for the Sunni-majority Syrian opposition in what has become a largely sectarian civil war has projected Turkey as a Sunni power with a sectarian regional agenda, thus making it appear less impartial and leading to a slide in its regional influence. With the Saudis taking over the Syria portfolio from Turkey and Qatar and the establishment of the recent Russian-U.S. deal, Turkey has been marginalized in regional and international efforts to tackle the Syrian crisis.

Adding to that marginalization is Turkey's stance vis-à-vis the Egyptian coup. Turkey has become one of the fiercest critics of the Egyptian army's removal of the country's first democratically elected president, Mohamed Morsi. Turkey's regional and international attempts to delegitimize the army-backed interim government will make it significantly more difficult for Turkey to cooperate with the new Egyptian government on regional matters. Saudi Arabia's and Qatar's support for the interim government will only deepen Turkey's regional isolation.

The Syrian civil war has also posed domestic challenges for the Justice and Development Party (AKP) government. Turkey hosts more than 400,000 Syrian refugees, which incurs not only financial costs but also presents political dilemmas for the Turkish government in addressing the ethnic and sectarian balance within its own society. Hatay, Turkey's southernmost province with a sizable Arabic-speaking population of which many are members of Assad's Alawite sect, hosts Syrian refugee camps and has been the scene of sectarian tensions. Many of Hatay's Alawites rally behind Assad while Sunni villages and mainly Sunni refugees often support the predominantly Sunni opposition. Tensions reported between the Sunnis and Alawites in Hatay have been a stark reminder that Turkey is not immune to the raging sectarian violence next door.

The ongoing fighting in Syria has also posed security challenges for Turkey. Assad's forces downed a Turkish jet in June 2012, prompting Turkey to request NATO protection. Most recently, Turkish warplanes shot down a Syrian helicopter after it crossed into Turkish airspace. Since 2011, 74 people in Turkey have been killed by stray bullets and shells, and dozens have been wounded in Syria-related border violence.

Yet, for Turkey the most dangerous fallout of the Syrian civil war has been the resurgence of the Kurdistan Workers' Party (PKK). In retaliation for Turkey's support for the Syrian opposition, Assad gave a free hand to the Democratic Union Party (PYD), the Syrian offshoot of the PKK based in northern Syria, by allowing it to operate unencumbered, recruit new fighters for its campaign against Turkey, and undertake a pseudo-governmental role in Kurdish regions of Syria. Turkey's subsequent concern over the advance of the PYD on Turkey's southern border was one of the major factors that triggered its so-called "Imrali Process," in which it held peace talks with the PKK's jailed leader Abdullah Ocalan. The talks attempted to convince the PKK to lay down arms and withdraw from Turkish soil. However, the PKK recently suspended the pullout of its fighters from Turkey, blaming the government for failing to take steps agreed upon in negotiations.

In another attempt to address the challenges posed by the Syrian conflict that complicate Turkey's position at the border, Turkey sought to use its leverage over President of Kurdistan Regional Government Masoud Barzani and the opposition Syrian National Council (SNC) to marginalize the PYD within the Syrian opposition and among Syrian Kurds. As part of that strategy, Turkey promoted the Kurdish National Council (KNC), the Syrian opposition group sponsored by Barzani, by encouraging it to join the Syrian opposition. Turkey has also turned a blind eye to weapons transfers from its territory to al Qaeda-linked al-Nusra Front, hoping to boost the Syrian opposition and keep the PYD in check.

The Syrian civil war, however, has proven that Barzani has little influence over Syrian Kurds; the PYD is too strong to be marginalized, and the prospect of a peaceful resolution to Turkey's Kurdish issue is slim without directly addressing the PYD. So, Turkey shifted course. It now seems to have adopted a policy of engagement with the PYD, continued empowerment of the KNC, and marginalization of al-Nusra. After turning down PYD appeals for dialogue in 2012, Turkey reached out to the head of the party, Saleh Muslim, and invited him to Turkey to communicate its concerns about the chaos in northern Syria and to encourage the PYD to join the Syrian opposition. Turkey also played an important role in what may prove a significant breakthrough for the rebels. The KNC has recently joined the Syrian National Coalition (an alliance that grew out of the Syrian National Council) after more than a year of fraught negotiations. In a departure from its warm treatment of al-Nusra, during its meeting with Muslim, Turkey took an openly critical stance against the Islamist group.

The constant shifts and fine-tuning in Turkey's Syria policy reflect Turkey's struggle to deal with the threats of a refugee crisis and a resurgence in Kurdish militant activity sparked by a situation over which Turkey has little control. Border clashes, security threats, the prospect of an autonomous Kurdish enclave in northern Syria, increasing societal tensions in towns close to the Syrian border due to refugee flows, and the financial toll of those refugees have all increased domestic pressure on the AKP's Syria policy. Once considered the regional superpower mediating conflicts, building bridges between the West and the Middle East, Turkey has now found itself marginalized in regional affairs. Turkey's disappointment with its Western allies for not taking forceful action in Syria has only added to its frustration.

Faced with the multiple domestic and regional headaches that the Syrian conflict poses, Turkey has been seeking a swift regime change in Syria to end its troubles. But therein lies Turkey's dilemma. The sectarian nature of the conflict and the fighting among different segments of the opposition point to the inconvenient truth: Assad's departure will not end the bloodshed, and it will take years before there is a stable, peaceful Syria. Judging from Turkey's record, it might not be far-fetched to expect another shift in Turkey's Syria policy -- one that would join U.S. President Barack Obama in promoting a controlled transition rather than a full-fledged regime change.

