Religion Thread 3

[SaiK]

googling on the science-hinduism trail..

H2O

Water can thereby be divided into Prana-vayu and Udana-vayu. Vayu means "air." Thus the Ancient Hindus correctly analyzed water as the mixture of two gases. Prana is the life principle (so must correspond to oxygen, which is essential to life) and Udana means "upward breathing" (so must correspond to hydrogen, which is the lightest element).

..

and another find...

Christna-Avatar: (His mother is the Virgin Devaki or Devanaguy). Fathered by God, by the manifested Vishnu Deity or by Adam Kadmon.

i mean, if the western minds can joke like this.. why not Christna was not true for the land of jesus folks!?

PS:
sounds like kabalists..(OT)
http://www.newkabbalah.com/adam.html

[JE Menon]

>>I can show you a latest one in 18/19th century resurrection stories of shirdi sai baba!~. now who is better Christ or Shirdi ji?

Exactly my point. Neither. Resurrection of even a mosquito, in the sense of coming back to life after being confirmed dead, is not a fact verifiable by the scientific method. But one can believe what one wants, as belief does not have to be based exclusively on reason or logic. Just don't go around saying that someone elses six armed or blue skinned god is less than the one who came back to life, or the one who ascended to heaven on a winged steed. Difficult to prove without facts, which is why all the antics of "miracle" mongering....

On the other hand, I am not unduly concerned about a threat to India from these Evanjihadis. On the contrary, times have changed. The very presence of India and millions of Indians overseas will have an impact, not to mention the fact that there are tens of thousands of Indians intimately encountering the West and vice versa. Eastern spiritual traditions are likely to have a major impact on what is now known as "the West" in the coming centuries - especially because of the onward march of science.

Not that the evanjihadis should not be challenged. They should be countered and made to look like the bloody fools they are - and that's not hard to do at all.

[Arun_S]

SaiK: very interesting. And at its other pages I found the site useful: In particular something that was an eye opener to see the common core beliefs of Indian & Jewish people. That is could be hardly glimpsed when reading the Old-Testament.

The Kabbalah and other Traditions

Many of the ideas and themes of the Lurianic Kabbalah are also present in systems of thought (Indian philosophy, Platonism, Gnosticism) that, according to many scholars, antedate the Kabbalah, and (at least in the case of Platonism and Gnosticism two) seem to have impacted upon the development of Jewish mysticism. The Kabbalah, however, is unique in its position in the history of western thought, acting as it were as a "switching station" in which the biblical tradition, oriental mysticism and western philosophy converge. In the Kabbalah of Isaac Luria these traditions combine with Luria's profound spiritual insight and intense mythical imagination to produce a comprehensive philosophical and psychological vision of the nature of God and humankind that was only imperfectly represented in the prior traditions.[/quote]


http://www.newkabbalah.com/Indian.html]

Indian Philosophy

In their notion of Ein-Sof the Kabbalists developed a concept of an infinite Godhead which in many ways parallels ancient Indian ideas. Both the Kabbalist's Ein-Sof and the Indian Brahman refer to an underlying reality that is the substance and energy of all life and mind. Like Ein-Sof, the principle called Brahman (or in its creative mode: Atman), is in effect, beyond any God who can be addressed, worshipped, or described. It is beyond all qualities and distinctions: it is infinite, boundless, pure and totally real, and like Ein-Sof it transcends all oppositions in coincidentia oppositorum. In the Indian (as in Kabbalistic) cosmology, this infinite spiritual principle is identified with "nothingness," a "no-thingness" which mystically coincides with the "life energy" (prana) of the cosmos. Each of the Hindu gods and goddesses, are understood, to be just another aspect or manifestation of this single unitary principle in Brahman, much as, for the Kabbalists the Sefirot and Partzufim are understood as aspects of Ein-Sof.

