Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 31 Oct 2011

Rajdeep · Post by **Rajdeep** » 17 Nov 2011 21:10

shiv wrote:
RajeshA wrote:In the American media, a certain picture of Pakistan is being pushed, either by design or by similar thinking. In the new issue of "Generation Hope", a Marvel title, there were a few pages on Pakistan, as the Mutant team led by Hope Summers lands in Pakistan in search for somebody. Check page 18 with the joke on goats. The writer is James Asmus. Not even a SDRE! Then there is the thing about danger zone and suicide bombings!

Comic Link

The new generation of Americans are slowly getting the treat.
The link is dead for me.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 17 Nov 2011 21:14

Anujan wrote:Adding to the "Separate electorate" gyan, here is the latest from Pagal Sehgal

Unfortunately for some super-rich Indian businessmen, the states on India’s periphery have become akin to “low caste” ones; indeed, they do not seem to exist for them. Indian policymakers, in government and outside, must recognise that as the economic engine of growth they have a responsibility to the people of the other states that surround India.

The guy and his cohort left greater India and make periodic attacks to justify their leaving and he wants to have a say in what India thinks and does.

Guess where else we have seen this behavior?

sanjaykumar · Post by **sanjaykumar** » 17 Nov 2011 21:43

Self referential, grandiosity, entitlement....where does this come from....their religion?

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 17 Nov 2011 22:07

SSridhar wrote: This is the Islamic virus against which we have no buffer. To borrow from Jaswant Singh, how can 'the problem' be 'the solution' ?

By calling it the solution. That is the feeling I got listening to Sri BK.

How would Pakistan become a solution without changing a single characteristic, I do not understand. What ideological and behavioral change Indian strategists expect is not clear.

India's minimalist stand is - no cross-border terrorism (what about organic terrorism that is inspired by Jihadi tendency in the neighborhood is not taken into consideration).

But we cannot enter the negotiation with our minimalist position as it would never lead to a solution. Can we list out our position on a 1-100 scale. For example:

10 - Stop all Cross-Border Terrorism
20 - No Cross-Border Terrorism and MFN status
30 - No Cross-Border Terrorism, MFN Status, Trade corridor to CAR
50 - No Cross-Border Terrorism, MFN Status, Trade corridor to CAR & Afghanistan
70 - Settlement on JK based on current borders
80 - Pakistan moves out of PoK
90 - Pakistan renounces Islamism
100 - Pakistan joins India as an Indic state

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 17 Nov 2011 22:16

ramana wrote:quote="Anujan"]Adding to the "Separate electorate" gyan, here is the latest from Pagal Sehgal
Unfortunately for some super-rich Indian businessmen, the states on India’s periphery have become akin to “low caste” ones; indeed, they do not seem to exist for them. Indian policymakers, in government and outside, must recognise that as the economic engine of growth they have a responsibility to the people of the other states that surround IndiaThe guy and his cohort left greater India and make periodic attacks to justify their leaving and he wants to have a say in what India thinks and does.Guess where else we have seen this behavior?8)

Jitne Joote Marro ge ootna hi yeh Choomenge . BC, Kya koi Yateemkhana khula hua hai!! Indian periphery dont include Pakistan which is a mental slave of Middle East and physical slave of China and WEST. This particular inbred should remove his last name Sehgal and adopt one from the Sandy Lanes of Arabia.
One sure way to kill Pakistan is the prosperity in Afghanistan and seems Indian Government has made up its mind to accomplish this objective . More the Afghans get rich , more the Begging, Beseeching , Becchariat from Pagalstan to take care of them .

anmol · Post by **anmol** » 17 Nov 2011 22:29

deleted. this is the TSP thread, not BENIS or KSA thread.

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 17 Nov 2011 22:35

How can you spend money that you don't have?
You take a loan.

How can you improve relations with Pakistan when Pakistan hasn't changed?
In effect, you're taking a loan against the future.
Indian policy setters may be calculating that engagement with Pakistan will change Pakistan. They may think that the jihadis think so too - the motive of all the terrorist attacks is to derail any engagement, precisely because they fear/abhor the changes that will occur.

