West Asia News and Discussions

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 18 Jul 2014 02:33

Israel invades Gaza,thousands of reservists called up.

Israel Invades Gaza (Live Stream)
Thursday, July 17, 2014
via JPost

IDF ground forces began to move into the Gaza Strip on Thursday evening, the prime minister’s office confirmed.

The purpose of the operation was to destroy the Gazan terror tunnels leading to Israel, according to a statement released by the prime minister’s office.

The IDF said that the operation will involve infantry, engineering corps, and tank units combined with air force and naval support and intelligence.
Watch live streaming video from activistworldnewsnow at livestream.com

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 18 Jul 2014 02:50

They have been saying this for a few days that they will have to use ground forces.

krisna · Post by **krisna** » 18 Jul 2014 03:55

teetar

muraliravi · Post by **muraliravi** » 18 Jul 2014 18:05

Rudradev wrote:I have to when I see the West Asia thread being taken over by this Israel-Palestine saas-bahu drama.

I mean seriously... for the Duh-mericans, this "holy land" cr@p is the only thing in what they call the "Middle East" worth talking or learning about. Why? Because it takes place in the epicenter of World History, where the events of the Bah-bl occurred.

But from the point of view of Indian interests? Israel-Palestine is a SIDESHOW, period. Not worth spending bandwidth or time over, let alone discussing to death at the expense of far more relevant and far-reaching developments in Syria, Iraq, the peninsula, and Iran.

What's worse, people are giving all kinds of uber-senty made-for-Duhmerican-TV arguments... "what about the children," etc. What about the children who died on 26/11 or any of the other Paki terrorist attacks on our people, did you see them being mourned in Gaza? Or Tel-Aviv for that matter (besides the Chabad house residents).

My point of view is this and this only. We have no dog in this fight ideologically. We do business with the Israelis, therefore we have some transactional stake in their welfare and survival. We do no business with the Palestinians, so they don't matter any more from an Indian interests point of view than, say, the Samoans or the Inuit. Any sentiments and personal opinions expressed on their behalf are therefore strictly of timepass value. Making any more of this than has to be made, will only be self-defeating. Bus khatam.

Could not have said it better. RW Indians and hindoos need move on from this misconceived love affair with juice. Yes, we have some transactional interest, but thats about it. In 20 years, if we have a fully indigenous defense system which is hopefully more advanced than what the juice have, then what interest do we have in what happens there, unless we plan to use their soil to recover the far fetched erstwhile hindu lands in the middle east

JE Menon · Post by **JE Menon** » 18 Jul 2014 18:53

muraliravi,

Do you not know how to spell Jews?

This is a warning to desist with the approach you have chosen to take. This forum is not the place for it.

ShauryaT · Post by **ShauryaT** » 18 Jul 2014 20:45

JE Menon wrote:muraliravi,

Do you not know how to spell Jews?

This is a warning to desist with the approach you have chosen to take. This forum is not the place for it.

Hope you can extend the same courtesy to followers of other faiths and the rule applied consistently. Thanks.

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 19 Jul 2014 01:45

We Bharatiyas discuss issues as far away as Palestine, where we have no dog involved, because being "Dharmic Universalists"

it becomes our business to discuss morality of others. In fact all Universalists, with lots of time at hand, have to contribute their mustard to it, as the Germans say!

Yes, it's true. It is time-pass! Trekkies used to dwell on it as well. But I guess, we think about such stuff so as to know how we would have acted in such a situation.

There is also a lot of rona-dhona about Palestinian children. "But what have they done?" sort of questions!

So I'll give my mustard to it as well.

People say "children"! I say what "children"? There are no children, there are no women, there are no men in Islam! All are simply cannon-fodder to the Islamic cause and are generously used for propaganda tactics. Islamics everywhere, be it in streets of Lahore, Srinagar, Palestine, everywhere, small children are often pushed to the forefront on the street demonstrations. They move from sloganeering to stone-pelting to gun-toting to bomb-making and further. Their life-cycle can be modeled as a state-machine! Parents willingly push their children to get a taste of Jihad and when they get hurt, they start wailing. Do they learn any lessons? May be but never the right ones. The next kid is pushed into Jihad just like the older sibling. So child or not, his/her fate is hate, violence and worship of ignorance! So sparing such children death is condemning them to such a life of a burden on self and humanity.

But I agree, death shouldn't be the first option! If at all, it should be the last option!

The first option should be liberation of these kids, and that means taking them away from their monstrous parents and providing them with a life worth living and some enlightenment.

Israel should simply take away the Palestinian children from their Palestinian parents and nurture them with a little anti-Islamic thinking!

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 19 Jul 2014 03:12

I don't know this blogger but gives a very good summary of the Gaza situation.

What Indians need to know about Israel and Palestine

Rudradev · Post by **Rudradev** » 19 Jul 2014 03:41

ramana wrote:I don't know this blogger but gives a very good summary of the Gaza situation.

What Indians need to know about Israel and Palestine

I think the blogger is Kiran Kumar S, a well known Twitter personality of BJP.

