Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - May 16 2009

Dilbu · Post by **Dilbu** » 03 Jun 2009 23:53

SSridhar wrote:I think there is an Indian charm offensive in the offing. That's a new strategy considering the speed with which the new government is announcing decisions on the TSP relations. Velvet glove with an iron fist.

It is plain and simple towel throwing. No iron, brass, steel, aluminium or copper fist is going to come out. A few thousand Indians getting killed every year is not a big deal. Bade bade deshon mein....

Samay · Post by **Samay** » 03 Jun 2009 23:59

deleted

vsudhir · Post by **vsudhir** » 04 Jun 2009 00:01

The charade/tamasha continues...

Pak govt to appeal against Saeed's release

Pak says it will move the court against Lahore HC decision to free the JuD chief.

kyaikee...

Baljeet · Post by **Baljeet** » 04 Jun 2009 00:02

Uddu Boss,

Indian troops maintained restraint and did not fire back, the official said.{ooh, wonderful. May be because MMS said ''we bant to see a stable Pakistan'' Is he working for Pakistan or he the PM of India. How can a stable Pakistan, a Pakistan that is created with the vision of hatred towards Indians and working for the destruction of India as its ideology, can be in India's interest. MMSji kindly explain. It's way beyond the thinking capability of this SDRE. I thought the land from their they fired must be in Indian hands by now.}

MMS is a khatri Sikh. Had there been an Indian Jat Sikh instead of him, things would be different. This Blue Pagri has embarrassed us deeply. He has done more damage to Sikh's reputation as warriors than anyone else couldn't do in last 500 years.
Remember his speech post Mumbai attack, he came on TV and said, "There will be cost". Now we know what he meant, his meaning "I beg pakistanis to stop attacking us, there will be cost and the cost is I will give up my blue pagri and start wearing brown pagri, if you still don't stop terrorism I will go cry and compalin to Gora Shaib Principal to punish you".

Moderator EDIT: Baljeet, you have two warnings already. It seems you cannot keep your emotions in check or you simply don't care. I am serving you your third warning and a ban. We do not approve of such postings in our forum.

vsudhir · Post by **vsudhir** » 04 Jun 2009 00:06

Baljeet dude, pls to remove references to MMS' ethnic origins lest adminullah drones start to hover around here....

India, Pak should play more: Gill

Samay · Post by **Samay** » 04 Jun 2009 00:09

I think the american presence in afghanistan has a meaning beyond taliban and porks. Whatever benefits may be involved but they have already wasted trillions till date.

Those reasons whatever they are ,but they are against Indian interests. But in the end it will be India that will be in benefit.
Russians still have to play their trump card,same goes for chinese,iranians and Indians as well. I guess while americans are busy tormenting their economy to another recession 2012,due to war burden, each player will play its own card on time.
Meanwhile pakistani state actors and non state actors are getting stronger due to their specific affairs with americans , and will cause american money to sink in a black hole.
Indian strategy of inviting pakistan for peace talks may look odd , but it goes against american efforts to disrupt it. In totality american influence in the region is now limited to drone strikes only as their role as a unbiased player in not certain to produce results , neither it did in middle east ,north-south korea, nor it will will work if america is a mediator inIndo-pak peace/formal talks. Therefore current events show that american soft/diplomatic power/prestige is on a rapid downfall globally.
As we can see that all chessboard pieces are in their place and the new world order has started its great game against american presence everywhere ,and will bear fruits as new players will jump in between against america.
obama administration has a last chance of saving american prestige , if it gives priority to sanctity over world known american greed.
Indian moves of talks and silent observation since 26/11 are smarter moves than would have been if tougher actions of an aggressor were taken,.

*Just a note: FBI was given all proofs and details related to terror masterminds ,investigated n its own,acknowledged the problem , but mr.hole-broke is acting like a lawhori addict even on hafiz's release.
Enough to prove the intentions of america and what they are going to pay in long term .

aditya · Post by **aditya** » 04 Jun 2009 00:14

[edited]

rsingh · Post by **rsingh** » 04 Jun 2009 00:42

Admins, why not to have nukaad and Benis dhaga in old way. It is pain in ass to find the good threads. Yesterday it was there today it is not there?

Muppalla · Post by **Muppalla** » 04 Jun 2009 01:51

Osama delivers speech before Obama

http://www.indianexpress.com/story-print/470902/

This time it is Pakistan specific.

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 04 Jun 2009 02:02

I think Obama needs to send Clinton to make peace with these two. Ask them to withdraw some troops from Swat so that the Pakistani Army can move from West to Karachi in the South and even perhaps patrol the US border with Mexico.

