Boston Bombing Followup Thread

The Strategic Issues & International Relations Forum is a venue to discuss issues pertaining to India's security environment, her strategic outlook on global affairs and as well as the effect of international relations in the Indian Subcontinent. We request members to kindly stay within the mandate of this forum and keep their exchanges of views, on a civilised level, however vehemently any disagreement may be felt. All feedback regarding forum usage may be sent to the moderators using the Feedback Form or by clicking the Report Post Icon in any objectionable post for proper action. Please note that the views expressed by the Members and Moderators on these discussion boards are that of the individuals only and do not reflect the official policy or view of the Bharat-Rakshak.com Website. Copyright Violation is strictly prohibited and may result in revocation of your posting rights - please read the FAQ for full details. Users must also abide by the Forum Guidelines at all times.
Rajiv Lather
BRFite
Posts: 287
Joined: 20 Sep 1999 11:31
Location: Karnal, Haryana, India

Re: Boston Bombing Followup Thread

Post by Rajiv Lather »

Singha wrote:...FBI agents are always on islamist bulletin boards showing AoA, mashallah death to america and so on...hoping to honeytrap people

maybe these two went from club player to IPL T20 unexpectedly.
This is not my point. Such people are deliberately selected and given asylum in the United States and Great Britain. They are recruited not to help agencies like FBI to infiltrate the jihadi groups, but to help agencies like CIA to create and train terrorists to destabilize countries and regimes.

USSR (Afghanistan), Russia (Chechnya and Dagestan), India (Kashmir). More recently Libya and Egypt and presently Syria.

Remember my words, someday the truth will come out as to why there was a long delay in the release of the photographs and video by the FBI.

Not everything goes according to plans.
Last edited by Rajiv Lather on 20 Apr 2013 23:45, edited 1 time in total.
Singha
BRF Oldie
Posts: 66589
Joined: 13 Aug 2004 19:42
Location: the grasshopper lies heavy

Re: Boston Bombing Followup Thread

Post by Singha »

khan media has quickly fallen in line and nobody is asking how he is , when he will be released or camping outside the hospital attempting get some official comments.

if the FBI was in process of honeytrapping them or trying to run them as useful assets for later, one would be sure lots of files are being buried now :D
Singha
BRF Oldie
Posts: 66589
Joined: 13 Aug 2004 19:42
Location: the grasshopper lies heavy

Re: Boston Bombing Followup Thread

Post by Singha »

how does the guy climbing off the boat on own steam gel with his pic 30 mins later?
Image

a bunch of people would need to kick him to a inch of his life to attain this miraculous transformation imo
SaiK
BRF Oldie
Posts: 36427
Joined: 29 Oct 2003 12:31
Location: NowHere

Re: Boston Bombing Followup Thread

Post by SaiK »

sure.. cause, once he goes to hushpathaal and under some jurisdiction, then neither the afsars can't kick his butts nor the fbi. so, they have what you call the cop syndrome done. it happens all over the world.
Singha
BRF Oldie
Posts: 66589
Joined: 13 Aug 2004 19:42
Location: the grasshopper lies heavy

Re: Boston Bombing Followup Thread

Post by Singha »

imo the cloud based jihad with australia or saudi based preachers able to reach into internet and gather trans national followers has reached a tipping point. its the end of the beginning and the birth pangs of the american mujahideen or the uk mujahideen. you will see naturalized or born american kids join the fight, use their citizenship to pass below radar and do damage rather than a special squad from abroad like the 20 in 9/11.

nobody can live in a bubble now and everywhere is the frontline.
SaiK
BRF Oldie
Posts: 36427
Joined: 29 Oct 2003 12:31
Location: NowHere

Re: Boston Bombing Followup Thread

Post by SaiK »

so, you are saying the jihadics have learned how to assimilate... especially the born again strategy. perhaps they will call themselves "born again jihadics".
Anujan
Forum Moderator
Posts: 7902
Joined: 27 May 2007 03:55

