Jaipur Blasts

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Raju

Post by Raju »

We cannot rule out the role of the Americans in this. Are they trying to send a message via the pakis about India not keeping it's part of the nuclear bargain. HuJI and HUM are as much a creation of the CIA as it is of the ISI. So it is noteworthy that GoI names HuJI, which is a symbol of this joint collaboration rather than LeT or JeM or home grown SIMI.
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Post by Tanaji »

Ah, but are we invading Bangladesh because Mr. Moorthy says so? :P

He has his opinions....

As far as "being blamed " goes: its remarkable as to how for most terrorist strikes the initial "being blamed" party turns out to be the final guilty one. Have you ever heard of anyone who was arrested that carried an identity card with a photo of himself and signed by Mullah Omar (in triplicate) saying he is a certified member of Harkat ul Laskhar ul Pigletistan party? Yet it is generally assumed that they were.

I suppose my point you are right so far as it goes, but dont discount so easily the involvement of HuJi yet.

For example look here:
http://in.rediff.com/news/2008/may/14rajblast17.htm
Last edited by Tanaji on 14 May 2008 17:22, edited 1 time in total.
Raju

Post by Raju »

It will be good if we could track various dates of importance in the nuclear deal calender and match them with terror strikes. IIRC the last few terror attacks starting with Ayodhya came on the eve of important dates on the nuclear-deal calender.
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Post by enqyoobOLD »

As far as "being blamed " goes: its remarkable as to how for most terrorist strikes the initial "being blamed" party turns out to be the final guilty one.


Tanaji: 90% of the credibility problem that Bharatiya Kanoon Enphorjement faces, is that there is no closure.
I know who was "initially blamed" for most terrorist strikes, but where is the closure? Some of the people arrested have been convicted and a few of those convictions have actually survived appeals, but in the end, was there closure regarding the involvement of specific organizations?

This may not be a problem caused by the law enforcement types, but it is caused by the fact that the Kendra Sarkar does not want to announce that the crime was traced to the Pakistani junta or the Chinese junta. Because then they are not going to do diddly-squat about it, and want to continue the wagah kandle-kissing.

On the other hand, there IS a huge problem with announcing minutes after a terrorist attack:
This is the hand oph the (substitute L-e-T, Hu-JI, HuM, U-Pick-1) onlee!
All they are doing is to tell outside people that they are starting with a blind prejudice, and going to go do what Inspecteur Renault ordered in "Casablanca".
Major Strasser has been shot! Arrest the usual suspects!


People who might commit the crime of thinking, being stupid, may wonder why, if the police are so sure about the activities of all these outfits, they can't arrest these bozos beforehand. Of course I see that half the intended terrorist attacks did not succeed - was that due to the police being one step behind the terrorists like in The Din oph El Jackal, or the citizens reporting suspicious packages, or because the bums were Made in Pakistan and performed accordingly?

Conclusions based on "Oh! They used nails! That is a trademark of XYZ" are silly. Like you said, so would a bum that comes with a picture of Osama - or a return postal address in Chittagong. Don't you think these oiseules can figure out that the police may check on those things?

The credibility of BRF, so enhanced by the sheer quality of reporting on the P.E.N.I.S. thread, suffers seriously when this ranting and raving occurs based on such declarations. 8)
Last edited by enqyoobOLD on 14 May 2008 17:30, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Sanku »

Tanaji wrote: I suppose my point you are right so far as it goes, but dont discount so easily the involvement of HuJi yet.
To paraphrase what esteemed N^3 himself said a long time ago BB case-- in incidents like this the truth is usually what the first news and reaction is.

Meanwhile I am happy -- we so called Chankian hindu's have a long history of easily forgiving and forgettting. Thank you HuJI for not letting us sleep and finally being the victim of a full fledged Jihad unprepared.

At least now no one can say "we didnt know" :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil:
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Post by SaiK »

Raju, I am with you on this.

It could be a indirect release of certain hold, that signals the men behind to say, now I don't care with you, since India is not seemingly coming under a super-baton control on the various issues, plus we announce things for the future without even considering the baton.

