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Re: Two-G (2G) Spectrum Scam Tapes and follow-up
Posted: 16 Dec 2010 12:03
by rkirankr
Muppalla wrote:
So the validation for what I wrote is coming via mainstream media. I don't even need to say that I collected from blogs and chatter. Digvijay is very very frustrated and he is now vomiting.

Mupalla,
If this is the case , why couldn't it help NDA to power in 2009? Just curious.
Re: Two-G (2G) Spectrum Scam Tapes and follow-up
Posted: 16 Dec 2010 12:40
by Rahul Mehta
ShivaS wrote:Rahul Mehata is the Man of the year of BR. He has been shouting from t he roof tops how entrenched the corruption is in Indian public life. The sapte of Armed forces involved in scams is also shocking and takes the sheen away from the utopian notion that there are institutions that are still intact and islands of integrity. Keep it up Rahul, one day one day a visionary leader will emerge and rescue India, I hope it will be during my life time...
Thanks

. AWMTA

.
Admins, can you copy abive post to "Best posts thread"? TIA.
Re: Two-G (2G) Spectrum Scam Tapes and follow-up
Posted: 16 Dec 2010 12:41
by Rahul Mehta
Mauli wrote:Are Atal and Advani Ram-Laxman?. Do you think Ranjan B. and Pramod Mahajan collected money without the consent from Atal Ji?.
Every bribe that Pramod, Jetley, Shorie and Ranjan took, ABVl\LKA had a cut in it, varying from 80% to 25%. Atal was second most corrupt bribe seeking PM India had, first being MMS. But ABV does beat MMS in ND-Tiwari-giri. LKA too made truckloads of bribes when he was HomeMin. One of the biggest killings he made was bribes he got from Sauds to stall National ID system, because National ID system can reduce Bangladeshis infiltration by as much as 95%. Sauds see BD-infiltration as a key strategy to wrest NE in their hands, and so were willing to pay any amount to LKA to block National ID system. LKA sold out and ensured that NID doesnt get implemented, and BD infiltration goes on and on. Of course, BJP-lovers will now claim that "it was NDA govt and not BJP govt". So much for taking responsibilities. Well, try explaining Tiwari-giri of ABV. Was that also due to coalition politics?
Christopher Sidor wrote:Supreme court has given an order to monitor the CBI probe into 2G spectrum. But the meat of the news is that this probe will also include the 2000/2001 decision to provide USAL licenses to Reliance and TATA. Guys you have to hand it to the congress. If Manmohan and Pranab are going to questioned in any investigation then so will Atal and Advani also. While BJP might hang Promod Mahajan as well as Arun Shourie, it is going to be very skittish about the two stalwarts of BJP. Reliance and TATA will now fight tooth and nail against any significant decision to clean up the 2G mess. And they will have the backing of some very very powerful entrenched economic interests. We can now expect the BJP to stop stalling the parliament. Without BJPs support the other opposition parties will be toothless and not be able to do much. Even if a JPC probe is constituted, Congress and BJP will make sure that it is a meaningless exercise, whose mandate will be restricted and whose power is even more limited. I even expect that the 2G furor will be suppressed by the next years budget session. It will be business as usual with people in power and with corruption as norm. Strom in a tea cup as they say.
All in all, BJP leaders will settle for 10% to 25% of bribes Congress made in CWG/2G and then they will keep quiet. If anyone has an iota of seriousness in fighting against corruption, I firmly request him not to waste a millisecond of time in following any of the corrupt BJP leaders, corrupt Congress leaders, corrupt CPM leaders etc. Each and every of these corruption kings and princes have so many corrupt deals in their cupboards and each will mellow down when probe on his deals starts, and our efforts will all go in vain. Christopher is correct --- corrupt BJP leaders will soon give up their jehaad against corruption when they are questioned in public about their omission and commission, because each one of them had taken busloads of bribes in NDA regime.
The system is rotten beyond repair from inside. None of the insider wants to fix it and has no b1lls to fight against corruption kings. Most they will ask for is change of faces like replacing one corrupt Chavan with another corruot Chavan, and replacing corrupt Raja with corrupt Sibal.
ShivaS wrote:Rahul Mehata is the Man of the year of BR. He has been shouting from t he roof tops how entrenched the corruption is in Indian public life. The sapte of Armed forces involved in scams is also shocking and takes the sheen away from the utopian notion that there are institutions that are still intact and islands of integrity. Keep it up Rahul, one day one day a visionary leader will emerge and rescue India, I hope it will be during my life time...
Thanks

. AWMTA

.
Admins, can you copy above post of ShivaS to the "Best posts thread"? TIA.
Re: Two-G (2G) Spectrum Scam Tapes and follow-up
Posted: 16 Dec 2010 13:12
by Philip
What did Burke supposedly say? "For evil to flourish it is only neccessary for good men to do nothing".
So what do we do with the scamsters that abound in every party in the country? It is not that ther BJP was not corrupt,but Congress corruption under MMS has reached Himalyan heights.Where did I read a few days ago about Nehru sacking a much-beloved colleague for taking a Rs. 10,000 bribe?! How low have our politicians fallen.The soap-opera of the Karunanidhi family is the stuff of legend.A national calamity that it is a "reality show".
Recently,a service officer asked me why people like myself,ordinary decent folk around the country,didn't take to politics-which is why the country is in such a state said he.I had to keep quiet.Why do we shun from taking the plunge? One reason is that to fight an election and get oneself "heard",one needs to be a multi-crorepathi.The tales are common of how candidates are chosen by the mainstream parties depending upon how many hundreds of jeeps/SUVs he can muster for the aprty,apart from money.Ideology has almost disappeared from Indian politics.The cut-down-to-size Communist entities are playing the tied old tunes of Marx and Lenin for perhaps the last time.These tunes are hardly played even in erstwhile Communist Russia!
Therefore,if we are to follow Rahul's advice,we-the literate,educated supposedly intelligent Indians,need to educate the masses and vote elsewhere,but where and for whom? I don't have any easy answers but can only say that a bold,new,dynamic leadership across the country is needed,with men and women of vision and integrity-perhaps even a new party for Middle-India.
Re: Two-G (2G) Spectrum Scam Tapes and follow-up
Posted: 16 Dec 2010 13:34
by amit
This report should put to rest persistent rumors that Radia was allowed to flee to London.
A team of 10 CBI officers and two Enforcement Directorate officials raided the south Delhi residence of Radia around 7am and questioned her for over 10 hours. The office of Vaishnavi Communications in central Delhi, which Radia heads, was also raided. “We asked her about the phone conversations as well,” an officer said.
Re: Two-G (2G) Spectrum Scam Tapes and follow-up
Posted: 16 Dec 2010 14:41
by anmol
Christopher Sidor wrote:Supreme court has given an order to monitor the CBI probe into 2G spectrum. But the meat of the news is that this probe will also include the 2000/2001 decision to provide USAL licenses to Reliance and TATA.
