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His speech at a rally was widely televised across India where he claimed that his knees were shaking etc. etc. etc. and the INC cadre requested high-command to restrain him from giving speeches at rallies. That is what I vaguely remember. More details in Modi vs. INC thread under burqua.UlanBatori wrote: Was he even born then? Old enough to read?
AmberG ji, let me answer. I could not be present at the inauguration function. Even if I had been, I would not have stood up and asked her that question because of the occasion. I did write to my Sabha about the incongruity and spoke to one of the office bearers. WikiLeaks showed how everybody from various walks of life was talking to US consuls in India about so many issues. The reasons are obvious.Amber G. wrote:SSridhrji permit me to enquire - Did you ask the Consul what (s)he thought about DK's custodial rape in his/her country? If not why not? If you did, what was the consul's reply?
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/indiahome/in ... 2sJ1JLoMFkThe recent arrest of Devyani Khobragade and its attendant circumstances have again brought into sharp focus the debate over whether the US is increasingly exercising jurisdiction in matters which pertain to India, and over which jurisdiction belongs to India alone.
A highly provocative and controversial aspect of such extra-territorial outreach is being done through the Alien Tort Statute (ATS) which reads: "The District Courts shall have original jurisdiction of any civil action by an alien for a tort only, committed in violation of the law of nations or a treaty of the United States."
In recent years, US courts have interpreted this statute to allow foreign citizens to seek remedies in US courts for human rights violations allegedly committed outside the US.
Arshak was also protecting himself. He did not want the court to think he was complicit in his client "fleeing."sivab wrote:^^^ Here is Daniel Arschack on record
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/01/13/nyreg ... .html?_r=0
MEA was upset because of this. There was an article on that. I will see if I can locate that.On Thursday, Mr. Arshack said, he got a call from Ms. Khobragade, who was about to be driven to the airport for a 2:25 p.m. flight. He called the State Department, saying he would not allow her to leave without the court’s permission. He says neither he nor his client, who was free on bond, wanted it to appear that she was fleeing the country, when in fact she was leaving because she was obligated to.
Mr. Arshack said he told Ms. Khobragade to stay inside her vehicle when it got to the airport. He said he then called two investigators, who had been working for him on the case, and had them drive to the mission and follow her on the way to the airport.
If Indian officials tried to compel her to leave the vehicle, Mr. Arshack recalled telling his investigators, they should take her to the Manhattan federal courthouse, where he was heading.
Some of the Indian media reporting about this is quite sloppy it seems to me.matrimc wrote:What I had been saying all along. PB and the judge are going on a parallel track after USSD's memo of stating that the DCG does not have immunity. Getting into the nitty-gritty details of the indictment and the court process is all irrelevant and is only of interest to the specialist attorneys who understand such things.Ravi Batra in The Economic Time wrote:He (Ravi Batra) contended that it is not for the judge to decide if Khobragade ought to have been arrested or charged. The two countries need to settle the issue to prevent further damage ....
Amber G , do you have concrete basis for the info that UZ belongs to glorious paki bihari community which served with such distinction in the '71 war to purify E. Pakistan?Amber G. wrote:I am sure it is just a coincidence but they tell me that abbba-jaan of the undersecretary of democracy (and patron of DUI's abba-jaan) seem to have made this great city his home at one time, when he immigrated from Pakistan...Have u considered the possibility that the SD legal dept may be populated by former City of Atlanta / State of GA Emergency Preparedness Experts?
AmberG: This was the point of my story about the Korean grad student of many saal pehle, and the wise judge of Ulan Bator. By the Bray of PiBs, that poor guy would be still doing time for credit card fraud, prior to being deported for a felony conviction. I mean, look at the evidence: he took someone else's card home with him (and the original owner reported it missing/stolen), then came back a week later and bought gas, then used the "stolen" card to pay for that. Caught red-handed. Nailed, far worse than some confusing statements on a form and some IP address as evidence. But that is not what HerOnner saw. She looked past the cr*p and saw an innocent mixup.Let us help her to think over the few things..(Let us pretend we are the judge).. add points if you see them fit. (I am putting some thoughts of my own and what I have heard read from others)
PB's arguments and supporting SD' memo talk a lot about consular immunity (and acts committed in official duties etc..) so..
- Was DK's role in assisting SR in putting together the visa application documents (assuming DK prepared all of them) within the scope of her official authority as a consular officer ? .
(Note that DK' lawyer does not argue consular official acts at all, He argues only - DK's status as a temporary and then as a permanent member of India's UN mission.) PB devotes a couple of pages to it, but it does not addresses - consular officer's official role in assisting her fellow citizens in passport and visa matters.
2. Was the paperwork correctly done re: DK's status as a temporary member of India's UN mission and for how long was that status accorded ?