Now BRF may rate this like a junk bond. But the question is to understand "what are they (Indian policy makers) thinking?" and this is the most rational answer I could come up with.

ShauryaT · Post by **ShauryaT** » 17 Nov 2011 22:51

RamaY wrote:
10 - Stop all Cross-Border Terrorism
20 - No Cross-Border Terrorism and MFN status
30 - No Cross-Border Terrorism, MFN Status, Trade corridor to CAR
50 - No Cross-Border Terrorism, MFN Status, Trade corridor to CAR & Afghanistan
70 - Settlement on JK based on current borders

The above + reduction in TSPA force levels and structure, internal reforms for TSPA to be in civilian control, change the Islamist trajectory yet remain Islamic, not allow TSP land mass to be used by USA/PRC or any other, guarantee non-interference in Afghanistan.

The question is what will India bring to the table?

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 17 Nov 2011 22:51

shiv wrote:The link is dead for me.

Please search for "Generation Hope 013 (2012) (Empire-Lizzy).cbr" -torrent!

anishns · Post by **anishns** » 17 Nov 2011 23:23

Philip wrote:Who cares if Pak breaks up and a flood of refugees start looking for new lands?

menon s wrote:Shiv sir, what if refugees start flowing into Amritsar? can we bomb them aerially? what if they settle as refugees and one day start talking about lebensauram as bangladeshi muslims are doing in assam?

Philip and Menon

The only thing that worries me about Pakis ultimately being flushed down pakhanastan is the fact that once they cross the Wagah border in hordes our own people, like the ones giving up their seats during the Mohali WC semi finals this year will welcome them with "pappi-jhappi" all in the interest of long lost bhaichaara....and "subah ka bhoola jab shyam ko ghar aaye...." etc etc.

Then what are we going to do?

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 17 Nov 2011 23:24

a better outcome will be to liberate a new desh within pakistan's borders and set up a "free x-desh" government... the blueprint for this has been tried and tested a few times...

hnair · Post by **hnair** » 17 Nov 2011 23:40

Anujan wrote:Adding to the "Separate electorate" gyan, here is the latest from Pagal Sehgal

Unfortunately for some super-rich Indian businessmen, the states on India’s periphery have become akin to “low caste” ones; indeed, they do not seem to exist for them. Indian policymakers, in government and outside, must recognise that as the economic engine of growth they have a responsibility to the people of the other states that surround India.

Some more funny stuff from the the mildly entertaining clown (in clownspeak that means "loser")

Anyone you met in India was vociferous about civilian supremacy over the military in a democracy. My question was: how, then, was the Indian Army vociferously and publicly objecting to the proposal by Chief Minister Omar Abdullah to curb the Armed Forces Special Powers Act (AFSPA) in Indian-Occupied Kashmir?

They had no answer when I gently informed them that the so-called Taliban leader had claimed that the ISI’s trainers came in ISI uniforms while members of no intelligence agency in the world wore uniforms.

so many questions with no answers from SDREs. Cant SDREs drop all they do and find answers for an uncivilized and backwoods paki turd that rolled into India?

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 17 Nov 2011 23:59

hnair wrote: so many questions with no answers from SDREs. Cant SDREs drop all they do and find answers for an uncivilized and backwoods paki turd that rolled into India?

He will be arrested if he is a peaceful paki. If he is an armed Paki, he will be killed. If he is a RAPE paki, he will be hugged and licked by WKKs.

There is a much much simpler solution Paki problem. But I dont think India has reached that level of internal and external transformation.

SBajwa · Post by **SBajwa** » 18 Nov 2011 00:00

menon s wrote:
Shiv sir, what if refugees start flowing into Amritsar? can we bomb them aerially? what if they settle as refugees and one day start talking about lebensauram as bangladeshi muslims are doing in assam?