[chaanakya]

ShyamD not posting any more here? what happened?

[Kati]

^^^^
May be ShyamD-ji is now in Syria, fighting on the ground....
but which side I wonder......

[Philip]

With such dramatic convolutions,who knows,Assad may one day regain favour with the US in its "fight against terror",the hard core Islamist jihadis.But these entities have their own side support in the oily bazaar of the Middle-East and Gulf autocracies,who are directing them abroad at other nations to keep their monarchist regimes stable at home.Sadly,the US opened Pandora's box in the Muslim world ,sowed the Arab Spring wind and is now reaping the whiorlwind

[pralay]

ShyamD not posting any more here? what happened?

Chanakya ji, Kyun jale pe namak chidak rahe ho?

[Philip]

To understand Erdogan's problems read this:

End of empire: The glory of the Ottomans - and the devastation wreaked since they lost power

For centuries, the Ottoman Empire peaceably ruled much of the civilised world. Now, its former lands are up in flames. As the BBC launches a major new documentary series, Peter Popham asks: where did it all go wrong?

Peter Popham
Sunday 29 September 2013

There are few things more profoundly dead than an ex-empire, but around the time that the Soviet empire came apart at the seams, I became aware that the ghosts of a much older one – that of the Turkish Ottomans – were still haunting its former domains.

It was in the spring of 1990. All Europe's communist dominoes had already fallen over, the most recent being Romania, whose dictator Ceausescu had just been executed. The only one left standing was tiny, reclusive Albania. Every half-serious newspaper in Fleet Street wanted a bite of it, but foreigners were barred from entering – not only journalists, but even ordinary tourists. The only outsiders admitted were archaeology enthusiasts who were occasionally permitted to undertake study tours.

And so it came to pass that the next scheduled archaeological study tour was strangely over-subscribed. Of the 20 or so who signed up for it – claiming a range of occupations from farmer to advertising copywriter to ballet dancer – almost all were journalists, as our unlucky tour guide soon discovered. The exceptions were a clean-cut couple who turned out to be professional Christians, and four Pakistanis from Dewsbury. All six shared a common mission: to restore the faith – variously Christian and Muslim – to atheist Albania.

I had no idea that Islam had got as far into Europe as Tirana, let alone that its embers had survived being stamped on for many years by Enver Hoxha, Albania's communist dictator. But it was in Albania's grim and impoverished streets that I got my first whiff of the Ottomans: the beguiling reek of Turkish tobacco and coffee, the pungent kick of slivovitz. What we wrote about were the country's modern hallmarks, the horrible housing estates and ubiquitous concrete bunkers. But what took one by surprise and lingered in the memory were the intricate old lanes of a town such as Gjirokaster, the compact but handsome old stone mosques built, one learnt, by colonisers from Istanbul for whom Albania was just as dismal a backwater as it was for us.

Albania was on the frontier, as much for the Ottomans as for the Russians and later for the EU. And as Eastern Europe slowly emerged during the 1990s from its communist purdah, one discovered that the unique fragrance of Ottoman civilisation lingered much closer to home. Greece, every corner of disintegrating Yugoslavia, Bulgaria, Romania, even Ukraine – all had been under Turkish control for centuries. They had been conquered and colonised by the Ottomans – by Suleiman the Magnificent (born, 1492; died, 1566) to be precise – before the English had gone anywhere.

And what makes us scratch our heads in puzzlement about that vanished empire is that, although the Ottomans were Muslims, and the figure we think of as the Muslim pope, the caliph, was identified with Istanbul, large populations of Christians and Jews continued to live and prosper right across the Ottoman Empire.

After 150,000 Jews were expelled from Spain in 1492, they were formally invited to make new homes inside the Ottoman Empire. True, the infidels faced higher taxation than the faithful, but for centuries, the Ottoman version of Islamic rule was distinguished by pluralism and peaceful coexistence. The now sadly beleaguered and diminished Christian communities of Syria and Egypt and Iraq bear witness to that.

Suleiman the Magnificent was a warrior, artist and a poet (Alamy) Suleiman the Magnificent was a warrior, artist and a poet (Alamy)
That is one of the reasons why BBC2's new series, The Ottomans – Europe's Muslim Emperors, fronted by Rageh Omaar, has such a timely feel. We know so little about this extraordinary dynasty; a single family ruling an empire that at its peak encompassed half of Europe and most of north Africa and that lasted from before the Peasants' Revolt to the age of aviation – and most of what we know is wrong.

We vaguely recall that old Ottoman bogeyman: the savagery of the moustachioed Turk, the two Sieges of Vienna when the shadow of the prophet fell across the whole of Europe. Just as vaguely we know of the luxurious, exotic aspect, the emperor's harem with his Christian concubines, the hookah, that whole lush, sensual, decadent world summed up by the single word "Oriental". But the far richer and more interesting reality eludes us.

The Turks came swarming across the Anatolian plain like so many other fierce, rootless, horse-borne central Asian nomads both before and after them. But when these predators got down off their horses and started to learn new things from the people who resisted them, they began to amount to more than the destruction they wrought. In the case of the Turks, they converted to Islam then ran up against the Byzantines in what was then called Constantinople, the eastern arm of the divided church of Rome.

They exchanged the swooping, looting and slaughter of their nomadic past for more polite modes of competition as they ate into the declining Byzantine possessions, taking their rulers as "honorary hostages", forcing them to create a Turkish quarter inside the capital. It was a long game of wits, strength and cunning, during which the invaders gradually absorbed many of the Byzantines' civilised ways. The fatal blow was struck not by the Turks but by the treacherous Catholics of the Fourth Crusade, who occupied the city in 1204, fatally weakening the empire and hastening its final overthrow two-and-a-half centuries later.

