X-Post.
Not that their families probably expect it, but wouldnt it have been a decent gesture on the behalf of the Maharashtra govt to offer jobs to the families of the two army men attached to the NSG who lost their lives defending Mumbai too?
Heck, even of any of the other governments who are falling over themselves to announce compensations, or the govts of their native states.
Im sure it would make a material difference at least to the family of Hav. Gajendra Singh. Maybe they could offer a state civil service job to the wife or kid of the fallen major?
Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III
Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III
BCCI's uvacha
Vice president of Indian cricket board Rajiv Shukla said that the Indian government did not refuse to permit the Indian team for touring Pakistan and the news of the tour cancellation is a mere media speculation.
He said that the tour at the moment has not been cancelled.
Rajiv Shukla said that the terrorists are nobody’s friends.
He said that 80 Muslims were killed in the Mumbai attacks.
Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III
Not ordering a meaningless mobilization is probably a good thing. The chiefs know that a conventional build-up will pretty much give away the game plan and is self-defeating, not to mention expensive, if nothing comes of it. The pressure on the Congress (I) to do something, anything, must be crushing right now. Realistically speaking, what are our options if India does not opt for an Op Parakram redux?
Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III
Navy is saying no IB warning came that pigs are coming from sea.
S^%4 these guys are still carrying the anti armed forces propaganda
S^%4 these guys are still carrying the anti armed forces propaganda
Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III
I think the intel reports did not filter down to the navy. It's the job of the coast guard which incidentally is perennially short of all things its needs. Who will pick up the responsibility ?Nitesh wrote:Navy is saying no IB warning came that pigs are coming from sea.
S^%4 these guys are still carrying the anti armed forces propaganda
Last edited by Anabhaya on 30 Nov 2008 19:02, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III
But the DDM reported that navy got the info and not acted that is my point. News is also floating arounf theat the cost guard head will be sackedAnabhaya wrote:I think the intel reports did not filter down to the navy. It's the job of the coast guard which incidentally is perennially short of all things its needs. Who will pick up the responsibility ?Nitesh wrote:Navy is saying no IB warning came that pigs are coming from sea.
S^%4 these guys are still carrying the anti armed forces propaganda
Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III
text of the Deccan Mujahideen email
http://svaradarajan.blogspot.com/
http://svaradarajan.blogspot.com/
I just read the Deccan Mujahideen email. It is so full of basic spelling mistakes that it has clearly been machine transliterated. No native speaker of the language was on hand to correct the obvious bloomers.
Final giveaway of the Pakistani provenance of the email: It is signed "Mujahideen Hyderabad Dakkan".
The word mujahideen is spelt wrong (as "mujheedeen") but the important point to note -- no one in India ever refers to "our" Hyderabad as "Hyderabad Dakkan". That is the phrase you hear in Pakistan, which has the less famous Hyderabad, Sindh.
Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III
Notice the already subtle shift in desi media channels from outrage at the carnage to Sonia worship. Patil is only a scapegoat to take away our attention and look as if they have taken drastic action. More of the drama will follow...predictable..cry my beloved country...
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animesharma
- BRFite
- Posts: 269
- Joined: 29 Nov 2008 20:56
Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III
Why are we stuck with such mentality that every brave sacrifices should be weighed with compensation money. this is serious, every time one soldier sacrifices his life, his family is given a petrol pump, some money and blah blah. Eventually, if you are a low level jawan, its quite hard to even get that money from babus.ASPuar wrote:X-Post.
Not that their families probably expect it, but wouldnt it have been a decent gesture on the behalf of the Maharashtra govt to offer jobs to the families of the two army men attached to the NSG who lost their lives defending Mumbai too?
Heck, even of any of the other governments who are falling over themselves to announce compensations, or the govts of their native states.
Im sure it would make a material difference at least to the family of Hav. Gajendra Singh. Maybe they could offer a state civil service job to the wife or kid of the fallen major?
the NSG commando who was hurt in guj akshardham temple attack was in delhi hospital for over one year. But media paid attention only when he died.
these people deserve much more than just some money.They deserve a respectful position in society.
I suggest, wards of such bravehearts should be given priority (and in terms of arjun singh: reservation) to educational institutes. Their educational expenditure (from Schooling to post graduation) should be a taken care by one person.
Give them tax benefits,easy loans, and a thank you note on every republic day and national day celebration.
beside: i don't mean to start a reservation based discussion, so please spare this thread.
Other options may include re-structuring our own home first. Buddy, Pakistan problem is just a part of challenges india faces today.Not ordering a meaningless mobilization is probably a good thing. The chiefs know that a conventional build-up will pretty much give away the game plan and is self-defeating, not to mention expensive, if nothing comes of it. The pressure on the Congress (I) to do something, anything, must be crushing right now. Realistically speaking, what are our options if India does not opt for an Op Parakram redux?
Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III
How the diabolic plannning took place in Pak! this reputed UK papaer has been shown details of the interrogation of the captured pig.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... o-plan.htm
The audacious attack which took a year to plan
The attack was planned with military precision.
By Rahul Bedi in Bombay and Sean Rayment, Security correspondent
Last Updated: 10:44PM GMT 29 Nov 2008
Preparations for the atrocity may have began a year ago in a remote mountain camp in Kashmir Photo: AP
Ten terrorists dedicated to fighting for an independent Kashmir were selected for an operation from which they were likely never to return.
The tactics were relatively simple: to strike at multiple targets while simultaneously slaughtering as many civilians as possible before going "static" in three of the locations within the city.
But such a plan would require a year of planning, reconnaissance, the covert acquisition of ships and speed boats as well as the forward basing of weapons and ammunition secretly hidden inside at least one hotel.
Nothing would be left to chance. Even the times of the tides were checked and rechecked to ensure that the terrorists would be able to arrive when their first target, the Café Leopold, was full of unsuspecting tourists enjoying the balmy Bombay (Mumbai) evening.
The preparations for the atrocity began a year earlier in a remote mountain camp in Muzaffarabad, in Pakistan- administered Kashmir, according to the interrogation of a 19-year-old believed to be the only member of the terrorist unit to be captured alive.
The Sunday Telegraph has been shown details of the interrogation which provide the first clues to the identity of the terrorists and the amount of detail which went into the planning of the operation.
Kamal has revealed to his interrogators that most of the volunteers spoke his native Punjabi and that all of them were given false names and were discouraged from interacting with each other beyond what was barely necessary.
During the months of training they were taught the use of explosives and close quarter combat. It was ingrained upon every man that ammunition would be in short supply and therefore every bullet should count.
The terrorists were also taught marine commando techniques such as beach landings at another camp at the Mangla Dam, located on the border between Pakistan-administered Kashmir and India's Punjab province.
Kamal revealed that once their training was complete, his team of four travelled to the garrison town of Rawalpindi, where they were joined by another six terrorists, who had been trained at other camps close by.
It was in Rawalpindi that the 10-man team were briefed in detail with digitised images of their prospective targets – the Taj Mahal and Oberoi Hotels, the Jewish Centre and the Victoria Terminus railway station. Each member of the team memorised street names and routes to each location. Kamal told his interrogators that most of the targeting information came from a reconnaissance team which had selected the targets earlier in the year.
From Rawalpindi, the team then moved to the eastern port of Karachi where they chartered the merchant ship MV Alpha and headed for Bombay.
It was during this crucial phase, as the cargo ship headed into the Arabian Sea, that the terrorists appeared to almost lose their nerve. The Indian navy, Kamal revealed, were very active, boarding foreign vessels and searching their holds. The terrorists thought their plan might be compromised so on the night of 15th/16th November, the teams used their inflatable speed boats to hijack a local fishing boat, the Kuber.
Kamal also admitted to his interrogators that three of the Kuber's four crew were immediately murdered, while the ship's captain was ordered to sail for the Indian coast. When the Kuber was within five miles of the coast, the terrorists slit the captain's throat and transferred back into their inflatable speed boats and headed for the lights of Bombay.
On landing the 10-man team, stripped off their orange wind breakers and began hoisting large heavy packs onto their shoulders.
Kashinath Patil, the 72-year-old harbour master, who spotted the boats moor alongside the harbour wall was immediately suspicious and asked them what they were doing. "I said: 'Where are you going? What's in your bags?'" Mr Patil recalled. "They said: 'We don't want any attention. Don't bother us."
The terrorists then split into two-man teams and launched their attacks.
Major General RK Hooda, the senior Indian commander, acknowledged the group, the Deccan Mujadeen, were better equipped and had a better knowledge of the battleground than India's soldiers.
After the battle, one member of India's National Security Guard, who led one of the assault groups against the terrorists occupying the Taj Mahal hotel, said they were the "best fighters" he had ever encountered.
He said: "They were obviously trained by professionals in urban guerrilla fighting. They used their environment and situation brilliantly, leading us (the NSG) on a dangerous chase through various tiers of the hotel which they obviously knew well. Their fire discipline too was excellent and they used their ammunition judiciously, mostly to draw us out.
"It was amply clear they came to kill a large number of people and to eventually perish in their horrific endeavour," he said. "Negotiating with the Indian authorities or escaping was not an option for them."
Latest death toll 300+!
Mumbai attacks: 300 feared dead as full horror of the terrorist attacks emerges
The death toll in the Mumbai terror attack is expected to soar to nearly 300, Indian officials said, as details emerged of the highly-organised terror plot.
