News - Osama Bin Laden - killed In Pakistan

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arnab
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Re: Breaking News - Osama Bin Laden - killed In Pakistan

Post by arnab »

Steve Coll says

http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/n ... laden.html

The initial circumstantial evidence suggests that the opposite is more likely—that bin Laden was effectively being housed under Pakistani state control. Pakistan will deny this, it seems safe to predict, and perhaps no convincing evidence will ever surface to prove the case. If I were a prosecutor at the United States Department of Justice, however, I would be tempted to call a grand jury. Who owned the land on which the house was constructed? How was the land acquired, and from whom? Who designed the house, which seems to have been purpose-built to secure bin Laden? Who was the general contractor? Who installed the security systems? Who worked there? Are there witnesses who will now testify as to who visited the house, how often, and for what purpose? These questions are not relevant only to the full realization of justice for the victims of September 11th.
Outside the Justice Department, other sections of the United States government will probably underplay any evidence of culpability by the Pakistani state or sections of the state, such as its intelligence service, I.S.I., in sheltering bin Laden. As ever, there are many other fish to fry in Islamabad and at the Army headquarters, in nearby Rawalpindi: an exit strategy from Afghanistan, which requires the greatest possible degree of coöperation from Pakistan that can be attained at a reasonable price; nuclear stability; and so on.

Pakistan’s military and intelligence service takes risks that others would not dare take because Pakistan’s generals believe that their nuclear deterrent keeps them safe from regime change of the sort under way in Libya, and because they have discovered over the years that the rest of the world sees them as too big to fail. Unfortunately, they probably are correct in their analysis; some countries, like some investment banks, do pose systemic risks so great that they are too big to fail, and Pakistan is currently the A.I.G. of nation-states. But that should not stop American prosecutors from following the law here as they would whenever any mass killer’s hideout is discovered.

Of course, Mullah Omar and Al Qaeda’s No. 2, Ayman al-Zawahiri, probably also enjoy refuge in Pakistan. The location of Mullah Omar, in particular, is believed by American officials to be well known to some Pakistani military and intelligence officers; Omar, too, they believe, is effectively under Pakistani state control. Perhaps the circumstantial evidence in the bin Laden case is misleading; only a transparent, thorough investigation by Pakistani authorities into how such a fugitive could have lived so long under the military’s nose without detection would establish otherwise. That sort of transparent investigation is unlikely to take place.
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Re: Breaking News - Osama Bin Laden - killed In Pakistan

Post by shiv »

VikramS wrote:
The elder bin Laden, a devout Muslim, had 11 known wives. Osama was the only child born to Alia, a beauty from Syria who preferred Parisian fashions to the veil. As a foreigner, she did not rank high in the family pecking order. Some members of the bin Laden clan have said her status was so lowly that she was known as ''the slave'' and her son as ''Ibn al Abeda'' - son of the slave.
Some sources close to the family believe his sense of alienation and rebellion began here. Others believe it arose later, when bin Laden was manoeuvred out of a major role in the construction firm by his older brothers.


Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/world/a-polite-co ... z1LFz2Nv7B
Image
Well who'da thunk it?

I have seen this image before - I just forgot who was who. Usama, Abdul, Achmet, Mahomet, Zoraya, Sheba.. they all look similar - same father. I find it difficult to judge male looks but some of the wimmens are certainly very pretty.
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Re: Breaking News - Osama Bin Laden - killed In Pakistan

Post by Klaus »

This is the time when all culprits under the ISI umbrella will try to stake out their own extensive security detail, we are going to see the whey separated from the yogurt big time here. IOW, ISI faithfuls within Haqqani network and Taliban will remain but will be pushed out to the periphery while the core group will shrink and consolidate as a stateless, non-allegiant terrorist group.

Perhaps, a paradigm shift coming up within the jihadi mindset that TSP, Unkil and India are no different, which makes them an easier target to eliminate. This is because this incident has shaken them so badly that they will lose and abandon all their streaks of opportunism and 'compromiser' labels to the ISI faithfuls.

Net result: ISI will compromise and survive, whereas core jihadis will show themselves and perish.
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Re: Breaking News - Osama Bin Laden - killed In Pakistan

Post by SaiK »

It is classified, and in use.. an advanced satellite was launched many a times in the past, (I guess track while scan/SAR/ISAR/x radar based sats). I doubt it has reached a live level as you would see in patriot games. But Raytheon is working on futuristic sat based FCRs [or it could early warning system] .
Last edited by SaiK on 03 May 2011 08:45, edited 1 time in total.
Anujan
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Re: Breaking News - Osama Bin Laden - killed In Pakistan

Post by Anujan »

Anantha wrote:24 hrs have passed after Obama has announced the Catch. No word from Paki Army or ISI. Where are the Hijdas hiding?
After OBL's capture, they are hiding Mullah Omar, Zawahiri, Dawood Ibrahim and a whole lot of others. OBL is *NOT* hiding in Pakistan anymore, I can say that with 400% certainty.
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Re: Breaking News - Osama Bin Laden - killed In Pakistan

Post by SSridhar »

Anindya wrote:
Pakistanis are facing the music in ABC, CNN, BBC, Times Now, Headlines Today and everywhere else
Most surprising was Rumsfeld's strong white washing of Pakistani crimes - wonder where that comes from.
Anindya, why should Rumsfeld's defence of TSP surprise you ?
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Re: Breaking News - Osama Bin Laden - killed In Pakistan

Post by rajanb »

if the earlier reports of Afghanistan estimated as having about $1 Trillion of natural resources is true, I do not think the US will leave in a hurry!