Thus began the Ottomans' golden age, which stretched from the end of our Hundred Years' War to the declining years of Charles II. Under a succession of brilliant emperors culminating in the extraordinary Suleiman, they conquered half of Europe and the whole of north Africa bordering the Mediterranean as far as Morocco. They also gained control of the Islamic holy sites of Mecca and Medina and, after the conquest of Egypt, the Ottoman sultans adopted in addition the title of caliph, asserting their leadership of all Muslims.

Suleiman was rightly called Magnificent not only on account of his vast turban and his conquests of Hungary and Belgrade, but also because he was one of those rare warriors who was many other things besides: an artist, a great patron of the arts, and a poet. But it was the name by which he was known within the empire, Kanuni Suleiman, which is most relevant and resonant today: Suleiman the lawgiver.

The final days of the Ottoman Empire The final days of the Ottoman Empire
The Ottomans were bound by Sharia, but Suleiman understood how inadequate that archaic charter was to regulate the affairs of a modern empire. The act of theft, for example, under Sharia involves simply placing a hand inside another's property and removing something, while more sophisticated forms of theft such as counterfeiting, let alone copyright violation, were outside its norms. Suleiman presided over a new system of laws which respected Sharia while taking account of the developing nature of Ottoman civilisation – a legal system that endured for centuries.

As with other empires both before and since, it is easy to sentimentalise the Ottoman centuries. There was no "multiculturalism" in our sense: there was no doubt about which religion was on top. The stability of the administration rested on the barbaric custom of kidnapping Christian boy children from the Balkans year after year, converting them to Islam, and turning them into soldiers or civil servants, depending on their gifts.

In either case, their orphaned condition meant that they had no ambitious relatives waiting in the wings, threatening the power of the ruling family, and the Sultan advanced them according to their abilities, regardless of how humble were their origins. "The shepherd who rose to become an illustrious grand vizier was a figure that never ceased to fascinate European observers," wrote one authority. Thus on the foundations of a brutal tradition was built Europe's first functioning meritocracy.

But the real tragedy of the Ottoman Empire is not the way they ruled, but what happened after they left. Everywhere one looks, those lands are, or have recently been, in flames, from Bosnia to Iraq and from Tunisia to Syria. And wherever one looks, that precious Ottoman legacy, the cohabitation and interdependence of different faiths, is under mortal threat.

If toleration of other faiths became a hallmark of Ottoman rule, it was not obvious in the empire's early days. Pope Benedict XVI, now in retirement, brought the wrath of the Islamic world down on his head in September 2006 when, during a scholarly sermon at the University of Regensburg, he quoted comments by the late Byzantine emperor Manuel II Paleologus, who became an "honorary hostage" of the Ottomans in the 14th century.

The Christian emperor chastised Islam for its reliance on the sword: "Spreading the faith through violence is something unreasonable," he said. "Violence is incompatible with the nature of God and the nature of the soul… Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached." Manuel's comments were understandable in the context of the 14th century and they are unpleasantly resonant again today, in countries from Pakistan to Kenya and beyond, where Muslim zealots appear to believe that the rule of terror is pleasing to God.

A rebel fighter ducks to avoid being fired at by the Syrian regime A rebel fighter ducks to avoid being fired at by the Syrian regime
But they would not have been correct during the Ottomans' long heyday, when Christians, Jews and other minorities practised their beliefs openly and without fear. And because the Ottoman sultans were also recognised as caliphs, the supreme religious as well as political leader, throughout the Islamic world, that model of peaceful co-existence was for many centuries the norm.

In fact, the rise of fanaticism can be traced directly to the end of the caliphate in 1923. Kemal Ataturk, the Turkish hero of Gallipoli, buried the Ottoman Empire with little ceremony when he took power after the First World War, abolishing all its symbols, from Arabic script and the veil to the fez. The caliphate was, in his nationalist, secularising view, just another antiquated hangover from the long, humiliating decline of what had been known for nearly a century as "the sick man of Europe".

But the caliphate's abolition had an impact far beyond the borders of Turkey: it removed a central point of reference for Muslims everywhere. The poet WB Yeats was not thinking of Islam when he wrote his famous lines: "Things fall apart/ the centre cannot hold," but that was the effect of the caliphate's downfall.

It was especially devastating far away in India. Up to that point, Hindu and Muslim freedom fighters had been in lockstep against British rule. With the caliphate gone, Muslims suffered a fatal blow to their prestige, as well as the removal of the ancient source of religious authority. Within a few years, the Muslim League had parted company with Congress and was demanding a separate state for the subcontinent's Muslims, which two decades later (on 14 August 1947, to be precise) became Pakistan.

Other consequences of Ataturk's decision continue to roll around the world. Afghanistan's Taliban are as far removed from the suaveness and sophistication of the Ottomans as one can get: many of their leaders were illiterate, and the rule they imposed was notoriously intolerant and rigid. Their interpretation of Sharia was brutally reductive, as if the only way to righteousness was to recreate the conditions of life that prevailed while the Prophet was still alive.

What gave them their confidence to impose such brutality on the poor, suffering Afghans? It is the fact that there was no figure of authority to challenge them. To justify his rule, their one-eyed leader, Mullah Omar, usurped the title of caliph – Caliph of the Emirate of Afghanistan. One of the symbols of legitimacy of the Ottoman caliphs was a cloak allegedly worn by the Prophet, kept locked away in an ornate chest in Istanbul; one day Omar, standing on a Taliban pick-up truck, produced a Prophet's cloak of his own, though how it had survived 1,500 years in such excellent condition was not explained.