Damien McElroy and Rahul Bedi in Bombay, and Andrew Alderson
Last Updated: 8:54AM GMT 30 Nov 2008
Security services survey a destroyed room inside Photo: GETTY
Indian officials have declared the siege at the hotel over Photo: GETTY
A National Security Guard commando shows victory sign Photo: AP
Many of the rooms in the hotel are burnt out Photo: AP
The body of a suspected militant is taken away at Taj Mahal Palace & Tower Hotel Photo:
Piles of bodies were found yesterday after commandos stormed the Taj Mahal Palace hotel, the last of three buildings that terrorists had occupied in the city. Three terrorists were killed in the battle.
The end to four days of carnage came as tensions grew between India and Pakistan over the atrocity.
It is believed that just 10 highly-trained terrorists took part in the attack. Nine were killed and one suspect is under arrest.
British and Indian authorities were yesterday playing down reports that some of the attackers were British, although this had not been comprehensively ruled out.
The Sunday Telegraph was given the details of a secret interrogation report based on an interview with the surviving terrorist. The 19-year-old suspect, who lived near the Pakistani city of Multan, is said to have joined Lashkar-e-Taiba (LeT), the Islamist fundamentalist group, a year ago. He is alleged to have confessed that he received weapons instruction at a training camp in Pakistan-administered Kashmir. The plot is said to have been planned from there. A group then made a reconnaissance of Bombay earlier this year.
India believes a Pakistani merchant ship was used to transport some, or all, of the terrorists before they seized control of a fishing trawler to reach Mumbai (Bombay). The final leg of their journey was completed in inflatable boats.
Pakistan called an emergency cabinet meeting after announcing that it would not send the country's secret service chief to New Delhi. The Indian government had demanded the head of the ISI travel in person to respond to questions.
Meanwhile, the former head of Britain's SAS has revealed that Britain is not adequately prepared for a Mumbai-style terror attack. He said hundreds of civilians would have been massacred if such an assault was carried out in this country.
The official death toll stands at 174, but authorities acknowledge that scores of bodies have not been included in the total. At least 22 of the dead are not Indian nationals, including a Briton, five US citizens and six Israelis. At least 295 people have been injured. Of those, 23 are foreigners, including several Britons.
A final death toll will not emerge until the end of operations to ensure the hotel rooms and corridors are cleared of booby traps. However, S Jadhav, from Mumbai's disaster management unit, predicted the figure would approach 300.
More than 600 people escaped from the Taj Mahal Palace hotel, the Oberoi-Trident hotel and Nariman House, which were held by the attackers.
Lashkar-e-Taiba, the Islamist fundamentalist group, is being widely blamed for the atrocity. Indian investigators claim to have obtained significant leads to synchronised strikes by gunmen from the testimony of the surviving terrorist.
It is believed he and the other terrorists were instructed at the terror camp in Pakistan on how to maximise the number of casualties during an attack, using machine guns, hand grenades and other weapons.
The terror suspect is said to have claimed that he was joined at his camp by four others, most of whom spoke his native Punjabi. All were allegedly given false names before travelling to the garrison town of Rawalpindi, where they were joined by more terrorists.
At Rawalpindi, the 10-man group was allegedly briefed in detail on digitised images of their prospective targets that included Mumbai's two luxury hotels, the Jewish centre nearby and the teeming Victoria Terminus a short distance away. They were also made to memorise detailed street maps leading to these locations.
The group is then alleged to have travelled by train to the eastern port city of Karachi, where they boarded a chartered merchant ship bound for Mumbai. Three different names have been used by the Indian media for the suspect, but none has been confirmed by city police.
Indian commandos said the attackers had demonstrated professional techniques, firing in short bursts, setting traps and even stocking up with almonds and dried fruit to keep their energy up during the fighting.
Commandos brought 300 people out of the five-star Taj Mahal Palace hotel, where the siege ended early yesterday. Some 250 others were rescued from the Oberoi-Trident hotel and 60 people were brought out of the Jewish centre.
Those rescued included a British couple who were among a group of six people who hid for six hours in a toilet cubicle at the Taj Mahal Palace hotel. At one stage, the terrorists searched the darkened area with a torch but did not see or hear them huddled together.
The Pakistani Government yesterday denied involvement in the terror plot and has promised to help in the investigation. However, Asif Ali Zardari, the President, pledged yesterday that he would act swiftly if given any evidence of involvement by Pakistani nationals. "As president of Pakistan, if any evidence comes of any individual or group in any part of my country, I shall take the swiftest of action in the light of evidence and in front of the world," he said.
A team of British police and security officers is also in Mumbai to help with the inquiry, along with American FBI agents.
Gordon Brown said yesterday that the attack had raised "huge questions" about how the world should address violent extremism.
Speaking in London, the Prime Minister said: "A great multi-faithed democracy has been laid low by terrorists. It raises huge questions about how the world addresses violent extremism."
Fires, explosions and gun battles during the siege devastated the 105-year-old Taj Mahal Palace
hotel. At the height of fighting, hundreds of people, many of them Westerners, were trapped or taken hostage.
Television pictures of a satellite telephone captured from a terrorist appeared to show a constant stream of calls to Pakistan during the operation. Officials also said they had traced the group's route from recorded GPS co-ordinates on the devices.
All the dead terrorists, as well as the captured alleged gunman, appear to have been born in Pakistan. The group also sent eight operatives on a reconnaissance mission to Mumbai earlier this year, Indian officials have claimed.
Security officials, Scotland Yard and diplomats in Britain played down reports yesterday of a British link to the terror plot. A spokesman for the Foreign Office said: "We have been speaking to the Indian authorities at a high level and they say there is no evidence that any of the attackers are British."
The family of Andreas Liveras, 73, the only known British fatality, told The Sunday Telegraph how he courageously evaded gunmen for eight hours in the Taj Mahal Palace hotel as he frantically tried to reassure his family that he was safe. Dion Liveras, the victim's son, said: "Even now, we find it beyond belief that he went out for a quiet meal – and lost his life.
"He had been able to contact us all by telephone and by text. All the time, he was reassuring us that he was okay. Eventually, however, the gunmen got into the room where my father was and sprayed bullets. He died from multiple wounds."
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... o-plan.htm
The audacious attack which took a year to plan
The attack was planned with military precision.
By Rahul Bedi in Bombay and Sean Rayment, Security correspondent
Last Updated: 10:44PM GMT 29 Nov 2008
Preparations for the atrocity may have began a year ago in a remote mountain camp in Kashmir Photo: AP
Ten terrorists dedicated to fighting for an independent Kashmir were selected for an operation from which they were likely never to return.
The tactics were relatively simple: to strike at multiple targets while simultaneously slaughtering as many civilians as possible before going "static" in three of the locations within the city.
But such a plan would require a year of planning, reconnaissance, the covert acquisition of ships and speed boats as well as the forward basing of weapons and ammunition secretly hidden inside at least one hotel.
Nothing would be left to chance. Even the times of the tides were checked and rechecked to ensure that the terrorists would be able to arrive when their first target, the Café Leopold, was full of unsuspecting tourists enjoying the balmy Bombay (Mumbai) evening.
The preparations for the atrocity began a year earlier in a remote mountain camp in Muzaffarabad, in Pakistan- administered Kashmir, according to the interrogation of a 19-year-old believed to be the only member of the terrorist unit to be captured alive.
The Sunday Telegraph has been shown details of the interrogation which provide the first clues to the identity of the terrorists and the amount of detail which went into the planning of the operation.
Kamal has revealed to his interrogators that most of the volunteers spoke his native Punjabi and that all of them were given false names and were discouraged from interacting with each other beyond what was barely necessary.
During the months of training they were taught the use of explosives and close quarter combat. It was ingrained upon every man that ammunition would be in short supply and therefore every bullet should count.
The terrorists were also taught marine commando techniques such as beach landings at another camp at the Mangla Dam, located on the border between Pakistan-administered Kashmir and India's Punjab province.
Kamal revealed that once their training was complete, his team of four travelled to the garrison town of Rawalpindi, where they were joined by another six terrorists, who had been trained at other camps close by.
It was in Rawalpindi that the 10-man team were briefed in detail with digitised images of their prospective targets – the Taj Mahal and Oberoi Hotels, the Jewish Centre and the Victoria Terminus railway station. Each member of the team memorised street names and routes to each location. Kamal told his interrogators that most of the targeting information came from a reconnaissance team which had selected the targets earlier in the year.
From Rawalpindi, the team then moved to the eastern port of Karachi where they chartered the merchant ship MV Alpha and headed for Bombay.
It was during this crucial phase, as the cargo ship headed into the Arabian Sea, that the terrorists appeared to almost lose their nerve. The Indian navy, Kamal revealed, were very active, boarding foreign vessels and searching their holds. The terrorists thought their plan might be compromised so on the night of 15th/16th November, the teams used their inflatable speed boats to hijack a local fishing boat, the Kuber.
Kamal also admitted to his interrogators that three of the Kuber's four crew were immediately murdered, while the ship's captain was ordered to sail for the Indian coast. When the Kuber was within five miles of the coast, the terrorists slit the captain's throat and transferred back into their inflatable speed boats and headed for the lights of Bombay.
On landing the 10-man team, stripped off their orange wind breakers and began hoisting large heavy packs onto their shoulders.