It could be co-incidence, but can't throw away your thoughts lightly.
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Post by enqyoobOLD »

Dear Sanku:
There is a difference between recording the first NEWS of specific facts in an attack - and believing the first Blame Game accusation of responsibility. It is the former that I recommended. Because the reports will be then filtered through the Lens of Acceptable Facts To Fit Accepted Conclusion, and disapppear from the news.
Small difference of course - why not go ahead and make the final conclusion at the start? Makes "investigation" so much simpler.
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Post by SSridhar »

While quick conclusion can rob it the credibility, it is obvious that after 500 terrorist attacks from a single source killing thousands over so many years, the 501st will naturally be blamed on the same source that perpetrated the earlier 500.
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Post by SSridhar »

US willing to help the probe - ToI

I hope we stay as far away from the US as possible. The 1993 trigger case cannot be forgotten.
Raju

Post by Raju »

probably they want to get their hands on to the unexploded device. If one reads carefully a compliant govt always invites more terror strikes because the perpetrators know that they suffer few chances of getting hit back. Whereas even a joker in the pack is someone they have to be wary about because the nature of the backlash is very unpredictable.

WIth MMS though, everything is very very predictable.
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Post by SaiK »

http://www.rajasthanpatrika.com/jaipur- ... lery/4.htm
who are these men tampering the crime data with their own foot marks?
where are the cops? are they educated to handle crime spots? I liked the maasa idea of errecting yellow tapes as perimeter.
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Post by SaiK »

Going by the rates of disaster and crimes and terrorist attack happens, every city needs cops and their associated agencies to handle the spot, like a swat team and take control.

Human bodies should be handled with utmost care, and sent to hospitals for examinations and possible recovery ASAP, and DDM folks needs training as well and be part of SWAT team.

Setup emergency hospitals on wheels, and have them in hunderds that can be despatched to any place, spread across the nation.

Why are dead? bodies thrown all over.. once handed over to hospital/swat/cops, they need to be kept in safer places, and perhaps govt has enough money to establish such setup in hospitals/ have it funded, or keep it mandatory @ min of 200 spots for dead bodies per hospital.
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Post by niran »

SaiK wrote: Setup emergency hospitals on wheels, and have them in hunderds that can be despatched to any place, spread across the nation.

Why are dead? bodies thrown all over.. once handed over to hospital/swat/cops, they need to be kept in safer places, and perhaps govt has enough money to establish such setup in hospitals.
Pray, please do tell us, how can an Emergency Hospital on wheels be
dispatched to say, Hyderabad in 40 min from Dilli(where most probably it will be stationed)

Dead bodies are not taken care of properly,in an emergency setting because "The Living Wounded" comes first.
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Post by Sanku »

enqyoob wrote:Dear Sanku:
There is a difference between recording the first NEWS of specific facts in an attack - and believing the first Blame Game accusation of responsibility.
How do we know whether ascribing it to HuJI is a fact or a assignment of blame? The apparatus in India usually "knows" many things pretty clearly as soon as it happens. Whether the same finally gets translated into action in terms of investigation and law apparatus is a different question.

In my personal experience -- the problem in India has usually not been the apparatus not "knowing" the facts; thats why what the police say initially before their utterances are modulated by other powers has a value of its own.

However saying that is a little different from "officially" assigning blame at first before the investigation.

As you say; a minor difference there.
f the police are so sure about the activities of all these outfits, they can't arrest these bozos beforehand.
Quite simply because their hands are usually tied before and after the incidents. This tie up is not only because of the power that be of the day, but also because of a retrograde system and overall culture of "not doing anything is always safer than doing something in terms of earning ire from one quarter or the other"

I thought this was rather obvious to Indian junta.
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Post by SaiK »

ajay pratap wrote:
SaiK wrote: Setup emergency hospitals on wheels, and have them in hunderds that can be despatched to any place, spread across the nation.

