Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - Oct 4 2012

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CRamS
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - Oct 4 2012

Post by CRamS »

saravana wrote:While accepting India is worried about Paki nukes, I don't for a moment believe that Pakis are brave. An brown pant army that surrenders 90,000 of its soldiers, is not brave. An army which uses proxies to fight while sitting on its crown is not brave. It's quam is not brave neither is the darkest green variety, which prey only on weakened people.
Then, why doesn't it look like they are not afraid of us? Or the US?
EDIT: My point is if we are afraid of their capability, they must also be afraid of us. Why is that not visible?
They probably are. But they are supremely confident based on Indian actions so far, that there is not a chance in thin air that India will use its power. They also know that Indians by and large are in no mood to fight, they are busy enjoying the dog bones of globalization thrown at them, need I remind you of Tom Friedman's famous observation: "It was General Electric, not General Powell that stopped India from going to war". The also know that India is a deeply divided house with enough 5th columnists starting with the highest levels of power. They also know that India is filled with pseudo secular corrupt WKK cowards. They also know that the "international community" will not disturb the balance of power between India and TSP so long as they (TSP) confine their mischief to India.

Bottom line: its a degree of scale. As we stand today, India is much more afraid of TSP than vice versa, or else we would not be witnessing this slow motion surrender in broad daylight. TSP has many levers to pull and check mate India.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - Oct 4 2012

Post by SSridhar »

Iranian Vice President also cancels Islamabad visit
The only person who seems quite willing to travel to Islamabad is unfortunately our own PM.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - Oct 4 2012

Post by Sagar G »

shiv wrote:I believe that if we set bravado aside and accept that we are afraid, a lot of actions become more easy to explain.
Who is the "we" here ???
anupmisra wrote:His words in erdoo were something like this: "hum to sir pey kafan baandh key paida huyein hein. Tum?"

Tabhi to poora pak shamshaan ki tarf itna tezi se bar raha hain.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - Oct 4 2012

Post by RamaY »

anupmisra wrote:
RamaY wrote:Let us see how successful India will be in committing national suicide with this secularism.
You mean it hasn't already?
It has been trying but all are failed efforts so far leaving it with some scars on its writs, neck, malfunctioning in liver and kidney, an ulcer in the stomach etc.,

But one day the secularism will definitely succeed in its efforts to commit national suicide.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - Oct 4 2012

Post by Chandragupta »

anupmisra wrote: As I wrote many years ago on this forum, a paki friend of mine (yes, I have a few) said to me very frankly: They are willing to die for their cause, are we? His words in erdoo were something like this: "hum to sir pey kafan baandh key paida huyein hein. Tum?"
This TFTA would pee & shit his pants at the first sight of a gun preparing to fire at him. Those 90,000 PoWs also said the same.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - Oct 4 2012

Post by habal »

CRamS wrote:
saravana wrote:While accepting India is worried about Paki nukes, I don't for a moment believe that Pakis are brave. An brown pant army that surrenders 90,000 of its soldiers, is not brave. An army which uses proxies to fight while sitting on its crown is not brave. It's quam is not brave neither is the darkest green variety, which prey only on weakened people.
Then, why doesn't it look like they are not afraid of us? Or the US?
EDIT: My point is if we are afraid of their capability, they must also be afraid of us. Why is that not visible?
They probably are. But they are supremely confident based on Indian actions so far, that there is not a chance in thin air that India will use its power. They also know that Indians by and large are in no mood to fight, they are busy enjoying the dog bones of globalization thrown at them, need I remind you of Tom Friedman's famous observation: "It was General Electric, not General Powell that stopped India from going to war". The also know that India is a deeply divided house with enough 5th columnists starting with the highest levels of power. They also know that India is filled with pseudo secular corrupt WKK cowards. They also know that the "international community" will not disturb the balance of power between India and TSP so long as they (TSP) confine their mischief to India.

Bottom line: its a degree of scale. As we stand today, India is much more afraid of TSP than vice versa, or else we would not be witnessing this slow motion surrender in broad daylight. TSP has many levers to pull and check mate India.
India is no different than what it was 200 years ago. The entire population of fifth columnists, gold diggers & back stabbers was what helped the british enjoy the spoils for more than a *century*.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - Oct 4 2012

Post by RamaY »

anupmisra wrote: As I wrote many years ago on this forum, a paki friend of mine (yes, I have a few) said to me very frankly: They are willing to die for their cause, are we? His words in erdoo were something like this: "hum to sir pey kafan baandh key paida huyein hein. Tum?"
I too have such friends.

