Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Feb. 26, 2010

vera_k · Post by **vera_k** » 15 Mar 2010 04:55

Gagan wrote:I used to get angry when NDTV gets respectable and honorable Indian experts on the same platform as a lying through the teeth pakistani diplomat. I would think, this is a great disservice to the nation that these channels do. Now I wonder if that was correct, after all, each time that the pakistani displays his pakiness on TV and blames India, I hope atleast some WKK in some corner of India with a tinge of nationalism left in him/her will get to see the real pakistan.

This should be a straight battle of ideas between Zaid Hamid PBUH and his secular mirror images on Indian television. If the secular types cannot serve as a foil for ZH, they have no utility and will need to be discarded for an alternative.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 15 Mar 2010 05:43

Hari Seldon wrote:
After all, if the uberites don't like ZaidH refs, they can always ignore it. No?

Saar you are 2.5 steps behind.

It is being alleged that ignoring Zaid Hamid, which is what I have been doing after listening to about 2 speeches in full means that one is missing out on some gems of information and "clues" about Pakistanis.

What are these clues that an analysiss of Zaid Hamid's speeches reveal? If you know I would be eternally grateful for an education in this regard. However if it is for entertainment and laughs alone - you are welcome to have your entertainment. But I would rather not be told that there is important information that i being lost by ignoring that incredible bore. What information saar? What clues?

Hari Seldon · Post by **Hari Seldon** » 15 Mar 2010 06:01

It is being alleged that ignoring Zaid Hamid, which is what I have been doing after listening to about 2 speeches in full means that one is missing out on some gems of information and "clues" about Pakistanis

No idea. I myself don't like listening to Zaid types mouth off and haven't done so in months now.

Moi only concern is a seeming tacit attempt, inadvertant perhaps, to blackout zaid type entertainment/deconstruction on this dhaga. Onlee.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 15 Mar 2010 06:22

vera_k wrote: This should be a straight battle of ideas between Zaid Hamid PBUH and his secular mirror images on Indian television. If the secular types cannot serve as a foil for ZH, they have no utility and will need to be discarded for an alternative.

Zaid Hamid is a remarkable rhetorician. He utilizes every trick in the book to urge his audiences that they are both victorious and right. He is an English speaking Islamic version of the fiery Christian preachers that one can hear on some channels.

His confidence in himself and Pakistani greatness and and his supercilous contempt for piffling Indians is a remarkable act. Zaid Hamid tries to give the impression that all of Pakistan consist of the RAPE who are admittedly wealthy AND beautiful people. His tries every hard to give the Paki, especially the RAPE confidence in Pakistan and all that is Pakistani. If I was a Paki RAPE I would feel confident, reassured and happy listening to Zaid Hamid. I say "RAPE" specifically because he makes repeated references of Pakistani greatness with regard to the hallmarks of a modern civilization like technology and industry - subjects which are probably closer to the heart of the average RAPE than the Abdul Paki. The other problem is that he uses Urdu. Urdu is Pakistan's link language - but is a native tongue only to about 10% of Pakistanis. But it certainly forms an important linguistic component used by the RAPE.

The problem for Zaid Hamid as I see it is that you can make RAPE proud of themselves but it is of no use. Pakistan's real trouble will lie in its inability to develop its economy to keep pace with its population growth. And that will mean more and more people for whom day to day survival issues become more important that anything else. Unless Zaid Hamid's words can vasectomize 50 million Paki males - his rhetoric can have only about as much impact as firing blanks into the air against an invading army.

For a young good looking and wealthy Paki who has a great education and a well paying job, Zaid Hamids words can be like magic - a feel good elixir at a time of some strife. But for an Ayesha Pakistani with 8 kids and husband not bringing home enough to feed howling kids - Zaid Hamid represents nothing more that an NDTV saas-bahu serial. The way I see things - there is no acknowledgement in Pakistan of where they are heading, and that is good for us in some ways (it is bad news as well, but that is another issue) . At least some Pakis seem to find solace in the positive feelgood stories being spouted by Zaid Hamid. If Pakis need feelgood speeches to feel better - they are welcome to have them - but those speeches will change nothing.

Zaid Hamid's views themselves do not represent anything new, revolutionary or unknown. He is a modern Quran preacher dressed and trained to serve a more sophisticated and young RAPE Paki audience. 1300 year old old wine. New bottle.