Kashinath Patil, the 72-year-old harbour master, who spotted the boats moor alongside the harbour wall was immediately suspicious and asked them what they were doing. "I said: 'Where are you going? What's in your bags?'" Mr Patil recalled. "They said: 'We don't want any attention. Don't bother us."
The terrorists then split into two-man teams and launched their attacks.
Major General RK Hooda, the senior Indian commander, acknowledged the group, the Deccan Mujadeen, were better equipped and had a better knowledge of the battleground than India's soldiers.
After the battle, one member of India's National Security Guard, who led one of the assault groups against the terrorists occupying the Taj Mahal hotel, said they were the "best fighters" he had ever encountered.
He said: "They were obviously trained by professionals in urban guerrilla fighting. They used their environment and situation brilliantly, leading us (the NSG) on a dangerous chase through various tiers of the hotel which they obviously knew well. Their fire discipline too was excellent and they used their ammunition judiciously, mostly to draw us out.
"It was amply clear they came to kill a large number of people and to eventually perish in their horrific endeavour," he said. "Negotiating with the Indian authorities or escaping was not an option for them."
Latest death toll 300+!
Mumbai attacks: 300 feared dead as full horror of the terrorist attacks emerges
The death toll in the Mumbai terror attack is expected to soar to nearly 300, Indian officials said, as details emerged of the highly-organised terror plot.
Damien McElroy and Rahul Bedi in Bombay, and Andrew Alderson
Last Updated: 8:54AM GMT 30 Nov 2008
Security services survey a destroyed room inside Photo: GETTY
Indian officials have declared the siege at the hotel over Photo: GETTY
A National Security Guard commando shows victory sign Photo: AP
Many of the rooms in the hotel are burnt out Photo: AP
The body of a suspected militant is taken away at Taj Mahal Palace & Tower Hotel Photo:
Piles of bodies were found yesterday after commandos stormed the Taj Mahal Palace hotel, the last of three buildings that terrorists had occupied in the city. Three terrorists were killed in the battle.
The end to four days of carnage came as tensions grew between India and Pakistan over the atrocity.
It is believed that just 10 highly-trained terrorists took part in the attack. Nine were killed and one suspect is under arrest.
British and Indian authorities were yesterday playing down reports that some of the attackers were British, although this had not been comprehensively ruled out.
The Sunday Telegraph was given the details of a secret interrogation report based on an interview with the surviving terrorist. The 19-year-old suspect, who lived near the Pakistani city of Multan, is said to have joined Lashkar-e-Taiba (LeT), the Islamist fundamentalist group, a year ago. He is alleged to have confessed that he received weapons instruction at a training camp in Pakistan-administered Kashmir. The plot is said to have been planned from there. A group then made a reconnaissance of Bombay earlier this year.
India believes a Pakistani merchant ship was used to transport some, or all, of the terrorists before they seized control of a fishing trawler to reach Mumbai (Bombay). The final leg of their journey was completed in inflatable boats.
Pakistan called an emergency cabinet meeting after announcing that it would not send the country's secret service chief to New Delhi. The Indian government had demanded the head of the ISI travel in person to respond to questions.
Meanwhile, the former head of Britain's SAS has revealed that Britain is not adequately prepared for a Mumbai-style terror attack. He said hundreds of civilians would have been massacred if such an assault was carried out in this country.
The official death toll stands at 174, but authorities acknowledge that scores of bodies have not been included in the total. At least 22 of the dead are not Indian nationals, including a Briton, five US citizens and six Israelis. At least 295 people have been injured. Of those, 23 are foreigners, including several Britons.
A final death toll will not emerge until the end of operations to ensure the hotel rooms and corridors are cleared of booby traps. However, S Jadhav, from Mumbai's disaster management unit, predicted the figure would approach 300.
More than 600 people escaped from the Taj Mahal Palace hotel, the Oberoi-Trident hotel and Nariman House, which were held by the attackers.
Lashkar-e-Taiba, the Islamist fundamentalist group, is being widely blamed for the atrocity. Indian investigators claim to have obtained significant leads to synchronised strikes by gunmen from the testimony of the surviving terrorist.
It is believed he and the other terrorists were instructed at the terror camp in Pakistan on how to maximise the number of casualties during an attack, using machine guns, hand grenades and other weapons.
The terror suspect is said to have claimed that he was joined at his camp by four others, most of whom spoke his native Punjabi. All were allegedly given false names before travelling to the garrison town of Rawalpindi, where they were joined by more terrorists.
At Rawalpindi, the 10-man group was allegedly briefed in detail on digitised images of their prospective targets that included Mumbai's two luxury hotels, the Jewish centre nearby and the teeming Victoria Terminus a short distance away. They were also made to memorise detailed street maps leading to these locations.
The group is then alleged to have travelled by train to the eastern port city of Karachi, where they boarded a chartered merchant ship bound for Mumbai. Three different names have been used by the Indian media for the suspect, but none has been confirmed by city police.
Indian commandos said the attackers had demonstrated professional techniques, firing in short bursts, setting traps and even stocking up with almonds and dried fruit to keep their energy up during the fighting.
Commandos brought 300 people out of the five-star Taj Mahal Palace hotel, where the siege ended early yesterday. Some 250 others were rescued from the Oberoi-Trident hotel and 60 people were brought out of the Jewish centre.
Those rescued included a British couple who were among a group of six people who hid for six hours in a toilet cubicle at the Taj Mahal Palace hotel. At one stage, the terrorists searched the darkened area with a torch but did not see or hear them huddled together.
The Pakistani Government yesterday denied involvement in the terror plot and has promised to help in the investigation. However, Asif Ali Zardari, the President, pledged yesterday that he would act swiftly if given any evidence of involvement by Pakistani nationals. "As president of Pakistan, if any evidence comes of any individual or group in any part of my country, I shall take the swiftest of action in the light of evidence and in front of the world," he said.
A team of British police and security officers is also in Mumbai to help with the inquiry, along with American FBI agents.
Gordon Brown said yesterday that the attack had raised "huge questions" about how the world should address violent extremism.
Speaking in London, the Prime Minister said: "A great multi-faithed democracy has been laid low by terrorists. It raises huge questions about how the world addresses violent extremism."
Fires, explosions and gun battles during the siege devastated the 105-year-old Taj Mahal Palace
hotel. At the height of fighting, hundreds of people, many of them Westerners, were trapped or taken hostage.
Television pictures of a satellite telephone captured from a terrorist appeared to show a constant stream of calls to Pakistan during the operation. Officials also said they had traced the group's route from recorded GPS co-ordinates on the devices.
All the dead terrorists, as well as the captured alleged gunman, appear to have been born in Pakistan. The group also sent eight operatives on a reconnaissance mission to Mumbai earlier this year, Indian officials have claimed.
Security officials, Scotland Yard and diplomats in Britain played down reports yesterday of a British link to the terror plot. A spokesman for the Foreign Office said: "We have been speaking to the Indian authorities at a high level and they say there is no evidence that any of the attackers are British."
The family of Andreas Liveras, 73, the only known British fatality, told The Sunday Telegraph how he courageously evaded gunmen for eight hours in the Taj Mahal Palace hotel as he frantically tried to reassure his family that he was safe. Dion Liveras, the victim's son, said: "Even now, we find it beyond belief that he went out for a quiet meal – and lost his life.
"He had been able to contact us all by telephone and by text. All the time, he was reassuring us that he was okay. Eventually, however, the gunmen got into the room where my father was and sprayed bullets. He died from multiple wounds."
Last edited by Philip on 30 Nov 2008 19:21, edited 1 time in total.
-
animesharma
- BRFite
- Posts: 269
- Joined: 29 Nov 2008 20:56
Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III
Israel to send anti-terror experts to India
http://www.rediff.com/news/2008/nov/30m ... xperts.htm
Israeli officials are also trying to figure out which country is behind the attack, what Web sites the attackers used to plan the operation, where they got their instructions from and where was their training held, the news portal said.
The Western look of some of the terrorists has baffled experts and Westerners converting to Islam and joining the global jihad poses a relatively new security challenge, it said.
Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III
CNN-IBN just re-telecasted their Feb 2006 sting operation 'Water Rats' where they easily smuggled empty boxes into Mumbai on boats without anyone questioning them. We surely learn nothing from our past.
Last edited by A Arun on 30 Nov 2008 19:30, edited 1 time in total.
-
animesharma
- BRFite
- Posts: 269
- Joined: 29 Nov 2008 20:56
Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III
just some important parts of your article.Philip wrote:How the diabolic plannning took place in Pak! this reputed UK papaer has been shown details of the interrogation of the captured pig.
*The tactics were relatively simple: to strike at multiple targets while simultaneously slaughtering as many civilians as possible before going "static" in three of the locations within the city.
*Even the times of the tides were checked and rechecked to ensure that the terrorists would be able to arrive when their first target, the Café Leopold, was full of unsuspecting tourists enjoying the balmy Bombay (Mumbai) evening.
*The preparations for the atrocity began a year earlier in a remote mountain camp in Muzaffarabad, in Pakistan- administered Kashmir, according to the interrogation of a 19-year-old believed to be the only member of the terrorist unit to be captured alive.
*The terrorists were also taught marine commando techniques such as beach landings at another camp at the Mangla Dam, located on the border between Pakistan-administered Kashmir and India's Punjab province.