Re: Boston Bombing Followup Thread

Post by Anujan »

Not so sure about that. Local terrorist cell needs apologists and an infrastructure -- Mosques, regular trips abroad for jobs etc, political support, media support to somehow portray it as "natural reaction against injustice". All these are in massa but nowhere near how much we have in desh.
SwamyG
BRF Oldie
Posts: 16271
Joined: 11 Apr 2007 09:22

Re: Boston Bombing Followup Thread

Post by SwamyG »

Singha wrote:seems like younger bro was able to climb out of the boat on his own per this pic. so how come he is in critical condition on arrival in hospital? maybe they thrashed him real good on the ride in the ambulance. pic does not indicate a critically wounded guy from loss of blood. or maybe they wanted him in ICU for truth serum sessions rather than sitting under judicial custody in lockup under media glare...being listed in critical condition inside a hospital in lockdown mode automatically gives them more time and room to pump him full of serum and suspend his rights as well.
Heard it on CNN, that his Miranda Rights were not read. And 'experts' think it is not going to be any problem. He is a naturalized citizen, so there could be complications. Whatever be it, the differences between ideologies and opinions, and the tough questions are not going to come out, in the MSM for sometime. Internet will always have some blogger or activist questioning, but aam Joe or Jane is not going to know much about those things. Like you earlier opined, probably the European magazines might ask tough questions.

I had heard a joke some time back - 'What is the difference between a Soviet and American. The Soviet knows he is being brainwashed...".
Anujan
Forum Moderator
Posts: 7902
Joined: 27 May 2007 03:55

Re: Boston Bombing Followup Thread

Post by Anujan »

Not reading miranda rights is the height of stupidity and is guaranteed to drag the case on appeal after appeal. On top of that it would provide fodder for right wing nutcases to claim it is a Zionist conspiracy Obama conspiracy whatever.

It benefits nobody.
Theo_Fidel

Re: Boston Bombing Followup Thread

Post by Theo_Fidel »

This is still the boston bomb followup thread?? If not let me know where it is. For a while there one was confused....
Theo_Fidel

Re: Boston Bombing Followup Thread

Post by Theo_Fidel »

The Miranda warning is only for self incrimination. It is very limited unlike what the TV shows proclaim. The police will be careful not to use that evidence against him. That is all.
Anujan
Forum Moderator
Posts: 7902
Joined: 27 May 2007 03:55

Re: Boston Bombing Followup Thread

Post by Anujan »

Yes but why not read it to the fellow in the first place. There are numerous instances where evidence has been thrown out en masse. For example if I torture you, gather evidence and use that evidence to blackmail you to get more evidence, the entire set of evidence is considered to be tainted, obtained illegally and thrown out.

Fellow will simply claim they tricked him to self incriminate and used it to gather rest of the evidence.
SaiK
BRF Oldie
Posts: 36427
Joined: 29 Oct 2003 12:31
Location: NowHere

Re: Boston Bombing Followup Thread

Post by SaiK »

SwamyG wrote:I had heard a joke some time back - 'What is the difference between a Soviet and American. The Soviet knows he is being brainwashed...".
Similar sounding one for the difference between a Consultant and a Terrorist. One can negotiate with terrorists..
ramana
Forum Moderator
Posts: 60291
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: Boston Bombing Followup Thread

Post by ramana »

Lots of post event thoughts in no particular order:

