Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): May 8, 2011

saip · Post by **saip** » 22 May 2011 21:34

Sorry, this happened FIFTY Years ago.

Raghavendra, Please edit your post. I deleted mine once I realized the mistake.

Look on the right side of this page.
http://epaper.dawn.com/

Click on Page 08 link

Varoon Shekhar · Post by **Varoon Shekhar** » 22 May 2011 21:59

"It's for them to decide whom to pitch their tent with. The choices are:

1. Secular, Pluralist, Democratic value systems: India (Dharmic Bloc) +
2. Totalitarian, Authoritarian and Militaristic China + NK+ Pakistan (Adharmic Bloc)+"

Beautifully said, Harbans. When there is talk of containing China, or containing India, the question must be immediately asked: What is it that is being contained, when you are containing China? And what are you trying to contain, when containing India?

If you are containing militarism, dictatorship, totalitarianism, Islamism, terrorism and crass ethno-centrism, that policy/approach is not only very defensible, it is necessary, and it is certainly ethical.

Containing democracy, pluralism, secularism, tolerance, openness, integration and multi-polarity is totally indefensible,unethical and even from a coldly practical standpoint, completely unnecessary.

Varoon Shekhar · Post by **Varoon Shekhar** » 22 May 2011 22:03

"A non paranoid stable Pakistan is not possible to exist"

An intelligent, self respecting, secular, plural, rational Pakistan would mean the end of Pakistan, and that's the beauty of it.

Varoon Shekhar · Post by **Varoon Shekhar** » 22 May 2011 22:05

I should add, that if in India, you are trying to contain corruption, casteism, messiness, disorderliness and inequality in general, you are doing a good thing, that will help India.

harbans · Post by **harbans** » 22 May 2011 22:16

When there is talk of containing China, or containing India, the question must be immediately asked: What is it that is being contained, when you are containing China? And what are you trying to contain, when containing India?

If you are containing militarism, dictatorship, totalitarianism, Islamism, terrorism and crass ethno-centrism, that policy/approach is not only very defensible, it is necessary, and it is certainly ethical.

Containing democracy, pluralism, secularism, tolerance, openness, integration and multi-polarity is totally indefensible,unethical and even from a coldly practical standpoint, completely unnecessary.

Varoon Ji and you have put it even better! This is exactly where the 'real politik' Western and Strategic 'experts' fail. When experts like Christine Fair, Uneven, or TS write this is what they lack in exposing. India should now be drumming this theme up a notch or two.

shravan · Post by **shravan** » 22 May 2011 22:46

Dawn News reports up to 5 blasts heard at PAF's Faisal airbase in Karachi. Firing still going on.

Raghavendra · Post by **Raghavendra** » 22 May 2011 22:49

A_Gupta wrote:From the very same Obama interview referenced above:
http://www.modernghana.com/newsp/330036 ... -on-b.html

Andrew Marr:
Our Prime Minister, David Cameron, said recently that the problem was that Pakistan was looking both ways on terrorism. He got into a little bit of trouble for it, but he was right, wasn't he?

PRESIDENT OBAMA:
Well, I think what Prime Minister Cameron understands, as I understand, is that Pakistan has been very obsessed with India. They see that as their existential threat. I think that's a mistake. Part of what we're trying to do is to talk to them about how they can reorient their strategy so that they understand that the biggest threat to Pakistan and its stability is homegrown. And that if we don't go after these networks that are willing to blow up police stations, blow up crowds of people, assassinate Pakistani elected officials with impunity, if they don't get a handle on that then they're going to see a significant destabilization of the country.

Strategic policy is set by pakistan army, the book 'The Quranic Concept of War' by Pakistani Brigadier S. K. Malik reveals the strategic policy of pakistan army, fight wars by all means against the kuffar until they have been vanquished and converted. Maybe Obama and his policy advisers should read this book.

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 22 May 2011 22:55

Hari Seldon wrote:Henry Kissassinger talks to Simon Schama (FT)

Some relevant portions to this dhaga...

Kissinger laughs even as he sketches a scenario for an Afghanistan even grimmer than anything anyone has yet imagined, where the presence or absence of al-Qaeda will be the least of its problems. What might happen, he says, is a de facto partition, with India and Russia reconstituting the Northern Alliance, and Pakistan hooked to the Taliban as a backstop against their own encirclement.

Suddenly, spring goes chilly. The prospect looms of a centennial commemoration of the first world war through a half-awake re-enactment. Not Belgium but Sarajevo. Think proxy half-states; the paranoia of encirclement; the bristling arsenals, in this case nuclear; the nervous, beleaguered Pakistanis lashing out in passive-aggressive insecurity. “An India-Pakistan war becomes more probable. Eventually,” says the Doctor, his voice a deep pond of calm. “Therefore some kind of international process in which these issues are discussed might generate enough restraints so that Pakistan does not feel itself encircled by India and doesn’t see a strategic reserve in the Taliban.” He looks directly at me. “Is it possible to do this? I don’t know. But I know if we let matters drift this could become the Balkans of the next world war.”

