Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - July 07, 2009

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pgbhat
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - July 07, 2009

Post by pgbhat »

Strategic stability in South Asia ---- Tariq Osman Hyder
<SNIP>
Pakistan continues to perceive that, while socio-economic progress and combating extremism constitute core objectives, its main existential threat continues to emanate from India. An India in which core policy makers and influential segments continue to regard the creation of Pakistan from "mother India" as a historical mistake, which at best may still be undone and till then Pakistan should be dealt with so that it gives up its support for Kashmiri self-determination and acquiesces to a subordinate role in South Asia.

Pakistan, though a significant middle order country, has always faced an asymmetrical imbalance and threat in the conventional field from a much larger India. Pakistan's hard won nuclear capability has kept the peace by providing, through a credible minimum nuclear deterrent, strategic stability in South Asia.

<SNIP>

As part of the composite dialogue expert level talks were initiated on both nuclear and conventional CBMs. In the first Nuclear CBMs meeting in June 2004, both sides agreed that the nuclear capabilities of each other, which are based on their national security imperatives, constitute a factor for stability. Two main agreements on pre-notification of ballistic missile tests and reduction of risks of accidents related to nuclear weapons were signed. Even before India broke off the peace process after the Mumbai incident, the peace process had slowed down. There was no concrete movement on the core issue of Kashmir and no promise of movement on Siachin, Sir Creek and the Indus Waters which provide Pakistan's life blood. While the nuclear CBMs agreements continue to hold, there was no forward movement and India wanted to de-link itself from Pakistan even in this nuclear CBMs field in which India reversed the maxim of thinking globally and acting locally. :((

In this India has been encouraged by a number of developments. The US-Indo nuclear deal was the high water mark of this bilateral strategic partnership. The United States lost the opportunity of encouraging nuclear restraint in South Asia while providing civil nuclear power to both fossil fuel deficit countries. The agreement enhanced India's strategic capability, freeing its limited uranium reserves for military use and keeping eight reactors out of safeguards with the ability to produce fissile material for 280 nuclear weapons annually, apart from its equally un-safeguarded 13 breeder reactors programme. :((

The US, Israel and Russia agreed to cooperate with India for its ABM programme which would further destabilise the strategic balance and force Pakistan to increase its missile throw weight. :(( India rejected and the international community did not support Pakistan's proposal for a Strategic Restraint Regime with its three interlocking elements of conflict resolution, nuclear and missile restraint, including non-introduction of ABMs, and conventional balance, to avoid an unnecessary arms race.

<SNIP>

India justifies this build-up as it claims that it faces potential threats from China as well as from Pakistan. While US wants to build up India as a counter to China's growing influence, and Russia may wish to do so to a lesser degree apart from maintaining its strategic partnership with India in the face of growing American influence, given the growing economic and political relationship between India and China, no objective strategist has been able to postulate any credible conflict scenario between the two countries.

On the other hand, 95 percent of India's military potential is targeted against Pakistan. The planned nuclear submarine fleet with its short range ballistic missiles or cruise missiles is Pakistan-specific

<SNIP>
Pakistan's response has been that it will take all steps to safeguard its security and to maintain strategic balance in the region. What should Pakistan do? First of all develop its own second strike nuclear submarine based capability on which it must have given some thought having been long aware of the Indian programme. Secondly, equip its conventional submarines with nuclear-tipped cruise missiles. Thirdly, as the Russian assistance to India for this project, and the lack of any objection from the US or any other party has shown that both leasing of nuclear submarines and technology for their production are completely compatible with the global non-proliferation regime, Pakistan should explore such possibilities. Fourthly, the most important lesson for Pakistan, a latecomer by necessity as a nuclear state, is that while it does not have to match India, nuclear weapon by nuclear weapon, even so, to maintain strategic stability in these changing and adverse ground realities, it will need to continue its modest fissile material production in the foreseeable future and cannot brook any developments or negotiations counter to this vital national security requirement. Hence, faced with these escalating threats Pakistan must oppose the initiation of negotiations on the Fissile Material Cut-off Treaty, which countries, with their own comfortable fissile material stockpiles and who have also helped arm India, want to begin and prioritise in the conference on Disarmament in Geneva, specifically at Pakistan's expense, and if negotiations begin, not to accept any outcome detrimental to Pakistan' strategic and energy security. If our policy makers and negotiators in Geneva do not live up to this task they will never be forgiven by the nation.

The writer, a former diplomat, headed Pakistan's delegation in talks with India on nuclear and conventional CBMs (2004-2007). Email: ambassador.tariqosmanhyder@ gmail.com
Paki diplomats are basically rabid lot ...
from Strobe Talbott's book
Another difference was personal. In India, my designated counterpart was a senior figure who was lose to the prime minister and who had standing of his own in the eyes of the parliament, the press, and the public. In Pakistan I was to deal with Shamshad Ahmad, the foreign secretary, whose primary role in May had been to blame the Indian test—and therefore the Pakistani one as well—on the United States. He was not just below Jaswant in the pecking order but in a different category—a civil servant rather than a member of the leadership. While Jaswant’s team was highly disciplined in every respect, some of Shamshad Ahmad’s colleagues tended to be querulous, surly, and sometimes abusive. On one occasion, early in our dealings, a member of the Pakistani delegation exploded at our observation that his country seemed always to react in knee-jerk fashion to Indian moves. He rose out of his chair and lunged across the table as though he were going to strangle either Bruce Riedel or me, depending on whose neck he could get his fingers around first. He had to be physically restrained. :rotfl: :roll:
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - July 07, 2009