- The maximum response to the Boston Bombing response with multiple agencies and forces is a very un-affordable measure. A few more like this and US will find themselves in high cost Iraq situation where they were spending themselves out of economy.
- For example in Iraq it was the insurgency to US occupation that had the high costs.
- Islamists will be tempted to carry their jihad into US as the heartland for the their battle with West.
- Shutting down entire city will lead to copycat attacks by Islamists emboldened after 2014 draw down.
- A post action review needs to be done to see how effective all those resources marshaled were.
- New urban legends will rise in the ummah of how two people held so many at bay.
- Its really bad for Europe that the Chechens are getting Islamised. From many angles.
- How US handles this case will lead have impact on future radicalization.
- After the WTC came down a lot of civil liberties are in abeyance. Now the ghost Al Awalki is coming home. This will cause a legal crisis.
ramana
Forum Moderator
Posts: 60291
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: Boston Bombing Followup Thread

Post by ramana »

Anujan wrote:Yes but why not read it to the fellow in the first place. There are numerous instances where evidence has been thrown out en masse. For example if I torture you, gather evidence and use that evidence to blackmail you to get more evidence, the entire set of evidence is considered to be tainted, obtained illegally and thrown out.

Fellow will simply claim they tricked him to self incriminate and used it to gather rest of the evidence.

On CNN two lawyers a civil rights and another criminal defence were on and both agreed that Miranda should be read. Apparently 'public safety' exception is being invoked from highest quarters. The two guys think if it can still be satisfied and the due process followed.
Apparently the issue is to find further links and extent of radicalization.
CNN says a big team of interrogators are awaiting the patient.

If some one wants try to read the Waterton Chief's interview of the Friday night. It also has details of injuries sustained by the suspect that prompted being listed as serious.
Vayutuvan
BRF Oldie
Posts: 13885
Joined: 20 Jun 2011 04:36

Re: Boston Bombing Followup Thread

Post by Vayutuvan »

Ramana garu, pranam. Nice list there to ruminate on and requiring deeper analysis.
SaiK
BRF Oldie
Posts: 36427
Joined: 29 Oct 2003 12:31
Location: NowHere

Re: Boston Bombing Followup Thread

Post by SaiK »

Yup.. it can lead to some very irritated state of democracy status and freedom.. for example, flight travel is not anymore fun. further, terror measures are now in terrorists hands for them to take controls of things.. even from remote., they can bring down an entire city.. for example, a blast in factory especially in a crowded stadium or a public event, or even an utility company like water, electricity can send the whole of US to dark ages. The larger section of the country is simply not habitable during 6 months of winter times.. more risk, more expenses., and can weaken USA power status.. they are already cutting down on global policing, and this is exactly what the terrorists wants.. pull out of afpak region, etc..
harbans
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4883
Joined: 29 Sep 2007 05:01
Location: Dehradun

Re: Boston Bombing Followup Thread

Post by harbans »

Tell you what..terrorists and planners will be looking at Waco/ Ammonia plants around with a lot more interest than Boston!
Rudradev
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4326
Joined: 06 Apr 2003 12:31

Re: Boston Bombing Followup Thread

Post by Rudradev »

Murderers and worse have got off scot free because they weren't read their Miranda Rights at the time of arrest. Every juniormost police officer in the US has this drilled into him- its a HUGE deal.

I cant imagine that the failure to read Tsarnayev his Miranda Rights could be anything but the groundwork for a deliberate loophole to get him out of the ordinary criminal justce system. No cop is that unprofessional, least of all the highly trained SWAT types on this scene. Seems to confirm that Tsarnayevs were Headley type assets who went bad in the grooming.
saip
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4392
Joined: 17 Jan 2003 12:31
Location: USA

Re: Boston Bombing Followup Thread

Post by saip »

Theo_Fidel wrote:The Miranda warning is only for self incrimination. It is very limited unlike what the TV shows proclaim. The police will be careful not to use that evidence against him. That is all.
Your are correct. Miranda rights or no miranda rights they can always use evidence gathered before his arrest. Like his shooting at the officers, killing the MIT officer say if they find the gun used on his person, the video of him dropping the bag, the 7/11 robbery, the ATM withdrawal etc. They have so much evidence they are not worried about not being able to convict him.