I replied saying 'we dont have to make that decision because we would be killing you folks and not dying'.

The next question was then "how come you forefathers in historical India got converted, if they were so strong?" My answer was, "well, my forefathers did not lose, that is why I am a Hindu today. On the other hand, your forefathers were not that brave, hence you are a Pakistani".

Then the discussion took an abrupt turn. "Do you think the muslim ummah will keep quite if you invade and destroy Pakistan? The entire Arap world will come to war with you." My answer was, "the entire Ummah is sitting impotent on the borders of puny Israel and you think they will have a chance to fight India?"

From that point it was all :(( :(( :(( "How could leave half of India to be left to Islamic invaders who raped my forefathers onlee"
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - Oct 4 2012

Post by Sagar G »

Good talk back RamaY saar, that's the spirit we need in most Indians.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - Oct 4 2012

Post by Baikul »

anupmisra wrote:.....As I wrote many years ago on this forum, a paki friend of mine (yes, I have a few) said to me very frankly: They are willing to die for their cause, are we? His words in erdoo were something like this: "hum to sir pey kafan baandh key paida huyein hein. Tum?"
Ji saar, the birth situation of the Pakistani...sir pe kafan...aur g@@nd mein bamboo.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - Oct 4 2012

Post by JE Menon »

>>India is no different than what it was 200 years ago. The entire population of fifth columnists, gold diggers & back stabbers was what helped the british enjoy the spoils for more than a *century*.

Only we on BR are true patriots.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - Oct 4 2012

Post by Virendra »

SSridhar wrote:Iranian Vice President also cancels Islamabad visit
The only person who seems quite willing to travel to Islamabad is unfortunately our own PM.
I think we shouldn't read too much into it.
State heads keep doing it. Putin recently cancelled his Pakistan and India visits one by one.
Iran has been doing double talk on Pakistan.
On one hand they fenced their entire border with Pakistan and are keeping strict vigil, bit like Bangladesh keeps to shoo off their Rohingya bretheren of the ummah.
OTOH they've been parroting that an enemy of Pakistan is no friend of Iran and that Iran would stand by Pakistan.

Bottom line - These things usually aren't what they look like
Only we on BR are true patriots.
you made my day Menon Saar :D

Regards,
Virendra
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - Oct 4 2012

Post by KJo »

RamaY wrote:
From that point it was all :(( :(( :(( "How could leave half of India to be left to Islamic invaders who raped my forefathers onlee"
Wow, you converted a Paki?? Wow, shabaash saar!
I have had many discussions like this but never has a Paki agreed that his grandma was raped by the Arab. They always think their grandpas swept into Hindustan from Arabia on horses bringing the light of Islam with them.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - Oct 4 2012

Post by habal »

JE Menon wrote:>>India is no different than what it was 200 years ago. The entire population of fifth columnists, gold diggers & back stabbers was what helped the british enjoy the spoils for more than a *century*.

Only we on BR are true patriots.
not necessarily.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - Oct 4 2012

Post by arun »

X Posted from the Oppression of Minorities in Pakistan thread.

Green on Green Intra Mohammadden sectarian violence in the Islamic Republic of Pakistan sees adherents of the minority Bohra / Bohri / Dawoodi Bohra sect of Mohammaddenism being predated upon by co-religionists of another sect.

For a country claimed to have been created as a safe haven for members of a religion touted as being “the Religion of Peace”, the Islamic Republic of Pakistan certainly has an extremely high degree of religion inspired murder that pits one sect of Mohammaddenism against another:

Attacks on Bohra community: Violence reaches Hyderabad with 11 dead in 72 hours
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - Oct 4 2012

Post by Atri »

SSridhar wrote:
Atri wrote: All the acts they did to the ancestors of current Pakis, were sort of "birth-pangs". Birth is a painful process, but then it brings one to life. Actions of Gazni, ghori, timur along with countless others of repute OR otherwise, were exactly same.