Post by archan »

Tariq Osman Hyder wrote:The US, Israel and Russia agreed to cooperate with India for its ABM programme which would further destabilise the strategic balance
So let me get this right. India is working on a shield against anyone who fires a missile at her. Now according to Mr. Hyder, India should not be allowed to do that. Or, India should be made to remain vulnerable to incoming missiles, because some day the pakis would like to shoot some her way. Now it will be such a heartbreak for the pakis if their expensive paint job is wasted on a missile that could not kill some infidels. So, in the interest of regional stability, India should not enhance her defense against missiles and keep herself vulnerable. Otherwise... :((
But why are the pakis worried about the ABM so much? I found them laughing on the ABM system giving reasons why it won't work. So why are the paki analysts worried about India wasting its money into a system that won't work? I just don't get it! :oops:
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - July 07, 2009

Post by Prem »

Paki diplomats are basically rabid lot ...
from Strobe Talbott's book
[. While Jaswant’s team was highly disciplined in every respect, some of Shamshad Ahmad’s colleagues tended to be querulous, surly, and sometimes abusive. On one occasion, early in our dealings, a member of the Pakistani delegation exploded at our observation that his country seemed always to react in knee-jerk fashion to Indian moves. He rose out of his chair and lunged across the table as though he were going to strangle either Bruce Riedel or me, depending on whose neck he could get his fingers around first. He had to be physically restrained. :rotfl: :roll:
This proves the effectiveness of Chai Biscoot diplomacy on putting too much burden on Baki Brain capabilities.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - July 07, 2009

Post by Anujan »

pgbhat wrote: There was no concrete movement on the core issue of Kashmir and no promise of movement on Siachin, Sir Creek and the Indus Waters which provide Pakistan's life blood.
Didnt know that Indus was part of the composite dialogue. What is there to talk about Indus ? There is IWT that has held for over 49 years, even amidst 2 full fledged wars and one mini-war. IWT provides for monitoring, information exchange and arbitration mechanism. Even Baglihar which was very contentious was settled using the mechanisms provided for by the IWT. I thought that it was a settled issue. (Pakis can still request for information under the aegis of IWT vis-a-vis kishenganga if they so wish. Maybe even appeal for arbitration if they so wish). Whats new to talk about ?

Or is the ambassador being the usual sneaky-paki trying to invent grievances and insert non-issues into the Indo-Pak dialog ?

Also did anyone notice that among all the "issues" the honorable ambassador raises, pakis are the ones looking for "concessions" ?
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - July 07, 2009

Post by pgbhat »

Why an arms race? ---- Ayesha Siddiqa
We don’t need to copy the Indians because the Pakistan Navy already has the French Agosta 90B subs with an air-independent propulsion system that allows it to remain submerged for longer periods than the older subs. This means that if the navy could miniaturise nuclear warheads, it could sneak into Indian waters with the Agosta 90B at a time of extreme crisis and threaten the Indians. Technically speaking, the job is done. Now, we don’t have to follow the Indians who probably wanted the new submarine for a feel-good effect and to join the league of the ‘bigger boys’ including China, the US, Britain and France.

The real danger of the launch of a nuclear submarine by India is that it might force us to follow suit. If our admirals close their eyes they might just see their counterparts sticking out their tongues at them. This could prove to be a dangerous bait and bleed us financially. :P A nuclear submarine is an extremely expensive project. The Indians have managed to do it because they had more cash and a lot of Russian help. Pakistan, that had toyed with the idea of hiring nuclear submarines during the 1980s in response to India’s action and had failed to get one, might want to buy one from China. It does not seem likely that Beijing would give this technology to Pakistan at this stage.

An arms race is not the best formula for Pakistan. We will probably want to force ourselves to acquire this or that technology within a short span of time. There are two possible options. First, we could covertly buy the technology from someone and end up with the kind of bargain we did with North Korea — this might give us a bloody nose. {IOW photo chor II } The second would be to start on an indigenous product. :twisted:
Indeed, if any lesson is to be drawn from the Indian nuclear sub launch it is that Pakistan must revamp its entire defence production policy that rarely gets attention because those at the top are interested in buying weapons off-the-shelf. We have to develop our engineering and technology base, which in turn means greater education. And better education will mean setting our priorities straight. (One is reminded of a poster inscribed with the hope that a day would come when schools would have ample money and the air force would have to hold a bake sale to buy a bomber.)
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - July 07, 2009

Post by negi »

Anujan...I guess despite getting liberal concessions in IWT Pakistan agri scene aint too rosy and obviously they need more water . I am going to dig up more into this issue , btw Sridharji's paper should be a nice start on this subject . Sigh...I guess high time to actually start reading/searching stuff . 8)
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - July 07, 2009

Post by pgbhat »

Arihant is giving Pakis jitters .... :twisted: :rotfl:
Posting in full.
Thwarting the hawks — on both sides ---- Cyril Almeida
What do you do when a bully taunts you? Hit him? Hit the gym and bulk up before fighting back? Or shrug and get on with your life?