BTW, in India there is no concept of Miranda rights because they are enshrined in the Evidence act (thanks to the British) anything said to a police officer is in admissible in evidence.

Here is what happened to Mr Miranda:
An Ironic Ending for Ernesto Miranda

Ernesto Miranda was given a second trial at which his confession was not presented. Based on the evidence, Miranda was again convicted of kidnapping and rape. He was paroled from prison in 1972 having served 11 years.
SO the failure did not help him in the second trial

Link
Last edited by saip on 21 Apr 2013 01:43, edited 1 time in total.
Muppalla
BRF Oldie
Posts: 7115
Joined: 12 Jun 1999 11:31

Re: Boston Bombing Followup Thread

Post by Muppalla »

SwamyG wrote:Healthy criticisms is usually good; even ridicules/insults can be factors to reform & motivate societies and countries. However sometimes the critics and mockers need to be gently reminded. And then of course there is always the under current tension between maasa based BRFites vs Rest of BRFites. The desi BRFite every now and then take a jab at the BRFites living in maasa - they skirt around the bushes never hitting them directly :-).
it is a two way traffic these days with real policemen (bradmins) of the forum and self appointed policemen/preachers and also from a lot of other nuisance.
SaiK
BRF Oldie
Posts: 36427
Joined: 29 Oct 2003 12:31
Location: NowHere

Re: Boston Bombing Followup Thread

Post by SaiK »

You see, the first things the prez says always after an attack.. we are not weakened.. will come back with full strength. That is exactly the fear (keep the pressure on, somewhere here and there, and make them commit to set feared setup) the terrorists are chasing after. I am sure, this is a big lead for them. simply put, boston has exposed khan's weakness.
ramana
Forum Moderator
Posts: 60291
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: Boston Bombing Followup Thread

Post by ramana »

LA Times:

Immigration Refrom bill under threat

---------

Also Social Media exposed many strands of bigots in US and in India.
ramana
Forum Moderator
Posts: 60291
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: Boston Bombing Followup Thread

Post by ramana »

NBC News:

Lone Officer confronted the duo in Watertown

...Tsarnaev will be questioned by a federal team called the High Value Detainee Interrogation Group, which includes officials of the FBI, CIA, and Defense Department, an Obama administration official said. Under a special legal exception designed to protect public safety, he will not get a Miranda warning or be offered a lawyer for up to 48 hours....
WaPo has thoughtful article:

Boston Bombings expose limits of post 9/11 security
...
The Sept. 11, 2001, attacks led to a massive buildup of security to make the country safe. Subsequent plots, including attempts to conceal bombs in shoes and underwear, prompted hasty additions to that edifice, as officials sought to fill in cracks that terrorists might exploit.

The bombings at the Boston Marathon, carried out by two young men who immigrated to this country about a decade ago, are likely to yield a more frustrating security postmortem.


So far, there have been no calls for a major addition to the nation’s counterterrorism infrastructure, in part because it is difficult to identify a realistic measure that might have prevented the attacks.

Instead, U.S. officials and counterterrorism experts said that, while the bombings may lead to incremental changes in efforts to secure such events, they exposed the limits of the extraordinary defenses erected over the past 12 years.

The United States has spent billions of dollars on counterterrorism efforts during that span, an investment that has accomplished much of its aim. Overseas operations have pushed al-Qaeda to the brink of collapse, and domestic steps have dramatically reduced the country’s exposure to an attack of the scale and sophistication of Sept. 11.

But the Boston bombings highlighted a lingering vulnerability that officials consider impractical, if not impossible, to eliminate. It centers on small-scale plots carried out by individuals who are unlikely to surface on federal radar. They rely on devices made from common ingredients like gunpowder, nails and a pressure cooker. They target public gatherings where security resources are stretched.

“There’s just no way to secure many large public events, and the kind of intrusive steps we would have to take are ones that no one would be willing to endure,” said Rep. Adam B. Schiff (D-Calif.), a former federal prosecutor and member of the House Intelligence Committee. “We’ve always known the limits of what we could do in a free society, and this week we saw those limits in all their horror.”

