Indo-Israel: News and Discussion

Manny · Post by **Manny** » 10 Jun 2011 07:39

arnab wrote:
Manny wrote:Israel was created FOR Jews because christian genocide of Jews. 6 million (almost 1/3rd) of them were burnt in an oven!

Only a leftist (I wish to say far worse things here) would try to equate them with Pakistanis.
Manny ji,

If this is true, then it begs the question Amejindehad asked - If israel was created to assuage european / christian guilt - why was it not carved out of Germany / Poland etc? Why should palestenians 'pay' for european crimes? The answer is because things are actually a little more complicated than that.

They should have. Germany never really paid the price. Entire Berlin at the least should have been carved out as well as an European retreat for the Isralies.

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 10 Jun 2011 07:40

Arjun wrote: Not anti Jew - but anti Judaism the religion....you made a mention of Judaism as a problem for the world and I responded to it.

Do you disagree the relations between the three religions of the region has contributed to lots of takleef in that region and other parts of the World? Highlighting that does not make one anti-Judaism or anti-Islam or anti-Christianity.

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 10 Jun 2011 07:41

Purush wrote:Just setting the record straight here

SwamyG wrote:
The truth is Pakistan and India share history, language, food, religion, culture ityadi.
Speak for yourself.

I share no language, food, culture or religion with the Packees.
And neither do I want to.

Saar, I am more from the South than you.....

arnab · Post by **arnab** » 10 Jun 2011 07:42

Manny wrote:They should have. Germany never really paid the price. Entire Berlin should have been carved out as well as an European retreat for the Isralies.

That is ofcourse a different issue. But if you agree with Amejinehad's point - then you must also agree that the creation of israel in its present form is an illegal one, done by 'robbing Peter to pay Paul'.

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 10 Jun 2011 07:46

skumar wrote: The arrogance is thinly disguised usually - I hope sometime in this decade, Israel will need to buy Indian weapons. Funny though it may be.

However, I will disagree on any == between Israel and Pakistan.

It took only a few posts before he resorted to show India in a poor light. And he comes to forum dedicated to Indian Military, and BRFites send peace doves and lotion to nurse his injury. I doubt the sincerity.

My == is mainly on the way the two countries were created and the way these two countries blackmail/lobby the other countries. Other BRFites have made it look as if I am saying == on all things. It is generalization at the best.

Manny · Post by **Manny** » 10 Jun 2011 07:48

Does Indian school even teach about the Holocaust in high school?

I never learnt about the Holocaust when I went to a Catholic school. They took us out and showed a movie on how the Aryans invaded India and drove the Dravidians south of India. Oh yeah..They made sure we south Indians hated the north Indian Aryans. But nothing about the Holocaust.

When I saw the movie Odessa file in my late teens was when I started learning about Jews and the Holocaust.

Until then I thougt Jews were some gypsies with crooked nose and real stingy people. That was my padre taught us during Shakepeare (Merchant of Venice).

No wonder some dolt in Mumbai wanted to start a restaurant called Hitler.

No wonder Sharuckk Khan and Rani Mukharjee in a Q & A about who they admired most answered "Hitler".

The lefti Nehru and his coitre made sure Indians do not learn anything about the Holocaust. Thats why you find these lefties who make these outrages crap statements

Manny · Post by **Manny** » 10 Jun 2011 07:48

arnab wrote:
Manny wrote:They should have. Germany never really paid the price. Entire Berlin should have been carved out as well as an European retreat for the Isralies.
That is ofcourse a different issue. But if you agree with Amejinehad's point - then you must also agree that the creation of israel in its present form is an illegal one, done by 'robbing Peter to pay Paul'.

Not really. Israel bought the land. They did not invade. And nobody robbed it and gave it to them.

brihaspati · Post by **brihaspati** » 10 Jun 2011 07:50

I am wondering. The Portuguese Inquisition in India and the Islamic barbarities on India [not the Chabad house case] both possibly related to the existence of Jews in the ME? The Spanish and the Portuguese decimated half the civilization of Meso-America because of the evil presence of the Jews in ME? Christian Europeans in Africa and Asia - conflict with the Jews again in ME? The Turks traveled all the way from central Asia with their pristine swords and consciences only to create problems in Eastern Europe - again because of the Jews in ME?

arnab · Post by **arnab** » 10 Jun 2011 07:53

Manny wrote:
Not really. Israel bought the land. They did not invade. And nobody robbed it and gave it to them.

