A look back at the partition

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Samudragupta
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Re: A look back at the partition

Post by Samudragupta »

Surinder Ji,

Well Lahore was to Punjab what Calcutta was to Bengal, fortunately Calcutta was saved even after the ML goons made a good attempt for ethinic cleansing on Direct Action, but the point is not only the lost territory but the psycho-socio-political after effect of the land on the people who were partitioned that is important here, sometimes I feel Paresh Baruah may be more nationalist that the people over there in neo- Hastinapur, but quoting from the Kaplan,
The Indian subcontinent is one such shatter zone. It is defined on its landward sides by the hard geographic
borders of the Himalayas to the north, the Burmese jungle to the east, and the somewhat softer border of
the Indus River to the west. Indeed, the border going westward comes in three stages: the Indus; the
unruly crags and canyons that push upward to the shaved wastes of Central Asia, home to the Pashtun tribes;
and, finally, the granite, snow-mantled massifs of the Hindu Kush, transecting Afghanistan itself. Because these
geographic impediments are not contiguous with legal borders, and because barely any of India’s neighbors are
functional states, the current political organization of the subcontinent should not be taken for granted. You see
this acutely as you walk up to and around any of these land borders, the weakest of which, in my experience, are
the official ones—a mere collection of tables where cranky bureaucrats inspect your luggage. Especially in the
west, the only border that lives up to the name is the Hindu Kush, making me think that in our own lifetimes the
whole semblance of order in Pakistan and southeastern Afghanistan could unravel, and return, in effect, to vague
elements of greater India.
http://www.colorado.edu/geography/class ... graphy.pdf
Manu
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Re: A look back at the partition

Post by Manu »

Gifts of Hindu/Sikh to ROP in Lahore:

Not counting Gurdwara Dehra Sahib, site of martyrdom of Guru Arjan Dev and Loh Mandir, which they won't consider gifts.


(1) Sir Ganga Ram Hospital
(2) Gulab Devi Hospital
(3) Jan Ki Devi Hospital
(4) Dayal Singh College, Dayal Singh School and Dayal Singh Library
(5) D.A.V College

(6) Out of a total number of 218 Registered Factories working in Greater Lahore in the year 1943-44 as many as 173 or 80% belonged to non-Muslims. The total number of Bank Offices in Lahore were 90. Of the banks and branches at Lahore, only three belong to Muslims. There were 80 offices of Insurance Companies in Lahore, 15 of them are Head Offices of such Companies. Of the Insurance Companies and offices only two belong to Muslims. Of the 12 Arts and Science Colleges at Lahore, only one was run by the Muslims and one by the Government. There were 15 professional colleges - excluding three colleges run by the Government, all were run by non-Muslims. Of the 36 High Schools, only four were run by Muslims.

(7) All the localities that came up after 1930s: Ramgali, Gwalmandi, Nisbet Road area, Rishi Nagar, Sant Nagar, Ram Nagar, Krishan Nagar, Janak Nagar, Qila Lachhman Singh, Arya Nagar, Garden Town, Model Town, Canal Park, Wasanpura, Dharampura, Bharat Nagar, Singhpura and Ramgarh - ALL were established by upmarket, educated Hindu/Sikh population.


The entire wealth of Urban and rural Lahore was a gift bestowed upon Pakjabi ROPer SOBs by the departing "civilization". They built nothing and and never will.

BTW, OT here, but Surinder, Bajwa and Prem have all said we 'gave it back to them' during partition riots...Not so...Malerkotla was spared 100% including all people, land and infrastructure..as a return favor to the kindness shown earlier to the children of the 10th Guru. Also, Giani Zail Singh's Girlfriend was a ROP from this very community (before he became President, BTW).

OT#2, in undivided Punjab 80% of Punjab Police was Muslim; the state government was Muslim-dominated (only after the Government’s job reservation policy came into force). No help was expected by Kafirs, really.
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Re: A look back at the partition

Post by Brad Goodman »

I wanted to bring to attention of learned folks to following statement made by Anatol Lieven
A Mutiny Grows in Punjab
This economic dynamism is due to two factors above all: the great British and Pakistani irrigation schemes of the 1880s–1950s and the impact of the Punjabi Muslim refugees who fled from Indian East Punjab in 1947. Like many migrants, the experience of being uprooted and shaken out of old patterns of life instilled in these people a new sense of economic initiative. It also fostered a deep hatred of India. This went on to fuel both the Pakistani military’s obsession with the Indian threat and mass support for the jihadist groups, which from the end of the 1980s on began to launch attacks, first in Indian Kashmir, then in the rest of India. Herein lie the origins of what the Pakistani politician and former ambassador to Washington, Syeda Abida Hussain, has called Pakistan’s “Prussian Bible Belt” in Punjab, a phrase linking the region’s strong military ties with some of its increasingly militant forms of Islam.
How close is the author that pakjabi hatered for India is driven by mohajirs of Indian Punjab?
ramana
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Re: A look back at the partition

Post by ramana »

No its by mohajirs of UP etc. This is a manufactured fact by Anatole Lieven. He is quite well known on the forum.

To me he is an intellectual successor to WW Hunter, Wilfrid Blunt and other imperial social engineers. What they do is cite a lot of facts and wrapped in the midst will be their mind bomb.

Since the Ottomon Empire was in decline the Birtsih wanted to create a new non-Arab/Turkish Muslim group to lead the ummah which is beholden to the British and hence to the Wastern world. Hunter, Blunt et al identifed the Punjabi Muslims ss a large homogenous group that could serve such a plan. This was in late 1880s. The shift of capital from Calcutta to New Delhi, the canal projects, the Kitchener martial races theory all these were micro steps in that plan. Kithcener was raising a new imperial force to conquer Central Asia when WWI put an end to his plans.



Read the manifesto in "Future of Islam" by Wilfrid Scawen Blunt.
Vivek K
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Re: A look back at the partition

Post by Vivek K »

Pakis hate us for their act of creating a separate state? Quite a flawed thought process? The guy needs to be in a nut-house!
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Re: A look back at the partition

Post by surinder »

Brad Goodman wrote:How close is the author that pakjabi hatered for India is driven by mohajirs of Indian Punjab?
Let me put it this way: A gunda hates the local community: he beats the crap out of the local good folks, pummels them in the face, stomach, legs, eyes etc. Kills many folks. The beaten community then decides to fight back and plants a kick on this man. This man then goes and claims that all is hatred is due to that one kick.