"We are Pakistani. We are Islamic. Islam is superior. The signs of superiority are all around. We will win. We are winning. It is written."

How much of this is new or revolutionary information?

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 15 Mar 2010 06:31

Rudradev wrote:In turn the Khans have staged this dog and pony show of a Congressional hearing on LeT. My guess is that it has to do with giving MMS' pro-US faction some breathing space, by showing us SDREs that gora Saab is indeed attentive to our terrorism concerns. Meanwhile on the ground, the US is placating the ISI over India's role in Afghanistan and arming the TSPA against India.

Whys is it now this pony show is being held when 2008 was when the mumbai attack happened. LET has been around since 2001 also.

Gerard · Post by **Gerard** » 15 Mar 2010 06:32

South Asian 'slave brides' causing concern in UK

Gerard · Post by **Gerard** » 15 Mar 2010 06:41

In search of the real Pakistan

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 15 Mar 2010 06:51

Political rhetoric to infuse pride and confidence in a people or in a nation is commonplace. Leave alone Goebbels or Zaid Hamid - Indian political parties have done various things to insidiously insert certain notions into Indians. I will do an equalequal now between Goebbels, Zaid Hamid, BJP and Kaangress.

BJP's India shining campaign was brought down using sarcasm and the truth (about India's shininess) by the opposition.

In a similar way "Sharm el Sheik" "Aman ki Asha" are being shown its place in history

The only point to note is that in both cases positive factors was sought to be infused, but that positivity could not get past the hurdle of reality when there were negative factors that made lies out of the propaganda of positivity. It is possible to push a lot of things as good, but beyond the hype - harsh reality is all that counts.

Zaid Hamid is too far off the mark to get very far. His rhetoric of 2008-2010 is no different from "Give a Hindu a blow at the right place and time and he will run" or" "I will have breakfast in Srinagar and Lunch in Delhi" Add an Inshallah to that. When Allah is willing my aunt could become my uncle no?

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 15 Mar 2010 06:58

Gerard wrote:In search of the real Pakistan

Ignorant guy

Aletheia
14 Mar 2010, 4:32PM

Pakistan is by no means perfect. But as a foreigner to it, I am conservative in telling it what it must do to change. The USA, my country, has many things which should change and our healthcare system and foreign policy are both points in need of renovation.

To the blogger who says why is it that the Hindu population (of Pakistan) which stood at 15-20% in 1947 is a paltry 1.6% now ? There is the same reason for the decrease in the Hindu population of Pakistan as is the decrease of the Muslim population of India.

The reason was the exchange of populations at the time of Partition.
In 1947, the Muslim population of India was about 27%, and now it is about 12%.

The bulk of the exchange came from people located near the border regions of both countries. Since India has a much larger breadth in territory and a bigger population than Pakistan, more Indian Muslims, especially of the interior and South, stayed.

GB4EVER
14 Mar 2010, 6:20PM

@Aletheia ,

Until the fall of Communism, there were hardly any Indian students in the UK, USA or Australia. Once India became free from the communits block, more Indian students started coming to the West. It is only after this that India made huge strides in IT, sciences etc. This is largely due to Indians studying in the West and Western universties setting up campuses in India.

I see a direct correlation between this phenomenon and India's economic growth.

Virupaksha · Post by **Virupaksha** » 15 Mar 2010 06:59

Shiv,

To an aam abdul/ayesha Zaid counts to zilch. But do even 1000000000000 aam abdul/ayesha count? It has been and will be the urban upper/middle class(rape) of a country which counts and they seem to have built up an audience for this Zaid.

arun · Post by **arun** » 15 Mar 2010 07:10

Sunni cleric Maulana Abdul Ghafoor Nadeem of the Ahl-i-Sunnat Wal Jamaat who was also affiliated to the Sipah-i-Sahaba, succumbs to his injuries and gets his 72.

It will be recollected that the Maulana was shot at in a Karachi style motorcycle borne attack on Thursday.