For the macho tribe of chest-thumping nationalists here, the latter isn’t an option when the bully is India. They’ve gone and built themselves a nuclear submarine? We’ll show them that for every INS Arihant, we can build two. Bigger, badder, better. ‘Destroyer of the enemies’? We’ll teach ’em.

Never mind that the Advanced Technology Vessel project is India’s attempt at reassuring itself that it is really part of the big-boys club. Never mind that a nuclear-powered submarine isn’t the same thing as a nuclear attack submarine or a nuclear-missile-capable submarine. Never mind that a nuclear attack submarine may not fundamentally change the equation in a war between the two countries. Never mind that a nuclear-missile-capable submarine may not seriously affect the nuclear equation or the strategic balance between the two countries. Never mind the facts. They have one, and we better respond.

Of course, for every Pakistani obsessed with India, India probably has two Indians obsessed with the ‘threat’ from Pakistan. Was it a coincidence that INS Arihant was launched for testing on Kargil Vijay Diwas, the July 26 anniversary commemorating the Indian soldiers who died in the Kargil war and the day 10 years ago that Indian forces recaptured a strategic post in Kargil?

What we can do to inflame the Indians, India — democratic, peace-loving, teddy-bear-clutching, emerging-economic-power, terrorism-victim India — can do one better. So you have the prime minister’s wife breaking a ceremonial coconut against the hull of INS Arihant, a craft with greater ambitions than simply containing Pakistan, on the day Kargil was retaken by the Indians.

Could the Indians be hoping Pakistan will take the bait and launch an economically ruinous quest for big-boy toys? Thirty years and billions of dollars have made the Indians aware of just how costly the nuclear submarine ambition is. And as India begins to collect more and more newfangled war machines, it may try to goad Pakistan into responding, or trying to respond, in some measure with its own set of fabulously expensive toys. Toys we can’t afford.

(Contrary to popular opinion, Pakistan’s and India’s nuclear weapons have been acquired relatively cheap compared to the monstrously expensive conventional weapons systems.)

Thankfully, other than the usual reactionary Foreign Office and predictably bristling Pakistan Navy responses, most decision-makers have at least publicly kept their heads for now and aren’t ranting about the need to match India weapon for weapon. But defence upgrades and potential purchases are in the news again, and we have to be careful that some over-enthusiastic general, admiral or air marshal doesn’t get his way.

Meanwhile, the Pakistan hawks in India have been active on other fronts too. Their latest grouse? The joint statement issued after the meeting between prime ministers Singh and Gilani in Sharm el Sheikh. Specifically, two sentences in the joint statement. “Prime Minister Gilani mentioned that Pakistan had some information on threats in Balochistan and other areas.” “Action on terrorism should not be linked to the composite dialogue process and these should not be bracketed.”

Outrage, incredulity, shock and pandemonium have greeted these sentences in India. Why? Because the second suggests that the Indian demand that we shut down LeT and sundry militant networks completely before they talk to us again has been discarded. And the first suggests that, gasp, India could be up to mischief in Pakistan.

(Incidentally, whether a dossier enumerating India’s anti-Pakistan activities was handed over to the Indians has been hotly disputed. Singh himself denied from the floor of the Lok Sabha on Wednesday that the dossier was given. But, as with such diplomatic things, the controversy originates from Pakistan later crowing about handing over the dossier — when it was received on the condition that its existence and receipt not be made public.)

Hawks exist everywhere and at all times in some measure, but the problem is that they can be in the ascendancy at some points in time in some places. Right now, the Pakistan hawks in India are in an aggressive mood and want to rough us up a bit.

But here in Pakistan the India hawks are on the back foot. Whatever lingering suspicions there may be about rogue intelligence elements being involved in the Mumbai attacks, the local investigation here has consistently thrown up facts similar to those alleged by India — meaning that we clearly understand that Mumbai was as much a strategic disaster for us as it was a blow to India’s national prestige and psyche.

And yet as we hold up our clean hands — at least when it comes to Mumbai — the Indians are trying to wrestle us to the floor and pin us into submission. The alternating nonsense of hawks on either side of the border holding the rational, thinking people of both countries hostage is right now in a phase where the Pakistan hawks in India are trying aggressively to exert their influence on the state of relations between the two countries.

So what should Pakistan do? Nothing, or at least nothing that provides an opening to the India hawks in Pakistan. The more we reach out to India and get rebuffed by their hawks, the more ammunition the hawks in Pakistan will have in their bid to return to centre stage.

So if India wants to goad us into an arms race, turn the other cheek. If India still hasn’t decided if it wants to talk to us, then we should stop begging them to return to the negotiating table. If India wants A to Z on the militancy issue, we should focus on taking the Mumbai investigation to its logical, immediate end. If India wants to beat up on us in international forums, we should focus instead on the immediate doables in our problems with militancy here.

Let India resolve its internal arguments with its hawks. Let’s see what the American pressure on India yields. Let Manmohan Singh figure out how far he is willing and able to go on Pakistan. Eventually India will have to return to the negotiating table.