*It was in Rawalpindi that the 10-man team were briefed in detail with digitised images of their prospective targets – the Taj Mahal and Oberoi Hotels, the Jewish Centre and the Victoria Terminus railway station. Each member of the team memorised street names and routes to each location. Kamal told his interrogators that most of the targeting information came from a reconnaissance team which had selected the targets earlier in the year.
*It was during this crucial phase, as the cargo ship headed into the Arabian Sea, that the terrorists appeared to almost lose their nerve. The Indian navy, Kamal revealed, were very active, boarding foreign vessels and searching their holds. The terrorists thought their plan might be compromised so on the night of 15th/16th November, the teams used their inflatable speed boats to hijack a local fishing boat, the Kuber.
*"It was amply clear they came to kill a large number of people and to eventually perish in their horrific endeavour," he said. "Negotiating with the Indian authorities or escaping was not an option for them."
Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III
There are contradictory reports about Kuber being a coast guard vessel or a fishing boat. Did the terrorists ambush a CG vessel or a fishing boat? There are differences in the reports.
Last edited by Abhi_G on 30 Nov 2008 19:29, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III
APOLOGIES IN ADVANCE, DON'T SEND ME TO GUANO BAY PLS! 
I'LL BE SURE TO REMOVE MY SHOES and wear only VIP underwear B4 ENTERING THE GATE OF PRAYER at airport security (aka millimeter wave imaging radar). But let me 
at the small pleasures of life while I can:
I'LL BE SURE TO REMOVE MY SHOES and wear only VIP underwear B4 ENTERING THE GATE OF PRAYER at airport security (aka millimeter wave imaging radar). But let me at the small pleasures of life while I can: FBI team detained at Mumbai airport
Press Trust of India
Sunday, November 30, 2008 7:45 PM (Mumbai)
The seven-member team of the FBI, which arrived on Sunday in a special aircraft in Mumbai in the backdrop of recent terror strikes, was detained due to miscommunication between Delhi and Mumbai airport officials.
According to official sources, the US investigation agency team had come with special forensic equipment that is prohibited.
However, senior officers later (hope with the same rush as the NSG coming to Mumbai) rushed to the spot and resolved the matter.
Five of the FBI officers have already come out of the Mumbai airport while the remaining two will be procuring their equipment back before coming out.
Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III
http://www.ndtv.com/convergence/ndtv/mu ... &type=News
Thursday night, a friend put me in touch with the Director General of the NSG, J K Dutt. I couldn't reach him, nor was I very comfortable trying to call non stop, so I sent him a text message. Apologizing for the intrusion, but letting him know my friend's name, room number and telephone number. I didn't expect a response. He was after all leading 200 of the country's bravest men in one of the worst hostage crises India has ever seen. Through the night, the text messages between my friend, his wife and me continued.
Between fitful hours of sleep and constant checks on my phone, one message early morning- "Have faith. God Bless you all". Almost all the guests of the Oberoi walked out safe on Friday afternoon thanks to the courage of his men.
I know there will be many who say he responded to my message because I am a journalist. But let me set the record straight here on 2 counts. For one, I didn't expect a response. And two, from all I have been told about Mr. Dutt, he responded with the same kindness and compassion to every frantic message he had received in the course of the operation. And I have no words to express what I feel for a man in that position, in that situation who took the trouble to calm nerves.
The attacks are over. The official death toll stands somewhere between 168 and 195. Over 300 injured. The toll includes civilians, terrorists, and the men who tried to save one from the other. The day after its all over, my rage has returned. My sadness is infinite. For 3 days Bombay looked like Beirut. And there's nothing we can do to stop this from happening again. The spirit of Bombay is applauded, Indians are united, and as a public we may be resilient. But this time, what do we do about our anger?
Our political class bickers and blames each other. Our intelligence and security are strapped for resources. Pakistan's new government vacillates between helplessness and defiance against India's charges that the Lashkar-e-Toiba has meticulously carried these attacks out, possibly with the support of Pakistan's Inter Services Intelligence. The Indian government can't formulate a strong response. And the circle continues. Until the next time India is brought to its knees.
Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III
Cover up and destroy evidence team has landed then.narayanan wrote:FBI team detained at Mumbai airport
Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III
FBI team detained at Mumbai airport
Meanwhile the Bewildered team looks all around the Airport to find...
- Welcome to India -
Meanwhile the Bewildered team looks all around the Airport to find...
- Welcome to India -
Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III
Indian air and missile forces on war footing, Pakistani armored units diverted from Afghan border
DEBKAfile's military sources report that on Sunday, Nov. 30, Asia's two nuclear powers, India and Pakistan, took their first steps towards a conventional war. India, claiming evidence of Pakistan's involvement in the Islamist terrorist assault on Mumbai, placed its air and missile units on war preparedness, while Pakistan, disclaiming the charge, diverted its armed divisions from the Afghan border to its frontier with India.
Military experts fear a full-blown war could spill over into combat with tactical nuclear weapons.
For the Indian government, the last straw was the admission by Azam Amir Kasab, aged 21, the only terrorist known to have been captured by Indian forces, that Lashkar e-Taiba was behind the assault which claimed 174 lives, injured hundreds and devastated India's financial capital.
This Kashmiri group has links to both al Qaeda and the Pakistani Inter-Services Intelligence agency.
From its outset on Wednesday, Nov. 26, the scale, coordination and clockwork targeting of the assault clearly betrayed the hand of a major national intelligence agency. Evidence also mounted that the attackers had reached Mumbai by boat from Karachi.
Five months ago, Taliban suicide killers attacked the Indian embassy in Kabul, claiming 60 lives including that of the Indian military attaché. The New Delhi government then found leads to Pakistan's clandestine service as the prime mover behind the outrage. Washington came up with the same proofs.
The Manmohan Singh government sees the Mumbai assault as a second, escalated Pakistani act of war-by-terror and cannot afford to avoid a strong, immediate response - particularly with a general election around the corner next May. If Singh braves the media and public howls for Pakistani blood and shows the same restraint as he did after the Kabul attack, he will lose his seat.
Domestic opinion is goading the New Delhi to act tough after what is perceived as the poor, slow and unprofessional performance of the police and special forces in quelling the terrorists. Indian commandoes were brought in 10 hours after the terrorists took over and it took them 60 hours to finally gain control of the three hostage sites Saturday, Nov. 29. Sunday, home minister Shivraj Patil resigned in response to the clamor followed by national security advisor MK Narayanan.
India and Pakistan have fought three wars and barely avoided a fourth in 2001.
President George Bush and his successor Barack Obama cannot hope for much headway in defusing Indian-Pakistan tension. With only a few weeks left in the White House, Bush does not have much leverage and Obama even less for pulling the two adversaries apart. While campaigning, the president-elect pledged to work to mend the fences between India and Pakistan and broker their Kashmir conflict. In the present climate, neither is looking for a mediator.
Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III
CM deskmukh took his son for the taj tour today. ram gopal varma who was with son also tagged along. he has clarified that he never ever intends to make a film on this issue.
Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III
It was a fishing boat. TV channels reported yesterday that the owner Amar Singh Tandel(who was also killed) had previously spent a year in a Pakistani jail after he was caught fishing in Pakistani waters.Abhi_G wrote:There are contradictory reports about Kuber being a coast guard vessel or a fishing boat. Did the terrorists ambush a CG vessel or a fishing boat? There are differences in the reports.
Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III
For any Americans reading Abhi's post and getting energized like Energizer Bunnies, some explanation is in order.
In 1993, Pakistani terrorists exploded several bombs simultaneously at major business centers around Mumbai, killing over 300 innocents. The Stock Exchange and Air India HQ were two of the targets.
The forensics turned up clear, clear evidence of PAKISTAN GOVERNMENT ORIGIN of the attack. The explosives used, the detonators, EVERYTHING was clearly Pakistan Government.
India did what India is doing now: bleating about "pointers to some foreign government" instead of sending the jet fighters over Islamabad.
The US government sent a kind offer to examine the evidence, using the FBI's State Of The Art Forensic Facilities. India gave the whole package over to them to examine, because, hey, the world's most fair and advanced SuperPower, once convinced, would see and accept what all of us knew then: That Pakistan's Government (same as Military) is Al Qaida, Global Terror Central.
The "evidence" was never seen nor heard from again. So, hey, NO! Indians have no reason to trust the FBI, and every common sense reason NOT to trust them further than they can be thrown.
I agree with the assessment: "Cover-up and Destroy-Evidence Team". No offence to the individual professionals, but their organization's history is depressing, as seen above.
Incidentally, the 1993 attack was the training run for the later explosives used to attack the World Trade Center in New York.
Like the hijacking of the IA airliner, slashing the throat of a passengers to subdue the rest, was the training/ demo run for the 9/11 attacks.
If the American idiots had got their brains out from the low recesses where they seem to store them, 9/11 could have been prevented. But then again, some 30,000+ lives could have been saved in India and elsewhere around the world.
If Pakistan had been flattened in 1993, several million innocents would have been saved.
To Indians, it is very clear that the United States Government has been funding, arming, training, and protecting the Global Terrorist Enterprise for over 40 years, most emphatically in the past 8 years, although the public propaganda is that the US is waging "A War on Terror". The Pakistani terrorist establishment continues to exist ONLY BECAUSE OF US GOVERNMENT PROTECTION.
In 1993, Pakistani terrorists exploded several bombs simultaneously at major business centers around Mumbai, killing over 300 innocents. The Stock Exchange and Air India HQ were two of the targets.
