Sunni-Shia relations, geopolitics and India

[SSridhar]

JEM, may be this link would be of help

http://www.thehindu.com/opinion/op-ed/t ... 134190.ece

[JE Menon]

^^^hmm...interesting. Not sure how that works, but I had a link that just did not show a single comment...

The one above does. Thanks.

[Rony]

As expected, the vibrations in Mosul are being felt in Lucknow.

Lucknow calm after sectarian clashes

The Uttar Pradesh capital was calm Saturday, two days after sectarian clashes took place after a prayer meeting over Iraq, officials said.

Both the Provincial Armed Constabulary (PAC) and the Rapid Action Force (RAF) have been deployed in the old city area after the clashes between Shia and Sunni groups over the Iraq issue.

Amid heavy deployment of police, shops opened Saturday and people went out to attend to their daily chores.

Condemning the clashes that took place in Old Lucknow late Thursday, both Shia and Sunni clerics appealed to the masses to keep calm and act wisely.

"The onus in on all groups and sects in the community to stay united and not allow others to take advantage of any differences," Sunni cleric Khalid Rashid Firangi Mahali told IANS.

Slamming the violence, Shia cleric Maulana Kalbe Sadiq said: "It is sad that young men from both sides reacted in such a way without either knowing the whole issue in Iraq or realising what their follies can lead to."

In a message, Shia cleric Maulana Kalbe Jawad, who is currently in Iran, exhorted people to stay calm and not to be swayed away by violence in Iraq.

"The need of the hour is to stay united and not to be carried away by tensions in Iraq," he told his followers.

The clashes erupted between the two groups in Sadatganj when a group protesting the killings of innocent people in Iraq was shouted down by members of another sect.

The situation worsened in no time, and both sides pelted stones at each other. Police said blanks were also fired.

A man was seriously wounded in the violence and was taken to a hospital, police said.

Shia Muslims in UP getting ready to fight Sunni Muslims in Iraq, 40 lakhs being offered to fight in Iraq

इराक संकटः आतंकियों से लड़ने के लिए इलाहबाद में हो रही है भर्ती, 40 लाख का पैकेज

[Singha]

in that new map of the ME above , it is interesting to note that like Cheen being the prime fire-starter in Sooth asia, the KSA escapes scot free from all these map redrawings through their ruthless suppression of internal Shia dissent in the eastern provinces as well as folks like bahrain doing the same.

[MN Kumar]

There was attack on a Ahmadiyya Mission House in Hyderabad in May. Surprised that I couldn't find this any main stream media.

Ahmadiyya Mission House in Hyderabad Attacked during Friday Prayers!

Below is the update with an FIR that details the attack:
Update: Ahmadiyya Mission House in Hyderabad Attacked during Friday Prayers!

[ramana]

in that new map of the ME above , it is interesting to note that like Cheen being the prime fire-starter in Sooth asia, the KSA escapes scot free from all these map redrawings through their ruthless suppression of internal Shia dissent in the eastern provinces as well as folks like bahrain doing the same.

GD, No one is stopping us from redrawing KSA and West Asia map.
Only our Macaulayite/Nehruvian inhibitions.

[Vikas]

^ Ramana Ji, I believe we neither have the resources nor the vision or the dog in ME fight except for stable supply and price of Oil. Redrawing maps require long term commitment and willing to put young men/women in harms way.
India has never redrawn map outside the subcontinent (Although there is always first time).

[Paul]

Ramana, I refer to nationalists as the Iraqi Baathists only and possibly the Turkish army in its present avatar as they were truely secular and even anti Islamist. Turkish army is turning Islamist too. Egyptian Army went Islamist during Sadat's time when he started getting Green certificate from MB to legitimize his rule. Mubarak was no different. Hence I would not prefer to them as nationalist (they along with Pakistani army are present day mamelukes.....descendents of Baybar who took up the sword to defend's Islam's H&D from the crusaders). Hope you see the distinction.


Secondly, I believe there is a triangle in Islam - Kabila Sardar , The army , and the Ulema ( Islamists). Usually the Ulema get together with the army to subvert the Sardar as will be the case in Pakistan, and the way it happened in Iran.