Our main concern should be this: when the Indians do return to the table, it shouldn’t be our hawks who are there to greet them.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - July 07, 2009

Post by ramana »

So he adovcates swallowing their H&D and turn other cheek. Very Gand*ian. So long as its not the one they present to Amritraj.

Did anyone notice that quite few Portugese Goans who didnt make it to "Motherland" went to TSP and are their parrots?
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - July 07, 2009

Post by shiv »

:rotfl:

This means that Gilani will not be around in ten years time to answer any questions about this statement. Pakistan does not even know how many Pakis exist in Pakland - they have had no census for two decades.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - July 07, 2009

Post by Vivek_A »

Posted for your mocking pleasure

Pakistan’s IT exports in hot waters, up 19 percent only
By Muhammad Yasir

KARACHI: The country's exports of Information Technology (IT) and its related services have registered a modest growth of 19 percent compared with last fiscal year. This is the lowest exports growth rate since 2004 because the exports have been witnessing 50 percent growth consecutively for the last five years.

As per statistics obtained from Pakistan Software Export Board (PSEB), the country's IT and IT-enabled services exports have touched $201 million despite its plunging demand in the international markets as compared with $169 million exports in 2007-08.

However, the country has missed its exports target of $255 million as the global economic recession has affected its offshore demand in the second half of 2008-09.

Managing Director Pakistan Software Export Board (PSEB), Talib Baluch, said the achievement of growth in exports is quite good for the industry in the scenario when global downturn has exerted its impacts on IT and other industries worldwide.

He said IT industry has started feeling the pinch of global economic slowdown as offshore demand of our exports has been declining in the first half of 2008-09, however, he added the country's exports will take time to rebound, most likely with the recovery of its demand in global economies.

Most of the Pakistani companies are working for financial institutions, automobile, call centres and miscellaneous services sectors in different countries.

United State of America is the largest buyer of Pakistan IT-enable service with a share of 58 percent in country's exports. It is followed by UK, where the exports are hovering around 10 percent. The pie of total exports shows 16 percent share of other countries including Australia, Canada, Thailand, UAE and others.

On the contrary, Foreign Direct Investment (FDI) in Software Development has increased by 40.2 percent to $19.1 million in 2008-09.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - July 07, 2009

Post by pgbhat »

^^^^ why this :(( :(( Paki IT and IT enabled services is doing pretty well and giving them returns in billions no need to worry about alternative ITvity stuff.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - July 07, 2009

Post by Sanjay M »

Now that the Krapistani Supreme Court has ruled Mushy's coup illegal, how far can they continue to push things? I don't see that the military is in a great position to intervene, with the Americans breathing down their necks. A military that is bombarding the precious holy Islamic soil is not going to get a whole lot of popular support. Meanwhile, the Court Justices look like heroes in front of the people, for having finally won out over the much reviled Mushy. That puts the balance of power in the hands of the judiciary, with both the unpopular civilian govt and the unpopular military on the defensive. The only way I can see either of these latter groups undermining the judiciary is by directing terror attacks against them.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - July 07, 2009

Post by pgbhat »

Who is speaking the truth — Pakistan or India? ---- Amir Mir
Balochistan apart, the sources say the Pakistani dossier also included pictures of several non-Muslims (all of them uncircumcised), who had been killed during the ongoing Pakistani military action in the Swat valley. In addition, proof of Indian involvement in terror financing in Pakistan has also been provided to New Delhi, along with the names of Indian agents who had crossed the border to link up with militants on the Pakistani side of Wagah. In other words, India is accused of not only fishing in troubled waters of Balochistan, but destabilising a large swathe of Pakistan.
:eek: :rotfl:
The dossier reportedly reveals details of the Indian hand in the attacks on the Sri Lankan cricket team in Lahore on March 3, 2009 and on the Manawan police training academy attacks. It is claimed that the authorities have identified the RAW operatives who were in touch with the perpetrators of the two terrorist attacks, that proof of their interaction has been attached with the dossier handed over to New Delhi. Some, though, say these claims appear feeble - the Pakistan police had earlier concluded that the attack on the Lankan team was carried out by a sectarian Sunni group, Lashkar-e-Jhangvi (LeJ), which actually wanted to hijack the bus to seek the release of their arrested chief, Akram Lahori. The Punjab police had first accused the Lashkar-e-Taiba (LeT) for having carried out the 3/3 attack in Lahore.

It seems unlikely, some feel, that India would back an obscurantist Sunni militant group known for its hatred towards India. In the March 30 attack on the Manawan police training academy Capital City Police Officer (CCPO) Lahore Pervaiz Rathore had talked of Indian involvement, claiming that the perpetrators were pro-India Afghans. When his attention was drawn to Baitullah Mehsud claiming responsibility for the Manawan attack, the Lahore police chief had said: It is a well-known fact that Baitullah Mehsud is paid for terrorism and he can do anything for the sake of money.
The pakis will repeat a lie a million times and start believing it themselves..... rest of world be damned. :roll:
Last edited by Gerard on 01 Aug 2009 08:42, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - July 07, 2009

Post by Gerard »