Anujan · Post by **Anujan** » 04 Jun 2009 02:35

The Disposable Al-lie, a hour long towel by Yawn. The other episodes are in the "related videos" pane. Conveniently Pakistanis doing voluntary GUBO and using the money and arms against India is glossed over. Pakis training jihadis voluntarily for cashmere jihad, strategic depth is glossed over.

If you dont have time, watch this 5 minutes for a display of real pakiness.

Rahul Shukla · Post by **Rahul Shukla** » 04 Jun 2009 03:09

ashish raval wrote:^^ totally " Nanga (naked) Bhikhari " attitude...

It is not that simple. There are certain mundane procedural details known as "Rules of Engagement" that apply to any such incident on the LoC/IB. Per Indian rules of engagement, you need permission to fire back if fired upon. There are obviously exceptions to the rule. You are not going to run to the telephone/2-way if an abdul is 30 feet away armed with a Heckler Koch. Then you must call asap to report a Pakistani casualty.

Don't worry, ok? The same Indian troops are still manning the same Indian post, no Indian soldiers have resigned from service after being fired upon and the Pakistanis who fired on the Indian post (more likely around the post) know that if the yindoos are in range, they are too! IA gives as good as it gets on the IB/LOC or else you'd be wearing a kufi cap already.

AOA!

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 04 Jun 2009 04:28

Interesting Hindu headline

Holbrooke says US disturbed by Saeed's release, reverses later

Looks like reversal happened after meeting TSP leadership. So there were extenuating circumustances which US envoy understands despite undermining his own credibility.

I didn't know he was on visit for that explains the release. TSP has this set pattern of doing something outrageous before the visit of an important personage. If the visit continues then that behavior is condoned and they get away with it. It also allows them to put on a show of defiance (for local H&D) while giving into something larger/greater. So expect a new low in TSP state behavior soon. The fact that Hol(e)brooke took back his statement is evidence that Saeed release is not on his agenda. Something else is and he got it.

johneeG · Post by **johneeG** » 04 Jun 2009 05:06

It is plain and simple towel throwing. No iron, brass, steel, aluminium or copper fist is going to come out. A few thousand Indians getting killed every year is not a big deal. Bade bade deshon mein....

I almost agreed with you until I remembered how MMS' general style of working. Firstly, he looks vulnerable, his opponents generally get tempted into believing that he has thrown in the towel and the opponents get into a false-sense of security, and when they are not alert and expect least, MMS strikes. Case in point is nuke deal and the way he dealt with the Left. MMS in his own words behaved like a 'bonded slave', Left thought the mission was accomplished, then when no one expected, MMS dropped the 'bomb' on Left, his own party(and forced the G-family to support lest he resign), and the opposition. He made a joker out of Karat(who was 24-karat gold in DDM eyes before that incident), he caught BJP off-guard, and the party that initiated this nuke deal, ended up resisting it without offering any credible reasoning.

Now, MMS is not an elected politician. But he has already become the PM of India twice, something that even the veterans of Indian politics couldnt claim. He has led a corrupt cabinet and bought votes in con-fidence vote, yet his 'honesty and integrity' are unquestionable.

So, maybe just maybe, he has some ace up his sleeve to deal with paki prob also. My theory(though I am not convinced fully myself but I am presenting it anyway) FWIW:
MMS is letting the paki pigs and their handlers into believing that India is now a cake-walk. He wants them to become unguarded and commit a mistake. Look already how the paki scum are behaving, they are not even bothered to cloak their daggers. They are openly admitting that their nukes have protected them after committing terror at the scale of 26/11. Then when we are sufficiently ready and then we strike at the time of our choosing and when 'they' least expect it.
Just My 2 Paise

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 04 Jun 2009 05:15

sum wrote:Where is the iron fist, Sridhar sir?

Rahul Shukla wrote:It is tied to the yindoo leg with a steel cable also wrapped in Velvet.

Dilbu wrote:It is plain and simple towel throwing. No iron, brass, steel, aluminium or copper fist is going to come out.

Wait guys. There is a policy review going on in the South Block. After all, haven't we waited for two decades ?

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 04 Jun 2009 05:22

India now making efforts at the UN to proscribe JeM Chief

India is making efforts to get Jaish-e-Mohammad chief Masood Azhar along with two top Lashkar-e-Taiba terrorists proscribed by the U.N. even as its efforts to get Jamaat-ud-Dawa chief Hafiz Mohd Saeed banned have not fructified so far.