Excuse me? bought the land from whom? the original owners or the colonisers / squatters?

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 10 Jun 2011 07:54

>> Does Indian school even teach about the Holocaust in high school?

in detail with pics of the victims of the concentration camps, this is in CBSE, the most leftist of the school boards. also, manny, kindly limit yourself to commenting on the message, not the messenger. do not indulge in speculation about who is a leftie and who is not.

________________
swamy saar, I will respond later, it will take a bit of time

________________

>> Excuse me? bought the land from whom? the original owners or the colonisers / squatters?

mostly from the arabs.

Manny · Post by **Manny** » 10 Jun 2011 07:54

You got to read about "Blood Libel"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood_libel

Blood libel (also blood accusation[1][2]) is a false accusation or claim[3][4][5] that religious minorities, usually Jews, murder children to use their blood in certain aspects of their religious rituals and holidays.[1][2][6] Historically, these claims—alongside those of well poisoning and host desecration—have been a major theme in European persecution of Jews.[4]

Blood libels typically allege that Jews require human blood for the baking of matzos for Passover, although this element was absent in the earliest cases that claimed (the contemporary) Jews reenacted the crucifixion. The accusations often assert that the blood of Christian children is especially coveted, and, historically, blood libel claims have been made to account for otherwise unexplained deaths of children. In some cases, the alleged victim of human sacrifice has become venerated as a martyr, a holy figure around whom a martyr cult might arise. Four of these have been previously canonized as saints, namely William of Norwich, Little Saint Hugh of Lincoln, Simon of Trent (these were decanonized in the 20th century), and Gavriil Belostoksky who remains canonized in the Russian Orthodox Church.

Imagine this, Just imagine, the Golaith religion for over 2000 years went after a small tribe of people, hounded them again and again with such vile stories. These things should be taught to Indian children as part of history.

To compare these persecuted people with Porkistanis who were the persecutors is unpardonable. The moral relativism of the left gone insane.

Manny · Post by **Manny** » 10 Jun 2011 08:00

Will do Rahul.

arnab · Post by **arnab** » 10 Jun 2011 08:08

[quote="Rahul M>> Excuse me? bought the land from whom? the original owners or the colonisers / squatters?

mostly from the arabs.[/quote]

Not enough to constitute a state - either on the basis of population or ownership.

On September 3, UNSCOP issued its report to the General Assembly declaring its majority recommendation that Palestine be partitioned into separate Jewish and Arab states. It noted that the population of Palestine at the end of 1946 was estimated to be almost 1,846,000, with 1,203,000 Arabs (65 percent) and 608,000 Jews (33 percent). Growth of the Jewish population had been mainly the result of immigration, while growth of the Arab population had been “almost entirely” due to natural increase. It observed that there was “no clear territorial separation of Jews and Arabs by large contiguous areas”, and even in the Jaffa district, which included Tel Aviv, Arabs constituted a majority.[5] Land ownership statistics from 1945 showed that Arabs owned more land than Jews in every single district in Palestine. The district with the highest percentage of Jewish ownership was Jaffa, where 39 percent of the land was owned by Jews, compared to 47 percent owned by Arabs.[6] In the whole of Palestine at the time UNSCOP issued its report, Arabs owned 85 percent of the land,[7] while Jews owned less than 7 percent.

The partition plan put forth by UNSCOP sought to create within Palestine a Jewish state contrary to the express will of the majority of its inhabitants. Despite constituting only a third of the population and owning less than 7 percent of the land, it sought to grant to the Jews more than half of Palestine for purpose of creating that Jewish state. It would, in other words, take land from the Arabs and give it to the Jews. The inherent injustice of the partition plan stands in stark contrast to alternative plan proposed by the Arabs, of an independent state of Palestine in which the rights of the Jewish minority would be recognized and respected, and which would afford the Jewish population representation in a democratic government. The partition plan was blatantly prejudicial to the rights of the majority Arab population, and was premised on the rejection of their right to self-determination.

http://www.foreignpolicyjournal.com/201 ... of-israel/

Manny · Post by **Manny** » 10 Jun 2011 08:21

Jordan is Palestine. Jordan is their homeland.