Why are dead? bodies thrown all over.. once handed over to hospital/swat/cops, they need to be kept in safer places, and perhaps govt has enough money to establish such setup in hospitals.
Pray, please do tell us, how can an Emergency Hospital on wheels be
dispatched to say, Hyderabad in 40 min from Dilli(where most probably it will be stationed)

Dead bodies are not taken care of properly,in an emergency setting because "The Living Wounded" comes first.
Yes.. we need to have a figure for each city based on demographics and population, and hospital setup. perhaps I did'nt say it clear/sorry.

How do you consider dead body is dead?
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Post by SwamyG »

Guys why don't you allow US to live in peace. It is discussing Hillary and Obama, you know how painful the dilemma, confusion and thoughts are for every day Joe Smith. Let them be.

Our Kendra Circar already is pointing at "neighboring" country for the blasts.
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Post by indygill »

SSridhar wrote:My condolences to the next of those who died in this jihadi barbarianism and my wishes to those who are injured for a quick and complete recovery.
The world is not going to do anything for us and why should they ? What have we done for ourselves ? quote]
Well why blame other nations and their media. All these Islamic terror in India is mellowed down in their reporting on behest of Indian institutions and GOI.
Raju

Post by Raju »

>>All these Islamic terror in India is mellowed down in their reporting on behest of Indian institutions and GOI.

how do you know that ?
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Post by SaiK »

SwamyG wrote:Guys why don't you allow US to live in peace. It is discussing Hillary and Obama, you know how painful the dilemma, confusion and thoughts are for every day Joe Smith. Let them be.

Our Kendra Circar already is pointing at "neighboring" country for the blasts.
I am not getting the context? what are you saying?
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Post by CRamS »

I mean a measure of how disgusting current state of affairs in India are, take a look at the home page of msn india. There is everything from IPL BS to Bollywood, even a picture feature speculating if Liz Hurley is pregnant, lots of importance to Chinese earthquake, and by the way, that terror attack in Jaipur. Wonder if India is really a country with proud citizens, or a bunch of people who happen to live in a land mass called India
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Post by AjayKK »

Sanku wrote
Meanwhile I am happy -- we so called Chankian hindu's have a long history of easily forgiving and forgettting. Thank you HuJI for not letting us sleep and finally ( ? ) being the victim of a full fledged Jihad unprepared.
It reminds me of this.
I for one am glad that St Thomas came to India in 52 AD and also the Islamic hordes that came to India during the time of Babur (or whenever they came). India is better off a nation of multi-religious faiths, otherwise we would be sharing the same fate as Pakistan.
We might as well thank we-know-who :roll:
"Thank you <lnsert name ..Huji al Buji > for making us lose sleep over the loss of lives of our countrymen by your actions in your attacks on Varnasi, Mumbai, Hyderabad ( twice ), Malegaon , Delhi , Ajmer , Samjhauta Exp., Uttar Pradesh courts in absence of which we might have forgotten about your glorious contribution to unite us cowering SDREs."
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Post by SaiK »

CRamS: you are comparing Microsoft and Reality. Why bring that here?
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Post by SSridhar »

Here is the official Indian reaction
With regard to Jaipur blasts, he {Foreign Secretary Shiv Shankar Menon} refused to accuse anybody, saying investigations were still on to ascertain who is behind it.

"We are still in the process of investigation. When we come to a conclusion about the roots, sources etc, then we will decide what to do," he said when asked if this incident will be discussed with Pakistan.
Procedural and normative decision-making process. This is the bane of Democracy.

We have come to 'conclusion' on many earlier terror strikes and nobody knows what the GoI did, except in one case, the Parliament attack.
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Post by CRamS »

I think more than anything else, the impotent rage of those Indians who care, including us here on BR, is what must be giving perverse orgasams to Mush and Co. In the eyes of the world, principally America Bahadur, to whom both India and TSP look up to for deliverance to the extent he cares, the bombings are 'anonymous', 'done to disrupt religious harmony' (and for good measure all reports will mention Ajmer to show that Muslims are being targetted equally), "India alleges TSP denies" etc etc. Heck, even TSP 'condemnded' the terror attack. But TSP knows India got the message, and India knows its TSP but can do nothing.