The Ottomans, absolutist rulers though they were, developed laws that both Muslims and Christians could live by, and sustained a model of Islamic moderation which prevailed until the caliphate's destruction. For that reason they are much missed. Since then, from Kandahar to Somalia and from Tora Bora to Mali, as Yeats wrote: "mere anarchy is loosed upon the world":

"The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity…"

'The Ottomans – Europe's Muslim Emperors' airs on BBC2 from 6 October

Today,extremist Islam is running amok not only within Islamic states in the Middle East but also in western nations,across Asia and Africa.The Al Q culture has spread like the whirlwind even if its founder has been despatched to the next world.Islam is the world's fastest growing religion that has invaded the west through immigration and is now almost unstoppable and heading for a horrendous falling out in the near future. In fact the "Caliphate" of yore that the Turkish "delight" enjoyed,has now been usurped by the Al Q confederation of terrorist entities.

[pankajs]

A little-noticed battle

The Kurds, who landed control of a string of towns and villages in northeast Syria after the men of Bashar Assad, the Syrian president, left voluntarily over a year ago, insist they are the victims of a proxy war that is being orchestrated by Turkey through its Syrian rebel protégés. These allegedly include foreign fighters from Jabhat al-Nusra and the Islamic State in Iraq and Syria (ISIS), the radical Islamist militias that have shot to global notoriety with their brutal ways.

“The Turks have cleared mines, cut barbed wire fencing to let these armed gangs come through the Turkish border,” grumbles Saleh Muslim (pictured), the leader of the Democratic Unity Party (PYD), the Syrian Kurdish group that runs the de-facto autonomous Kurdish enclave. A Syrian rebel fighting the Kurds told our correspondent that “Allah be praised, Turkey is giving us some weapons” though he added that the France and Saudi Arabia were “much more generous”.

Turkish leaders deny they have any hand in the fight and say Mr Muslim’s claims that his group is fighting Islamist extremists are calculated to win western sympathy. What is more Jabhat Al Nusra, is a threat to Turkey’s own security, and Syria’s Arab majority is every bit as worried about the Kurds’ separatist impulses, if not more so.

Yet allegations of Turkish complicity are being aired across the border region. “Everyone knows what sort of mischief the Turkish authorities are up to,” declared Ismail Arslan, the Kurdish mayor of Ceylanpinar, a hardscrabble border town with a mixed population of Arabs and Kurds. A security guard at a camp for Syrian refugees in Ceylanpinar said he had witnessed rebels cross over from the camp to fight the Kurds in and around the town of Ras el Ain. PYD forces captured the Syrian town in July after heavy fighting that left scores dead on both sides. Western officials say they have voiced their worries to their Turkish allies over foreign jihadists coming in and out of Turkey. “We told them that they were playing with fire,” said a European diplomat.

[JwalaMukhi]

With such dramatic convolutions,who knows,Assad may one day regain favour with the US in its "fight against terror",the hard core Islamist jihadis.But these entities have their own side support in the oily bazaar of the Middle-East and Gulf autocracies,who are directing them abroad at other nations to keep their monarchist regimes stable at home.Sadly,the US opened Pandora's box in the Muslim world ,sowed the Arab Spring wind and is now reaping the whiorlwind

Absolutely, correct. Even Syrians are not going to be worried about how things are going to pan out. It is a very fickle situation. Heck, even the Russians are very careful and routinely give out statements to continue their business like relationship with US. Even while providing asylum to Snowden, Russia very carefully put a pre-condition that he does nothing to damage US. Russians are mainly concerned about the status quo as it helps them to solidify their position in the food chain.

It is only some of us think that somehow this situation is an excellent opportunity and get smitten with so called just fight to preserve the "current world order" and advocate antagonizing US.

[anmol]

Found some interesting wikileaks on State Department/Google/CFR exec(close to Google founders, Eric Schmidt, Obama, Hillary, Condi rice etc) which are relevant to this thread. I am sorry there are too many, dont know whether to post these here at all.

In following mail the google exec who got arrested after meeting cohen is http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wael_Ghonim (he played major role in "revolution".)

src: http://search.wikileaks.org/gifiles/?vi ... archresult

Egypt - Google ** Suggest you read

Released on 2012-03-14 22:00 GMT
Email-ID 1122191
Date 2011-02-09 15:05:19
From [email protected]
To [email protected]
** Cohen had dinner in Cairo the night before the Google Exec was picked
up by GOE State Security.....one-hour after the dinner, the Gypo exec
was grabbed off the streets heading into a friends apt.

More to follow.....

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2 ... ared_cohen


State Department Innovator Goes to Google
<http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2 ... ared_cohen>


Jared Cohen, a high-profile advocate of the State Department's
forays into "21st-century statecraft," is leaving Foggy Bottom for
New York. In an exclusive interview with FP, he talks about his time
at State and his new project: building a "think/do tank" called
Google Ideas.

src: http://search.wikileaks.org/gifiles/?vi ... archresult

Re: More on Cohen

Released on 2012-03-14 22:00 GMT
Email-ID 1629270
Date 2011-02-09 21:42:07
From [email protected]
To [email protected]
i think he has some interest in africa.=C2=A0 don't get some shit in your
twatter from him.....

info page:

http://www.cfr.org/experts/iran-technology-and-for=
eign-policy-terrorism/jared-cohen/b16451

On 2/9/11 2:40 PM, Bayless Parsley wrote:

What?! I'm in love. How the hell does he know swahili

On 2011 Feb 9, at 13:19, "Sean Noonan" <[email protected]> wrote:

Hahahaha. mainly he just talks aboput his trips to egypt and nigeria.

