shiv wrote:matrimc wrote:
Is it different from "dharmO rakshati rakshitA:"?
Can you define dharma?
Can you define freedom?
PS Just noticed that Pulikeshi has put up a list. I can see nothing in that list that equates with the sense in which "freedom" is used.
matrimc wrote:
Shiv ji:
No I cannot define dharma because it is a free variable in a meta rule. My understanding is (loosely speaking) is that sanatana dharma is similar to but brooder than what has been termed Logical Positivism and has been discredited because of non-expressiveness of the English in particular and Germanic languages in general.
Let us say ancients over several millennia of churning the ocean of knowledge and experience have come up with a meta rule which goes something like the following (A stands for "forall" and E stands for "exists" though in logical formalism they are represented as upside down A and mirror image of E whose tines point leftward but in ASCII A and E are the usual notation as long as one follows the convention of not using these two symbols for anything else - neither literals nor variables but part of the alphabet, or equivalently one can assign a "reserved" or "distinguished" status to these two alphabet)
A x: If x is defended, x defends.
or
A x: if x is protected, x protects.
Since x is not defined x is called a free variable (i.e. x is not bound to any particular abstract or concrete "thing")
If one takes the above as template, then concrete rules can be generated.
Example 1: Substitute gOw for x, produces the concrete rule: if cow is protected, cow protects. Which is a true from empirical observation. Ancients would have seen situations that during years of plenty they butchered the cows then during lean times they had nothing to fall back. So the protect your cows from raiders.
Example 2: x <- Leader(s). if Leader(s) is(are) protected, he/she/they will protect.
Example 2a: X <- yagnya
Example 3: A smart gal came up to the guru(s) and said "I protected a cow thief. Instead of protecting me (and my property) he in fact stole my herd. Stop making these stupid rules." and modified the rule to constrain x to a set of objects which will yield only statements that are empirically observed to true.
(as an aside, Tautology is hereditary but a contradiction is not. In other words, every tautology whether it is ground (A true observation, axiom that is assumed to be true) or derived to be true from ground remains a tautology for aall time to come. This hereditary property is what is used by Godel to prove his two incompleteness theorems of Arithmetic based on Peano's axioms.
A few centuries passed and another person came up with the idea binding x with a set instead of only singleton objects.
So instead of listing each of the rks, he compiled them together into a book called rkveda and said
x <- rkveda where rkveda = {rks}.
x <- { rks in rk veda, yajur veda, sama veda, atharvana veda } and so on.
Climbing the ladder of this abstraction one eventually ends up with the definition for dharma which is "protecting dharma in turns protects you"
Why was Cong(I) routed in recent elections? They were unable to see beyond the immedaite vote bank politics and did not protect sanatana dharma so sanatana dharma did not protect them. IOW, they subverted secularism and secularism kicked them out.
(PS: I see Shiv posted something about xtianity. Simplistically speaking the schism between Roman Catholics and Church of England was because Pope did not follow his dharma of protecting the King of England's right to annul his marriage).
I refer again and again to the definition of Dharma given by Vyasa:
Para-upakaraya punyaya papaya para-peedanam
Benefiting others is punya/dharma.
Paining others is papa/adharma.
This is a very important and simple definition of dharma. And sice it is given by none other than Vyasa himself, it is authentic. So, we don't have to search for our own definitions of dharma.
There are 4 purusha-arthas. Purusha means any human(man or woman). Artha means objectives which need to be acquired or achieved.
So, what are the 4 purusha-arthas:
a) dharma
b) artha
c) kama
d) moksha
Dharma and adharma has already been defined. So, now, lets see artha. Artha means objectives which need to be acquired or achieved. Basically, all economic transactions fall under artha category.
Now, kama: kama means desires.
Finally, Moksha: moksha means freedom.
So, we have 3 factors:
a) dharma
b) artha
c) kama
Artha: all things that one wants to achieve. Generally, all economic transactions.
Kama: all types of desires. Generally, all romantic desires.
Now, in simple terms,
artha means 'what can I gain?', 'how can I gain?'.
Kama means 'what I like.' and 'what I don't like'.
Now, generally, both artha and kama involves earning something for oneself and keeping it with oneself. Now, generally, that puts one in conflict and competition with others. At basic level, artha and kama involves to take something from others or to keep something with oneself protecting it from being taken by others.