National security and civil rights analysts said the U.S. government’s response to the Boston bombings will depend on details that emerge from the ongoing investigation, specifically whether the brothers accused of carrying out the attacks had direct connections to a foreign terrorist organization, were inspired by the ideology of radical Islam or had other motivations.

The two men, Dzhokhar Tsarnaev and Tamerlan Tsarnaev, were immigrants who had been in the United States for roughly a decade. They were part of a family with ties to Chechnya, a volatile region where Muslim separatists have been engaged in a bloody campaign against the Russian government for decades.

If there are connections to Islamist militant groups, including help planning and carrying out the attack, the Obama administration could expand intelligence-gathering efforts overseas, as well as widen surveillance and screening measures in the United States. But such measures would likely be controversial and far from foolproof.
If, however, the Tsarnaev brothers carried out the bombings with no foreign assistance, the administration’s policy options may be more limited.

National security and legal experts note that the United States has endured violence committed with the kind of relatively small-size explosive devices used by the accused brothers for decades, attacks carried out by radical groups with ideologies that span the political spectrum.
Benjamin Wittes, a senior fellow at the Brookings Institution who tracks counterterrorism policy and law, said the administration would have to move carefully if it sought to expand surveillance in public spaces or increase monitoring of Muslim communities.

It’s a “scenario in which you are almost powerless in a policy matter,” Wittes said. “You obviously have to begin thinking about additional security at marathons and other events. But just as school shootings are really hard to prevent . . . I really don’t think there’s much more to do from a policy aspect.”

U.S. intelligence and law enforcement agencies track thousands of potential threats each year to major public gatherings, ranging from the president’s inauguration to football’s Super Bowl. Those events are regarded as easier to safeguard because spectators must pass through checkpoints before gaining entry to a controlled space.

The Boston Marathon, by contrast, is a snaking 26.2-mile course lined by open parks, sidewalks and buildings. The Boston Police Department conducted two bomb sweeps in advance of the race, but there was little to prevent two brothers from blending into the crowd with homemade devices in their backpacks.

“This is a type of target that is unrealistic to expect to be secured,” said Daniel Byman, a terrorism expert at Georgetown University and former CIA analyst. Protecting a single venue, Byman said, only means the list of remaining vulnerable sites is “infinity minus one.”

Efforts to protect such targets have been ramped up over the past decade, but the bulk of the security measures adopted after the Sept. 11 attacks have been aimed at guarding against more catastrophic scenarios.

New agencies, including the Department of Homeland Security and the National Counterterrorism Center, were established to identify threats, generate terrorism watch lists and mobilize resources. Vast areas of the nation’s infrastructure, including its shipping ports, have been shored up to prevent dangerous materials, such as radiological or chemical weapons, from slipping into the United States.

But security cannot be guaranteed in even the most heavily fortified areas, including aviation. Twice over the past 12 years, terrorists with ties to al-Qaeda have boarded airplanes with hidden explosives. Layers of airport security and surveillance failed to stop them. Both cases might have ended in disaster if the bombers hadn’t struggled to ignite their devices before being subdued by other passengers.

The Boston bombings were reminiscent of another recent near-miss, the failed attempt in 2010 by a Pakistani American to ignite a bomb hidden in a car in Times Square. Faisal Shahzad had lit the fuse on a device that also involved a pressure cooker. A nearby food vendor noticed smoke and alerted authorities, and Shahzad was apprehended after boarding a plane bound for Dubai.

Boston was far from defenseless as the marathon got underway. Among major U.S. cities, only New York and Washington have been under more stringent security since the Sept. 11 attacks.