Avarachan · Post by **Avarachan** » 19 Jul 2014 04:34

ramana wrote:I don't know this blogger but gives a very good summary of the Gaza situation.

What Indians need to know about Israel and Palestine

I have a very different view of the conflict. I recommend reading these articles:

(brief version)
http://www.ifamericansknew.org/history/

(detailed version)
http://www.ifamericansknew.org/history/origin.html

By the way, it should be noted that most Jews in the 19th century rejected Zionism. They knew that the land was already inhabited and that the attempt to drive the existing population off the land would lead to endless war. Even among the Jews who wanted to settle down in Palestine, there were those who advocated a different approach, but no one listened to them:
_______________

Proposals for Arab-Jewish Cooperation

“An article by Yitzhak Epstein, published in Hashiloah in 1907...called for a new Zionist policy towards the Arabs after 30 years of settlement activity...Like Ahad-Ha’am in 1891, Epstein claims that no good land is vacant, so Jewish settlement meant Arab dispossession...Epstein’s solution to the problem, so that a new “Jewish question” may be avoided, is the creation of a bi-national, non-exclusive program of settlement and development. Purchasing land should not involve the dispossession of poor sharecroppers. It should mean creating a joint farming community, where the Arabs will enjoy modern technology. Schools, hospitals and libraries should be non-exclusivist and education bilingual...The vision of non-exclusivist, peaceful cooperation to replace the practice of dispossession found few takers. Epstein was maligned and scorned for his faintheartedness.” Israeli author, Benjamin Beit-Hallahmi, “Original Sins.”

http://www.ifamericansknew.org/history/origin.html

disha · Post by **disha** » 19 Jul 2014 05:29

^^ Again we bleed for Palestinians!!! Funny in Kashmir, we dispossess pandits, rape them, murder them and then kick them out and later give the Kashmiri muslims lot of money so that they can be part of mainstream and all they do is JEEHard - no it is not hard work to get into IIT by getting through JEE., it is the ummah's version of Jihad where they slogan into International terrorism.

Meanwhile some brotherly love for Indian muslims from Macca-cas (Maccans living in Macca)

http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/i ... 226690.ece

In the crowded prisons, they claim, Saudi nationals had beds while others slept on the floor. Often they slept in toilets due to lack of space. Several repatriates claim to have been regularly beaten by jail warders.

“There were a few Indians we met. One man named Tariq from Allahabad had spent a decade in Selayya Jail and gone mad. We learnt that he had only been sentenced for two years. A Malayali named Shaukat died a couple of months back after the Rais (warder) refused to take him to a hospital when he suffered multiple heart attacks. I tried to commit suicide by hanging myself with a torn blanket but a Pakistani convict named Zafar Ahmed stopped me,” said Zafar Abid Iqbal from Ramgarh, Jharkhand.

And this

“There are 70 more Indians languishing there for years. I will raise it in Parliament. Their (Saudi) Islam does not evoke mercy or compassion,” Mr. Ansari told this paper. “There are not enough garlands in this world for Ansari sahib and Sushma ji. Even if we get palaces we shall never go there (Arabia) again,” said a choked Naushad. Others nod in agreement.

We should not care any hoot to the "cause" of Macca-cans., let Israeli's sort it out. And when did "palestenians" ever helped us? So yeah, the death of innocents is sad - but we have our own house to attend to first.

PS: I think we should popularize "Macca-cans" (As in maccacas - or monkeys in maccas) to warn of future Indians going as workers to Macca about the perils and the human rights abuse they face there and two start our own "The Benis Barbarian" thread.

{Edited}

Avarachan · Post by **Avarachan** » 19 Jul 2014 05:52

This is the state of the culture of the Israeli Army (IDF). By the way, the author of this article is Jewish.

http://www.richardsilverstein.com/2009/ ... s-leaders/

"IDF T-Shirts Boast of Killing Babies, Pregnant Women, Sodomizing Hamas Leaders"

"Some of the people who saw it told me, ‘Is that what you’ve got to show for the IDF? That it destroys homes?’ I can understand people who look at this from outside and see it that way, but I was in Gaza and they kept emphasizing that the object of the operation was to wreak destruction on the infrastructure, so that the price the Palestinians and the leadership pay will make them realize that it isn’t worth it for them to go on shooting. So that’s the idea of ‘we’re coming to destroy’ in the drawing.”

This is the sign of a deeply dysfunctional society. How the Israeli Army operates in Palestine is completely different from how the Indian Army operates in Kashmir. To say the situations are comparable is to insult the Indian Army, in my opinion.

UPDATE: The reason I brought up Palestine and Kashmir is to say that the situations are very different. I've noticed that a lot of people--for different reasons--want to club them together. For instance, jihadists club them both together as "lands occupied by the kuffar." Others--of a certain political persuasion (I'm trying not to be inflammatory, that's why I don't want to come up with a label)--club them together, and say that both are examples where valiant soldiers are defending the natives against jihadists. That, actually, is true with regards to Kashmir; in my opinion, it is not the case with Palestine, in general. In Kashmir, the Indian Army goes to extraordinary lengths to minimize civilian casualties; in Palestine, the Israeli Army intentionally targets civilians and civilian infrastructure, as part of its political-military strategy. This is counter-productive and will not work. I hope this is obvious. Just look at the support for Hezbollah within Lebanon. And Hezbollah defeated Israel in the 2006 war.