In Mughal India, the Sardar outflanked this potential alliance by bringing in the Rajputs and by Aurangzeb's time the Ulema had coopted the Army to edge out the Rajputs.

In SA, the Saudis have co-opted the wahabi ulema through a dyanastic alliance with Ibn Wahab's tribe and have managed to get the greenest of green certificate from them .

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhammad_ibn_Abd_al-Wahhab

Muhammad ibn ʿAbd al-Wahhab (Arabic: محمد بن عبد الوهاب‎; 1703 – 22 June 1792)[3] was an Arabian Islamic Salafi[citation needed] scholar and founder of the Islamic movement, or "mission" of "Wahhabism".[4] His pact with Muhammad bin Saud helped to establish the first Saudi state[5] and began a dynastic alliance and power-sharing arrangement between their families which continues to the present day in the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia.[6] The descendants of Ibn ʿAbd al-Wahhab, the Al ash-Sheikh, have historically led the ulama in the Saudi state,[7] dominating the state's clerical institutions.[8]

If ISIS or any other greener group comes to SA, Saudis will not have this dynastic alliance with them and hence are like ripe lamb for the slaughter.

In Pakistan, the Pakistan army 1 is propping up the JUD/LET as the ulema and gets the green certificate from them, but the TTP/LEJ are upsetting the equation as JUD is not overlty anti Shia. You have to be anti shia to be greenest green, Ottomans went to war with the safavids to get this qualify or the certificate and the saudis are doing the same now.

Thus the TTP/LEJ has the snob value will always be looked up as greenest green in the eyes of the common abdul. Once the TTP has full control over the Ulema, the army 1 loses the greenest green certificate and the nukes pass to the hands of the Army 2 (as they will be the ones to get greenest green certificate from the new Ulema).

Turkey is behind the curve and we have to see how the Ulema shapes up in the time to come. The change here will probably come from the army.

[ramana]

Glad you posted here.

Nationalists/Baathists are all Western terms of reference. Islam is a state and a nation held by a religion.

Your tri-patriate centers of power is very apt and was there during the Slave Dynasty in India too.

Shias challenege the very existence of Sunni ulema.
The sardars and army will switch sides.

The Sunni ulema survived when they coopted the Naqshbandi sufis and hence the Turks.

[UlanBatori]

Saw this newspaper article where Nut&Yahoo said to protests against his holocaust against Palestinians.

I talked to world leaders of US, UK, Japan, ...".

I was feeling mightly offended that he didn't include NaMo of BhartaVarsh, the Greats superpower of of them all.. until I read the next line.

"None of them would tolerate repeated, continuing attacks against their territory and people".

Oh,OK, never mind...
Kashmir 1947-present; East Bengal 1947-present, Arunachal 1962-present, Akshardham, Red Fort, 26/11... and today and every day...

[Samudragupta]

Iraq crisis: How Saudi Arabia helped Isis take over the north of the country

How far is Saudi Arabia complicit in the Isis takeover of much of northern Iraq, and is it stoking an escalating Sunni-Shia conflict across the Islamic world? Some time before 9/11, Prince Bandar bin Sultan, once the powerful Saudi ambassador in Washington and head of Saudi intelligence until a few months ago, had a revealing and ominous conversation with the head of the British Secret Intelligence Service, MI6, Sir Richard Dearlove. Prince Bandar told him: "The time is not far off in the Middle East, Richard, when it will be literally 'God help the Shia'. More than a billion Sunnis have simply had enough of them."

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/com ... 02312.html

[ShauryaT]

