West Asia News and Discussions

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disha
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by disha »

Raja Bose wrote: I will provide a very sanitized version but people will get the drift.

A very good friend of mine and one time GHQ was one of those kidnapped and taken hostage by Saddam's forces during the Kuwait invasion. She was a kid back then and with her family had just landed at Kuwait airport after a vacation trip to US when Saddam's paratroopers landed and captured the airport - literally after their aircraft landed. She was taken hostage along with her family and 100s of others and were moved to Iraq. Saddam kept them moving from one place to another without any food, water or even basic shelter. Her dad along with a few other men were allowed to "buy" food and water from local Iraqis who basically fleeced them mercilessly. One piece of bread cost them something like US$100.- and was shared between a family of 4. Apart from this, the Iraqi soldiers and militia had stripped them of all their belongings, jewelry and most of their cash. Throughout the month and a half ordeal they only had one 4 ft x 4 ft piece of cloth to lay on the ground and sleep for the entire family. So her parents basically slept on bare ground while letting their kids sleep on that piece of cloth taking turns. Her mom still has that piece of cloth as memories of that time and she showed it to me - it still has the bloodstains on it when it was used to bandage someone's head after they got hit by an Iraqi soldier's rifle butt. Finally when they were moved near Baghdad, her dad and a few other guys drafted a letter to the local military commander, to allow them to go to the Indian Embassy. They were allowed to under a heavy guard (& beaten black and blue after the journey). Guess what happened when they reached the embassy? The ambassador refused to meet them, asking them to get an appointment! :shock: All this time these guys were pleading to be evacuated. Their kids were literally starving, there were families with newborns where the parents were going without food for days so that they could save their cash to buy milk for the babies, they had nothing except the clothes on their back. And our esteemed diplomatic corps sweetly told them that they were awaiting orders from New Delhi and meanwhile could they please remove their smelly selves back to captivity and stop soiling the beautiful Indian embassy premises? Finally after a month and a half, they were released and taken to the Jordan border where they stayed in refugee camps before being repatriated to India. Within 2 years of that incident, my friend's dad gave up his Indian citizenship and moved to another country where they still live. When I asked him why did he do that, he bluntly told me that he wished to pledge his allegiance to a country whom he could actually trust to rescue his kids in times of extreme danger. I had no answer to that.

That in a nutshell is, what India has become. The way we deal with these events is the same way we watch the soccer World Cup. We root for sides and plead allegiance to countries who have no link with us becoz we ourselves are so weak that we have no say in anything and have to pray that we catch a favorable wind which will lead us to safety. Everything is Ram bharose. Even bird poop has better control of its destiny than what India has in the international arena.
Thanks for telling this story. The ambassador Kamal Bakshi should face a firing squad.

Ramana, thanks for fixing the story - it was not PVNR but Chandrasekhar. And yes, the Indian Govt. did move its ass eventually.

Also this is where we as a nation fail ourselves. There is nothing stopping the gent above and others from putting together a first hand account (even now they can do it) and tell others.

There are enough clauses in the IPC for booking the ambassador under dereliction of duty. Let him face the trial., let other babus also face trial and even if the babu is let off - the fire is set under their arses.
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by ramana »

What about MFos asking for duty on personal gold jewellery of the evacuees!!!
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by A_Gupta »

If we do not record what happened in explicit and exact detail and publish the records, how on earth do we expect to keep it from happening again?

Somehow magically, the knowledge of past mistakes which is unwritten and unspoken, is supposed to percolate from brain to brain?

I am sorry gentlemen, but IF YOU DO NOT RECORD THE ATROCITY, IT NO LONGER HAPPENED after the living memories of it fade away. That is why, e.g., what happened in Ayodhya at the site of the Babri Masjid 400 years ago had to be determined by court and archaeologists. (And that is a very mild example.)
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by A_Gupta »

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/indiahome/in ... -risk.html

This from June 16.
Close to 90 Indians, including 44 nurses from Kerala, are stranded in the Iraqi cities of Mosul and Tikrit that have been overrun by jihadist militants, and there is little hope that they can be evacuated any time soon.

There are an estimated 16,000 to 18,000 Indians in Iraq, though most of them live in cities like Basra, Najaf and Baghdad that have not yet been affected by the offensive launched by the Islamic State of Iraq and Syria.

ISIS fighters have overrun one complete province and parts of three more since last week.

Forty-six Indians, including the nurses working at a hospital, are stranded in Tikrit, the birthplace of Saddam Hussein, located about 150km from Baghdad.

Forty more Indians, mostly construction workers, are in Mosul, Iraq's second-largest city.

Mosul was among the first of the major cities captured by the al-Qaeda splinter group.

"The roads are not safe. We have been talking to officials of the Iraqi government, UN and Red Crescent and they have all advised that the stranded Indians should remain indoors. They can't come to Baghdad now," Ajay Kumar, the Indian Ambassador to Iraq, told Mail Today on Monday.

K.C. Joseph, Kerala's Minister for Non-Resident Keralites Affairs, said there was concern about the nurses stranded in Tikrit.

"Thirty-two of them have informed us that they want to return. Some of the nurses have not been paid their salaries for the past six months.

"They are all scared. It would take three to four hours for them to drive to the nearest airport but authorities are saying they can't guarantee the safety of the nurses if they travel in the current circumstances," he told Mail Today.
Last edited by A_Gupta on 19 Jun 2014 03:32, edited 1 time in total.
ramana
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by ramana »

A-Gupta right as usual.

K Fabian wrote his memoirs in 2003 that talk about his stint in the MEA.

Also the Assoc of Indian Diplomats (AID :)) is recording a sanitized version in their own journal. It still is revealing.