Which would mean that ISI and Kiya Nahin's life between a rock and a hard place will be long indeed! :rotfl:
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Re: Breaking News - Osama Bin Laden - killed In Pakistan

Post by Klaus »

Anujan wrote:
Anantha wrote:24 hrs have passed after Obama has announced the Catch. No word from Paki Army or ISI. Where are the Hijdas hiding?
After OBL's capture, they are hiding Mullah Omar, Zawahiri, Dawood Ibrahim and a whole lot of others.
Even after more than 24 hours, it does not cease to amaze me as to how the biggest fish in the pond was taken out. Now I can openly believe all those stories about Dawood Ibrahim living in a palatial bungalow in the heart of an uptown suburb in Karachi.

With all this being said, there is no other place other than TSP which will be prepared to house these keedas.
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Re: Breaking News - Osama Bin Laden - killed In Pakistan

Post by Airavat »

Image

Supporters of Jamiat Ulema Islam - Nazaryati shout slogans against the killing of Osama bin Laden in Quetta.
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Re: Breaking News - Osama Bin Laden - killed In Pakistan

Post by Anantha »

rajanb wrote:if the earlier reports of Afghanistan estimated as having about $1 Trillion of natural resources is true, I do not think the US will leave in a hurry!

Which would mean that ISI and Kiya Nahin's life between a rock and a hard place will be long indeed! :rotfl:
He who controls Af-Pak controls Middle East (read oil and other resources) and can keep a lid on India, see geography.
US will never leave Af-Pak
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Re: Breaking News - Osama Bin Laden - killed In Pakistan

Post by Anindya »

Anindya, why should Rumsfeld's defence of TSP surprise you ?
SS - the vehemence of his defense surprised me - same with al-trinidadi. Compared to it, the forthrightness of Brennan was much more refreshing. Similarly, I just saw McCain's response to the Pakistan question - far more pro-Pakistani, than I found comfortable.

My conspiracy theory is that - some of these retirees or near retirees face the prospect of being rewarded well after their retirement by Pakistan - much like KSA is known to do. Otherwise, this kind of vehemence in defending Pakistan in the face of overwhelming evidence is strange.

Rancid defense of of Pakistani motives is not going down well - you can see it for example both on MSNBC and Fox - the two extremes (in addition to blogs). So, I saw Hillary's putrid support for Pakistan, being shredded on Fox. So, what gives with Rumsfeld, Al-TRinidadi etc.
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Re: Breaking News - Osama Bin Laden - killed In Pakistan

Post by svinayak »

Anantha wrote:It is finally official all over US. TSP is TS
Americans I met said Pakis looked at them in an embarrassed manner today with a weird look and Americans equally pissed giving thema strange look.
I heard kids in school saying Paks are planning to attack US now.

At least 1-2 generation are going to have strong impressions on TSP. OBL is a stick that we can beat the Pakis with for a while now.
I met a top Pak American CEO. He was cool as if nothing had happened. Americans around him were generally the same way
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Re: Breaking News - Osama Bin Laden - killed In Pakistan

Post by Ambar »

oh the pandas and their strange sense of humor! :roll:
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Re: Breaking News - Osama Bin Laden - killed In Pakistan

Post by Muppalla »

I work with them all around me. Pakis are very anxious and I would say they are scared.
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Re: Breaking News - Osama Bin Laden - killed In Pakistan

Post by ramana »

Airavat looks like an eclectic mix of black(Taleban) and white(AlQ) turbans.


Mango Pakis are quite apprehensive but uber RAPE act with disdain.
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Re: Breaking News - Osama Bin Laden - killed In Pakistan

Post by Muppalla »

The Rachel Maddow show on MSNBC is just ripping and raping Pakistan.
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Re: Breaking News - Osama Bin Laden - killed In Pakistan

Post by Anant »

All Pakistanis I've met are scum bags. This is especially true of white collar professionals in the US. They pretend to be secular and accommodating to the Indian view point, when Indians are around. When Indians are away, they revert to their true Jihadi selves. It's part of their genetic heritage and ground into their DNA. They will never change. Ever.
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Re: Breaking News - Osama Bin Laden - killed In Pakistan

Post by CRamS »

Guys, please watch MSNBC. She is ripping TSP arse big time. But based on her narrative, something we all know, its obvious US hands stink big time too and hence the brotherly love between CIA and ISI.
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Re: Breaking News - Osama Bin Laden - killed In Pakistan

Post by Purush »

Charlie wrote:
amdavadi wrote:Bill O doing an awasome job....He is saying ISI got to pay for keeping this guy hidden for so long.

Some of it is here... a 6 min video..

http://video.foxnews.com/#/v/4673508/a- ... t_id=87937
Oh boy..BOR really tore the pacquis a new one. He even called Musharrador 'you phony' :((
I wish our ddm was so direct...

Here are some screengrabs that summarize the clip in order as easy-to-swallow soundbytes.
Please feel free to disseminate as necessary...these points must be driven home among the uninformed

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Re: Breaking News - Osama Bin Laden - killed In Pakistan

Post by sum »

^^Cant understand SV article in Chindu today...his first line says that "US did a great thing by raiding Pak and finishing Osama" and the same guy is the first to rush to defend Pak when India makes any noises to get at Dawood/Hafeez etc? :-?