It is easier for refugees to come into Gujarat or Rajasthan than in Punjab. The whole Punjab and Jammu Kashmir border is not only heavily mined but there are electrified barbed wire along with patrol by Police, BSF and Army.

All along the Jammu and Punjab border farmers cannot even get close to their agricultural land for farming during night time. (access control is allowed by BSF for certain times).

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 18 Nov 2011 00:05

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dcXiXNUd ... re=related

Will provide quick solution to refugee surge from Paki side . IA suppose to have few hundreds.
( Watch at 4.08)

KLNMurthy · Post by **KLNMurthy** » 18 Nov 2011 00:17

Re this talk of making pak depend on India: bear in mind that a virulent parasite is also "dependent" on its host. A smart parasite will not kill its host but coninue indefinitely to sap the host's vitality, effectively enslaving it, while itself only growing larger and unproductively consuming resources.

US / China facilitated nukes and military are the teeth of the paki parasite. We should focus like a laser on removing those. Any decision on TSP has to be justified on the basis of how it helps to denuke TSP.

RCase · Post by **RCase** » 18 Nov 2011 00:26

From Pagal Sehgal's article;

They had no answer when I gently informed them that the so-called Taliban leader had claimed that the ISI’s trainers came in ISI uniforms while members of no intelligence agency in the world wore uniforms. Maybe Pierre Cardin designs ISI uniforms, and the next thing you know we may have “designer” explosives!

Silly us ... Of course the ISI doesn't wear uniforms. Even the Pakistan army doesn't wear uniforms when fighting. This is a tradition since 1947! They love to dress up in costumes. In 1947, they were dressed up as tribals. In 65, they came dressed as civilians. In Kargil, they had designer shalwars and turbans. In Mumbai, they came handsomely dressed as 'modern angry hindu' teenagers, complete with saffron wrist bands, backpacks and sneakers.Too bad in 71, they were wearing army uniforms as costume and the Indian army got confused and had to apply POW rules to 90,000 of them.

Does Gen. Pasha still head ISI? I thought former alumni of ISI were Gen. Kiyani, Gen. Musharaf, Gen.Taj, Gen. Gul etc. I keep getting confused when all of these guys keep posing in khaki clothes. I tend to mistake it for military uniforms.

RCase · Post by **RCase** » 18 Nov 2011 00:54

A carrier of a highly contagious disease would be quarantined and sequestered, lest it infect normal people. People in their personal lives would display such intelligence. Shouldn't the Pakistani virus also be so treated?

What is wrong with countries? Why is there this overwhelming urge to engage it and hope things will get better before the infection is treated completely and rendered safe for the community of nations? Why should India help in removing their self imposed economic quarantine?

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 18 Nov 2011 01:53

This Ijaz, Haqqani(good), Zardari and Kiyani tango with US after Abortabad looks very fishy. Something did happen and was communicated. Only thing is now to save TSPA H&D they are all playing very correct.
So what really happened?

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 18 Nov 2011 02:01

Pakis being pakis,

A serving Army/ISI general was snatched away from Abortabad

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 18 Nov 2011 03:01

ramana wrote:This Ijaz, Haqqani(good), Zardari and Kiyani tango with US after Abortabad looks very fishy. Something did happen and was communicated. Only thing is now to save TSPA H&D they are all playing very correct.
So what really happened?

Suppose , Zwahiri was taken alive for Oct surprise , !!!

parsuram · Post by **parsuram** » 18 Nov 2011 03:44

Incase some have forgotten, this same pagal sehgal wrote a column on behalf of the equally pagal paki army, giving a two year ultimatum to India. According to the ultimatum, India would have to have settled Kashmir to the paki's satisfaction, or India would be subject to a nuke attack. That was back I '03 or '04, frm what I remember. Obviously, pagal. Has changed his tune now. He is dow to beligerant begging from threatening nukes. Give him time. He will get down to just plain begging, his family vocation.

JE Menon · Post by **JE Menon** » 18 Nov 2011 03:58

>>JEMenon Ji: I do not think we need concern ourselves about any toxic corpse of the paki.

