India & Natural Disaster Management

chaanakya · Post by **chaanakya** » 25 Jun 2013 21:28

Well SwamyG , I checked all press releases given by CM relief fund.
There are mention of NaMo, Gahlot (Cheque by SisRam Ola) , Karanataka and Jayprakash Associate Ltd and there is a mention that other states have promised help

http://cm.uk.gov.in/upload/pressrelease ... se-859.pdf for 18/6/2013

I again checked Press Release till 25/6/2013 and I did not find mention of it.

Anyway

chaanakya · Post by **chaanakya** » 25 Jun 2013 21:33

Unconfirmed reports indicate that casualty may go higher than 10000 Many villages are yet to be touched by SAR operations. I hope such reports are way of the mark and wrong totally. Yet the Govt refusing help is not understandable. In tsunami, whoever came to help, Maharashtra and Gujrata comes to mind readily, were welcome. No one said help was not welcome. This man says help is not needed in so many words. If more copters were being provided , that could have been placed under Army control for better management.

Bade · Post by **Bade** » 25 Jun 2013 21:34

Chaanakya, thanks for the link. There was another one buried in that with 5 possible scenarios. Maybe a combination of a lot of them happened to make it worse.

http://blogs.agu.org/landslideblog/2013 ... kedarnath/

You may want to put in Disaster thread if not there already.

Bade · Post by **Bade** » 25 Jun 2013 21:38

That is looking south, inferred from the related bing image also in that link. This from ISRO. That looks too steep. Nothing could have prevented this from happening. Early warning could have got people out of there before the rains. Regular geological surveys of valley needs to be done before letting large numbers of people in perhaps, even though the idea runs at odds with people's beliefs.

Murugan · Post by **Murugan** » 25 Jun 2013 21:42

Further to the post above on Mussoorie afforestation saga

After successful completion of the project at Mussoorie the Unit took up the ecological reconstruction project of the Aglar Watershed. The Aglar river is one of the main tributaries of river Yamuna. The Aglar Watershed Project is in the catchment area to the north of the river and across the Mussoorie ridge. These hill tracts are barren and bare due to the incessant felling of trees and fodder collection. Being in the rain shadow area these hill tracts are on the southern slope and get scanty rainfall. The Unit has taken up the challenging an difficult task with dedication and sincerity. So far the unit has planted 35 lakh saplings in 4,400 hectares of land. It has another 9 years to complete the project. It is estimated that 30 lakh saplings would be planted in an area of 4,000 hectares of the ridge behind Mussoorie during the remaining period.

The survival rate of tree plantation by Eco Task Force is higher than any government agency/non-government agency engaged in the plantation work. During the year 2000-2001 the survival rate was 75 per cent and it has not fallen below 70 per cent even in drought-affected years. The care and protection of the plantation is a continuous process spread over a period of three years, which is sufficient enough for the saplings to grow into healthy trees.

Involving People

In addition to plantation, the Unit is actively engaged in executing mass awareness programmes in its project area since it was felt that this was the only way to sustain the preservation momentum in the long run. It has been getting willing and voluntary co-operation from the local residents for protection of its plantation. The inhabitants of the area have been motivated to grow fruit bearing trees also. As a result, some clusters of villages now have fruit gardens. The residents who had been solely dependent on agriculture so far have now taken to horticulture at the instance of the members of the Eco Task Force operating in the area.(PIB Feature)

Theo_Fidel · Post by **Theo_Fidel** » 25 Jun 2013 21:50

Chaanakya,

Uttarakhand split from UP after some bad blood and much shouting.
Undoubtedly the skin is still raw between these two….

Bade saar,

Thanx for the image. The valley is a classic U-shaped glacier sculpted feature.
-------------------------
All our high interest areas suffer from the herd mentality human tide. The marina beach in Chennai is essentially unusable during holidays. I could not even get half way to the water. There was 200 foot thick swarm at the waters edge.
There is probably 1000+ valleys folks could go to but access is limited to the few dozen with roads. 100,000 pilgrims does not seem excessive for a state bigger than Switzerland, yet they seem to be funneled into small catch basins that magnify casualties.

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 25 Jun 2013 22:36

Chaankaya:
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/spee ... 742806.cms
http://www.hindustantimes.com/India-new ... 79359.aspx

I first saw that news in NDTV. They were listing the different amounts from different states. And there are several news articles.