I linked the site in FP thread.
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by Gerard »

The Middle East's own Thirty Years' War has begun
The Middle East is not simply falling apart. It is taking a different shape, along very clear lines — far older ones than those the western powers rudely imposed on the region nearly a century ago. Across the whole continent those borders are in the process of cracking and breaking. But while that happens the region’s two most ambitious centres of power — the house of Saud and the Ayatollahs in Iran — find themselves fighting each other not just for influence but even, perhaps, for survival.
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by UlanBatori »

For a perspective on this Biggest Ever Airlift etc (OK, I agree it was big), consider how many desis board planes from Indian airports (or arrive) on a given day in late December. Each 747/A380/777 carries an average of, say, 400 to 450 passengers. Let's say 400 to average things out. 30 flights a day, counting Dilli, BOM, MAS, BLR, COK, Hyderabad, Kolkatta?

That's 12,000 ppl every day, routine. In 10 days you've gone over 100,000. OK, it's not easy, but it's nothing to crow about so much. The evacuation from Kedarnath environs, with no roads, slippery mountains, cold, and extreme danger, brought over 80,000 ppl out in much shorter time, and did you hear IA crow about that?

The Baboons make me sick.
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by Philip »

My In-laws were also trapped in Kuwait.They had a tough time too,hoofed it to Jordan before evacuation.

Air power won't stop ISIS,says this piece.Of course,you also need boots on the ground.This is where the Iranians and their Shiite brigades RG style come in.

http://news.usni.org/2014/06/17/opinion ... 234c8f82d4

Opinion: U.S. Air Power Won’t Defeat ISIS
By: Cmdr. Daniel Dolan
Published: June 17, 2014
As Iraq and Syria Islamic State (ISIS) insurgent forces advance on Baghdad, some American political leaders, led by Sen. John McCain (R-AZ) and Sen. Lindsey Graham (R-SC), have urged that the United States begin airstrikes immediately to stop the growing unrest in Iraq. Although air power may be the only expedient and politically acceptable option, there are several reasons why that all-too-familiar impulse to use our asymmetric advantage in airpower will not defeat ISIS.

In fact, history is almost devoid of examples of air power—when used alone—achieving anything resembling a decisive result. The 1999 NATO punitive bombing operation against Serbia stands as one of the only successful uses of air power alone in achieving a stated political objective.


History’s one example of such success embodies two lessons that can be drawn for comparison with the situation in Iraq/Syria. First, in the self-declared ISIS there is no recognized government that can be coerced into negotiation. That suggests that complete annihilation of the group will be necessary to return control to the Iraqi government. Which leads to the second point: Even if air power can achieve a measure of success, securing the peace after ISIS forces are defeated will require boots on the ground. Iraq’s Ambassador to the United States, Lukman Faily, stated on National Public Radio’s 16 June evening news program that “Iraq does not want, or need U.S. boots on the ground. . . . Iraq will provide the soldiers.” He went on to say that what Iraq needs to prevent what would be “one thousand [Osama] Bin Ladens” setting up camp in Iraq is U.S. “air supremacy, training, and assistance.”

The ISIS insurgents probably do not care that the United States moved another carrier strike group (CSG) into the Persian Gulf. If the United States can sort out the complex situation and actually determine what targets to hit in the dense ISIS-ontrolled urban territory, the mufti-clad insurgents will only hug the civilian population closer. Sorting out the bad guys will be a daunting task from 10,000 feet.


Our regional allies and the American public may appreciate the gesture of an extra CSG, but lawless insurgents are concerned only with local optics. Back to Kosovo, it was only when NATO realized that stopping a few Serbian military forces in Kosavar villages armed with cans of gasoline and a pack of matches was a tough mission for an F-15 that they began picking off important economic and infrastructure targets. It was then that the Serbian government agreed to negotiations. One must wonder of the wanna-be nation of ISIS: What are the economic and infrastructure targets that matter to a terrorist-led group that longs for the good old days of A.D. 900?

Finally, the most popular counter-factual argument being voiced by pundits is that if the United States had left a counterterrorism task force in Iraq, then crisis either wouldn’t have happened (because the insurgents would have feared the U.S. military), or the insurgents could have been easily defeated. If that is valid, then why is the flow of foreign fighters and motivated insurgents still a problem in Afghanistan? And why did it remain a persistent problem throughout our seven-plus years in Iraq? We have total air supremacy in Afghanistan and had it in Iraq, but that did not yield a decisive victory in either conflict. Air power alone did not win those wars—why then would it win this one?

The urge for the United States to apply some measure of expressive power is understandable, and assuming it can find someone or something worth blowing up, that is arguably the correct response. However, if the United States and its allies wish to preserve the shape of the world as depicted in the map that Sykes-Picot drew in 1916, a much larger and far more costly commitment to defeating ISIS will be required. Perhaps our ability to provide responsive air power is the best way to buy time for the reeling Iraqi government and security forces to catch their breath and prepare for the counteroffensive.
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by disha »

ramana wrote:A-Gupta right as usual.

K Fabian wrote his memoirs in 2003 that talk about his stint in the MEA.

Also the Assoc of Indian Diplomats (AID :)) is recording a sanitized version in their own journal. It still is revealing.

I linked the site in FP thread.
Ramana, it is not just Babooze accounts that A-Gupta is referring to. It is the first person people's account that is important.

What people remember is this., that under very strenous conditions Indian workers mostly males went over to Jordan and lived in a shelter and then were evacuated by India, inspite of India facing its own BOP/internal crises. What people do not know is the horrors visited on them by the Iraqis, the Saudis, the Kuwaitis, the west and then by the Indians themselves!

And there were others as well who were in the same boat - fillipinos, lankans, malaysians etc.

