Malaysian Airlines Flight MH-370 goes missing

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Theo_Fidel

Re: Malaysian Airlines Flight MH-370 goes missing

Post by Theo_Fidel »

Singha wrote:Latest nugget..the allright goodnight last radio contact was made on edge of Malay atc zone well after someone went down into avioncs bay and disabled acars. Maybe there is no alarm shown in cockpit for this.
There was a CNBC report that this is not entirely accurate.

What was turned off was the 'data mode', which can be done from the aircraft console. Though even this apparently is not an easy task.

But the ACARS system was not powered down at the master control which is why these regular pings are even available to us.
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Re: Malaysian Airlines Flight MH-370 goes missing

Post by UlanBatori »

Harbans: Let's see. If my hypothesis is right, in another 24 to 36 hours, some website/Expert/Blog/WSJ will carry the same question on contrails. I don't see anyone asking so far. :mrgreen:

The crowdsource site you mentioned, was looking at the original search region in the South China Sea, IIRC. That was a search for airplane parts. Here I think the search would be easily automated by anyone possessing the required images, from both visible and IR image data. "Look for line pattern" is easily implemented, I think. It should be easily tested on any part of the current sky where there are so many contrails.

Anantha: Sure, they could have done AOA and dived, and in many places like deep jungle on a remote island, there won't be any sign and no humans to go stumble on it. WW2 airplane wreckage is still being found accidentally by ppl on the ground, not by ppl looking at aerial images.

BUT.... question is why? What fun is it if no one even knows you have gone to the Promised Nagging By The 72?
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Re: Malaysian Airlines Flight MH-370 goes missing

Post by A_Gupta »

UlanBatori wrote:Since the standard for CTs* has clearly gone down here :((
...

Now the So IO region is one ordinarily empty of aircraft contrails. Not many flights daily to Antarctica from Karachi. So any sight of these in the given time frame is a giveaway. This aircraft was flying after the sun came up (if the CTs are correct), so there was daylight during that time. Why hasn't someone found these? ...
Methinks satellites may be snapping away hi-res pics of the South Indian Ocean, but satellite operators may not be downloading them, why spend bandwidth, power, storage on the satellite for pix no one normally will look at?
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Re: Malaysian Airlines Flight MH-370 goes missing

Post by UlanBatori »

Harbans: See this site for what I mean

Very very clearly visible on satellite images, even against ground.
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Re: Malaysian Airlines Flight MH-370 goes missing

Post by Vayutuvan »

shiv wrote:
Nijalingappa wrote: Only possible if it is wireless enabled.
Also 3G enabled.
No my answer is to singha's post that US does not have fighters stationed at DG due to range to af. My point is if they have midair refuel then they could station some fighters there. Also a couple of bombers might have been modified to carry airtoair missiles to intercept rogue civvies. A hombre would be more than enough match to a commercial plane.
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Re: Malaysian Airlines Flight MH-370 goes missing

Post by Nandu »

The latest search "corridors" are based on distance estimation by the Inmarsat "pings". They either go north towards Kazakhstan or south towards the middle of the Indian ocean.

In either case, am I right that the paths are entirely outside Indian airspace and all the speculation about how Indian radars "failed" have been irresponsible?
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Re: Malaysian Airlines Flight MH-370 goes missing

Post by harbans »

Contrails looks to be a good method of locating flights over remote ocean regions. Yet what about cellphones? This old article says NSA can track and has tracked cellphones that have been switched off.

http://www.slate.com/blogs/future_tense ... d_off.html
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Re: Malaysian Airlines Flight MH-370 goes missing

Post by anmol »

Questions remain as India continues search
thehindu.com | Mar 16th 2014

On a day when the hijack theory on the mysterious disappearance of Beijing-bound Malaysian flight MH370 with 239 passengers on board gained considerable traction, Indian forces intensified the search of the seas abutting the east coast and the Andaman and Nicobar archipelago for wreckage of the jet, but without any result.

In the wake of a fresh request from Malaysia, India on Saturday extended its search using ships and recce aircraft to a wide area over central and east Bay of Bengal. “The Navy has so far coordinated search over an area spanning more than 2,50,000 sq km in the Andaman Sea and the Bay of Bengal and search operations are expected to continue,” said a Navy spokesperson.