Guys you have to hand it to the congress. If Manmohan and Pranab are going to questioned in any investigation then so will Atal and Advani also. While BJP might hang Promod Mahajan as well as Arun Shourie, it is going to be very skittish about the two stalwarts of BJP. Reliance and TATA will now fight tooth and nail against any significant decision to clean up the 2G mess. And they will have the backing of some very very powerful entrenched economic interests.
We can now expect the BJP to stop stalling the parliament. Without BJPs support the other opposition parties will be toothless and not be able to do much. Even if a JPC probe is constituted, Congress and BJP will make sure that it is a meaningless exercise, whose mandate will be restricted and whose power is even more limited.
I even expect that the 2G furor will be suppressed by the next years budget session. It will be business as usual with people in power and with corruption as norm. Strom in a tea cup as they say.
UASL(not USAL) license weren't given in 2000/01.This started in 2001 when on TRAI recommendation auctions took place for full mobility, in which GSM operators paid exorbitant amounts(for that period of time) to get 4th operator license and for limited mobility license which allowed Basic Service Operator to offer Wireless In Local Loop in which a mobile connection works only in local loop. Things were fine until Reliance(which paid lower amount for WLL) started providing services. Reliance by exploiting a loophole managed to provide full mobile service by switching connections of their costumers when they left on loop and entered another. Calls made to connections were transferred to another connection when costumers switched loops.
So TRAI recommended such BSOs to pay penalty for providing "full mobile service" for which they didn't have license. Reliance contested this in TDSAT, but the court upheld the decision. Later TRAI proposed "UASL" at the end 2003 which BJP later on implemented. This UASL is not mandatory, but BSOs were allowed to convert to it by paying amount similar to what GSM companies like Bharti paid in full mobility auction. This was in addition to the initial amount for WLL and the penalty imposed by TRAI/TDSAT.
For comparison purpose Bharti a GSM operator paid following amount in 2001 auction, while in other circles they either bought companies for tens or hundred of crores or had received license during early 90s for pittance :-
Mumbai Rs. 203.66 crore
Tamil Nadu Rs. 79.00 crore
Kerala Rs. 40.54 crore
U.P.(West) Rs. 30.55 crore
Haryana Rs. 21.46 crore
MP Rs. 17.45 crore
Compare this with Rs. 1622 Reliance paid after Trai/Tdsat recommendation. Did they pay less ?
Now if BJP's Arun Shouri or Jaswant will be called by JPC or maybe Supreme Court, they can say that they took decision on TRAI/TDSAT recommendation. OTOH Raja/Cong/DMK did "First Come First Serve" against recommendation of many babus.
That is why this is how BJP have reacted to demands for JPC/ SC investigation in its tenure :-
New Delhi, Dec 9 (IANS) The Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP) Thursday welcomed the Supreme Court widening the 2G spectrum allotment probe to 2001, but said it would continue to press for a JPC probe into the scam during parliament’s budget session early next year.
“The Supreme Court yesterday extended the ambit of probe into the 2G spectrum controversy to decisions taken in 2001. We welcome it,” BJP leader S.S. Ahluwalia told reporters here.
Despite the Supreme Court directive, the opposition has been unrelenting in its demand for a Joint Parliamentary Committee (JPC)
probe into the scam, stalling the winter session of parliament which began Nov 9 for the 20th successive day Thursday. There are just two more days to the session.
According to Ahluwalia, during the meeting of Finance Minister Pranab Mukherjee with opposition parties Nov 22 on the demand for a JPC probe, the DMK representative had said that his party had no problems with this provided it examines the telecom ministry’s decisions from 1998.
“We had agreed to the suggestion,” Ahluwalia said.
He said the AIADMK representative said the probe should start from 1994 and his party had agreed to that demand too.
“We demand that the entire inquiry be done by a JPC. There is no such provision that if the CBI (Central Bureau of Investigation) is looking into a case, then JPC cannot look into it,” he said, adding that there were precedents when both CBI and JPC had probed a case.
Referring to recorded conversations of corporate lobbyist Niira Radia relating to the 2G spectrum allocation, the BJP leader said that only a JPC can examine the tapes.
“The 5,811 conversations that have been recorded by an investigating agency can be seen by no other committee except JPC,” Ahluwalia maintained.
“We will carry our struggle (for a JPC) to the streets and if the government does not agree, we will return in the budget session with the same demand,” he said.
The budget session usually begins in the last week of February.
http://www.thaindian.com/newsportal/pol ... 71765.html
Re: Two-G (2G) Spectrum Scam Tapes and follow-up
Posted: 16 Dec 2010 19:16
by Muppalla
rkirankr wrote:Mupalla,
If this is the case , why couldn't it help NDA to power in 2009? Just curious.
I guess you can easily get the answer. The comparision is this "alleged new establishment" is a tiniest one when compared to the one possessed by INC. Most of its focus was on the sleeper cells of India and not broadbased. That is where Diggy's focus is and he is frustrated that is is still surviving due to Chidu. Regarding its massive failures, see the INC's stranglehold on EC, CVC etc. BJP could not do even a bit in using CBI or IB to its advantage. INC was able to dig every small pieces of s h i t and throw it with a magnifying glass on it. There is a lot more that NDA could have done but they did not do and there are several failures on this front. Entire EVM saga is a massive failure.
Even on the 2G scam - It will be a monumental achievement for NDA if it can bring the UPA government to its knees without getting itself entangled in it. All it needs is a FIVE cr discrepancy during 2001-2004. The one lack crore discrepancy will be forgotten and the focus will be on the FIVE cr. Media is tensed up and looking for a way out. All it needs is a small window and they are looking eagerly to massacre BJP, Advani, Shourie and dead Mahajan.
Even in the initial days the 20 crore Yeddi land scam has more visibility than it needed even from ever silent Sonia.
The system seems to cracking only because of internal wars of INC and nothing because of opposition.
Re: Two-G (2G) Spectrum Scam Tapes and follow-up
Posted: 16 Dec 2010 20:02
by JwalaMukhi
ShivaS wrote:Rahul Mehata is the Man of the year of BR.
He has been shouting from t he roof tops how entrenched the corruption is in Indian public life.
The sapte of Armed forces involved in scams is also shocking and takes the sheen away from the utopian notion that there are institutions that are still intact and islands of integrity.
Keep it up Rahul, one day one day a visionary leader will emerge and rescue India, I hope it will be during my life time...
***
Ratan Tata lived true to the tradition of trading merchants...
recall from Mangal Pandey how a Parsi merchant supplies beef tallow for the cartridges to the EIC to be given to the soldiers...
+1 onlee.
Well, the whole cabal has ensured all the pillars of democracy are as pliable as possible. The situation is really ripe for few good men to step up and seize the momentum to set it right. Hopefully, there are some of them from NBJPRIE to standup and be counted. It could happen sooner, Baba Ramdev's party is poised for now to make large gains and deep inroads if they play it right. A truly good opportunity for new entrants who are away from the old guards.