Balochistan apart, the sources say the Pakistani dossier also included pictures of several non-Muslims (all of them uncircumcised), who had been killed during the ongoing Pakistani military action in the Swat valley
As predicted
:rotfl:
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - July 07, 2009

Post by shiv »

Gerard wrote:
Balochistan apart, the sources say the Pakistani dossier also included pictures of several non-Muslims (all of them uncircumcised), who had been killed during the ongoing Pakistani military action in the Swat valley
As predicted
:rotfl:
Pakistanis are stupid because they do not realise that all Hindu men have "Om" tattooed on the inside of their foreskins.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - July 07, 2009

Post by arun »

pgbhat wrote:Who is speaking the truth — Pakistan or India? ---- Amir Mir
Balochistan apart, the sources say the Pakistani dossier also included pictures of several non-Muslims (all of them uncircumcised), who had been killed during the ongoing Pakistani military action in the Swat valley. .................
The pakis will repeat a lie a million times and start believing it themselves..... rest of world be damned. :roll:
:rotfl: :
Circumcision no longer acid test to identify Indian spies

Omer Farooq Khan, TNN 11 April 2009, 12:13am IST

ISLAMABAD: In the past, jubilant Pakistani authorities have announced that foreign (read Indian) agents were involved in explosions and attacks in the restive Swat region based on examination of the corpses of the killed attackers.

But the “acid test” cops and officials used to determine whether any of the dead ones was Indian was to check whether the man had been circumcised. If not, they would summarily dub him Hindu and therefore an Indian agent.

But as more such cases showed up, in places where there was not a ghost of a chance of any Indian involvement, doctors and officials began to worry about the methodology. It’s then that they stumbled on a little-known anthropological fact about Pashtun tribes in Waziristan, from where many of the Tehreek-e-Taliban or Pakistani Taliban come.

It appears that many in the backward tribal areas of the country like Waziristan don’t undergo the mandatory circumcision that all Muslim males should undergo. The story took a rather comic turn when some of government’s own injured paramilitary soldiers, when examined, were found to be uncircumcised. This was especially true of wounded soldiers of the Frontier Constabulary from Waziristan, engaged in fighting Taliban militants. ................

TOI
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - July 07, 2009

Post by archan »

I didn't know that the pakis really took this circumcision "proof" so seriously. :rotfl: They do realize that India has as many (perhaps) more circumcised men than they do? and you don't even have to be a Muslim in some cases.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - July 07, 2009

Post by pgbhat »

^^
If we in BRF take BENIS seriously why should'nt Pakis? :|
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - July 07, 2009

Post by Prem »

The acid test ought to be the Brain circumcision .Indians will never have it and Pakis cannot be Paki without it.

ADDED latter, we do have some Pandeys, Roys and Natyyars, Bakis are welcome to use them as proof.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - July 07, 2009

Post by sanjaykumar »

Is the Grand Vizier's wazoo-e-Waziristan circumscised?
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - July 07, 2009

Post by somnath »

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - July 07, 2009

Post by Dilbu »

Indus Water Treaty is solid chai-biskoot territory. Before TSP can even think about making any progress there they will have to deal with the pot bellied paan chewing SDRE babu who will request 400 forms to be filled in triplicate and attested by TSP consulate in bangalore, kerala. :D TSP's only hope will be a SeS like capitulation by chankian GOI.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - July 07, 2009

Post by chandrabhan »

SSridhar wrote:With people like this author, India doesn't need enemies
But what would be disturbing for most educated self-righteous middle-class Indians, who have always seen India as a peaceful country and Pakistan as source of all trouble, is the revelation that India could have a role in instigating violence inside Pakistan. The joint bilateral statement issued from Sharm-el-Sheikh has reference to Pakistan having information on threats to Balochistan. Pakistan sees it as diplomatic victory. The response in India is that of shock, especially from the hawks. But Prime Minister Manmohan Singh has displayed rare courage and insight in saying that he is willing to discuss any issue with Pakistan. He has also encouraged Pakistan to take action against perpetrators of 26/11terror attacks in Mumbai without linking it to resumption of composite dialogue. As a leader of the senior (in terms of experience with democracy) and bigger nation only he could have been expected to be magnanimous. And he has .....

Dr Sandeep Pandey, social activist and Ramon Magsaysay Award winner, has just returned from a week long trip to Pakistan.
I had been actively involved in a group that was fighting for the release of Dr Binayak Sen for the past year or so. Now finally when he was released we all met down to decide what to do with the group 'Free binayak Sen' once he out. Mr pandey also attended that meeting as an invitee along with Dr Binayak(he is a gentleman to the core). People proposed atrocities against minorities as one of the points on the agenda. I said let's define what is minority? For me the only Minorities in the country are..
  • Jains
    Buddhists
    Sikhs in terms of religion
It does not matter if they are all Indic/vedantic religions or sects. For me they are the only minority and it suits these chatterati class to dub them minority when it suits them.
There was huge hue and cry and the Mr pandey proposed we shd take atrocities against Muslims as the focal point of the group along with resumption of peace talks with pakistan to assuage the feelings of Indian muslims. A heated debate ensued and when i refused to accept 14% of population as minority and putting Indian muslims in the frame of peace talks with Pukis, I was awarded being an RSS cohort, spy. I laughed and said it was an honour to be a part of a nationalistic viewpoint though I differ on few things. Anyway that is not the topic of discussion here.
There are few points i fail to understand and they are ..
1. What is the role these peaceniks play in this whole game?
2. I had been funding this group with some monies for the fight for 'right to dissent' however what is the benefit these idiots like Pandey get out of the nonsense talk of India being aggressor? Does the lure of western awards become so big?
3. Who wants to fight in the end unnecessarily except the US. even they have their national interest on mind.