Btw, Chidambaram mentioned on NDTV yesterday that anyone expecting such action from India was living in fool's paradise!!! :| :|
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Re: Breaking News - Osama Bin Laden - killed In Pakistan

Post by ramana »

Some ex Chief chef on Greta's show was saying that its a fallout of relations between them and eye yes eye.
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Re: Breaking News - Osama Bin Laden - killed In Pakistan

Post by rajanb »

Good the Chinese are saying this! Now the AQ's will go after the Kiya Nahins with a vengeance!
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Re: Breaking News - Osama Bin Laden - killed In Pakistan

Post by SSridhar »

Klaus wrote: Now I can openly believe all those stories about Dawood Ibrahim living in a palatial bungalow in the heart of an uptown suburb in Karachi.
Klaus, Dawood's presence in Pakistan is a well known open secret, well documented and well proved. Much, much more so than the Americans ever had information about OBL at Abbottabad.
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Re: Breaking News - Osama Bin Laden - killed In Pakistan

Post by ramana »

From Spinster by e-mail

The helicopter used in the operation was SIrkosky UH60, it is a variant of Black Hawk.

refer http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:MH-60L_DAP.jpg



and if you right click the image you get this



http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c ... 750pix.jpg



http://www.google.co.in/imgres?imgurl=h ... sch&itbs=1





http://www.google.co.in/imgres?imgurl=h ... sch&itbs=1
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Re: Breaking News - Osama Bin Laden - killed In Pakistan

Post by svinayak »

Not everyone believes Osama is dead
http://www.zeenews.com/Special/story.as ... aid=703787
Updated on Tuesday, May 03, 2011, 09:36
Washington: Knowing there would be disbelievers, the US says it used convincing means to confirm Osama bin Laden`s identity during and after the firefight that killed him. But the mystique that surrounded the terrorist chieftain in life is persisting in death.

Was it really him? How do we know? Where are the pictures?

Already, those questions are spreading in Pakistan and surely beyond. In the absence of photos and with his body given up to the sea, many people don`t believe bin Laden — the Great Emir to some, the fabled escape artist of the Tora Bora mountains to foe and friend alike — is really dead.

US officials are balancing that skepticism with the sensitivities that might be inflamed by showing images they say they have of the dead al Qaeda leader and video of his burial at sea. Still, it appeared likely that photographic evidence would be produced.

"We are going to do everything we can to make sure that nobody has any basis to try to deny that we got Osama bin Laden," John Brennan, President Barack Obama`s counterterrorism adviser, said Monday. He said the US will "share what we can because we want to make sure that not only the American people but the world understand exactly what happened."

In July 2003, the US took heat but also quieted most conspiracy theorists by releasing graphic photos of the corpses of Saddam Hussein`s two powerful sons to prove American forces had killed them.

So far, the US has cited evidence that satisfied the Navy SEAL force, and at least most of the world, that they had the right man in Abbottabad, Pakistan.

The helicopter-borne raiding squad that swarmed the luxury compound identified bin Laden by appearance. A woman in the compound who was identified as his wife was said to have called out bin Laden`s name in the melee.

Officials produced a quick DNA match from his remains that they said established bin Laden`s identity, even absent the other techniques, with 99.9 percent certainty. US officials also said bin Laden was identified through photo comparisons and other methods.

Tellingly, an al Qaeda spokesman, in vowing vengeance against America, called him a martyr, offering no challenge to the US account of his death.

Even so, it`s almost inevitable that the bin Laden mythology will not end with the bullet in his head. If it suits extremist ends to spin a fantastical tale of survival or trickery to gullible ears, expect to hear it.

In the immediate aftermath, people in Abbottabad expressed widespread disbelief that bin Laden had died — or ever lived — among them.

"I`m not ready to buy bin Laden was here," said Haris Rasheed, 22, who works in a fast food restaurant. "How come no one knew he was here and why did they bury him so quickly? This is all fake — a drama, and a crude one."

Kamal Khan, 25, who is unemployed, said the official story "looks fishy to me".

The burial from an aircraft carrier in the North Arabian Sea was videotaped aboard the ship, according to a senior defense official who spoke on condition of anonymity because a decision on whether to release the video was not final. The official said it was highly likely that the video, along with photographs of bin Laden`s body, would be made public in coming days.

The swiftness of the burial may have raised suspicions but was in accord with Islamic traditions. Islamic scholars, however, challenged US assertions that a burial at sea was an appropriate fate for a Muslim who had died on land.

The act denied al Qaeda any sort of burial shrine for their slain leader. Once again, bin Laden had vanished, but this time at the hands of the United States and in a way that ensures he is gone forever.

If that satisfies US goals and its sense of justice, Brad Sagarin, a psychologist at Northern Illinois University who studies persuasion, said the rapid disposition of the body "would certainly be a rich sort of kernel for somebody to grasp onto if they were motivated to disbelieve this."

Also expected to come out is a tape made by bin Laden, before US forces bore down on him, that may provide fodder to those who insist he is alive.

Pakistan, for one, is a land of conspiracy theorists, and far-fetched rumors abound on the streets and in blogs throughout the Arab world. But that`s not just a characteristic of the Islamic pipeline. Many ordinary Americans — and one billionaire — persistently questioned whether Obama was born in the US despite lacking any evidence that he wasn`t.

Sagarin said most people will probably be convinced bin Laden is dead because they cannot imagine the government maintaining such an extraordinary lie to the contrary in this day and age.