Regarding Richard Silverstein, he was discussing T-shirts designed by IDF soldiers. If you don't like his analysis, fine. But I would be interested in your analysis of the T-shirts' slogans, then. I'll be away from a computer for the weekend, but I can respond after that.

I have a certain sympathy for Jews. I wish them no evil. I abhor jihadism. But Israel's current approach is not the correct one. When fighting a long war, coercive, political, cultural, and spiritual elements must be intertwined. Brute force against the civilian population is not effective, in my opinion.

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 19 Jul 2014 06:05

With almost 300 Palestinians killed in Israel's indiscriminate attacks ,Hamas is under pressure to negotiate a truce.However,as one US analyst put it; "Only a political settlement will end the crisis.There is no military solution and we will see this occur again and again and again..."
Whatever successes Israel might take from this round of fighting,it will be shortlived,as every round has shown the Palestinian militant factions like Hamas and the Hiz growing stronger militarily and getting bolder in their attacks against Israel.The dear Lord forbid if one day ISIS gets into the spat and detonates a dirty bomb (they've acquired 40kg or uranium in Iraq) or some other form of WMD upon Israel.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/j ... -ceasefire
Pressure mounts on Hamas to negotiate ceasefire as Gaza death toll rises
Hamas left isolated by its refusal to accept a truce, as it seeks the release of prisoners and an easing of the blockade on Gaza

The people of Gaza faced the bloody consequences on Friday of Israel's dramatic escalation of the 10-day conflict and Hamas's intransigence in the face of mounting calls for a ceasefire. The fresh outbreak of hostilities has so far claimed the lives of more than 290 people, many of them children.

With intense fighting forcing tens of thousands of Palestinians to flee their homes, Israeli prime minister Binyamin Netanyahu warned that his military were ready for a "significant expansion" of the ground operation he has ordered to destroy Hamas tunnels dug under the border with Israel.

As diplomatic efforts to end the conflict continued in Cairo and at the UN, Hamas was looking increasingly isolated in its refusal to negotiate a truce without concessions in advance. It wants prisoners released and the easing of the blockade on Gaza by both Israel and Egypt.

"[Thursday night's] operation came after Israel agreed to the Egyptian ceasefire proposal and to the UN initiative for a humanitarian truce," Netanyahu told his security cabinet. "In both cases, Hamas continued firing. We chose to commence this operation after we had exhausted the other possibilities."

The primary aim, he explained, was the destruction of tunnels used by Palestinian militants to launch attacks in Israel. There was "no guarantee of 100% success", he said.

The Israeli Defence Forces said its troops had located 13 tunnels in Gaza on Friday, tweeting pictures of shafts and openings. .

Israeli hardliners have called for the military campaign to extend its aims to crushing Hamas and retaking control of Gaza.

At Jordan's request, the UN security council held an emergency meeting on Friday. Afterwards an official announced that the secretary-general, Ban Ki-moon, would be leaving on Saturday for the Middle East to help mediate the conflict.

Ban on Thursday chastised Israel for ignoring calls for restraint: "I regret that despite my repeated urgings, and those of many regional and world leaders together, an already dangerous conflict has now escalated even further."

In Gaza, medical staff were overwhelmed by the numbers of injured rushed to hospital in the hours following the escalation of Israel's military campaign. Electricity was cut to most of the population as power lines were brought down. The UN said the number of people seeking sanctuary from the fighting in 34 shelters had almost doubled to 40,000 since the start of the ground invasion.

But with the Palestinian death toll rising steadily towards 300, it is the Hamas leadership that has come under increasing pressure from multiple international sources to accept an immediate ceasefire in Gaza.

"The objective is to convince all the Palestinian factions to accept the ceasefire," one western diplomat told the Guardian.

French and Italian foreign ministers flew to Cairo, where negotiations have centred, to back Egypt's call for a prompt de-escalation in the conflict. Palestinian president Mahmoud Abbas, a Hamas rival, had argued until the small hours of Friday with representatives of Hamas and Palestinian Islamic Jihad, another Gaza-based group, in a failed attempt to get them to agree to a truce.

On Friday Abbas flew to Turkey to ask the prime minister, Recep Erdogan – who has better relations with Hamas – to persuade the group to accept a ceasefire.

"I hope there will be an agreement – maybe Turkey and Qatar [another Hamas ally] will have something," said Gamal Shobky, Abbas's envoy in Cairo. "We need this quickly to stop Palestinian blood."

Egypt has promised that the leaders of all concerned parties can come immediately to Cairo to start formal talks about Gaza – but only once a ceasefire is agreed.