Bayless, you could be homies with this guy. He is also fluent in
swahili

----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "scott stewart" <scott.stewart@stra= tfor.com>
Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2011 12:13:27 -0600 (CST)
To: 'Sean Noonan'<sean.noonan@stratfor= .com>; 'Bayless
Parsley'<bayless.parsley@= stratfor.com>
Subject: RE: More on Cohen

That sounds borderline *****.

<o:= p>=C2=A0

<o:= p>=C2=A0

From: Sean Noonan [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2011 1:08 PM
To: Bayless Parsley; TACTICAL
Subject: Re: More on Cohen

=C2=A0

tons of shit on his twatter

http://twitter.com/j= aredcohen

On 2/9/11 12:06 PM, Sean Noonan wrote:

yes.

On 2/9/11 12:05 PM, Anya Alfano wrote:

Huffington Post is saying that Cohen was the State Dept gu=
y responsible

for delaying the scheduled maintenance on Twitter so the I=
ranian

revolution could keep going.=C2=A0 Also a mention of his A=
YM involvement.

=C2=A0

Huff Post bio of Cohen here --

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jared-cohen</o:=
p>

=C2=A0

On 2/9/11 12:56 PM, Bayless Parsley wrote:

Also, please make sure to continue cc'ing me on emails t=
o tactical.

Thx again.

[..]

On 2011 Feb 9, at 11:52, Anya Alfano <[email protected]=
om> wrote:

Check out this article/interview with FP -- this Cohen=
fellow just

turned 29 in November.=C2=A0 Definitely a different so=
rt of background -- he

was a Rhodes scholar, spent time in Iran, hung out in =
Iraq during the war, etc.

http://www.foreignpolicy.com/ar=ticles/ ... ared_cohen

src: http://search.wikileaks.org/gifiles/?vi ... archresult

Re: Goggle Shitstorm Moving to Gaza (internal use only)

Released on 2012-03-14 22:00 GMT
Email-ID 1111729
Date 2011-02-10 20:26:49
From [email protected]
To [email protected], [email protected], [email protected]
Cohen's rabbi is Eric Schmidt and Obama lackey.

My source is trying to find out if the billionaire owners are backing
Cohen's efforts for regime change.

I'm thinking about having the Palestinians pick him up.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Korena Zucha <[email protected]>
Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2011 13:22:55 -0600 (CST)
To: Fred Burton<[email protected]>
Cc: Secure List<[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Goggle Shitstorm Moving to Gaza (internal use only)
Why hasn't Google cut ties to Cohen yet? Or is Cohen's activity being
endorsed by those higher up in the co. than your contact?

On 2/10/11 1:20 PM, Fred Burton wrote:

Jared Cohen, the Google policy official who met w/the Google Gypo Exec,
ONE HOUR before the poor chap was nabbed, is off to Gaza next
week....per a very good Google source.

Cohen, a Jew, is bound to get himself whacked....

Google is not clear if Cohen is operating w/a State Dept/WH license, or
a hippie activist.

Google may be more important than Obama. Their lefty billionaire owners
think they can change the world. I would prefer Google run the world
vice the WH.

src: https://search.wikileaks.org/gifiles/?v ... id=1123044

Re: Google's Cohen Activist Role

Released on 2013-03-11 00:00 GMT
Email-ID 1123044
Date 2011-02-10 22:04:08
From [email protected]
To [email protected], [email protected]
Oh my, the State Dept is the orgs public sponsor....plot thickens.

Fred Burton wrote:
> JARED COHEN
>
> *Co-Founder and Board Member*
>
> **
>
> Jared Cohen is the Director of Google Ideas, a new entity at Google
> aiming to re-frame and act on old challenges in new and innovative ways.
> He is also an Adjunct Fellow at the Council on Foreign Relations, where
> he focuses on terrorism and counter-radicalization, the impact of
> connection technologies, and “21st century statecraft.”Previously, he
> served for four years as a member of the State Department’s Policy
> Planning Staff under both Secretaries of State Condoleezza Rice and
> Hillary Clinton. In this capacity, he advised on the Middle East, South
> Asia, counter-terrorism, counter-radicalization, and the development of
> the “21st century statecraft” agenda. He is twice a recipient of the
> Secretary of State’s Meritorious Honor Award.
>
> Cohen is author of the books Children of Jihad: A Young American’s
> Travels Among the Youth of the Middle East and One Hundred Days of
> Silence: America and the Rwanda Genocide. He has also written several
> articles, including “Diverting the Radicalization Track” (Policy Review)
> and “Iran’s Young Opposition” (SAIS Review). He received his BA from
> Stanford University and his M.Phil in International Relations from
> Oxford University, where he studied as a Rhodes Scholar.
>
> Cohen has traveled extensively throughout Africa, where he examined
> issues related to democracy, governance, and genocide. He has also
> conducted research in Afghanistan, Iran, Iraq, Syria, and Lebanon,
> looking at opposition groups, the spread of technology, and interviewing
> militants ranging from Hezbollah to several Al-Qaeda affiliated groups.
> He is fluent in Swahili. In his spare time, he enjoys painting,
> collecting presidential campaign memorabilia, and reading about Tudor
> England. He has twice served as a juror at the Tribeca Film Festival.
>
>
>
> Fred Burton wrote:
>
>> Google source advises that Cohen was part of the founding group. Google,
>> Facebook, others
>>
>> Fred Burton wrote:
>>
>>
>>> http://www.movements.org/
>>>
>>>
>>> Ben West wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> This is what i get at that link
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 2/10/2011 2:27 PM, Fred Burton wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> From Source --
>>>>>
>>>>> A site created to help online organization of groups and individuals to
>>>>> move democracy in stubborn nations. Funded through public-private
>>>>> partnerships.
>>>>>
>>>>> Ben West wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> I don't think this website is registered. It just has an add for
>>>>>> breitling watches.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 2/10/2011 2:16 PM, Fred Burton wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> http://movements.com/hc3.asp
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ** Source advises this umbrella group is linked to Cohen and Google.
>>>>>>>

src: http://search.wikileaks.org/gifiles/?vi ... archresult
Re: movements.org founder Cohen