The first person accounts of people who went through this matter., and matter immensely. If 100k were evacuated, I am sure one will be able to find atleast 100 first person accounts! What we have is nothing - naada - zilch.
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by chanakyaa »

Raja Bose wrote:
UlanBatori wrote:All pretty-much describes the Forces of Sad-dam - (u can generalize that to whatever..). There are many traumatized survivors of that period trying to live in India, I have no wish to revive those horrors. I have posted before, on seeing the pathetic TV images of the Indian Ambassador to Iraq standing at the airport and bawling like a 3-year-old. He was frustrated that the Western airlift put the cats and dogs of their ppl way ahead in priority, over starving, sick, traumatized Indian kids.

That was just one of the less revolting images.

Eventually the Indian Navy sent a frigate or two, (OOOOOOoooooo!!) with a consignment of rice, to try to convince Sad-dam to allow Indians who were held hostage, to eat. Sad-dam basically used Indians as hostages and starved them after robbing them (and all sorts of other sadism) to claim to the world that HIS ppl were starving due to the embargo. May he starve in Houristan forever.

Point is, at that time, landing Indian planes in Bagdad was not easy. What is the hangup today?
I will provide a very sanitized version but people will get the drift.

A very good friend of mine and one time GHQ was one of those kidnapped and taken hostage by Saddam's forces during the Kuwait invasion. She was a kid back then and with her family had just landed at Kuwait airport after a vacation trip to US when Saddam's paratroopers landed and captured the airport - literally after their aircraft landed. She was taken hostage along with her family and 100s of others and were moved to Iraq. Saddam kept them moving from one place to another without any food, water or even basic shelter. Her dad along with a few other men were allowed to "buy" food and water from local Iraqis who basically fleeced them mercilessly. One piece of bread cost them something like US$100.- and was shared between a family of 4. Apart from this, the Iraqi soldiers and militia had stripped them of all their belongings, jewelry and most of their cash. Throughout the month and a half ordeal they only had one 4 ft x 4 ft piece of cloth to lay on the ground and sleep for the entire family. So her parents basically slept on bare ground while letting their kids sleep on that piece of cloth taking turns. Her mom still has that piece of cloth as memories of that time and she showed it to me - it still has the bloodstains on it when it was used to bandage someone's head after they got hit by an Iraqi soldier's rifle butt. Finally when they were moved near Baghdad, her dad and a few other guys drafted a letter to the local military commander, to allow them to go to the Indian Embassy. They were allowed to under a heavy guard (& beaten black and blue after the journey). Guess what happened when they reached the embassy? The ambassador refused to meet them, asking them to get an appointment! :shock: All this time these guys were pleading to be evacuated. Their kids were literally starving, there were families with newborns where the parents were going without food for days so that they could save their cash to buy milk for the babies, they had nothing except the clothes on their back. And our esteemed diplomatic corps sweetly told them that they were awaiting orders from New Delhi and meanwhile could they please remove their smelly selves back to captivity and stop soiling the beautiful Indian embassy premises? Finally after a month and a half, they were released and taken to the Jordan border where they stayed in refugee camps before being repatriated to India. Within 2 years of that incident, my friend's dad gave up his Indian citizenship and moved to another country where they still live. When I asked him why did he do that, he bluntly told me that he wished to pledge his allegiance to a country whom he could actually trust to rescue his kids in times of extreme danger. I had no answer to that.

That in a nutshell is, what India has become. The way we deal with these events is the same way we watch the soccer World Cup. We root for sides and plead allegiance to countries who have no link with us becoz we ourselves are so weak that we have no say in anything and have to pray that we catch a favorable wind which will lead us to safety. Everything is Ram bharose. Even bird poop has better control of its destiny than what India has in the international arena.
What can I say about your post!!! Looks like you must have snapped from the recent events. If it is true, the story moves me personally. I'm neither an expert on addressing human tragedy nor Eyerak nor on this thread's objective. Back on the story. If the same tragedy happened with me or my family, I may not have responded differently given the emotional trauma. But, I'm afraid SIR that your nutshell analysis on the country is flat out wrong. INDIA is running severely short of strong leaders and people who would serve the country without an expectations of a photo on India Today. Mahatma Gandhi had a easy choice to go back to South Africa and continue his lucrative career instead of walking around Nanga trying to convince and provide a common platform to an average Indian as to why they should struggle for freedom and throw British out. At this time India needs selfless leaders. Otherwise it is tough to shape opinions of billion population. As for your friend, he has every single right to look at his self interest and respond accordingly. But those of us who are lucky not to have gone through such traumatizing experience, it is our responsibility to make sure no one else's friend has the misfortune to say the same thing in the future. Please do not misunderstand my post as a full-of-air lecture. With a post-count of less than 350, who am I to lecture knowledgeable BRFites, let alone a forum moderator.
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by A_Gupta »

disha +1
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by chandrasekhar.m »

Raja Bose and Ulanbatori saars, thanks for telling those of us who were small kids in 1990 about the atrocities that happened then. There is no narrative about this episode in India that has educated I and my friends. Couple of weeks ago, I read Ulanbatori saar's post about the then ambassador crying on TV because Indian children were not being allowed on UN planes even though pets of Westerners were. I mentioned the same to my friends and all of them drew a blank and didn't believe such things would have happened. (I am not sure they do now either) Before these revelations, the only thing that I remember about India and the Gulf war is what I read sometime in the 2000s in a newspaper that Air India evacuated 110000 Indians in a record time and I was so proud of that. I had no idea the government was so callous and only did the evacuation after the damage was done.

As A_Gupta and disha saars and others have said, the youth of today who don't know what happened then must be educated or should educate themselves. I personally will search online for reports of the struggle of Indians in Iraq at that time.