Bade · Post by **Bade** » 25 Jun 2013 22:54

This is a seven day rain average for the whole region. It is not much compared to south west coast overall.
http://trmm.gsfc.nasa.gov/trmm_rain/Eve ... rain_2.gif

Compare that to Jun 18th one. The color scales are same. Seems off the chart. But not limited to UK region alone also in the rain shadows to the north across the border in to Tibet with the same intensity.
http://blogs.agu.org/landslideblog/file ... RMM-1a.gif

BTW, the recently launched Megha-Tropique images should be scoured too, it is a TRMM replica in many ways and for tropical precip as its primary mission.

The SAR images from Indian/Israeli and Canadian SARSATs should also prove useful to see through clouds and ice cover to look for glacial melts.

Bade · Post by **Bade** » 25 Jun 2013 22:56

Initial link provided by Chaanakya in nukkad,
http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewto ... 0#p1475460

http://blogs.agu.org/landslideblog/2013 ... high-cost/

This is a seven day rain average for the whole region. It is not much compared to south west coast overall.

http://trmm.gsfc.nasa.gov/publications_ ... ain_2.html

Compare that to Jun 18th one. The color scales are same. Seems off the chart. But not limited to UK region alone also in the rain shadows to the north across the border in to Tibet with the same intensity.
http://blogs.agu.org/landslideblog/file ... RMM-1a.gif

BTW, the recently launched Megha-Tropique images should be sourced too, it is a TRMM replica in many ways and for tropical precip as its primary mission.

The SAR images from Indian/Israeli and Canadian SARSATs should also prove useful to see through clouds and ice cover to look for glacial melts.

Bade · Post by **Bade** » 25 Jun 2013 23:13

Good read with lots of analysis.

http://blogs.agu.org/landslideblog/2013 ... kedarnath/

http://blogs.agu.org/landslideblog/2013 ... kedarnath/

chaanakya · Post by **chaanakya** » 26 Jun 2013 00:49

Bade Garu, I am sure we will see some scholarly research in the field. Megha Tropiques is an important development but I am dismayed to note that ISRO has failed to provide advance warning/ information on such event. Generally we get flash priority messages rleaued to District HQ through NDMA and local IMD. It seems there was some warning from IMD to DC Rudraprayag but somehow he could not gauge the severity of the situation Perhaps he did not tour the area to get first hand info.

Bade · Post by **Bade** » 26 Jun 2013 01:07

Chaanakya, me too. When I was following the news early on in the week, I was literally mad at IMD even more than the UK govt machinery that people have directed their ire at here. With all the re-organization under a new ministry of the earth sciences and good things promised as a result, nothing has changed in the operational world of forecasting and mitigation in India.

ISRO too needs to double up. If NASA can do it and some bloggers why can't ISRO with all the money. MT has been in orbit for a while, albeit under cal/val now. But raw imagery must exist. Why is SAC Ahmedabad not taking a leadership role. They are the premier institution within ISRO for this kind of work.

shaardula · Post by **shaardula** » 26 Jun 2013 01:14

what are megha tropiques?

nachiket · Post by **nachiket** » 26 Jun 2013 01:22

shaardula wrote:what are megha tropiques?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Megha-Tropiques

It is an Indo-French satellite launched in 2011 to study the climate.

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 26 Jun 2013 01:51

Murugan wrote:During mumbai deluge, my employer did the same thing. They supplied utensils to start cooking, four sets of dishes/vati/spoons/glasses, chorsa (solapur chaddars), grains, pulses and other necessary masal that can at least last for 15 days. Once you do this, relief provider can move ahead and dont have to revisit the places often.

Murugan ji, can you shed some light on Jamwal ji's objection that no dry firewood is available for cooking food? Are they supplying Kerosene also? Gas cylinders? Both being hazardous chemicals would add extra constraints on logistics. Thanks.

deepan gill · Post by **deepan gill** » 26 Jun 2013 02:10

I cant find a thread for recent flooding in India. Is this the correct thread or is there a separate thread? Thx in advance

Bade · Post by **Bade** » 26 Jun 2013 02:25

go to nukkad for day to day news clippings too for now.

Bade · Post by **Bade** » 26 Jun 2013 02:43

It is almost 2 years since launch, so good data must be available. Folks can get your local institutions in the area to take up these activities as part of the contribution to the local community. MT-sat is good and will be part of a global constellation which when in place will have data with 2-3 hr gaps only. Here is an example of institutions outside of ISRO contributing. But all the new IITs in the region, Mandi, Roorkee, Ropar should actively groom groups to take such relevant areas as thrust areas. Don't leave it to ISRO alone, at least in the usage of the data from various ISRO launches.

http://meghatropiques.ipsl.polytechniqu ... or-gv.html

Theo_Fidel · Post by **Theo_Fidel** » 26 Jun 2013 03:34

Is there a data embargo for the principal investigators. This has been a cause of heartburn recently in other areas.