The third day of Indian search saw the Navy press into service two of its newly-acquired Boeing P8-I long-range maritime patrol aircraft and an Air Force C-130 J Super Hercules tactical airlifter to scour the seas. Dornier DO-228 recce aircraft operated by the Navy and the Coast Guard also flew sorties through the day.

Indian naval ships Kesari and Saryu remained alongside a multinational search flotilla in the Andaman Sea. Coast Guard vessels Kanaklata Barua and Bhikaji Cama searched the Andaman Sea while CGS Sagar combed the Strait of Malacca. More ships and aircraft were on standby for augmenting the operation, said the spokesperson.

The Indian Navy maintained continuous liaison with the Operations Centres of the Royal Malaysian Navy and the Royal Malaysian Air Force so as to coordinate the ongoing search effort involving over 14 countries, 45 ships and 60 aircraft, he said.
Erratic inputs

The former Navy Chief, Admiral (retd.) Arun Prakash, criticised the effort as ‘sheer waste’ of resources. “Are the Malaysians covering up something or telling lies?” he asked, referring to the vastly varying and contradicting accounts of the missing flight given by the Malaysian government over the seven days of its loss. “First they said its last contact point was somewhere over the South China Sea. Then they said it took a south-westerly course, only to change it later to westerly course and now, a north-westerly course towards Central Asia. The inputs have been glaringly erratic. No search is worth anything if it is conducted on the basis of grossly-erring information. We should’ve got the info corroborated before embarking on the search,” he told The Hindu.

“While low-flying is generally done to evade detection by radars, it makes no sense in this case as fall in altitude is at the cost of higher rate of fuel consumption.” This would obviously have a bearing on the endurance of the aircraft, Mr. Prakash, an ace pilot, pointed out denouncing theories of its course to Central Asia. “They needn’t have come all the way down to the Indian Ocean to commit suicide.”

Lieutenant-General (retd.) N.C. Marwah, former commander-in-chief of the Andaman and Nicobar Command which is controlling the Indian forces taking part in the search operation, told The Hindu that the archipelago, located strategically astride key maritime chokepoints, badly needed more air defence radars.

Given the possibility of the missing plane giving radars in the region the slip, he said the island group at the moment only had three air defence radars operated by the Navy and the Air Force at Port Blair, Car Nicobar and Campbell Bay, each with a range of up to 150 km. Even these would not be functional round-the-clock owing to maintenance requirements.
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Re: Malaysian Airlines Flight MH-370 goes missing

Post by SwamyG »

harbans wrote:SwamyG, you don't need a 777 full of passengers to drag out of somewhere and do that. There are a 100 ways to do it very simply.

UB: Even if they have a hi resolution camera..how do you search and analyze an area several million square kms of ocean? What are the resources and time needed?
True. But shrewd people use the opportunities no? Let us say, for the moment, the disappearance is because of mechanical failure, hijack, pilot error, weather related or what ever different reasons they might be. Once the window of opportunity presented itself, the powers had to arm twist the right authorities from 'leaking out the truth'; and get their agenda completed. Once the agenda is complete, slowly the truth starts coming out.
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Re: Malaysian Airlines Flight MH-370 goes missing

Post by UlanBatori »

Hmm! Former Admiral is outspoken, hain?
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Re: Malaysian Airlines Flight MH-370 goes missing

Post by A_Gupta »

UlanBatori wrote:Harbans: See this site for what I mean

Very very clearly visible on satellite images, even against ground.
We can hope that some satellite operator has good pix of the South Indian Ocean for the morning of March 8.
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Re: Malaysian Airlines Flight MH-370 goes missing

Post by Shreeman »

UlanBatori wrote:
UB: Even if they have a hi resolution camera..how do you search and analyze an area several million square kms of ocean? What are the resources and time needed?
If it is ISS ...
NASA is supposedly llooking at the pictures. They claimed involvement in the search yesterday. Contrails may not exist for one of the several reasons you cited. Its not as easy as looking for a line or nearly all satellite images would have contrails in them!
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Re: Malaysian Airlines Flight MH-370 goes missing

Post by Bade »

UB, NASA & NOAA are very likely scanning all imagery, not to mention the other unmentionable agency in the suburbs of DC. The question is what is India doing with their imagery, the "largest constellation in the galaxy" as someone used to claim. Why are they so silent too. At least white mundu cannot be blamed for lack of funding onlee in this case.
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Re: Malaysian Airlines Flight MH-370 goes missing

Post by Nandu »

Final Words From Jet Came After Systems Shutdown
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/stor ... =290524970

Since the evidence is also that the ACARS system and the transponders were shut down separately, this points to the pilot(s) doing this intentionally.
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Re: Malaysian Airlines Flight MH-370 goes missing

Post by eklavya »

This is interesting ...