There is nothing for Pakis to be ashamed of, after all, it is because of fellows like these that Pakis became muslims.
Atri, in that case, they have to withdraw the assertion that Islam did not spread by sword in the Indian subcontinent. They cannot have it both ways.
True Muslims never shied away from this fact which is mentioned in countless medieval resources, over and over again..

Those who do shy away are either kaafir dhimmis OR munafiqs OR doing taqqiya... BTW, taqqiya being primarily a shia concept, all three are wajibul cuttle anyways...
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - Oct 4 2012

Post by RajeshA »

KJoishy wrote:
RamaY wrote:
From that point it was all :(( :(( :(( "How could leave half of India to be left to Islamic invaders who raped my forefathers onlee"
Wow, you converted a Paki?? Wow, shabaash saar!
I have had many discussions like this but never has a Paki agreed that his grandma was raped by the Arab. They always think their grandpas swept into Hindustan from Arabia on horses bringing the light of Islam with them.
KJoishy ji,

there is very little Y-Chromosome DNA Haplogroup K* (M9) present in Pakistan (Sengupta et al. 2006), which would be a sign of Central Asian Turks screwing Proto-Pakistani women. Not just Pakjabis, even Pushtuns hardly have any of it.

The most plausible explanation is simply that Pakis were cowards and they embraced the religion of their oppressors, thinking of themselves as their progeny in order to hide their shame.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - Oct 4 2012

Post by RamaY »

^ RajeshA ji,

That is excellent point. So if I understand correctly the absence of K*/M9 in Paki genes indicates two things

1. They are not progeny of Araps/Turks/Ghazis etc :((
2. They are the coward SDREs who converted at the sight of the sword :(( :((

I would extrapolate that proto-Paki-mards did not even wait till Hindu Armies reach for their protection and converted to Islam. No wonder Hindustan didn't protect them then and didn't want them since then :mrgreen:

Double whammy if you think of it.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - Oct 4 2012

Post by JE Menon »

habal wrote:
JE Menon wrote:>>India is no different than what it was 200 years ago. The entire population of fifth columnists, gold diggers & back stabbers was what helped the british enjoy the spoils for more than a *century*.

Only we on BR are true patriots.
not necessarily.
Indeed, even on BR many are not patriots I suspect.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - Oct 4 2012

Post by RajeshA »

RamaY ji,

I would imagine that in the 97% of non-Elite Pakistanis there is hardly anything from Turks, Arabs or Persians (TAP). In the 3% Elite, Big Landowners and Mullahs, there may be some of the TAP, but there it would mostly be Persian.

I think when the Pushtun turned away from Dharma and embraced Islam, then began the weakening of Indus region.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - Oct 4 2012

Post by shiv »

rkirankr wrote:
He might sign a No war agreement even in case of grave provocations from " Non state actors" agreement.
Unlikely. That agreement is already in place. Maybe this is to say that India will not fight war with Pakistan even if Pakistan attacks? That is more likely.

"India undertakes this pledge not to lift a finger against any Pakistan forces, state backed or non state who may wish to wage war against India"
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - Oct 4 2012

Post by shiv »

Sagar G wrote:
shiv wrote:I believe that if we set bravado aside and accept that we are afraid, a lot of actions become more easy to explain.
Who is the "we" here ???
:D Good question!

The statement should read:

"If we on BRF set bravado aside and accept that India the nation, represented by the political and financial managers are afraid of Pakistan a lot of actions become more easy to explain"

Electric power to Pakistan, visas, cricket, going soft on terror, feeble calls to stop terrorism, shooting Pakistanis with no more than a dossier are all hallmarks of a nation that is afraid of Pakistan. Having said that it is easy to misunderstand this statement of mine and ask if we should not be afraid. No. I think India the nation is right in being afraid of Pakistan. We don't want to get nuked even if we are able to destroy Pakistan in a war.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - Oct 4 2012

Post by Prem »

Chandragupta wrote:
anupmisra wrote: As I wrote many years ago on this forum, a paki friend of mine (yes, I have a few) said to me very frankly: They are willing to die for their cause, are we? His words in erdoo were something like this: "hum to sir pey kafan baandh key paida huyein hein. Tum?"This TFTA would pee & shit his pants at the first sight of a gun preparing to fire at him. Those 90,000 PoWs also said the same.
Tell the bugger, No we will live our life but also kill all the Pakis. INSA-allah, The decision is ours not theirs .Theyhave no record of resistence or victory and inbreeding have caused retardness in their whole society.
Last edited by Prem on 08 Nov 2012 22:08, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - Oct 4 2012