The forensics turned up clear, clear evidence of PAKISTAN GOVERNMENT ORIGIN of the attack. The explosives used, the detonators, EVERYTHING was clearly Pakistan Government.
India did what India is doing now: bleating about "pointers to some foreign government" instead of sending the jet fighters over Islamabad.
The US government sent a kind offer to examine the evidence, using the FBI's State Of The Art Forensic Facilities. India gave the whole package over to them to examine, because, hey, the world's most fair and advanced SuperPower, once convinced, would see and accept what all of us knew then: That Pakistan's Government (same as Military) is Al Qaida, Global Terror Central.
The "evidence" was never seen nor heard from again. So, hey, NO! Indians have no reason to trust the FBI, and every common sense reason NOT to trust them further than they can be thrown.
I agree with the assessment: "Cover-up and Destroy-Evidence Team". No offence to the individual professionals, but their organization's history is depressing, as seen above.
Incidentally, the 1993 attack was the training run for the later explosives used to attack the World Trade Center in New York.
Like the hijacking of the IA airliner, slashing the throat of a passengers to subdue the rest, was the training/ demo run for the 9/11 attacks.
If the American idiots had got their brains out from the low recesses where they seem to store them, 9/11 could have been prevented. But then again, some 30,000+ lives could have been saved in India and elsewhere around the world.
If Pakistan had been flattened in 1993, several million innocents would have been saved.
To Indians, it is very clear that the United States Government has been funding, arming, training, and protecting the Global Terrorist Enterprise for over 40 years, most emphatically in the past 8 years, although the public propaganda is that the US is waging "A War on Terror". The Pakistani terrorist establishment continues to exist ONLY BECAUSE OF US GOVERNMENT PROTECTION.
Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III
http://www.rediff.com/news/2008/nov/30m ... orture.htmDoctors shocked at hostages's torture
They said that just one look at the bodies of the dead hostages as well as terrorists showed it was a battle of attrition that was fought over three days at the Oberoi and the Taj hotels in Mumbai.
Doctors working in a hospital where all the bodies, including that of the terrorists, were taken said they had not seen anything like this in their lives.
"Bombay has a long history of terror. I have seen bodies of riot victims, gang war and previous terror attacks like bomb blasts. But this was entirely different. It was shocking and disturbing," a doctor said.
Asked what was different about the victims of the incident, another doctor said: "It was very strange. I have seen so many dead bodies in my life, and was yet traumatised. A bomb blast victim's body might have been torn apart and could be a very disturbing sight. But the bodies of the victims in this attack bore such signs about the kind of violence of urban warfare that I am still unable to put my thoughts to words," he said.
Asked specifically if he was talking of torture marks, he said: "It was apparent that most of the dead were tortured. What shocked me were the telltale signs showing clearly how the hostages were executed in cold blood," one doctor said.
The other doctor, who had also conducted the post-mortem of the victims, said: "Of all the bodies, the Israeli victims bore the maximum torture marks. It was clear that they were killed on the 26th itself. It was obvious that they were tied up and tortured before they were killed. It was so bad that I do not want to go over the details even in my head again," he said.
Corroborating the doctors' claims about torture was the information that the Intelligence Bureau had about the terror plan. "During his interrogation, Ajmal Kamal said they were specifically asked to target the foreigners, especially the Israelis," an IB source said.
It is also said that the Israeli hostages were killed on the first day as keeping them hostage for too long would have focused too much international attention. "They also might have feared the chances of Israeli security agencies taking over the operations at the Nariman House," he reasoned.
On the other hand, there is enough to suggest that the terrorists also did not meet a clean, death.
The doctors who conducted the post mortem said the bodies of the terrorists were beyond recognition. "Their faces were beyond recognition."
There was no way of identifying them," he said. Asked how, if this is the case, they knew the bodies were indeed those of the terrorists, he said: "The security forces that brought the bodies told us that those were the bodies of the terrorists," he said, adding there was no other way they could have identified the bodies.
An intelligence agency source added: "One of the terrorists was shot through either eye."
A senior National Security Guard officer, who had earlier explained the operation in detail to rediff.com, said the commandos went all out after they ascertained that there were no more hostages left. When asked if the commandos attempted to capture them alive at that stage, he replied: "Unko bachana kaun chahega (Who will want to save them)?"
Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III
I must say this: A war at this juncture with Pakistan will be tremendously counterproductive for India. Bombing the sh1thole Porkistan won't make an iota of a difference. India has ONLY to demand the Le T head with Dawood being delivered to India. It must use it's diplomatic Offices with the US and others to achieve this. This must be hammered at every diplomatic and Government level. This should be India's FIRST precondition to normalcy with this insane country. This MUST be the burden of proof that Zardari and the Paki Govt must deliver to show they are indeed interested in combating terror instead of dishing out the usual platitudes.
India must be consistent in these demands and these must be echoed by the US too in no uncertain words.
India must be consistent in these demands and these must be echoed by the US too in no uncertain words.
Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III
Vengeance has to be slow, painful and lasting. The time for holding moral high ground and being 'but we are civilized onlee' is over. Lets fight fire with fire. Turn on black operation agents all over Pukistan. Or we can start with Kashmir as many suggested here. Pigs, their keepers and their sympathisers should start turning up dead or should disappear, never to be heard of again. Puki hearts should bleed with fear from the cold and calculated strike of the faceless enemy. No questions asked and no answers given. If any one points the finger, keep telling we are also victims of terrorism like you onlee, lets have peaceful chai-biskoot etc. They asked for it, lets give it to them.
Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III
Any Baki civilian gubermund agreeing to these conditions will be eaten alive by ISI-army-mullah nexus.harbans wrote:I must say this: A war at this juncture with Pakistan will be tremendously counterproductive for India. Bombing the sh1thole Porkistan won't make an iota of a difference. India has ONLY to demand the Le T head with Dawood being delivered to India. It must use it's diplomatic Offices with the US and others to achieve this. This must be hammered at every diplomatic and Government level. This should be India's FIRST precondition to normalcy with this insane country. This MUST be the burden of proof that Zardari and the Paki Govt must deliver to show they are indeed interested in combating terror instead of dishing out the usual platitudes.
India must be consistent in these demands and these must be echoed by the US too in no uncertain words.
-
Madhusudhan
- BRFite
- Posts: 137
- Joined: 20 Apr 1999 11:31
Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III
http://www.analyst-network.com/article.php?art_id=2612
We should remember Dr Benkin as an ally of India.
We should remember Dr Benkin as an ally of India.
Radical Islam has been warning the rest of us that it means to re-make our planet in its own image and kill anybody that threatens to stand in its way. Its practitioners have vowed repeatedly to destroy India as an abomination against Islam; yet its leaders act as if they were only kidding. Despite the country experiencing almost non-stop Islamist attacks, the ruling Congress Party maintains a strict policy of non-confrontation with home-grown Muslims who support the radical organizations. It recently showed far more zeal in prosecuting an alleged “Hindu terrorist” after a bomb went off in a predominantly Muslim town.
Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III
Any Baki civilian gubermund agreeing to these conditions will be eaten alive by ISI-army-mullah nexus.
That pressure has to be applied come what may. If they are overriding the civilian govt then pressure to curb their powers and authority must be sustained. One has to work with a sustained and achievable goal. You talk War and i and millions of others will oppose. You will have no consensus and end up in achieving not a single clear cut goal. Aim for accuaracy and achieving something concrete, start small, start clear and start with consensus. Talk of war will end dividing opinion and create politicking that will achieve zilch.
That pressure has to be applied come what may. If they are overriding the civilian govt then pressure to curb their powers and authority must be sustained. One has to work with a sustained and achievable goal. You talk War and i and millions of others will oppose. You will have no consensus and end up in achieving not a single clear cut goal. Aim for accuaracy and achieving something concrete, start small, start clear and start with consensus. Talk of war will end dividing opinion and create politicking that will achieve zilch.
Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III
on grenades at each other.
some confusion there. as far as i understood from dutt, that was between commandos and piglets. piglets were not lobbing grenades at each other. they were lobbing them at commandos who answered back. that is what i understood.
dutt also mentioned that the commanodos were doing controlled blasts to open doors.
i have another question.
remember those weird shoes at choupatty? girlie man wore similar shoes. how did he lose them? mebbe all of them wore similar shoes.
some confusion there. as far as i understood from dutt, that was between commandos and piglets. piglets were not lobbing grenades at each other. they were lobbing them at commandos who answered back. that is what i understood.
dutt also mentioned that the commanodos were doing controlled blasts to open doors.
i have another question.
remember those weird shoes at choupatty? girlie man wore similar shoes. how did he lose them? mebbe all of them wore similar shoes.
Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III
can they get all those persons, and arrest them first. then, ask them on what basis they did it?http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Indi ... 775558.cms While Tata wouldn't elaborate on the nature of the warning, he said security measures — such as making guests walk through a metal detector and not allowing cars to park in the hotel's portico — were eased shortly before Wednesday night's mayhem.
there are links here.. or perhaps on those deciders are the terrorists.