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... omite.html
An image has emerged of the pilot of the missing Malaysia Airlines jet wearing a T-shirt with a 'Democracy is Dead' slogan as it has been revealed he could have hijacked the plane in an anti-government protest.

Captain Zaharie Ahmad Shah, a father-of-three, was said to be a 'fanatical' supporter of the country's opposition leader Anwar Ibrahim - jailed for homosexuality just hours before the jet disappeared.

It has also been revealed that the pilot's wife and three children moved out of the family home the day before the plane went missing.
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Re: Malaysian Airlines Flight MH-370 goes missing

Post by Muppalla »

Bade wrote:UB, NASA & NOAA are very likely scanning all imagery, not to mention the other unmentionable agency in the suburbs of DC. The question is what is India doing with their imagery, the "largest constellation in the galaxy" as someone used to claim. Why are they so silent too. At least white mundu cannot be blamed for lack of funding onlee in this case.
What if they have done their job and are having a charminar break?
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Re: Malaysian Airlines Flight MH-370 goes missing

Post by Bade »

Only if they did not waste tax payer money on SAR, if they knew it was not necessary, no ?
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Re: Malaysian Airlines Flight MH-370 goes missing

Post by member_28502 »

It is normal in EDI to have
A data Source
A data sink.

The data source pushes the message/Data
A protocol to say Hi from the source
And a Ack from the data sink by saying Hi as well
If no Hi from data sink then its a NACK (no acknowledgement) to the source (inferred by time out packets lost, this what your ping utility does on IP and the time taken for the round trip)

In this case the ACARS was sending source hi packets to Satellites but no data follows ( disabled intentional or otherwise)

So the ACARS data as of now we have is ( or revealed) is like missed calls
the sender dials number connects but doesnt speak ( it times out or Null recorded for that time of hand shake between source and sink)
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Re: Malaysian Airlines Flight MH-370 goes missing

Post by Bade »

UB, Look at this MODIS imagery for the region of BoB. http://modis.gsfc.nasa.gov/gallery/imag ... 014_md.jpg
The forest fires and the resultant smoke from it, would make it difficult to distinguish the contrails from visible imagery.

ref: http://modis.gsfc.nasa.gov/gallery/indi ... 2014-03-12
Last edited by Bade on 17 Mar 2014 02:57, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Malaysian Airlines Flight MH-370 goes missing

Post by Shreeman »

http://pakobserver.net/detailnews.asp?id=236405

I suppose it will be found soon, then?
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Re: Malaysian Airlines Flight MH-370 goes missing

Post by Bade »

Andaman sea imagery for a relatively clear day, and even here one sees no contrails. There is intense specular reflection across the image from the sea surface. Besides all these 14 orbit per din imagery are coarse resolution ~ 1 km. But contrails can be seen even in these at times depending on ambient conditions.
http://oceancolor.gsfc.nasa.gov/FEATURE ... a.half.jpg
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Re: Malaysian Airlines Flight MH-370 goes missing

Post by ramana »

eklavya, If the pilot took over the flight in protest of his idol being sentenced it reduces the angst about India.
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Re: Malaysian Airlines Flight MH-370 goes missing

Post by Rony »

Last edited by Gerard on 17 Mar 2014 04:20, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Removed inlining
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Re: Malaysian Airlines Flight MH-370 goes missing

Post by Rony »

Is missing Malaysian jet the world’s first Cyber Hijack?
A chilling theory suggests the missing Malaysian Airlines plane could have been hijacked using a mobile phone or USB stick.

An anti-terror expert believes the speed, altitude and direction of the aircraft could have been changed, simply by sending radio signals from a small remote device.

A framework of 'codes' created by cyber terrorists would also be able to get into the plane's in-flight entertainment system and override the security software.

It is also believed, once the systems have been successfully hacked, the plane could be landed by remote control.
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Re: Malaysian Airlines Flight MH-370 goes missing

Post by Rony »

Flight MH-370 – an Aviator’s Perspective
Combat Flying knows no boundaries or Air Traffic Routes as Commercial Flying does. Fighter Pilots, hence, are responsible for their respective Air Defence Zones in general during peace time, International Borders being their bench mark.