Kabbalah, also shares with Indian thought the notion of a Primordial Man who embodies the very essence of the created universe. The divine, either Ein-Sof or Brahman, is according to these traditions perfectly reflected in the human soul, and both the Kabbalah and Indian philosophy frequently reinterpret divine, cosmological, events in terms of stages in the development of human consciousness. Both the Kabbalistic and Indian traditions hold that the religious adherent must integrate into his or her psyche an aspect of himself (Atman in Indian thought, the Tzelem or divine Spark in the Kabbalah) that normally remains hidden. The two traditions even share specific meditational techniques designed to support this integration.

Both mystical traditions share in the idea that the world as it is experienced by man is a function of divine ignorance and forgetfulness, what is described in the Kabbalah as God's self-concealment in Tzimtzum. Like the Kabbalah, several schools within the Hindu-Brahman tradition hold the world to be an illusion created through a limitation in the infinite "All." The non-dualistic Vedanta, for example, particularly as it is expressed by its leading advocate, Sankara (c.788-820) views the world as a total illusion. The world's existence, according to this tradition, is completely a function of divine forgetfulness and ignorance. A similar acosmic view is evident in the Chabad Hasidic interpretation of the Lurianic theosophy.

The concept of Maya in Indian philosophy refers to the purely phenomenal, insubstantial character of the everyday world; a world which results from a process through which Brahman conceals itself from itself. This concealment results in both matter and mind, each of which are brought into existence by Atman's ignorance or self-forgetfulness. Such ideas, of course, are very similar to Luria's conception of the phenomenal world as an illusion produced by Tzimtzum, the concealment and contraction of the light of the Infinite God (Or Ein-Sof). In the final analysis, for both traditions the "illusion" of a world is predicated on the ignorance of humanity. It is such ignorance, which (both in the Kabbalah and the philosophies of India) is the root, cause and substance of both space and time, and it is the overcoming of this ignorance, which, according to both traditions, is one of the great tasks of mankind.

The Jaina doctrine of Karma, which gives expression to the view that one's inner, Godly self is obscured by layers of darkness that have their origin in a man's negative actions, finds a ready parallel and compliment in the Lurianic symbol of Kellipot (Husks) (See Kellipot.)

The parallels between Kabbalistic and Indian thought are discussed in Kabbalistic Metaphors, Chapters 2 and 3, pp. 78-80 and 86-112.

The Lurianic Kabbalah is treated in detail in Sanford Drob's Symbols of the Kabbalah and Kabbalistic Metaphors .

Sholom.

[SaiK]

The Rig Veda asserted that gravitation held the universe together 24 centuries before the apple fell on Newton's head.

The Vedic civilisation subscribed to the idea of a spherical earth at a time when everyone else, even the Greeks, assumed the earth was flat.

By the Fifth Century A.D. Indians had calculated that the age of the earth was 4.3 billion years; as late as the 19th Century, English scientists believed the earth was a hundred million years old, and it is only in the late 20th Century that Western scientists have come to estimate the earth to be about 4.6 billion years old.

India invented modern numerals (known to the world as "Arabic" numerals because the West got them from the Arabs, who learned them from us!).

shunyata

The concept of infinite sets of rational numbers was understood by Jain thinkers in the Sixth Century B.C.

"Bakhshali manuscript", 70 leaves of bark dating back to the early centuries of the Christian era, reveals fractions, simultaneous equations, quadratic equations, geometric progressions and even calculations of profit and loss, with interest.

Indian mathematicians invented negative numbers

The Sulba Sutras, composed between 800 and 500 B.C., demonstrate that India had Pythagoras' theorem before the great Greek was born, and a way of getting the square root of 2 correct to five decimal places.

The Kerala mathematician Nilakantha wrote sophisticated explanations of the irrationality of "pi" before the West had heard of the concept.

The Vedanga Jyotisha, written around 500 B.C., declares: "Like the crest of a peacock, like the gem on the head of a snake, so is mathematics at the head of all knowledge."

..to the Harappan civilisation, for evidence of a highly sophisticated system of weights and measures in use around 3000 B.C.