Released on 2012-03-06 09:00 GMT
Email-ID 1113596
Date 2011-02-11 19:42:49
From [email protected]
To [email protected], [email protected], [email protected]
The dude is a loose canon.

GOOGLE is trying to stop his entry into Gaza now because the dude is
like scorched earth.

Its unclear to GOOGLE if he's driving w/out a license, but GOOGLE
believes he's on a specific mission of "regime change" on the part of
leftest fools inside the WH who are using him for their agendas.

I would hope the Shabak pick him up for "an interview".

Kamran Bokhari wrote:
> Speaking to him @ 6PM this evening.
>
> ------Original Message------
> From: Scott Stewart
> To: Fred Burton
> To: 'Secure List'
> Subject: RE: movements.org founder Cohen
> Sent: Feb 11, 2011 1:34 PM
>
> Actually, he might be worth watching...
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Fred Burton [mailto:[email protected]]
> Sent: Friday, February 11, 2011 1:22 PM
> To: Secure List
> Subject: movements.org founder Cohen
>
> Is bound for Gaza Monday....he was in Tunisia BEFORE the shit hit the
> fan and was in Cairo four days before Ghonim was nabbed...
>
> Check out movements.org public sponsor...(hint: The place Stick worked.)

http://search.wikileaks.org/gifiles/?vi ... archresult
Re: discussion: who is next?

Released on 2012-03-14 22:00 GMT
Email-ID 1113965
Date 2011-02-11 23:30:13
From [email protected]
To [email protected], [email protected]
Iran failed -- we could go back and bring up those reasons why
(overestimation of the protesters by themselves, underestimation of A-Dogg
and his base, and no real foreign access into that base to manipulate
loyalties). There was plenty of access to tweeters, but this didn't speak
to the regime that stood solid and did not fracture.

Now in Egypt, there was extensive consultations between the military and
foreign (the US) throughout the protests. We don't know what was told to
whom, but we do know it was extensive. All this besides whatever the
tweeters were sending in.

I'm not sure if in Tunisia there was as extensive consultations between
the military calling it quits on Ben Ali and any outside pressure or
consultations?

On 2/11/11 4:14 PM, Sean Noonan wrote:

One major thing about this- Cohen has been working on this for a long
time. Maybe not revolutions per se (I don't know his motives), but in
spreading free speech and political organization through social media.
He was the one who told twitter not to stop service during Iran 2009.

Iran failed.

Tunisia and egypt had underlying causes that social media was used as a
tool. (Read the Sweekly, blah blah blah). Maybe they have figured out
now how to target things. But I think they are much more like CANVAS
providing training and better tools, so when the right situation comes
about they are ready to go.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Mark Schroeder <[email protected]>
Sender: [email protected]
Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2011 13:45:37 -0600 (CST)
To: Analyst List<[email protected]>
ReplyTo: Analyst List <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: discussion: who is next?
it would be pretty great to be able to fast-forward a couple of months
and see who is next, and then walk it back. we all agree on that, we all
agree on wanting to understand patterns.

maybe there's just some small group of twitting free-lancers who are
eager to stir up social protest movements, maybe they have an agenda,
maybe they're just looking for a huge rush even if it risks trouble like
being blindfolded and beaten in some stank cell.

but if they're looking to stir up dissent among old-guard Arab regimes,
and see where that goes as far as shaking them up, they won't be looking
outside the Middle East, and they won't be looking at lower-ranking
states. been there, done that.

On 2/11/11 1:26 PM, Bayless Parsley wrote:

Wait are you saying there is an intntnl conspiracy driving all this in
a coordinated fashion?

On 2011 Feb 11, at 14:14, Mark Schroeder <[email protected]>
wrote:

Just to look at it in another way. On the one hand, there are states
that are facing revolutionary/successionist pressures and that we
can monitor the protests there.

On the other hand, going off of Fred's thoughts of any
Cohen/Google/WH thing going on -- who's higher in the ranking of
significance that we could also look at as next? Tunisia was
small-fry, to test out methods. Egypt was pretty big fry, and that
was pretty successful timing-wise, less than 3 weeks. Going from
Tunisia to Egypt to a chump state (say, Yemen) might not be the
intention or desire. Not to rule those out -- protesters and their
supporters will take what they can get -- and I'm not saying that
protesting will get any easier (or success being likely) when going
up in a ranking of significance, but now there are 2 case studies
under the belt and next could be bigger and more juicy targets even
if they will be difficult.

On 2/11/11 12:16 PM, Peter Zeihan wrote:

First Tunisia, now Egypt.

While obviously protests are key to all this, bear in mind that at
least in the Egyptian case this is more an internal military
succession issue than a revolution, so we need to examine other
states in the same light.

Rather than respond to this thread, please start up new threads
for each individual state that any of you think might be facing
revolutionary/successionist pressure.

Pls funnel your initial thoughts through Bayless so that we only
have one thread per country.