Fully agree...

BTW, you got the wrong Menon there boss

partha · Post by **partha** » 18 Nov 2011 06:08

Why did this Ijaz guy went public about the "secret" memo? He is supposed to be a friend of the good Haqqani (evident from the fact that he was chosen to hand over the secret memo).

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 18 Nov 2011 06:53

For Former 1971 POW Pagal Sah-Gal

$$$ Hamara owrr Khwab Tumharre
Wah Wah Puttar Paki Becchare
47 Kaa Maal-E Ghanimat
Khatam Ho gya, Ayye Hakkikat
Izzat Loote kaffir Yaar
Woh bhi dekho Sarre bazar
Marran joote , Thaappar Karrar
Lagga hoon judd sabb Barbaad
Aaa gya tujhko India Yaad!!!
Moonh Nahi Changa ,thaa Gull Changi kar
Karr na Sada Wakat Kharab.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 18 Nov 2011 07:01

A_Gupta wrote:How can you spend money that you don't have?
You take a loan.

How can you improve relations with Pakistan when Pakistan hasn't changed?
In effect, you're taking a loan against the future.
Indian policy setters may be calculating that engagement with Pakistan will change Pakistan. They may think that the jihadis think so too - the motive of all the terrorist attacks is to derail any engagement, precisely because they fear/abhor the changes that will occur.

Now BRF may rate this like a junk bond. But the question is to understand "what are they (Indian policy makers) thinking?" and this is the most rational answer I could come up with.

This is the most likely explanation. But it is necessary for us to ask if any wisdom is there. It is necessary for us to ask if we need to show any friendliness towards Pakistan.

Now let me stop being politically correct. You see I have seen Pakistan graduate from starting wars (1965) to genocide 1971, to terrorism in the last decade. Actually I have absolutely no objection to seeing every Pakistani dead. Clean. Wipe Pakistan clean of all Pakistanis. What is wrong with that?

We are all taught that it is immoral to kill. We are taught that the karmic consequences of our actions will come back and harm us later. But hey, what consequences have invaders like Ghazni and the people they inspired faced? What consequences did Jinnah's Muslim league face for killing Sikhs and Hindus on direct action day? What consequences did the Pakistani army's genocidal actions in Bangladesh make them face? What consequences is Pakistan facing for terrorism against India. Looks like they were all reborn as Hindus in India. They are paying for their sins!

Everyone is allowed to have a viewpoint. The Indian government and Bharat Karnad think that Pakistan should be engaged. I think all Pakistanis should be killed. People may ask, how can you kill 180 million people. Ok i admit that will be difficult. How about killing 10 million of them for punishment? That should be easier. The Pakistani army killed 3 million in 1971. Heck historical records show that heroes like Mahmud Ghazni killed hundreds of thousands, if not millions. It was fine then. What makes it bad now? Sometimes it is necessary to kill people. The time to kill Pakistanis is when we are stronger. That is the law of nature.

Why are we engaging poisonous Pakistan? We should be punishing them. This is the time to draw them out and slaughter them. Give them a taste of their favorite medicine - hatred. And laugh as we do it.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 18 Nov 2011 07:28

Build trust, put Kashmir on back burner: Imran
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cJvomNq_0vs

Hari Seldon · Post by **Hari Seldon** » 18 Nov 2011 07:29

Another delicious piskological experiment in the making, seems like ... to trick some clueless jingos into rapture, perhaps... and laugh all the way to the moral bank. Oh, I'm all for watching this one unfold, like all the previous ones...

Prasad · Post by **Prasad** » 18 Nov 2011 07:30

Praveen Swami has an article in todays Hindu about this recent spate of "talks". He says, to paraphrase, we know they havent, wont do anything regarding the terrorist boy-toys of the PA. Right now they're being squeezed and their situation is in the $hitter. So they are appearing to be for talks. So what is teh harm in doing the "talks" for the sake of it, while knowing fully well that its going to be shortlived and of no real consequence but to give airheads on tv something to shrill about. I sort of agree too.