Re: Two-G (2G) Spectrum Scam Tapes and follow-up
Posted: 16 Dec 2010 20:12
by Christopher Sidor
Anmol ji, as you had pointed out TRAI had recommended back in 2001, "So TRAI recommended such BSOs to pay penalty for providing "full mobile service" for which they didn't have license." This was not done. Or the loophole should have been closed. Even that was done. Ideally licenses for those operators which were providing mobility under the "call transfer" loophole should have been cancelled. But it was not. So in other words a fragrant violation of the spirit and intent of the policy was done.
The ouster of Promod Mahajan was done after BSNL stopped the routing of calls for the other full mobility service providers to compel them to accept calls from other limited service providers. Arun Shourie was bought in his place. But he also continued to carry out in the same path as Promod Mahajan did.
Please note that TATA communication was not providing full mobility at that moment of time. I remember using TATA mobiles then, they would not work out of their SDCA, in my case it was then Chennai. I am not claiming that TATA communications did the right thing or is above the blame. Rather TATA Communications piggy-banked themselves on Reliance and got a full mobility license.
Right now congress is claiming that the decisions taken by the telecom ministry, was in line with the decisions taken by the 2000/2001 license to provide full mobility to the limited mobility providers. And to a point they were right. In fact in those days TRAI, DoT and other ministers were all behaving as if they were the hand maiden of a particular industrial group. Right now Raja and other people were doing the same for certain other groups.
When TRAI gave the recommendation, to convert limited mobility to full mobility, GoI put a petition in ALL the courts of India to prevent anyone from taking the legal recourse to block the ruling. Can you recall any one instance post-independence when GoI put a petition in all the courts of this country overnight?
NDA or BJP do have have a moral high ground to claim that 2G spectrum was a loot of the exchequer of the state. Not unless and until they accept responsibility for what happened under their dispensation. Corrupt Congress has not changed, though they can claim that the corruption was done by members of some other party.
The problem with this 2G spectrum case is that one of the glaring facts is getting over looked. We went from one of the smallest phone networks in the world to one of the 2nd biggest in the world. We are currently the fastest growing mobile networks in the world. In-spite of this we did not encourage industries to make switches, mobile phones, servers , billing systems for this growth. No. Rather a significant chunk of the capital expenditure for our telecom industry, went to foreign companies and especially to the Chinese manufacturers. We are in fact sustaining our enemy's manufacturing base. When 2G could have been the opportunity to kick start our own domestic manufacturing and R&D into telecom products and services we did not. We did the same with 3G and BWA auction. The same is sought to be repeated for the power sector where L&T's domestic base is getting under-utilized, just so that Chinese manufacturers of thermal power station equipments can benefit. Ditto is going to be the case of the Solar power mission, which has a target of about 20,000 MW of solar power.
Telecom which was liberalized in 1990s with such high hopes became one of the places where crony capitalism is the most rampant. And this fact is slowly seeping into all the other facets of liberalization too.
Re: Two-G (2G) Spectrum Scam Tapes and follow-up
Posted: 16 Dec 2010 20:51
by Rahul Mehta
judges are indeed very strict on corruption issue.
http://www.zeenews.com/news674767.html
SC upholds jail for man accepting Rs 50 bribe
New Delhi: More than 17 years after he was caught accepting a bribe of Rs 50, the Supreme Court on Wednesday upheld the one-year sentence imposed under the Prevention of Corruption Act on an municipal body employee of Tamil Nadu. Kootha Perumal, an employee of Pudukottai Municipality, was caught on August 23, 1993, by Anti Corruption Bureau sleuths for demanding and accepting a bribe of Rs 50 from the complainant Nayinar Mohammed, for issuing a tax certificate to enable him obtain a loan from a finance company. "We are of the considered opinion that the trial court as well as the High Court have analyzed the entire evidence and clearly held that a demand was definitely made by the appellant for delivery of the tax certificate," a bench of justices B Sudershan Reddy and Surinder Singh Nijjar said in their judgement.
The Madras High Court had on March 7, 2007, affirmed the conviction and sentence recorded by the Special Judge-cum-Additional District Judge, Pudukottai, who sentenced the accused to one year RI and imposed a fine of Rs.500 under the Prevention of Corruption Act,1988. The apex court also rejected the plea of the accused that the sanctioning authority did not apply his mind while granting sanction for his prosecution. "We may notice that the entire trap has been meticulously orchestrated by the prosecution authority. We are unable to discern any arbitrariness or inconsistencies in the concurrent findings recorded by the courts below. "We find no merit in this appeal. The appeal is dismissed," the apex court said.
====================================
We went from one of the smallest phone networks in the world to one of the 2nd biggest in the world. We are currently the fastest growing mobile networks in the world. In-spite of this we did not encourage industries to make switches, mobile phones, servers , billing systems for this growth. No. Rather a significant chunk of the capital expenditure for our telecom industry, went to foreign companies and especially to the Chinese manufacturers. We are in fact sustaining our enemy's manufacturing base. When 2G could have been the opportunity to kick start our own domestic manufacturing and R&D into telecom products and services we did not. We did the same with 3G and BWA auction. ....
True. Our Telecom "success" story, songs of which are sung 24*7 on BR, is nothing but la-Dubai --- all imported , no manufacturing. No real skills, just get imported phones, switched and cables and plug and play. Solution? OST .
Re: Two-G (2G) Spectrum Scam Tapes and follow-up
Posted: 16 Dec 2010 21:12
by ramana
Hey guys, Rahul Mehta is commenting on the reports of corruption in the new century. It has to include all players. So relax.
Re: Two-G (2G) Spectrum Scam Tapes and follow-up
Posted: 16 Dec 2010 22:24
by JwalaMukhi
http://www.indianexpress.com/news/chand ... on/725670/
Continuing his war of words with Ratan Tata, Rajya Sabha MP Rajeev Chandrasekhar on Thursday alleged that contrary to claims of probity, the Tata group got spectrum allocated out of turn through a change in policy to allow dual technology.
Re: Two-G (2G) Spectrum Scam Tapes and follow-up
Posted: 16 Dec 2010 22:25
by Muppalla
Questions - How did Rajeev Chandrasekhar become Rajyasabha member? Who supported him?
Re: Two-G (2G) Spectrum Scam Tapes and follow-up
Posted: 16 Dec 2010 22:50
by ramana
Muppalla,
About your description of the Chankaya system, its one view of whats happening.
If you step back further you see that since Independence the INC thru the UPSC right from setting exam questions to interview process ensured that only a certain type of individual, well versed in,the syncretic dogma of JNU gets into the govt services like IAS/IPS and the Armed Forces. Check out the UPSC board members background and look at the exam questions over last four decades. It was this caderization of the govt service that ensured the INC rule over the last decades.
Its no wonder that NK Singh, Thomas, Raman all see no difference between India and INC and especially the Nehru-Gandhi Family.
--
Right now R Chandrasekhar is batting for PMO regardless of who supported him early on.
In hindsight doesnt Tata's earlier claim about not paying some measly bribe to some unnamed minister in Civil Aviation ring hollow now? Who cares about his early caution when he is neck deep in the 2-G scam?