Remember: this is the question from all of our clients who are
interested in the topic of Egypt.

src: http://search.wikileaks.org/gifiles/?vi ... archresult
Re: GOOGLE's Jared Cohen update

Released on 2012-03-14 22:00 GMT
Email-ID 398679
Date 2011-02-14 16:25:24
From [email protected]
To [email protected], [email protected]
Marty Lev, the security director and Eric Schmidt the CEO (GOOGLE)

George Friedman wrote:
> We need your sources classified in our system. I have no idea who this
> source is, where he is located or how reliable he is. You have
> fantastic and invaluable sources but you have to get with Stick to
> build them into our system. Otherwise we can't make good use of them.
> Please get together on this guys.
>
> On 02/14/11 09:17 , Fred Burton wrote:
>> ** Note comment about Cohen. The inference is relative to Cohen working
>> for the State Dept and WH to support Arab regime changes.
>>
>>
>> Did C go into Gaza? Thanks
>>
>> -------- Original Message --------
>>
>> No we told him not too. He's not happy but accepting of it. Also,
>> thinking I may be on the right track about him despite his denials.
>>
>> I will call you Wednesday to discuss more
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
> --
>
> George Friedman

src: http://search.wikileaks.org/gifiles/?vi ... archresult
Re: GOOGLE & Iran ** internal use only - pls do not forward **

Released on 2012-03-14 22:00 GMT
Email-ID 1121800
Date 2011-02-27 15:31:56
From [email protected]
To [email protected], [email protected]
GOOGLE is getting WH and State Dept. support & air cover. In reality,
they are doing things the CIA cannot do. But, I agree with you. He's
going to get himself kidnapped or killed. Might be the best thing to
happen to expose GOOGLE's covert role in foaming up-risings, to be
blunt. The US Govt can then disavow knowledge and GOOGLE is left
holding the shit bag.

scott stewart wrote:
> Cohen might end up having an accident if he is not careful. This is not
> child's play.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Fred Burton [mailto:[email protected]]
> Sent: Sunday, February 27, 2011 9:28 AM
> To: Secure List
> Subject: GOOGLE & Iran ** internal use only - pls do not forward **
>
> *** PLS DO NOT FORWARD -- SOLE SOURCE
>
> ** Extracted from an internal email to a senior Google Executive. The
> msg is from Jared Cohen (the former policy appointee @ State) and
> discusses Cohen's plans on meeting w/Iranians.
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> ------------------------------------------------
>
>
> I wanted to follow-up and get a sense of your latest thinking on the
> proposed March trip to UAE, Azerbaijan, and Turkey. The purpose of this
> trip is to exclusively engage the Iranian community to better understand
> the challenges faced by Iranians as part of one of our Google Ideas
> groups on repressive societies.
>
> Here is what we are thinking:
>
> Drive to Azerbaijan/Iranian border and engage the Iranian communities
> closer to the border (this is important because we need the Azeri
> Iranian perspective)

src: http://search.wikileaks.org/gifiles/?vi ... archresult
GOOGLE Loose Canon Bound for Turkey & UAE (SENSITIVE - DO NOT FORWARD)

Released on 2012-03-14 22:00 GMT
Email-ID 1164190
Date 2011-03-10 16:52:45
From [email protected]
To [email protected]
** A note from a senior GOOGLE Exec. Pls protect the origin. The msg
pertains to Jared Cohen's plans to travel to Turkey and UAE, on the
heals of his antics in Egypt and Tunisia. As you can see, there are
folks @ GOOGLE not happy w/his actions.....

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


I'm committed to helping Jared do his job and making Google an active
participant in the four priority areas for Google Ideas. We do have
concerns regarding his travel there. Right now Jared is a lightning rod
(said lovingly). His "baggage" as a U.S. State Dept policymaker, his
research and publications on Muslim extremists and youth movements and
his presence in Egypt just as the uprising started presents a unique
convergence.

I'd put them in several buckets:

1. Following Egypt and the "baggage" Jared carries his engagement
with people in the youth movements focused on Iran may be viewed
as an instigator. There is potential risk to Google's brand and
each situation further perpetuates the image of Jared as a spy or
agent of the U.S (or Israeli) Gov't. He will be receiving a lot of
attention around the "Formers" event just as he will make this
trip so his profile will be very high.
2. There is a possibility, although we believe small right now, that
Jared could get detained by one of the governments who sees him as
a threat to their power and stability.
3. There is potential for harm to the people who meet with Jared.
While the location of the meeting is outside Iran we should not
discount the extent of surveillance and data gathering efforts by
those regimes. The identification of Jared's associates may
result in detainment of them or their families.

Our recommendation is that Jared take a lower profile on this specific
trip and let time pass before being visible and associated with people
known by their states to be active in challenging repressive societies.
We can talk Friday by phone if that's convenient.

src: http://search.wikileaks.org/gifiles/?vi ... archresult
Re: [alpha] GOOGLE - Cohen & Hosting of Terrorists

Released on 2012-03-14 22:00 GMT
Email-ID 1133861
Date 2011-03-22 15:31:34
From [email protected]
To [email protected]
If you go, pls sell copies of my books.