When the Invader Mughals vacate the occupied land of Sindh/Punjab, then we can talk about Jews vacating.

I want the left in India asking the Invader Mughals to vacate and seek justice!

arnab · Post by **arnab** » 10 Jun 2011 08:26

Manny wrote:Jordan is Palestine.

When the Mughals vacate the occupied land of Sindh/Punjab, then we can talk about Jews vacating.

True

which brings us back to the original point that Israel was not infact created as a gift to assuage European holocaust guilt. The ownership issues predate the 1940s.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 10 Jun 2011 08:28

>> Not enough to constitute a state

true.

Arjun · Post by **Arjun** » 10 Jun 2011 08:31

SwamyG wrote:
Arjun wrote: Not anti Jew - but anti Judaism the religion....you made a mention of Judaism as a problem for the world and I responded to it.
Do you disagree the relations between the three religions of the region has contributed to lots of takleef in that region and other parts of the World? Highlighting that does not make one anti-Judaism or anti-Islam or anti-Christianity.

You take a 30,000 feet look as an outsider into centuries of history and conclude that Judaism was also part of the problem in the dispute there. And you seriously expect outsiders not to take a similar 30,000 feet view at the whole subcontinental partition and not conclude that Hindus (Veer Savarkar et al) did not have a hand in the two-nation theory?

I am a strong believer in the theory that the bulk of problems around the world are caused by religion. Specifically by those religions that are both exclusivist and expansionist in their aims.

You obviously know how the major religions stack up on that criteria. And any active opposition to this combination of exclusivism and expansionism automatically implies that ideologies that don't fall in this category are to be supported and encouraged.

Manny · Post by **Manny** » 10 Jun 2011 08:32

So when are the Palestinians and the lefties of the world going to support Indians (not Hindus) to push the Invader Mughals occupying our Sindh/Punjab (The Indus valley civilization) into the Arabian Sea so we can get back our rightful homeland?

Purush · Post by **Purush** » 10 Jun 2011 08:33

devesh wrote:^^^^
we might score a self goal by that commentary, but in long term it's self defeating. we need to highlight to the world that Pak is India gone deracinated. we need to let the world know this is what India is like when we are totally deracinated.

and Pak itself needs to be reminded every now and then that they are actually Indians. historically, genetically, they are Indians and by trying to cut that off, they are only bleeding themselves....their trade/economy has depended on GV for thousands of years. they are India. they share language, food, clothing with Indian population. Punjab.

I don't agree at all.

We may have shared common culture, cuisine etc with the previous inhabitants of the geographical area currently known as Pakistan. Those people with whom we had shared common elements moved to India after the partition.

I/we share nothing in common with the current bunch of savages inhabiting the political pseudoentity known as pakistan.

As for reminding Pak, educating the world etc, I'd rather not bother. In an ideal world, we'd have a high powered double layered electric fence separating India from Pakistan. No check points, no border crossing, no 'people-to-people' contacts. Let the pacquis do whatever they want on their side of the border as long as they don't bother India.

I have
-no desire to rescue pakistan
-no desire to absorb 180+ million f*ing lunatics into India (can you imagine what TF will happen to India!!!!)
-no desire to correct this aberration of history for H&D purposes
-no desire to take back the land alone (will not happen realistically, if it comes, it'll come with the savages)
-no desire to explain to the 'world' (who are pacqui supporters themselves) what happens with 'deracination' etc.

None. Nada. Zilch.

I'd prefer to concentrate on developing India.
Let the pacquis commit mass soosai, but please do it on their side of the border onlee.

Unfortunately, we live in a far-from-ideal world, no?

Purush · Post by **Purush** » 10 Jun 2011 08:36

SwamyG wrote: Saar, I am more from the South than you.....

Then why are you so eager to embrace pacqui culture, hain jee?