This kind of perverse pleasure that TSP is deriving is akin to a rape victim and rapist sitting in front a judge, with the rapist denying the crime with a straight face, the judge demanding that the victim present evidence instead of whining, and all the while the rapist looks at the victim with an evil eye conveying her the message: you b%^&*h, I raped you like a wild dog, and there is not a damn thing you can do about it.

In the meanwhile, the rape victim, India, is busy calling up TSP players to come and play in IPL. And the gossip columns are busy speculating if Sania Mirza or one of the Bollywood b^&*%es are swept off their feet by Shoiab Akhtar or Shahid Afridi or Younus Khan.
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Post by SaiK »

except the parliament attack..

huh!.. i recollect what my dad once said, they don't care about people, but only their votes. something has to happen, and it has to be the people again to die for help or to live in one among advancing nations.

its sad, that we still are like that onlee.
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Post by AjayKK »

.

N^3, " NEWS of specific facts in an attack " is well, hard to come by.
It is still not confirmed whether there were 7 blasts or 8. :shock:

Some news channels are putting the figure at 7while others are quoting police sources as 8 blasts.
Al Hundi being 0ne step ahead declares it as nine or ten blasts exploded.

Till facts emerge , such News " Updates " are the only sources

In fresh leads coming out of ongoing investigations into Tuesday night's (May 13) serial blasts in Jaipur, investigators probing the Jaipur blasts are now looking for a man called Shameem -- who is believed to be a resident of Muzzafarnagar in Uttar Pradesh.

Investigators have asked the Uttar Pradesh special task force and ATF to give them more information about Shameem. Its not the first time that Shameem's name has been linked to terror.29 years old Shameem's name first came up after the Varanasi blasts in March 2006.

HuJI militant -- Waliullah who was arrested in connection with the Sankat Mochan temple attack had told investigators that Shameem was one of his most trusted colleagues. Though Shameem was never traced investigators found out that he studied in a Madrasa in Sharanpur district of UP and has also travelled to Bangladesh for training.
http://www.timesnow.tv/Newsdtls.aspx?NewsID=8337
Last edited by AjayKK on 14 May 2008 19:19, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by indygill »

Karan Dixit wrote:There are few things we can do:

1) We can unite as a country. Currently Indians are divided. Example: Shiv Sena in Mumbai is whining about fellow Indians from UP and Bihar but has no problem about Pakis that openly roam in Mumbai. This kind of mentality is a serious threat to unity of the country.

2) We need to conduct counter attack on high value TSP targets. Example: Mush and other Pakis brasses.

3) It is worth declaring some underground bounty on the heads of some high value targets in TSP. Exampe: $25 Million dollars for anyone who takes out a Paki General.

Things like that.
On point 1) What is the common thread you are going to use to unite people? Remember what Nehruvism stands for. Where do you see "unity"? Remember we need to break the link with the past (Hinduism) and worship the new "temples" the "industry". Why blame shiv sena they were alone questioning Indias resolve towards Pakistan and islamism for past two decades. No one supported them??? So now for survival they are following what Nehruism propagates "regionalism and division". Remember as per Indian institutions India was never one "nation".

2) Indian institutions and GOI functions on "ideological fetishness" only. All their policies, outlook and resorts are not based on reality they make ideology "prime" and are thus not "pro-active". India at present is a meek state and its citizen despite paying a heavy price are mentally subdued into submission by GOI and its institutions through propaganda, lies and twisting of facts and reality. Forget about "attack" on terror camps, India cannot even implement the court verdict of supreme court against a convicted muslim terrorist involved in parliament attack.

3) Bounty!!!! that would be so unislamic on GOI parts. After all someone had mentiioned on BR that India is a "semi-islamic" state. Can you imagine what CPI and other commies would do India!!!!! Also do not forget Yadavs and ofcourse congress goons.... Imagine what they will do to the ones who would try to even propose such a resort.....