Edit: Are there any books about that time?
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by symontk »

There were other dimensions too in the 1990 crisis. The crisis started when VP Singh was PM. But in midway, Chandrashekhar became PM (during November 1990). Due to political changes there were no good response from Indian Govt side. Only Kerala Govt made huge noises about Indian diaspora in ME

Also the evacuation was done from Amman, Jordan and not from Baghdad. Even the Indians in Kuwait had to drive thru Iraq to reach Jordan. While crossing over to Jordan the second part of the problems happened for Indians

Initially very less people took the Jordan route. They were trying to cross from Kuwait into Saudia which was becoming difficult. First few folks who crossed over to Jordan had harrowing experiences. All of them (incl. women and children, which was protested by Indian males but without any let off) were handcuffed by Jordanian border forces. They were not given food too. The people had to wait until Indian Amby arrived from Amman. Only after Indian Amby arrived Jordanian border forces allowed Indians inside Jordan with a temp visa

After few days only refugee camps were built in Amman. For these refugee camp a ship with supplies were send by Kerala Govt (not Indian Govt) which was again intercepted by US led MNF and turned back. It never reached Iraq or Kuwait. For Indians only food source was Air India flights reaching Amman

There were daily direct flights from Amman to Trivandrum thru Dubai. Some of them landed even at midnight at Trivandrum which was a novelty. I still remember seeing them flying over my home
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by Raja Bose »

udaym wrote:But, I'm afraid SIR that your nutshell analysis on the country is flat out wrong. INDIA is running severely short of strong leaders and people who would serve the country without an expectations of a photo on India Today.
You are talking about the cause, I am talking about the effect. They both refer to the same malady. :)
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by Manish_Sharma »

ramana wrote:UB hold your horses or what ever animals they use in Mangolia!

Oral History project Biggest Ever Air Evacuation in History pdf of the air lift in 1991.

The Indian Ambassador to Iraq at that time as stated in above pdf is Kamal Bakshi.
This is the ba$tard with photo:
http://www.adaptssi.org/trusteeandgovernngbody.html
Mr. Kamal Bakshi
Vice Chairperson, Mr. Kamal Bakshi has served as the Indian Ambassador to six countries, including Iraq, Austria, Sri Lanka and Sweden and has been associated with The Spastics Society of India for over 20 years, advising the organization on National affairs. He is our advisor on all important matters related to our interactions with the government officials. He was one of the three architects of the Charter of NRCI and has played a key role in the allocation of land in Mumbai for the setting up and extension of services of the organization. He gives help and support throughout the year on any issue where the organization needs help.
jahaan dikhe joote hi joote lagaane chaahiye
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by disha »

Symontk,

Evacuation was done from Basra as well. It was not "air evacuation" but ship based evacuation.

Chandrasekhar.m et al

http://www.rahulgladwin.com/docs/my-exp ... kuwait.php

And this from the other side - Babooze

http://www.associationdiplomats.org/pub ... ISTORY.pdf

And from the above, the CONgasura's fetish with gold reflected in the MOF
As we reached Delhi, an issue cropped up. Some of the evacuees were
carrying gold, but did not have money to pay the duty, if so warranted.
Before boarding, some of the passengers at Kuwait airport had wanted me to
disallow the carriage of gold by others. I had declined to interfere. Upon
reaching Delhi, I requested the Ministry of Finance that these people might be
allowed to leave their gold in lockers at the airport while arranging the duty
amount, but the Ministry did not agree. These people had to somehow arrange
the payment. To my mind, the Finance Ministry was unnecessarily difficult.
My idea was that if they did not want to import the gold, the owners could
take it out of India as they rebuilt their lives.
Last edited by disha on 19 Jun 2014 06:33, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by brihaspati »

Raja Bose wrote:OT but I have NO sympathy for DK or her dad. Zero. They are crooks of the highest order. The reason people protested against her treatment was becoz of the position she occupied as a member of India's diplomatic corps and what massa did was thuggery of the highest order. There is no sympathy for her as a person - she can go rot in hell along with her kind. I just need to visit the SF consulate once in a while to be reminded of her kind and the ch**tiyas (Copyright, negi) that they are. As the saying goes, Khans prey on Indians, Chinese prey on Indians, Indians prey on Indians.
But isnt that true of anyone who holds any post in the gov admin of any sort? They think they are superior people, with power over life and limb of the rest of Indians, infernally lower than them? That is what stretches from police to babooz at FS.
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by Philip »

Dithering O'Bomber (or should we now call him "O'Bumbler"?) is shortly going to partly responsible for an orgy of bloodletting in Iraq,adding to the misery and million+ killed during the illegal war conducted by Bush and BLiar,by chewing his nails instead of chewing ISIS with air strikes.

Iraqi ambassador to US fears Isis 'ethnic cleansing' unless Obama acts
Ambassador Lukman Faily tells the Guardian that US air strikes are vital to halt urgent Isis threat – but it has to happen
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/j ... nsing-isis

The events in Iraq mark the final nail in the coffin of the utter bankruptcy and end of US foreign policy diktat,the "Pax Americana" of the post WW2 era.Here is an Indian viewpoint on the same in the Ind.Express.
Just as the US turns a blind eye to Saudi mischief supporting Wahaabi ultra-Islamist ISIS terror in the region,so too does the US turn its other blind eye to similar mischief indulged in by Pak's ISI (funny how the initials are almost the same-no coincidence what?) against India,still supporting it with billions in mil. aid ,even though Pak is the world's acknowledged epi-centre of Islamist terror.

http://m.newindianexpress.com/opinion/3 ... ve-in-iraq

Counter Terror Wave in Iraq

Posted on June 19, 2014
Anuradha M chenoy

A terrorist group called the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant (ISIS) has controlled vast swathes of land in Iraq and the major cities of Tikrit and Mosul are in their hands. The Sunni militant group is more radical, authoritarian and religious fundamentalist than al-Qaeda. Though it is described as a breakaway faction of the al-Qaeda, it can merge with it anytime. It is a spillover from the neighbouring conflicts in Syria. The ISIS is one of the groups opposing the Assad regime in Syria. It is well equipped with the latest lethal weaponry, stolen from captured military bases.