Post by Lalmohan »

ramay - no, the paquis used to be noble, honorable fighting people. for years they resisted the invading hordes, but they succumbed, their defences failed, their shields broke. following their defeat, they were humiliated, corrupted and subverted into the terrible mess that they have become today

they can return once more into the fold of goodness and decency... but they have their work cut out for them
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - Oct 4 2012

Post by Prem »

shiv wrote:
shyamd wrote:Reliably told that MMS planning to go to Pakistan in 2013 to sign a no war agreement.
With Zardari? :D
Agreement between 2 old quarelling ladies and not between our country and that crumbling moth eaten rotton fowl smelling Ganda Anda boiled by Britwits in 47.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - Oct 4 2012

Post by Rony »

But But...

US-Pakistan relationship to change following Obama's reelection?
some Pakistani officials and politicians are quietly hoping that perhaps a cabinet reshuffle and a strengthened mandate, now that reelection pressures are eased, could soften an otherwise tense relationship between the two countries.

And rumors that Sen. John Kerry (D) from Massachusetts could replace Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton has some officials hoping that the former's many-year relationship with Pakistan could pave the way for an even smoother cooperation.
It is of course up to the US president to appoint the Secretary of State. However, if speculations about Kerry become true, then that would be a positive development – and a lot easier. Kerry has many friends in Pakistan. He obviously knows the region, and the ins and outs of our relationship,” says Fawad Chaudhury, a special assistant to Pakistan's prime minister.

Kerry was one of the US senators who sponsored the $1.5 billion annual Kerry-Lugar-Berman aid package to Pakistan, and is known for his relationship with the country. He paid visits to Afghanistan and Pakistan following the Navy Seal raid that killed Osama bin Laden, in an effort to save the rocky partnership.

Some within the security establishment agree. “I think he is more soft and understanding toward Pakistan. There may be a better relationship between the two as a result,” says a security official who preferred to remain unnamed.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - Oct 4 2012

Post by Mihaylo »

Jhujar wrote:
Tell the bugger, No we will live our life but also kill all the Pakis. INSA-allah, The decision is ours not theirs .Theyhave no record of resistence or victory and inbreeding have caused retardness in their whole society.
Hopefully, Islam and Inbreeding will kill them before India does.

-M
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - Oct 4 2012

Post by Sagar G »

shiv wrote:I think India the nation is right in being afraid of Pakistan. We don't want to get nuked even if we are able to destroy Pakistan in a war.
If such is the case then we will never get over the problem named pakistan, and hasn't their always been weapons with great destructive powers which one side had and the other didn't or both had and used that on each other but still we have to see a nation(s) which has been completely wiped out due to its use. Being afraid is not a solution, it's plain cowardice.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - Oct 4 2012

Post by Mihaylo »

Rony wrote:
But But...

US-Pakistan relationship to change following Obama's reelection?
some Pakistani officials and politicians are quietly hoping that perhaps a cabinet reshuffle and a strengthened mandate, now that reelection pressures are eased, could soften an otherwise tense relationship between the two countries.

And rumors that Sen. John Kerry (D) from Massachusetts could replace Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton has some officials hoping that the former's many-year relationship with Pakistan could pave the way for an even smoother cooperation.
It is of course up to the US president to appoint the Secretary of State. However, if speculations about Kerry become true, then that would be a positive development – and a lot easier. Kerry has many friends in Pakistan. He obviously knows the region, and the ins and outs of our relationship,” says Fawad Chaudhury, a special assistant to Pakistan's prime minister.

Kerry was one of the US senators who sponsored the $1.5 billion annual Kerry-Lugar-Berman aid package to Pakistan, and is known for his relationship with the country. He paid visits to Afghanistan and Pakistan following the Navy Seal raid that killed Osama bin Laden, in an effort to save the rocky partnership.