This moronic "truths" are then resold by the beholden goras as some deep insights.

Fact of the matter is the following: That particular religion need not have demanded partition; after demanding and getting partitoin they need not have purged their new found land; after they did indeed get their god-forsaken country why expect to live comfortably in Indian Punjab? Why? Why? Why?

But this is not enough: The followers of that particular faith actually did not just sit out comfortably in Jullandhar, Patiala, or Amritsar with peace. They actually had the cheak & audacity to start riots like their brethren in Rawalpindi and Lahore. The result of that was disastrous for them as the Hindus/Sikhs struck back. Check out how the Amritsar riots started in 1947. (Amritsar was majority of this faith prior to August 1947).

Even then: the actual number of people who left Indian Punjab is a small fraction of the other way traffic. The land area, property, gold, women, left behind pales in fraction to that suffered by Hindu/Sikhs who left their millenia old homes in what became overnight enemy territory.

PS: Added later: The UP-Bihar people of certain faiths did not even suffer a bare minimum push. They created TSP and stayed put in UP-B. Any thanks for that from TSP? The balance (if one wants to do a clinical balance sheet) is not even close to being in their favor.
Last edited by surinder on 23 Feb 2011 21:58, edited 1 time in total.
surinder
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Re: A look back at the partition

Post by surinder »

ramana wrote:To me he is an intellectual successor to WW Hunter, Wilfrid Blunt and other imperial social engineers. What they do is cite a lot of facts and wrapped in the midst will be their mind bomb.

Since the Ottomon Empire was in decline the Birtsih wanted to create a new non-Arab/Turkish Muslim group to lead the ummah which is beholden to the British and hence to the Wastern world. Hunter, Blunt et al identifed the Punjabi Muslims ss a large homogenous group that could serve such a plan. This was in late 1880s. The shift of capital from Calcutta to New Delhi, the canal projects, the Kitchener martial races theory all these were micro steps in that plan. Kithcener was raising a new imperial force to conquer Central Asia when WWI put an end to his plans.



Read the manifesto in "Future of Islam" by Wilfrid Scawen Blunt.

Ramman Sir, would you be so kind to provide some books or reliable links for *ALL* the above things?

By the way, I totally agree with what you wrote, but often I find myself not being able to provide enough evidence to support it to others.
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Re: A look back at the partition

Post by ramana »

The above book by Blunt is in google books.
The book by WW Hunter "Punjabi Musalmans" is also there in google books.

Both are downloadable pdfs.
W W Hunter rehabilitated the Muslims after 1857 by claiming they were misled by the Hindus who declared Bhadhur Shah as the Emperor.

Blunt came along and argued that Pakjab Muslims will be the best hope for Brutish Empire to create a new Muslim beholden to the Empress. This will remove the scourge of Europe ie Turkey, Persia etc.

Unfortunately some Indian Muslims fell for this zam zam cola and that led to the Partition.


You will find that its the Brits who still hold the max contacts and feed their 'anal ysis' to US.
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Re: A look back at the partition

Post by Varoon Shekhar »

"Quite a flawed thought process? The guy needs to be in a nut-house!"

If commentators like Lieven are pressed, what would their answer be, as to what should have happened in 1947? Should India( and the non-Moslems of East Punjab) have done everything in their power, to have prevented an exodus of Moslems to West Punjab? Was that even doable, given the circumstances? What about the non-Moslems of Lahore, Rawalpindi and elsewhere in West Punjab?

Or is this whole position( of Lieven and his ilk, including British writers) not about objectivity, balance and understanding, rather of contriving a narrative in order to support or create sympathy for a political and ideological stance i.e aversion and antipathy toward India and Hindus.
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Re: A look back at the partition

Post by ramana »

The second line of thought. Recall they are their to look after their long term interests which are hidden for others. Its not about aversion to India or hindus. Its just retain A-S dominance. Ombaba election has shook them up.
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Re: A look back at the partition

Post by Vivek K »

In 1947, India was a Dominion of the British Empire. The Chief Executive was still Mountbatten. Therefore it was Britain that needed to take action.
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Re: A look back at the partition

Post by AKalam »

The Future of Islam by Wilfred Scawen Blunt

http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/17213
http://www.gutenberg.org/files/17213/17 ... 7213-h.htm
LONDON
KEGAN PAUL, TRENCH & CO., 1, PATERNOSTER SQUARE
1882
The Caliph of the future, in whatever city he may fix his abode, will be chiefly a spiritual and not a temporal king, and will be limited in the [Pg 190]exercise of his authority by few conditions of the existing material kind. He will be spared the burden of despotic government, the odium of tax-gathering and conscription over unwilling populations, the constant struggle to maintain his authority in arms, and the as constant intrigue against rival Mohammedan princes. It is probable that all these would readily acknowledge the nominal sovereignty of a Caliph who could not pretend to coerce them physically, and that the spiritual allegiance of orthodox believers everywhere would accrue to him as other Mohammedan sovereignty relaxed its hold. Thus the dream of what is called Pan-islamism may yet be fulfilled, though in another form from that in which it is now presented to the faithful by Abd el Hamid and the Ulema of Constantinople.

That Islam in this spiritual form may achieve more notable triumphs than by arms in Eastern and Southern Asia we may well believe, and even that it may establish itself one day as the prevailing religion of the Continent. Its moral advance within recent times in the Malay Archipelago, in China, in Tartary, and in India, encourages the supposition that under alien rule Mohammedanism will be able to hold its own, and more than own, [Pg 191]against all rivals, and that in the decay of Buddhism it, and not Christianity, will be the form under which God will eventually be worshipped in the Tropics. Its progress among the Malays under Dutch rule is certainly an astonishing phenomenon, and, taken in connection with a hardly less remarkable progress in Equatorial Africa, may well console those Mussulmans who see in the loss of their temporal dominions northwards signs of the decay of Islam. Could such a reformation as was suggested in my last chapter be indeed effected, the vigour of conversion would doubtless be redoubled, independently of any condition of political prosperity in the ancient seats of Mohammedan dominion. I do not, therefore, see in territorial losses a sign of Islam's ruin as a moral and intellectual force in the world.