The interesting observation is

Afterwards, an effort was made to get Saeed proscribed by the UNSC but it was blocked by Britain and China, which wanted it to be put on hold. Britain knows that terrorism affecting it comes from Pakistan and feels that it could deal with such a problem by keeping Islamabad in good humour.

Gerard · Post by **Gerard** » 04 Jun 2009 05:30

Shop owner takes pity on robber

Mr Sohail, who moved to the United States from Pakistan about 20 years ago, said he was getting ready to close his store shortly after midnight on May 21 when the man in his 40s entered with a bat in his hand. Mr Sohail said he tried to stall for a moment and then grabbed a rifle he keeps behind the counter and ordered the assailant to drop the bat.

The would-be thief dropped to his knees and begged for forgiveness, Mr Sohail added.

"He started crying that he was out of work and was trying to feed his hungry family," he said. "I felt bad for him. I mean, this wasn't some kid."

He said he tossed $40 to the man, who then stood up and told Mr Sohail he was inspired by the act of mercy and wanted to become a fellow Muslim. Mr Sohail said he led the man in a profession of Muslim faith and the two ended up shaking hands.

Anujan · Post by **Anujan** » 04 Jun 2009 05:38

Gerard wrote:Shop owner takes pity on robber

Where else have I heard this story of attacking first, getting musharraf kicked, appealing for H&D, getting a pardon and then deciding that more ijlaam is the solution ?

37 years later, the robber is planning to appeal to his american employer and chineese neighbor for a bailout, because he set his house is on fire.

johneeG · Post by **johneeG** » 04 Jun 2009 05:54

Anujan wrote:
Gerard wrote:Shop owner takes pity on robber
Where else have I heard this story of attacking first, getting musharraf kicked, appealing for H&D, getting a pardon and then deciding that more ijlaam is the solution ?

37 years later, the robber is planning to appeal to his american employer and chineese neighbor for a bailout, because he set his house is on fire.

The robber tried to set fire to his neighbour's house(the act in which he succeeded to an extent) but he had to suffer the blowback, his own house also caught fire in the process....
So, the robber is appealing to american employer and chinese fliend for bailout becoz he was doing their dirty work.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 04 Jun 2009 06:20

[quote
37 years later, the robber is planning to appeal to his american employer and chineese neighbor for a bailout, because he set his house is on fire.[/quote]

A goon /thief was walking with his son in the evening . Pointing out to a party in a well lit mansion on the hill , he told his son that he has robbed that house couple of time. Son , curiously asked old man , Daddy how come we still live in a run down hut and dont even lamp and these guys in the mansion are still having party and fun. The story has so much parallel with our Puke neighbor. They remain theif and begger still after living on loot of Hunoods and Sikhs hard work in Pakjab.

shynee · Post by **shynee** » 04 Jun 2009 07:08

India likely to resume talks with Pakistan - from TOI{let}

LeT planning another attack

anupmisra · Post by **anupmisra** » 04 Jun 2009 07:36

Must be porkis

Umpire ‘hit for six’ with stumps

LONDON: A 19-year-old umpire was allegedly mobbed by fielders and hit with the stumps after giving a batsman not out, newspapers reported on Wednesday. Matthew Lowson was allegedly attacked during a game between Sheffield Alliance Cricket Club and Bradford Shimla in the Quaid-e-Azam Sunday Cricket League in Yorkshire, northern England. The incident in Rotherham has drawn the ire of local Test umpiring legend Dickie Bird. Shimla players appealed for a catch which Lowson gave not out, sparking the controversy, newspapers said. The incident is also being investigated by the league.

anupmisra · Post by **anupmisra** » 04 Jun 2009 07:40

The 'foreign-hand' conspiracy theory
Or, is it the foreign finger?

There is the usual condemnation; people voice their anger, especially if they are in front of the camera or talking to a reporter. The talking heads on television channels repeat the same mantra – India with the help of Israel and America wants to destabilise Pakistan because of its nuclear capabilities, etc.

Unless we adopt a realistic approach, we will never understand our standing in the world today. ....Democratic environment, coupled with freedom of speech might help Pakistan become the kind of society that overcomes hardships, and where citizens make the ultimate decision about their lives and the future of their country.

It is also time to re-examine the role of the mullah in our society. If the country is really interested in giving the powers that he enjoys today, the nation will have to equip the mullah with contemporary knowledge so that he can balance life and the demands of today's busy lifestyle.