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Indi ... 774025.cms After the attack on a CRPF camp in Rampur, six Lashkar-e-Taiba terrorists, including a Pakistani national, were arrested in Lucknow on February 10 last year while boarding a train to Mumbai. Their interrogation revealed LeT's plan to target key installations in Mumbai, including the Taj, CST and seven other places. TOI Lucknow edition published a report highlighting the details on February 11, 2008.
how do you verify fake passports? paki gov will say, they dont have a person like that in their country?In the story, TOI, quoting top UP ATS and STF officials, said two of the arrested people Faheem and Mohammed Shareef had revealed during interrogation that three of their aides Sabauddin Ahmad of Madhubani in Bihar, Amar Singh of Gujranwala in Pakistan and Abu Sama of Kashmir were in India to carry out terror attacks in Mumbai. Faheem was based in Mumbai and had a fake Pakistani passport, which showed his name as Hammad Hassan
this fcuking thing has to end!!!!!!!!!
Last edited by SaiK on 30 Nov 2008 20:03, edited 2 times in total.
Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Citi ... 776509.cms
Leopold cafe re-opens to mark Mumbai's never-say-die attitude
30 Nov 2008, 1901 hrs IST, PTI
MUMBAI: In a gesture of defiance to the terrorist's will and in support of the city's never-say-die attitude, the Leopold Cafe, where the first chapter of the terror attack unfolded, reopened on Sunday, only to be shut temporarily due to 'security reasons'.
"We had opened it in the afternoon to show them (terrorists) that we have won and not they. But the crowds had become unmanageable as everyone wanted to come in and have a look," Farzad Jehani, the owner of the cafe just behind the Taj Mahal hotel said, adding that their effort is to get going as soon as possible.
Earlier, raising a toast to the re-opening of his favourite cafe, Salim along with his young son, the first customer to enter the 'Leo', as the cafe is fondly called, said, "Come to Leo with hugs and smiles. Nothing to fear as the show must go on."
Looking around, one could easily see the imprints left behind by the terrorists who with their well-thought out act have re-written the history of terrorism in the country.
Bullet riddled thick glass panes and walls, splinter marks, a broken cash counter and a small crater formed as a result of a grenade, are still visible, a testimony to what really happened at the cafe, a favourite with foreign tourists and youngsters.
Describing what happened on the dreadful evening of November 26, Farhang, his brother said, "I was busy upstairs watching Dhoni play along with my brother when we heard a blast. Initially, I thought it was someone trying to play mischief on the road. As I got up from the seat, I heard bullet shots and we ducked."
Farzad chipped in and said that the entire mayhem lasted only for a minute and a half.
"I think it was a diversionary tactic of the terrorists. Two men came in and hurled a grenade first which fell just near the feet of two foreign tourists sitting near the bar," he said.
"This was followed by random shooting. Another foreign couple who were sitting near the entrance were found in a pool of blood along with few other guests," Farzad added.
While two of the cafe staff died on the spot, a third is battling for his life.
"I heard a blast and thought beer bottles had fallen. Then suddenly shots were fired and glass panes broke. We all ran into the kitchen," said Raju, a cafe boy as he opened a cola can for a customer.
Kept on one table are two bags, neatly packed and tagged which belonged to one of the foreign couple who along with other injured were rushed to the hospital by the staff.
"We have gone through all the belongings looking for any contact details and have called many so that the valuables are returned," Farzad said.
When asked if he would get the bullet riddled glass panes and doors changed, he said, "We would definitely want most the damaged things changed but would also like to keep on display some as a remembrance of what happened."
Supporting him is his 67-strong staff who had reported to work at 11 in the morning other than the kitchen staff who arrived early and participated in a Jewish prayer organised at the cafe.
Dressed in a bright red t-shirt with Leopold written on it, a waiter says, "I was so angry that such a thing happened here. We had to reopen as fast as possible to tell the terrorists that we are not cowards to be bowed down by their bullets."
The cafe's aura was enhanced after it was mentioned extensively in roman-a-clef novel 'Shantaram' authored by a convicted Australian bank robber Gregory David Roberts.
Named after an Australian King Leopold, the cafe was first an oil store which opened in 1871 before it took its present form in 1987.
"It is Mumbai and this is how we are. Like a spring which might be pushed down but will also spring back with great vigour," said Farhang summing up the Mumbai spirit.
Leopold cafe re-opens to mark Mumbai's never-say-die attitude
30 Nov 2008, 1901 hrs IST, PTI
MUMBAI: In a gesture of defiance to the terrorist's will and in support of the city's never-say-die attitude, the Leopold Cafe, where the first chapter of the terror attack unfolded, reopened on Sunday, only to be shut temporarily due to 'security reasons'.
"We had opened it in the afternoon to show them (terrorists) that we have won and not they. But the crowds had become unmanageable as everyone wanted to come in and have a look," Farzad Jehani, the owner of the cafe just behind the Taj Mahal hotel said, adding that their effort is to get going as soon as possible.
Earlier, raising a toast to the re-opening of his favourite cafe, Salim along with his young son, the first customer to enter the 'Leo', as the cafe is fondly called, said, "Come to Leo with hugs and smiles. Nothing to fear as the show must go on."
Looking around, one could easily see the imprints left behind by the terrorists who with their well-thought out act have re-written the history of terrorism in the country.
Bullet riddled thick glass panes and walls, splinter marks, a broken cash counter and a small crater formed as a result of a grenade, are still visible, a testimony to what really happened at the cafe, a favourite with foreign tourists and youngsters.
Describing what happened on the dreadful evening of November 26, Farhang, his brother said, "I was busy upstairs watching Dhoni play along with my brother when we heard a blast. Initially, I thought it was someone trying to play mischief on the road. As I got up from the seat, I heard bullet shots and we ducked."
Farzad chipped in and said that the entire mayhem lasted only for a minute and a half.
"I think it was a diversionary tactic of the terrorists. Two men came in and hurled a grenade first which fell just near the feet of two foreign tourists sitting near the bar," he said.
"This was followed by random shooting. Another foreign couple who were sitting near the entrance were found in a pool of blood along with few other guests," Farzad added.
While two of the cafe staff died on the spot, a third is battling for his life.
"I heard a blast and thought beer bottles had fallen. Then suddenly shots were fired and glass panes broke. We all ran into the kitchen," said Raju, a cafe boy as he opened a cola can for a customer.
Kept on one table are two bags, neatly packed and tagged which belonged to one of the foreign couple who along with other injured were rushed to the hospital by the staff.
"We have gone through all the belongings looking for any contact details and have called many so that the valuables are returned," Farzad said.
When asked if he would get the bullet riddled glass panes and doors changed, he said, "We would definitely want most the damaged things changed but would also like to keep on display some as a remembrance of what happened."
Supporting him is his 67-strong staff who had reported to work at 11 in the morning other than the kitchen staff who arrived early and participated in a Jewish prayer organised at the cafe.
Dressed in a bright red t-shirt with Leopold written on it, a waiter says, "I was so angry that such a thing happened here. We had to reopen as fast as possible to tell the terrorists that we are not cowards to be bowed down by their bullets."
The cafe's aura was enhanced after it was mentioned extensively in roman-a-clef novel 'Shantaram' authored by a convicted Australian bank robber Gregory David Roberts.
Named after an Australian King Leopold, the cafe was first an oil store which opened in 1871 before it took its present form in 1987.
"It is Mumbai and this is how we are. Like a spring which might be pushed down but will also spring back with great vigour," said Farhang summing up the Mumbai spirit.
Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III
This Political class is so disgusting. I saw the video clip of this B grade actor along with his C grade politician dad take a tour of the Taj.
These people have no shame. They belong in the dustbin of history.
Deputy CM RR Patil doesn't see the necessisity of his resigning after his verbal diarrahea. Raj Thackeray has the guts to attend the funeral of Hemant Karkare. He should have been barred from attending at the very least.
These people have no shame. They belong in the dustbin of history.
Deputy CM RR Patil doesn't see the necessisity of his resigning after his verbal diarrahea. Raj Thackeray has the guts to attend the funeral of Hemant Karkare. He should have been barred from attending at the very least.
Last edited by Pranay on 30 Nov 2008 20:15, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III
Come on, all it took was one terrorist on the staff to call and say:
And it is clear that the ammo-smuggling etc. had already occurred long before the security alert went in. The question to ask is, who did the cleaning of Room 630, and is it usual for hotel rooms to have so many boxes inside? But then, remember, this is a place where the Very Rich and Very Powerful stay, so the staff are trained not to ask questions at goings-on that would bring immediate manager attention at any small motel.
Maybe the terrorists were dressed as Houris, with the blonde wigs and fat asses and all.
The Taj is (was?) a HOTEL, and they would naturally bring down security to as unobtrusive a level as possible. Banning cars from the front entrance is not something a 5-star hotel can keep doing, unless there is an imminent threat.
as the code to say "all clear on security".Time for the Glory of Allah!
And it is clear that the ammo-smuggling etc. had already occurred long before the security alert went in. The question to ask is, who did the cleaning of Room 630, and is it usual for hotel rooms to have so many boxes inside? But then, remember, this is a place where the Very Rich and Very Powerful stay, so the staff are trained not to ask questions at goings-on that would bring immediate manager attention at any small motel.
Maybe the terrorists were dressed as Houris, with the blonde wigs and fat asses and all.
The Taj is (was?) a HOTEL, and they would naturally bring down security to as unobtrusive a level as possible. Banning cars from the front entrance is not something a 5-star hotel can keep doing, unless there is an imminent threat.
Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III
I agree with you that an open war will not achieve anything concrete. Even increasing troop concentration at LOC is only going to serve the purpose of projecting an image of 'angry India'. Anything worthwhile will be achieved only by arm twisting Munna in the international arena diplomatically. But this has been India's SOP against Baki terror over the years and everyone knows what we have achieved so far. All I am trying to say is lets keep up the pressure on the diplomatic front as always and at the same time start looking for other solutions like covert actions or whatever it takes to get the desired results.harbans wrote:Any Baki civilian gubermund agreeing to these conditions will be eaten alive by ISI-army-mullah nexus.
That pressure has to be applied come what may. If they are overriding the civilian govt then pressure to curb their powers and authority must be sustained. One has to work with a sustained and achievable goal. You talk War and i and millions of others will oppose. You will have no consensus and end up in achieving not a single clear cut goal. Aim for accuaracy and achieving something concrete, start small, start clear and start with consensus. Talk of war will end dividing opinion and create politicking that will achieve zilch.
Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III
My fav.FBI team detained at Mumbai airport
Press Trust of India
Sunday, November 30, 2008 7:45 PM (Mumbai)
The seven-member team of the FBI, which arrived on Sunday in a special aircraft in Mumbai in the backdrop of recent terror strikes, was detained due to miscommunication between Delhi and Mumbai airport officials.
According to official sources, the US investigation agency team had come with special forensic equipment that is prohibited.
However, senior officers later rushed to the spot and resolved the matter.
Five of the FBI officers have already come out of the Mumbai airport while the remaining two will be procuring their equipment back before coming out.
I have no idea what I would do the day these officials stop rushing. The world would stop spinning I guess.
Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III
"Revenge is a dish best eaten cold",goes the saying.The security alert/stsus is only understandable as the GOI cannot know what other immediate terror attacks are in the offing.This ,as I've said before is clearly designed to get paki forces away from the Afghan border in "full strength" against India,allowing the Taliban to go after US/NATO forces losing and on the retreat there,so that they achieve two objectives simultaneously.Winning Afghanistan again through the proxy the Taliban and scuttling the entire Indo-Pak peace initiatives over the last year after Gen.Musharrat was sent into ""retirement.From this outrage,it is very clear that he is far from retired.
However,the time is long past when India should organise a massive covert war against pak.We must send "anti-Pak Afghan mujahids" to destroy the Karakorum Highway's key bridges,etc.,blow up strategic rail and road bridges in the Punjab and Sindh and pursue a full independent Baluchistan with the help of Iran,who also hate the Paki military.Forget about the Indo-Pak-Iran pipeline from now on.As I've said before,get the gas through a fleet of gas tankers.Time to plan for the destruction of the Paki navy and the blockade of Karachi and the paki coast.
Another fact emerges from another report.
"The gunmen set the 105-year-old hotel ablaze as they evaded scores of India's best-trained commandos. They left bodies with grenades stuffed into their mouths."
The attackers also tortured their hostages,seeking out in their rooms,accorind to the forensic experts.
However,the time is long past when India should organise a massive covert war against pak.We must send "anti-Pak Afghan mujahids" to destroy the Karakorum Highway's key bridges,etc.,blow up strategic rail and road bridges in the Punjab and Sindh and pursue a full independent Baluchistan with the help of Iran,who also hate the Paki military.Forget about the Indo-Pak-Iran pipeline from now on.As I've said before,get the gas through a fleet of gas tankers.Time to plan for the destruction of the Paki navy and the blockade of Karachi and the paki coast.
Another fact emerges from another report.
"The gunmen set the 105-year-old hotel ablaze as they evaded scores of India's best-trained commandos. They left bodies with grenades stuffed into their mouths."
The attackers also tortured their hostages,seeking out in their rooms,accorind to the forensic experts.
Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III
My response for what Indian needs to do now to respond to Pakistan would be as follows:
Priority 1: Launch Air strikes at terror camps (I know that these are just a couple mud huts) But there are military garrisons next to them where Pak Army officers train them terrorists.
This does not have to be an all out attack, specific strikes on a few dozen targets only. Then wait for the other side to escalate. Half of their backup troops are on the other side of the border, and will take 1 week + to come to the eastern front. Their main strike elements were always here.
If pakistan dares to escalate, escalate stepwise as they do, and inflict controlled heavy damage to their armed forces.
Advance the LOC Westwards
The Navy should take out at least one Agosta 90b and cripple another. This can be done either in the thick of battle or later (See Below)
The international community will try to settle things down, but will not be able to deny indian reasoning. China's passes with India on the himalayas are snowed out NOW, china will not be able to make much distracting land moves across the LAC or the International Border.
2. If MMS does not have the balls for this offensive, There is yet another option. The Sly Hindu way - forgive the pun.
Pakistan is a nation that is overawed by India - wants credibility within india. We NEED to taunt it, prick it, pinch it where it hurts.
I get the feeling that One 5 star hotel blowing up lead them to target two of ours. So reply in kind, with the aim of dismembering this nation as the ultimate goal, spreading widespread chaos and economic bankruptcy and mayhem as an intermediate goal.
The Navy or the Airforce can hurt them by doing an Atlantique on them, taunt them-draw them out and kill them. Again aim for where it hurts them the most - The new agostas, Recon Aircraft that they've procured etc.
For this RAW will have to be re-energized, coffers will have to be opened.
3. Protect ourselves from the next attack - because there is one coming in a few months.
All this crap about police reforms - At least Fckuing fill up the enormous vacancies that there are in the police force. This is the biggest problem - the police are first of all inadequately staffed, THEN inadequately equipped. The government sloth is the obstacle against timely recruitment, low priority by the state governments towards the security apparatus is the reason behind the ill equipped force - money will have to be diverted from useless (Netaon Ki) garibi hatao schemes.
JMHO
Priority 1: Launch Air strikes at terror camps (I know that these are just a couple mud huts) But there are military garrisons next to them where Pak Army officers train them terrorists.
This does not have to be an all out attack, specific strikes on a few dozen targets only. Then wait for the other side to escalate. Half of their backup troops are on the other side of the border, and will take 1 week + to come to the eastern front. Their main strike elements were always here.
If pakistan dares to escalate, escalate stepwise as they do, and inflict controlled heavy damage to their armed forces.
Advance the LOC Westwards
The Navy should take out at least one Agosta 90b and cripple another. This can be done either in the thick of battle or later (See Below)
The international community will try to settle things down, but will not be able to deny indian reasoning. China's passes with India on the himalayas are snowed out NOW, china will not be able to make much distracting land moves across the LAC or the International Border.
2. If MMS does not have the balls for this offensive, There is yet another option. The Sly Hindu way - forgive the pun.
Pakistan is a nation that is overawed by India - wants credibility within india. We NEED to taunt it, prick it, pinch it where it hurts.
I get the feeling that One 5 star hotel blowing up lead them to target two of ours. So reply in kind, with the aim of dismembering this nation as the ultimate goal, spreading widespread chaos and economic bankruptcy and mayhem as an intermediate goal.
The Navy or the Airforce can hurt them by doing an Atlantique on them, taunt them-draw them out and kill them. Again aim for where it hurts them the most - The new agostas, Recon Aircraft that they've procured etc.
For this RAW will have to be re-energized, coffers will have to be opened.
3. Protect ourselves from the next attack - because there is one coming in a few months.
All this crap about police reforms - At least Fckuing fill up the enormous vacancies that there are in the police force. This is the biggest problem - the police are first of all inadequately staffed, THEN inadequately equipped. The government sloth is the obstacle against timely recruitment, low priority by the state governments towards the security apparatus is the reason behind the ill equipped force - money will have to be diverted from useless (Netaon Ki) garibi hatao schemes.
JMHO
Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III
Yes, Just looked at the text, there are many sanskatized words eg ("युवक , आंतंकवादी, अत्याचार" ) and "machine translated" words. Then there are words like दिन spelled as दीन.Gerard wrote:text of the Deccan Mujahideen email
http://svaradarajan.blogspot.com/
I just read the Deccan Mujahideen email. It is so full of basic spelling mistakes that it has clearly been machine transliterated. No native speaker of the language was on hand to correct the obvious bloomers.....
Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III
Attacks Imperil Delicate U.S. Role Between Rivals
By MARK MAZZETTI and PETER BAKER
Published: November 29, 2008
WASHINGTON— As evidence mounts that last week’s attacks in Mumbai may have originated on Pakistani soil, American officials’ aggressive campaign to strike at militants in Pakistan may complicate efforts to prevent an Indian military response, which could lead to a conflict between the bitter enemies.
In December 2001, when Pakistani militants attacked India’s Parliament, and again this summer, when militants aided by Pakistani spies bombed the Indian Embassy in Afghanistan, the Bush administration used aggressive diplomacy to dampen anger in New Delhi.
This time, however, the Indian government might not be so receptive to the American message — and that could derail the coming Obama administration’s hopes of creating a broader, regional response to the threat posed by Al Qaeda and the Taliban. Prime Minister Manmohan Singh has already faced months of criticism from political rivals in India about his government’s decision not to respond forcefully to past acts of terrorism, and domestic anger over the carnage in Mumbai has increased the pressure on his government to strike back.
Officials in New Delhi might also feel less compelled to follow calls for a controlled response from the Bush administration, which has steadily escalated a campaign of airstrikes on Pakistani soil using remotely piloted aircraft. The Pentagon has even sent Special Operations forces into Pakistan to attack suspected militant targets, partly in an attempt to stop the militants from crossing the border into Afghanistan, where they are helping fuel an increasingly robust Taliban insurgency.