Re: Two-G (2G) Spectrum Scam Tapes and follow-up
Posted: 16 Dec 2010 22:53
by JwalaMukhi
^ Per reports he had contact with Rajesh Pilot, through his father who served in IAF. Through Rajesh pilot to Rajiv Gandhi, he had network established. Probably, all those connections helped.
http://www.myjourneytobillionaireclub.c ... f-bpl.html
After that, things started began go wrong. Chandrasekhar did one great mistake in his life that he should not have done………. And because of this mistake he never quiet recovered.
The mistake was to get involved with what was known as “Batata Conglomerate”. Kumar Mangalam Birla, Ratan Tata and AT& T decided to come together to create a new Company that would be professionally managed and would have no controlling shareholder.
Probably, the old hurt is still causing pain...
Re: Two-G (2G) Spectrum Scam Tapes and follow-up
Posted: 16 Dec 2010 23:48
by ramana
The recent news about threat to PM and others from LTTE is also a blow to DMK. The reason is that LTTE is supposed to be scattered and if it can threaten the PM of India when he visits TN next month, it means LTTE is surviving with State help.
And is a veiled warning to DMK not to do silly stuff as all the threatened folks are big players in TN.
Re: Two-G (2G) Spectrum Scam Tapes and follow-up
Posted: 16 Dec 2010 23:56
by Muppalla
ramana wrote:Muppalla,
About your description of the Chankaya system, its one view of whats happening.
If you step back further you see that since Independence the INC thru the UPSC right from setting exam questions to interview process ensured that only a certain type of individual, well versed in,the syncretic dogma of JNU gets into the govt services like IAS/IPS and the Armed Forces. Check out the UPSC board members background and look at the exam questions over last four decades. It was this caderization of the govt service that ensured the INC rule over the last decades.
Its no wonder that NK Singh, Thomas, Raman all see no difference between India and INC and especially the Nehru-Gandhi Family.
Absolutely good point. Chanakya system is to break that nexus of 60 years of JNU types at an intellecual plane though the main thrust was sleeper-cell-busting. Murali Manohar Joshi was involved from that aspect. NDA probably lost power when the whole build up was at a nacent state and the followers wanted to dismantle it.
For the highlighted portion above - This is where we need a network breaker even if the person is not right in his methods. We may not like but V P Singh did a fantastic job. We really need one more thrust to finally get the country out of such stranglehold.
Right now R Chandrasekhar is batting for PMO regardless of who supported him early on.
In hindsight doesnt Tata's earlier claim about not paying some measly bribe to some unnamed minister in Civil Aviation ring hollow now? Who cares about his early caution when he is neck deep in the 2-G scam?
Obviously Tata had paid bribes not ones but all the way from Nehru times. It will be a joke if he tries to climb that tree. The point we have to be interested is why Tata is being targeted? Ambani is so quite in this whole saga.
If you did not pay bribes you are not a businessman in India. I don't believe even the drivel that Narayana Murthy, Premzi ect. are some angels. There are ZERO number of angels. Every single person is very much equal to Ramalinga Raju though there are some characters who do not like such comparision. There is Telugu saying - dorikithe donga dorakakapothe dora. Means if you are caught you are a thief but until them you are a statesman (not exact translation).
PMO and Chidu seems to be on one side in this 2G saga temporarily as they have to tackle Pranab da. I see Tata as someone of older economy order and not in line with this new breed. I see someone targetting him undercover using both Chidu and PMO. May be putting mud on Tata may spill to everyone that are needed to be targetted.
However, this Rajeev Chandrasekhar who may be supporting PMO for now definitely have someother political masters. Hence I am trying to see who supported him from Karnataka assembly to become RS member. Liquor baron mallaya has become usng Gowdas. I am just curious to Rajeev's backers.
Re: Two-G (2G) Spectrum Scam Tapes and follow-up
Posted: 17 Dec 2010 00:25
by Mauli
We may not like but V P Singh did a fantastic job.
Good Observation!. I was involved in organizing his march from Circuit house to Beniabaag, when he came first time to Varanasi after revolting against Lotus Gandhi. He used to have lot of resentment against Nehru family for turning Thakurs into Villain in post independence India. Hi brought Mandal to set BCs against Congress. Dynasty is yet to recover from the jolt. If it were not two loyal family poodles (ABV and Brajesh Mishra(son of DP Mishra)) there was no chance in hell that Congress would have returned to the power. And absolute control which dynasty enjoined during pre- mandal days is not going to return in next 1000 years.
Very few know that Sonia backed-off from the PM post after she was advised by ABV.
Re: Two-G (2G) Spectrum Scam Tapes and follow-up
Posted: 17 Dec 2010 02:47
by anmol
Christopher Sidor wrote:Anmol ji, as you had pointed out TRAI had recommended back in 2001, "So TRAI recommended such BSOs to pay penalty for providing "full mobile service" for which they didn't have license." This was not done.
What was not done ? If you mean penalty wasn't paid as TRAI recommended and TDSAT upheld then please do some googling as from what I have read they did pay the penalty and also paid the ~1600 crore amount to convert to UASL.
Christopher Sidor wrote:Or the loophole should have been closed. Even that was done. Ideally licenses for those operators which were providing mobility under the "call transfer" loophole should have been cancelled. But it was not. So in other words a fragrant violation of the spirit and intent of the policy was done.
The ouster of Promod Mahajan was done after BSNL stopped the routing of calls for the other full mobility service providers to compel them to accept calls from other limited service providers. Arun Shourie was bought in his place. But he also continued to carry out in the same path as Promod Mahajan did.
TRAI proposed UASL to plug that loophole, it was the mistake of TRAI which created this mess as the WLL license it proposed allowed full mobility. Reliance/Tata/HFCL/Shyam etc won in auction for a license which allowed full mobility through loophole. Now if NDA would have canceled the license or tried to change the terms of license(is it possible?), all these companies would have gone to court and probably even won(my opinion only). GSM lobby meanwhile would have cried even louder as all these companies would have managed to operate full mobile service for lot less than what GSM ppl paid..
BTW, a question: how can exploiting a loophole within a policy be considered "fragrant violation of the spirit and intent of the policy" when policy is flawed and allows people to exploit it ? What is the stance of our law on this ?
About Mahajan, if you are implying that he was blackmailing GSM operators though BSNL and he was ousted and replaced with Shouri who continued his policies, why then Mahajan was ousted ? Also, I don't remember BSNL ever not allowing ISD calls of GSM operators to be routed through its network, only that once they confronted with Reliance for routing ISD calls as local and raising charges which angered companies using BSNL infrastructure. Also using BSNL to force GSM companies to receive calls from BSOs seems unnecessary and stupid as Government can scare the companies using MRTP Act / Competition Act. Also BSNL refusing to route calls of GSM for no reason whatsoever seems like violation of mentioned acts.. But I can be wrong as I have not studied law.
Christopher Sidor wrote:Right now congress is claiming that the decisions taken by the telecom ministry, was in line with the decisions taken by the 2000/2001 license to provide full mobility to the limited mobility providers.
They can argue same before JPC, also Government is not being accused for converting any license to full mobility only that they sold spectrum/license below market rates and doing so against recommendation of various regulatory bodies while NDA did what it did on recommendation of regulatory bodies and charged limited mobility companies amount similar to the amount full mobility players paid in auction.