It is time, however, to consider the special part destined to be played by England in the drama of the Mussulman future. England, if I understand her history rightly, stands towards Islam in a position quite apart from that of the rest of the European States. These I have described as continuing a tradition of aggression inherited from the Crusades, and from the bitter wars waged by the Latin and Greek Empires against the [Pg 192]growing power of the Ottoman Turks. In the latter England took no part, her religious schism having already separated her from the general interests of Catholic Europe, while she had withdrawn from the former in the still honourable stage of the adventure, and consequently remained with no humiliating memories to avenge. She came, therefore, into her modern relations with Mohammedans unprejudiced against them, and able to treat their religious and political opinions in a humane and liberal spirit, seeking of them practical advantages of trade rather than conquest. Nor has the special nature of her position towards them been unappreciated by Mohammedans.

In spite of the deceptions on some points of late years, and recent vacillations of policy towards them, the still independent nations of Islam see in England something different from the rest of Christendom, something not in its nature hostile to them, or regardless of their rights and interests. They know at least that they have nothing to dread from Englishmen on the score of religious intolerance, and there is even a tendency with some of them to exaggerate the sympathy displayed towards them by supposing a community of beliefs on certain points considered by them [Pg 193]essential. Thus the idea is common among the ignorant in many Mussulman countries that the English are Muwahedden, or Unitarians, in contradistinction to the rest of Christians, who are condemned as Musherrakin, or Polytheists; and the Turkish alliance is explained by them on this supposition, supplemented in the case of the Turks themselves with the idea that England is itself a part of Islam, and so its natural ally.[18] These are of course but ideas of the vulgar. Yet they represent a fact which is not without importance, namely, that England's is accepted by Mussulmans as a friendly not a hostile influence, and that her protection is sought without that suspicion which is attached to the friendly offices of other powers. Even in India, where Englishmen have supplanted the Mussulmans as a ruling race, the sentiment towards British rule is not, as far as I can learn, and compared with that of other sections of the Indian community, a hostile one.

The Mussulmans of Delhi and the Punjab would no doubt desire a resumption by themselves of practical authority in the country where they were [Pg 194]till lately masters; but they are conscious that they are not strong enough now to effect this, and their feeling towards English rule is certainly less bitter than towards the Hindoos, their former subjects, now their rivals. Were they in any way specially protected in their religious interests by the Indian Government, they would, I am confident, make not only contented but actively loyal subjects.

As things stand, therefore, it would seem natural that, in the general disruption which will follow the fall of Constantinople, it is to England the various nations of Islam should look mainly for direction in their political difficulties. The place of adviser and protector, indeed, seems pointed out for her. With the disappearance of the Ottoman Sultan there will be no longer any great Mussulman sovereignty in the world, and the Mohammedan population of India, already the wealthiest and most numerous, will then assume its full importance in the counsels of believers. It will also assuredly be expected of the English Crown that it should then justify its assumption of the old Mohammedan title of the Moguls, by making itself in some sort the political head of Islam. Her Majesty will be left its most powerful [Pg 195]sovereign, and it will be open to her advisers, if they be so minded, to exercise paramount influence on all its affairs. I do not say that they will be so minded, but they will have the power and the opportunity to a degree never yet presented to any Christian Government of directing the tone of thought of Mussulmans throughout the world, and of utilizing the greatest religious force in Asia for the purposes of humanity and progress. I am myself profoundly convinced that on England's acceptance or refusal of this mission the future of her dominion in India will mainly depend, and with it the whole solution of the problem she has set to herself of civilizing Southern Asia.

Let us see what our actual relations with Mohammedanism are, and what is the value of its goodwill to us in Asia. And first as to India. I find in Hunter's Gazetteer, our latest authority, the following figures:—

Mussulman Census of India.

[Pg 196]
Bengal 19,553,831
Assam 1,104,601
North-West Provinces 4,189,348
Ajmere 47,310
Oudh 1,197,724
Punjab 9,337,685
Central Provinces 233,247
Berar 154,951
Mysore 208,991
Coorg 11,304
British Burmah 99,846
Madras 1,857,857
Bombay 2,870,450
—————
Total 40,867,145

These are large figures taken merely as they stand, but in point of fact they represent far more than is apparent. To understand them at their full value it must be remembered—First, that the Mussulman population is a largely increasing one, not only in actual numbers, but in its proportion to the other races and sects of the Peninsula, a fact which I believe the census returns of 1881, when published, will amply prove. Secondly, that its geographical distribution coincides pretty closely with that of the political life and energy of the country. The Punjab and the North-West Provinces alone contain an aggregate of thirteen million Mussulmans. Thirdly, that it is homogeneous to a degree shown by no other Indian community. Though less numerous by two-thirds than the whole Hindoo population, it is far more so than any coherent section of that population, [Pg 197]and is thus the largest body of opinion in the Empire. Fourthly, it is also the most generally enlightened. It is the only section of the community which knows its own history and preserves the tradition of its lost political importance; and if it has held itself aloof hitherto from competition with other races for the public service, it has been through pride rather than inability. What Mussulmans there are who have entered the service of Government have been men of distinguished capacity. And lastly, it is no isolated body, but remains in close communication with the mass of its fellow-believers throughout the world. The Mohammedan population of India is, therefore, an exceptional as well as a large one.