The Arab League has backed Egypt's call for a quick ceasefire for several days, while Egypt's foreign minister issued an unusually harsh criticism of Hamas's stance, even as Israeli troops crossed the border into Gaza.

Sameh Shoukry told Egypt's state-run news agency: "If Hamas had accepted the Egyptian proposal, it could save the lives of at least 40 Palestinians" – a statement that reveals in stark terms how entrenched Egypt's opposition to Hamas has become.

Avarachan · Post by **Avarachan** » 19 Jul 2014 06:24

Israel wants to drag India down to its level of cruelty. What's so sad about this strategy for Israel is that this strategy is completely counter-productive. If Israel continues down this path, I don't think it'll survive as a state.

uddu · Post by **uddu** » 19 Jul 2014 07:53

Avarachan wrote:This is the state of the culture of the Israeli Army (IDF). By the way, the author of this article is Jewish.

http://www.richardsilverstein.com/2009/ ... s-leaders/

"IDF T-Shirts Boast of Killing Babies, Pregnant Women, Sodomizing Hamas Leaders"

"Some of the people who saw it told me, ‘Is that what you’ve got to show for the IDF? That it destroys homes?’ I can understand people who look at this from outside and see it that way, but I was in Gaza and they kept emphasizing that the object of the operation was to wreak destruction on the infrastructure, so that the price the Palestinians and the leadership pay will make them realize that it isn’t worth it for them to go on shooting. So that’s the idea of ‘we’re coming to destroy’ in the drawing.”
This is the sign of a deeply dysfunctional society. How the Israeli Army operates in Palestine is completely different from how the Indian Army operates in Kashmir. To say the situations are comparable is to insult the Indian Army, in my opinion.

Lol..seems more of a website from a left wing nutjobs running propoganda against Israel and Israeli Soldiers. It has become more of a habit of left wing nutjobs to run hatred and propoganda articles against Jews much more than Islamists themselves. And by the way, why are you bringing India into the discussion? What has India has to do even remotely to anything happening worldwide, except for the Islamists view of clubbing all kufr land and people while running propoganda?

JE Menon · Post by **JE Menon** » 19 Jul 2014 10:03

ShauryaT wrote:
JE Menon wrote:muraliravi,

Do you not know how to spell Jews?

This is a warning to desist with the approach you have chosen to take. This forum is not the place for it.
Hope you can extend the same courtesy to followers of other faiths and the rule applied consistently. Thanks.

This is a private forum ShauryaT. Your hope is noted. Admins will act within bounds of reason, I'm sure. Consistency is a good guide all around. Sly abuse of a country and people who have not harmed us, will not be tolerated. Those who have will face some more heat, up to a point. Common sense, one would have thought.

Those who feel uncomfortable with BRF's operational envelope are free to find other locations more suitable to their temperament, personal and political.

Those who breach forum guidelines, consistently, will be banned. Those who don't won't.

Shanmukh · Post by **Shanmukh** » 19 Jul 2014 10:15

I used to proudly tell my Jewish and Israeli friends that India was a country with no antisemitism. Looks like I was wrong, and badly. When people start quoting Richard Silverstein as a credible source for news about the Israeli army, I guess the heights of madness have been reached. It is like quoting Paul Rassinier and Francis Parker Yockey as authorities about the holocaust. C'est la vie.

JE Menon · Post by **JE Menon** » 19 Jul 2014 10:34

nageshks

Not every criticism of Israel amounts to anti-semitism. And anyway, the Arabs are supposedly a semitic people too. Like all countries, the Israelis mess up now and then.

On the other hand, the subtle and sly insinuations, and faith-tagging, and borrowed from distinctly biased sources - which many in India are unaware of, including perhaps the posters - will not be let slip.

You may feel you are wrong, badly, in your assessment about anti-Semitism in India; but then again, if India is anti-Semitic, then there is no country other than Israel itself which is not. In fact, you will probably find more anti-Semitism (given the very loose application of the term these days) among the Jews themselves. In India, no one gives particular attention to the Jews, or Israel, any more than they do to the hundreds of other faith practices in India. That is probably as normal as it is going to get.

So you may continue telling your Israeli friends about the reception Israel and Jews have in India, and you will be entirely correct in doing so. However, if your friends insist that India is anti-Semitic, it may be they who have to revisit their predispositions and expectations.

Arjun · Post by **Arjun** » 19 Jul 2014 10:45

nageshks wrote:I used to proudly tell my Jewish and Israeli friends that India was a country with no antisemitism. Looks like I was wrong, and badly. When people start quoting Richard Silverstein as a credible source for news about the Israeli army, I guess the heights of madness have been reached. It is like quoting Paul Rassinier and Francis Parker Yockey as authorities about the holocaust. C'est la vie.

Come on now, There's folks with variety of IQs and beliefs in India. I mean this is a country that actually voted for the Nehru-Gandhi dynasty at the center for a loong time! And you know that better than anyone.

But how do you land up linking this to anti-semetism ?? That is one concept that is surely alien to the Indian ethos.