Christopher Sidor wrote:And to a point they were right. In fact in those days TRAI, DoT and other ministers were all behaving as if they were the hand maiden of a particular industrial group. Right now Raja and other people were doing the same for certain other groups.
Reliance ? If NDA would have canceled their license against the recommendation of TRAI won't people be accusing them acting as if they are hand maiden of GSM lobby ?
Christopher Sidor wrote:When TRAI gave the recommendation, to convert limited mobility to full mobility, GoI put a petition in ALL the courts of India to prevent anyone from taking the legal recourse to block the ruling. Can you recall any one instance post-independence when GoI put a petition in all the courts of this country overnight?
There is first for everything, just because it was probably done for first time doest make it wrong. They did this probably because they wanted to prevent legal mess. Otherwise whole sector would have got stuck in a limbo. Was there an easier way out of this mess created by a flawed policy ? At the end of day Gov managed to get the industry out of this mess and prevented much hassle to the customer while ensuring CDMA companies paid amount similar if not more than what GSM companies paid.
Christopher Sidor wrote:Not unless and until they accept responsibility for what happened under their dispensation. Corrupt Congress has not changed, though they can claim that the corruption was done by members of some other party.
Are they denying that they were responsible for implementing those policies ? But they cant be accused of formulating the policies which after all were proposed by regulators, now why did regulator created a flawed WLL policy, did NDA had any role in it needs to be investigated and BJP have already given their consent to investigation by JPC into their tenure which would mean investigation into this matter.
Christopher Sidor wrote:The problem with this 2G spectrum case is that one of the glaring facts is getting over looked. We went from one of the smallest phone networks in the world to one of the 2nd biggest in the world. We are currently the fastest growing mobile networks in the world. In-spite of this we did not encourage industries to make switches, mobile phones, servers , billing systems for this growth. No. Rather a significant chunk of the capital expenditure for our telecom industry, went to foreign companies and especially to the Chinese manufacturers. We are in fact sustaining our enemy's manufacturing base. When 2G could have been the opportunity to kick start our own domestic manufacturing and R&D into telecom products and services we did not. We did the same with 3G and BWA auction. The same is sought to be repeated for the power sector where L&T's domestic base is getting under-utilized, just so that Chinese manufacturers of thermal power station equipments can benefit. Ditto is going to be the case of the Solar power mission, which has a target of about 20,000 MW of solar power.
[/quote]
Completely agreed.
Re: Two-G (2G) Spectrum Scam Tapes and follow-up
Posted: 17 Dec 2010 06:59
by Rahul Mehta
Mauli wrote: If it were not two loyal family poodles (ABV and Brajesh Mishra(son of DP Mishra)) there was no chance in hell that Congress would have returned to the power. And absolute control which dynasty enjoined during pre- mandal days is not going to return in next 1000 years. Very few know that Sonia backed-off from the PM post after she was advised by ABV.
ABV was Nehru-family poodle? BM was Nehru-family puppy? Can someone elaborate in some OTHER thread and post link here? Are RSSians zombies that they allowed Nehru-puppies to occupy most powerful post in BJP-regime?
Re: Two-G (2G) Spectrum Scam Tapes and follow-up
Posted: 17 Dec 2010 09:50
by Pratyush
Dial P for purge
A nice write up posting in full as he is making some incicive points. Also his role in Radia gate seems (The tapes that I have herad ) to me of a jurno and not a fixer.
Dear Dr Singh,
Greetings! This is my second open letter to you this year. The first was in May when I had raised the issue of political corruption. To quote from the May 28 letter: “There is little doubt sir of your personal integrity, but would you concede that its been difficult for you to check corruption amongst your ministerial colleagues? As a supplementary, may I ask that if the CBI had been investigating a Congress minister and not an ally like A Raja of the DMK, would you have shown the same leniency?”
Unfortunately, I did not receive a response to my query. Now I know why. It has become increasingly apparent as the 2G scam unfolds that the DMK was a law unto itself in your government. While you did write to the then telecom minister in November 2007, voicing your concerns over spectrum pricing and asking him to ensure a fair and transparent auction, the fact is Raja ignored your missive. Yet, instead of dismissing him from the Cabinet for challenging prime ministerial authority, he was ‘rewarded’ in May 2009 with the same portfolio, only because the Tamil Nadu chief minister staged a minor tantrum. Can there be any greater evidence of the clout which the DMK exercised within the UPA?
Had you acted against Raja three years ago, you might have been able to rise above the stench of corruption that now envelopes your government. More importantly, it has perhaps for the first time in your long and distinguished career in public life that the ‘Mr Clean’ image which you have so assiduously maintained has been stained.
Dr Singh, your life has been an inspiration for millions of Indians. The story of the rise of a young boy from Gah village, walking miles to his school, studying under the dim light of a kerosene lamp and working his way up through scholarship inspires hope in all our hearts. When you became PM, we rejoiced in the belief that at last we had found a leader we could identify with, someone who wasn’t a spoilt dynast, but a genuine representative of the great Indian middle-class dream.
Critical to this identification process was the knowledge that this was a PM who was personally incorruptible. It was a bit like being transported back to the 1970s Amol Palekar era of cinema, where the honest bank manager in a bush shirt touched a chord with audiences through his old-fashioned values of simplicity and decency. We warmed to stories of how you still owned a 20-year-old Maruti car, how your family members had been resolutely kept away from the trappings of power, how your lovely wife Gursharan Kaur still went shopping for vegetables at Khan Market.
I am sure that Gursharanji still keeps a tight rein on the household budget. But with due respect sir, being PM is not about family budgets, it’s about the national treasury that you have been empowered to preserve. A bank manager may well be of ‘impeccable’ personal integrity at home, but if he allows his clerks to loot the bank, then he clearly is failing in his primary responsibility at the workplace. Sadly, that’s exactly what seems to have happened in the UPA cabinet, and your continual hand-wringing is now becoming a sign of impotence.
At one level, there is obvious empathy with the situation you find yourself in. A coalition government is by its very nature a political arrangement based on compromise. Part of the compromise appears to be a readiness to allow every constituent to set its own rules of engagement, including when it comes to cornering the ‘ATM’ cash-rich portfolios. The NDA which is planning a national campaign on corruption would be well-advised to examine its own track record in this regard.
Frankly though, one is weary of reducing corruption to a zero-sum UPA versus NDA political battle. The average Indian citizen is not interested in knowing who is more corrupt, the Congress-NCP government in Maharashtra or the BJP government in Karnataka. The left may have a better track record, but let’s not forget that its prime ally in Tamil Nadu is Jayalalithaa who still has serious corruption cases against her. Taking a moral high ground may work in a television studio debate, it’s unlikely to attract cynical voters.