Our second interest in Mohammedanism lies in Egypt. Here, standing at the threshold of our commerce with the East, we find another large community almost wholly Mussulman, for whose well-being we are already to a certain extent pledged, and in whose political future we perceive our own to be involved. A hostile Egypt we rightly hold to be an impossibility for our position; and religious antagonism at Cairo, even if controlled by military occupation, would be to us a constant menace. Nor must it be supposed that [Pg 198]Egypt, like the Barbary coast, will, into whose hands soever it falls, change its religious aspect. The population of the Delta is too industrious, too sober, and content with too little, to fear competition as agriculturists with either Italians, Greeks, or Maltese; and the conditions of life under a torrid sun will always protect Egypt from becoming an European colony. The towns may, indeed, be overrun by foreigners, but the heart of the country will remain unchanged, and, like India, will refuse to remodel itself on any foreign system of civilization. Mohammedanism, therefore, will maintain itself in Egypt intact, and its good-will will remain our necessity.[19]

A third interest lies in Asiatic Turkey. This we have guaranteed by treaty against foreign invasion; and though our pledge is nominally to the Sultan, not to the people of the Empire, and though that pledge is contingent upon an impossibility, administrative reform, and is therefore not strictly binding, it is impossible to escape the ad[Pg 199]mission that we have a moral obligation towards the Mussulmans of Asia Minor and Syria. How far we may be disposed or able to fulfil it remains to be seen. I do not myself anticipate any further intervention on the part of England in defence of the Turkish-speaking lands. These, from their geographical position, lie outside our effective military control, and, dishonourable as a retreat from our engagements will be to us, it may be a necessity.
Blunt definitely mentions the English belief about Pakjabi's, but was it because Pakjabi's role during 1857?

I have briefly scrolled through Hunters book in google books:

The Indian Musalmans
Sir William Wilson Hunter - 1872

Both authors are sympathetic and obviously biased towards the cause of "Musalmans", but they do point out some valid broad facts of the prevailing situation at the time, from their own unique POV of course.

Speaking of biased opinions, here is a Bangladeshi view on Muslim peasant grievances that led to the formation of Muslim League in Bengal, and ultimately contributed to the Partition:

http://www.banglapedia.org/httpdocs/HT/P_0134.HTM
Last edited by AKalam on 24 Feb 2011 06:24, edited 1 time in total.
Pranav
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Re: A look back at the partition

Post by Pranav »

ramana wrote:The second line of thought. Recall they are their to look after their long term interests which are hidden for others. Its not about aversion to India or hindus. Its just retain A-S dominance. Ombaba election has shook them up.
Obama is just as much a creature as the Bushes or Clintons. And the goal is not really dominance of the "anglo-saxons" as such.
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Re: A look back at the partition

Post by Varoon Shekhar »

If every single Punjabi Moslem in East Punjab stayed on, then some other narrative, reason or excuse would be offered for Pakistani behaviour. India being larger, fear of the Hindu majority, desire to preserve Islam against syncretic/absorptive trends in Hinduism, some individual Indian's lament about partition and wistful thought about undoing the partition etc. Any excuse. It's a contrived narrative. But it's true about the aversion to Hinduism bit. That's not the real reason, as far as the Americans and British go.
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Re: A look back at the partition

Post by brihaspati »

The Hindu could not be digested. Moreover, the Germans took over the "Hindu" in the form of the "Aryan", so that the Brits had to find some other mantle opposed to the Hindu because their competitors had appropriated them. Islamists have alwasy proved more flexible and swinging to extremes of dominance and submission, enmity or friendship. In political terms the mullahcracy are the ideal political prostitutes. In contrast the Hindus neither oppose strongly, nor do they join up entirely.

A lot of British ideological developments can be explained by their competition with mainland Europe. What Europeans do they have to oppose. Probably reciprocal too in many ways. Think of the Anglo-German tiff over the Ottomans, and the whole chain of raising the Sunni Arab mullahcracy sky-high in the Ummah. [Agreed that it was also the alleged fear of losing the Jewel in the Crown].


The Islamics and mullahcracy proved a willing bootlicker and nagar-badhu of the Brits. Both saw common cause in uniting against the Hindu - which was not digestible, which had not been defeated by the best genocidic efforts of the Islamists before, and which perhaps both recognized as having a cultural and philosophical sophistication not only beyond their comprehension but also beyond easy deconstruction and destruction.

So it was practical political concerns , but which through that political experience also made the Islamist and the British recognize a common enemy or obstacle to their respective imperialist goals - sourced from the Hindu identity itself. This is not mere speculation - for even at the late stage of the WWII, it is enough to llok at the iconic Brit mentality - that of Churchill's fulminations against the "Hindu".
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Re: A look back at the partition

Post by ramana »

X-Post...
Christopher Sidor wrote:Today I finished reading the book

The shadow of the Great Game: The untold story of India's Partition
By Narendra Singh Sarila.
ISBN=978-81-7223-874-2
HarperCollins Publishers India.

A wonderful piece of work. The author does draw some erroneous conclusions, but if we strip away the authors view point, we are left with some fantastic gems. There are two chapters exclusively devoted to Kashmir. Especially the part, about the acquisition of northern Kashmir, i.e. gilgit and balatistan, by pakistan.

A disclaimer is in order. I have always believed that Pakistan is a prop by some north Atlantic nations and certain Asian nations, who will utilize it for their own needs. Strategic and Economic. This is a belief that I have held before I have read this book. Further please do not assume that I hold a grudge against contemporary British or Britain.