Bottom line the change has to come from "common man" until they understand the vicious death trap they are in as indian citizens under prevailing indian institutions and their policies and actions nothing will change. Till than "common man" will have keep sacrificing.... for what ?? maybe they should question GOI and its institutions... why are they "dying"?????
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Post by sauravjha »

Why blame shiv sena they were alone questioning Indias resolve towards Pakistan and islamism for past two decades. No one supported them??? So now for survival they are following what Nehruism propagates "regionalism and division".
Bullshit. the Sena has never up held the constitution and since the sixties it has been indulging in regionalism . In case you have forgotten, it started by targeting madrasis (Tamils) and now has switched over to Biharis.

they have always been for aamchi mati only . so please don't try to give a twisted justification for a party with patently anti-national ideologies. (literally) .

what has the sena done to quell the muslim underworld in Mumbai ?

it can only target poor Bihari chaiwallahs.
your stupid distorted logic will do nothing for Hindu unity.
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Post by Rahul Shukla »

Why Jaipur? Experts see Pokhran link (New India Press)
JAIPUR: Central Intelligence agencies are looking at the possibility of the Jaipur blasts being symbolic more than anything else. May 13 happens to be the tenth anniversary of Operation Shakti, when India conducted nuclear tests in Pokhran. If their hunch is right, there is more symbolism in the blasts...
A lot of illegal Bangladeshi immigrants live around Jaipur’s railway station and could have provided the crucial support to terrorists. The terrorists’ plan was “meticulousâ€
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Post by Inder Sharma »

sauravjha wrote:
please don't try to give a twisted justification for a party with patently anti-national ideologies. (literally) .
Saurav,
Tempers are running high and therefore please do not vent your misplaced anger against sainik; who despite their regional agenda(who isn't), are probably the only ones who remain devoutly and militantly aggressive when it pertains to Indian Nationalist and Hindu cause.

Let us not forget that on various occasions Bal Thakerey remained the only voice that said repond ‘Green suicide bombers’ with ‘Saffron bombers’; ‘LTTE can be used effectively to Assassinate Pig-L-e-T chiefs’ . etc..

So please, harvest this anger for cold vengeance but against the BD’s and Pakis not our own brethren.
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Post by kunal anand »

My prayers for the departed souls.
I believe the terrorists are trying to send a msg to us that they can strike any where in India at will. If You Increase security at Big temples, we are going to strike trains, if you increase the security at railway stations then we strike at even softer targets (or mosques). One thing is for sure they can't do it without help from some 'Indians'. Its upto our intelligence and law enforcement agencies to be a step ahead of them, out think them and terminate them before they strike.
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Post by bala »

Looks like the western press has buried the terrorism mayhem in Indian in page 6 or 7. This news caught my eye Pak denies its troops opened fire on Indian Army post
Pakistan on Wednesday denied that its troops opened unprovoked firing on an Indian border post in Jammu and Kashmir for the second time in less than a week. a spokesman of the Inter-Services Public Relations denied the, "Indian claim of unprovoked firing by Pakistani troops on the LoC in Neelam valley".
So K is back, terrorism is back sponsored by the usual suspects..
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Re: Shocked

Post by JwalaMukhi »

Shivani wrote:I do not know what to say.

Yes, I am in Jaipur. Today, I actually went to these markets in the afternoon.

I ask members to forgive me, but I am being very honest when I say that all the blasts we have had in other cities have not affected me at all, and I realized this only today. Other than the superficial outpouring of symathy and feelings for vengeance after all the other acts of terror, terrorism for me was something that I saw on TV, read about in newspapers, and discussed on the Internet.

Terrorism was something that happened to "other" people. Something very distant.
Shraddhanjali to the unready fighters and unwitting martyrs

Personalizing this letter to tiny toddler who we lost in cowardly manner in this unwitting combat. Pl. forgive us, who knowingly choose the easy path of not standing up when it counted and using you as cannon fodder in this battle against the vicious ideology. You may also be pained to know that we as a society have evaluated your worth to be five lakh rupees, largely as a unknown face, unknown name and more importantly as a one more component of the statistic. Sadly, you are out of luck, because atleast for airplane accident victims we as a society sometimes publish name and age in a non-descript corner in an unknown newspaper. Do not be disheartened as your absence will be met with steady fast resolve by your loved ones whose will to live has been sucked out of them. May our praryers for your atma bring much needed Shanti. We will never know if we missed another Kalam in the making. We can take your departure and ensure that you did not leave us in vain. The best we can do now is not to send you more companions by our neglect so you can have company and get cosy there. May I take liberty to name you as Krishna and request you to comeback to enrich our lives again.