What the aam admi seeks (and presumably the UPA still claims to be an ‘aam admi government) is a readiness to act against the corrupt and make examples of them. Your leader, Sonia Gandhi, claimed to her parliamentary party that the Congress has ‘acted’ against corruption. Can the notion of ‘action’ be defined please? Forcing a minister to resign is not action, prosecuting him would be. Handing over a case to the CBI is not action, ensuring that the investigation is taken to its logical conclusion would be. The nation is not a set of gullible MPs who will be taken in by rhetorical flourishes. We don’t need to become a lynch mob, but the fact is an alert and enraged Indian citizenry will no longer settle for fine words alone.
Here’s a concrete suggestion: why don’t you amend the Prevention of Corruption Act to ensure that all corruption cases involving public servants, be they officials or politicians, are put on fast-track? If they are proved innocent, restore their dignity. If they are guilty, have them jailed and their properties confiscated. You may lack political support for your move, but trust me, an entire nation will cheer you on.
Post-script: May I also suggest a brief year-end family holiday to rejuvenate yourself in this make-or-break fight against corruption. The country needs a re-invented Manmohan Singh who is willing to crack the whip in 2011, not a passive observer of the muck around him. Happy New Year!
Rajdeep Sardesai is Editor-in-Chief, IBN 18 Network n
[email protected] The views expressed by the author are personal
Question to Admins. As I understand there is an unwritten policy policy that certain political leaders are above reproach?
Having said so, is MMS a part of that group?
Re: Two-G (2G) Spectrum Scam Tapes and follow-up
Posted: 17 Dec 2010 09:55
by ramana
Rajdeep Turdesai is himself reinventing his own image after his best friend got radiagated.
Re: Two-G (2G) Spectrum Scam Tapes and follow-up
Posted: 17 Dec 2010 11:10
by Sri
Guys, I have been reading this thread with great interest. Since now Supreme court has asked CBI to probe into 2001 licence issue also, I think it will be apt for me to bring in another prospective into the picture. The fact is that WLL vs gsm battle is not exclusive to India.
There was a huge battle in China on the same issue. Ut Starcom (Little smart phone) was China's equivalent of R COM in India. And I am sure Tata and Reliance read through what happened in China before they took a plunge into CDMA technology. This is a very large issue. But the fact is the economics of WLL technology is hard to argue against as India's TRAI and China's Ministry of Information Industry (Now Ministry of Posts and Telecommunication) found. In latter's case at a very high cost.
For us to understand the magnitude of the issue it is important for us to know the China story and also to understand the basic difference between CDMA and WLL technology. I wish to share my 2 cents on both the issues on this forum.
But since this thread is consumed largely with the corruption issue, my question to admins and other guru log is whether it is right thread?
I, like many people here am appalled by the corruption and in no way want to defend the corrupt on this forum. I only feel that in 2001 NDA government had to give the licences to R COM and TATA, whether or not corruption was involved.
Fact is that only after RIM launch the call prices in India dropped drastically (like in China's case with 'Little Smart Phone'). Today we have the fastest growing mobile market with state of the art technology and with fierce competition. I believe we need to understand the huge stakes involved in the same and also learn from what happened elsewhere.
If the Mods / admin / senior BRfites agree I would like to bring in that prospective to this thread, else let me know the relevant thread to post the whole thing.
Re: Two-G (2G) Spectrum Scam Tapes and follow-up
Posted: 17 Dec 2010 11:13
by ramana
Go ahead here!
Re: Two-G (2G) Spectrum Scam Tapes and follow-up
Posted: 17 Dec 2010 11:16
by Pratyush
Sri since Ramana has already given approval.
I request you to post a copy of your post here on
Indian telcome folderas well.
Re: Two-G (2G) Spectrum Scam Tapes and follow-up
Posted: 17 Dec 2010 14:02
by Sri
Thanks Ramana.
Pratyush: will do as advised.
The China Story:
The story of China's telecom revolution is actually a story of 2 behemoth departments of the People's Republic of China. It is a classic case of bureaucratic wrangling in the world's largest country.
The 2 departments involved are Ministry of Post and Telecommunication and Ministry of Electronics.
In early 1990s China's telecom equipment was woefully poor (much like India). Telephone network was essentially considered as a tool to connect the 'Party' with different provinces / region and local governments. In 1994 China's State Council gave mandate to the MPT to redo the whole telecom infrastructure and make it the 'Best in the world' and to add at least 15 million new subscribers to the national PSTN network without ceding state control on the industry.
Mandated by State Council the MPT took to it's mission with a fervor. First thing that they did was to further expand their mandate. They proved to the Masters in Beijing that China didn't have the technology and industrial base to achieve the given mandate hence they needed to import the knowhow and equipment in the initial stages. MPT got the go ahead for knowhow but not the imports.
MPT approached AT&T for a joint venture but was rebuffed. Japanese didn't help either. Finally Belgium's IT&T agreed to setup a joint venture. Switches flew out of the factory. The demand was so great that the waiting period for a new connection was 6 months on an average in Shanghai. Hence this lead to poor service and massive corruption in China. China's top leadership and members of politburo were flodded with complaints. But MPT showed little sign of improvement.
On the other hand Ministry of electronics was extremely cheesed with the fact the newly established switch factories and telecom equipment companies were all controlled by MPT and MoE. Anyways with help of politburo member Hu Qili (who was also heading MoE) the ministry got go ahead to develop a parallel network for the party to ensure connectivity incase the main network breaks down. The mandate was to develop a network for customs, railways and banking sector. MoE found it often frustrating to source equipment as the whole manufacturing and distribution was controlled by MPT and MoE's volumes didn't justify setting up of dedicated manufacturing facility for the ministry.
As luck would have it in 1997 China liberalised it's import policy. Import of telecom equipment by China's company for th 'Good of the people' was allowed albeit with approval from MoE. Hu Qili saw this as an opportunity to start a national telecom company parallel to MPT. But the problem was that since State Council had not given mandate to him but to MPT he had no money to do it. He came up with a genius plan and Hu Qili can hence be considered as father of Chinese CCF structure of Investment (CHINESE CHINESE FOREIGN). Under this structure local governments can partner with foreign companies to setup local telecom networks and MoE control Unicom will give them a branch franchise. Foreign companies jumped over each other to sign with Unicom. Anyways Unicom's network and subscriber base zoomed.
Then came the mobile revolution. As MPT already had a mandate to add into subscriber base they promptly had a listing of China Telecom in NYSE collecting 4 billion dollars into their kitty. At home they refused to share there network with Unicom's mobile services.
At this juncture Unicom stumbled upon UT Satrcomm. UT Starcomm was a company owned by 2 chinese engineers in US. They were consultants to Bell Labs.
To further understand UT Starcomm and China story we have to understand the difference between GSM and WLL. That will be my next post.
Re: Two-G (2G) Spectrum Scam Tapes and follow-up
Posted: 17 Dec 2010 16:09
by Sri
All WLL operators had a fixed line license to start with whether in India / China / USA or anywhere else. All fixed line licenses come with something called "Right of Way'. Right of way is crucial because it gives right to the operator to dig up roads and pavements to lay their cables. Generally they can dig up and connect every house with their cable network. They still have to apply to municipality for the permission to dig up but Municipalities can not decline the request but just comment on schedule and inspect the condition of dug up area once the work is finished.