Some notable points I am giving below
  • By the time partition came, India's status in the British commonwealth or British empire has reversed. From being the economic rational of the British common wealth it became the strategic rational. It was no longer the most lucrative market, for British industry. Rather it was a base from with the oil wells of western asia could be protected, the so called "Wells of Power". India was also a source of limitless fighting manpower whose quality was good.
  • Air power had made its presence felt in Britian, especially the Blitz. Air power was based on oil. Oil was in the Gulf. The Gulf was where the British interest lay post WWII and not India.
  • India was no longer the self-sustaining dynamo. Rather at the end of WWII, Keyenes informed the British Government that it was under a debt of 3 billion pounds and 2 billion pounds were being spent to maintain the empire.
  • The British were stunned by the Congress refusal to take part in WWII. Congress opposed the inclusion of India as the belligerent against the axis power. This made Congress as unreliable in eyes of British raj. Consequently they built up the Muslim league against the the congress.
  • The British saw the northwestern part of Pakistan and Kashmir as the cockpit of the future struggle against Soviet Union. i.e. a continuation of the so called great game. One consequence of the Nazi invasion of Soviet Union was the shifting of the Soviet Industrial might from the European part of Soviet Union to areas east of Urals, i.e. the Asiatic part of Soviet Union. The Urals has been considered in certain Northern Atlantic countries as the boundary between Europe and Asia. These areas were not vulnerable from Western Europe. But could be attacked from NWFP province of undivided India.
  • The predominant oil producing region of Soviet Union was the Caucasus. These areas were also not vulnerable from Europe, but again were vulnerable from NWFP of undivided India.
  • Congress was not prepared to take part in the so called great game or containment of Soviet Union. Nor would it allow India or Indian resources or Indian manpower to be used similarly. The Muslim league was willing on all these three points.
  • The Royal Indian army could not be counted upon to stay loyal. The fact that INA consisted of erstwhile Royal Indian Army officials made an impression. Also the fact that one Sikh, one Hindu and one Muslim generals were able to work in INA made the so called unity of Indian different communities/castes/religions a reality. There was a report by an American officials that the moral of Indian Army was low and it was basically a mercenary army.
  • The great Indian mutiny of 1946 seemed to reinforce the above mentioned point. It was compared again and again to 1857 as the worst point when British rule was the most vulnerable.
  • It appeared to British that the communal flare up was a perfect "antidote" to the anti-British feeling prevalent in India during 1945-47.


Now let me refute some of the incorrect observations of the author.
1) Congress erred in not taking a willing part against the Axis power.
The declaration claiming that India was at war against the axis power was done without any consultations with the Indians. It was a repeat of WWI when India took willing part against the so called aggressor nations. But post WWI the move only consolidated British rule in India. India did not get dominion status nor more self rule. Moreover we had no quarrel with any of the axis powers. It was certain north Atlantic nations and Soviets which had the quarrel with the axis powers.
The fact that we were basically fighting a war on behalf of somebody else is not pointed out by the author. Another fact that the author failed to point out was that Britain dragged India into its war. Finally we were perpetuating somebody else's power with our manpower/resources/location also is not mentioned.

2) Congress erred in launching the quit India movement in 1942.
Congress literally coincided the quit India movement with the peak of axis power.Please refer to the image given below, where black represents the axis power while yellow represents neutral countries.
Image
Courtesy Wikimedia. The Original Image at a higher resolution is given here. The Image is hosted by the courtesy of ImageHousing
The nazis had just reached the oil wells of Caucasus and were threating to over-run Stalingrad, thus cutting off southern Russia from the rest of the country. Apart from the impact of the fall of Stalingrad, which bore Stalin's name and not lenin or marx or some body else, would result, the nazi's came closet to winning the war in 1942. Congress choose the most significant time to launch the agitation.
We should have sat out the WWII, if it were in our hands. There was no different between Churchill and Hitler or between Nazi Germany and Imperial Britain. Both of them were at the end of the day fighting to keep their empires alive. Churchill succeeded while Hitler failed.
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Re: A look back at the partition

Post by SBajwa »

by Surinder
SBajwa,

Can you comment on what you saw in Lahore? How does the city look? What does it resemble?

Does it really measure up to the Punjabi phrases of "Jeenay Lhore nahin vekhya, oh jammya hee nahin", or "Lhore Lhore aaei"? Are they exaggerations?

I hear contradictory reports from people.
Sorry for the late reply!! City of Lahore has

1. All sign boards are in Urdu and very few in English.

2. clothing of only three colors (cream/grey/brown colors for men and black for women).

3. Language is 100% exactly like Amritsar/Gurdaspur/Ferozepur with "Inshallah, "Bahut aala", "Allah" thrown in. Minimal difference what so ever as well as language is concerned. Lahore language sounds very funny for example "Bus Stand" in our punjab becomes "Lorry Adda" at Lahore. They don't know what "Bus Stand" is. some people also reply funny without using their brains., outside Shalimar garden I asked somebody to translate the written "Urdu" for me as I wanted to see if they had any reference to Ranjit Singh., the person replied "Bau kapde te aine vadhiyae paye ne par padna nahi aaunda". i.e. "Babu! with such good clothes you can't even read".

4. No movie posters in city anywhere., since mushy was ruling there were no political posters either. I only saw signs around Gurdwara Dehra Sahib (which is exactly opposite of the Shahi Qila or Lahore Fort) saying "welcome to Chinese president". With police everywhere making sure that hawkers, vagabounds are kept at bay.

5. Muslims are not allowed inside Gurdwaras or Temples. Gurdwaras and Temples are locked up and are only opened during "Diwali, Guru Nanak Birthday, Visakhi or any other Jatha visiting them". So when we went in early March all Gurdwaras and temples were locked up. At Gurdwara Dehra Sahib we (me and my mother) stood in front of the gate so that Waqf board member can saw us from inside who then letting us inside. We have to write our names (along with passport numbers) in a register before we were let into gurdwara Sahib. There was no Parkash of Guru Granth sahib., just an empty building with pictures and a place describing it as a "Martyrdom place of Guru Arjan Dev ji". Same thing at Gurdwara Nankana sahib were some sikh children were locked up inside the periphery of the Gurdwara with Waqf board person missing., Somebody ran over to his house to get him to let us inside after waqf approved paper work.

6. All food in Pakistan is non-vegetarian even Tarka for Dal is cooked with the beef fat. So only thing that you can eat there is "fruits".
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Re: A look back at the partition

Post by Paul »

SBajwa,

What is the internal consensus in the Sikh community on MMS's Pakistan policy.

TIA
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Re: A look back at the partition

Post by SBajwa »

Majority of Sikhs have voted Akali party which is opposition of congress in Punjab as well as in Center. Sikhs in West are happy that "Goras can at least now know that people who wear turbans are not Muslims"., i.e. advertisement of Sikhs around the world by MMS is good. His policies are generally not liked.
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Re: A look back at the partition

Post by Yayavar »

SBajwa wrote:[
I asked somebody to translate the written "Urdu" for me as I wanted to see if they had any reference to Ranjit Singh., the person replied "Bau kapde te aine vadhiyae paye ne par padna nahi aaunda". i.e. "Babu! with such good clothes you can't even read".
:) ..has happened to me in Chennai and Trivandrum -- both times by well-dressed people themselves.