Avarachan · Post by **Avarachan** » 19 Jul 2014 11:15

(I've updated my original post with this comment.)

The reason I brought up Palestine and Kashmir is to say that the situations are very different. I've noticed that a lot of people--for different reasons--want to club them together. For instance, jihadists club them both together as "lands occupied by the kuffar." Others--of a certain political persuasion (I'm trying not to be inflammatory, that's why I don't want to come up with a label)--club them together, and say that both are examples where valiant soldiers are defending the natives against jihadists. That, actually, is true with regards to Kashmir; in my opinion, it is not the case with Palestine, in general. In Kashmir, the Indian Army goes to extraordinary lengths to minimize civilian casualties; in Palestine, the Israeli Army intentionally targets civilians and civilian infrastructure, as part of its political-military strategy. This is counter-productive and will not work. I hope this is obvious. Just look at the support for Hezbollah within Lebanon. And Hezbollah defeated Israel in the 2006 war.

Regarding Richard Silverstein, he was discussing T-shirts designed by IDF soldiers. If you don't like his analysis, fine. But I would be interested in your analysis of the T-shirts' slogans, then. I'll be away from a computer for the weekend, but I can respond after that.

I have a certain sympathy for Jews. I wish them no evil. I abhor jihadism. But Israel's current approach is not the correct one. When fighting a long war, coercive, political, cultural, and spiritual elements must be intertwined. Brute force against the civilian population is not effective, in my opinion.

Shanmukh · Post by **Shanmukh** » 19 Jul 2014 11:18

Arjun wrote: But how do you land up linking this to anti-semetism ?? That is one concept that is surely alien to the Indian ethos.

Just see a few pages back. We have a poster who is talking about the greatness of the white race, as opposed to the `banker Jews'.

JE Menon · Post by **JE Menon** » 19 Jul 2014 11:22

How do you know if the poster is even Indian, before making the leap into generalization that you did regarding "anti-semitism" in India?

Shanmukh · Post by **Shanmukh** » 19 Jul 2014 11:28

JE Menon wrote:How do you know if the poster is even Indian, before making the leap into generalization that you did regarding "anti-semitism" in India?

The poster in question has identified himself as Indian (even the state to which he belongs), and has good insight into the politics of the country too. From the sum total of the writings, it seems most likely that the person is indeed an Indian.

JE Menon · Post by **JE Menon** » 19 Jul 2014 11:38

So? Still does not answer the question. How did you make the leap from one post to anti-Semitism in India?

On the other hand, if you think there are no anti-Semites in India, surely you must know you are mistaken. The question is how is it handled. For the most part, they are treated with the regard they deserve which is close to zero. But that will apply to pretty much any idiocy. Anti-Semitism is such an insignificant factor with the majority population in India that it is not worthy of note; perhaps the feeling towards Israel is better gauged by examining how effective minority communities - where such feelings may be more widely held - are in undermining relations between the two countries; again, the impact is not substantial.

I would venture to suggest that we all be a little less defensive on accusations of anti-Semitism. India and Israel need each other and there is a crystal clear convergence of interests on several issues, which have to remain unarticulated at least in public. Both countries would do well to keep that in mind. And for all intents and purposes, they do. On an individual level though, that sense of separate pride and shared pride may not have trickled down to the extent it could have.

Y. Kanan · Post by **Y. Kanan** » 19 Jul 2014 11:55

It would be easier to support the Isrealis if they didn't support Islamic terrorists all the time.

The Jews have been at the forefront of agitating for the overthrow of Assad and by extension have backed all manner of Islamic terror groups towards that end. The Isrealis are in bed with the Gulf Wahabbis who back Pakistan and want to destroy us. The Isrealis fund radical Sunni terror groups that blow up mosques and marketplaces in Iran. They work against Indian interests all the time and have no qualms backing the most murderous muslims that you can find anywhere in the Islamic world.

Isreal would sell us down the river in a heartbeat. They couldn't give two sh*ts about India, Hindus or anyone else that isn't a Jew.

But in any case, I'm always glad to see the Jews step up and do some fighting once in a while (instead of their usual modus operandi of manipulating the Americans into doing the fighting and dying on their behalf). The best part is when Isreal fights it distracts the muslim world and takes some of the heat off us, if only for a little while.

Y. Kanan · Post by **Y. Kanan** » 19 Jul 2014 12:07

Oh and by the way, stop using the term "anti-semitism". That's just intellectual laziness. It's a bullsh*t term the Jews have hijacked to silence anybody that questions them. It's no different than "Islamaphobia" - another ridiculous term used to silence critics of a barbaric religion by turning the tables on them. Terms like "anti-semite" and "Islamaphobe" are tools that bigots use to turn the tables on their opponents. If you refuse to tolerate intolerance, if you call out Zionists or muslims on their bigotry well blam! Guess what, now you're the bigot! Clever, eh?