Folks, the route to the neck of the piglets is through the hearts and minds of the Indic people. What Shivani wrote is a very common phenomena. The impact of the vicious ideology is not sinking inside the minds of the people. Hence each region and locality is painfully learning and re-learning this beast only to be forgotten quickly. This is unacceptable in this age of connectivity. People do look at these gory details and it evokes revulsion and lasts only a few days.

For starters, as far as possible it will be very useful for people to collect the photos, little background information of the unwitting superheros who laid down their lives in the combat against this ideology. These photos should be normal (not gory) and remind us who and what was lost. Collate the photos with their age and status and circulate them either through the e-media and where possible print media. Now, Psyche of person sitting in chirapungi or in Bengaluru or in Gurgaon has a better chance of sinking the viciousness of the ideology. People will grasp and start relating the victims as humans, who had a name, a face and relations, just as we all have now.

The idea is to not let their death become be a statistic, which soon relegates to become inhuman, as if few animals were lost. This is a massive failure of the society, to propagate and expose the viciousness of the ideology. Just filling the gory details will numb the brain and it will go into stasis. What is needed is a consistent reminder of the reason and create alertness of what is lost precious and never be allowed to be repeated. So even if it sinks in conscience of few good people things will change for better. Few good folks who getup and see these collated photos early in morning whey they head to work, will know what it means to be not in deriliction of duty. (BTW have the candle-kissers conveniently run out of candles to hold candle-light vigils now?)
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Post by shyamd »

I am sick and tired of seeing these terrorist attacks. I haven't taken a keen interest into what happened in this one, simply because I think these types of events will keep happening if we have a weak governments in power, who is not ready to solve the problems(internally) to prevent attacks such as this and also who are not ready to take action against murderers accross the border.

You have a home minister who smiles on national tv (after being asked if we could get intelligence inputs to prevent it) and says we can't do anything. It pretty much sums up the state of affairs.

The only way to stop these attacks is using covert means. Well, we can't just blame this govt, but also previous govt's where we had the opportunity to take out terrorist leaders, the politicians said no. Intelligence personel have said, we know who they are, we just need the go ahead and we can take them out.

We can do everything, it just needs a bit of balls/will from the people sitting with the power.

My heart goes out to the affected people.
Raju

Post by Raju »

Barkha Dutt has started to talk about the *spirit of people of Jaipur*
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Post by CRamS »

Raju wrote:Barkha Dutt has started to talk about the *spirit of people of Jaipur*
It was only a matter of time. I bet her line would include: "... but for extremists on both sides".
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Post by Abhi »

[quote="MuthuswamyM"]This is Moorthy Muthuswamy.
Sooner the Indian military takes a leadership position to fight the internal enemy “ armyâ€
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Post by Sanku »

AjayKK wrote:Sanku wrote
You didn't really get my post did you. Anyway forget it.
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Post by CRamS »

Abhi wrote: See how proudly this Colonel
says they did not retalite to Pak firing:
Indian army spokesman Lt-Col AK Mathur said: "The Pakistan army resorted to unprovoked firing... our troops did not retaliate, no-one was hurt.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/7400519.stm

Situation I believe is hopeless.
Contrast that with how the might US military will obliterate a small Iranian fishing boat in the Persian gulf, then hand over cool vidos to Fox/CNN to air round the clock as US retailiantion for Iranian provocation, while Peter Bergen will cite this is yet another example of how real the Al Quaida threat is.
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Post by ramana »

shyamd, Common folks can take precautionary measures:

Be alert for anyone can be a victim of terrorist attack.

Watch out for out of ordinary events, people and places while not being stereotypical.

And form local watchdog committees and laise with police and civil defence folks.

Pressure the officials to ensure that hospitals etc have adequate capacity. Why not use this thread to collect what can citizens do rather than wait for government which cant do much for various reasons.
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