Bharat Rakshak

arun wrote:Following the recent revelation by the New York Times that self-styled “Worlds Leading IT Company” Axact was running a degree certificate granting scam, the Islamic Republic of Pakistan finds a US based pressititute to plug the Islamic Republic of Pakistan’s IT, not of the usual Islamic Terrorism type but rather of the Information Technology type, expertise:

Can young entrepreneurs transform Pakistan into a high-tech powerhouse?

Arunji :

In light of the AXACT scandal ( during my time away on holidays ) and the hyperbolic claims of being the largest IT ( not the Islamic Terrorisim kind ) company , blah, blah , blah , one of the reader's of the said farticle ( Can Young Enterpreneurs.....) has rightly cautioned the PBS public channel to thoroughly verify the tall claims of these Karachi based companies like CREATIVE CHAOS, before giving it undue publicity !

arun wrote:Following the recent revelation by the New York Times that self-styled “Worlds Leading IT Company” Axact was running a degree certificate granting scam, the Islamic Republic of Pakistan finds a US based pressititute to plug the Islamic Republic of Pakistan’s IT, not of the usual Islamic Terrorism type but rather of the Information Technology type, expertise:

Can young entrepreneurs transform Pakistan into a high-tech powerhouse?

If Muslims in 1947 who all schemed at various levels, protested and rioted all over India for Muslims country had actually gone to Pakistan then, probably, things would be much better! However, Pakistan being Pakistan, is full of generation of jihadis over time.

-deleted

http://www.dawn.com/news/1184349/pakist ... ya-muslims

The spokesman said Pakistan strongly believes that peaceful coexistence of all communities in Myanmar— with provision of fundamental rights like citizenship, freedom to practice religion, education and security— is essential to peace, progress and prosperity of the country.

Whither D'Jinnah? I thought muslims of sub continent couldn't co-exist with others.

M1st21rb1t915n will leave hands pregnant in afterlife: Muslim televangelist

Cheers

sudhan wrote:Manohar Parrikar has asserted that he will go to "any extent" to protect India

The def. minister has come out swinging again!

I expect a hurriedly convened crore kammandu conference in pindi for the traditional Shalwar Cr@ppin ceremony..

Finally a clear headed Def min..

He has also given clarification on his statement from couple of days back which generated a bit of controversy.

He did the same in his interview with Karan Thapar too. I am guessing he probably was advised to do so. His interview starts past 15 minute mark.

http://indiatoday.intoday.in/programme/ ... 40391.html

RCase wrote:http://www.dawn.com/news/1184349/pakist ... ya-muslims

The spokesman said Pakistan strongly believes that peaceful coexistence of all communities in Myanmar— with provision of fundamental rights like citizenship, freedom to practice religion, education and security— is essential to peace, progress and prosperity of the country.

Whither D'Jinnah? I thought muslims of sub continent couldn't co-exist with others.

A veiled threat nonetheless.

-M

RCase wrote:http://www.dawn.com/news/1184349/pakist ... ya-muslims

The spokesman said Pakistan strongly believes that peaceful coexistence of all communities in Myanmar— with provision of fundamental rights like citizenship, freedom to practice religion, education and security— is essential to peace, progress and prosperity of the country.

Whither D'Jinnah? I thought muslims of sub continent couldn't co-exist with others.

True, but others have to coexist with Muslims only.

X Posted from the “Pakistani Role In Global Terrorism” thread.

"Pakistan is a haven for numerous Islamist extremist and terrorist groups, and successive Pakistani governments are widely believed to have tolerated and even supported some of these as proxies in Islamabad's historical tensions and conflicts with neighbours"

………………….. Thus sprach US Government entity, Congressional Research Services (CRS) even as the US Government continues to keep the spigot of military aid to the Islamic Republic of Pakistan, much to India’s detriment, open.

PTI via Zee News:

Pakistan 'haven' for several Islamist terror groups: US report

The cited CRS report titled “Pakistan-US Relations: Issues For the 114th Congress” authored by K Alan Kronstadt and dated May 14, 2015 is available on the FAS website:

Clicky

The Islamic Republic of Pakistan forgets its subordinate place in the Mohammadden pecking order and has the temerity to criticize Arab superiors in Egypt for handing the death penalty to their own (Egypt’s) President Morsi .

The Islamic Republic of Pakistan for their temerity in forgetting their place in the Mohammadden pecking order gets a diplomatic protest .