IndraD · Post by **IndraD** » 04 Jun 2009 07:42

Jhonee G=MMS is letting the paki pigs and their handlers into believing that India is now a cake-walk. He wants them to become unguarded and commit a mistake. Look already how the paki scum are behaving, they are not even bothered to cloak their daggers. They are openly admitting that their nukes have protected them after committing terror at the scale of 26/11. Then when we are sufficiently ready and then we strike at the time of our choosing and when 'they' least expect it. Just My 2 Paise

I really do not understand your point here, react when after 5 years of crime (6 months already gone)? firstly we all know this govt is incapable of any response secondly justice delayed is justice denied.

anupmisra · Post by **anupmisra** » 04 Jun 2009 07:43

An Afghan wishing a Porki "Wishing You The Same"

A few months back I was talking to a friend of mine from Afghanistan, and naturally the Taliban came up for discussion. This is what he had to say: "Sir, I grew up in Peshawar because my family could not live in Afghanistan. Often, people in Pakistan would ask me why I was not living under the pure Islamic system that the Taliban had implemented. They wondered if I was not a true Muslim if I was running away from them, and that I should praise their efforts to impose the will of Allah on that land. You know what I would say to them? I would always say to them that I hope and pray one day the Taliban become rulers and masters of Pakistan and that people living in the cities of this country get to experience life under them. Only then will you Pakistanis know what it is like, and you will never question Afghans' faith and desire to live under the Islam of the Taliban." Clearly, he was right.

Sohaib Athar

Boston

anupmisra · Post by **anupmisra** » 04 Jun 2009 07:45

All those porkis who drink champagne, please raise your hand

'Bad' Muslims

Thursday, June 04, 2009
According to a news item, Hafiz Saeed's counsel A K Dogar told the Lahore High Court that the victims of the Marriott Hotel blast in Islamabad were 'bad Muslims' who drank alcohol. I would like to know on what basis the learned advocate concluded that all Marriott Hotel blast victims drank champagne, and also whether the constitution of the country defines bad Muslims as those who consume alcohol. Moreover, by saying such a thing, does he recommend that all Muslims who drink champagne should be blown up?

Shakir Lakhani

Karachi

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 04 Jun 2009 08:04

shynee wrote:India likely to resume talks with Pakistan - from TOI{let}

LeT planning another attack

Lets get to the timeline here. Soon after Pakis launched Mumbai, India first huffed and puffed, said hand over pigs or else ..., then that stance was diluted, bring the scum to justice, to no chai biskoot session till pigs brought to justice, and now, abject surrender. There is nothing Chanakyan in this. And the best part is, MMS just goes about his business with no admonition from the Indian public, media etc; on the contray only praise and respect for him. Mera Bharat Mahan

.

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 04 Jun 2009 08:12

That was predictable.

Next step now.

No option but to get to the table before Clinton arrives - make her visit worthless. IF at all Pakistanis can be expected to create a diversion in Kashmir by attacking hindues/sikhs/whoever. And the cycle will repeat. You see we cannot disturb the neat, clean, ironed Af-Pak policy too. Obama may go to Islo and give a talk on proper international behavior and policy formulation.

I get the sense that by the time Obama leave office we ALL should get a MBA - just listening to his lectures.

Karkala Joishy · Post by **Karkala Joishy** » 04 Jun 2009 09:00

If only their ancestors had not GUBOed to Ghazni, Ghori and the other terrorists.... all this would have been averted.

anupmisra wrote:An Afghan wishing a Porki "Wishing You The Same"

A few months back I was talking to a friend of mine from Afghanistan, and naturally the Taliban came up for discussion. This is what he had to say: "Sir, I grew up in Peshawar because my family could not live in Afghanistan. Often, people in Pakistan would ask me why I was not living under the pure Islamic system that the Taliban had implemented. They wondered if I was not a true Muslim if I was running away from them, and that I should praise their efforts to impose the will of Allah on that land. You know what I would say to them? I would always say to them that I hope and pray one day the Taliban become rulers and masters of Pakistan and that people living in the cities of this country get to experience life under them. Only then will you Pakistanis know what it is like, and you will never question Afghans' faith and desire to live under the Islam of the Taliban." Clearly, he was right.

Sohaib Athar

Boston

IndraD · Post by **IndraD** » 04 Jun 2009 09:02

CRamS wrote:Lets get to the timeline here. Soon after Pakis launched Mumbai, India first huffed and puffed, said hand over pigs or else ..., then that stance was diluted, bring the scum to justice, to no chai biskoot session till pigs brought to justice, and now, abject surrender. There is nothing Chanakyan in this. And the best part is, MMS just goes about his business with no admonition from the Indian public, media etc; on the contray only praise and respect for him. Mera Bharat Mahan .