Even if we get past the issues of immunity etc., there is no federal crime committed, no intention shown to defraud, no prima facie case. Quit wasting my golf and siesta time. Phooooeeey!
In a harsh retaliatory step against the US for the treatment of DK, the Government Of India ordered placement of a big sign outside the US Embassy that says:
Honk if u luv cricket
Or is it due to the fact that, as Afghan President Hamid Karzai hinted in a recent interview with eminent journalist Saurabh Shukla, the US tends to act as a big bully?Krittika wrote:Prabhu Dayal also connects the Sikhs for Justice cases and the Devyani K case on Dec 27 itself.
It is self-evident that the motivation is undermining sovereignty, laying the groundwork of redistribution of funds from GOI to preferred groups through lawsuits (this was how lawyer-activist-media-financial sector redistributed wealth from right-wing US businesses to left-wing post 1970s).
So those who still think this is Conspiracy Theory must believe chief Indian diplo's are also CT experts.
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/indiahome/in ... 2sJ1JLoMFkThe recent arrest of Devyani Khobragade and its attendant circumstances have again brought into sharp focus the debate over whether the US is increasingly exercising jurisdiction in matters which pertain to India, and over which jurisdiction belongs to India alone.
A highly provocative and controversial aspect of such extra-territorial outreach is being done through the Alien Tort Statute (ATS) which reads: "The District Courts shall have original jurisdiction of any civil action by an alien for a tort only, committed in violation of the law of nations or a treaty of the United States."
In recent years, US courts have interpreted this statute to allow foreign citizens to seek remedies in US courts for human rights violations allegedly committed outside the US.
Tut-tut, AmberG, I am SHOCKED, SHOCKED at all you jingos...portraying Richards as the guilty party seems important to a sundry set of people, politicians, and pundits who fancy themselves as patriotic Indians with an axe to grind against the US for arresting and mistreating an "innocent" diplomat.
..portraying Richards as the guilty party seems important to a sundry set of people, politicians, and pundits who fancy themselves as patriotic Indians with an axe to grind against the US for arresting and mistreating an "innocent" diplomat.[/quote]UlanBatori wrote:Recently had to pass thru Ahlana jawjuh after their finely-managed Weather Event. Picked up the great Khabar, "Passport to the Indian-American Community".
Editorial by Parthiv Parekh. Page 10, February rag
[/quote]take a look under obituary.Amber G. wrote:I am sure it is just a coincidence but they tell me that abbba-jaan of the undersecretary of democracy (and patron of DUI's abba-jaan) seem to have made this great city his home at one time, when he immigrated from Pakistan...Have u considered the possibility that the SD legal dept may be populated by former City of Atlanta / State of GA Emergency Preparedness Experts?
PB has acknowledged that DK had consular immunity. From above statement, PB is contradicting himself. DK did employ SR in her capacity as DCG and not as a private citizen. Else, SR would not be on a GoI official passport. SR duties involved helping the DCG discharge her duties effectively; which may have included babysitting, housecleaning and food preparation or whatever may be so deemed by the DCG. So, should her consular immunity (by US re-intepretation standards) be sufficient? I would presume if there is an employee that is unhappy with his/her boss or work environment at the Indian consulate, (s)he can only take it up in the Indian court system and not the US court system. If you are on a official passport, you are working for the government and subjected to the rules of the government.Riding on the State Department legal advisor's declaration, Bharara said the US government has ''unequivocally concluded'' that Devyani did not employ her domestic worker Sangeeta Richard in her capacity as Deputy Consul General and so does not enjoy immunity from prosecution for the ''crimes'' for which she was arrested in December.
Dr. Zeya (i.e. Dr Hasan Ismail Zeya) tells me how his own father had been a journalist in India but discouraged his son from ever becoming one. It was hard work and no money. But maybe that’s where Rena got her passion.
As a little girl, Rena would make her parents watch as she pretended to be a news anchor. She would hide under the table and appear from behind the tablecloth to the deliver the news.
Rena came to America on her sixth birthday. Dr. Zeya had wanted a better life for his family and moved to North Carolina from a remote part of the Indian state of Bihar. His family hailed from the place where Mahatma Gandhi launched his civil disobedience campaign in India — there’s a scene in the Oscar winning film that shows Gandhi arriving at that train station.
Dr. Zeya tells me he was happy to leave what he called the “most backward place in India.” For a variety of reasons.
He tells me he loved that in Chapel Hill, he could shower with hot water spewing from the faucets. And that he did not have to sweat through the entire summer like we did in India when the electricity went out and the fans stopped for hours. I felt connected with him — and to Rena — in a whole different way.
I never really spoke with Rena much about her early childhood in India. My connections to our homeland, of course, were much stronger since my parents chose to return there many years ago. But in a strange sort of way, it was comforting to know now that Rena had experienced life as I had there. She was only a year and half older than me.