SriKumar · Post by **SriKumar** » 26 Jun 2013 04:35

3D Visualisation of Kedarnath » Satellite data from RISAT 1 and Cartosat of June 18, 2013
Post-disaster animation. No audio.

http://bhuvan.nrsc.gov.in/updates/videos/tour.html

Bade · Post by **Bade** » 26 Jun 2013 04:37

Usually it is there, but ISRO will have some sort of access. I am not sure what the data agreement is between ISRO and CNES on this mission. But I am surprised to see very little info in public domain. But that has been true of many ISRO missions. Counting pennies is a useless policy with regard to remote sensing data. I do not understand why India is following this policy which has caused bad blood in the larger community. Certain types of data are not free, like SAR worldwide. But when other agencies make some free the equivalent ones can be made free or else less and less people will end up using ISRO data outside of India. Well, even within India I am told it is easier to download US missions data

rather than fill forms in triplicate.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 26 Jun 2013 04:48

It is important to keep distance from river banks from living constructions and buildings. An immediate ordinance is required to ban all settlements on the bank, with a mandatory 200ft boundary limits.

Murugan · Post by **Murugan** » 26 Jun 2013 09:44

Murugan ji, can you shed some light on Jamwal ji's objection that no dry firewood is available for cooking food? Are they supplying Kerosene also? Gas cylinders? Both being hazardous chemicals would add extra constraints on logistics. Thanks.

Matrimc-ji

In such situation, Diesel Chulhas are the best option. Kerosene / LPG are difficult to transport, may be, but Diesel can be transported easily. Can also be taken out from diesel vehicles for emergency cooking.

IOC is producing LPG on war footing and supply chain is formed to make it reach wherever necessary.

1) Generally, when homes are destroyed, people start sanja chulha combined community kitchens to make maximum use of resources.

2) Diesel chulhas are very efficient and I am sure the authorities and organizations involved are using diesel chulhas.

There are hundred of dealer/manufacturers of diesel stoves.

Murugan · Post by **Murugan** » 26 Jun 2013 09:46

Quote:
Murugan ji, can you shed some light on Jamwal ji's objection that no dry firewood is available for cooking food? Are they supplying Kerosene also? Gas cylinders? Both being hazardous chemicals would add extra constraints on logistics. Thanks.[/quote]

Matrimc-ji

In such situation, Diesel Chulhas are the best option. Kerosene / LPG are difficult to transport, may be, but Diesel can be transported easily. Can also be taken out from diesel vehicles for emergency cooking.

IOC is producing LPG on war footing and supply chain is formed to make it reach wherever necessary.

1) Generally, when homes are destroyed, people start sanja chulha combined community kitchens to make maximum use of resources.

2) Diesel chulhas are very efficient and I am sure the authorities and organizations involved are using diesel chulhas.

There are hundred of dealer/manufacturers of diesel stoves.

jamwal · Post by **jamwal** » 26 Jun 2013 10:42

matrimc wrote:
Murugan ji, can you shed some light on Jamwal ji's objection that no dry firewood is available for cooking food? Are they supplying Kerosene also? Gas cylinders? Both being hazardous chemicals would add extra constraints on logistics. Thanks.

It's not addressed to me, but let me explain my point.
My point about lack of firewood is based on personal experience as well as common sense. It's been raining enough to cause floods. Where'd you find dry wood ? Even without floods, greenery covered mountains receive rains almost daily. In order to find dry wood for fuel, people collect bunch of it and let it dry in shelters. It is not possible for people without a roof on their heads to collect and burn firewood. For people on the move, it's next to impossible
Sending gas/kerosene/diesel stoves is one idea, but it adds a lot to the logistics chain. It's also very expensive. A simple propane gas burner with a small portable cylinder which can burn for 40-45 minutes costs more than Rs 1500. For a group of people, you need bigger burners which cost even more. You also need a lot more fuel the higher you get.
SiaK's statement was nothing more than posting just for the sake of it. People stuck in such situations would rather have something that they can eat without cooking rather than his SDRE vitamin enriched gourmet food that needs heating, adding water and what not. To be fair, you can provide this kind of food in relief camps, but for people who are waiting to be evacuated it makes more sense to have ready to eat packaged food.

BTW, In high altitudes, people use diesel instead of kerosene in those old kerosene stoves.I think some minor modifications are required, but it works.