All food in Pakistan is non-vegetarian even Tarka for Dal is cooked with the beef fat. So only thing that you can eat there is "fruits".
wow!
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Re: A look back at the partition

Post by ramana »

Meanwhile book review in Pioneer
AGENDA | Sunday, June 5, 2011 | Email | Print | | Back


He lived for Hindu cause
June 09, 2011 12:37:59 AM

Dr SYAMA PRASAD MOOKERJEE AND INDIAN POLITICS
Author: Prashanto K Chatterji
Publisher: Cambridge
Price: Rs 795

Syama Prasad Mookerjee perceived the threat of Islamic separatism more clearly than anybody in Congress, say Prafull Goradia and KR Phanda

Prashanto Kumar Chatterji’s book covers Syama Prasad Mookerjee’s political career as Bengal’s Finance Minister (1941-42), Hindu Mahasabha’s ascendancy in Indian politics and its reverses (1945-47), Mookerjee’s stint as a Union Minister (1947-50) and the establishment of the Bharatiya Jana Sangh (1950-53). In such a short period, he had pursued with an exceptional zeal the cause of the Hindu community. Had he not died under mysterious circumstances in 1953, the history of post-Independent India would have been different.

Mookerjee was one of the few Hindu leaders who had the experience of working under a Muslim Premier of a Muslim-majority province of Bengal. He had seen how the Fazlul Haq Ministry, in its earlier avatar, had taken a number of measures to reduce Hindus to the status of second-class citizens in their own country. The communalisation of secondary education, discrimination in the matter of employment, abduction of Hindu women and destruction of Hindu places of workshop were a common feature during the regime. All this had happened because the Congress had refused to form a coalition with Haq, forcing him to take the League’s support.

By a strange turn of events, Mookerjee and Haq found themselves working together as colleagues from December 1941, on the basis of a general understanding that the second Haq Ministry would maintain communal harmony. In connivance with the British bureaucracy, however, the provincial Government continued to make planned efforts to engineer riots, particularly in East Bengal, to demoralise Hindus so that they flee from their hearths and homes, or get converted to Islam. Mookerjee joined the Ministry to alleviate the condition of Hindus. However, he resigned on March 31, 1943, as he couldn’t protect Hindus in the State. Also, he was fed up with the policy of the Union Government, which ignored the legitimate claims of Indians and used every means to repress every form of nationalist activity.

In this context, the author quotes Prof Balraj Madhok: “The way he (Mookerjee) let go of the ministership, when he found that he could do no good to his people by continuing in the ministry, made it clear to all that here was a man whom no temptation could deflect from the path of duty. He had joined the coalition cabinet as a representative of the Hindu Mahasabha, but he came out of it as the undisputed leader of entire nationalist Bengal.

Thereafter, Mookerjee devoted himself entirely to the strengthening of the Hindu Mahasabha. He was convinced that the Congress was no longer committed to the welfare of the nation, particularly Hindus, thanks to its policy of appeasement towards the Muslim League.

The 1945-46 election results had proved beyond doubt that the League was the sole representative of Muslims in India and Jinnah their unquestioned leader. To reinforce their claim for a separate homeland for Muslims on a religious basis, Jinnah gave a call for Direct Action in 1946. This resulted in the Great Calcutta Killings of August 16, 1946. The League, after the 1945-46 election, had laid claims to the inclusion of the whole of Bengal and Punjab provinces in Pakistan. The author points out that but for the strong case made by Mookerjee for the division of these provinces, the Congress might have yielded to the League’s demand.

After Independence, Mookerjee was appointed a Minister in the first Cabinet formed under Jawaharlal Nehru. The other non-Congress Ministers who were included on the basis of their merit were Sir John Mathai and Sir Shanmukham Chetty. Soon thereafter, Pakistan resorted to the policy of ethnic cleansing of Hindus in East Pakistan — now Bangladesh. There was a mass migration of Hindus. Mookerjee felt distressed and told the Prime Minister that it was India’s duty to ensure protection of Hindus in Pakistan. Since Nehru was reluctant to take any effective action against Pakistan, Mookerjee resigned from the Cabinet.

On November 15, 1952, Mookerjee observed in Parliament: “The question of the minorities in Pakistan has been settled during the last five years in different ways. So far as West Pakistan is concerned, today it stands virtually denuded of its minority population. The creation of a homogenous Islamic state was the principal aim of the founder of Pakistan and those who have come into his shoes have carried that deal into execution in every possible way. Hindus have been deprived of their rights in every sphere — social, cultural, economic, religious and political. They are treated as zimmis or protected citizens on regular payment of jizya.”

How prophetic the above observations were! Only recently, jizya was imposed on Sikhs living in Pakistan’s tribal west. Those who were unable to pay were murdered. Mookerjee had suggested an exchange of population, but the proposal was turned down both by Gandhi and Nehru.
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Re: A look back at the partition

Post by ramana »

X-posted from Prem in Book Review Thread so can comment on it here...

http://www.boston.com/ae/books/articles ... artitions/
Images, language make an impact
Even in the context of the worldwide violence and carnage of the 1940s, the genocides engendered by the India-Pakistan partition stand out as particularly brutal.
As India approached independence with its Muslims and Hindus steadfastly refusing to co-govern, partition seemed inevitable. But the process, engineered by the British as part of its colonial exit strategy, was a perfect storm of incompetence, negligence, and indifference.
They disregarded that millions of Muslims and Hindus lived in communities closely braided together. They ignored the Sikhs’ existence. And they rushed the job, declaring the partition official on Aug. 15, 1947, with little warning and still lacking definitive boundaries. Indian Muslims awoke that day in a Hindu country that wanted them gone; while across the ambiguous border, Hindus and Sikhs had suddenly become aliens in hostile Pakistan.Within three months, between 10 million and 12 million people on both sides of the border had fled in terror. In transit, they were open targets for violence, abduction, rape, and murder. Entire trainloads of people were butchered. Men on all sides annihilated their own families to prevent them from being captured. In some villages, parents threw their children into a bonfire. Men, to “protect’’ their wives, beheaded them. In all, half a million people died.This is the bloody, violent netherworld explored by Amit Majmudar in his debut novel, “Partitions.’’ The book chronicles the journey of four characters, all seeking refuge amid the chaos.
The big scam is to pretend the Brits were lazy, unread and just plain stupid to have prevented the mass killings. It allows the narrative of blaming the darkies for being so bloody minded while the scamsters can appear aloof.
I think the mass killings were allowed to sow bad blood for ever between the communities.
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Re: A look back at the partition