My deepest connection to Rena was that when I first met her more than 20 years ago, she was the only other Indian woman I knew in mainstream journalism in the United States. Now, of course, there are many successful South Asian women practicing great journalism. But back then, there were few. Rena knew that and encouraged women like me to keep pushing forward.
As I speak with her father, I realize where she got a lot of her spunk, though he insists that it was she who inspired him.
Dr. Zeya tells me he never wanted to color his children’s thoughts about big things in life. Like religion. He wanted Rena to make up her own mind. It was exactly how my father had raised my brother and me. He never allowed organized religion to infiltrate our home. He wanted us to figure it out for ourselves.
Sunday afternoon, Dr. Zeya sat in the temple to hear Rabbi Steven Lebow tell the audience what Rena had said to him when it became apparent she was going to die.
She told him she didn’t fear death — she never had in her painful two-year battle against lymphoma. She worried only about what would happen to her children, Sabrina and Adam, and to the love of her life, her husband, Rob Golden.
She also told Rabbi Lebow that she wasn’t religious, though she considered herself deeply spiritual. It was a statement that made her father proud.
We spoke of religious tensions in India. Dr. Zeya sipped Sprite and launched a conversation on Islam. He believes followers of that faith must rethink their path to the future. It was not a discussion I’d expected to have at Rena’s funeral and at first, I was caught by surprise.
But on the long drive back home on 1-75, I decided otherwise. My conversation with Dr. Zeya was exactly what Rena would have wanted. Smart, forward-thinking, outside-the-box, provocative, even, and totally unexpected at a funeral. She would have liked that her father initiated an intelligent conversation with her friends and colleagues.
father
Dr. Hasan Ismail Zeya
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VDU-IA5I0S4
shreeman wrote: As I stood on a bridge, a mere nothing, i saw fires worse than mordor all around, not in remote distance either. In this total disbelief, there was one consolation. The tragedy will not enter this side of the bridge, and if it did, occupants in any danger were well secured, and beyond any harm.
No harm of any sort ever came to them. I knew none of them or ever did. But I do know their temple still thrives to this day, bigger than just a handful anywhere. And I have visited it. And the events encouraged me to buy and read the guru granth sahib though I wad already firmly in the pasta fold by then. I know the language and can firmly state there were definitely Jo lade deen ke het, soora sohi.., where I was placed by fate. These are not the only prose I still recall, and note it is a book, not a person. There are no more leaders, only readers.
All, to a man, went about their business when things returned to normal. Not one mention in any press, no one sought anything in return. As pretty much everywhere else, I was no more than a journalist. Taking only mental notes. But others endangered their lives for several fateful evenings.
It is 30 years soon --october 31, and I have never seen any mention of people who stood up to the insanity. Certainly not these men. It was beyond human capacity for those people to stop what went on elsewhere, but nothing remotely unusual took place in these few square kilometers.
We do humanity a disservice by throwing shoes into the amar jawan jyoti, or assaulting the unknown soldier , and just as much by even after 30 years not knowing the whole of our own history. More of that imperfect system functioned than people know about.
http://www.telegraphindia.com/1110303/j ... 657768.jspUlanBatori wrote:Vijay:
"Bihari" is direct quote from speech by UZ at JNU or some such center of Indian nationalism. I saw it, which means it is 400% firm. The usage was pretty clear: her ancestry was not INDIAN, but "Bihar". The rest of the DNA trail is speculation. Can't tell if it was Bihar-E.Bengal-USA, or Bihar-WestPak-USA, or Bihar-E.Bengal-WestPak-USA. I don't think it was Bihar-USA. UZ is ABCP, best I can figure out.
Uzra S Zeya meets Sushil Kumar Modi“I am absolutely thrilled to come here — it is both a professional and a personal visit. My ancestors are from Bihar, so for me it is like coming home,” said Zeya, who was earlier a deputy executive secretary with the US secretary of state.
This has been posted earlier in this thread.zra S Zeya, Minister Councilor for Political Affairs of US Embassy in New Delhi called on Bihar Deputy Chief Minister Sushil Kumar Modi in Patna on March 3, 2011. They discussed on several issues. Modi informed Zeya about women empowerment, campaign against corruption and speedy trials undertaken by the state government.
Ok Her roots are in Bettiah of West Champaran acc to this report.Zeya, who has her roots in Bihar's West Champaran district, was talking with students of the city-based Indian Institute of Business Management about Indo-US relations at the American Centre here.
Not a guru. But it has been pointed out many times already that no arraignment has taken place yet. cheer haran and a broken family apart, it is time for introspection, to promote transparency, to promote the fate of the lot without immunity, and to remove systemic flaws -- on both sides.TKiran wrote:I have a pooch for the Gurus, ...