Commercial flying, however, has set patterns and pre-defined flying routes known as ATS (Air Traffic Services) routes. Every day commercial jets get airborne, fly at different places around the world, in different continents. They know the environment which prevails while they are airborne. Commercial jets have an onboard transponder on all aircraft and when they taxi out, an Air Traffic Control clearance is given which specifies the Runway for departure, SID (Standard Instrument Departure), initial Airway to clear the Control Zone, Flight Level (Altitude to fly at) and Squawk Code (transponder code for SSR (Secondary Surveillance RADAR) which has to be set on the transponder panel in the cockpit. As they are lining up, they have to put the transponder on TARA (Traffic Alert/Resolution Advisory). As soon as a commercial jet takes off, and is handed over from ATC to Area RADAR, it paints (tracks) the aircraft (because of transponder) on their RADAR screens and announce ‘RADAR contact’. The aircraft is continuously tracked thereon till it lands. When the flight transitions from one FIR (Flight Information Region) to another, again the Controller announces ‘RADAR Contact’. If due to any reason, the transponder stops working or in other words, the blip disappears from the RADAR screens of the ground station, it is a situation of an alarm. Pilots are immediately informed and other measures as per SOPs (Standard Operating Procedures) are taken by the controllers.

When the transponder is turned off or goes unserviceable, the controllers become more alert. They try to re-establish RADAR contact. If not possible, they create an alert. The Air Defence RADARs and military authorities are immediately contacted. The Air Defence RADARs are passive RADARs. They continuously monitor their airspace through low, medium or high level RADARs. Any unidentified aircraft entering their airspace is challenged. If no response is given/obtained, then Air Defence Alert (ADA) Fighter Jets are scrambled to identify the object and/or take tactical action. If the aircraft is entering any danger, prohibited or restricted airspace, then countries have the option of shooting it down.


In case of Malaysian Air MH-370 Boeing 777-200, once the transponder was shut down, it flew for hours as has been determined beyond doubt. Modern commercial aircraft have ACARS (Aircraft Communication, Addressing and Reporting System) for digital communications primarily for maintenance or traffic tracking. By this system, certain information is sent by the aircraft engines, doors or even parking brakes through VHF, HF and now satellite systems. Again, digital data was received through aircraft systems, after it had disappeared from the civil RADAR screens, meaning thereby that the aircraft was flying.

I do not buy the point that if the aircraft was flying, it was not tracked by any MILITARY RADAR. Not possible even in a million years.

Asserting that the plane might be in Pakistan with 25 countries on the hunt in 11 different nations, should be a reason enough to admit Rupert Murdoch to the nearest metal asylum.


Aircraft like Boeing 777s have a big RCS (RADAR cross section). Furthermore, it is absurd to even think that it may have crossed the FIRs in countries like Burma, Bangladesh, India, Pakistan, Kyrgyzstan, China, Nepal, Tajikistan and Afghanistan, and nobody was aware of that aircraft.
The other possibility is that it could have flown Southwards to the wide expanse of Indian Ocean. However, to head in that direction, it certainly would have passed through the Air Defence RADARs of Malaysia, Singapore, Indonesia and Australia. Again none challenged an unidentified aircraft nor intercepted it.
Strange and unbelievable.

Whether it was hijacked, flown deliberately by the pilots on these perceived routes or pilots and passengers were incapacitated (by slow/rapid decompression) and aircraft flew on autopilot on the fed-in route on FMC (Flight Management Computer), is not an issue of primary concern. To me more important is to determine and find an answer, why it was not detected by Air Defence RADARs of so many countries in the region. It was not a dual-seater Cessna with extremely small RCS. For the love of thy Lord, it was a Boeing 777-200, a huge aircraft.

To me the answers are with Malaysian authorities and for whatever reasons, resting any conspiracy theory, the truth is not being told and the masses are played off their negligible knowledge of aviation. “Why they are hiding it?” is the strongest question and hence reiterates the strongest of the reasons to hide the facts. The other possibility is that it disappeared into thin air due to some super natural phenomenon. I leave it to you to guess.