Yet, he said, "as with the birther conspiracy, there`s going to be a set of people who are never going to be convinced. People filter the information they receive through their current attitudes, their current perspectives."

To be sure, even photos and video, subject to digital manipulation, may not provide the final word to everyone. But Seth Jones, a RAND Corp. political scientist who advised the commander of US special operations forces in Afghanistan, said the administration should do all it can to minimize doubts.

"There are always conspiracy theories," he said. "There are individuals who believe that bin Laden wasn`t involved in the 9/11 attacks."
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Re: Breaking News - Osama Bin Laden - killed In Pakistan

Post by abhishek_sharma »

The Secret Team That Killed bin Laden

http://nationaljournal.com/whitehouse/t ... n-20110502
From Ghazi Air Base in Pakistan, the modified MH-60 helicopters made their way to the garrison suburb of Abbottabad, about 70 miles from the center of Islamabad. Aboard were Navy SEALs, flown across the border from Afghanistan, along with tactical signals, intelligence collectors, and navigators using highly classified hyperspectral imagers.
After bursts of fire over 40 minutes, 22 people were counted, and five were killed. One of the dead was Osama bin Laden, done in by a double tap -- boom, boom -- to the left side of his face. His body was aboard the choppers that made the trip back. One had experienced mechanical failure and was destroyed by U.S. forces, military and White House officials tell National Journal.
Were it not for this high-value target, it might have been a routine mission for the specially trained and highly mythologized SEAL Team Six, officially called the Naval Special Warfare Development Group, but known even to the locals at their home base Dam Neck in Virginia as just DevGru.
This HVT was special, and the raids required practice, so they replicated the one-acre compound. Trial runs were held in early April.

DevGru belongs to the Joint Special Operations Command, an extraordinary and unusual collection of classified standing task forces and special-missions units. They report to the president and operate worldwide based on the legal (or extra-legal) premises of classified presidential directives. Though the general public knows about the special SEALs and their brothers in Delta Force, most JSOC missions never leak. We only hear about JSOC when something goes bad (a British aid worker is accidentally killed) or when something really big happens (a merchant marine captain is rescued at sea), and even then, the military remains especially sensitive about their existence. Several dozen JSOC operatives have died in Pakistan over the past several years. Their names are released by the Defense Department in the usual manner, but with a cover story -- generally, they were killed in training accidents in eastern Afghanistan. That’s the code.

How did the helos elude the Pakistani air defense network? Did they spoof transponder codes? Were they painted and tricked out with Pakistan Air Force equipment? If so -- and we may never know -- two other JSOC units, the Technical Application Programs Office and the Aviation Technology Evaluation Group, were responsible. These truly are the silent squirrels -- never getting public credit and not caring one whit. Since 9/11, the JSOC units and their task forces have become the U.S. government’s most effective and lethal weapon against terrorists and their networks, drawing plenty of unwanted, and occasionally unflattering, attention to themselves in the process.
JSOC costs the country more than $1 billion annually. The command has its critics, but it has escaped significant congressional scrutiny and has operated largely with impunity since 9/11. Some of its interrogators and operators were involved in torture and rendition, and the line between its intelligence-gathering activities and the CIA's has been blurred.
But Sunday’s operation provides strong evidence that the CIA and JSOC work well together. Sometimes intelligence needs to be developed rapidly, to get inside the enemy’s operational loop. And sometimes it needs to be cultivated, grown as if it were delicate bacteria in a petri dish.
In an interview at CIA headquarters two weeks ago, a senior intelligence official said the two proud groups of American secret warriors had been “deconflicted and basically integrated” -- finally -- 10 years after 9/11. Indeed, according to accounts given to journalists by five senior administration officials Sunday night, the CIA gathered the intelligence that led to bin Laden’s location. A memo from CIA Director Leon Panetta sent Sunday night provides some hints of how the information was collected and analyzed. In it, he thanked the National Security Agency and the National Geospatial-Intelligence Agency for their help. NSA figured out, somehow, that there was no telephone or Internet service in the compound. How it did this without Pakistan’s knowledge is a secret. The NGIA makes the military’s maps but also develops their pattern recognition software -- no doubt used to help establish, by February of this year, that the CIA could say with “high probability” that bin Laden and his family were living there.

Recently, JSOC built a new Targeting and Analysis Center in Rosslyn, Va. Where the National Counterterrorism Center tends to focus on threats to the homeland, TAAC, whose existence was first disclosed by the Associated Press, focuses outward, on active “kinetic” -- or lethal -- counterterrorism missions abroad.

That the center could be stood up under the nose of some of the nation’s most senior intelligence officials without their full knowledge testifies to the power and reach of JSOC, whose size has tripled since 9/11. The command now includes more than 4,000 soldiers and civilians. It has its own intelligence division, which may or may not have been involved in last night’s effort, and has gobbled up a number of free-floating Defense Department entities that allowed it to rapidly acquire, test, and field new technologies.

Under a variety of standing orders, JSOC is involved in more than 50 current operations spanning a dozen countries, and its units, supported by so-called "white," or acknowledged, special operations entities like Rangers, Special Forces battalions, SEAL teams, and Air Force special ops units from the larger Special Operations Command, are responsible for most of the “kinetic” action in Afghanistan.