Lets accept this for the final time. Issues like terrorism and internal security do not matter. This is only in the mind of urban class who do not vote. In one way it takes the wind out of Paki sail because whatever be the number and magnitude of attack we won't react hence they will keep fighting Taliban on North West.

Trust me this is exactly why MMS is not reacting (even verbally). I think Dawood doesn't need to fear India any more he should freely roam on streets of Pakistan, give interview and once in a while come to Bollywood in disguise.

IndraD · Post by **IndraD** » 04 Jun 2009 09:16

NEW DELHI: Pakistan may be thumbing its nose at India by releasing wanted terrorists like Hafeez Saeed, but New Delhi is veering around to the view that talks with Islamabad that were suspended after the 26/11 Mumbai attack should be resumed as engagement, however frustrating, would be better than benign neglect of the source of its terror problem.
Some version of a dialogue with Pakistan is expected to start soon, possibly before the visit of US secretary of state Hillary Clinton to India which is likely in the first week of July. India knows that powers like the US would try to nudge India to the negotiating table, and it would be better not to be seen as having been pressured into the talks.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Indi ... 614933.cms
worst fear comes true

Prem Kumar · Post by **Prem Kumar** » 04 Jun 2009 09:32

Cross-posting from the Af-Pak thread:

India looking at dialogue option on Pakistan again
http://www.hindu.com/2009/06/04/stories ... 681000.htm

The well placed source says

“We should not negotiate out of fear but we should not fear negotiations either,”

(a cheap copy of Kennedy's quote)

and later in the same article

Since the Mumbai terrorist attacks of November 2008, India has stuck to the position that there will be no resumption of dialogue with Pakistan until the “infrastructure of terrorism” in that country is dismantled and the perpetrators and masterminds of the incident are brought to justice.
“It may not be possible for India to insist, in the face of pressure from other countries, that we will talk only when these two conditions are fulfilled,”

If that's not "negotiating out of fear", I dont know what else is.

Excuse me while I throw up.

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 04 Jun 2009 09:40

Guys:

Pardon me for sounding like a traitor, but if USA/TSP/China combine want to break up India, it would be now through coordinated terrosit assualts, nuke blackmails, and travel advisories. If they wait longer, maybe, just maybe, India might become richer and more united. Reason being that Indian public is so divided along caste, religion, urban, rural, rich, poor, north, south etc; that no matter what the scale of the humiliation they inflcit on India, Mumbai being a case in point, Indians don't seem to demand justice against the perpetrators in a united voice. Slowly, but steadily, as MMS makes slow-motion love to his long lost Paki lovers, with overwhelming approval from USA, he will gift away Kashmir under the guise of economic development, and Indians will go with it. Those who oppose it like me are "Hindu Taliban" or "Brahmins out of touch with Modern India". After that it will be "South Asia" nuclear free zone in synch with Microsoft announcing the opening of a software park in Gurgaon, and Indians will be so elated that the nuclear sell out may not even be on their radar screen. The list goes on.

Has there ever been another case in history where a civilization has been mowed down in slow motion like this with the willing collaboration of the inhabitants themselves?

p_saggu · Post by **p_saggu** » 04 Jun 2009 09:44

<rant> Well Pakistan negotiates with a gun to its head, India negotiates all the time, never even gets its gun out. Its like we are chronic negotiators. Our governments will negotiate almost anything with someone who has power. And one has to admit a weak kneed GOI is overawed by the terror power of pakistan.

Ordinarily, our politicians would like life to go on so that the money making goes on uninterrupted, the poor don't get the time to raise their heads for a cause. A big terror incident does make the GOI look impotent, but they are too weak kneed to do anything about it, even if their own credibility takes a hit.

I am not even convinced we are involved in balochistan. Even if we are, it is sure to be half hearted, because the people who are doing the things that need to be done on the ground, know that GOI does not have the balls to follow through on the promises India has made to the Balochis.

Pakistan need have no fear of India. The Islamic terror groups are indeed an asset more powerful than nukes, their hold over GOI is all encompassing. They can go on uninterrupted, because GOI is mindful of its secularism. To it taking action against someone who professes to be pure, is a attack against a religion itself. Pure votebank politics at play - a more deeper motivation than national honor.