Boston has used federal grants to help assemble a surveillance network that employs hundreds of cameras across the city and throughout its subways. Those cameras, along with images captured by private video systems and spectators’ cellphones, helped authorities identify the Tsarnaev brothers as suspects — but only after three people had been killed and more than 170 others injured.

Schiff said the bombings may trigger new debate over whether surveillance systems such as Boston’s should be expanded, whether spy agencies should focus more resources on regions such as Chechnya and whether the United States needs to examine how it integrates disaffected immigrants.

“We’ve had a lot of successes in degrading the ability of al-Qaeda to launch massive attacks, but we’ve had a proliferation of one-off, foreign-born plots and self-radicalized individuals,” Schiff said. Ultimately, he said, “we’re going to have to recognize a certain vulnerability, and adopt a determined view that we will go on as we have, taking prudent precautions, but not changing the way we live.”
The key issue of Islamist radicalism on the population is not being addressed. I think this duo being from Chechenya is a minor factor. Its the radicalization of disaffected young men from Islam and the availability of resources to carry out such attacks is the key underlying circumstances for this incident.
harbans
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4883
Joined: 29 Sep 2007 05:01
Location: Dehradun

Re: Boston Bombing Followup Thread

Post by harbans »

So much for the average Joe rep that the Czech Prez has to say this:
The Czech ambassador to the United States has put on record his alarm that during the hunt for the Boston Marathon bombing suspect so many Americans on social media appeared to confuse his own country - in central Europe - with Chechnya - a republic in south-west Russia.

As the identities of Chechen brothers Dzokhar and Tamerlan Tsarnaev - the suspects in Monday's attack which killed three and injured over 150 - filtered across the internet, many people tweeted that the pair were from the Czech Republic.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world ... 81341.html
Vayutuvan
BRF Oldie
Posts: 13885
Joined: 20 Jun 2011 04:36

Re: Boston Bombing Followup Thread

Post by Vayutuvan »

One thing that should be kept in mind is that US maintain sleeper cells all over the world and vice a versa. If US find out sleeper cells they would double them by hook or by crook. Since US would be a target for a large number of countries and terrorist groups and given the amount of money and resources US expends on surveilence, it is but natural that there would be several hundred such double agents who would be working for US out of which a few would spin out of control. Just the law of large numbers at work.
ramana
Forum Moderator
Posts: 60291
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: Boston Bombing Followup Thread

Post by ramana »

Some psychological analysis is needed as to why disgruntled/disaffected Muslim individuals resort to violence and claim to be doing it for Islamic glory. Note I did not include unsuccessful for even successful ones suddenly doff their veneer and jump into the fray.
harbans
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4883
Joined: 29 Sep 2007 05:01
Location: Dehradun

Re: Boston Bombing Followup Thread

Post by harbans »

Some psychological analysis is needed as to why disgruntled/disaffected Muslim individuals resort to violence and claim to be doing it for Islamic glory.
I am just curious, but do we really?
SaiK
BRF Oldie
Posts: 36427
Joined: 29 Oct 2003 12:31
Location: NowHere

Re: Boston Bombing Followup Thread

Post by SaiK »

Mostly, imho, the threshold matters.. and I think that was the case with these chechen bros...the resort backed by islamic education (which is unlike indic dharmic one) happens spontaneously to take up a murder and crusade mode to chart their desires to anti-social reactions. They did not have any options, as their mental abilities/based on the training and conditioning, helped only that much.. all those friends, school, yeah.. are fine, because their parents were there with them.. and now they are off.. these boys are left to themselves to control... perhaps, their upbringing has loop holes that never comes out.. islamic schools are the prime factor for most anti-social elements.
ramana
Forum Moderator
Posts: 60291
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: Boston Bombing Followup Thread

Post by ramana »

Anant, NRIs in US will have to come up with comprehensive measures to preclude a repeat of Reddit/Twitter fiasco. Please think of legal measures may be support a law that puts more responsibility on social media to avoid stereotyping and defamation of individuals. As the pot boils it will get worse. Eg google will retain the ill informed tweets etc for ages. And some idiot can go back and resurrect them for hate propaganda.
harbans
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4883
Joined: 29 Sep 2007 05:01
Location: Dehradun