The discussions were bizzarre in that group. It ranged from poor pakistanis facing the scourge of terrorism to displacement. Even kashmir, I got the feeling that I am sitting in an alien country and facing the barrage after hurting their feelings and finally I was dubbed as a muslim baiter as the deabte went on to Suzanne roy's article in 'Dawn' and 'Indian occupation forces' commiting atrocities. I challenged the group including Arundhati to protest in Tibet in front of Potala palace and tell the Chinese to get out, do the same in her beloved Pukiland to get out of balochistan and northern areas along with Pandey and cronies. The debate even went to sati and muslim rule in India and ended in heated arguments over my point of economic mess muslims rulers brought to India wherein GDP of India crashed from more than 32-33% to almost 20% and rest was messed up by Anglo saxons ... I just laughed aloud later when people said it was a diatribe against the peaceful muslim rule in India.
Last edited by chandrabhan on 01 Aug 2009 13:05, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - July 07, 2009

Post by Dilbu »

Delay in India talks to help terrorists: PM
ISLAMABAD: Prime Minister Yousuf Raza Gilani said on Friday that any delay in resumption of Pakistan-India composite dialogue would benefit only terrorists and relations between the two countries could be improved only through talks. :roll:

Talking to journalists after inaugurating the Islamabad Stock Exchange Towers, the prime minister said the role of politicians was to build bridges and not to erect walls.

Mr Gilani, who was answering questions about his recent meeting with Indian Prime Minister Manmohan Singh, said Pakistan was looking forward to sharing information with India on the Balochistan issue.

‘The issue was discussed with Dr Manmohan Singh. We will provide information about Balochistan once the dialogue starts,’ he said.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - July 07, 2009

Post by Dilbu »

It seems the lamp post in pindi will have to wait a bit longer.
Saudi political asylum for Musharraf possible
ISLAMABAD: Talking to journalists at the Comstech’s secretariat, the Ambassador of Saudi Arabia Abdul Aziz bin Ibrahim Al Ghadeer said in reply to a question that Saudi Arabia would consider giving political asylum to former president General (retd) Pervez Musharraf if he made a request.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - July 07, 2009

Post by sanjaychoudhry »

People like Sandeep Pandey (of Asha fame), C. Rajmohan (of Singapore fame), Pankaj Mishra (of Butter Chicken fame), etc. are all American parrots wearing Yankee medals around their necks. They are told to squack at the appropriate time even as Indian news-traders ("south Asian" types) with American funding are ordered to give their tripe good coverage.

How do you think these people keep appearing in Rediff, Indian Express, etc. regularly? These "award intellectuals" are nothing without Anglo-Saxon props. It is a traitorous class of Indians, the "Roy Bahadurs" of modern India.
Last edited by sanjaychoudhry on 01 Aug 2009 13:12, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - July 07, 2009

Post by SSridhar »

We don't want to go to India
Many years ago I said to our younger generation how nice it would be if the two countries had cordial relations, so that like any other neighbouring countries we could take a train from Lahore to Calcutta or Madras, and they could go across Peshawar and Kabul. With one voice, each one said: "I don't want to go to India!"
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - July 07, 2009

Post by shravan »

Everything missing from IDPs’ dismantled homes

ISLAMABAD: It is like out of the frying pan into the fire situation for the internally displaced persons (IDPs) of Swat and Dir as their houses have been almost dismantled and belongings have disappeared mysteriously.

Many of those who have returned to their homes after the operation complain that their belongings had disappeared :cry: . A doctor from a well off family of Swat while talking to this correspondent said that his house was located on the main road leading to Mingora city and after the operation when he returned he found that jewellery, expensive carpets, imported furniture, licensed weapons and other household items were missing :(( . The doctor lamented that the missing items were worth over five million rupees. :((

“I was surprised when I entered my house; everything was missing and there were only walls and broken doors,” said the doctor adding: “My bread and butter is associated with Swat as I practice in Mingora but now it seems that life has been made tough on me.” He said that he was surprised to see that his house was swept in such a way that not a single room was left and each and every nook and corner was searched and all costly items were stolen, including shoes and crockery :rotfl: .

The doctor said that all those people who were living in the IDP camps were far better than those returning as there was nothing left in Swat houses except disgrace and hunger. When asked who has stolen his goods, the doctor only said, “God knows better.”

He added: “This is not the case with me only as my all relatives have empty houses and broken doors and wonder who has done so and where have their household items gone?” Another government servant from Swat, requesting anonymity, said that the IDPs who had returned to their homes were alien in their towns as their houses had been demolished and costly items stolen.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - July 07, 2009

Post by derkonig »

^^^^
Somebody needs to check the housekeeping at GHQ, Pindi.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - July 07, 2009

Post by shiv »

derkonig wrote:^^^^
Somebody needs to check the housekeeping at GHQ, Pindi.