So, we have broadly two approaches:
a) taking something from others or denying something to others by protecting it - artha & kama - greed
b) giving something to others - dharma - sacrifice (thyaga).
Both these seem to be mutually contradictory. So, a society/individual has to choose which of these two approaches one will adopt.
Dharmo rakshathi rakshithah is very interesting in this. It is saying that those who protect dharma will be protected. That means 'those who protect others will be protected'. It also means that 'those who hurt others will be hurt'. This seems to reconcile the mutually contradictory paths.
So, what 'dharmo rakshathi rakshithah' means is that you can protect yourself by protecting others. But, generally, one thinks that one can protect oneself only by hurting others.
So, broadly, there are two approaches:
a) absolute greed - artha & kama
b) absolute sacrifice - dharma
Dharmo rakshathi rakshithah means that best way to serve your greed is by sacrifice. Infact, this is also declared in upanishads: "thena thyekthena bunjithah" (enjoy by sacrificing).This is the interesting aspect. How to explain this seeming irony about the saying 'dharmo rakshathi rakshithah'? How can one enjoy by sacrificing?
But strictly speaking, there is no irony at all. Absolute greed is not viable. For any system to work, it needs many different beings to come together and work. No being can survive on its own. Every being needs other beings for various reasons. So, any intelligent person will be able to see that one has to take care of others, so that they will take care of you. If you exploit others due to greed, then eventually it will lead to your own destruction. This is the way world is designed. So, absolute greed in untenable.
Most societies recognize that absolute greed is untenable. That one has to take care of other human beings, plants and animals because one's own welfare is dependent on them. For example, the saying 'a friend in need is a friend indeed' conveys this in a round-about way. See just as you will expect your friends to come to your help during your distress, others will also expect you to come to their help when they are in distress. If you don't help others when they are in distress, then no one will come to your aid when you are in distress. This much is recognized by even animals. So, they help those whom they think will help them when they are in distress. Generally, it means helping people of our family/clan/herd or neighbours, so that they help us when we are in distress.
That means each member of the system has to overcome one's absolute greed for long term and more sustainable welfare. That requires some sacrifice from each member to protect the system. If you protect the system, system will protect you. Dharmo rakshathi rakshithah.
But, absolute dharma I.e absolute sacrifice is also not possible for ordinary beings. Absolute sacrificing (I.e giving everything to others or giving whatever others want) is possible for only someone who himself is infinitely rich but does not desire anything for himself and is ready to give everything to others. This is the definition of God in Hindhuism. God is called bhagawan I.e infinitely rich. Everything in the world belongs to God according to Hindhuism. However, the God does not want any of it for himself/herself. All that is given away to others.
This leads to another upanishadic statement: thyagena ekena amruthathva manasuhu
Immortality is achieved only by sacrificing. More one sacrifices, more one becomes immortal. This is related to moksha.
Moksha means freedom. Freedom from what?
Artha and kama lead to constant fear. There is fear from all beings that they will take what belongs to us. And there is constant fear for others from us that we will take what belongs to them. Freedom from fears is called Moksha. Freedom from fears towards others from us and freedom from fears towards us from others. Such freedom is possible only if we are not going to take anything from others and don't worry about others taking anything from us.
So, more one sacrifices, more one becomes free. This is the essence of hindhuism.
Now, capitalism and democracy are the reverse. In capitalism and democracy, the idea is that when each person takes care of their own greed, then there will be checks and balances in the system. The greed of one entity is supposed to balance out the greed of another entity. However, this system ignores the relative hierarchies and power structures. All entities are not equally powerful. If more powerful entities form a cabal and indulge in absolute greed, then other less powerful entities find it hard to counter that in capitalism and democracy.
Western universalism glorifies personal greed particularly kama. Their hierarchy is kama is greater than artha is greater than dharma is greater than moksha.
In hindhuism, moksha is the highest state of dharma. Dharma is greater than artha is greater than kama.
Vyasa declares that artha can only be achieved through dharma. This is dharma-shaasthra.
General worldview is that dharma requires artha. To help others, one needs to earn first is the thinking. This is the artha-shaasthra.