Pliss not to add jii to my name

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 26 Jun 2013 10:45

wood being loaded onto helicopter for mass cremation in upstream spots ... it is delayed by bad weather...bodies have decomposed badly and cannot be moved down...they will be cremated in-place.
http://im.rediff.com/news/2013/jun/25rescue2.jpg

for people in india, India TV channel is carrying actual news reports from various places in region. other hindi channels are also active.
they showed women who worked in large kitchens to feed pilgrims tying wood together for taking in trucks upto the helipads. they said hadnt done such sad work earlier, but they were doing it because the dead were also their own countrymen and hoped rest of country would contribute to rebuilding the region.

avoid the turd english channels...all are just a nightly shoutfest over who is more political, more sickular, point scoring with no real news.

krishnan · Post by **krishnan** » 26 Jun 2013 11:36

"You all have done us proud, for you gave your life in service of your countrymen without discretion of colour, cast, creed and religion - more importantly, in their hour of need. You are now a guiding beacon in our deeds. Your selfless sacrifice in Operation Rahat is monumental and just remembering it would be more than any pilgrimage to us.''

IAF tribute to the souls who died in the helo crash

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 26 Jun 2013 11:39

^^Whose quote is that? Source pliss.

Murugan · Post by **Murugan** » 26 Jun 2013 12:53

jamwal gaaru

I posted earlier, if Bharatiya Sena Jawans could fight and survive Kargil war on Gud and Chana or things made out of it why not disaster affected people. Shing (ground nut) and gud is also good combination. Chikkis made out of these items will also give good energy, these items are available every where in India, very convenient to transport and last long. Chocolates/Sweets with Gud are the best option for survival on high altitude. It helps in providing required energy, less weight to carry, high calory and help in maintaining orientation on high altitude.

Once at about 2.5 - 3K meters, we start losing appetite and sleep. Packaged food like puri-sabji or MTR type will not help in this situation.

During Kutch earthquake, a gujarati sweet called Gud Papadi (made of wheat flour and jaggery and lots of GHEE) spoken as Gozh (tamil zh) Papadi in local parlance was made in every corner of gujarat and transported to Kutch. This gol papadi is amazing food. It fills up stomach, lotsa energy and calorie in just 100 gram chunk. This is even recommended for expecting mothers as essential snacks. Thus not at all harmful.

We have to find local solution most suitable for UK climate and people's diet habit and general high calorie snacks for people stranded over there.

Murugan · Post by **Murugan** » 26 Jun 2013 12:59

X Posted from Nukkad thread

If Bharatiya Sena Jawans could fight and survive Kargil war on Gud and Chana or things made out of it why not disaster affected people. Shing (ground nut) and gud is also a good combination. Chikkis made out of these items will also give good energy. These are easily available everywhere in India, very convenient to transport and last long. Chocolates/Sweets with Gud are the best options for survival on high altitude. It helps in providing required energy, high calorie and help in maintaining orientation on high altitude + less weight to handle.

Once at about 2.5 - 3K meters, we start losing appetite, sleep and disorientation is common. Packaged food like puri-sabji or MTR type will not help in this situation.

During Kutch earthquake, a gujarati sweet called Gud Papadi (made of wheat flour and jaggery and lots of GHEE) spoken as Gozh (tamil zh) Papadi in local parlance was made in every corner of gujarat and transported to Kutch. This gol papadi is amazing food. It fills up stomach, lotsa energy/calorie in just 100 gram of chunk. This is even recommended for expecting mothers as essential snacks. Thus not at all harmful.

We have to find local solution most suitable for UK climate and people's diet habit and general high calorie snacks for people stranded over there.

But nothing can beat garam dal + chaaval and a couple of rotis.

Murugan · Post by **Murugan** » 26 Jun 2013 13:21

Best solutions for disaster relief can be successful only if local climate, diets and logistic chains kept in mind.

Small 5t, 10t trucks hired by Ramdev went in interior of Uttarakhand. 20t, LPs long chassis truck with loads of relief material is being sent back by Uttarakhand admin.

In relief works, more and more locals should be trained, motivated and employed. Ultimately, local only has the best understanding of ground reality. This should be a norm everywhere in Bharat.

Murugan · Post by **Murugan** » 26 Jun 2013 13:42

What do soldiers eat as they fight in these glacial wastes? Their 20 kg backpack carries, apart from ammunition and hand grenades, survival rations of gur chana (jaggery and gram) and mathri (a savoury). Their supplies are replenished once in three weeks by the link parties. It's called a "glacier ration", light in weight but high in calories. "You consume the minimum, so there's no need to defecate for three or four days; also you never know when you will get the next replenishment" says a para commando. Water? Melted snow. Adds a major of 1 Bihar: "Getting aloo-puris once in a while up there is like a luxury".

krishnan · Post by **krishnan** » 26 Jun 2013 15:41

15:38 U'khand govt offers paltry Rs 5000 aid to farmers whose fields were washed away: Uttarakhand Chief Minister Vijay Bahuguna today said the state government will provide "special economic package" to people whose properties have been destroyed in flash floods in Kedarnath area.