The ISIS has ambitions to capture power in the region. The international community is worried because of the humanitarian crises, rise in oil prices, growing fundamentalism and terrorism. To address this new conflict its root cause will have to be tackled. The traditional geopolitical rivalries will have to retreat or terrorism will raise its ugly head again.

Iraqi prime minister Nouri Al-Maliki, who leads a weak coalition, a corrupt government and polarised country, could not get the required quorum to declare emergency to confront the terrorists. The US-trained Iraqi Army is demoralised and beset with internal problems, but the Iraqi Kurds have been fighting back. As the ISIS advanced, this army melted away.

Robert Fisk wrote in The Independent (UK, June 14) that the Sunni militia is funded and supported by the Saudi Wahhabis and Kuwaiti oligarchs. The Saudis had a policy of releasing imprisoned hard-core al-Qaeda elements to fight alongside such groups. The US supports the Saudi regime and has turned a blind eye to its games.

Iraq thus is a repeat of the Syria story, except that in Iraq the US opposes the ISIS rebels, but supports rebels in coalition with the ISIS in Syria. This duality was officially expressed by US national security adviser Susan Rice, who said on CNN on 7 June that Washington was providing lethal and non-lethal support to the Syrian rebels. The Iraq-US Strategic Forces Agreement allows for US intervention. But the US will not oblige until Iraq accepts conditions of internal inclusive politics and external distance from Iran. For the US, regime change in Iran and Syria appears more important than saving Iraq from terrorism.

Iraq’s terrible internal governance records are also reasons for its collapse. The Maliki regime discriminated against and excluded the Sunnis since 2003. For example, seven lakh Sunni soldiers were dismissed from the Iraqi army, and others removed from government service after the Americans left. Promotions in the army are allegedly sold. Such corruption, politicisation and exclusion on the basis of religion have destroyed institutions. Iraq is polarised with sectarian conflicts and hundreds of thousands have lost their lives to terror and sectarian attacks.

In response to the current takeover by the ISIS, Iranian president Hassan Rouhani has promised assistance and has sent 2,000 advance troops for this crucial fight against terrorism. The Iranian revolutionary guards’ head is in Baghdad. The much revered Ayatollah Sistani has given a call to arms. The ISIS is at loggerheads with the Hezbollah, allegedly run by Iran. Iran will be crucial in resolving this conflict.

Terrorism in Iraq is a post-Saddam, post-US intervention phenomenon. Iraq has 30,000 American troops and yet terrorist attacks have increased. According to a RAND report, between 2011 and 2013 alone, jihadist groups grew by 58 per cent, their fighters doubled and their attacks tripled. Terror groups are expanding their base in Syria, Iraq, Pakistan and Yemen.

It is obvious that the American war on terror has failed because it was a war to expand US interests in West Asia. Why then did the US leave Afghanistan and attack Iraq in 2003, on the pretext of nuclear weapons that were never found? Similarly, the NATO overthrew the Gaddafi regime in Libya in 2011 on grounds of humanitarian intervention and then departed. Libya today has escalating violence, and another civil war is possible as sectarian politics is on the rise.

Clearly, countries where intervention took place were neither protected nor stabilised or liberated. Moreover, terrorist groups are hurting Americans and others and know that the US has little staying power. Demonising Islam and using drone warfare has not controlled the terrorists. The US is spending $500 billion for its base budget. Even if one fifth of that went into peace, accountable governance and human security in regions where there is fear of terrorism, it might be a better way to build international security.

In the current scenario, even though the Iranian and US interests have been at loggerheads, this is a time where there is a small window of opportunity that they come together to save Iraq. If they allow competitive geopolitics to prevail, it will be at the cost of Iraqi people and international terrorism will grow.

This is the time to build on the 2013 Geneva deal reached between Iran, the West and Russia on Syria. Stabilising Syria is the key to peace in Iran as Russia, China and India have argued. The recent elections in Syria showed that Assad still has support from the Alawites, the Shias, Christians, secularists, and some Sunnis. The Western slogan that Assad must go should stop. The region needs stability, inclusive politics, basic rights, as opposed to regime change where one set of dictators is taken over by another or by militias and people suffer even more. The dream that US trained “moderate” Islamists will fight both the regime in Syria and the Islamist militia including the ISIS is warped and unreal.

The late Christopher Hitchens called the al-Qaeda “partly a corrupt multinational corporation, partly a crime family, partly a surrogate for the Saudi oligarchy and the Pakistani secret police, partly a sectarian religious cult, and partly a fascist organisation”. It is this body and its affiliates that need to be defeated by a Shia-Sunni alliance, regional Arab alliances. India should support any proposal that advocates this.

The writer is professor at the School of International Studies, Jawaharlal Nehru University.
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by UlanBatori »

The writer is professor at the School of International Studies, Jawaharlal Nehru University.
Any relation of that great Patriot Kamal Nath Chenoy, I wonder? The one who went and testified before the US Congress against his own country? I bet he would support the Al Qaeda against India.
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by chanakyaa »

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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by symontk »

Actually, it is the first time, I am hearing about the Iraqi atrocities against Indians. For all the feedbacks I had heard in the past was with Jordanian forces and their refugee camps. Even the Malayalam vernacular newspapers (who totally bought US line) didnt report this

But you never know, in those circumstances anything would have happened. The reason why Jordanian forces were unhappy was due to the Iraqi support to Palestinians and India's support to Iraq

There were few nurses (around 26 of them) from Kerala who were stuck up in Kuwait. They were treated well by Iraqi forces. Due to that their hospitals also got bombed by USAF. Later Kuwaiti forces were also treated there after the Kuwait city recapture by US led MNF