Post by SwamyG »

SBajwa wrote: 2. clothing of only three colors (cream/grey/brown colors for men and black for women).
I always wondered about such clothes in parts of Pakistan (or even in Afghanistan). Why do they wear limited color clothing? Their lorries (trucks) are colorful. However, when there are pictures of men wearing Shalwar Kameez in the public arena, most of them seem to have the colors you mention. It is not like they cannot dye these clothes. If you randomly pick pictures from Peshawar, you would see similar patterns.
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Re: A look back at the partition

Post by Prem »

SwamiG,
Onlee Indians wear colorful clothes as they are used to celebrating life. OTOH, Arabs and other sundry Baaps of Poaks are/were known for wearing dark brown,black clothing with grim putlook toward life. Samething with turban, Indics wear turban of different colors while MEns and their discarded litter called Poak dont.
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Re: A look back at the partition

Post by sanjeevpunj »

I see pakis and afghans aplenty in UAE, and white, khaki,dull green and brown Kurta Pyjamas are standard out here too. Only the Taxi drivers have UAE enforced uniform, or Lahori culture would have reached here.Another interesting sight is to see newly converted malyali muslims donning the white arabic robe -called Kandoora!
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Re: A look back at the partition

Post by SwamyG »

Prem wrote:SwamiG,
Onlee Indians wear colorful clothes as they are used to celebrating life. OTOH, Arabs and other sundry Baaps of Poaks are/were known for wearing dark brown,black clothing with grim putlook toward life. Samething with turban, Indics wear turban of different colors while MEns and their discarded litter called Poak dont.
Any relation to the geography/terrain? If you look at Mongols or Tibetans the first thing that hits us is a monotonous tone. No doubt, some are very bright, but then most of them seem to be wearing very similar colors too. It is like there is a lack of variety. Is it tribal in characteristic? Or are they too homogeneous?
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Re: A look back at the partition

Post by brihaspati »

About colours : two primary likely cause:
(1) the heat and sunhine : lighter colours would help. Moreover, in dusty, grey sandy areas, the grey/pale colours would blend in.
(2) colours in ancient world were costly, and dyes - especially the more brilliant ones needed agricultural and skills bases that were not always likely to be within reach of nomadic societies. One of the compulsory items of tribute required by the brief empire of the ghaznavids - stipulated 900 "maunds" of "neel" per year which was a much sought after gift/tribute item further down the fodd chain in the "Caliphate", or Indian "Indigo" (in fact that latter name also indicates India specific origin, just as "anil" in Spanish, deriving from Indian "neel", which meant even there this blue dye was known as coming from India).

Islam probably made necessity into a virtue by which men are required to use less of colour but more of "perfumes" and women less of perfumes but more of "colours".
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Re: A look back at the partition

Post by Airavat »

Heat and sunshine aplenty in Rajasthan and Gujarat, but the people wear colorful clothes and turbans. The second cause is more likely.
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Re: A look back at the partition

Post by brihaspati »

^^^Yes, very true. Not only clothes, Rajasthan lives on as fond memory of some parts of my teenage years in the brilliantly painted houses. A visual feast if you see from a high point against the rising or setting sun. I wish I could have all the houses in India painted with such brilliant colours, especially the blue I found commonly used in Rajasthan.

But Airavat ji, maybe, just maybe - the "deserts" of Rajasthan were perhaps "greener" and still more productive or closer to the sources of dyes than ME death zones. :P
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Re: A look back at the partition

Post by Abhibhushan »

An old and emotional tale:
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Re: A look back at the partition

Post by sanjeevpunj »

brihaspati wrote:^^^Yes, very true. Not only clothes, Rajasthan lives on as fond memory of some parts of my teenage years in the brilliantly painted houses. A visual feast if you see from a high point against the rising or setting sun. I wish I could have all the houses in India painted with such brilliant colours, especially the blue I found commonly used in Rajasthan.

But Airavat ji, maybe, just maybe - the "deserts" of Rajasthan were perhaps "greener" and still more productive or closer to the sources of dyes than ME death zones. :P
Strangely, I once was at Jodhpur and I saw the blue painted houses (someone told me the blue color represented the houses of brahmins).
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Re: A look back at the partition

Post by brihaspati »

sanjeevpunj wrote:
brihaspati wrote:^^^Yes, very true. Not only clothes, Rajasthan lives on as fond memory of some parts of my teenage years in the brilliantly painted houses. A visual feast if you see from a high point against the rising or setting sun. I wish I could have all the houses in India painted with such brilliant colours, especially the blue I found commonly used in Rajasthan.

But Airavat ji, maybe, just maybe - the "deserts" of Rajasthan were perhaps "greener" and still more productive or closer to the sources of dyes than ME death zones. :P
Strangely, I once was at Jodhpur and I saw the blue painted houses (someone told me the blue color represented the houses of brahmins).
All the more incentive to paint all houses blue! :P
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Re: A look back at the partition

Post by svinayak »

Pakistan is a creation by the British Imperial government of the 1930s and 1940s where they saw the Indian independence movement led by the Congress party was going to erase any chances of containing the perceived expansion of the Russian empire.

Since the Congress party was mainly made up of majority Hindus, they found in Jinnah, an ambitious and clever politician, the necessary ingredients to launch the Muslim nation campaign. The whole thing, if observed carefully, is full of paradoxes.

The idea of Pakistan was hatched in London.

Jinnah was a Muslim only in his name. He violated everything that Islam prescribes for Muslims. And in today's Pakistan, he would belong to the minority Shia community which is being hounded out by the Sunni groups.