WLL (next version of PHS technology). essentially in this technology the mobile towers of the WLL mobiles are connected at base directly with the operators private network and hence bypass the networks of established fixed line operators. Hence they have no need to pay any carrier charges to established fixed line operators. Where as other mobile networks (GSM) who do not have cable network on ground are dependent on other fixed line operators to provide pstn backbone and pay carrier charges to them. Therefore GSM operators lose control on their pricing as part of this pricing is controlled by fixed line operator.
In India before the RIM all operators were paying BSNL. RIM was from day one were able to provide free calls from RIM to RIM because they didn't have to pay BSNL (this later changed as TRAI required them to pay BSNL anyways) at all for routing such calls. This puts other mobile operators at a very disadvantageous position, who had to pay likes of BSNL in either case.
UT Starcomm developed a technology to seamless transfer calls from one tower to another based on PHS. Hence 'Little smart phone' was born. Much to dislike of MPT, which all of a sudden found a cheaper smarter competitor on their turf.
Back to China Story...
Re: Two-G (2G) Spectrum Scam Tapes and follow-up
Posted: 17 Dec 2010 17:10
by Sri
UT Starcomm found a local phone official in Hangzhou province who like many local unicom managers was looking for business for the excess fixed line capacity they had built in their area. UT Starcomm basically attached their 'lil smart phones' to these excess switches and started marketing them as 'an extension of fixed line phones'. The service was 80% cheaper then China Mobile. Slowly little smart phones were introduced in far flung places in China and grew both in size stature and popularity both with the 'people' and local Unicom management.
Then came the hammer and MPT banned all call coming from and to the little smart network. Worried foreign investors and local government official laid siege to the Ministry. Reluctantly Chinese leadership then combined the two warring department as Ministry of Information Technology and Unicomm was given Unified service license. Later Morgan Stanley did the public listing of the company in NYSE and Hong Kong, roping in $5bn.
The story in India is more or less the same. The value proposition given by R Com was too good for any Government to ignore. With vested interest of likes of Ambanis in the fray I guess NDA had to give in. Firstly to create a 'level' playing field R Com was asked to pay any ways to BSNL. Later after intense lobbying by likes of you know who... All existing Mobile licenses were converted into Unified licences and BSNL was on its own.
Why I wrote the whole thing is give a prospective on why the development of telecom in India is the way it is. It is normal market dynamics that dictate most decisions and not the babus or netas.
The scam is not what happened, the scam is the ineptness of our policy makers to see what had already happened in China and make policies accordingly.
I am sure Reliance would have taken care of NDA prtners in their quest of unified license but, I guess this had to happen. And in all this Tata's and R Comm should never really complaint. They got the unified license and later they got the GSM license too.
Re: Two-G (2G) Spectrum Scam Tapes and follow-up
Posted: 17 Dec 2010 22:24
by Rahul Mehta
1. Spectrum licenses are sold/leased for how many years? 100 years?
2. We import most of the switches from US, China etc . So what would stop US, China from logging in via back doors and shutting the switches down in event of war?
3. Existing mobiles are almost as powerful as PC. So why dont people use voice using private-public keys so that GoI cant snoop? I dont use such method, as my mobile costs Rs 1200 (2 years ago) and doesnt have such capability, and I dont have anything to hide. In fact, I want GoI agents to listen to my phone conversations because that would get me extra audience for Right to Recall, RTI2 etc proposals for free

. But people like Radia etc want to keep their conversations confidential. So why dont they encrypt-decrypt voice?
====
When Raja gave 45 minutes deadline to provide Rs 1600 cr draft, next day, whole Delhi knew of scam. Licenses are issued by Dept Secretaries, and any order of Secretary can be canceled by Chief Secretary. PM did not ask Chief Secretary to cancel licenses next day. justice Kapadia could have canceled the licenses using suo motto writ next day. He did not not. No other SCj did.
All this inaction in 2008 from PM, SCjs show that PM, SCjs were paid up. Then why this investigation from SCjs now?
All this show from Justice Kapadia is only to block JPC. Essentially, Kapadia is hand-in-glove with PM, and creating a drama as if he is serious against corruption and is serious about 2G scam. In reality, Kapadia just wants to give an excuse PM can use to avoid JPC. The commission will investigate all orders issued since Jan-1-2001. The commission will take 1 year to scan decision Telecom Ministry took in one year. So for next 7 years, the commission will investigate pre-2008 decision only and will investigate 2008 scam in year 2018 !! Indian judiciary is a sick joke ... and its not funny anymore.
Re: Two-G (2G) Spectrum Scam Tapes and follow-up
Posted: 17 Dec 2010 22:36
by Christopher Sidor
I dont agree with the contention that NDA had to give full mobility to Reliance & TATA. As the policy's intention was to restrict the user of the mobile connection to a SDCA, the loopholes in the policy should have been closed. And if the violation had been serious enough, which in my opinion it was, the license of the offending industrial group ought to have been cancelled, even if it would appear like it favored the GSM lobby.
Rather what happened was a violation of a policy was rewarded with more perks and benefits in this case a pan-india unified license. To understand why this single pan-india license was also a sop to certain players, one must comprehend that the other mobile players in the market, till that moment of time, had to take part in an state-wise circle bid. It was this legalizing of a wrong, if not a crime, that is what is so galling.
There is nothing inherent in a WLL/CDMA technology that compels a full mobility license. The proof of this is the TATA Walky or Reliance Fixed Wireless phones. WLL was introduced so avoid the cost and hassles (legal/procedureal/physical) of laying wires, optical or copper.
If we are going to claim that congress had a hand in giving away spectrum at pittance, then congress will claim that it was following a precedent. Over here the precedent itself is of dubious nature. And the precedent over here is the reliance/tata saga, where these industrial houses managed to get licenses through dubious means. In fact if reliance was so keen in mobility why did it not bid in the auction of the 2nd and 3rd mobile operator? The fact that TATA was part of the IDEA group and still wanted its own telecom company speaks volume about its behavior.
And about reliance bringing down prices, please note that the DAPO plan with 40 paise STD and local was an initial offer plan, which was discontinued after a few months. Ditto for the plans provided by TATA Communications. After the expiry, the rates went up again, crossing 1.5 rupees a minute. For both the CDMA and GSM players. It was only when a certain telecom minister in UPA-I wanted to introduce the so called India-One plan did the rates start to go down. The fact that this minister was highly corrupt is a different saga in its own right.
Re: Two-G (2G) Spectrum Scam Tapes and follow-up
Posted: 17 Dec 2010 23:42
by ramana
Once flaunted, now shunned
Price of Kani link: cloud of doubt
-
Once a ‘medal’ to flaunt, CBI raids turn glare on anyone who has connections with poet-turned-politician
G.C. SHEKHAR
Chennai, Dec. 16: Even a casual connection with Kanimozhi used to be flaunted as a proud medal in Chennai’s social, cultural and political circles. Till the 2G scam reached its present crescendo, that is, and the CBI raids started.
Today, anyone seen close to the poet-turned-politician appears to have come under suspicion.