Don’t say history and Henry Kissinger didn’t warn you.
More pak-appeasement vomit. Why not the obvious course - of bankrupting pak by declaring it a terrorist state and then letting the law take its own course, I wonder.

This is very important.
The HK policy on Afghanistan from 1972 has been consistent and that is the cause of the situation.
This policy of backing Pakistan even when Pakistan is the troublemaker has created this unstable balkan region.
If US had allowed Pakisan to reach a natural state of smaller states who are connected together by economic trade it would have created stability for Afghanistan.

But maybe creating an unstable region may have been the objective of this strategist. Intervention, peace keeping force, WOT, are the tools which they wanted to use in the region.

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 22 May 2011 23:06

harbans wrote:
1. Secular, Pluralist, Democratic value systems: India (Dharmic Bloc) +
2. Totalitarian, Authoritarian and Militaristic China + NK+ Pakistan (Adharmic Bloc)+

It's for the West to decide which bloc it wants to be and invest there. I doubt public opinion in the US will allow it to join bloc 2. The result in the fight between Dharmic and Adharmic is already known to those who have read BG. China's big tussle now is to claim a pie in the Dharmic fold using adharmic means by suppressing Tibet, claiming AP and ultimately occupying Nepal and Bodh Gaya. JMT/

Dont be fooled. They need a large populated state to take on the mantle on the behalf of the "democratic/free" west and who will die for these global values after the region has exploded. They will intervene from outside on behalf of the international community to bring stability.

pgbhat · Post by **pgbhat** » 22 May 2011 23:09

shravan wrote:Dawn News reports up to 5 blasts heard at PAF's Faisal airbase in Karachi. Firing still going on.

After killing Saudi Barbarian diplomutt... now this.

GuruPrabhu · Post by **GuruPrabhu** » 22 May 2011 23:11

def n dumb is talking about a downed P3-C Orion. A full-fledged jihadi attack. Pure vs less pure.

GuruPrabhu · Post by **GuruPrabhu** » 22 May 2011 23:13

Is this the base that handles US supplies for Afghan? It was stated that the Faisal PAF base is coupled with Mehran PN base.

pgbhat · Post by **pgbhat** » 22 May 2011 23:17

GuruPrabhu wrote:def n dumb is talking about a downed P3-C Orion. A full-fledged jihadi attack. Pure vs less pure.

After wikileaks of PAF abduls sabotaging khan "purchased" f-16 inventory.. it is only logical now or so it seems.

Word on twitter that SSGN has joined the action.
Edit: Pic from twitter.. TFWIW.

KrishG · Post by **KrishG** » 22 May 2011 23:26

shravan wrote:Dawn News reports up to 5 blasts heard at PAF's Faisal airbase in Karachi. Firing still going on.

Isn't there a possibility of this place serving as a storage facility for nuclear weapons or was it the other airbase near Karachi ??

VikramS · Post by **VikramS** » 22 May 2011 23:28

It seems all started in the guard room. Inside job likely.

News about a P3C on fire.

Doubt they kept too many nukes in Sindh though.

But yeah, after the sabotage of F-16s, now the P3Cs.. It seems the mujahids do not want to fight with American weapons any more now that the Chinese are giving them 50 JF17s and FC-20s and what not.

GuruPrabhu · Post by **GuruPrabhu** » 22 May 2011 23:28

Orion confirmed shaheed-ized. Some transport aircraft as well. Estimate 10-15 jihadis inside the base firing away. AoA.

Watch Geo-TV live:

http://www.web-vista.com/tv/online_degree/geo.php

Patni · Post by **Patni** » 22 May 2011 23:29

PNS Mehran under attack in Karachi: Interior Minister

KARACHI: PNS Mehran a heavily guarded facility of Pakistan Navy located along Sharea Faisal has come under an armed attack, Federal Interior Minister Rehman Malik said on Sunday.

He said terrorists have launched an armed attack on PNS Mehran.

TV images showed smoke billowing from PNS Mehran.

Earlier, four blasts were reported from the area near PAF base Faisal

GuruPrabhu · Post by **GuruPrabhu** » 22 May 2011 23:30

By the way, Imran Khan staged a "Dharna" there yesterday.

ArmenT · Post by **ArmenT** » 22 May 2011 23:31

For all you trivia hounds, Faisal airbase (or as it was previously known, RAF Airbase, Drigh Road) is also the birthplace of the IAF. It was there that in April 1st 1933 that the No. 1 Squadron of the IAF was established.
http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/IAF/Histo ... pitis.html
Note the address of the place (Drigh Road) in the above link. It is the same address as that of "Faisal Airbase".

shravan · Post by **shravan** » 22 May 2011 23:31

Dawn News reporting that there were Chinese engineers inside PNS Mehran.

GuruPrabhu · Post by **GuruPrabhu** » 22 May 2011 23:35

Excellent timing by Jihadis.