Some within the security establishment agree. “I think he is more soft and understanding toward Pakistan. There may be a better relationship between the two as a result,” says a security official who preferred to remain unnamed.
Honestly, at this point, considering how green coloured MMS glasses are, I'd welcome the appointment of the esteemed and much liked Robin Raphel to the post. It will give a jolt of reality to the behinds of MMS and Co. I'll even posit that any 'India friendly' Secretary of State is bad for India vis-a-vis Pakistan.

-M
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - Oct 4 2012

Post by Prem »

Mihaylo wrote: Hopefully, Islam and Inbreeding will kill them before India does.

-M
The above 2 have killed the soul, mind and humanity ,only body remains full of poisonous ingredients. Pakistan is a HPI= Hamlet Problem for India . Its is not a easy decision to stuff real "Pakistan" in every Pakistani mouth on every occassion for the fear of catching infection. Its no pleasure but job the real passionate Indian to finish the job and release their pain.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - Oct 4 2012

Post by ArmenT »

Brad Goodman wrote:Hopes in Pakistan that Kerry will replace Clinton
What pakis dont realize is. It was a regular good cop bad cop thing. Now if Kerry does take over how different can he be from Hillary
Pakis seem to have short memories. Just a couple of years ago, they were loudly protesting the conditions attached to the Kerry-Lugar bill for receiving aid (which, the Pakistan Daily insisted on spelling as "Carry-Logger bill" :D) and now they think that John Kerry is going to act favorably towards them? Perhaps they haven't made the connection between John Kerry and the so-called "Carry-Logger bill".
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - Oct 4 2012

Post by Abhijit »

There is (IMHO) another angle (not new though) to look at the current GoI's conciliatory gestures to pakis. Every conciliatory gesture from India, helps postpone the next major terror strike by a few days/weeks/months. GoI is fully aware that the jihadi terror spigot is firmly in the control of khakis. GoI is doling out their own equivalent of unkil's baksheesh to pakis at regular or irregular intervals, while conveying to pakis through unkil that there will be an 'aar paar ki ladaai' in case of another 26/11. Whether GoI actually makes good on its threat in case of another terror attack is anybody's guess. But at the very least GoI can turn off the tap of conciliatory gestures.
This state of affairs will continue as long as paki terror does not become an election issue. GoI, even the dynasty, is aware that paki terror will cross the red-line only when Indian public starts demanding action through the ballot box. Until then the cycle of CBM's, cricket etc. followed by a paki terror attack will go on.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - Oct 4 2012

Post by member_23252 »

shyamd wrote:Reliably told that MMS planning to go to Pakistan in 2013 to sign a no war agreement. I don't think he can do it otherwise he would have gone already as Sharm el sheikh agreement delinked terror from bilateral ties.
Look how far Sonia would go to so that we can have our first gay PM.
Indo-Pak No-War Pact:A Visit Manmohan must make
Only a summit between India and Pakistan at the highest political level can lead to a forward movement on Sir Creek, a no-war pact, and the Kashmir formula
The pre-condition Prime Minister Manmohan Singh has been insisting on for a visit to Pakistan — that there must first be “something solid” to achieve — defies the sound rules of diplomacy and is one which the self-consciously powerful impose unwisely. History has vindicated Churchill and proved Truman wrong in rebuffing Stalin’s pleas for a summit. Doables are more clearly determined at the summit level itself and Dr. Singh knows what they are. It seems that he has all but abandoned the agenda on which he so bravely worked during his first stint as Prime Minister.

What message is he seeking now to convey to Pakistan and Kashmiris? Expect “nothing from me?”

IDEAL ATMOSPHERE

Ironically, the atmosphere for a visit to Pakistan was never better and there is something which he alone, at the highest political level, can accomplish — finalise an agreement that settles the Sir Creek dispute. Though it is of limited dimensions, its removal from the agenda of disputes awaiting settlement will provide an impetus to the resolution of the others and improve the atmosphere. Dr. Singh briefed the on-board media while returning from the Non-Aligned summit in Tehran on August 31 that he had told Pakistan President Asif Ali Zardari when they met there that “there must be a genuine feeling that Pakistan is doing all that it could do to deal with terrorism directed at India from Pakistan’s soil. The court trial on the Mumbai massacre is a crucial test of Pakistan’s sincerity.”