Pakistan is NEVER going to get it from India. They are immune I'm afraid</rant>

harbans · Post by **harbans** » 04 Jun 2009 10:03

This is indeed disgusting. What do we talk about? You talk about Mumbai and they'll rake Kashmir. The Paki mindset is inamenable to rational conversation and thinking. I think it's time we start a new thread on "Is a stable Pakistan in India's interests" or "Should Pakistan be split up". The idea is to give a larger latitude to this thinking, specially for the following reasons:

1. All terror activities against India launched/ hatched from Pakistan end up in a nuclear blackmail scenario, leaving India and it's citizens frustrated and unable to fend off or defend itself against the Pakistani state/ estblishment.

2. Come what may, Pakistan as a state will always be hostile to India as long as the concept of Jihad remains in the Koran. The ideals of Ghazwa e Hind can never be removed from the Paki psyche. Not by talks, not by WKKs, not by rational kufr means.

3. Even if Pakistan becomes a 'stable' economic power, it will continually develop WMD and massively arm itself, making the consts for future conflict with India enormously high, thus leaving future generations in India to suffer enormous costs.

4. If Pakistan's population has more than tripled in 60 years, once can imagine what will happen in another 60! This Pakistan will not prevent it's population from exploding and the clamor for Kashmir specially due to it being the source for river water will keep increasing. By splitting Pakistan we have within communities that will free float to other regions because of ethnic connections. Like Pashtuns can spill over to parts of Afghanistan. Balochi's to Iran. It will be also easier to bring/ force in population control measures in a split Pakistan better than a stable single entity.

5. China and Pakistan do face land problems. Pakistan: 150 million or more people stay in an area lesser than the size of UP. (Look at the relief in Pakistan). China: 1.3 Billion people stay in an area lesser than the size of Indian plains. (Look at the relief features, had posted the population breakups of most of Chinese provinces in earlier thread).

6. BRF may not have enough latitude getting someone to act, but it can provide a platform where cliched thinking like "a stable Pakistan is in India's interests' can be challenged.

By doing this we do indeed give rationale to the fact that this cliche about 'stable Pakistan..' being good is actually nothing but disaster and specifically so for India.

The idea by putting up a thread is to initiate a line of reasoning why a split Pakistan is better for all of us. We analyze, how India can control and develop smaller states emerging from a split Pakistan by managing water disputes between say Sindh and Pakistan. How India can get corridors to CA and Afghanistan by giving incentives to particular states. How we can encourage competition and develop corridors not through one but more states. Why the Kashmir problem would be redundant in case Pakistan is split. Why Nukes will be redundant if Pakistan is split. Why the Pakistani Muslim will be better off economically, socially and politically by belonging to a smaller entity thats closer to it's neighbours, e'g Sindh to India, Balochis to India, Iran, Pashtuns to Afghanistan and CA, etc.

It is important to realize the Ghazwa mentality will recede once there is a split in Pakistan. Also it may change the thinking of many who lurk but are unfamiliar or still live by the cliche..a Stable Pakistan is good for everyone.

Give peace a Chance and break Pakistan!

svenkat · Post by **svenkat** » 04 Jun 2009 10:38

CRamS,

This is a bit personal.I was like you until recently.Terribly frustrated with what i felt was indian weakness.Have you ever wondered how much of this feeling of impotence has to do with your 'identity' in an imagined India.You have stated the infinite diversity of India.Everyone acknowledges that.Rightly we have opted for democracy.We have implacable enemies in the Anglo Saxon protestants,Lizard and Barbaria.We all know the constraints of MMS.Whatever his failings how could we have managed this better?

The Indian people have voted for UPA.Which means there can be no jingoistic mobilisation.The diversity of India is the reality.So what can be done?We can improve our internal security,policy concentrate on education,infrastructure,health,drinking water and wait and prepare for a better day.

Porkis have foreign backers.Let us face it.Our past and its interpretation by slimeys doesnt allow for jingoism.I think there will be no repeat of 26/11.The red lines have been crossed.While we cannot annihilate porkistan we are strong enough to make everyone realise that enough is enough.Let us not deride our ability to defend ourselves.

The Anglo Saxons and Lizard will guarantee existence of porkistan.But putting on a Hindu philosophical cap,Karma is a b*****.Who could have predicted 9/11.Who could have foreseen the collapse of Baki tactical thinking?

The Pakjabi thinking is nothing but a marriage of Hindu feudal converts and the Kabila.Whatever Hindu thought remaining will be under attack from Islamisation.The feudals are facing the heat from Army and the Army will become openly jrhadi.

The GOI must have reasoned that it is best to protect India and continue chai-biskoot sessions.This will frustrate the Anglo Saxons who would expect India to be outraged by Baki inaction on past atrocities.