One of my Tamil friend's family moved Kuwait to Cypress after the invasion
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by Murugan »

ISIS May Skip Baghdad and Instead Build a New State: 'Syriaq'

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/paul-sale ... _hp_ref=tw
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by Murugan »

This @wikibaghdady has more to reveal about ISIS/Iraq/Syria

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2 ... itter.html
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by Murugan »

symontk
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by symontk »

Murugan wrote:ISIS May Skip Baghdad and Instead Build a New State: 'Syriaq'

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/paul-sale ... _hp_ref=tw
They need to take a break. Its not good to go with a direct confrontation with both US and Iran at this stage. Moreover target is Syria and maybe later Jordan
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by Murugan »

Suresh Reddy is the man : Crisis Manager in Iraq

http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/s ... elatedNews
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by Murugan »

Jenan Moussa ‏@jenanmoussa 8h
RT @SkyNewsBreak: U.S. military says it has started flying manned and unmanned surveillance aircraft over #Iraq @akhbar
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by SSridhar »

NightWatch for the night of June 18, 2014
Iran: President Rouhani said today that Iran will defend Shi'ite Muslim holy sites in neighboring Iraq against "killers and terrorists."

Speaking on live television, Rouhani said many people had signed up to go to Iraq to defend the sites and "put the terrorists in their place". He said that veteran fighters from Iraq's Sunni, Shi'ite and Kurdish communities were also "ready for sacrifice" against these militant forces.

"Regarding the holy Shia shrines in Karbala, Najaf, Khadhimiya and Samarra, we announce to the killers and terrorists that the big Iranian nation will not hesitate to protect holy shrines," he said, speaking to a crowd on a visit to western Lorestan province.

"These terrorist groups, and those that fund them, both in the region and in the international arena, are nothing, and hopefully they will be put in their place."

Comment: This is the most explicit statement of the threshold for intervention that any Iranian official has made. Neither the Defense of Baghdad nor the survival of the al-Maliki government were mentioned.

Saudi Arabian reaction. Foreign Minister Prince Saud al-Faisal said that outside powers should not intervene in Iraq.

Speaking at a gathering of Arab and Muslim leaders in Jeddah, Prince Saud urged Iraq to meet the "legitimate demands of the people and to achieve national reconciliation without foreign interference or outside agendas".

"This grave situation that is storming Iraq carries with it the signs of civil war whose implications for the region we cannot fathom," he said.

Comment: Analysts have interpreted Saud's statement as a warning to Iran and possibly to the US. The Iranian and Saudi statements showcase the existential struggle between the two branches of Islam. In that struggle Iran and Saudi Arabia itself are proxies.

Iraq: Situation update. A spokesman for the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant (ISIL) claimed that its fighters had captured the large refinery complex at Baiji. At a press conference, an Iraqi general disputed the ISIL claim and said 40 terrorists were killed at Baiji today.

At Tal Afar, the general said that Iraqi forces continue to hold most of the town. Elsewhere low level fighting continues.

Comment: Small skirmishes continue to be reported, but details are unclear. News services reported no more towns had been captured or recaptured.

Although news reporting is limited, it conveys a few insights about the fighting. There are no clear battle lines, as in a conventional war. Success is measured in terms of neighborhoods cleared by soldiers on the ground, as in Syria. The ISIL fighters are mobile and seldom present a center of mass for an air strike. Casualties tend to be few, even when an Iraqi gunship shoots up an ISIL convoy.

Special comment: Anbar tribal chief Sheikh Ali Hatim Al-Suleimani gave an interview that Asharq Al-Awsat published today. It might be the same interview already reported, but this version contained a few more details. Sheikh Ali Hatim leads the Dulaym tribe, one of the largest in Iraq.

He said, "It is the tribal rebels who are in control of the situation in Mosul. It is not reasonable to say that a group like ISIS (ISIL), which has a small number of men and vehicles, could be in control of a large city like Mosul. Therefore, it is clear that this is a tribal revolution, but the government is trying to force us all to wear the robe of the terrorists and ISIS."

He also said that special "military committees" have been formed to "organize" the revolution. "These committees are located in the provinces of Anbar, Baghdad, Nineveh, Salah Al-Din and Diyala. They are under the joint command of tribal leaders and former army leadership."

The mention of the former army leadership is significant because of the stature of the Sheikh which gives weight to reports from several other analysts that the Ba'athists are back, under the cover of ISIL Most of these reports have been ignored in mainstream news accounts.

One commentator who analyzed ISIL's Twitter feeds reported that senior ISIL leaders know the organization is a front for a coalition of Sunni tribes and the Ba'athists, including the daughter of Saddam Hussein, behind a veneer of extremists. She resides in Jordan.

Another set of reports today focused on why the Iraqi Army broke and ran. Interviews with multiple soldiers who escaped from the north indicate the troops received orders from their immediate superiors to abandon their bases; to leave their equipment behind and to go home.

These accounts might be self-serving justifications for desertion in the face of the enemy. On the other hand, if they are accurate, what took place in Mosul was not panic, but betrayal. What makes this hypothesis somewhat plausible is information from Tal Afar, where a US-trained senior officer remains with his troops, that ISIL reportedly has been unable to hold the city.