The Harappans also invented kiln-fired bricks, less permeable to rain and floodwater than the mud bricks used by other civilisations of the time... the Harappan bricks were amazingly consistent: their length, width and thickness were invariably in the ratio of 4:2:1.

The greatest impact was on Islamic culture, which borrowed heavily from Indian numerals, trigonometry and analemma.

Indian numbers probably arrived in the Arab world in 773 A.D. with the diplomatic mission sent by the Hindu ruler of Sind to the court of the Caliph al-Mansur. This gave rise to the famous arithmetical text of al-Khwarizmi, written around 820 A.D., which contains a detailed exposition of Indian mathematics, in particular the usefulness of the zero. With Islamic civilisation's rise and spread, knowledge of Indian mathematics reached as far afield as Central Asia, North Africa and Spain. "In serving as a conduit for incoming ideas and a catalyst for influencing others"

[Sadler]

SaiK: very interesting. And at its other pages I found the site useful: In particular something that was an eye opener to see the common core beliefs of Indian & Jewish people. That is could be hardly glimpsed when reading the Old-Testament.

Now, this could be a complete freakin coincidence. But, i have always been struck by the etymology of Abraham and Brahma.

Not only that, jews have a ritual called "sitting shiva" to mourn loved ones.
http://www.ehow.com/how_12301_prepare-s ... shiva.html

And the hindu connotation of Shiva is the "destroyer" with connotations of death.

Like i said, could be a freakin coincidence. But, a pretty amazing one.

[Sadler]

The Rig Veda asserted that gravitation held the universe together 24 centuries before the apple fell on Newton's head.

Could you give me a reference for the above quotes? I have been wanting to tear a particular moslem on IDF a new one for having claimed that it was moslem named al-jibber-jabber invented al-jebra!! Thanks.

[Sadler]

Rakesh: You've raised many interesting points. I'll try to get back with you later this week.

If i spend another moment on BRF in the next 72 hrs and SHQ catches me, my fate will be worse than musharraf's musharraf when DICK armitage comes a-visitin 'Slumbad.

[Arun_S]

One has to read the book "India" by Al-Baruni (who came to India with Mohammad Ghazni) written almost exactly 1000 year ago (When Kashmir and Kasi were the 2 major pillars of "Sanatan Dharm" in Bharat) to get some context of what India was those days and even from the high horse of Islam Al-Baruni looks like a pygmy in light of Real Knowledge we know now. And the modern Mussalman and Wahabi in particular are pygmies of even Al-Baruni in terms of observation, objectivity, analysis and rationalization.

[mandrake]

sadler bro this might interest you,

A project on Indian mathematics in scotland university,

http://www-groups.dcs.st-and.ac.uk/~his ... dians.html]

This isnt everything but a part of Indian mathematics i guess?

Vedic maths include a lot more than these, I just cannot imagine the boks that were burnt in Taxila/ Nalanda or ancient Persian books how much information are lost...

I met with a guy in train hes tibetian and he teaches Buddhism nand history in Santiniketan university in west bengal which was founded by rabindranath tagore, it is a internationally recognised university for cultural programmes.I might have his email id.

in the train he told me Nalanda was burning for 7 days... dont know if it is true or not.

[shyamd]

SaiK: Amazing info. Any links for those quotes?

[Vick]

A few quick questions:

If a Hindu doesn't believe in heaven or hell, why does it offend if a Christian thinks that Hindus will go to hell?

Should a Christian be equally offended that Hindus think that we all will be reincarnated nearly ad infinitum?

What is wrong with Christians talking about what they believe in with non-Christians? I don't understand how that is a threat to Indian national security.

A small primer on my background:
I was born to Hindu and Catholic parents and in my early 20s became a "born again" Christian. I am ready to be pelted... with questions and will try to answer as best as I can.

[Dharmavir]

What is wrong with Christians talking about what they believe in with non-Christians? I don't understand how that is a threat to Indian national security.

I don't care about what you believe, by talking do you mean talking by putting a gun to people's heads as they are doing in the North East?