That same day in Karachi, Sunni cleric Mufti Saeed Ahmed Jalalpuri of the Aalmi Majlis-i-Tahaffuz-i-Khatm-i-Nabuat was also assassinated, an act in which Zaid Hamid has been implicated:

Ahl-i-Sunnat’s Ghafoor Nadeem passes away

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 15 Mar 2010 07:16

ravi_ku wrote:Shiv,

To an aam abdul/ayesha Zaid counts to zilch. But do even 1000000000000 aam abdul/ayesha count? It has been and will be the urban upper/middle class(rape) of a country which counts and they seem to have built up an audience for this Zaid.

Ravi as far as I am concerned I am quite happy to see you, anyone else and all Pakistanis take the attitude that 1000000000000 aam abdul/ayeshas do not count. The attitude is absolutely fine and dandy.

In fact for the US neither Paki Abduls nor does Indian mango man count for any more than a few yellow slanteye Viet Cong. It is in "US interests" to see its job done in AfPak and its planes/reactors sold no matter what the status of average Paki Abdul/Indian mango man might be.

However from an indian viewpoint - the status and development, and birth rates of mango man is vital to Indian future and India's economy.

Having spoken about the US and India, let me shift focus to Pakistan. Do the 1000000000000 aam abdul/ayeshas actually count?

Not for me. I don't give a flying fig about them. It is Zaid Hamid and the Pakistani army RAPE who have to see whether they count or not. I am sure they are beginning to find out.

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 15 Mar 2010 07:23

Gerard wrote:In search of the real Pakistan

Great weakness of the article:

...but because we are trying to argue against an ideology that has been purposely built up over 30 years with millions of dollars worth of foreign funding.

The ideology has built up over a much longer time than 30 years. And the foreign funding was not the determinative factor.

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 15 Mar 2010 07:29

arun wrote: That same day in Karachi, Sunni cleric Mufti Saeed Ahmed Jalalpuri of the Aalmi Majlis-i-Tahaffuz-i-Khatm-i-Nabuat ...

Sorry to be off-topic, but "Majlis-i-Tahaffuz-i-Khatm-i-Nabuat" seems to my (slowly Urdu-learning self) to mean "Assembly for the preservation of the finality of the Prophet". Have I mistranslated? Is this an explicitly anti-Qadiani group?

PS: answering my own question, with a yes.
http://www.khatm-e-nubuwwat.com.pk/kn/aboutus.html

vera_k · Post by **vera_k** » 15 Mar 2010 07:38

shiv wrote:The problem for Zaid Hamid as I see it is that you can make RAPE proud of themselves but it is of no use. Pakistan's real trouble will lie in its inability to develop its economy to keep pace with its population growth. And that will mean more and more people for whom day to day survival issues become more important that anything else. Unless Zaid Hamid's words can vasectomize 50 million Paki males - his rhetoric can have only about as much impact as firing blanks into the air against an invading army.

I am not concerned with what happens to the Pakis except as a secondary matter. Zaid Hamid PBUH and his Indian friends like Kuldip VHP_killed_Karkare Nayar are indulging in information arbitrage between Pakistani and Indian audiences. This garbage that is fed to the Pakistanis is then replayed to select Indian audiences. Getting Zaid Hamid PBUH on Indian media will put an end to this and force Indian media to defend itself or perish.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 15 Mar 2010 07:42

arun wrote:Sunni cleric Maulana Abdul Ghafoor Nadeem of the Ahl-i-Sunnat Wal Jamaat who was also affiliated to the Sipah-i-Sahaba, succumbs to his injuries and gets his 72.

Ahl-i-Sunnat’s Ghafoor Nadeem passes away

Take a look at the picture of Maulannu's funeral .

http://www.nation.com.pk/gallery

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 15 Mar 2010 07:44

vera_k wrote: Getting Zaid Hamid PBUH on Indian media will put an end to this and force Indian media to defend itself or perish.

No, it will merely prompt a whole industry of finding village idiots from remote Indian villages and presenting them as equal-equal, with all of them agreeing that ZH is a harmless nut and his existence exemplifies the amazing tolerance of Paki society and the Indian nuts are a threat to the future, not just of India, but of entire humanity.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 15 Mar 2010 07:45

There was once a hypothetical country (I am tempted to call it "Hyc**t", but let me call it Splitstan). Here is a cooked up allegorical story

Splitstan had 200 million people. A lot of people. People were its main export. The country had a northern half with 100 million people who were largely rural and poor. There were 90 million poor and 10 million relatively well off. The Southern half of the country had 100 million people. It had all the cities and industries, even the sea ports. The Southern half had 60 million rich and 40 million poor.