The new information supports a hypothesis that the ISIL operation is a key part of a Sunni Arab power grab to take back Baghdad or to secede. The Kurds appear to be in on the plot, at least the secession part.
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by Malayappan »

The Power of Sacred Geography in Iraq

Something that is known to the people in the forum, but could be a useful reference piece
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by Malayappan »

Iraq crisis hits Turkish economy

From that article -
“Borders that were drawn superficially 60 years ago will be re-demarcated. Parts of the region will find their right places. There is so much diversity, with Arabs, Sunnis, Shiites, Turkmen and Kurds. Then there are plenty of radical groups. They all want to have a say. The region is so sick that all germs freely attack it.” -Minister of Economy Nihat Zeybekci
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by TSJones »

Part of the price to be paid:

Maliki must go.

http://www.cnn.com/2014/06/19/politics/ ... ?hpt=hp_t1
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by UlanBatori »

If Eyerak is majority Sunni, and the guvrmand came after Democratic Election approved by Yoo Ess, how is it that Maliki and his gang are Shia and have so much power? Only answer can be that he is an American puppet. I am confused. Did he refuse to grant US forces immunity in Iraq and hence fall out of favor? In Vietnam that would have called for a simple coup with a shot to the head (Diem), or a squad breaking into the Cabinet conference room with Sten guns (Burma, Ong San). Why go to all this hassle instead? I guess the CIA is like Ulysses per Alfredi Bin Tennisi:
Tho' much is taken, little abides; and tho'
We are not now that strength which in old days
Moved Cuba and Iran and Nicaragua, that which we are, we are;
One equal temper of herrowic (hamburgers),
Made weak by time and fate and budget, but strong on paper
To strive, to seek, to mess up, and not to think.
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by rsingh »

Murugan wrote:40 Indians are 'Safe'

http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/4 ... epage=true
If these were Chinese workers.....Bandars from SA and Qatar would have got them out within hours.
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by vivek.rao »

The rise of ISIS: Do the answers lie in Islam?
A new spectre is haunting the world - the spectre of yet another terrorist outfit - the Islamic State of Iraq and Syria (ISIS) - that has suddenly fought its way to capture huge swathes of territory in West Asia. It promises to be a nastier version of al Qaeda, and now accuses the old al Qaeda of forgetting its initial ideals.
Islam is not just a religion; it is also a system of accumulating and consolidating political power. Its ideology is perfectly suited for these goals.
This is what explains how a rag-tag bunch of thugs and extortionists morphed into an all-conquering army and now holds several towns and large territories in Iraq and Syria. Soon ISIS could be creating a caliphate - a dream aborted in Afghanistan after the American invasion pushed Mullah Omar out. If ISIS succeeds, it will become a new power centre for political Islam. But it won’t be the only one, for we still have the Shia power centre in Teheran, and several others elsewhere.

Islam is unique not for its great messages of brotherhood and justice, which are certainly inspiring, but in how it formally allows spiritual and temporal power to reside together. They reinforce one another.
Was this unique, was this different from the two earlier Abrahamic religions – Judaism and Christianity? Both of Islam’s predecessor faiths emphasised one god and opposed idolatry. The progress of the three religions was, however, different. Judaism resisted change and stuck to its belief that Jews were a chosen people. Much like Hinduism, it sought no conversions of other people to Judaism and ultimately posed no threat to temporal powers. But Christianity, once it grew out of its initial moorings in a Jewish reform movement that also resisted the Roman occupation of Palestine, became a proselytising faith that could have threatened kingly power. This is why Christianity had a difficult existence in its initial phases, till Constantine embraced it politically and made it a part of his power base. After that, church and state were often joint stakeholders in power, or shared an uneasy relationship, till the European enlightenment forced the two apart.

Islam never saw any of these pressures and tussles. From the start, the Prophet ensured the merger of state and god – and there has been no reformation, renaissance or enlightenment to force a change.
All consolidation of power needs an ideology that's larger than self-interest, and the Prophet created that combination in Islam where its followers think nothing of sacrificing themselves for achieving this ideal. This is why less than 100 years after his death, the warriors of Islam had reached all over Asia, Africa and Europe.

The power and weakness of Islam lies precisely in this mixing up of spiritual and temporal power. It means anybody can use the appeal of religion to seek power, and anyone with power can claim Islam as his own. This means ambitious warmongers can and will threaten not only other rival states, but even states that are formally Islamic. Genghis Khan ravaged many Muslim states during his campaigns, but his progeny embraced Islam. Taimur called himself the Sword of Islam. Anyone seeking power can merely say that he is the guardian of Islam, or his is the right version of Islam, and go for it. Thus Islamists after often a big threat to other Islamists. An Osama bin Laden was as much a threat to the Saudi monarchs as to America.

This is what explains the huge, bloodly schisms of Islam - Shia-Sunni, Sunni-Ahmaddiyas, etc. Every time you have managed to finish off an al-Qaeda, an ISIS will rise. When ISIS fails - as it surely will, for no terror can hold unnatural countries together - another "truer" version of Islam will rise. Pakistan is failing precisely because it made Islam its ruling ideology. The corollary to this ideology is: which Islam? This can only lead to more bloodshed.
The world cannot do anything about this, and especially by demonising Islam - as the west and we in India sometimes tend to do. This is an issue internal to Islam and will be addressed only when enough Muslims begin to see the dangers to themselves and their faith from this. Let's remember, Christianity went through the same process and needed the reformation and enlightenment to separate church from state.

Islam will become a normal religion when two things happen: when enough Muslims see the damage they are doing to themselves and call for change, and when the secular process of women getting educated, empowered and emancipated expands. The antidote to a hyper masculine religion is feminine power
.
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by UlanBatori »

OK, What is GOI doing?
Nowhere is the sense of fear more palpable than at Baghdad International Airport, where hundreds and hundreds of people wait in long security and check-in lines for one of the few, precious seats available on flights out of Iraq.

After Iraq's second-largest city, Mosul fell last week to the militants -- barely opposed by Iraqi security forces, who abandoned their weapons as they fled -- the southward advance of the Islamic State in Iraq and Syria, or ISIS, has been relentless.

Many at the airport are seeking safety in Iraq's Kurdish-controlled north, particularly Irbil, or in the southern port city of Basra. Others are trying to get out of the country altogether.

To accommodate the exodus, airlines have begun adding flights and, in some cases, much larger planes. Still, there are few seats available as most flights, according to travel agencies, are sold out weeks in advance.