Do you mean the way they talked during the Goan Inquisition?

Or the way they talked when they destroyed Hindu mandirs in Pondicherry?

We have people openly claiming "Nagaland for Christ" but we are supposed to believe that it has no implications on Indian national security, next Muslims will be claiming parts as Mughalistan (Samar Abbas already does), everyone can get a piece of India except the Hindus of course who are bent upon destroying the "secular fabric" (or should it be called sickular?) of India.

[Vick]

What is wrong with Christians talking about what they believe in with non-Christians? I don't understand how that is a threat to Indian national security.

I don't care about what you believe, by talking do you mean talking by putting a gun to people's heads as they are doing in the North East?

Do you mean the way they talked during the Goan Inquisition?

Or the way they talked when they destroyed Hindu mandirs in Pondicherry?

By talking, I mean talking as in what friends, acquaintences, neighbors, people one meets on the trains do.

Let's not drag out atrocities committed by one group of religionists over another as no one group has a monopoly on atrocities.

The question is, if I go to India and I engage in a conversation with someone about Christ, why is that wrong?

[Arun_S]

A few quick questions:

If a Hindu doesn't believe in heaven or hell, why does it offend if a Christian thinks that Hindus will go to hell?

Where did that IF come from? What else is "Swarg" and "Nark" in Hindi and Sanskrit? Pls dont dare create your version of Hindu religion for Hindus. If you don't know, ask.

Swarg and Narak are 2 of the 7 planes of manifested world.

[Dharmavir]

Let's not drag out atrocities committed by one group of religionists over another as no one group has a monopoly on atrocities.

Well then show me the atrocities done by the Hindus, Buddhists, Jews, Parsis and others on other religions.

I don't believe in all this equal equal game, it is clear that both Islam and Christianity have been responsible for the greatest atrocities in this world, other religions may not be angels but they have a far better track record to show.

The question is, if I go to India and I engage in a conversation with someone about Christ, why is that wrong?

Not if the other person doesn't want to hear it and you persist.

If some missionary will not listen when i tell him politely that I do not want to hear about Jesus and he continues knocking on the door he will get his jaw broken.

[Vick]

Where did that IF come from? What else is "Swarg" and "Nark" in Hindi and Sanskrit? Pls dont dare create your version of Hindu religion. If you dont know ask.

Swarg and Narak are 2 of the 7 planes of manifested world.

No offense meant. It was one of those unknown unknowns to me. The basic question should be reworded to: Why should Hindus be offended that Christians believe that Hindus will go to hell?

[Vick]

Pls dont dare create your version of Hindu religion for Hindus. If you don't know, ask.

Fair enough but a quick sidebar if you'll indulge. What about the people who took it upon themselves to deify Amitabh Bachchan and built a shrine to him and offer prayers and offerings? I know about this because it happened in WB while I was visiting. Are they not also changing the Hindu religion?

[Vick]

I don't believe in all this equal equal game, it is clear that both Islam and Christianity have been responsible for the greatest atrocities in this world, other religions may not be angels but they have a far better track record to show.

You're right, many atrocities have been committed by people carrying the cross as their banner.

Not if the other person doesn't want to hear it and you persist.

That's that individual's perogative to tell me, not yours. Unless you're that individual, in which case try to go for a left jab; I fall for it a lot.

[Aditya_V]

I don't think we take offense to CHristians beliving us going to Hell. What is more offence is how Hindu scriptures are considered mythology, while Christian scriptures are called 'holy'. The best example is that the Rig Veda was invented 2500 years ago- when there is no literary or scientific proof of that, the aryan invasion- again no evidence of that etc..

I mean nobody tries to explain History as the way Hindu scriptures describe, the 14 different levels of planets, the various hells, the difference in the lifeplans of Devas compared to Humans, what a Brahma's day means , the cycles of time, treta yuga, Dvapara yuga , Kali yuga etc ..

Why Vedas had to written due to the fact in Kali Yuga human memory especially detoriates.... I can go on and on.