The White House has adopted a clear position to justify those attacks: if a country cannot deal with a terrorism problem on its own, the United States reserves the right to act unilaterally.
Should it become clear that the men who rampaged through Mumbai trained in Pakistan, even if the Pakistani government had no hand in the operation, what will stop the Indians from adopting the same position?
“In some ways, it doesn’t even matter whether this attack was hatched in some office in Islamabad,” said Paul Kapur, a South Asia expert at the Naval Postgraduate School in Monterey, Calif., and Stanford University. “The provocation in this case is orders of magnitude more than anything that’s happened before.”
Even if the Bush administration can keep the situation from escalating, President-elect Barack Obama will find his administration trying to broker cooperation between two aroused and suspicious regional powers.
An important element of Mr. Obama’s plan to reduce militancy in Pakistan and turn around the war in Afghanistan has been to push for a reconciliation between India and Pakistan, so that the Pakistani government could focus its energy on the tribal areas bordering Afghanistan that are controlled by Islamic extremists.
Mr. Obama’s advisers have spent the past few days watching the unfolding crisis for hints about how the situation might look after Jan. 20. While they said they understand that the tensions unleashed by the Mumbai attacks might hobble the new president’s aspirations, they held out hope that the attacks might, instead, open the door to increased cooperation between Pakistan and India to weed out militants intent on more attacks.
Some in the Bush administration, as well as outside experts, agree that an Indian military response is not a foregone conclusion. Mr. Singh’s government has long believed that the instability caused by a conflict with Pakistan would act as a brake on the rapid economic growth India has enjoyed. Mr. Singh has also seen Pakistan’s new civilian government as a hopeful departure from the militarism of President Pervez Musharraf’s government.
Washington could use Mr. Singh’s past hopes for better relations to try to shape a modulated Indian response. Bruce Hoffman, a terrorism expert at Georgetown University, said one possibility was that the Indian government could decide to strike Kashmiri militant training facilities in Pakistan’s Federally Administered Tribal Areas, rather than facilities in the heart of the disputed territory of Kashmir, where Pakistan’s government has a greater presence.
Ahmed Rashid, a Pakistani author whose work has been studied by the Obama team, said that any hint of a military mobilization by the Indians will give the Pakistani military the excuse it wants to shift forces away from its western border areas and back to its eastern border. If that happens, he said, it could cause a repeat of 2002, when a standoff between the nations forced the United States to turn at least some of its attention away from fighting the Taliban and Al Qaeda to work to avoid war between Pakistan and India.
That time, the impetus was an assault on the Indian Parliament in December 2001 that India said was the work of Kashmiri militants.
So far, Mr. Obama has tried to walk a careful line during the latest crisis, expressing support and concern without appearing to get in the way of President Bush. Even as Mr. Obama was preparing to host several dozen guests for Thanksgiving dinner on Thursday, a foreign policy adviser, Mark Lippert, and a Central Intelligence Agency official arrived at his house in Chicago to brief him on the latest from Mumbai, according to an aide. Mr. Obama ushered them into a side room as the rest of the house buzzed with dinner preparations.
Mr. Obama also called Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice three times over the last few days seeking information. But he waited until after Mr. Bush called Mr. Singh to place his own call to the Indian prime minister late Friday night. (The call was patched through the State Department operations center.)
Advisers to the president-elect said that while they were not aware of everything the Bush administration has done during the crisis, they knew of nothing that Mr. Obama would have necessarily done differently.
Given the disastrous implications of any armed conflict between India and Pakistan, it is not hard to envision the Obama administration following a similar playbook to the one the Bush administration followed during the two countries’ occasional flare-ups.
As some experts see it, though, there is a danger in the United States’ continuing to intervene directly when tensions between India and Pakistan escalate.
“If both sides think they can afford to go closer to the edge because the U.S. is always going to keep them from going over,” said Mr. Kapur, “then they are more likely to edge up to the precipice.”
Mark Mazzetti reported from Washington, and Peter Baker from Chicago.
By MARK MAZZETTI and PETER BAKER
Published: November 29, 2008
WASHINGTON— As evidence mounts that last week’s attacks in Mumbai may have originated on Pakistani soil, American officials’ aggressive campaign to strike at militants in Pakistan may complicate efforts to prevent an Indian military response, which could lead to a conflict between the bitter enemies.
In December 2001, when Pakistani militants attacked India’s Parliament, and again this summer, when militants aided by Pakistani spies bombed the Indian Embassy in Afghanistan, the Bush administration used aggressive diplomacy to dampen anger in New Delhi.
This time, however, the Indian government might not be so receptive to the American message — and that could derail the coming Obama administration’s hopes of creating a broader, regional response to the threat posed by Al Qaeda and the Taliban. Prime Minister Manmohan Singh has already faced months of criticism from political rivals in India about his government’s decision not to respond forcefully to past acts of terrorism, and domestic anger over the carnage in Mumbai has increased the pressure on his government to strike back.
Officials in New Delhi might also feel less compelled to follow calls for a controlled response from the Bush administration, which has steadily escalated a campaign of airstrikes on Pakistani soil using remotely piloted aircraft. The Pentagon has even sent Special Operations forces into Pakistan to attack suspected militant targets, partly in an attempt to stop the militants from crossing the border into Afghanistan, where they are helping fuel an increasingly robust Taliban insurgency.
The White House has adopted a clear position to justify those attacks: if a country cannot deal with a terrorism problem on its own, the United States reserves the right to act unilaterally.
Should it become clear that the men who rampaged through Mumbai trained in Pakistan, even if the Pakistani government had no hand in the operation, what will stop the Indians from adopting the same position?
“In some ways, it doesn’t even matter whether this attack was hatched in some office in Islamabad,” said Paul Kapur, a South Asia expert at the Naval Postgraduate School in Monterey, Calif., and Stanford University. “The provocation in this case is orders of magnitude more than anything that’s happened before.”
Even if the Bush administration can keep the situation from escalating, President-elect Barack Obama will find his administration trying to broker cooperation between two aroused and suspicious regional powers.
An important element of Mr. Obama’s plan to reduce militancy in Pakistan and turn around the war in Afghanistan has been to push for a reconciliation between India and Pakistan, so that the Pakistani government could focus its energy on the tribal areas bordering Afghanistan that are controlled by Islamic extremists.
Mr. Obama’s advisers have spent the past few days watching the unfolding crisis for hints about how the situation might look after Jan. 20. While they said they understand that the tensions unleashed by the Mumbai attacks might hobble the new president’s aspirations, they held out hope that the attacks might, instead, open the door to increased cooperation between Pakistan and India to weed out militants intent on more attacks.
Some in the Bush administration, as well as outside experts, agree that an Indian military response is not a foregone conclusion. Mr. Singh’s government has long believed that the instability caused by a conflict with Pakistan would act as a brake on the rapid economic growth India has enjoyed. Mr. Singh has also seen Pakistan’s new civilian government as a hopeful departure from the militarism of President Pervez Musharraf’s government.
Washington could use Mr. Singh’s past hopes for better relations to try to shape a modulated Indian response. Bruce Hoffman, a terrorism expert at Georgetown University, said one possibility was that the Indian government could decide to strike Kashmiri militant training facilities in Pakistan’s Federally Administered Tribal Areas, rather than facilities in the heart of the disputed territory of Kashmir, where Pakistan’s government has a greater presence.
Ahmed Rashid, a Pakistani author whose work has been studied by the Obama team, said that any hint of a military mobilization by the Indians will give the Pakistani military the excuse it wants to shift forces away from its western border areas and back to its eastern border. If that happens, he said, it could cause a repeat of 2002, when a standoff between the nations forced the United States to turn at least some of its attention away from fighting the Taliban and Al Qaeda to work to avoid war between Pakistan and India.
That time, the impetus was an assault on the Indian Parliament in December 2001 that India said was the work of Kashmiri militants.
So far, Mr. Obama has tried to walk a careful line during the latest crisis, expressing support and concern without appearing to get in the way of President Bush. Even as Mr. Obama was preparing to host several dozen guests for Thanksgiving dinner on Thursday, a foreign policy adviser, Mark Lippert, and a Central Intelligence Agency official arrived at his house in Chicago to brief him on the latest from Mumbai, according to an aide. Mr. Obama ushered them into a side room as the rest of the house buzzed with dinner preparations.
Mr. Obama also called Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice three times over the last few days seeking information. But he waited until after Mr. Bush called Mr. Singh to place his own call to the Indian prime minister late Friday night. (The call was patched through the State Department operations center.)
Advisers to the president-elect said that while they were not aware of everything the Bush administration has done during the crisis, they knew of nothing that Mr. Obama would have necessarily done differently.
Given the disastrous implications of any armed conflict between India and Pakistan, it is not hard to envision the Obama administration following a similar playbook to the one the Bush administration followed during the two countries’ occasional flare-ups.
As some experts see it, though, there is a danger in the United States’ continuing to intervene directly when tensions between India and Pakistan escalate.
“If both sides think they can afford to go closer to the edge because the U.S. is always going to keep them from going over,” said Mr. Kapur, “then they are more likely to edge up to the precipice.”
Mark Mazzetti reported from Washington, and Peter Baker from Chicago.