Pentagon officials are conscious of the enormous stress that 10 years of war have placed on the command. JSOC resources are heavily taxed by the operational tempo in Afghanistan and Pakistan, officials have said. The current commander, Vice Adm. William McRaven, and Maj. Gen. Joseph Votel, McRaven’s nominated replacement, have been pushing to add people and intelligence, surveillance, and reconnaissance technology to areas outside the war theater where al-Qaida and its affiliates continue to thrive.

Earlier this year, it seemed that the elite units would face the same budget pressures that the entire military was experiencing. Not anymore. The military found a way, largely by reducing contracting staff and borrowing others from the Special Operations Command, to add 50 positions to JSOC. And Votel wants to add several squadrons to the “Tier One” units -- Delta and the SEALs.
When Gen. Stanley McChrystal became JSOC’s commanding general in 2004, he and his intelligence chief, Maj. Gen. Michael Flynn, set about transforming the way the subordinate units analyze and act on intelligence. Insurgents in Iraq were exploiting the slow decision loop that coalition commanders used, and enhanced interrogation techniques were frowned upon after the Abu Ghraib scandal. But the hunger for actionable tactical intelligence on insurgents was palpable.

The way JSOC solved this problem remains a carefully guarded secret, but people familiar with the unit suggest that McChrystal and Flynn introduced hardened commandos to basic criminal forensic techniques and then used highly advanced and still-classified technology to transform bits of information into actionable intelligence. One way they did this was to create forward-deployed fusion cells, where JSOC units were paired with intelligence analysts from the NSA and the NGA. Such analysis helped the CIA to establish, with a high degree of probability, that Osama bin Laden and his family were hiding in that particular compound.

These technicians could “exploit and analyze” data obtained from the battlefield instantly, using their access to the government’s various biometric, facial-recognition, and voice-print databases. These cells also used highly advanced surveillance technology and computer-based pattern analysis to layer predictive models of insurgent behavior onto real-time observations.
The military has begun to incorporate these techniques across the services. And Flynn will soon be promoted to a job within the Office of the Director of National Intelligence, where he’ll be tasked with transforming the way intelligence is gathered, analyzed, and utilized.
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Re: Breaking News - Osama Bin Laden - killed In Pakistan

Post by Klaus »

rajanb wrote:Good the Chinese are saying this! Now the AQ's will go after the Kiya Nahins with a vengeance!
Is there anyway the Xinhua report can be discredited. It is full of cr@p:
From Xinhua:

At about 1:20 a.m. local time a Pakistani helicopter was shot down by unknown people in the Sikandarabad area of Abbotabad. The Pakistani forces launched a search operation in the nearby area and encountered with a group of unknown armed people. A fire exchange followed between the two sides.

When the fire exchange ended, the Pakistani forces arrested some Arab women and kids as well some other armed people who later confessed to the Pakistani forces they were with Osama Bin laden when the fire was exchanged and Bin Laden was killed in the firing.

Local media reported that after the dead body of Bin Laden was recovered, two U.S. helicopter flew to the site and carried away the dead body of Bin Laden.
The report also suggests that Bin Laden may have been killed in the air crash, rather than in a fire fight.
Looks like Xinhua is getting its news feeds directly from core ISI brass. Dont these jokers know when to drop the pretense?

SSridhar ji, I'm not doubting Dawood Ibrahim's presence in TSP. My comment referred to the fact that I found it hard to believe that he was not living an outlaw's existence, like OBL was supposed to be (in the caves of Tora Bora, I mean real caves), until yesterday!
Last edited by Klaus on 03 May 2011 09:25, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Breaking News - Osama Bin Laden - killed In Pakistan

Post by Hari Seldon »

Would be great if posters suddenly start appearing in urban hubs in Pakjab and sindh (truthfully) accusing pakfauj and the ISI brass of doing *nothing* to prevent OBL from being killed whilst greedily accepting huge sums from the killers of the sheikh, eh? LOL.

Some posters might go even further giving names, rank, military ID nums and full addresses of the treacherous PA/ISI honchos responsible.... (if possible, even their swiss a/c nums...)

So what if the posters printed are 'counterfeit', eh? Pak has plenty of experience printing counterfeit stuff anyway, as any Yindoo official can testify to.
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Re: Breaking News - Osama Bin Laden - killed In Pakistan

Post by UBanerjee »

prithvi wrote:
UBanerjee wrote: Good to see him pressing the issue.
whts the deal with calling him the President?
It's a traditional courtesy in the US to refer to former presidents as "Mr. President".
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Re: Breaking News - Osama Bin Laden - killed In Pakistan

Post by Karna_A »

Why use Navy Seals instead of Delta for such operation?

Isn't Delta more suitable for this kind of combat?
Which brings to mind that are Indian MARCOS trained differently than Seals, since they were taken off during 26/11.
Roughly National Guards are like Deltas and MARCOS like SEALS, or the training in both is so much similar that they could do both.