Second Round of Great Game Unfolding in Middle East

Whose War, is it Any Way? Russia is using Shia regimes as geographical pivots to assume control of the global strategic zone of oil deposits, and gaining access to the Arabian Sea and Mediterranean Sea, as a result is supporting Shia regimes (Iran, Syria and Hamas). Turbulence in Middle East benefits US more than any other nation. Turbulence in the Middle East is a leverage for US against Russia and China to keep these nations at a distance from West Asia and also to keep them at a low threshold of growth. In pursuance of their West Asia policy US is supporting the Sunni majority (Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, Turkey and Egypt). Russia and US are extending an olive branch to Shia and Sunni blocks, “the most interesting case is Egypt, where Russia has stepped in with prospects of arms sale when the U.S. has cut back on arms transfer to Egypt”.[vi] Objectives of Russia are clear, regain the strategic space in the Middle East and North Africa, explore markets for its weapons, gain access to the Persian Gulf and the Meditarranean Sea for the export of oil and gas and prevent an access to the US and its allies into Central Asian Republics. It is a huge charter, but Russia is pursuing to achieve this through Syria, Iran and Hezbollah. Will they be able to defeat the US design is a big question, but Russia is unlikely to make a strategic retreat from an area which offers an opportunity for control of strategic space, markets for its weapons and may also assist shrinking US influence in the region. Russia is working through Hezobullah, Syria and Iran, where as US is working through Saudi Arabia, Turkey, Israel, and the Sunni militia.

India should hitch its geo-political cards with the Shia nations. It will come with Russian backing. Do this before China gets in bed with them.

[ramana]

Great Game is not any game. Great Game is for control of India.

[svinayak]

They need the western flank secure.
They have PRC under its dominance which can block eastern flank

They will cover the IOR will aliiance

[ShauryaT]

[arun]

X Posted from the Islamism thread.

Green on Green Intra Mohammadden religion based sectarian violence in Mohammaddenism’s birth place, Saudi Arabia, sees Sunni Mohammadden group Islamic State aka ISIS aka ISIL suicide bomb Shia Mohammaddens praying at a mosque on the Mohammadden Sabbath of Friday.

Given the presence of “Islamic” in their group name, surely Islamic State aka ISIS aka ISIL would have been aware of their Mohammadden co-religionists frequent proclamation that Mohammaddenism is “The Religion of Peace” and thus refrain from the dastardly crime of killing co-religionists praying at a place of worship on the day of their own faiths Sabbath:.

Saudi Arabia: 20 people killed after suicide bomber strikes Shia mosque : Isis claims responsibility for explosion at mosque in al-Qadeeh village in east of kingdom during Friday prayers

[uddu]

ISIS is a Saudi creation. The situation in ME is getting worse. Time for the UN to intervene, or else Baghdad will be gone. I think it's time for a UN resolution to eliminate ISIS from Iraq and Syria.

[arun]

The Elephant in the Room of Mohammaddenism as a fueller of violence in different area of the world yet again provided camouflage by obliging Non-Mohammaddens. Battle for supremacy between the two main Mohammadden sects has nothing to do with Mohammaddenism according to Yaroslav Trofimov, correspondent of the Wall Street Journal:

Sunni-Shiite Conflict Reflects Modern Power Struggle, Not Theological Schism

[arun]

X Posted from the Islamism thread.

Green on Green Intra Mohammadden religion based sectarian violence in Mohammaddenism’s birth place, Saudi Arabia, sees Sunni Mohammadden group Islamic State aka ISIS aka ISIL suicide bomb Shia Mohammaddens praying at a mosque on the Mohammadden Sabbath of Friday.

Given the presence of “Islamic” in their group name, surely Islamic State aka ISIS aka ISIL would have been aware of their Mohammadden co-religionists frequent proclamation that Mohammaddenism is “The Religion of Peace” and thus refrain from the dastardly crime of killing co-religionists praying at a place of worship on the day of their own faiths Sabbath:.

Saudi Arabia: 20 people killed after suicide bomber strikes Shia mosque : Isis claims responsibility for explosion at mosque in al-Qadeeh village in east of kingdom during Friday prayers

X Posted from the Islamism thread.

Green on Green Intra Mohammadden religion based sectarian violence in Mohammaddenism’s birth place, Saudi Arabia, sees Sunni Mohammadden group Islamic State aka ISIS aka ISIL suicide bomb Shia Mosque in the port city of Dammam using a burqua aka burka wearing suicide bomber.


Saudi Arabia mosque bombing: Isis suicide bomber 'disguised as woman' targets Shias

[arun]

X Posted from the Islamism thread.

Sunni Mohammadden majority country Turkey which is run by an Islamist political party since 2002, is accused of supporting fellow Sunni Mohammadden sect members in Syria who are challenging the Alwaite Mohammadden sect regime of Bashar Assad for control of that country :

Turkish daily accuses government of sending arms to Syrian rebels