Again, let me reiterate...you may want to share common elements with the pacquis, but kindly leave me out of your fantasies.
I have nothing to do with pacqui culture.

arnab · Post by **arnab** » 10 Jun 2011 08:39

Manny wrote:So when are the Palestinians and the lefties of the world going to support Indians (not Hindus) to push the Invader Mughals occupying our Sindh/Punjab (The Indus valley civilization) into the Arabian Sea so we can get back our rightful homeland?

Well if you read the speech of the Israeli PM, the answer appears to be - 'never'

Israel wants the right to exist peacefully. It does not seek to revise ancient history. (Closer analogy of the Pandavs being content with the 5 villages)

Pranav · Post by **Pranav** » 10 Jun 2011 08:48

arnab wrote:
Manny wrote:Israel was created FOR Jews because christian genocide of Jews. 6 million (almost 1/3rd) of them were burnt in an oven!

Only a leftist (I wish to say far worse things here) would try to equate them with Pakistanis.
Manny ji,

If this is true, then it begs the question Amejindehad asked - If israel was created to assuage european / christian guilt - why was it not carved out of Germany / Poland etc? Why should palestenians 'pay' for european crimes? The answer is because things are actually a little more complicated than that.

It would not do to carve out a homeland for the Jews anywhere other than Israel. There is a religious belief that the Jews have to return to Israel (Aliyah), after a Holocaust, to prepare for the coming of the Messiah, reconstruction of the Third Temple, the "End of the (present) World", and the beginning of the reign of the Messiah, and so on and so forth. I suppose many modern Israelis are not particularly into these beliefs, but they have been influential historically.

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 10 Jun 2011 08:51

Arjun wrote:
SwamyG wrote: Do you disagree the relations between the three religions of the region has contributed to lots of takleef in that region and other parts of the World? Highlighting that does not make one anti-Judaism or anti-Islam or anti-Christianity.
You take a 30,000 feet look as an outsider into centuries of history and conclude that Judaism was also part of the problem in the dispute there. And you seriously expect outsiders not to take a similar 30,000 feet view at the whole subcontinental partition and not conclude that Hindus (Veer Savarkar et al) did not have a hand in the two-nation theory?

You have not answered my question (directly). Zionism had a political and religious component. The creation of the State for a particular 'chosen people' is not part of an issue? I would not deny any right of opinion of insiders or outsiders on any issue regarding Savarkar or any body.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 10 Jun 2011 08:51

Let the Jews recapture Yathrib and settle there.

skumar · Post by **skumar** » 10 Jun 2011 09:02

arunsrinivasan wrote: I don't get this? Are we on a mission to turn allies into enemies? Pray tell me what harm has Israel done to India? Maybe a session or two spent reading Kautilya is in order.

No, we are not on a mission to turn allies into enemies. However, we should be on a mission to underline to our friends that transgressions will be dealt with firmly. Notice the Krittika Biswas incident. Does Kautilya suggest that we take uncalled for bs from friends?

Arjun · Post by **Arjun** » 10 Jun 2011 09:24

SwamyG wrote:You have not answered my question (directly). Zionism had a political and religious component. The creation of the State for a particular 'chosen people' is not part of an issue? I would not deny any right of opinion of insiders or outsiders on any issue regarding Savarkar or any body.

If the extent of the political component of this religion was to insist on a homeland based on its history, I would take it in a heartbeat !

You are talking about a religion that was not the majority in any nation, wanting to have one nation where they would be the majority - and they wanted it at their historical place of origination. And you seriously want to compare this level of 'political component' with religions that have majority in 50+ nations each and are not done with their expansionism? The comparison is totally and completely fraudulent.

Hindus might one day land up in the same situation - you think the insistence on having at least one homeland to call their own is not appropriate ? Btw, what is your stance on Ram Janmabhoomi? The underlying issues are related, though tangentially.

Look you are free to categorize Christianity, Judaism, Islam and Hinduism all as major problems for the world. But does that achieve anything by way of insight? I strongly disagree your equating Judaism with religions that are both exclusivist and expansionist.

skumar · Post by **skumar** » 10 Jun 2011 09:36

Manny wrote:Does Indian school even teach about the Holocaust in high school?