So in total. Splitstan had 200 million people. 70 million (about 33%) were rich and 130 million (about 70%) were poor. A lot of the money generated by the 70 million rich was being spent on the 130 million poor.

But one day there was great strife, and when the troubles ended, Splitstan was divided into two nations. North Splitstan and South Splitstan.

North Splitstan, with 100 milion people. 10% were rich. 90% were poor.
South Splitstan also had 100 million people, but 60% were rich and 40% were poor.

Immediately, the 60 million wealthy of the South were relieved of the need to contribute to the security and well being of the 90 million poor of North Splitstan. Simultaneously the North got a huge burden of poor people - which would leave the country poor for decades.

I tell this hypothetical tale with a hypothetical scenario in mind. The rich argicultural provinces of Punjab and Sindh would be better of if they did not have to cater for the security and well being of the people of NWFP and Balochistan. The latter two provinces (although of low population) are more rural and less productive industrially although they have mineral wealth. Together NWFP and Balochistan account for less than 20% of Pakistan population. I am not sure ho much they contribute to Pakistan's industrial production. But Balochistan is mineral rich.

If you remove the burden of Pakis' "poor masses" from the RAPE then the freedom of the RAPE to do what they usually do actually increases. They have a smaller internal troubles burden to look after. For this reason it may be important top allow Pakistan to fight to retain the loyalty of its provinces even as the rebels are given encouragement. If the new country actually gets formed - it could be more of a problem for India because a consolidated Punjab/Sindh will be more compact and more wealthy. But this is an assumption based on the theory that Pakistan agriculrutal and industrial wealth are mainly from Punjab and Sindh. I need to find figures on this.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 15 Mar 2010 07:46

vera_k wrote: Getting Zaid Hamid PBUH on Indian media

Is anyone stopping him from getting on India media?

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 15 Mar 2010 07:49

A_Gupta wrote:
No, it will merely prompt a whole industry of finding village idiots from remote Indian villages and presenting them as equal-equal, with all of them agreeing that ZH is a harmless nut and his existence exemplifies the amazing tolerance of Paki society and the Indian nuts are a threat to the future, not just of India, but of entire humanity.

This kind of things has to be exposed to the Indian public who are being fooled by this equal garbage.

Virupaksha · Post by **Virupaksha** » 15 Mar 2010 07:59

Shiv,

now can you add geopolitics to it - where if you dont control the bad north splitistan, some other will!! If Punjab doesnt spend its energies "controlling" NWFP, India/ Iran/China may and how they wield the control may not be beneficial to Punjab. So Punjab has to keep NWFP sufficiently disoriented and offbalance, so that they do not firm up and attack south -i.e. no progress in north. But also take care that some body else do not start playing games.

The decisive blow for Pakistan has to be given by India ala Bangladesh. Only then will we be able to control the outcome. The direction you are indicating can make even great Indian efforts to make Punjab the new NWFP for us unmanageable.

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 15 Mar 2010 08:03

^^^^
Shiv,
See this.

While the article points out that Punjab and Sindh are the richest provinces both in overall GDP and in per capita GDP, it also points out that

These {provincial} income disparities don’t tell the full story. There are considerable differences in the incomes of people living in different parts of the provinces. People in southern Punjab, which has become a centre of insurgency, probably have incomes less than half the provincial average; perhaps as low as one-third of those in the more prosperous districts of the province.

The same is the case in other provinces. In rural Sindh, for instance, income per capita is probably one-fifth that in Karachi. This is not surprising since Karachi is the country’s centre of industry, finance and international commerce.

PS: Read this as well.

IMO a Punjab+Sindh combo would fare no better in terms of rich/poor than Pakistan itself.

PPS: This too

THE poverty profile of Pakistan reveals that districts having highest infant mortality rate, lowest literacy and highest poverty rate are in Punjab that also has the highest income inequality in the country.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 15 Mar 2010 08:11

ravi_ku wrote:
now can you add geopolitics to it - where if you dont control the bad north splitistan, some other will!! If Punjab doesnt spend its energies "controlling" NWFP, India/ Iran/China may and how they wield the control may not be beneficial to Punjab. So Punjab has to keep NWFP sufficiently disoriented and offbalance, so that they do not firm up and attack south -i.e. no progress in north. But also take care that some body else do not start playing games.