My concern primarily is the well-being of the passengers onboard MH 370 and the agony of their families and friends. Having said that, I must address the apprehensions and skepticism it has given birth to in the minds of many of my friends, as far as Air Travel is concerned (reminds me, Jemima Khan is one of them too). Well, let’s compare the statistics via different modes of travel here shall we. Fatalities attributed to the air-crashes in 2013 were 265. Also, for every 100 commercial flight fatalities, there are 46,000 deaths by road accidents. The same ascribed to the bi-cycle/pedestrian accidents in Europe alone are 4000 in a said year. Please rest your premonitions and believe in the wings. Happy landings. Godspeed!
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Re: Malaysian Airlines Flight MH-370 goes missing

Post by Prem »

Rony wrote:Flight MH-370 – an Aviator’s Perspective
I do not buy the point that if the aircraft was flying, it was not tracked by any MILITARY RADAR. Not possible even in a million years.Asserting that the plane might be in Pakistan with 25 countries on the hunt in 11 different nations, should be a reason enough to admit Rupert Murdoch to the nearest metal asylum.Aircraft like Boeing 777s have a big RCS (RADAR cross section). Furthermore, it is absurd to even think that it may have crossed the FIRs in countries like Burma, Bangladesh, India, Pakistan, Kyrgyzstan, China, Nepal, Tajikistan and Afghanistan, and nobody was aware of that aircraft.The other possibility is that it could have flown Southwards to the wide expanse of Indian Ocean. However, to head in that direction, it certainly would have passed through the Air Defence RADARs of Malaysia, Singapore, Indonesia and Australia. Again none challenged an unidentified aircraft nor intercepted it. Strange and unbelievable.


Would not Radar Jamming, Deceiving Militray equipment from Khan Market Dubai make this thing possible to some extent?
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Re: Malaysian Airlines Flight MH-370 goes missing

Post by krithivas »

With due respect to the families of the missing MH370 passengers, the following is my hypothesis, "Kandhahar2.0 in Kuala Lumpur". The plane has not left Malaysia and top secret hostage release negotiations are actively happening. Hence different arcs of search and different target locations are generated like random numbers. Being Islamic H&D is important and the tag line of democracy is important for the Islamic regime that stage manages for outside consumption (like Egypt). It is possible that the pilots are asking for Shariah type Democracy. Foreign investments will flee Malaysia if this is remotely closer to truth. Hence extraordinary secrecy. As far as the pings etc. it is possible that the engines are going for a giant walk on a military transport plane to generate further confusion. Something to consider?

Again, sincere apologies to the passengers and their loved ones of MH370.
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Re: Malaysian Airlines Flight MH-370 goes missing

Post by Satya_anveshi »

This turned out to be the counterpart of SARS / SwineFlu like event as far as bringing in *forced* coordination between diff nations. That kind of thing is usually driven by US as part of their almost yearly drills to spread the sheet around the world.

Initially on water and then they could rope in countries as far as Central Asian Republic. Everyone is trying to jump and confirming with US whether they jumped high enough to their satisfaction.

In my mind, that explains the motive and perpetrator but I don't rule out another perspective overlaying in all this - that is US getting pleasure in playing with chinese lives and china not being able to do anything about it.
Last edited by Satya_anveshi on 17 Mar 2014 04:58, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Malaysian Airlines Flight MH-370 goes missing

Post by ramana »

Do we know for certain MH-370 ever took off? yes we have RR engine data. But can it be faked? Other than RR data all we have is Malaysian 'radar' data.

What if this is all April fool in March?
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Re: Malaysian Airlines Flight MH-370 goes missing

Post by komal »

krithivas wrote:With due respect to the families of the missing MH370 passengers, the following is my hypothesis, "Kandhahar2.0 in Kuala Lumpur". The plane has not left Malaysia and top secret hostage release negotiations are actively happening. Hence different arcs of search and different target locations are generated like random numbers. Being Islamic H&D is important and the tag line of democracy is important for the Islamic regime that stage manages for outside consumption (like Egypt). It is possible that the pilots are asking for Shariah type Democracy. Foreign investments will flee Malaysia if this is remotely closer to truth. Hence extraordinary secrecy. As far as the pings etc. it is possible that the engines are going for a giant walk on a military transport plane to generate further confusion. Something to consider?

Again, sincere apologies to the passengers and their loved ones of MH370.
It would be in the interest of the hijackers to make public the situation to force pressure from passenger families onto the Malaysian Government to negotiate.
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Re: Malaysian Airlines Flight MH-370 goes missing

Post by vasu raya »

http://www.deccanchronicle.com/140316/w ... ossibility
Speaking to Deccan Chronicle newspaper, Dr. B.S. Murty, Professor at the Department of Metallurgical and Materials Engineering at IIT Madras says that while it was technically possible to make little objects invisible, it is highly unlikely that a huge airplane could be completely made invisible using nano or any other technology available at present.