You may think that it is midnight and people are asleep -- but no, TSP is batting in a test against WI, and mango abduls are awake watching this drama unfold

Anujan · Post by **Anujan** » 22 May 2011 23:35

Let me make a prediction. It is not a bunch of yahoos who gave the P3C its 72. This is a bloody mutiny. There has to be inside support. How on earth do you get into a base with so much firepower? Apparently the yahoos blew up another plane.

shravan · Post by **shravan** » 22 May 2011 23:37

^ Geo reporter just said that only the Commandos who have Permission are being allowed inside. Navy Ambulances & other cars are not allowed inside.

GuruPrabhu · Post by **GuruPrabhu** » 22 May 2011 23:38

Anujan wrote:Let me make a prediction. It is not a bunch of yahoos who gave the P3C its 72. This is a bloody mutiny. There has to be inside support. How on earth do you get into a base with so much firepower? Apparently the yahoos blew up another plane.

Speculation is that they entered from the PAF museum. A weak link in the perimeter.

ArmenT · Post by **ArmenT** » 22 May 2011 23:39

For map geeks:
Click for google map of the place

Zooming in shows two aircraft parked on the tarmac (P3C's?). Zooming out a little shows its proximity to PNS Mehran on the left and Jinnah International Airport on the right onlee.

Anujan · Post by **Anujan** » 22 May 2011 23:40

And how did they know to enter from PAF museum? Where to go? How to find the P3C? And they were carrying 72 RPGs, 47 AKs and 50 kilos of grenades each while the sentries were sleeping?

KrishG · Post by **KrishG** » 22 May 2011 23:40

There is also the possibility of TSPA faking this attack to show the world that "they too are victims of terror". After the OBL killing, opinion in the west has generally turned against the TSPA for sheltering OBL. This attack might help TSPA show the west that it is still on their side and that's why it is being targeted by the extremists.

On the sidelines, they might also end-up getting newer P3s for having "lost the aircraft in WoT".

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 22 May 2011 23:41

I think Anujan could be right. Recall the PAF is more jihadized than the other wings. Atta's room mate, dead Air Marshal, Khawaja etc....

Prasad · Post by **Prasad** » 22 May 2011 23:41

Geo tv guy says 4 dead and ten more inside still alive. Assuming only 5 left and 10 is a number pulled out of someones musharaff, that is still a group of ten storming a base on a sunday night. I wonder just what is kept in the base normally. Whats the point in making a raid this big and dangerous to set fire to an orion!

GuruPrabhu · Post by **GuruPrabhu** » 22 May 2011 23:41

Anujan wrote:And how did they know to enter from PAF museum? Where to go? How to find the P3C? And they were carrying 72 RPGs, 47 AKs and 50 kilos of grenades each while the sentries were sleeping?

Yes, I agree that insider support looks likely.

Is it just a few "rogue" non-state actors onlee ...

Or, is it a "mutiny" level action?

Prasad · Post by **Prasad** » 22 May 2011 23:48

Some musharaff-holes never ever change :

@acorn: Offered without comment. RT @ejazhaider: @BDUTT but i insist; why hit an orion usable only against india

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 22 May 2011 23:50

The P-3C is hit because its US made. So most likely its a jihadi mutiny in PN air wing.

Mahendra · Post by **Mahendra** » 22 May 2011 23:53

AOA! Happy staged Diwali

VikramS · Post by **VikramS** » 22 May 2011 23:53

It seems Gili is said to have that attack on PNS resources is an attack on Pakistan. I hope Indian forces are on their highest alert.

Google suggests that the base is not that secure, very close to civilian areas. Further the way the planes are lined up, if they got one they could have gotten every one of them. So if they stopped at one, it could be a false-flag self-goal.
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source= ... 16512&z=17

shyamd · Post by **shyamd** » 22 May 2011 23:54

All to be expected. TTP said openly, TSPA is target number 1, only then Unkil and friends. Mashaallahh!

Pak is getting what was coming. It is paying the price for all the years of funding extremists. OBL killing has resulted in all major taleban factions dropping ceasefire with TSPA. So all are at war with TSPA.

Obama was saying that the US strategy is to make the TSPA understand that it is not India that should be the existential threat, it is the extremists. Doubt its gonna work, but OBL move may have an impact on TSPA psyche.

Dmurphy · Post by **Dmurphy** » 22 May 2011 23:54

ramana wrote:The P-3C is hit because its US made. So most likely its a jihadi mutiny in PN air wing.

One Ejaz Haider on Twitter says they hit P3C Orion because its usable only against India. Now fill in the blanks

Patni · Post by **Patni** » 22 May 2011 23:55

it is quiet strange that the entire area is under blackout!! now even if its a schedule power cut in the area and not a deliberate blackout they would want to restore power so as to ensure the attackers don't sneak away in pitch dark night! strange are the ways in land of pure!

Tamang · Post by **Tamang** » 22 May 2011 23:56

Geo says 4 non-Pakistanis have died, Chinese?

ArmenT · Post by **ArmenT** » 22 May 2011 23:57

So is it Faisal AFB or PNS Mehran or both getting attacked?

Mahendra · Post by **Mahendra** » 22 May 2011 23:58

Tamang wrote:Geo says 4 non-Pakistanis have died, Chinese?

Shias and Ahmediyas perhaps, killed by PA to show the Bakistan is victim of Tellol onlee