The decisive blow for Pakistan has to be given by India ala Bangladesh. Only then will we be able to control the outcome. The direction you are indicating can make even great Indian efforts to make Punjab the new NWFP for us unmanageable.

The way I see it is that if the US and/or China can get a corridor via NWFP and Balochistan to Central Asia and still retain Pakjabi army cooperation that will be a win win for the US, China and the rump state of Pakjabistan. A settled Northern and Western province where military control is exerted by the US and massive aid is given to the Pakjabi army. Pakjabistan will retain most of its agri and industrial wealth minus the troublesome areas (people!!!) in the North and west, which will be the US's responsibilty, with Pakjabi help.

All this:
1) Does not require Indian involvement
2) India and Indian concerns can be ignored
3) Pakjab (the rump state) will be free to use its resources to fight war and otherwise irritate India.

The only thing the Paki army is losing is "strategic depth" - but a US guarantee can easily help Pakjabistan survive just like Taiwan or Japan survive with zero depth and despite a massive China next door. India cannot deliver any massive blows in NWFP or Balochistan. all blows are restricted to our borders only and this is where the US is fully capable of stepping in and keeping India in check militarily by helping is proxy, Pakistan.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 15 Mar 2010 08:13

A_Gupta wrote: IMO a Punjab+Sindh combo would fare no better in terms of rich/poor than Pakistan itself.

PPS: This too

THE poverty profile of Pakistan reveals that districts having highest infant mortality rate, lowest literacy and highest poverty rate are in Punjab that also has the highest income inequality in the country.

Thanks. One less worry.

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 15 Mar 2010 08:26

Shahbaz asks Taliban not to attack Punjab

http://www.thenews.com.pk/top_story_detail.asp?Id=27788

Punjab Chief Minister Shahbaz Sharif on Sunday asked the Taliban not to target the Punjab as the provincial government would not take dictation from outsiders.

...

He said that extremism and terrorism were the consequences of wrong policies of a dictator, General Pervez Musharraf, for which the country was paying a heavy price. He said the dictator enacted a bloodbath of innocent Muslims at the behest of others only to prolong his rule. He asked the Taliban not to target the Punjab as his government would not take dictation from outsiders.

....

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 15 Mar 2010 08:34

What ‘Punjabi’ Taliban?

http://www.thenews.com.pk/daily_detail.asp?id=229169

South Waziristan is an Indian outpost on Pakistani soil with a religious version of Mukti Bahini in place, the terror militia created by India in 1969 before its full-fledged and unprovoked invasion of East Pakistan two years later. The similarity is in using proxies. This is not an outlandish theory but an emerging fact anchored in hundreds of pieces of information and intelligence that Pakistani security forces have gathered from the western strip of Pakistan stretching from Balochistan and all the way to the tribal agencies in the north.

To simplify this, let’s start with the series of attacks on Lahore in the past fifteen months. Attacking Pakistan’s military and attacking Lahore has been an old Indian obsession.

...

But after 9/11, this flawed theory was taken by the Indians to a new place: Washington, along with the ideas of independent Balochistan, Pashtunistan and the alleged ‘lingo-ethnic’ divide in Pakistan.

...

It is interesting to see an overlap between this Indian security mindset and the TTP. This so-called Pakistani Taliban group attacks the same targets today that New Delhi’s security establishment has been focused on for decades: the army and Lahore.

‘Punjabi Taliban’ is another misnomer that serves the same agenda of forcing Pakistanis to see one another through lingo-ethnic glasses. There is no such thing in Pakistan. Those Pakistanis who volunteered with the Afghan Taliban or with Kashmiri freedom groups during the 1990s came from all linguistic backgrounds [Punjabi, Kashmiri, Sindhi, Pashtun, Urdu-speaking, and Balochs].

...

Pakistan’s political and military leaders should tell their friends in Washington that freezing the expansion in India’s role in Afghanistan is not enough. It should be accompanied by a cleansing within US policymaking circles to remove the poisonous Indian theories on Pakistan that so many within the US academia and media have embraced.

...

Pakistanis will also have to understand that they will pay a heavy price for insisting on securing their own interests in the region. And it’s not hard to identify the culprits. India won’t just roll over with punches. And there are lobbies in Washington that won’t simply let go of Afghanistan after experiencing the sweet taste of regional imperialism.