India, Pakistan, and God's geostrategic will

Airavat · Post by **Airavat** » 18 Nov 2011 07:42

shiv wrote:what consequences have invaders like Ghazni and the people they inspired faced?

OT, but the rulers and people of Ghazni became victims of Muslim-on-Muslim violence and rapine: viewtopic

Airavat · Post by **Airavat** » 18 Nov 2011 07:54

1000 p0rn sites blocked

Comments -

Reading the comments here makes one wonder that if people were so fed up of the p0rn sites, what made Mr. Google and its statistics to believe that Pakistan is the top most country to visit p0rnographic stuff ?

As if there isn’t already enough sexual frustration in our society. I think that – at least for young bachelors – p0rn provided a relatively safe outlet.

As a girl I am completely against this decision. No. I don’t watch p0rn. But our society is extremely frustrated and p0rn is an outlet for them. Otherwise, I think sexual harassment and crimes will rise manyfold. Repressing a society that is already frustrated. Bad move.

those stupids who think its a wrong move, or p0rn is a safe way out for frustations, come on guys be wise and mature. What about those times when there was no print or electronic media back in 1700-1800′s? People of those times were also humans having frustations and emotions like us. And those were the times when Muslims were morally and ethically superior and stronger than any other nation . Not like us, socially emotionally morally dead people. If u r frustated than consume ur energies in some positive things instead of useless p0rn.

how are we supposed to let off steam? this will increase the birth rate drastically and also rapes of men and women. the govt shud overturn this immediately

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 18 Nov 2011 08:10

Exclusive: Secret Pakistani-U.S. memo offering overthrow of military leadership revealed

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 18 Nov 2011 08:14

A_Gupta wrote: Indian policy setters may be calculating that engagement with Pakistan will change Pakistan. They may think that the jihadis think so too - the motive of all the terrorist attacks is to derail any engagement, precisely because they fear/abhor the changes that will occur.

Now BRF may rate this like a junk bond. But the question is to understand "what are they (Indian policy makers) thinking?" and this is the most rational answer I could come up with.

With all due respect GuptaJi, this is a cart load of horse manure. First of all, may I ask who are these Jihadis? Are they from Mars? Are the Jihadis different for the TSP establishment, I mean TSPA/ISI? Which entity is this peace-nick TSP that the jihadis from Mars or Uranus are trying to undermine? Give me a frikkin break.

The most rational answer is that there are 2 Indias. One that believes TSP must be shunned if not fought outright, and the other that consist of a bunch of self-loathing cowards who have no qualms with TSP == India, and the more loathsome self-effacing position that if TSP has jihadis, India has "Hindu terrorists" (Recall 26/11 == Samjotha). So by going into a self flagellating mode, they think the enemy will spare them and we all live happily every after. There is no other rational explanation. And guess what? The enemy is not about to reciprocate, it wants to go for the kill, just witness the brazen demands of TSP even when they are in such dire straits.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 18 Nov 2011 08:16

Hari Seldon wrote:Another delicious piskological experiment in the making, seems like ... to trick some clueless jingos into rapture, perhaps... and laugh all the way to the moral bank. Oh, I'm all for watching this one unfold, like all the previous ones...

You know "laughing all the way to the moral bank" is a nice expression. I need to remember that. But the fact is that we do not have our priorities right. We only have excuses.

All I am doing is re stating the problem and suggesting one solution as an alternate to what is being suggested. Most people will call it extreme and immoral, but this is how we tie ourselves into moral contradictions. We object to Pakistan's killing which is done in the name of Islam, then we hobble ourselves with a double disability
1. We cannot refer to Islam as a problem because of sarva dharma whatever
2. We cannot respond to murderers by killing.

If we look at our nation seriously, do we have any alternate answers? We don't want to show up Pakistan's use of Islam against Hindus. We don't want to kill. But we want to say "Jaago". What for?