Or it could be an insurance scam by the Paki doc.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - July 07, 2009

Post by Dilbu »

Progress on Kashmir not at 'desired pace': Pak
Pakistan has said that progress on resolving the Kashmir issue with India has not been at the "desired pace" even though the two countries have initiated confidence-building measures.
"There have been confidence building measures on the Kashmir issue, but unfortunately, things have not moved at the desired pace," {On BRF we call it chai-biskoot} :lol:
Pakistan's Additional Foreign Secretary Asia-Pacific, Masood Khalid, told a group of visiting Sri Lankan Journalists in Islamabad.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - July 07, 2009

Post by arun »

The martial spirit of Pakistan’s security forces on display :eek: :
Militants kidnap 10 FC men in NWA

Friday, July 31, 2009

By Mushtaq Yusufzai & Malik Mumtaz Khan

PESHAWAR/MIRAMSHAH: Dozens of Taliban militants attacked the British-era Girdi Rogha Fort on the Esha-Razmak Road in North Waziristan Agency on Tuesday night and kidnapped 10 soldiers.

Officials said the Taliban militants affiliated with commander Hafiz Gul Bahadur, after hours of fighting, kidnapped 10 personnel of the Shawal Rifles, a wing of the paramilitary Frontier Corps (FC).

Ahmadullah Ahmadi, a spokesman for North Waziristan Taliban commander Hafiz Gul Bahadur, however claimed that their fighters had kidnapped 20 soldiers.The Pakistan Army spokesman and ISPR Director General Maj Gen Athar Abbas denied the reports.

“That is not correct. Had anything happened, I would have the knowledge,” he added.Official sources told The News that dozens of Taliban militants attacked the historic fort with heavy weapons, including rocket-propelled grenades and AK-47 assault rifles. ……………..

The News
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - July 07, 2009

Post by Vivek_A »

OTOH, jihad outsourcing is booming

ANALYSIS: Gulf excess and Pakistani slaves —Rafia Zakaria
“We need slaves to build monuments,” says an Iraqi engineer living in Abu Dhabi to a reporter from the Guardian. In the published report he goes to add that he would never use the metro if it wasn’t segregated since “we would never sit next to Pakistanis and Indians because of their smell”.

The dismal condition of Pakistani labourers in the Gulf States is well known and the above statements are merely reflections of the deep-seeded and overtly racist attitudes of Arabs in the Gulf and otherwise towards Pakistanis.

The same Guardian report also details how Pakistani slave labourers work up to eighteen hours a day and often live twenty to a room without any ventilation and with only a single bathroom for several hundred people. Several do not see their families for four to ten year periods, unable to afford the airfare home and many die on the job.

Without any insurance scheme families are often not notified of deaths for months and the only compensation available to them is through an underground system through which other workers donate thirty dirham each which is then collected and donated. The strictly segregated society means that the rich Arabs never come across the lowly Pakistani workers who build their roads, clean their floors and drive their cars.

But in recent years, the oil-rich barons of the Gulf have found a new use for slave labour that goes beyond cleaning bathrooms and picking trash off the streets of Dubai. A recent statement issued by Special Envoy Richard Holbrooke in Brussels revealed that the Taliban are being funded by individuals from the Gulf States. Secretary Holbrooke said: “The Taliban receive more funding from the Gulf States than they do from the narcotics trade”.

As has been reported by several Pakistani newspapers, this means that the sources of foreign funding for the Taliban are greater than the approximate USD100 million they receive from the narcotics trade based on poppy cultivation inside Afghanistan.

While Holbrooke was careful to note that the money is not coming from governments but rather from individuals, his statement, based on credible reports tracing wire transfers from the region, illustrates a new use that rich Gulf Arabs have found for expendable Pakistani lives.

Similar to the onerous burden of cleaning one’s own bathrooms, or drilling one’s own oil or building one’s own monuments, the task of fighting one’s own holy war has proven to be far too burdensome for Arabs intoxicated with the seemingly never-ending largesse of a resource-fuelled economy. Smelly Pakistanis, the Arabs have discovered, are not only good enough to build crass monuments to consumerism but also to fight misguided holy wars that destroy nations and eviscerate thousands of innocent lives.


Holbrooke’s statement is not the only basis for believing that the Taliban are receiving support from the Gulf States. In May of this year, the United Nations sent out an international appeal for aid for the nearly 2 million people displaced by the fighting in the tribal areas and the NWFP. While the US has pledged USD320 million for the IDPs and the EU has pledged up to USD121 million, no significant pledges have been made from the Gulf States.

This strange dichotomy in which our supposed Muslim brethren have turned their back on the suffering of the people of Swat, Buner and Dir makes far more sense in light of new information that illustrates that in picking sides, rich sheikhs from the Gulf have chosen to place their bets with the Taliban rather than with the Pakistani soldiers fighting them.

Pakistanis themselves, mired in denial and ever-ready to engage in the pantomime of pretending to be Arab, are inured to this reality of Arab racism. Easily appeased with the promise of Gulf jobs when their own country is in shambles they consider any paltry thankless employment, even if it denies them basic human rights, a godsend.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - July 07, 2009

Post by AjayKK »

Abdul Hamid Khan's interview was shown on India TV news. He gave details about the high number of Chinese personnel in these areas.