All terror in Pakistan is linked to South Waziristan, where Pakistanis are recruited, brainwashed and then used to kill other Pakistanis. South Waziristan has been turned into Pakistan’s Tibet or Xinjiang.

...

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 15 Mar 2010 08:36

Indian minister for higher level talks with Pakistan

http://www.thenews.com.pk/top_story_detail.asp?Id=27789

The minister expressed her ignorance when asked why when Pakistanis filling visa forms, they had to fill in a “religion” column specially when India professed that it was a secular state. She was frank to admit the external affairs ministry was besieged with visa requests, especially from Pakistan and that “this was a problem”. But looking ahead, she said if the Berlin Wall could come down, maybe in the future Saarc would adopt the EU model where one visa would allow travel in all Saarc countries.

The minister said her ministry was also going through a transformation where the ministries website would also have the Urdu and Arabic versions of the press releases and statements, which would also be SMS to the media as well.

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 15 Mar 2010 08:39

Senior military officials to attend Washington talks

http://www.dawn.com/wps/wcm/connect/daw ... -530-hh-01

Gen Ashfaq Parvez Kayani will be the first army chief to participate in the US-Pakistan strategic dialogue to be held here on March 24.

Also for the first time, the Americans are expected to include their defence secretary Robert Gates and national security adviser Gen James Jones.

ISI chief Gen Ahmed Shuja Pasha, who got one-year extension last week, will represent Pakistan’s security interests.

...

Although, as the prime minister said, the dialogue would be broad-based, the inclusion of such senior defence and security officials indicates that military and security issues would dominate.

But equally important is the need for reviving the Pakistani economy and Islamabad is expected to send a number of proposals on how it believes the United States can help achieve this target.

The Americans have indicated that they are willing to help, particularly in the energy sector where they are prepared to finance some major projects, which can be recognised as symbols of US support for Pakistan, like the Tarbela dam.

Pakistan, however, will have a major disadvantage in these talks as the country does not have a finance minister who would have been the second most important person in their team after the army chief.

...

The observers recalled that the US and Pakistan have been holding strategic talks for at least two decades now, without much progress.

sanjaykumar · Post by **sanjaykumar** » 15 Mar 2010 08:42

Classic Pakistani, they can't understand why India could be so savage in asking human beings their religion.

Ab kya kahye?

arun · Post by **arun** » 15 Mar 2010 08:44

The Islamic Republic of Pakistan has for months now talked about Indian involvement in terrorism there. However when it comes to the Islamic Republic putting the evidence on the table, there is always an excuse to not to put it on the table.

Is the Islamic Republic coming up against a well disguised Indian effort or simply against the fact that India is not involved as the Pakistani's themselves are proving quite efficient in exterminating their own?

More of the same from the Defence Minister of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan Chaudhry Ahmad Mukhtar

India involved in terror activities: Mukhtar

Published: March 15, 2010

Talking about Indian involvement in the terror activities in Pakistan, the minister said there was concrete evidence of Indian involvement, however, the matter was being probed by the government.

The Nation

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 15 Mar 2010 08:46

^^^^^^

This "blame Musharraf for everything" is endemic among the PML-N folks.

E.g., Law Minister of Punjab Rana Sanaullah of Punjab campaigned in recent by-elections with Sipah-e-Sahiba.

Some other PML idiot was defending it on TV. After some other specious arguments, he retreated to - "But they were banned by Musharraf", i.e., Musharraf had done it and therefore it was wrong.

The interviewer took that up and asked him, are you saying that Musharraf wrongly banned them?

This PML idiot was actually blathering yes, yes, when the PPP Motorma also on the show interrupted and reminded us all that during the Nawaz Sharif stint as PM during 1997-1999, the SSP had actually blown up the bridge to Raiwand that Sharif was going to travel over.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 15 Mar 2010 08:57

abhishek_sharma wrote:Indian minister for higher level talks with Pakistan

http://www.thenews.com.pk/top_story_detail.asp?Id=27789
The minister expressed her ignorance when asked why when Pakistanis filling visa forms, they had to fill in a “religion” column specially when India professed that it was a secular state.]