Rudradev · Post by **Rudradev** » 18 Nov 2011 08:39

abhishek_sharma wrote:Exclusive: Secret Pakistani-U.S. memo offering overthrow of military leadership revealed

Countdown begins! 10 percenti... 9 percenti... 8 percenti...

arun · Post by **arun** » 18 Nov 2011 08:51

All those with the surname of “Butt” are going to be facing difficulties with receiving and sending SMS’s. No more SMS messages starting with “Dear Mr/Mrs/Ms. Butt” or signing off SMS messages with “Mr/Mrs/Ms. Butt”

:

Butt out! Pakistan telecom watchdog drafts rude text message ban

Satya_anveshi · Post by **Satya_anveshi** » 18 Nov 2011 09:01

A_Gupta wrote:How can you spend money that you don't have?
You take a loan.

How can you improve relations with Pakistan when Pakistan hasn't changed?
In effect, you're taking a loan against the future.
Indian policy setters may be calculating that engagement with Pakistan will change Pakistan. They may think that the jihadis think so too - the motive of all the terrorist attacks is to derail any engagement, precisely because they fear/abhor the changes that will occur.

Now BRF may rate this like a junk bond. But the question is to understand "what are they (Indian policy makers) thinking?" and this is the most rational answer I could come up with.

Guptaji,

Why not the overtures be seen as hedging against even more penetration by Cheen? I know Puki Cheeni relations are already tarrel and deepel but it still does not resemble NOKO. With the assets Cheen has and its urge to use it to extend its interest far and wide, and given that paki rate is cheap owing to strategic disengagement by US, it is but expected the Cheen will go in with a huge shopping list. Then what?....Taiwan a goner, Tibet will be an overreach and Pak will be Noko++.

What is our counter to preventing this?

As it is some folks have issues with everything muslim:
Sunni – oh rabid fundamentalist and everyone is Talibunny until proven otherwise (if even given half a chance)
Shia – oh sufis – more dangerous than jihadis..steer clear of these types
Ahmediyas – oh..these were the foremost to call for separation from India;

How do we even find out that there are elements whom we can do business without some kind of engagement? What kind of engagement generates value to these folks so we can encourage /develop and hedge further cheeni penetration?

Knowing that military solution is check mated in the short/medium term besides being rather expensive and potentially counterproductive, we see hardly any discussion of engaging pukis that furthers our interests in other ways.

PS: even as I write this, I just kept a good old Indian made Nova bottle ready in anticipation of member response

Rishi · Post by **Rishi** » 18 Nov 2011 09:06

BBM transcript of Hussain Haqqani and Mansoor Ijaz chats re:Memogate:
http://t.co/qdTj73yu

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 18 Nov 2011 09:12

Prasad wrote:So what is the harm in doing the "talks" for the sake of it, while knowing fully well that its going to be shortlived and of no real consequence but to give airheads on tv something to shrill about. I sort of agree too.

But, GoI went far beyond all that, from Havana, Yekaterinburg, SeS, Thimphu and now Addu. If the intention was for having talks merely for 'namesake', where was the need for implicating ourselves in Balochaistan, liberalizing visas, allowing TSP banks to open here, offering PTA, withdrawing objection to EU's GSP+ concession to Pakistan etc ? What has TSP done to merit such friendliness ? If words are to remain as mere words, we should not see any actions, aren't we ? Trade under terrorism is not an option for us.

Satya_anveshi · Post by **Satya_anveshi** » 18 Nov 2011 09:15

shiv wrote:But it is necessary for us to ask if any wisdom is there.

Is this really necessary to ask? Given that there are so many parties with competing stakes should we really be the one shunning to derive any value out of those or encouraging agents of change?

Even if we start from Zero (assuming there is no one currently exist in Pak who is willing to do business with India), should we still stop trying? What does that achieve us knowing that there are people with huge bank balance ready to take advantage making situation go worse to super worse? What does that do to SAARC as it is pak is shifting to SCO?