Ever notice the term "Hinduphobe" doesn't exist? That's because Hindus don't need to silence our critics with shaming techniques. We can defend ourselves on our own merits, we don't have to silence our opponents because we can simply prove them wrong with facts. But muslims and jews can't do that -- they don't have any moral high ground so they must silence all opposition with ridiculous "poor me" victim tactics.

Arjun · Post by **Arjun** » 19 Jul 2014 13:34

nageshks wrote:
Arjun wrote: But how do you land up linking this to anti-semetism ?? That is one concept that is surely alien to the Indian ethos.
Just see a few pages back. We have a poster who is talking about the greatness of the white race, as opposed to the `banker Jews'.

You are right. I wouldn't generalize to rest of India but this particular post and poster does seem anti-semetic: http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewto ... 4#p1682374

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 19 Jul 2014 14:07

Deleted

JE Menon · Post by **JE Menon** » 19 Jul 2014 14:29

I'm unable to get the point of the discussion. Is it that Israel is doing all these things, and the parties opposed to it are not?

Who said they gave a crap about India? Why should they? Why should we give a crap about what happens to Israel? Let's say there is no reason for either side. But we have interests that match presently, and where joint work is possible or common approach is possible, it will happen. Indications are that such commonalities will continue for the foreseeable future.

In situations such as these, you simply take advantage to the extent you can. Israel is doing so. We are doing so, the world is doing so - to the extent they can. In the case of the Arab/Islamic parties, that extent is not much. And that is a function of?

Samudragupta · Post by **Samudragupta** » 19 Jul 2014 15:23

The incidents happenning in Med coast is of minimum consequences for India as of now and will continue to be so as long as Israel stands strong and even expand both in the East and North....
All these talk of Seimitism and HR bullshit does not hold any practical usage from the Indian POV...it may be used to hold brownies in the domestic politics but thats it...

kittoo · Post by **kittoo** » 19 Jul 2014 15:37

Y. Kanan wrote:It would be easier to support the Isrealis if they didn't support Islamic terrorists all the time.

The Jews have been at the forefront of agitating for the overthrow of Assad and by extension have backed all manner of Islamic terror groups towards that end. The Isrealis are in bed with the Gulf Wahabbis who back Pakistan and want to destroy us. The Isrealis fund radical Sunni terror groups that blow up mosques and marketplaces in Iran. They work against Indian interests all the time and have no qualms backing the most murderous muslims that you can find anywhere in the Islamic world.

The hell are you on about? When did Israelis (and I wont user word 'The Jews' as I will not use the blanket and bigot term) support Pakistanis?
I cant do anything but shake my head when I see some Hindus being the worst Jew haters there can be. You dont need to love them or Judaism, but having simple common-sense of 'enemy's enemy my friend' should be enough to at least not hate Israel, and to make the best use of the opportunity. And Israel has helped us on many occasions, especially with weapons.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 19 Jul 2014 15:58

I wasnt aware of this was a fake deleted

Ass bombers: Israel complains of Hamas donkey-terrorists

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 19 Jul 2014 16:57

Bibi seems hell bent upon earning the verdict of history to label him as the "Butcher of Gaza". He now wants to widen the conflict.When Israel possesses such a sophisticated arsenal of weaponry,including the most sophisticated UAVs and UCAVs,and can pick off his enemies at will,just as the US is doing in Af-Pak and elsewhere,why on earth is he determined to lust after a scorched earth policy? Over 300 Palestinains have been killed,mostly women and children,with less than half-a-dozen Israelis killed in contrast.Is he proud of his record? Does he want to be remembered as an Old Testament warrior who "smote his enemies in their hundreds and thousands"?

There is no doubt about Israel's right to defend itself from the attacks of the ungodly Hamas and the Hiz,but a sense of proportion needs to be exercised,not a mad rush of blood to the head as Bibi is displaying. This is a tragedy for humanity.The bell tolls for all of us.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world ... 15939.html
The ground offensive to smash the power of Hamas comes at a terrible cost. Kim Sengupta reports on the dead and maimed arriving at the hospitals

Kim Sengupta
Gaza
Friday 18 July 2014

Street fighting and ambushes, tank and artillery rounds, and air and naval strikes marked a day of sporadic but fierce fighting today as Israeli troops forced their way into the crowded towns and cities of Gaza.

The avowed aim of the mission ordered by Benjamin Netanyahu’s government was to smash the military power of Hamas. But there was a human cost: hospitals and clinics began to receive the dead and maimed, brought in by the few ambulances running. Others came in taxis, in private cars, some carried by hand. The Israeli military claimed that 17 Palestinian “militants” had been killed in firefights and 13 had surrendered. One Israeli soldier was killed: Staff Sergeant Eitan Barak, aged 20.

Hamas said it had inflicted casualties on the enemy in a number of encounters but it appeared more likely that S/Sgt Barak was killed by “friendly fire.” Palestinian health officials said 27 people had been killed and 260 injured since the invasion began. Some of the fighting was near tunnels which Hamas and Islamic Jihad have been using to fire rockets and as a way to cross the border into Israel.