The borders were arbitrarily drawn by someone who had never been to the sub-continent. This was to avoid any "bias" had it been drawn by an Englishman who had spent time there. This led to unprecedented demographic shifts where millions had to move from their ancestral lands to elsewhere. This was carefully set up so that they'd slaughter each other in the process. People who lived as neighbors for generations would be driven by rage to kill each other. And it would lead to long term animosity and deep seated mutual hatred.

No one in their right mind would create a nation for a religious group in two parts of the sub-continent, separated by more than a thousand miles of another country made up of people who would be termed as the enemy. If the British wanted, they could have made East Pakistan as an independent Muslim nation in its own right in 1947. But they set it up as two separate sections. This was a land mine that could prove beneficial at a latter time.

If one reads about the events during those years, it is very clear that Winston Churchill was the real culprit. His deep seated prejudice and racism had led to the partition of the sub-continent along religious lines. He was one of the serious proponents of having the Northwestern part of the sub-continent as a base for the British against the Russians. He had no inkling that the British empire would end soon and the Russians would now be facing the Americans in a cold war.

So Pakistan became a reality. It was destined to be a garrison for the Western powers to contain the Soviets. A garrison is exclusively for a military. The whole of Pakistan was created in a hurry. In order for its military to stay loyal to the Western powers, they had to be kept under a perpetual need and an enemy to go with it. And they found India as that bogeyman. For as long as the cold war lasted, India was left to its own defense and Pakistan's military was pampered with money, weapons and training.

Then the bait was laid for the Soviet bear in Afghanistan. The USSR walked into the trap and it was now weakened and finally destroyed through a proxy war staged through the garrison named Pakistan. The USSR is no more. Pakistan had been injected with high doses of a poison called Islamic radicalism and Jihad. It was no longer needed. The purpose of its creation was met. It was abandoned. India was never in the strategic radar anyway.

Now Pakistan is not needed. Its disease has grown and it has hit back at the West through various terrorist missions. It is not Pakistan, but the parasites that have grown consuming this poison. Its military was left afloat and it did what it considered as the best way to stay afloat - engage in Jihad with India and keep some conflict going. Since the parasites had over grown and attacked the very hearts of the Western nations, they have come back this time to kill just the parasites and would like to leave Pakistan's military alone. It might be needed in the future, who knows?

And India, against all odds, has managed to survive and grow economically, stay as a democratic nation despite all the drawbacks and has not disappeared as Churchill envisioned.

In today's context, Pakistan is not needed for the West. The only enemy left for them is Pakistan's military and the parasites that it has surrounded itself with. Only they do not know how to bury it deep underground, now that Pakistani military is blocking any progress in Afghanistan. And it is building more nukes and war heads. It has turned into a monster.

At some point, it is all going to explode. The Western powers that nurtured this monster, will have to deal with it and destroy it. As far the people of the region, no one seems to have cared for them all along. And they are not going to care. They are expendable as far as the freedom loving Westerners are concerned - only their freedom, rights, equality etc matter. As far the others, well, let them eat cakes,

Pakistan never became a normal nation because it was never meant to be one. Those who created a nation for Muslims knew very well that such an idea is idiotic and will never work. So Pakistan as a nation never existed. It has been a garrison.
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Re: A look back at the partition

Post by ramana »

It kind of validates my Kabila theory. However it postulates that the kabila was setup by the Brits.
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Re: A look back at the partition

Post by svinayak »

ramana wrote:It kind of validates my Kabila theory. However it postulates that the kabila was setup by the Brits.
It is Brit creation but the mental makeup took more than 200 years for the British

Check how Paki thinks
UK and Pakistan have close relationship going back about 250 years. Pakistan and Pakistani people will never do anything which impacts on Great Britain. Pakistan had no terrorist attacks prior to the invasion of Afghanistan.

Over a million people of Pakistani descent are British citzens. Most Pakistani politician regard GB as their second home.

Mr Joshi and people of his ilk do not understand Pakistan or its people. The Army is powerful because it is one of the few institutions that works and largely free of corruption. Whereas civilian institutions, particularly the political parties, are corrupt and incompetent. This is the main reason why ordinary Pakistanis see hardline Islamic groups as a hope for corruption free future. Of course, they are deluded because these groups want power to further their agenda and are not interested in the welfare of ordinary people.

As usual you can see the anti-Pakistani hysterical comments by people with their own agenda. What we need is facts and understanding to make useful contrbution to the debate. Get over the events of past 60 years and look to the future.
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Re: A look back at the partition

Post by ramana »

Indian Independence was achieved after painful preparation over almost a century after 1857 war and was followed by a great deal of moderation in its relations with other powers despite great provocation from Pakistna and others with insitgation of outside powers.
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Re: A look back at the partition

Post by svinayak »

Indian independence was also a result of deceit with India holding the crumbs after Pakistan and other parties got what they wanted.
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Re: A look back at the partition

Post by Prem »

Acharya wrote:Indian independence was also a result of deceit with India holding the crumbs after Pakistan and other parties got what they wanted.
Instead of Chacha Nehru, Dr Ambedkar would have negotiated with Liaqat Ali.
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Re: A look back at the partition

Post by chetak »

Airavat wrote:Heat and sunshine aplenty in Rajasthan and Gujarat, but the people wear colorful clothes and turbans. The second cause is more likely.

Is it possible that in inherently violent islamic lands and their brutal pillaging cultures, the dull colors were used per force as a camouflage to protect against attacks and ambush in the desert where as in Hindustan such considerations were few and the natural tendency of the human being to deck and adorn oneself in colorful finery took precedence over safety of life and limb?

Just my two paise onlee.
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Re: A look back at the partition

Post by dada »

Read the following page on the Recent Partition of Sudan. One will never miss the similarities with India's Partition 64 years back.
Muslim approach to governance has absolutely NOT changed much !

http://www.sudantribune.com/Al-Mahdi-bl ... plit,39472

Main Points are:
1.Failure of the country’s muslim rulers in managing its diversity within unity
2. Possibility of Wars between the two new countries.
3. rise of racist and war-attracting rhetoric by leaders
4. pending issues between North and South Sudan
5. disagreements over essential issues of borders and oil (these issues could lead to war).
6. deprive southerners from citizenship in the North.
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