On 3/22/2011 9:18 AM, Kamran Bokhari wrote:
> I am invited to this conference. Perhaps I should reconsider.
>
> Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Fred Burton <[email protected]>
> Sender: [email protected]
> Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2011 09:07:36
> To: Matthew Powers<[email protected]>
> Reply-To: Alpha List <[email protected]>
> Cc: Alpha List<[email protected]>
> Subject: Re: [alpha] GOOGLE - Cohen & Hosting of Terrorists
>
> The conference will feature "formers" from urban African American gangs,
> rural white power gangs, neo Nazis gangs, Latin American gangs, Asian
> gangs, and former nationalist extremists from Ireland, Europe, and Asia,
> as well as Islamist extremists from the Middle East, North Africa, and
> Southeast Asia.
>
> ** Star Wars bar? GOOGLE has become the new Bob Dylan, Sam Cooke and
> The Beatles trying to make social change.
>
> Why can't they worry about making better widgets and Gmail?
>
> I'm calling the GOOGLE founders later today. What will this do to my
> GOOGLE stock?
>
> Fred's motto # 2 - Money does not buy sanity.
>
>
> On 3/22/2011 8:57 AM, Matthew Powers wrote:
>> http://thecable.foreignpolicy.com/posts ... _extremism
>>
>>
>>
>> Fred Burton wrote:
>>> >From a senior GOOGLE exec:
>>>
>>>
>>> By the way - Jared (COHEN) heeded the advice not to go to Turkey or UAE
>>> for those
>>> meetings. Other Googlers are hosting those meetings.
>>>
>>> You should see some
>>> stories about us hosting a "formers" event in June in Dublin.
>>>
>>> This is a
>>> meeting of 100 former terrorists, gang members, and other basic
>>> troublemakers.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> (Fred's note -- Can we find information on the Dublin event? May be a
>>> good place for me to do a book signing! WTF is wrong with these rich
>>> arseholes? Money does not buy sanity.)
>>>

src: http://search.wikileaks.org/gifiles/?vi ... archresult
[alpha] Jared Cohen (GOOGLE)

Released on 2012-03-14 22:00 GMT
Email-ID 1160182
Date 2011-03-30 14:56:37
From [email protected]
To [email protected]

** From a senior GOOGLE Exec reference Jared Cohen, global rabblerouser
and beatnik.



Not that I'm aware of. He heeded the advice to avoid Turkey and UAE and
didn't go on that trip



---------------------------------------

Is he playing a role in Libya? Fred

[Lalmohan]

To understand Erdogan's problems read this:

It was especially devastating far away in India. Up to that point, Hindu and Muslim freedom fighters had been in lockstep against British rule. With the caliphate gone, Muslims suffered a fatal blow to their prestige, as well as the removal of the ancient source of religious authority. Within a few years, the Muslim League had parted company with Congress and was demanding a separate state for the subcontinent's Muslims, which two decades later (on 14 August 1947, to be precise) became Pakistan.

so, complete proof then that the turks are indeed one of pakistan's four-fathers!

[Singha]

wiki: A Commando Battalion in the Pakistan Army is named Yaldaram Battalion after him. (yaldaram - sultan Bayezid-I of turkey a peer of timur)

[Lalmohan]

IIRC timur annihilated them, despite offerings of 100's of peachy bottomed youths on the eve of battle

[habal]

In refugee camps located in Jordan you can 'buy' Syrian girls for as little as $2000 or euros.

The buyers are Saudi. See this German report:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gzQJpbkP ... ploademail

another Saudi genius, who has made new discoveries

http://riyadhconnect.com/saudi-sheikh-w ... nd-pelvis/

[vishvak]

Al-Luhaidan added that driving could have a reverse physiological impact on women and could affect her ovaries and push the pelvis higher as a result of which their children are born with clinical disorders of varying degrees.

He further stated that 33% female drivers caused car accidents in Arab countries as opposed to 9% male

This is the state of Saudi lands since 7th century when its sacredness was owned by ummah.

[vishvak]

In refugee camps located in Jordan you can 'buy' Syrian girls for as little as $2000 or euros.

The buyers are Saudi. See this German report:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gzQJpbkP ... ploademail
..

What does it say about effect of secularism and aims of warmongering.

The global charity and aid model is controlled by few ideologies that seem to be selectively silent even on this.

The video says that Imam who allow this is spiritual head but Imam is religious leader not spiritual.

The experience of Leila and such is barbaric outright. The charity and aid models are not sufficient to deal with this and in fact hide religious facet call it by anything else won't change religious backing.

[habal]

The Norwegian Aftenposten has published an interview with the kidnapped journalist who overheard the Skype conversation between rebels and their western masters where them rats admitted responsibility for the chemical weapons attack.

Frigitt gissel mener opprørere sto bak gassangrepet i Syria
Aftenposten, September 29, 2013

Now as per this entry on a wiki blog:

http://acloserlookonsyria.shoutwiki.com ... d_Piccinin

A renowned Norwegian correspondent in Brussels interviews Piccinin. He gives more details about what they heard than he did in the sources we so far have. Key points:

We heard two men, a general from the FSA, and one officer from Al-Farouk in a room next door - talking to a third person via Skype. This man had an Oxford-accent, says Piccinin.
They first talked about the situation in Lebanon, Tunisia and Egypt. Then they started talking about Ghouta. Domenico and myself had no idea there had even been a gas attack.
The FSA-general was angry and said there were too many dead. Hundreds. The Skype-voice answered that gas had been involved, and the situation had spun out of control.
The Al-Farouk officer said: You said there would be only fifty dead. The Skype-man said: It was necessary. It will change a lot in this war.

So there you have it, the Oxford-accented British or MI6 spy directly carried out the chemical attack in ghouta. Western-Intelligence services have been at work instead of hardcore Islamists to carry out this mission critical task, on which would stand in balance the main excuse to launch attack on Syria. This could also be one reason why the Islamists are cutting ties with the SNC-types, they are accusing the west of murdering innocent Syrian civilians and also failing to deliver on air strikes.

These guys are even more diabolical than some bandar.