“If hiding the plane from being detected by satellites and other communication devices is the objective, then it could be simply achieved by constructing an underground hangar and setting up jamming devices to prevent transmission of signals,” he says.
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Re: Malaysian Airlines Flight MH-370 goes missing

Post by member_28440 »

MH370 Mystery – Suspicious Cargo & Death of 2 Ex-Navy Seals aboard MV Maersk Alabama
Upon GRU “assests” confirming that this “highly suspicious” cargo was aboard Malaysia Airlines Flight 370 on 8 March, this report notes, Moscow notified China’s Ministry of State Security (MSS) of their concerns and received “assurances” that “all measures” would be taken as to ascertain what was being kept so hidden when this aircraft entered into their airspace.

However, this report says, and as yet for still unknown reasons, the MSS was preparing to divert Flight 370 from its scheduled destination of Beijing to Haikou Meilan International Airport (HAK) located in Hainan Province (aka Hainan Island).

Prior to entering the People Liberation Army (PLA) protected zones of the South China Sea known as the Spratly Islands, this report continues, Flight 370 “significantly deviated” from its flight course and was tracked by VKO satellites and radar flying into the Indian Ocean region and completing its nearly 3,447 kilometer (2,142 miles) flight to Diego Garcia.

Critical to note about Flight 370’s flight deviation, GRU experts in this report say, was that it occurred during the same time period that all of the Spratly Island mobile phone communications operated by China Mobile were being jammed.
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Re: Malaysian Airlines Flight MH-370 goes missing

Post by svinayak »

anmol wrote:
The former Navy Chief, Admiral (retd.) Arun Prakash, criticised the effort as ‘sheer waste’ of resources. “Are the Malaysians covering up something or telling lies?” he asked, referring to the vastly varying and contradicting accounts of the missing flight given by the Malaysian government over the seven days of its loss. “First they said its last contact point was somewhere over the South China Sea. Then they said it took a south-westerly course, only to change it later to westerly course and now, a north-westerly course towards Central Asia. The inputs have been glaringly erratic. No search is worth anything if it is conducted on the basis of grossly-erring information. We should’ve got the info corroborated before embarking on the search,” he told The Hindu.

“While low-flying is generally done to evade detection by radars, it makes no sense in this case as fall in altitude is at the cost of higher rate of fuel consumption.” This would obviously have a bearing on the endurance of the aircraft, Mr. Prakash, an ace pilot, pointed out denouncing theories of its course to Central Asia. “They needn’t have come all the way down to the Indian Ocean to commit suicide.”

Lieutenant-General (retd.) N.C. Marwah, former commander-in-chief of the Andaman and Nicobar Command which is controlling the Indian forces taking part in the search operation, told The Hindu that the archipelago, located strategically astride key maritime chokepoints, badly needed more air defence radars.

Given the possibility of the missing plane giving radars in the region the slip, he said the island group at the moment only had three air defence radars operated by the Navy and the Air Force at Port Blair, Car Nicobar and Campbell Bay, each with a range of up to 150 km. Even these would not be functional round-the-clock owing to maintenance requirements.
[/quote]

one BBC expert interviewed says that this could be a PRC plan to get an excuse to explore these area for geo political ambition
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Re: Malaysian Airlines Flight MH-370 goes missing

Post by SwamyG »

ramana wrote:Do we know for certain MH-370 ever took off?
I had the same thought. But then what about all the families of the 'passengers'?
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Re: Malaysian Airlines Flight MH-370 goes missing

Post by UlanBatori »

I do not buy the point that if the aircraft was flying, it was not tracked by any MILITARY RADAR. Not possible even in a million years.
The Aviator's perspective is BS. (Speaking of Aviators, even I am an Aviator onlee - I had ridden on a swing. Well, solo in airplanes as well... slightly smaller than an 777 thought.)

Mathias Rust reached Red Square at the height of the Cold War. Of course, several Soviet Air Defense commanders are said to have faced firing squads as a result. Careful mapping of the region shows that if the plane made turns at the points where it seems to have turned, one avoids all but the very periphery of any radar. That's the clearest indication that the plane was under intelligent, expert control. Evil, but expert and intelligent.