But why should we expect anything from Bakis and Anglo Saxons? It is enough to make the most obtuse amirkhans realise that indian territory is inviolable.This is within our realm.

Porkis have a zillion more reasons to be frustrated-Kashmir,Afghanistan.There is no way Pakistan can ever regain their control.

In "time" Bakistan will implode.When Pakjabi cowards lose control to mullahs,then it is time to worry.But that will be a problem for amirkhans as well.

Anujan · Post by **Anujan** » 04 Jun 2009 10:47

Obama Seeks More Aid For Displaced Pakistanis

President Obama has asked Congress for an additional $200 million in emergency aid for 3 million Pakistanis displaced by their government's ongoing military offensive against Taliban extremists

The new funding, to be added to Obama's pending supplemental spending request for the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, would nearly triple the amount of U.S. emergency aid for Pakistan. The administration authorized $110 million three weeks ago and is spending an additional $20 million for transportation and other purposes.

Holbrooke emphasized that his hastily arranged three-day visit was "at the personal instruction of President Obama" and reflected White House concern about Pakistanis fleeing heavy fighting in the Swat Valley

Humanitarian workers also said that up to 40 percent of the 200,000 people who have registered for assistance in displacement camps -- and the millions who have been given refuge in the homes of friends, relatives and even strangers -- have signed up twice and even three times for benefits. The World Food Program has said it will suspend food distributions for at least several days this week to institute a new registration system.

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 04 Jun 2009 10:53

http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/200 ... es_fa.html

Obama's Muslim Audience Lies Far Beyond Cairo: Author

By Frank James

Mohsin Hamid, a Pakistani novelist who attended college and law school in the U.S. and now lives in London, spoke with All Things Considered host Melissa Block today in advance of President Barack Obama's highly anticipated speech to the Muslim world in Cairo, Egypt tomorrow.
description

Mohsin Hamid Ed Kashi

Hamid was interesting on a number of issues, including the Obama's choice of Cairo as the venue for his speech. Salient points by Hamid: the Muslim world's center of gravity in terms of population and democracy, is actually further east than the Middle East.

An excerpt from their conversation

MELISSA: Do you see a see a logic in his choice of Cairo as venue for this speech or would you have rather seen him go maybe outside the Arab world, maybe even give the speech in Pakistan, for example.

HAMID: I think if he had given the speech in Pakistan that would have been incredible.

There's both pros and cons about the choice of Cairo.

If the intention is to speak to the Arab world, then of course Cairo is the capital of Egypt, the most populous country in the Arab world. And geographically right in the middle of the Arab world.

But people often forget that the majority of Muslims are not Arabs, countries like Pakistan, Nigeria, Indonesia, Bangladesh all have more people than any Arab country.

And more than half of Muslims live from Pakistan to Indonesia, far more than live between Iran and Morocco.

So I think this kind of Arab centric or Middle East centric view of Islam is perhaps a bit, it tends to misunderstand, I think, where the Muslim population lives and what the concerns of that population are.

MELISSA: What would those concerns be? What would the misunderstanding be that you might want to see him address in addressing this broader population outside the Arab world.

Ahmid: Well its interesting if you look at Pakistan, Indonesia, Bangladesh, these countries have done much more to advance democracy than really any country in the Arab Middle East,. When you talk about the emerging Muslim democracies, in Malaysia as well, a number of countries are beginning to make forward progress in this area. I think reaching out to those countries is of great importance.

Of course, the Persian Gulf, the Arabian Gulf, with its enormous oil reserves, tends to pull American attention back toward Saudi Arabia, back towards the countries surrounding the gulf. But that's a concern really about natural resources perhaps more than about human beings.

johneeG · Post by **johneeG** » 04 Jun 2009 10:58

IndraD wrote:I really do not understand your point here, react when after 5 years of crime (6 months already gone)? firstly we all know this govt is incapable of any response secondly justice delayed is justice denied.

Indra,
I understand your frustration and believe me, I feel it too. All I was try was to rationalise GOIs reaction so far. It makes absolutely no sense to me that GOI should surrender so abjectly, so I am trying to see some chankian strategy behind this......

Anyway,
Lets analyse all options and scenarios:

Firstly, nukes:
IF pakistan has the control of nukes, IF they work, then there is no doubt in mind that they would use them(they are not bluffing). Are we ready to take nukes on our chin, are we read for MAD situation? When I say 'we', I mean not only the GOI, but also the commoners on street. IMVHO, no. No one in India is ready for such a scenario. Further, there is reasonable 'fear' that any limited strike will make pakis go made and they will resort to nukes. Also, are the limited strikes(or any other variation of such thought) going to yield long lasting results? We are not sure. So, the risk is high, the returns are low. India(GOI and ppl) is not ready for this.