"Even though there is no provision, we will provide a special economic package for the properties that have been destroyed in the flash floods in Kedarnath Valley," he told a press conference.

On relief assistance to be provided to farmers, Bahuguna said the state will provide Rs 5,000 instead of Rs 200 to farmers whose fields have been washed away by floods. The Chief Minister said a total of 15 choppers have been hired by the state government and they have been deployed with the affected districts to provide relief material to villages cut-off due to the rains.

krishnan · Post by **krishnan** » 26 Jun 2013 15:42

Let us see if other places learn from this....i doubt we will

Sachin · Post by **Sachin** » 26 Jun 2013 16:17

Radio hams help in Indian floods
In this catastrophic incident I guess this is still not sufficient. Really waiting for more details on the parallel communication networks setup. The police VHF & HF nets would now be stretched to the maximum. I dont know if Army Signals are involved. For folks having good radio sets try tuning into 7073Mhz (Lower Side Band) or 14160 Mhz (Upper Side Band). At Bangalore the reception is very feeble. Hyderabad seems to have a better reach.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 26 Jun 2013 17:53

since none is heeding ramana's (brain-child of nukkad thread) call, i am going to join the bandwagon :

browne says, it could be either fault - technical related or weather related.
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 778242.cms

Murugan · Post by **Murugan** » 26 Jun 2013 18:35

Indian Army launches a website (there are minor glitches, but it is only couple of days old) for up to date info on rescue work and other vital info

http://www.suryahopes.in/

Our Army always walk an extra mile!

Pranam Namaskar Jai Hind Vande Mataram

krishnan · Post by **krishnan** » 26 Jun 2013 19:05

18:47 TDP-Cong come to blows at Dehradun airport over flying rescued home: While the armed forces continue with their rescue operations relentlessly, politicians spar at the Dehradun airport to claim credit over who will fly rescued pilgrims home.

TV images show TDP's Ramesh Rathod and Congress politician V Hanumantha Rao coming to blows at the Jolly Grant airport in Dehradun. Boarding passes of the pilgrims were apparently torn up. Rathod and Rao trade charges on different TV channels. Worse, Rathod says nothing is being done for the pilgrims by the armed forces for the people from his state. "Hanumantha Rao started abusing me and used unparliamentary language," says Rathod. He refuses to admit he made a mistake. In fact, TDP leader Chandrababu Naidu, who was at the scene, watched the fight and did not bother to stop the two.

Naidu has now apologised for the squabble but blames the Congress.

chaanakya · Post by **chaanakya** » 26 Jun 2013 19:29

Murugan wrote:Best solutions for disaster relief can be successful only if local climate, diets and logistic chains kept in mind .

NDMA guidelines provide for exactly the same prescription. And yes they try to provide Chawal dhal roti poori aloo ki sabji besides trying to take care of nutritional deficiencies of stranded people.

Such relief is available as immediate relief till cooking facilities are made available and people can cook.

LGP is indeed transported, sorry for propane, not used here. Kerosene is provided and not diesal which is stocked for transport. Kerosene is also used in conjunction with wood, wet of otherwise to build fire.

There is drill for all these and even local contractors are identified who can supply during disaster and generally adequate stocks are stored prior to disaster for food, essential supplies , medicine , Bleaching Power, iodine etc. Everyone knows what they have to do.

After immediate relief, SAR is undertaken and then evacuation. Thereafter , treatment of ill, infirm and old . Reconstruction starts with setting up with communication and road network.

Uttarakhand does not seem to have taken any measures whatsoever. It was caught napping and then slipping downhill.

If drills were taken seriously , it could have been mitigated. I just wonder why town was not evacuated the night before, it had about 5000 people.

Hope they learn their lessons now.

chaanakya · Post by **chaanakya** » 26 Jun 2013 19:31

chaanakya wrote:This is the precipitation map of the Rea. Notice the severe precipitation in and around the Chardham areas.

http://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/Natura ... p?id=81450

I strongly think that Chorabari /Gandhi sarovar failure with glacial burst could be the main reson. The lake burst in not unknown in Himalayan regions and cloud burst could have caused it. But picture will be clear after sometime when clud cover is not there. Govt has already surveyed the area and taken photos of damages and sure they would be examining it to come to some conclusion.

See Kedar as it was some 50 years ago.
http://blogs.agu.org/landslideblog/2013 ... tarakhand/

xposting.