Apart from that I think what Hindus worry about the systematic Genocide through Hindus have been wiped out in Afganistan and Pakistan over the last 1000 years, especially traumatic is how the Hindus were wiped out in pakistan in 1947. Basically Hindus are virtually found only in India and even here people are trying to wipe us out.

[rgsrini]

Sadler,
Abraham and Sara = Brahma and Saraswati.

[Vick]

What is more offence is how Hindu scriptures are considered mythology, while Christian scriptures are called 'holy'.

What is the difference?

[Prem]

I don't believe in all this equal equal game, it is clear that both Islam and Christianity have been responsible for the greatest atrocities in this world, other religions may not be angels but they have a far better track record to show.

You're right, many atrocities have been committed by people carrying the cross as their banner.

Not if the other person doesn't want to hear it and you persist.

That's that individual's perogative to tell me, not yours. Unless you're that individual, in which case try to go for a left jab; I fall for it a lot.

Why do you think we need conversion ? Are we lacking in the knowledge of God?
Misionaries are in this soul harvesting game because of political patronage and money otherwise they wont be duping and hunting the poor people taking full advantage of their economic wants. The loyalties of missionaries do not lies with India but with foreign entities antagonistic to Indian interests.
Vick, why not try and do soul harvesting in this forum? This will be the real test of strength and supriority over Snatan Dharma.

[Vick]

Why do you think we need conversion ? Are we lacking in the knowledge of God?

I don't know. How will I find out if I don't ask and talk to people?

Misionaries are in this soul harvesting game because of political patronage and money otherwise they wont be duping and hunting the poor people taking full advantage of their economic wants. The loyalties of missionaries do not lies with India but with foreign entities antagonistic to Indian interests.
Vick, why not try and do soul harvesting in this forum? This will be the real test of strength and supriority over Snatan Dharma.

I don't have the power to harvest souls any more than another man. I can only do things that are in my power to do.

[rgsrini]

Sadler. Here is some more for you...


Is There A Connection Between Ancient Indian And Hebrew Language?

Gene D. Matlock finds compelling evidence for ancient Indian influence on a global scale.

[Arun_S]

The basic question should be reworded to: Why should Hindus be offended that Christians believe that Hindus will go to hell?

Because Hindu believe it is a persons deeds/action/karma alone that decide their fate, and also it teaches to be kind and respectful of others because there is God's soul in everybody. Thus this so called unmeritful belief of superiority of Christianity is evil and we ask who gave the Christians the bigoted right to superiority vis a vis Hinduism? If it is their Bible/church/pope/pastor, then I you instantly realize & know they are not TRUE but FALSE.

Also see Sadler's reply to almost similar question in previous pages.

[Vick]

The basic question should be reworded to: Why should Hindus be offended that Christians believe that Hindus will go to hell?

Who gave the Christians the bigoted right to superiority vis a vis Hinduism to ask such question?

I'm not sure what question you're talking about. My question? A specific question from Christians?

Christians believe what we believe and Hindus believe what Hindus believe. Why would Hindus feel insulted that Christians believe something and vice versa?

[Pulikeshi]

Er, chaps and chapis,

Are we discussing the threat of EJs or are we interested in the personal beliefs of forumites?
Typically the latter end in stalemate of you believe what you believe and I believe what I believe.

Also, this whole business of ancient Hinduism proved this and that is great, but is today's Hinduism addressing the needs of its consumers?
What are the things missing? How can they be addressed?

Seems like this endless discussion on caste, brilliant ancient-Hindus, etc. adds no value to this thread.
If no new light is shed on EJs, their appeal to consumers, their threat to incumbent Dharmics, and somewhere in there the purpose of Bharat herself.

JMT

[Arun_S]

Who gave the Christians the bigoted right to superiority vis a vis Hinduism to ask such question?

I'm not sure what question you're talking about. My question? A specific question from Christians?