Next option:
Using diplomacy, UN, US,.....etc to put pressure on Pak. We tried and it has failed.

Last option:
To strengthen ourselves economically, militaryly or whatever otherway. Increase the gap between India and Pakis. Plug all the internal security loopholes. Get a credible nuke shield, and create an arms race that should make pakis put all their aid money to compete with us. And when we are ready and we can initiate any action as we deem fit at the time of our choosing.
Meanwhile, use water as a leverage. Intensify balochistan secession movement and even support it openly on the forums like UN(just H&D damage, nothing more). Create bases in Afghanistan. Finally, develop covert abilities and liquidate pigs like Dawood, Sayeed, Lakhvi, Azhar,.....etc.

PS: Of course, you might say that this is all cowardice. But thats reality. Yes, justice delayed is justice denied unless the justice is served with a proper interest. To me the prob will not be solved with a few strikes or Op Parakrams. We need to be planning a long term disintegration of Pakiland and future aquisition of the same. For that, the plans need to be elaborate and preparations long and steady. Its clear that these terror attacks are traps for us to get provoked and do some silly mistake.

PPS: BTW, I never understood why the talks are so highly rated. We suspended the talks after 26/11, what have we gained? What difference did it make to pukes? Now, we will start the talks, again what difference will it make? or is there something that we are missing? Becoz pukes keep insisting on talks everytime, GOI almost tries to use talks as a carrot, is there something that pukes gain by talks?

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 04 Jun 2009 11:27

krishnapremi wrote:CRamS,

I think there will be no repeat of 26/11.The red lines have been crossed.While we cannot annihilate porkistan we are strong enough to make everyone realise that enough is enough.

On what basis are you saying this? Why do you say there will be no repeat of 26/11? The same thing was said after parliament attack. I mean the scale and volume of terrorist perpetration by TSP against India is mind boggling; and after every attack, we say the same thing.

Let us not deride our ability to defend ourselves.

I am not so sure. This would lead to a discussion of Indian military's limitations. Better not to touch that one in a nationalist forum like this one.

The GOI must have reasoned that it is best to protect India and continue chai-biskoot sessions.This will frustrate the Anglo Saxons who would expect India to be outraged by Baki inaction on past atrocities.

I don't know about entire govt of India, but sorry, I don't trust MMS. In my books he is a trai... amd a USA/western puppet.

It is enough to make the most obtuse amirkhans realise that indian territory is inviolable.This is within our realm.

Once again what gives you the confidence to proclaim this? Just a thought experiment, but should USA decide to attack India, Iraq style, under the guise of protecting the "Daleeets" and "lower castes" and Muslims and Christians from the "evil Brahmins", do you think India as a whole will put up a united front against such an aggression? I am not so sure based on what I have been seeing past few years. But closer to reality, I am not sure anymore that anything is sacrsosanct. Indian public, being so divided, will support any aggresion if it is portrayed in benign terms. The only thing holding India together is a strong educated and beaurecratic elite; once they loose their will and grip on power, and Lalloos and Mayawathis hold the reigns, India is finished. At least to me, one man, one vote has dumped India. Perhpahs some other creative form of democracy, short of one man, one vote, might be better for India's survival

.

Porkis have a zillion more reasons to be frustrated-Kashmir,Afghanistan.There is no way Pakistan can ever regain their control.

I disagree. Once again, if India holds a dialouge under US/TSP/Kashmiri Muslim siege, what chance does India have? India does not have the b@lls anymore to say Kashmir is its integral part. Where do you get this confidence that Kashmir is not within TSP's grasp? TSP controls the ground situation as much as India does. Its a stalemate. No Kashmiri politician can proclaim his loyalty to India, recall even Omar Abdullah's cowardly sucking up to TSP, without fear of being shot dead by ISI/TSPA proxies. And again, the "impending super power" status will be invoked to convince Indians that giving up Kashmir is the way forward, and Indians like a bunch of brain-dead eunuchs will go along, except for "Hindu Taliban" like me.

In "time" Bakistan will implode.When Pakjabi cowards lose control to mullahs,then it is time to worry.But that will be a problem for amirkhans as well.

Wishful thinkiing. At the rate at which TSP is being propped up despite its terror against India, I suspect that it will be India that will be history first.

Sorry for the pessimism. But this news that MMS is willing to forget Mumbai and is ready to make love to his Paki lovers just got my goat.