Balawaristan National Front chairman asks India protect the interest of Balawaristan
2009-07-31 13:30:00

Balawaristan National Front (BNF) chairman, Abdul Hamid Khan has said that India should involve the people of Gilgit Balistan, Chitral and Shhenaki Kohistan regions in the peace dialogue process of Kashmir.

Talking to reporters here on Thursday, Khan said, " A dialogue on Kashmir between India and Pakistan should not ignore the strategic importance of Balwaristan".

"India should not ignore Gilgit Baltistan which combining Chitral comprises an area of 100,000 square kilometres. Whenever there is a dialogue regarding Kashmir, India should include people of Gilgit Baltistan," he added.

He also expressed concern at the recent construction of 16 airstrips along the Karakorum Highway (KKH) that links Pakistan with China.

"We want to live as an independent country. Our independent country will be peaceful for Pakistan as well as India and also will be good for China because our area wouldn't be used for terrorism. Border of India will become safe and it will provide India an approach to Central Asia and China. We want India to request China to stop the process of leasing our hills...lands, construction of airstrips, railway lines which it has started by deploying its forces," he said.

In Pakistan administered Kashmir, the BNF is trying to get the states of a separate nation, Balawaristan comprising Gilgit Baltistan, Chitral and Shhenaki Kohistan regions.

Although the group is seeking independence from Pakistan rule, it believes that it is the duty of India to protect the interest of Balawaristan since India considers the entire Kashmir including Pakistan administered Kashmir as Indian territory.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - July 07, 2009

Post by Lalmohan »

Vivek - quite recently, I was in a taxi with a pakistani driver in an un-named gulf sheikhdom. we got talking, he's an ordinary abdul trying to make a living. soon he started on how the arabs screw them over day in and day out and how miserable life is for guys like him, trapped in the gulf unable to return. (Its the same for our mallu brothers too). he eventually came out with the classic line... 'the only thing good about these fokkers is that they can speak arabic'

now that tells you something about how the gulf a-rabs are, and also a lot about what pakis aspire to be, and the awful cognitive dissonance inbetween
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - July 07, 2009

Post by shravan »

IDPs from Buner say Sindh govt extended them no relief

PESHAWAR: The 24 internally displaced families from Buner district, who arrived in Karachi three months back, have slammed the lukewarm response of the Sindh government.
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However at the time of departure for their hometowns, the IDPs were paid Rs500 instead of Rs25,000, from an office in the Quaidabad area, Karachi.
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The IDPs identified as Rahmatullah, Syed Sharif Ali and Khaista Jamal said the affected persons from Malakand and Bajaur were even denied registration in Sindh. They said the Sindh government claimed that 50,000 IDPs had reached the province while the exact number was not more than 16,000.

-------
How is Pakistan Surviving ?
Even our leaders are not that corrupt.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - July 07, 2009

Post by shravan »

Taliban chief into talks with Pakistan

Taliban chief Baitullah Mehsud, whose grim rule in Pakistan's tribal district of South Waziristan is marked by suicide bombings and throat-slitting, has contacted the government through mediators for peace talks, official and tribal sources say.

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Army spokesman Major General Athar Abbas rules out a dialogue with Mehsud but a senior government official privy to the development said the government had "told those who are negotiating with Baitullah what it wants".

"If he accepts our demands, well, it's good, otherwise we have other options," said the official, who requested anonymity.

The official claimed the main reason for Mehsud's plea for talks was the squeeze security forces have put on him.

Military and paramilitary troops have blocked four main roads and dozens of muddy tracks running through small villages to cut off his supply lines from the rest of the country.
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"Sometimes after day-long bombardment we manage to kill even less than half a dozen insurgents," said a senior military commander who oversees the actions in South Waziristan from Dera Ismail Khan.

A publicly acknowledged peace deal or a secret understanding with Mehsud is going to raise eyebrows in Washington, which wants Pakistan to simultaneously press the Taliban on its side of the border as its forces fight them in Afghanistan.

But local analysts say that despite US concerns Pakistan would mainly focus on Swat and nearby areas where hundreds of schools and businesses destroyed by fighting still remain to be rebuilt. For that matter, keeping Mehsud silent in Pakistan for the moment would be helpful.

"We have our plate full, so don't expect that we would be taking on everything. It is not our responsibility, and we should first ensure our own security," said Talat Masood, a retired general and leading defence analyst.

:|
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - July 07, 2009

Post by kenop »

While it is not time to produce the No. 3, there is progress to report
In a major catch, Pakistani authorities on Saturday nabbed a top militant suspected of beheading the Wall Street Journal reporter Daniel Pearl in 2002.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - July 07, 2009

Post by sanjaykumar »

Anybody have a link to the Guardian piece-although not a paragon of unbiased reporting, I love the Guardian.

This treatment should be contrasted by Muslim treatment in India and the West. Every kid in the subcontinent must memorize these lines along with the Koran. The master race where the martial Paki is fit for cleaning toilets and digging holes while Arabs screw their imported Russian whores.

Acch thoo.
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