Christians believe what we believe and Hindus believe what Hindus believe. Why would Hindus feel insulted that Christians believe something and vice versa?

I was editing my post while you replied. So here it is again:

Because Hindu believe it is a persons deeds/action/karma alone that decide their fate, and also it teaches to be kind and respectful of others because there is God's soul in everybody. Thus this so called unmeritful belief of superiority of Christianity is evil and we ask who gave the Christians the bigoted right to superiority vis a vis Hinduism? If it is their Bible/church/pope/pastor, then I you instantly realize & know they are not TRUE but FALSE.

[shiv]

Look like the coins issue is real
V. Sundaram's comments on the new coins

How come there are no questions in the Lok Sabha?

< massive rant follows - pliss excuse >


This sorry article makes me weep not because there is a cross on an Indian 2 rupee coin, but because the author - supposedly a retired IAS officer does not have the brains to do anything more than moan and wail and proceed to shoot himself and his credibility in the foot. I see that a lot of forum members do exactly the same thing but I will try and explain.

The minute people start wailing on this issue and blaming Sonia and Manmohan they are, by implication, suggesting that the political opponents of these people are somehow desirable and good, and people who support them (several hundred million Indians) are dhimmis and morons.

Unfortunately I have seen an attitude on this forum that the BJP may not be good - but its the only hope Hindus have. I haven't heard such crap for a long time.

You cannot fool Indians by saying that UPA is horse dung - which we should hate - but we should instead love cowdung BJP because it is holy Hindu dung.
That is exactly the impression I get.

Do Hindus have no thought or presence in India beyond "BJP", "RSS", Shiv Sena - which are the 3 favorites to oppose the UPA.

It is a tactical blunder to curse Sonia and Manmohan. That party has a lot of Hindus supporting it for some reason. It is better to find out what those reasons are rather than alleging that all those supporters are dhimmis and morons. It seems to me that Hindus of India can be classified this way into two groups.

a) Dhimmis and morons - UPA supporters
b) Morons alone - BJP supporters

First of all STOP lumping several hundred million Hindus into the trashcan by continuously cursing Manmohan and Sonia.

How come I find Indian Americans saying "I am a Republican but I voted Democrat last time because I am upset with Bush's policies"

How come forum members cannot understand that indian voters in India are no less intelligent and vote on issues rather than blind faith in some party or other. A cross on a two Rupee coin is a non issue except for onanism for the effete, un-thinking and un-original Hindu wealthy.

It seems to be a uniquely Hindu characteristic to blame someone else - ooops my bad, the Muslims do it too. We curse Muslims for claiming they are victims who cannot bring themselves up to change anything. How are Hindus - both on this forum and the author of that article any different?

How come I find no Hindus on this forum pointing out the all the crap that Hindu parties represent in India rather than continuously putting them on a pedestal by cursing Sonia, Manmohan, UPA etc? How come I find forum members falling for things that the Indian voter does not fall for.

See how easy it is to derail any issue if you cannot focus on the issue and decide to curse someone or the other and pass the buck like this IAS officer has done. Did he not have the sense to make a press statement, ask for information based on the RIA act, and start a public interest litigation. No. He only has the brains to blame Sonia and Manmohan. I am not going to praise that stupid, own-goal scoring article. He has revealed that Hindus can only wail about non issues and then proceed to pin the blame on non-Hindu Sonia. How laughably stupid.

Hindu parties in India have enough rot in them to make them effete and useless as alternatives to the Congress. It is high time concerned Hindus recognized that rather than spouting party propaganda. I say that as a Hindu living in India.

[Kakkaji]

Well said Pullikeshi!

[Vick]

Because Hindu believe it is a persons deeds/action/karma alone that decide their fate, and also it teaches to be kind and respectful of others because there is God's soul in everybody. Thus this so called unmeritful belief of superiority of Christianity is evil and we ask who gave the Christians the bigoted right to superiority vis a vis Hinduism? If it is their Bible/church/pope/pastor, then I you instantly realize & know they are not TRUE but FALSE.