Where once there was one Iraqi Airways flight a day to the northern city of Irbil, there are now three.

On Thursday, a Royal Jordanian flight flew from Amman to Baghdad nearly empty. But it is oversold for its return, a flight attendant said.

The fighters are now within 40 miles of the capital, where at least three people were killed and 15 injured Thursday when a car bomb and two roadside bombs exploded in three separate areas, police officials there told CNN.

A few miles outside of the Baghdad airport, dozens of men waited in lines in the sweltering sun to answer Prime Minister Nuri al-Maliki's call to join the military's fight against the Sunni extremists.

The Prime Minister, whose Shia-dominated government is accused of fostering sectarian tensions by marginalizing Iraq's Sunni and Kurd minorities, is facing growing calls from some quarters to stand down.

As the United States weighs its options, the Pentagon has presented President Barack Obama with a plan to send up to 100 special operations advisers to Iraq to work along with that country's military, several U.S. officials told CNN on Thursday.

Obama has not yet signed off on the plan, the officials said.

Battle for Baiji oil refinery

Meanwhile, Iraqi security forces and Islamist militants clashed again Thursday as they battled for control of the nation's main oil refinery.

Conflicting reports have emerged as to who has the upper hand.

In a phone interview on state-run al-Iraqiya TV on Thursday, Col. Ali Al Qureshi, the commander of troops responsible for protecting the refinery in Baiji, some 140 miles north of Baghdad, said Iraqi armed forces were in full control.

He said the militants had suffered dozens of casualties in the course of multiple attacks but had failed to take the refinery complex.

But police officials in Samarra and Baghdad said ISIS fighters control 60% of the oil refinery.

Dozens of vehicles full of militants launched a fresh assault on the sprawling refinery complex around 4 a.m. local time Thursday, the police officials said. Iraqi security forces are still trying to expel them and regain the control.

Al-Iraqiya television reported that 40 "ISIS terrorists" were killed during the clashes.

The Baiji refinery is a key strategic resource because it refines much of the fuel needed for internal consumption. There are already long lines at many gas stations across the country. Iraq is also a major exporter of fuel from oil fields in the country's south.

As the U.N. World Food Programme highlighted the plight of a half-million Iraqis forced from their homes by days of fighting, the European Union announced it would give an additional 5 million euros ($6.8 million) in assistance to Iraq, taking the total to 12 million euros this year.

"This fresh wave of violence has terrible consequences for vulnerable children, women and men," said EU official Kristalina Georgieva.

Al-Maliki struck a defiant tone Wednesday in a televised weekly address, saying Iraqi forces were on the "on the rebound" after their initial shock in the face of the militants' lightning advance.
..
The lightning-fast advance by ISIS has seen large portions of northern Iraq fall under its control. ISIS wants to establish a caliphate, or Islamic state, that would stretch from Iraq into northern Syria.
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by ramana »

TSJones wrote:Part of the price to be paid:

Maliki must go.

http://www.cnn.com/2014/06/19/politics/ ... ?hpt=hp_t1

This is typical of moronic comments from US. "Maliki must go. Karzai must go." All along they undermine the leader and encourage the terrorists.

And usually its some petty kowtowing that was not done to some minor US official.


Soon awaiting Modi must go from US experts.
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by ramana »

UlanBatori wrote:If Eyerak is majority Sunni, and the guvrmand came after Democratic Election approved by Yoo Ess, how is it that Maliki and his gang are Shia and have so much power? Only answer can be that he is an American puppet. I am confused. Did he refuse to grant US forces immunity in Iraq and hence fall out of favor? In Vietnam that would have called for a simple coup with a shot to the head (Diem), or a squad breaking into the Cabinet conference room with Sten guns (Burma, Ong San). Why go to all this hassle instead? I guess the CIA is like Ulysses per Alfredi Bin Tennisi:
Tho' much is taken, little abides; and tho'
We are not now that strength which in old days
Moved Cuba and Iran and Nicaragua, that which we are, we are;
One equal temper of herrowic (hamburgers),
Made weak by time and fate and budget, but strong on paper
To strive, to seek, to mess up, and not to think.

Ub! UB, Need to study Islam history.

Ali had shifted the political center out of Mecca to Kerbala which is in Iraq. All the Shia holy sites:Kerbala, Najaf etc are in Iraq. Iraq is a Shia state with Sunni majority pockets eg Anbar province etc.

Anbar is where the Abbasid reaction came from in 700A.D.
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by Y. Kanan »

TSJones wrote:Part of the price to be paid:

Maliki must go.

http://www.cnn.com/2014/06/19/politics/ ... ?hpt=hp_t1
I've got an idea, how about Maliki tells you guys to go f*ck yourselves and the Iranian army can come in and help eradicate the ISIS vermin that your Saudi friends created in the first place. While they're at it, how about the Iraqis cancel any planned US arms purchases and buy from the Russians instead. I'm sure Moscow would be happy for the business.

The Iraqis are much better off closely allied to Iran, Russia and Syria. The US is nothing but an albatross hanging around their neck.

Dump the US and the gloves can come off, freeing Iraqi security forces to clean house with Iranian assistance. As things stand now, Maliki has to fight with one hand tied behind his back, lest he offend Washington by accepting too much Iranian help.
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by UlanBatori »

Ah! So!
DupleeCity wants to restore Minority Rule in Eyerak. AKA "Baathist" AKA Saddam. So why not welcome and elect Abdul bin Kabul al Baghdadi? He has all the requirements to be a US-propped dictator, hain? Murdering prisoners, rape, torture and mutilation of minorities, a willing chequebook to buy weapons, a penchant for oil refineries..

To quote SD, circa 1999 December re: Musharraf:
He may be a bast*rd, but he's OUR bast*rd
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