Mr Netanyahu has stated that the operation “would be significantly widened”. Israel operates “buffer zones” around its security fences, shooting any Palestinians that enter the zones, leaving agricultural land unfarmed.

According to some Israeli military analysts, the army wants to extend the zone to 3km, which would make scarce farmland dangerous to use and thousands of homes uninhabitable. The intense bursts of combat, separated by periods of eerie calm, were accompanied by panicked families attempting to escape the violence. Some had returned to their homes after initially evacuating them. They did not believe the Israelis would act on their threats and that a ceasefire was pending. For many, it was the terrifying experience of tanks firing amid buildings which was the deciding factor.

The Hamid family of seven left their home in Beit Lahiya a week ago, soon after the conflict started, but returned on Wednesday thinking the danger was receding. They used the five-hour “humanitarian truce” agreed by the two sides on Thursday to stock up with food and water. Today, they returned home on two horse-drawn carts.

“I saw the tanks come up and start shooting. They were shooting all around,” said Mohammed Hamid, 19. “One of our relatives’ houses was hit and we thought we must get away.” One of their carts carried a cage with chickens and a bloodstained tray. A bystander wanted to buy one of the birds and asked if the tray was used for slaughter. “Normally,” said Waleed Sobah, “but that’s my cousin’s blood. She had a bad head injury. That was the first thing we could find to put under her. We haven’t had a chance to wash it.”

The Hamid family and those gathered around them had to leave as two missiles landed nearby. This was followed by long bursts of machine-gun fire nearby and the unusually loud sound of an Israeli drone overhead. People disappeared into doorways at the sound of aircraft overhead. Three figures stumbled down an empty stretch of Al-Awda road, coming out of Beit Hanoun. The road had proved particularly dangerous in the past two days and, after sizing them up, we offered them a lift.

Smoke rises after an attack by Israeli aircraft in the east of Gaza City yesterday Smoke rises after an attack by Israeli aircraft in the east of Gaza City yesterday
They were Basel Shawqat, 26, his wife Khulood, 23, and her sister Yasmine. Their home had been hit by tank fire and they had fled without gathering any belongings. They were anxious to get to a place of safety as Khulood was pregnant and well into her third trimester. Basel, however, did not want to tell us where they were moving to. “It’s better you don’t know the place. You see, I’ve been targeted by the Israelis. They think I am a terrorist”, he said. “In fact, we should get out of your car. They will try to attack me again.”

Most victims of Israeli strikes deny that they have any connection with militias, and there is a disproportionate number of women and children among the 260 killed and 2,000 wounded, according to figures supplied by Palestinian health officials.

Nine-year-old Fulla Shahaibar was on the roof of her home in central Gaza City with her cousins – brothers Jihad, 11, and Waseem, nine – when the building was hit by a missile. The family said no warnings were given.

Another cousin, Basel Shahaibar,10, was injured in the attack. He is now in the intensive care unit at Shifa Hospital in Gaza City suffering from head and abdominal injuries and fractured arms. His father, Yassir, 35, said: “This is not the first time that the Israelis have hit kids. We have had no explanation why this keeps happening. Now, with soldiers here as well, there is a great danger that this will continue to happen. I just wish this to stop. I don’t feel any deep anger toward the Israelis; I just feel very sad.”

An Israeli armoured column moves towards the Gaza border yesterday An Israeli armoured column moves towards the Gaza border yesterday (Getty Images)
Many of the other beds in the ward were filled with patients from other hospitals without the facilities to deal with them. Wafaa, a clinic east of Gaza which specialises in rehabilitation, was hit by tank fire on Thursday night, for a second time in three days. “[The Israeli army] had asked us to evacuate before and we told them that we had nowhere to go to,” said Ali Hassan, one of the directors. “They called again last night at around 8.15, again demanding that we evacuate. As I was taking to them, the firing began. They hit the second, third and fourth floors. Luckily, the patients were on the first floor.”

Why did Mr Hassan think the hospital was targeted? “We don’t know. But this is Gaza. All kinds of things happen here which will not be tolerated anywhere else.”

JE Menon · Post by **JE Menon** » 19 Jul 2014 17:30

Poor donkeys.

Shanmukh · Post by **Shanmukh** » 19 Jul 2014 17:33

Y. Kanan wrote:It would be easier to support the Isrealis if they didn't support Islamic terrorists all the time.

Which anti-Indian Islamist terrorist have the Israelis supported? Can you please be specific? As for the terrorists in their neighbourhood, most of the terrorists in their neighbourhood are Islamists (unless you count nearly defunct organisations like the PFLP, which included a good number of Christian Arabs in its ranks). Israel has played them off one against the other, cynically, as occasion offers to alleviate its own situation. Please link, specifically, which terrorists and which anti-India terror acts have been perpetrated/sponsored by Israel, will you?

The Jews have been at the forefront of agitating for the overthrow of Assad and by extension have backed all manner of Islamic terror groups towards that end.