Believers in Christ believe that no amount of good deeds will ever bridge the gap between God and man. As sinful beings, on our own, we are incapable of holiness. And being holy is the only way to be in God's presence.
The greatest commandment has two parts: Part 1 is to love God with heart, soul, and mind. Part 2 is to love others as one's self.

[Dharmavir]

Hindu parties in India have enough rot in them to make them effete and useless as alternatives to the Congress. It is high time concerned Hindus recognized that rather than spouting party propaganda. I say that as a Hindu living in India.

It is also high time people start coming up with evidences when they make authoritative pronouncements about other people, I still haven't seen evidence from you about Sita Ram Goel's support for the Tejo Mahalaya theory.

[shiv]

Further on the two Rupee coin issue.

I have seen and used that coin. It is not as pretty as older coins and looks like a cheap fake. But it is legal tender.

Two Rupees is worth a little more than trash in India and worth less than trash in US money. How clever of a Hindu to put the "Christian Cross" on a nearly worthless piece of metal. Even beggars are unsatisfied with Rs two but we spend a lot of effort saying Christ is invading India by putting his cross on a coin. Come off it folks. You can do a better psy-ops job that this laughable conspiracy theory.

The coin appears once in a while and apart from wondering whether it is a fake - you are grateful that you have a coin at all. How come Hindus never complained when those beautiful coins with all the symbols acceptable to Hindus were minted in US and UK "Christian mints" and money was paid to Christians to do that. This has happened regularly in the last 2-3 decades.

It just goes to show how stupid people can get on this Hindu issue.

If Hindus have any brains at all they should use available channels to find out why this coin looks so stupid apart from bearing this "despicable hated Christian Cross"

How come I cannot find one clever world beating Hindus asking the RBI mint for info using the right to information act?

if you don't like the design - oppose the design and the cross. No need to curse the entire goddam country and blame Sonia and Manmohan Singh.

You know what - I get the distinct impression that not only is Sonia hated - but the Sikh Manmohan Singh is not Hindu enough for us patriotic Hindus. That is what it looks like to me.

Do people have any sense at all when they speak and write?

I am requesting that idiotic links to this stupid coin issue should not be put up on this forum until someone has the sense to ask the RBI what is what. This is a non issue in India. if you can make it an issue in India - please do a sensible job and then post on this forum.

Thanks.

[shiv]

Hindu parties in India have enough rot in them to make them effete and useless as alternatives to the Congress. It is high time concerned Hindus recognized that rather than spouting party propaganda. I say that as a Hindu living in India.

It is also high time people start coming up with evidences when they make authoritative pronouncements about other people, I still haven't seen evidence from you about Sita Ram Goel's support for the Tejo Mahalaya theory.

What evidence do you want? For or against?

I see that you are upset with my statement and that makes me happy. It makes me happy because it shows how easy it is to wind up Hindus and people who claim to be Hindu supporters on non issues and get then fighting with other Hindus. That is, after all, how this great Hindu land was "lost"

Hindus cursing fellow Hindus and blaming it on them or on non Hindus when they get their asses whupped. There is no insight into why Hindus can appear so insufferably stupid when seen from the outside.

You want ME to provide proof against the Great Sita Ram Goel? I find it difficult to stop laughing at the story that people could not even think of a properly Hindu sounding name and called something "Tejo Mahalaya" that Muslims conveniently renamed Taj Mahal. Please show me some more Hindu buildings or names with either "tejo" or "Mahalaya" in them and I will then be able to stop laughing for a short while and start reading the "proof" provided by Goel.

Are you telling me that this is all the originality that Hindus can come up with? What an unlikely story.