I never learnt about the Holocaust when I went to a Catholic school. They took us out and showed a movie on how the Aryans invaded India and drove the Dravidians south of India. Oh yeah..They made sure we south Indians hated the north Indian Aryans. But nothing about the Holocaust.

When I saw the movie Odessa file in my late teens was when I started learning about Jews and the Holocaust.

Until then I thougt Jews were some gypsies with crooked nose and real stingy people. That was my padre taught us during Shakepeare (Merchant of Venice).

No wonder some dolt in Mumbai wanted to start a restaurant called Hitler.

No wonder Sharuckk Khan and Rani Mukharjee in a Q & A about who they admired most answered "Hitler".

The lefti Nehru and his coitre made sure Indians do not learn anything about the Holocaust. Thats why you find these lefties who make these outrages crap statements

Au contraire, the Indian school system teaches a version of the holocaust that the Israeli school board would approve of. The Indian education system is dominated by lefties - so you should be actually thanking the lefties for this. Though the school system is local to states, the syllabus is more or less uniform. Not sure which school you went to where "they made sure we south Indians hated the north Indian Aryans. But nothing about the Holocaust." The only place I can think of is TN and even that is beginning to change.

So you would say that some dolt in Mumbai wanting to start a restaurant called Hitler is evidence of Indians not being taught about the holocaust? How about the dolt being a bad student or having flunked history or having gone to your school?

Pranav · Post by **Pranav** » 10 Jun 2011 09:53

skumar wrote:Not sure which school you went to where "they made sure we south Indians hated the north Indian Aryans. But nothing about the Holocaust." The only place I can think of is TN and even that is beginning to change.

The post said it was a school outing in a Catholic school. So the inculcation of the hate of North Indians was an extra-curricular activity.

Prior to the Vatican II reforms, there were still tensions in the Catholic Church vis-a-vis the Jews. Post Vatican II, the Catholic Church has been tamed, so to speak, but the change of outlook takes years to trickle down to the grassroots. The Protestants have generally been more Judeo-philic, right since the inception of Protestantism in the 15th and 16th centuries.

Manny · Post by **Manny** » 10 Jun 2011 09:57

Jews bought land legally from Arab owners who willingly sold it to them. Many Arabs didn't like the idea of Jews buying up their neighborhood, and started violent attacks. This grew into a major conflict between Arabs and Jews. In 1948 the UN decided to partition the land into two, one for a Jewish state and one for an Arab state. The Jews accepted, the Arabs did not and launched a war whose declared purpose was annihilation of the Jews. The Jews fought back and won. During the war some Arabs fled to make way for the Arab armies to kill the Jews. Others fled out of fear. Others were expelled because they were in strategic areas that would have made Israel indefensible had they been left in place.

IF the UN giving the land to Jews is not acceptable to the lefties, Neither should the Brits giving Bharat to the invading Mughals the foreigners. They gave the Bharat land of Sindh/Punjab. We have a right of return to our homeland of our Indus Valley civilization.

I am trying to recruit the liberal left to fight for a just and liberal cause of oppressed people. I hear thats right up their ally.

devesh · Post by **devesh** » 10 Jun 2011 10:00

skumar wrote:
arunsrinivasan wrote: I don't get this? Are we on a mission to turn allies into enemies? Pray tell me what harm has Israel done to India? Maybe a session or two spent reading Kautilya is in order.
No, we are not on a mission to turn allies into enemies. However, we should be on a mission to underline to our friends that transgressions will be dealt with firmly. Notice the Krittika Biswas incident. Does Kautilya suggest that we take uncalled for bs from friends?

i'm scratching my head. what transgressions committed by Israel against us??? AGAINST US being the important words here....if we are in a mood to pontificate, then there are much better and far more deserving targets than Israel. this little country has committed no transgression against India that is worth all this discussion and trouble and name-calling...