Re: Boston Bombing Followup Thread

Post by harbans »

Frankly i think the FBI and US law enforcement agencies were using social media to get to the suspects. This was confirmed with reports that the Police hours after having splashed the 2 suspect photographs came to know their identity only after killing the elder brother. From his ID after he rolled over dead.
Satya_anveshi
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3532
Joined: 08 Jan 2007 02:37

Re: Boston Bombing Followup Thread

Post by Satya_anveshi »

- self deleted
Last edited by Satya_anveshi on 21 Apr 2013 03:05, edited 1 time in total.
krisna
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5881
Joined: 22 Dec 2008 06:36

Re: Boston Bombing Followup Thread

Post by krisna »

Economic costs
The boston "seige' costs upwards of 350 million/day.
Not counting the other costs. it may very well touch 1 billion in a short time.


considering the following,
1) sooper powel has had its hands in almost every conflict across the world directly or indirectly since ww2.
2) has not had much blow back from the countries/regions invovled mainly due to weak socioeconomic structures prevalent in those concerned regions.
3) except islam followers. they have some sort of fight back not entirely successful in terms of damage physically
4) sooper powel has shown extraordinary strenghts to fight back, loosing its own power indirectly. it has become enamoured of its own invincibility of its own making-
5) its own strenghts might become its own weakness
6) though islamic blow back has not been sucessful in physical damage it has scarred the aura of invicnibility (? manifest destiny) of sooper powel. It has created a huge drain on its economy, made a mockery of freedom in khanland.
Ironically khanland is the most policied state in the world equalling or worse than soviets at enormous cost.

many non khanates ridicule that usa took over 10 billion and 10 years to kill a dialysis dependent osama bin laden fooled by its own major non nato ally. It is like osama being at west point and white house does not know him.

due to its own etch and dee issues it will not accept any shortcomings on its own.

Only thing which will help it is the economy if its gets going.
pentaiah
BRFite
Posts: 1671
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Boston Bombing Followup Thread

Post by pentaiah »

Recall that a cop was killed and hence the treatment on capture.

This is going to be the point of Inflexion for all GOAT related actors and processes
Remember how the blind cleric was imported from Egypt to suit the war against USSR in afghan operations, and later he instigated the first attack on World Trade Center and the use of Paki CiA operator who killed people in Langley and was later captured in TSP

All this has empowered the radicals with active train from Culinery institute and ISI
The students aka Taliban, Jihadists Islamists have completely learned the techniques and are also armed to the teeth, now add to the list the libiyan rebels and Syrians who are being trined

Interesting times ahead, happy to have come back from Hawaii vacation

Liberty and freedoms will be impacted
And the Islamists are winning because it is taxing the very fundamental beliefs of a great society both in economic terms and as wells as core conceptual institutions and laws and morphing a new version of draconian democracy. Just one example, with so many public camera monitoring and the data collection through electronic and other media, we have arrived at The TRUE NAKED AMERICAN.
Last edited by pentaiah on 21 Apr 2013 02:55, edited 2 times in total.
Vayutuvan
BRF Oldie
Posts: 13885
Joined: 20 Jun 2011 04:36

Re: Boston Bombing Followup Thread

Post by Vayutuvan »

harbans wrote:Frankly i think the FBI and US law enforcement agencies were using social media to get to the suspects. This was confirmed with reports that the Police hours after having splashed the 2 suspect photographs came to know their identity only after killing the elder brother. From his ID after he rolled over dead.
Harbans ji, so you are saying that crowd-sourcing failed? I voiced that same thought in the now-locked original thread.
ramana
Forum Moderator
Posts: 60291
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: Boston Bombing Followup Thread

Post by ramana »

People sent me emails as to why I deleted posts that speculaed on the two joggers and banned anmol for his repeated posts.