This is again a misreading of the situation. Israel has been extremely worried about the Islamic spring, and has been extremely reticent about getting involved - for completely selfish reasons, of course. They are worried about a refugee crisis with huge numbers of Syrians spilling over their northern border, and they would rather not replace Assad with something infinitely worse. Most of their concern is about the chemical weapons Assad possesses. I don't know if you read the Israeli press, but the divisions has been roughly along the Centre-Right divide, with the Israeli right (principally, journalists associated with Yisrael Beitenu, and Likud) not wanting to get involved, and the Israeli Centre and Left (mainly journalists associated with Yesh Atid, and HaAvoda (Israeli Labour Party) wanting to go ahead with the US. The religious parties don't seem to have any particular preferences, and their journalists have been on both sides.

See this article for an example of what an Israeli right wing journalist thinks.

http://www.jpost.com/Opinion/Columnists ... ses-324714

Her only concern is about the chemical weapons.

RSoami · Post by **RSoami** » 19 Jul 2014 21:02

Y. Kanan wrote:It would be easier to support the Isrealis if they didn't support Islamic terrorists all the time.

They support Islamic terrorists all the time ?!

The Jews have been at the forefront of agitating for the overthrow of Assad and by extension have backed all manner of Islamic terror groups towards that end. The Isrealis are in bed with the Gulf Wahabbis who back Pakistan and want to destroy us.

You talking about US and not Israelis. Arent you ?!

The Isrealis fund radical Sunni terror groups that blow up mosques and marketplaces in Iran.

They use one group against another. Thats smart.

They work against Indian interests all the time and have no qualms backing the most murderous muslims that you can find anywhere in the Islamic world.

They work against Indian interests. How?

Isreal would sell us down the river in a heartbeat. They couldn't give two sh*ts about India, Hindus or anyone else that isn't a Jew.

Quite possible, but most other countries would do that too. Whats so special about Israel. Who is `us` here in sell `us` btw ?

But in any case, I'm always glad to see the Jews step up and do some fighting once in a while (instead of their usual modus operandi of manipulating the Americans into doing the fighting and dying on their behalf).

Oh !! The US is as war thirsty as it can get. Thanks to its share of genius strategic experts. It doesnt need no manipulation. Unless you suggesting that Yugoslavia was bombed because of some manipulation by Israel.

RoyG · Post by **RoyG** » 19 Jul 2014 21:51

Jews are the Brahmins of the Judeo-Christian civilization and are at the forefront of digesting dharmic thought. They are looking after their own interests and we have to look after ours. No friends in this business. If we can use them to secure our interests, then great. Culturally, we have nothing in common.

Yogi_G · Post by **Yogi_G** » 19 Jul 2014 22:16

On a people to people basis there are two shades. one the well educated nationalistic urban Indians hitting it off with their Israeli counterparts. the rural nationalist Hindus also look up to Jews for their valiant fight against an illogical enemy hell bent on wiping out the Israel identity. second type is the on the ground interaction you see of Israeli tourists in Goa. There is literally war between them and the shopkeepers with the latter at times being treated like sub humans. Many shops have stopped servicing Israelis as a result.

If you read the Torah in its literal sense you will be more mind-f**ked than of reading the Koran. But Jews have to be credited of going against fundamentalism in a larger societal sense something I have no hope for the Muslims of ever doing.

There is no shame in accepting the truth. The only reason I look upon fondly of an average Israeli chap is their deep hatred of Muslims and being in the same fight as us. If Muslims werent in the picture the Jew and the Hindu would have been sworn enemies with the former calling us idolators and with us calling them as Monotheistic and fundamental fanatics with a narrow minded myopoic view.

Rudradev · Post by **Rudradev** » 19 Jul 2014 22:54

Many Jews who support India do so on a basis of steady, clear, institutionally-grounded pragmatism: e.g. the Israel government, AIPAC, several Jewish lawmakers & politicians in the US.

Some Jews who relentlessly oppose India do so on a basis of ideology: a History Centric worldview that seeks to impose Synthetic Unity and hence cannot offer Mutual Respect to Dharma civilizations. e.g. Martha Nussbaum, Wendy Doniger, and Katrina Lantos-Swett of USCIRF.

These two realities should tell us everything we need to know about how to interact with Jews for our maximum benefit. Idealistic Lovefests and broad brush malignant Rants are equally out of place and counterproductive.

Shanmukh · Post by **Shanmukh** » 19 Jul 2014 23:04

Rudradev wrote: Some Jews who relentlessly oppose India do so on a basis of ideology: a History Centric worldview that seeks to impose Synthetic Unity and hence cannot offer Mutual Respect to Dharma civilizations. e.g. Martha Nussbaum, Wendy Doniger, and Katrina Lantos-Swett of USCIRF.

Just a small nit, Rudradev-ji. Both Wendy Doniger and Martha Nussbaum were born Christians, were raised Christians, and converted to Judaism later in their lives. So, the hardcore Jews would not even accept them as Jews (although, none will probably say so to their faces). I think I mentioned in a previous post of mine that western Jews would be the hardest to get along with for us Indians. It should be mentioned, I think, that there is a significant difference between Israeli Jews and American Jews.