Could MARCOS have continued the 26/11 fight and killed atleast a few of the piglets.
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Re: Breaking News - Osama Bin Laden - killed In Pakistan

Post by Altair »

CRamS wrote:Guys, please watch MSNBC. She is ripping TSP arse big time. But based on her narrative, something we all know, its obvious US hands stink big time too and hence the brotherly love between CIA and ISI.
By God! She is tearing'em apart. She mentions, ramzi bin al shaeb, abu zubeida,khalid sheikh...Who is she! The venom she has is deadly!
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Re: Breaking News - Osama Bin Laden - killed In Pakistan

Post by abhishek_sharma »

Frenemies: U.S. ally in hot seat after bin Laden found in Pakistani army town

http://news.yahoo.com/s/yblog_theenvoy/ ... -army-town
U.S. officials have left little doubt that they did not sufficiently trust Pakistani officials to keep quiet on a plan to send a team of U.S. special forces and CIA operatives into the country on Sunday to kill Osama bin Laden. And now that the whole world knows U.S. forces found and killed bin Laden in a large, conspicuously fortified compound in an affluent Pakistani military town less than forty miles from the Pakistani capital of Islamabad, American officials are likewise making it clear that they don't fully buy the Pakistani government's see-no-evil line on bin Laden's whereabouts. It's hard for Pakistani military leaders in particular to make a credible case that they were shocked--shocked!--to learn bin Laden was right there under their noses; the Paksitani army, after all, has a college in Abbottabad only a few hundred feet from the compound where bin Laden was found and killed.

"It's inconceivable that Bin Laden did not have a support system inside the country," White House counter-terrorism adviser John Brennan told journalists at the White House press conference Monday.Bin Laden's "presence outside the capital raises questions we are discussing with Pakistani officials," he said. But Pakistani officials profess themselves to be "as surprised as we were that bin Laden was holding out in that area," he added.

In other words--gimme a break.

And in revisiting the highly classified commando operation for reporters, Brennan pointedly reiterated the degree to which American officials kept their Pakistani counterparts out of the loop about the details of its execution. To carry out the 40 minute raid, Brennan explained, U.S. military planners had to take pains to move in and out of the country without having to shoot at Pakistani military forces:

"We were watching to make sure we could get out of Pakistani air space and to minimize the prospect of engagement with Pakistani forces," Brennan described. "No Pakistani forces were engaged. There were no forces killed aside from those on the compound."

Welcome to the twilight zone alliance between the United States and Pakistan--alleged allies who sometimes seem to be double-crossing enemies--or what American high school students would call frenemies.

But Brennan's further comments also explain why the U.S.-Pakistani alliance, for all its "ambiguity," mutual secrets, and occasionally covert but sometimes outright armed hostility, is one that neither country can live without.

"I will point out, that while we have had differences of view on counterterrorism cooperation on what we think they should and should not be doing, Pakistan has been responsible for capturing and killing more terrorists than any other country and by a wide margin," Brennan said. "And many Pakistanis have given their lives ... Although there are some differences of views, we believe our partnership is critically important to breaking the back of al Qaeda."

So why do elements of the Pakistani security services persist in supporting the jihadi terrorists trying to kill U.S.-led forces in Afghanistan and Afghans? And why can't the United States just declare Pakistan a hostile enemy, if that's how significant reaches of Pakistani officialdom are behaving?

There is no simple answer--but the basic truth here is that the United States would be in far worse shape without even the highly imperfect Pakistani government cooperation American officials are now getting. For all the shortcomings of the current U.S.-Pakistani alliance, it would be far worse for the United States to be confronting an openly hostile South Asian terrorist-backing state that has the fastest growing nuclear arsenal in the world and a bitter ongoing fixation on the ambitions of neighboring rival India.

Still, the U.S. discovery of bin Laden in a million dollar, highly fortified compound in the Pakistani military town of Abbottabad, population 90,000, on property only a few hundred feet from major Pakistani military installations, is certainly bringing out into the open what has more often been discussed behind closed doors between U.S. and Pakistani spy chiefs and generals.

"There's no question that once dust settles a little bit that Pakistan is going to be brought under a very harsh light," said former Deputy Secretary of State Richard Armitage, who has worked closely with Pakistani civilian and military leaders. "It's not credible that this could guy could live as close to the Pakistani equivalent of Sandhurst"--the elite British military training school--"and someone in Pakistani intelligence did not see outside his villa. That raises questions of its own."
While "it puts a harsher spotlight on Pakistan, it does not however relieve the U.S. of the need to try to work with Pakistan in particular for the betterment of Afghanistan," Armitage added.

"In the short run, this has the potential to make U.S.-Pakistan relations even worse," said Daniel Markey, a South Asian expert with the Council on Foreign Relations. "It is an embarrassment for Pakistan's military and intelligence, given the location, and it follows on the heels of these other 'violations of Pakistani territorial sovereignty'--drones, [CIA contractor] Raymond Davis. From our perspective, it is just more evidence that the Pakistanis are either too incompetent or too complicit to be good partners."

Markey mused there could be a potential silver lining in Osama's killing--but only "if it helps to convince Pakistan's leaders that the United States has the will, capacity, and commitment to go after its enemies and that Pakistan ought not to continue to be an active (or even passive) supporter for these groups."

Gretchen Peters, the former ABC News bureau chief in Pakistan and author of Seeds of Terror: How Heroin Is Bankrolling the Taliban and al Qaeda, said that the current Pakistan dilemma stems from the 1980s. Back then, she explains, Pakistani security and intelligence services forged training and strategic ties with jihadi groups sent over to fight proxy wars against the Soviet forces in Afghanistan (with covert U.S. support), as well as in India in Kashmir. Those formative alliances only strengthened over time--and now, Peters notes, they're very hard for Pakistan to break.

Abbottabad, the town where bin Laden was found, "is one of these places in Pakistan where militancy and the [Pakistani] military are in close proximity," Peters said. Indeed, she notes, it's close to other Pakistani towns that formerly housed mujahadeen and other jihadi group training camps since the '80s.