We should aim for quality and not quantity.
ramana
Forum Moderator
Posts: 60291
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: Boston Bombing Followup Thread

Post by ramana »

Atlantic Monthly:

Falsely accused in Boston 3 Examples

As usual doesn't include the Reddit case.
harbans
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4883
Joined: 29 Sep 2007 05:01
Location: Dehradun

Re: Boston Bombing Followup Thread

Post by harbans »

Harbans ji, so you are saying that crowd-sourcing failed? I voiced that same thought in the now-locked original thread.
It failed completely in this instance! The pics were up for hours in Boston! These guys attended classes in the interim. Yet FBI and assorted folks could not pin the right names till the ID spilled out after the shoot out? That was Failure with a Capital F..! :)
SwamyG
BRF Oldie
Posts: 16271
Joined: 11 Apr 2007 09:22

Re: Boston Bombing Followup Thread

Post by SwamyG »

Muppalla wrote:
SwamyG wrote:Healthy criticisms is usually good; even ridicules/insults can be factors to reform & motivate societies and countries. However sometimes the critics and mockers need to be gently reminded. And then of course there is always the under current tension between maasa based BRFites vs Rest of BRFites. The desi BRFite every now and then take a jab at the BRFites living in maasa - they skirt around the bushes never hitting them directly :-).
it is a two way traffic these days with real policemen (bradmins) of the forum and self appointed policemen/preachers and also from a lot of other nuisance.
Ahh....the cliche "self-appointed" that is so often used to target individuals or groups with whom one does not agree. It used to be widely used against Hindu swamis, gurus. Primarily it came from the non-Hindu traditions that did not have the concept of self-realization and had only anointed religious leaders. Nobody anointed Buddha or Sankara....yet they voiced what they thought was right.

Coming back to a little more closer to these discussions. I was reading this dhaaga like anyone else, and poor "anmol" had to be banned. Why because at least six members disagreed with his posts and requested him to edit or stop doing what he was doing. And what was his crime? He shared what the social media was putting out there. As far as I know, he did not start the rumor - maybe it is just that I trust a BRFite to be not inimical to desi origin individual. I do not blame ramana garu, he had to take action after so many complaints. So were these complainers called self appointed policemen or preachers? Na.....they had the right to disagree with anmol and others. I double checked anmol's posts in BRF. I did not think he was trolling, and his past posts show him to be an eager user of social media, technology and a firm supporter of Modi. I did not read all his posts, so I might have omitted some crucial posts. The point is he was an eager poster who shared the information. He was gently cautioned by others, and he did correct one or two of his posts. But then there was almost an gang that descended upon him - the self appointed "Bharat Rakshaks"?

So he took the word from the social media and shared here. You must have read how many of us, posted tidbits from NY Post, Fox News ityadi. Which proved to be wrong. CNN was making mistakes. FOX was making mistakes.....and we were all sharing info we could find. A lot happened in this dhaaga, exposing once more the ugly under belly of humans.

Speaking one's mind in a courteous and civil manner, should not be construed as preaching. Well, we can accuse others of propaganda, paranoia, CTs and what no. Going back to our tradition, a little introspection and self-realization would do us all good and reduce the 'nuisance'. Until then time to keep hoping for 'pak hand'. So how many people now have expected, prayed, predicted and hoped in these dhaagas, now? And BRF was doing its own version of crowd-sourcing - it always does. Discussion forums have that characteristic. Nothing wrong, nothing right. Inherent nature.
SaiK
BRF Oldie
Posts: 36427
Joined: 29 Oct 2003 12:31
Location: NowHere

Re: Boston Bombing Followup Thread

Post by SaiK »

ramana, give anmol a chance to come back. i am sure, everyone makes mistakes and corrects. i think he will too.
Post Reply