Manny · Post by **Manny** » 10 Jun 2011 10:02

"we should be on a mission to underline to our friends that transgressions will be dealt with firmly. "

"But we should be on a mission to surrender and suck up to our enemies that their transgressions will be to totally acceptable and help them transgress us even some more"

We should be so busy fighting our friends, we should have no time for our enemies! Thats how we show our Bravado and impress our fellowmen

devesh · Post by **devesh** » 10 Jun 2011 10:04

Pranav wrote:
skumar wrote:Not sure which school you went to where "they made sure we south Indians hated the north Indian Aryans. But nothing about the Holocaust." The only place I can think of is TN and even that is beginning to change.
The post said it was a school outing in a Catholic school. So the inculcation of the hate of North Indians was an extra-curricular activity.

Prior to the Vatican II reforms, there were still tensions in the Catholic Church vis-a-vis the Jews. Post Vatican II, the Catholic Church has been tamed, so to speak, but the change of outlook takes years to trickle down to the grassroots. The Protestants have generally been more Judeo-philic, right since the inception of Protestantism in the 15th and 16th centuries.

not true, Martin Luther was a rabid Jew hater...read some of his statements and you'll know.
Jew hatred was the most common thing that was uniform and consistent in its presence all across Europe, in a very overt manner, until the demise of Nazi Germany, after which, the movement went "underground." now, it will start picking up again.

and modern day EJ support Israel b/c they believe God will eventually persuade them to leave their heretic ways and return to the fold.....this nonsense is deeply offensive to Jews. but in modern geopolitics, they bear b/c they have no other option...

vera_k · Post by **vera_k** » 10 Jun 2011 10:07

skumar wrote:Au contraire, the Indian school system teaches a version of the holocaust that the Israeli school board would approve of. The Indian education system is dominated by lefties - so you should be actually thanking the lefties for this.

Not sure where you are getting this from, but at least in late 80s/early 90s Maharashtra, the schools were teaching a version of history that was mostly Congress party propaganda. The European experience of world war 2 was covered fleetingly, with most coverage focused around Gandhi, Congress and Bose.

Manny · Post by **Manny** » 10 Jun 2011 10:08

Thats right, the Protestant founder Martin Luther's anti semtic rantings was the impetus for the Holocaust. Even more than Hitlers Mein Kampf.

http://www.nobeliefs.com/luther.htm

Martin Luther's dirty little book:
On the Jews and their lies
A precursor to Nazism
by Jim Walker

Although Luther did not invent anti-Jewishness, he promoted it to a level never before seen in Europe. Luther bore the influence of his upbringing and from anti-Jewish theologians such as Lyra, Burgensis, (and John Chrysostom, before them). But Luther's 1543 book, "On the Jews and their lies" took Jewish hatred to a new level when he proposed to set fire to their synagogues and schools, to take away their homes, forbad them to pray or teach, or even to utter God's name. Luther wanted to "be rid of them" and requested that the government and ministers deal with the problem. He requested pastors and preachers to follow his example of issuing warnings against the Jews. He goes so far as to claim that "We are at fault in not slaying them" for avenging the death of Jesus Christ. Hitler's Nazi government in the 1930s and 40s fit Luther's desires to a tee.

So vehemently did Luther speak against the Jews, and the fact that Luther represented an honorable and admired Christian to Protestants, that his written words carried the "memetic" seeds of anti-Jewishness up until the 20th century and into the Third Reich. Luther's Jewish eliminationist rhetoric virtually matches the beliefs held by Hitler and much of the German populace in the 1930s.

Luther unconsciously set the stage for the future of German nationalistic fanaticism. William L. Shirer in his "The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich," puts it succinctly:

"Through his sermons and his magnificent translations of the Bible, Luther created the modern German language, aroused in the people not only a new Protestant vision of Christianity by a fervent German nationalism and taught them, at least in religion, the supremacy of the individual conscience. But tragically for them, Luther's siding with the princes in the peasant rising, which he had largely inspired, and his passion for political autocracy ensured a mindless and provincial political absolutism which reduced the vast majority of the German people to poverty, to a horrible torpor and a demeaning subservience. Even worse perhaps, it helped to perpetuate and indeed to sharpen the hopeless divisions not only between classes but also between the various dynastic and political groupings of the German people. It doomed for centuries the possibility of the unification of Germany."