Sequence is like his.UlanBatori wrote:So from what I read so far per SD actions:
1. DK did not have immunity.
2. Goons arrested and did custodial atrocities.
3. She was released on bail.
5. SD asked India to WAIVE IMMUNITY so she could be tried and further atrocitied.
6. India refused.
7. Goons railroaded indictment through lynchmob.
8. India got her UN immunity to get her out of the US.
9. India got her out of the US
10. Bray of PiBs says that she NEVER HAD IMMUNITY.
0. DK was given immunity of some sort for the UN General Assembly, which was to last through end of 2013.vina wrote:Sequence is like his.UlanBatori wrote:So from what I read so far per SD actions:
1. DK did not have immunity.
2. Goons arrested and did custodial atrocities.
3. She was released on bail.
5. SD asked India to WAIVE IMMUNITY so she could be tried and further atrocitied.
6. India refused.
7. Goons railroaded indictment through lynchmob.
8. India got her UN immunity to get her out of the US.
9. India got her out of the US
10. Bray of PiBs says that she NEVER HAD IMMUNITY.
1. DK did not have immunity.
2. Goons arrested and did custodial atrocities.
3. She was released on bail.
4. India got her UN immunity(US could not deny that transfer request that would be a treaty violation)
5. SD asked India to WAIVE IMMUNITY so she could be tried and further atrocitied.
6. India refused. (this is standard diplomatic practice to ask for waiver as is refusal)
7. US expelled DK and she left US
8. India expels Wayne May , and Mohtarma May is "Anmauled" by BRF, W May and A May and Paco pack off!
9. Goons railroaded indictment through lynchmob.
10. Bray of PiBs says that she NEVER HAD IMMUNITY.
DK stated that she repeatedly told the police that she had immunity, but to no avail.Shreeman wrote:0. DK was given immunity of some sort for the UN General Assembly, which was to last through end of 2013.
I dont think "did not have immunity is right" the immunity paperwork is in this thread in the early pages. At best, you can say her initial immunity is disputed by PB.
I think it is important not to "misunderestimate" any judicial system and imagine that justice will be done, especially if we are fighting the system or powerful entities in the US. In the Bositive news thread I posted a link about a PhD student who tried to fight Johns Hopkins after his work was plagiarized. As far as I know the case got nowhere and the student punished in various unrelated ways despite everything being open and knownYogi_G wrote:Can we from BR put a legal case requesting for extradition of PB for the illegal "extradition" of SR from India? Some contempt of court charges will also hold good.
The way I understood it is that US didn't give her immunity post facto, but only for the period of her new posting at UN (the new UN posting after the incident, not the earlier UN accreditation). After that period she would be liable to be prosecuted.shiv wrote:The fact that the US accepted that she was entitled to immunity and let her go indicates that the US state dept accepts that she had immunity at the time of her arrest and certainly at the time of her alleged criminal act.
If the US decided to grant her immunity post facto it would be breaking its own laws.
Exactly whom are the US police arming themselves against?But when local police forces carry assault weapons and patrol America's main streets with tanks and drones, the lines blur between the military and law enforcement. The growing militarization of the United States appears to be occurring at home as well as abroad, a phenomenon which is troublesome and sure to continue without decisive action.
That part 'immunity does not cover acts prior to receiving immunity' seems to be correct legal position. But during the immunity people may level charges but no case can be filed nor can the person be arrested. Then there is this statute of limitations. AFAIK it stops during the time of immunity and resumes after the end of immunity.UlanBatori wrote:I think the legal eagals here are perhaps misunderstimating the point that the distinguished bar-ristah KLNMurthy Esq., QC, has raised.
4. SD opines that immunity does not cover acts prior to receiving immunity. This is sheer pakistan - no UN diplomat and no national leader from any nation would agree to set foot in US if that were really the case - a month after arriving, the Sikh Rights Group or the Red Brigade Rights Group or the Lashkar-e-Toiba Rights Group or the Iraqi Rights Group would file under the 1790 law for actions alleged to have occurred 20 years ago, and whammo! the Cavity Search/Virginity Test Brigade arrives.
39-year-old Khobragade, who was posted as Deputy Consul General in New York, was also accredited as an “Advisor to the Permanent Mission of India to the United Nations” by the UN w.e.f. 26th August 2013 and her status as an Advisor was valid until 31 December 2013. The accreditation was for the UN General Assembly 2013.
Under the “Convention on the Privileges and Immunities of the United Nations”, Article 4 Section 11A specifies “Immunities from personal arrest or detention and from the seizure of their personal baggage” of all representatives of members to the UN and further the Article specifies that the expression “Representative” shall be deemed to include all Delegates, Deputy Delegates, Advisors, Technical Experts and Secretaries of delegations.
“Her arrest, therefore, on December 12th 2013 was contrary to her status on that date,” sources said.
Ah, yes, which is why those SD LegalThat part 'immunity does not cover acts prior to receiving immunity' seems to be correct legal position.