We have covered all that ground in days of careful discussion here. Some oiseule coming in and giving a BS interview or writing a blog on the strength of his "Aviatorness", is, well, just that: an oiseule venting.
UlanBatori
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Re: Malaysian Airlines Flight MH-370 goes missing

Post by UlanBatori »

SwamyG wrote:
ramana wrote:Do we know for certain MH-370 ever took off?
I had the same thought. But then what about all the families of the 'passengers'?
The PM is going to have some explaining to do in that case, hain? I do wonder if it crashed short of the coast, at around 1:07AM after a 12:41 takeoff.
A_Gupta
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Re: Malaysian Airlines Flight MH-370 goes missing

Post by A_Gupta »

About hack-jacking, the person whose experience of explosive decompression that I had cut&paste here says:
http://turcopolier.typepad.com/sic_semp ... l#comments

Us old pilots have a saying,"If ain't a Boeing, I ain't going". There is a reason for this.

Boeing design philosophy has maintained a connection with traditions of aircraft design and redundancies, which the only other builder of large aircraft, Airbus Industries, has not. Airbus has opted for leading edge computer automation of every aircraft system they can place it on.

Here is an example,Flight Controls. Air Bus is all electronic activated with no actual control cables running from the cockpit to the control surfaces. Boeing went this route on the 777 (it saves a good deal of weight) but…..in a nod to "sometimes unexpected things happen in the air philosophy", Boeing put in a back up manual control system, with which the pilots could manually land the aircraft in a dire emergency with no electronics. In an Airbus if the electronics are gone, you soon will be also.

To answer your question about software vulnerability/weaknesses.

On the current generation of aircraft, I don't believe it is a threat. In the future it no doubt will be. There really is no central operating system as such in the electronics suite of the 777. The autopilot (there are actually three of them ) comes closest to that description, and it has no signals reception capability from outside the aircraft, other than navigation signals. The various system that can receive signals from the ground, have to go thru a pilot review, and then be manually connected to other systems by the pilot.

I would tell new guys, "hey ,if the damn automation gets ahead of you, just click these two automation cutoff buttons, and it will fly like a J-3 Piper Cub". They did, and it would.
A_Gupta
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Re: Malaysian Airlines Flight MH-370 goes missing

Post by A_Gupta »

On the other hand, about hack-jacking, someone else posted this:
http://www.regulations.gov/#!documentDe ... -0958-0001

I for one don't understand all the implications of this document. It is not clear to me that there is a real vulnerability or just the possibility of one.
Discussion

The integrated network configurations in the Boeing Model 777-200, -300, and -300ER series airplanes may enable increased connectivity with external network sources and will have more interconnected networks and systems, such as passenger entertainment and information services than previous airplane models. This may enable the exploitation of network security vulnerabilities and increased risks potentially resulting in unsafe conditions for the airplanes and occupants. This potential exploitation of security vulnerabilities may result in intentional or unintentional destruction, disruption, degradation, or exploitation of data and systems critical to the safety and maintenance of the airplane. The existing regulations and guidance material did not anticipate these types of system architectures. Furthermore, 14 CFR regulations and current system safety assessment policy and techniques do not address potential security vulnerabilities which could be exploited by unauthorized access to airplane networks and servers. Therefore, these special conditions are being issued to ensure that the security (i.e., confidentiality, integrity, and availability) of airplane systems is not compromised by unauthorized wired or wireless electronic connections between the airplane information services domain, aircraft control domain, and the passenger entertainment services.

For the reasons discussed above, these special conditions contain the additional safety standards that the Administrator considers necessary to establish a level of safety equivalent to that established by the existing airworthiness standards.
UlanBatori
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Re: Malaysian Airlines Flight MH-370 goes missing

Post by UlanBatori »

AoA! Now u r saying the Havai Majik carbet can fly itself! Hope they don't get rid of the Houris-e-hava as well. Where is the joy in flying if not to get knocked on the head by fat h-e-h's 5 times in a night as one tries to get a wink of sleep in an aisle seat?
Harpal Bector
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Re: Malaysian Airlines Flight MH-370 goes missing

Post by Harpal Bector »

One hears two different perspectives on hack-jacking, one from pilots who seem to operate under the assumption that they are critical to the a/c's operation so remote control is not possible and the other from software people who seem to think they can bypass the pilot and so say that this is possible.

The truth may be somewhere in between, a hack-jacker may be able to gain enough control over the a/c that he can intimidate or subvert the pilot. That is the way man-in-the-plane hijacking used to take place.
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