Pranav · Post by **Pranav** » 10 Jun 2011 10:11

devesh wrote: not true, Martin Luther was a rabid Jew hater...read some of his statements and you'll know.
Jew hatred was the most common thing that was uniform and consistent in its presence all across Europe, in a very overt manner, until the demise of Nazi Germany, after which, the movement went "underground." now, it will start picking up again.

and modern day EJ support Israel b/c they believe God will eventually persuade them to leave their heretic ways and return to the fold.....this nonsense is deeply offensive to Jews. but in modern geopolitics, they bear b/c they have no other option...

You're right about Martin Luther, that's why I used the word "generally". He was a philo-Semite during the early part of his career, but turned against the Jews towards the end of his life.

You should also look at the French Huguenots, the Puritans, and the early Anglican Church, in the time of Oliver Cromwell, say. They were quite philo-Semitic.

Manny · Post by **Manny** » 10 Jun 2011 10:11

The evangelical hordes still have their wet dreams of converting all Jews to Jebus freaks like them so their messiah will come back and end the world (one of the requirement for the Messiah to come back is Jews have to be converted) and kill us all Hindus in a big ball of fire and take those Christians to heaven.

Most of Indians don't know this kind of crap. They only hear about Mother Theresa.

But note, the vast majority of Christians do not believe in this pap. Only the evangelicals, they are small but a rabid and powerful group.

Manny · Post by **Manny** » 10 Jun 2011 10:15

Today, there is a big conspiracy to re write history by denying that christianity had anything to do with the Holocaust and that Hitler was an occultist. But that begs the question of ordinary christian Germans who where Hitlers willing executioners. What about them? Where they not Christians? Oh no, they were under the spell of the Occultists they say!

LOL

skumar · Post by **skumar** » 10 Jun 2011 10:23

vera_k wrote:
skumar wrote:Au contraire, the Indian school system teaches a version of the holocaust that the Israeli school board would approve of. The Indian education system is dominated by lefties - so you should be actually thanking the lefties for this.
Not sure where you are getting this from, but at least in late 80s/early 90s Maharashtra, the schools were teaching a version of history that was mostly Congress party propaganda. The European experience of world war 2 was covered fleetingly, with most coverage focused around Gandhi, Congress and Bose.

I went to school in Mumbai in the late 80s and can vouch that we were taught that 6 million jews were killed in the holocaust. I remember our anguish and disgust and heated discussions about the entire population of Mumbai being killed (at the time, the population of Mumbai was less than 6 million). But you are right, the focus was more on the Gandhi / Congress and their response to WW2. The leftists in NCERT could not remove that since it was too recent, I guess

while they succeeded in brain-washing generations of Indians on the AIT.

Manny · Post by **Manny** » 10 Jun 2011 10:32

I watched the AIT film (a cartoon like film) where north Indians hordes descended on us Dravidians and drove us to the south. We south Indians were flaying our arms and running south like cowards. We apparently never even fought back. We were such wuss it looked like. We were the victims you see.

But for a 12 year old, I was all gungho to go kick some North Indian arse! I totally fell for it guys. I am telling ya.

I didn't want to be kicked around and pushed around anymore..for I had no place to go. I am from Kanya Kumari. I would have to fall into the Ocean

For the record, I went to Santhome High School, Chennai. It was a good school otherwise. So I don't want to sound ungrateful for I got a good education otherwise.

ArmenT · Post by **ArmenT** » 10 Jun 2011 10:34

I went to school in a very southern indian state and I don't think they talked much about the Holocaust in history class. Actually I don't think we discussed WW-I or II at all, or they were just glossed over. We spent much more time reading up medieval Indian history + British Raj really. Either they never taught much 20th century history or I fell asleep during those classes and don't remember a thing about them.

All I learned about World war II was by reading books by myself out of my own interest, such as Cornelius Ryan, William Shirer, Winston Churchill's memoris etc. and the only reason I got interested in such stuff is because of Biggles books and Commando comics.

And for the record, many of my Jewish friends are amused to know that I thought Judaism and Christianity were the same religion until something like first or second year of college. Heck, I think I only learned that there was a difference after reading Leon Uris' Mila-18.