Father Jegath Gaspar Raj admitted as much while denying that scam funds have flowed into Tamil Mayiam, an NGO he runs and whose office was raided yesterday.
“True in the context (of the 2G scam) created by the media, things have come under a cloud,” he said today, asked if those associated with Karunanidhi’s literary heir had come under a scanner.
“We are being unfairly targeted just because we work with political personalities.”
Gaspar Raj admitted that his association with Kanimozhi — one of the DMK’s power centres — for the street festival Chennai Sangamam helped in getting logistical support from the state government. What he did not say was that it opened doors for him in the corridors of power.
“We canvass for sponsors using professional agencies and not by dropping names,” he said, trying to fight the popular perception that the Kanimozhi name brings in the funds for his projects.
Proximity to the Rajya Sabha MP is also credited for S. Saravanan, a man from a modest background, swinging a multi-crore land deal involving a 53,000sqft property on Chennai’s arterial road.
Kanimozhi claimed that
Saravanan, who doubled as her secretary and her mother’s business manager, had only acted as a mediator in the deal between 14 joint owners and a Malaysian businessman. But it is doubtful he could have cut in to the deal if it were not for his “CIT Colony connection” — a euphemism derived from the neighbourhood where Kanimozhi and her mother Rajathi live in a palatial bungalow.
“The local media had been full of stories that
Saravanan took control of the property when a dispute amongst the original owners had come to Rajathi for mediation,” a DMK functionary said.
Rajathi issued a statement today saying Saravanan, who used to work in her company, had become a real estate agent and had finalised the deal in his personal capacity and that she had nothing to do with it.
Poongodhai Aladi Aruna, the Tamil Nadu IT minister, is
another Kanimozhi groupie.

She owes her comeback into the ministry to the blessings of the mother-daughter duo.
Poongodahi was sacked three years ago for arguing the case of a corrupt relative with the state vigilance chief, which became public through a leaked phone tap.
Poongodahi again finds herself in hot water after her phone conversation with corporate lobbyist Niira Radia — she described Karunanidhi’s son M.K. Alalagiri as a “cut-throat politician” — got leaked.
Now Alagiri wants Poongodhai’s scalp but Karunanidhi has resisted, arguing that dropping her now would alienate the votes of the Nadar community from which she hails.
Nakkeeran’s Kamaraj has got hit by a double whammy —he is close to both A. Raja and Kanimozhi — not the best combination in these troubled times for the DMK. He, too, was raided by the CBI.
An unfazed Kanimozhi today made light of the CBI raids. “This (the raids) is a process to show we are clean and DMK is very open to it,” she said with a smile.
Interestng that one branch of MK's family is being roasted while the thuggish side is not entangled in this mess.
Re: Two-G (2G) Spectrum Scam Tapes and follow-up
Posted: 17 Dec 2010 23:45
by Mauli
An apology for an error
On its 'India at 9' programme last night (December 16, 2010) CNN-IBN had posted viewer feedback in course of its debate on whether lobbying should be legalised. This viewer feedback was wrongly attributed to Twitter accounts. We deeply regret the error and apologise for the same.
We will take all steps to ensure that this is not repeated.
http://ibnlive.in.com/news/an-apology-f ... ml?from=tn

Re: Two-G (2G) Spectrum Scam Tapes and follow-up
Posted: 17 Dec 2010 23:49
by ramana
Wait a minute. As shown on the psy-ops thread the twitter accounts were fake and manipulated. What is CNN-IBN apologising for creating the fake twitters or using the fake twitters created by someone. By saying t wont be repeated which is it?
Re: Two-G (2G) Spectrum Scam Tapes and follow-up
Posted: 17 Dec 2010 23:55
by Mauli
Re: Two-G (2G) Spectrum Scam Tapes and follow-up
Posted: 18 Dec 2010 00:13
by Mauli
Re: Two-G (2G) Spectrum Scam Tapes and follow-up
Posted: 18 Dec 2010 01:52
by shyamd
ED takes probe abroad
The Enforcement Directorate has asked intelligence officers at Indian missions in several countries to check the money trail in the 2G scam. Missions which have got the communiqué include those in Cyprus, Cyprus, Mauritius, British Virgin Islands, Jersey, Isle of Man, Singapore, Dubai, Libya and Norway.
Documents with the ED indicate that Unitech, through its wholly owned subsidiaries and associates in various countries, made interlinked transactions to hide real beneficiaries.
The companies identified as recipients are Unitech Builders and Estates, Adonis Projects, Aska Properties, Hudson Properties, Nahan Properties, Unitech Infrastructure and Volga Properties.
Details asked from the mission are on the nature of business conducted by Unitech's subsidiaries, copies of their balance-sheets, and the names of their promoters and directors.
The officers have specifically been asked to check the antecedents of the money coming into Unitech Wireless under the ambit of Prevention of Money Laundering Act.
A spokesperson of Uninor, when contacted, said, “We are not aware of any notification from the ED.” The communiqué is a prelude to Letters Rogatory (formal government missives) for some of these countries, considered tax havens, if incriminating evidence turns up.
Re: Two-G (2G) Spectrum Scam Tapes and follow-up
Posted: 18 Dec 2010 02:57
by SwamyG
ramana wrote:Interestng that one branch of MK's family is being roasted while the thuggish side is not entangled in this mess.
As long as the rowdy stays local or regional without trying to out reach his territory he is ignored, tolerated or excused. If a rowdy starts flapping wings then the central authority will attempt to cut the wings. Back in the days when we had Kings, Kings after waging war and defeating the local Chief or King, used them as vassals to do their work. The vassal ruled the region on behalf of the King/Emperor, who was mostly from a place that controlled the economy/commerce. The vassals enriched the Emperor's treasury and vassals were rewarded based on it. The Kings let the vassals behave as they wanted unless the vassals did not hatch a plan to overthrow the Emperor.
The Emperor just cannot be everywhere, he has to be in a Central place, and the Emperor needs the vassals as much as the vassals need an Emperor.
The rumor is that Stalin limps because of the goondas set forth on him by Indra Gandhi. Stalin and Azhagiri seem to know their place in the pecking order. Kanimozhi, Raja, Maran brothers are the younger generation who are daring to go where their elders did not go before. Hence they will face the wrath. If they can handle it they will become important national players; else they will tuck their tails and run back to TN.
Maran brothers are safe as long as they don't threaten Ambanis and Tatas.
Re: Two-G (2G) Spectrum Scam Tapes and follow-up
Posted: 18 Dec 2010 03:00
by SwamyG
The Mother Board is classic. No Rahul, Sonia, MMS ityadi. Interesting to see Kamal Nath, an INC loyalist in the picture. Also no pictures of Burkha Dutt, Vir and other journalists.
Re: Two-G (2G) Spectrum Scam Tapes and follow-up
Posted: 18 Dec 2010 03:04
by ramana
Its from Outlook.
Re: Two-G (2G) Spectrum Scam Tapes and follow-up
Posted: 18 Dec 2010 03:10
by SwamyG
I know. It is interesting they are very active in pursuing this scam. It is a commie outlet. Why are they so involved?