But he did not stop at that. He added, significantly, “I also said Sir Creek, which we had talked about during his visit to Ajmer [in April], was doable”. Nor is that all. Credible reports have it that when Pakistan’s Interior Minister Rehman Malik met India’s Home Minister Sushil Kumar Shinde “on the sidelines” of the SAARC Home Ministers’ Conference in the Maldives late last month, he gave a “verbal assurance” of access to Indian investigators to the accused in Pakistan’s prisons and the evidence already collected. This is an area which can be fully explored only in frank talks at a high level.

Sir Creek has been “doable” for at least the past five years. The joint statements issued on May 21, 2011 and June 19, 2012 speak of demarcation of “the land boundary in the Sir Creek area and the delimitation of [the] International Maritime Boundary between Pakistan and India.” A joint survey of Sir Creek was conducted in January and February 2007 which resulted in a joint map of the area. It was authenticated by both sides at the fourth round of talks when copies of the joint map were also exchanged.

BOUNDARY-MARKING AND MAKING

As Dr. B.R. Ambedkar once remarked, boundary-marking is the task of a surveyor; boundary-making is the task of a statesman. Both countries, parties to the Convention on the Law of the Sea, submitted their claims to the extended Continental Shelf with the U.N. Commission on the Limits of the Continental Shelf. Their claims remain “on hold,” pending a settlement. If they continue to disagree on the limits of the EEZ or the Continental Shelf, the matter will have to be decided by arbitration (Articles 279-299 of the Convention). Is that what we want? Why not do the “doable”?

There are two other matters on which India can take the initiative. One is a no-war pact. Both sides came very close to an agreed draft in May 1984. India had sent an aide-memoire to Pakistan on December 24, 1981 setting out the principles. Pakistan sent its draft on January 12, 1982. In Islamabad, formal talks began in May 1982 when Pakistan presented a complete draft of a no-war pact. India followed up by presenting a draft Treaty of Peace, Friendship and Cooperation in August 1982. Indira Gandhi wantonly injected new elements on bases and alliances. Meanwhile, an agreement on a Joint Commission was signed on March 10, 1983.

Talks resumed at Udaipur and Delhi on March 1 and 2, 1984. There was a breakthrough in May 1984 on the two sticking points. The Shimla formulation on bilateralism and the criteria for NAM membership, adopted at Cairo on June 5, 1961, was acceptable to India on bases and alliances. Pakistan did not send its draft on them as it had promised. The Rajiv Gandhi-Zia-ul-Haq summit in Delhi on December 17, 1985 imparted momentum to the dialogue. Talks were held in 1986 but they petered out.

In 2012, bases and alliances have lost their relevance; but Article 8 of the India-Bangladesh Treaty can be adopted. It used a standard formulation for reciprocal pledges not to “enter into or participate in any military alliance directed against the other party” nor “allow the use of its territory for committing any act that may cause military damage to or constitute a threat to the security of the other.”

The no-war pact proposal was formally revived by Nawaz Sharif when he was Prime Minister, in a speech to the U.N. General Assembly on September 22, 1997: “I offer today from this rostrum to open negotiations on a treaty of non-aggression between India and Pakistan”. He renewed it in a television interview on December 11, 2008 after the Mumbai blasts: “We should sign a no-war pact for peace.”

ALMOST THERE

Existing drafts can be meshed together. Not much work is involved. When this writer asked M.K. Rasgotra, India’s Foreign Secretary during the May 1984 talks, how much time it would have required, he raised his index finger and said, “one hour.”

There is another matter on which the summit will help. For some time, the Pakistan People’s Party government treated the Musharraf-Manmohan consensus on the four-point formula on Kashmir as something the cat had brought in. That is no longer the case. Pakistan is prepared to adopt a constructive line on the formula. Last month, Foreign Minister Hina Rabbani Khar clearly indicated to Iftikhar Gilani of DNA that, “we need a relook [on Kashmir], we need to do some homework for that.” In an interview to Barkha Dutt of NDTV around the same time, former PPP Prime Minister Yousuf Raza Gilani specified the subject of the homework: “There had been some formula earlier which was decided between General Musharraf and the Indian government. But there had been some loopholes which we wanted to tighten, aur uspe hum kaam kar rahe the [and we were working on it] when there was a change of government here in Pakistan.”