People from a religious extremist state will not understand why a secular country should have a religion column. They can prove their secular credentials by writing "sarvadharm" or "atheist" while the state can prove its secular credentials by providing a visa even a Paki whose religion is murder.

Anujan · Post by **Anujan** » 15 Mar 2010 09:00

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/15/world ... ctors.html

Under the cover of a benign government information-gathering program, a Defense Department official set up a network of private contractors in Afghanistan and Pakistan to help track and kill suspected militants, according to military officials and businessmen in Afghanistan and the United States.

Someone has their minds and hearts at the right place!

arun · Post by **arun** » 15 Mar 2010 09:09

abhishek_sharma wrote:What ‘Punjabi’ Taliban?

http://www.thenews.com.pk/daily_detail.asp?id=229169 ........... {Snipped}

Interesting to note that the rabidly anti Indian conspiracy theorist Ahmed Quraishi works for Geo TV which is owned by the Rahman family who also own the newspaper The News of “Aman Ki Ashaa” fame.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 15 Mar 2010 09:16

arun wrote:
abhishek_sharma wrote:What ‘Punjabi’ Taliban?

http://www.thenews.com.pk/daily_detail.asp?id=229169 ........... {Snipped}
Interesting to note that the rabidly anti Indian conspiracy theorist Ahmed Quraishi works for Geo TV which is owned by the Rahman family who also own the newspaper The News of “Aman Ki Ashaa” fame.

also from that link:

All terror in Pakistan is linked to South Waziristan, where Pakistanis are recruited, brainwashed and then used to kill other Pakistanis. South Waziristan has been turned into Pakistan’s Tibet or Xinjiang. Our strategists understand this. It is time for our public opinion to see this reality without the distortions created by the multimillion dollar media campaigns by foreign governments that want us to see our problems through their eyes.

This appears to be an appeal to Pakis to support a genocide in Waziristan.

That mean the Paki army is begging Pakis, via Ahmad Quraishi to be allowed to do Washington's work.

Now how about that!

The problem with all conspiracy theories is they start with "You are stupid. I know the truth.." If the listener does not accept that he is stupid, then the conspiracy theorist has a problem..

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 15 Mar 2010 09:21

abhishek_sharma wrote:Indian minister for higher level talks with Pakistan

http://www.thenews.com.pk/top_story_detail.asp?Id=27789

The minister expressed her ignorance when asked why when Pakistanis filling visa forms, they had to fill in a “religion” column specially when India professed that it was a secular state.

What is the takleef here for Pakistanis when their passports already carry the 'religion' column ? Pakistan is the only country, AFAIK, to have such a column in a passport.

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 15 Mar 2010 09:24

Bangladeshis also must enter religion, as you can verify by downloading the visa application form from the Indian High Commission in Dhaka.

It looks like India has separate forms for Bangladeshis, Pakistanis and everyone else. The Bangladeshi form I think makes it a little clear as to why religion is on the visa form. The heading for a whole section, including name, date of birth, religion, etc., is titled

2. Your Details: (AS IN PASSPORT)

Basically some Babu who designed the separate forms for Bangladeshis and Pakistanis included the fields on their passports. The form for all other foreigners does not have religion I think because most countries don't list religion on the passport.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 15 Mar 2010 09:25

Paki fear that Shia , Bohra, Ahmadi etc might write Islam as religion on the visa form. We all know these people are kaffir living in the land of pure Islam. OTOH, i would like to know how Indian Visa is granted to Pakistani. Hope the Indian officers follow the strict guidlines as followed by Amerikan or Canadian visa granters.

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 15 Mar 2010 09:26

Acharya wrote:
Whys is it now this pony show is being held when 2008 was when the mumbai attack happened. LET has been around since 2001 also.

I wouldn't read much into the timing. As RduraJi said, it was definetly a dog and pony show; were there any real decision-making heavyweights? Just a little noise that will be filtered out as TSP gets its billions.

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 15 Mar 2010 09:31

Prem wrote:Paki fear that Shia , Bohra, Ahmadi etc might write Islam as religion on the visa form. We all know these people are kaffir living in the land of pure Islam.

This may be the reason. There are lot of religious refugees in Pakistan and they want to come to India. Inside Pakistan they will pretend they are Sunni muslims but when they come to India they can be what they want - Ahmedis, Shia, Ismaili etc.