Peters added she always expected that bin Laden would be "found in a well-guarded compound in a [Pakistani] city, not in a cave." Why? "Because it is easier to hide in places like that," she said.
The compound where bin Laden was discovered is in a relatively new, private military development in Abbottabad, that was built in 2005.
While U.S. officials have not publicly identified the al Qaeda courier they tracked in order to find bin Laden, the Weekly Standard's Thomas Joscelyn reported that a recently leaked U.S. military cable from the detention facility at Guantanamo Bay names an al Qaeda courier close to bin Laden--Maulawi Abd al-Khaliq Jan--who seems to fits the description provided by U.S. officials. The Associated Press reported that the courier is Kuwaiti.
U.S. security officials said they were "shocked" at the conspicuously over-the-top security features of the sprawling compound in the affluent development when they saw it--including 12-18 foot fortification walls topped by barbed wire, a property size roughly eight times larger than others in the area, trash from the compound burnt inside rather than put on the street for collection. Particularly striking for a property they valued at a million dollars, they noted, the facility had no phone lines or Internet connections.
But Peters said that while the specifications are perhaps more extreme, "there are lots of [thick-walled, fortified] houses like that in Pakistan. It's much easier to hide in a [newer development] community like that where the neighbors don't actually know each other than in a small village where the entire village knows each other."
Several major al Qaeda figures have been arrested by Pakistani authorities since 9/11--including Ramzi bin al-Shibh in a Karachi apartment building, Abu Zubaydah in Faisalbad, 9/11 mastermind Khalid Shaikh Mohammad, in Rawalpindi or Quetta (depending on who you ask).

It's that sort of cooperation that Brennan praised in his remarks Monday, while making clear the United States is not going to endlessly accept Pakistani excuses for turning a blind eye to forces within its own security structure providing support to the terrorists killing Americans. After all, Brennan notes, such forces are also killing Pakistani citizens.

"The president feels very strongly that the people of Pakistan need to realize their potential for lives of prosperity and security," Brennan said. "And because of the militant organizations in that country, too many Pakistanis have died."
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Re: Breaking News - Osama Bin Laden - killed In Pakistan

Post by Prem »

Ralph Peter on Bill O'Riely Factor tore Poak Musharraf like peanut. In his opinion, OBL was ISI's hostage .
Anotherthing i am wondering if the Chopper blown by special forces belonged to Poaks. PA might have sent the chooper to pick HVT OBL and his family once radar screen went blank but bit late as GODO Guy were already there looking for the Chief guest of Pakistani government Mr Usama Bin Laden .
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Re: Breaking News - Osama Bin Laden - killed In Pakistan

Post by kmkraoind »

I think there is a more big op than what had been described. They are saying that two helis were used and one was done. It means they have only one heli to carry 24 seals, 2-3 dead bodies, electronic gear and at least 4-5 gunny bags or big boxes of papers, DVDs, HDDs and other evidence. Is it possible for one attack heli to have a cabin space enough to carry this much of load safely back to Afgan.
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Re: Breaking News - Osama Bin Laden - killed In Pakistan

Post by kmkraoind »

I call it true democracy for people. See the military guy with stripes sitting in a cosy center chair, while President Obama sitting humbly in the side in a small chair. I cannot imagine this in India (democracy for netas).
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Re: Breaking News - Osama Bin Laden - killed In Pakistan

Post by sum »

From Orbat:
#

Bye Bye Osama: We will so not miss you As a professional mea culpa, Editor has to admit he (a) was surprised the man was still alive, and (b) that his huge and expensive compound was built within 750-meters of the Pakistan Military Academy. So its no secret ISI was protecting OBL, but its kind of really sticking your thumb in so-called ally's eye to locate OBL adjacent to your premier officer training academy. Having used the adage "Darkest below the lamp" as an operational motto in matters small and big, Editor is familiar with the ISI concept of housing OBL. Still, it takes a lot of guts and a lot of gall to do as ISI did. Our congratulations to them.
#

This mansion looked to be the biggest compound/house in the garrison town, and aside from the almost 6-meter walls, it had no telephone or internet connection. Pakistan, like India, is a country where everyone knows everyone, and your business is everyone's business. This again shows ISI's gall, because such a compound would attract constant gossip and interest from everyone around. Particularly as the ancient "owner" had no source of wealth, and SUVs kept going in and out.
#

Anyway. Reader Luxembourg wonders if Raymond Davis was part of the team assigned to watch OBL. Anything is possible, but remember the US has several hundred contractors/non-official cover people in Pakistan, if not a thousand or so. We did think he must have been an important person for the US to tell Pakistan "Give him back or its all over, Baby Blue". After all, spies and operators get busted all the time. Gentlemen come to a quiet accommodation after the fuss is over, and an exchange is done, everyone saves face etc etc. You don't go nuclear unless the person is someone you really, really must have back before the Pakistanis started pulling out his toenails. Still, we assume in the next couple of years there will be at least five books with the title "How I caught OBL" particularly from old codgers who stayed on past retirement because they'd made a vow to get OBL or else, and who can now speak up. So lets see what we will see.
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Re: Breaking News - Osama Bin Laden - killed In Pakistan

Post by sum »

kmkraoind wrote:I think there is a more big op than what had been described. They are saying that two helis were used and one was done. It means they have only one heli to carry 24 seals, 2-3 dead bodies, electronic gear and at least 4-5 gunny bags or big boxes of papers, DVDs, HDDs and other evidence. Is it possible for one attack heli to have a cabin space enough to carry this much of load safely back to Afgan.
Most reports talk of 4 MH-60s....not too sure about the 2 part.
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Re: Breaking News - Osama Bin Laden - killed In Pakistan

Post by ramana »

If you step back a bit the outrage that OBL was camping out in a garrison town outside the PMA Kakul has masked the outrage that US has carried out a four heli copter strong raid deep into TSP a la Entebbe and a clear violation of sovereign rights!