Tightening the loose ends would be a more accurate description for the exercise. Only a summit can accomplish that. And, that is where the havoc wrought since 2008 must be repaired. As Churchill said in a historic speech to the House of Commons on May 11, 1953, soon after Stalin’s death, “If there is not at the summit of the nations the will to win the greatest prize and the greatest honour ever offered to mankind, doom-laden responsibility will fall upon those who now possess the power to decide. At the worst the participants … would have established more intimate contacts. At the best we might have a generation of peace.”
negi
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - Oct 4 2012

Post by negi »

MMS is talking about no war; such things make sense coming from who is capable of going on war in the first place. :rotfl:
Last edited by negi on 08 Nov 2012 23:45, edited 1 time in total.
shyamd
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - Oct 4 2012

Post by shyamd »

SSridhar wrote: A new government, possibly with a jihadi as the Head of Government, will be there in Pakistan in May 2013. That government would most likely repudiate any draft agreement agreed to between PPP & UPA or impose new conditions. I do not see that happening for another reason too. The UPA itself may disappear here. However, I believe that Siachen may happen in mid-2013 if UPA continues in power.
[/quote]
Lets see what happens. One thing is for certain though, they want to try any way to convince paki mil establishment that India wants peace. The question is what does that involve? They tried and were close with Musharraf.

Problem is resolving the issue of pak and it's attitude via other means involve great risks.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - Oct 4 2012

Post by Mihaylo »

shyamd wrote: Lets see what happens. One thing is for certain though, they want to try any way to convince paki mil establishment that India wants peace. The question is what does that involve? They tried and were close with Musharraf.

Problem is resolving the issue of pak and it's attitude via other means involve great risks.
I suspect, India is in a sadomasochistic relationship with Pakistan. It knows a new terrorist attack is coming and almost subconsciously hopes it happens so that it can strut around the world with a 'moral high ground' and complain for a couple of years all the while knowing that another terrorist attack is coming and so on and so forth...nothing else makes sense to me.

-M
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - Oct 4 2012

Post by RamaY »

Lalmohan wrote:ramay - no, the paquis used to be noble, honorable fighting people. for years they resisted the invading hordes, but they succumbed, their defences failed, their shields broke. following their defeat, they were humiliated, corrupted and subverted into the terrible mess that they have become today

they can return once more into the fold of goodness and decency... but they have their work cut out for them
I am not sure sir. My gut tells me that majority of those brave, noble and honorable fighting people were dead. The remaining are still living as hindus in the most unfriendly society in Pakistan.

They are true brave, noble and honorable Pakistanis, I bow my head to.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - Oct 4 2012

Post by RamaY »

Sagar G wrote:
shiv wrote:I think India the nation is right in being afraid of Pakistan. We don't want to get nuked even if we are able to destroy Pakistan in a war.
If such is the case then we will never get over the problem named pakistan, and hasn't their always been weapons with great destructive powers which one side had and the other didn't or both had and used that on each other but still we have to see a nation(s) which has been completely wiped out due to its use. Being afraid is not a solution, it's plain cowardice.
Small correction.

In such case there is no problem called Pakistan. We can close this thread and go home.

Tomorrow we can open a new thread called "Civilizational Contributions of Islamic Pakistan to Indian Sub-continent". I have some ideas on how they valiantly fought against Brahmin oppression of Untouchable Sudras to put in that thread.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - Oct 4 2012

Post by krisna »

This is not good news for sdres. whatever excellent work we have done to eradicate this polio will be frittered away with opening of visas to these bious apduls.
There should be a strict quarantine till the virus(polio and non polio ones :wink: ) are eradicated from tsp.
It is not easy to eradicate the polio with huge problems we have. Now why commit this harakiri at political level.
hoping against hope tsp again display their famed bakistaniyat and scuttle this. :(
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - Oct 4 2012

Post by nachiket »

About this "no-war" pact that our dear MMS wants to sign. I guess he wants to make sure that after he hangs up his boots in 2014, any new government that takes over loses the option of going to war as a response to yet another paki terrorist attack. How better to do that than sign a no-war pact which any future Indian government would have to adhere to (or use as a convenient excuse as the case may be). Pakis shouldn't have any problems signing any pact because nobody really expects them to stand by it. And as things stand currently they cannot start a conventional war with India without getting their musharraf's handed to them anyway. So it is basically to completely remove our option of responding to a pakistani terror attack with our military.
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