[Vishy_mulay]

Shivji, I completely agree with your take on political rot in India esp for Hindus. I vote for BJP as it is lesser of two evils. Do I have alternatives? Do you think an alternative can be formed? I have no respect for Indian politicians irrespective what denomination they belong. Everyone is in to make quick buck. In these circumstances I will vote for someone who at least do lip service to my insecurities than someone who does not believe in them at all and taking my vote for granted. I blame Sonia and company because their policies are making me think for the first time as a Hindu and turning right wing. I think many in my generation are turning ultra right wing as a response to ultra left pseudo secularist policies. Do you blame my generation for turning ultra right wing? I firmly believe that Manmohans stupid policies of "Muslim First" have a significant role in recent debacle in Punjab and Uttaranchal. Hindus are not that stupid to blindly support Congress. Congress will have to come to soft Hindutva fold if it wants to come back in center. My 2 cents.

[shiv]

Shivji, I completely agree with your take on political rot in India esp for Hindus. I vote for BJP as it is lesser of two evils. Do I have alternatives? Do you think an alternative can be formed? I have no respect for Indian politicians irrespective what denomination they belong. Everyone is in to make quick buck. In these circumstances I will vote for someone who at least do lip service to my insecurities than someone who does not believe in them at all and taking my vote for granted. I blame Sonia and company because their policies are making me think for the first time as a Hindu and turning right wing. I think many in my generation are turning ultra right wing as a response to ultra left pseudo secularist policies. Do you blame my generation for turning ultra right wing? I firmly believe that Manmohans stupid policies of "Muslim First" have a significant role in recent debacle in Punjab and Uttaranchal. Hindus are not that stupid to blindly support Congress. Congress will have to come to soft Hindutva fold if it wants to come back in center. My 2 cents.

I have voted BJP consistently for the Lok Sabha. Ananth Kumar is from my locality. For local body election - all are equally corrupt or good.

It is OK to support a party provided you can point out what it is doing wrong and goad them to correct themselves.

I see issues like "reverse praise for BJP" by blaming Manmohan/Sonia/Christ for a coin. and claiming Hindu greatness by giving examples like "Tejo Mahalaya" as internationally laughable jokes created in ludicrously earnest seriouness by rustic Hindu buffoons who have no idea of the sophistication it requires to raise issues that make a difference in public opinion among the powerful elite where it really matters.

So we have these parties being too out of touch with reality to appeal to the elite and not enough of a fundamental power base to appeal to the masses.

[Arun_S]

Because Hindu believe it is a persons deeds/action/karma alone that decide their fate, and also it teaches to be kind and respectful of others because there is God's soul in everybody. Thus this so called unmeritful belief of superiority of Christianity is evil and we ask who gave the Christians the bigoted right to superiority vis a vis Hinduism? If it is their Bible/church/pope/pastor, then I you instantly realize & know they are not TRUE but FALSE.

Believers in Christ believe that no amount of good deeds will ever bridge the gap between God and man.

That is not the issue, the issue at hand is who goes to Hell.

The greatest commandment has two parts: Part 1 is to love God with heart, soul, and mind. Part 2 is to love others as one's self.

Again how is that any different from Hindu belief and its followers?

Do you have any answer to why Hindu's should not be offended by Christian bigotry in believing that Hindus will go to hell? Christian's can keep their belief in whatever (God, His angles, devil, pope, the cross or anything else) as long as they keep it within their heart. But if talk of their belief against Hindu's within earshot of a Hindu or in print, it is plain bigotry and disrespect for other God loving human beings and CONTRARY to the virtues "The greatest commandment" that you mention above & preach. What else is bigotry and deceit defined as?

[Calvin]

Shiv: It is not clear why you are choosing to stereotype Hindus in this sweeping fashion. What are you getting at?

[SaiK]

shyamd, sadler, et al, search/check Shashi Tharoor's articles or books.

[Vishy_mulay]

Vick, having interacted with someone like you (Mix faith heritage and Born again), I can only say that most probably you were never exposed to true Sanatan Dharma teachings (few of your posts also make that quite clear). Please read this whole thread to understand the intricacies and especially posts of Rakesh who has pinpointed the problem we SDFs have with EJs. No one here is against Christ or his teaching but concerned about the bazaar of soul harvesting with political economical and social engineering EJs are involved in.