Its a clear case of TSP foisted on own petard!
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Re: Breaking News - Osama Bin Laden - killed In Pakistan

Post by abhishek_sharma »

Was burying bin Laden at sea a mistake?

http://news.yahoo.com/s/yblog_thelookou ... -a-mistake
The sea burial "runs contrary to the principles of Islamic laws, religious values and humanitarian customs," Sheik Ahmed al-Tayeb, the grand Imam of Cairo's al-Azhar mosque, told the AP.

And Mohammed al-Qubaisi, Dubai's grand mufti, echoed that view. "If the family does not want him, it's really simple in Islam: You dig up a grave anywhere, even on a remote island, you say the prayers and that's it."

He added: "Sea burials are permissible for Muslims in extraordinary circumstances," he added. "This is not one of them."

And Abdul-Sattar al-Janabi, who preaches at Baghdad's Abu Hanifa mosque declared: "It is not acceptable, and it is almost a crime to throw the body of a Muslim man into the sea," adding that the action "might provoke some Muslims."
One unwary phone call led US to bin Laden doorstep

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110502/ap_ ... _bin_laden
When one of Osama bin Laden's most trusted aides picked up the phone last year, he unknowingly led U.S. pursuers to the doorstep of his boss, the world's most wanted terrorist.

That phone call, recounted Monday by a U.S. official, ended a years-long search for bin Laden's personal courier, the key break in a worldwide manhunt. The courier, in turn, led U.S. intelligence to a walled compound in northeast Pakistan, where a team of Navy SEALs shot bin Laden to death.

The violent final minutes were the culmination of years of intelligence work. Inside the CIA team hunting bin Laden, it always was clear that bin Laden's vulnerability was his couriers. He was too smart to let al-Qaida foot soldiers, or even his senior commanders, know his hideout. But if he wanted to get his messages out, somebody had to carry them, someone bin Laden trusted with his life.

In a secret CIA prison in Eastern Europe years ago, al-Qaida's No. 3 leader, Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, gave authorities the nicknames of several of bin Laden's couriers, four former U.S. intelligence officials said. Those names were among thousands of leads the CIA was pursuing.

One man became a particular interest for the agency when another detainee, Abu Faraj al-Libi, told interrogators that when he was promoted to succeed Mohammed as al-Qaida's operational leader he received the word through a courier. Only bin Laden would have given al-Libi that promotion, CIA officials believed.

If they could find that courier, they'd find bin Laden.

The revelation that intelligence gleaned from the CIA's so-called black sites helped kill bin Laden was seen as vindication for many intelligence officials who have been repeatedly investigated and criticized for their involvement in a program that involved the harshest interrogation methods in U.S. history.

"We got beat up for it, but those efforts led to this great day," said Marty Martin, a retired CIA officer who for years led the hunt for bin Laden.

Mohammed did not reveal the names while being subjected to the simulated drowning technique known as waterboarding, former officials said. He identified them many months later under standard interrogation, they said, leaving it once again up for debate as to whether the harsh technique was a valuable tool or an unnecessarily violent tactic.

It took years of work for intelligence agencies to identify the courier's real name, which officials are not disclosing. When they did identify him, he was nowhere to be found. The CIA's sources didn't know where he was hiding. Bin Laden was famously insistent that no phones or computers be used near him, so the eavesdroppers at the National Security Agency kept coming up cold.

Then in the middle of last year, the courier had a telephone conversation with someone who was being monitored by U.S. intelligence, according to an American official, who like others interviewed for this story spoke only on condition of anonymity to discuss the sensitive operation. The courier was located somewhere away from bin Laden's hideout when he had the discussion, but it was enough to help intelligence officials locate and watch him.

In August 2010, the courier unknowingly led authorities to a compound in the northeast Pakistani town of Abbottabad, where al-Libi had once lived. The walls surrounding the property were as high as 18 feet and topped with barbed wire. Intelligence officials had known about the house for years, but they always suspected that bin Laden would be surrounded by heavily armed security guards. Nobody patrolled the compound in Abbottabad.

...


Before dawn Monday morning, a pair of helicopters left Jalalabad in eastern Afghanistan. The choppers entered Pakistani airspace using sophisticated technology intended to evade that country's radar systems, a U.S. official said.

Officially, it was a kill-or-capture mission, since the U.S. doesn't kill unarmed people trying to surrender. But it was clear from the beginning that whoever was behind those walls had no intention of surrendering, two U.S. officials said.
The helicopters lowered into the compound, dropping the SEALs behind the walls. No shots were fired, but shortly after the team hit the ground, one of the helicopters came crashing down and rolled onto its side for reasons the government has yet to explain. None of the SEALs was injured, however, and the mission continued uninterrupted.

With the CIA and White House monitoring the situation in real time — presumably by live satellite feed or video carried by the SEALs — the team stormed the compound.

Thanks to sophisticated satellite monitoring, U.S. forces knew they'd likely find bin Laden's family on the second and third floors of one of the buildings on the property, officials said. The SEALs secured the rest of the property first,

...
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