The Islamic Republic of Pakistan must learn that having a smidgen of Arab blood supplemented by that of Horsemen from the steppes of Central Asia is not enough to criticize pure blood Arabs :

Egypt protests Pakistan's criticism of Morsi death sentence

Why is TSP such a terrorist pit? Big baad India. India bears responsibility for TSP's ills. India must have a big heart, India must give TSP Kashmir and whatever else it wants to address TSP's "insecurities". Please don't puke

http://foreignpolicy.com/2015/05/26/pak ... ce-gandhi/

CRamS wrote:Why is TSP such a terrorist pit? Big baad India. India bears responsibility for TSP's ills. India must have a big heart, India must give TSP Kashmir and whatever else it wants to address TSP's "insecurities". Please don't puke

http://foreignpolicy.com/2015/05/26/pak ... ce-gandhi/

Wouldn't piss on that "f@rticle" were it one fire much less puke.

That after 67 years of independence (or rather international dependence) the Pukis are still plodding around searching for reasons for their abysmal state today and the only one they come up with is that Indians have been mean, says everything about their zehniyat.

This is but another in the ceaseless chain of delusionary rants from a country that is able to stomach anything but indifference from India. For a country that viciously and zealously aims to brace itself as "not-India", their sense of self-worth is immeasurably tied to Indian acknowledgement of this "non-India".

Three policemen shot dead in Karachi - DT

Three policemen were shot dead when unidentified armed men opened fire at their van here on Wednesday morning.

According to police sources, the firing incident took place in Bhangoria Goth area of Azizabad where unidentified gunmen attacked a police patrolling mobile van, killing three personnel on the spot. Police said that the cops were asleep at the time of the attack.

From the DT Editorial of today:

The Punjab government signed an agreement with Chinese investors for the Lahore Orange Line Metro Train project during the recent Chinese president’s visit. Its estimated cost is over $ 1.65 billion. The Planning Commission has raised serious objections over the hurried manner in which the agreement was signed without following the proper rules and procedure. Projects of over Rs 300 million must be vetted and approved by the Planning Commission, which in this case has merely been used as a rubber stamp. This pattern of project approval is not new to the Punjab government. The signal-free corridor on Jail Road/Main Gulberg, and the Canal Road project that threatened to destroy the green belt in Lahore, and even the Metro Bus projects are cases in point. These projects are worth billions of dollars and obviously have a serious impact on the province and the country’s straitened finances. All the more reason then for institutions like the Planning Commission to be allowed as per the rules to vet such endeavours on the touchstone of feasibility and priority. Adding to reservations regarding this approach to development, the $ 1.63 billion loan for the Orange Line project carries an exorbitant interest rate of 45 percent. This has raised additional concerns regarding its cost and feasibility, and it is not enough for the Punjab government to shrug off these concerns by arguing that it will be repaying the loan from its own resources and therefore Planning Commission approval is only a formality.

Kashi wrote:

CRamS wrote:Why is TSP such a terrorist pit? Big baad India. India bears responsibility for TSP's ills. India must have a big heart, India must give TSP Kashmir and whatever else it wants to address TSP's "insecurities". Please don't puke

http://foreignpolicy.com/2015/05/26/pak ... ce-gandhi/

Wouldn't piss on that "f@rticle" were it one fire much less puke.

That after 67 years of independence (or rather international dependence) the Pukis are still plodding around searching for reasons for their abysmal state today and the only one they come up with is that Indians have been mean, says everything about their zehniyat.

This is but another in the ceaseless chain of delusionary rants from a country that is able to stomach anything but indifference from India. For a country that viciously and zealously aims to brace itself as "not-India", their sense of self-worth is immeasurably tied to Indian acknowledgement of this "non-India".

we have termites like the BCCI, greedy businessmen, muslim fillum stars, and retired babus and journos who desperately want to get on and ride the endless gravy train which the pakis knowingly put out. all these guys are bought and paid for.

This constant harping on "give us, give us, you are big brother, look after us, etc" is a deep psychological conditioning of the Hindus so that there is no public outcry when the foolish Hindu politicos do indeed let go. The pakis rarely speak in multiple voices and given the multifarious engagements that they have every day with India, this point is hammered home with remarkable consistency, unlike the disparate voices from the Indian side many of whom have fallen hook line and sinker for the paki point of view.

They have dealt with the Hindus for centuries and know their psyche backwards and forwards.

NaMo is new. No one has ever spoken back to them like he has. All of them were "Indian muslims" a few short decades ago. The primal Indian muslim fear of a Hindu resurgence still haunts them in their worst nightmares and this is what makes them desperate for a quick and forceful settlement. Since the Hindus outnumber them many times, their fear is palpable on both sides of the border.

they are trying to discredit NaMo and the BJP using the Indian media itself through the media linkages of italy, vatican and US.

Currently, Modi is too strong for them to take on.

chetak wrote:
they are trying to discredit NaMo and the BJP using the Indian media itself through the media linkages of italy, vatican and US.

Currently, Modi is too strong for them to take on.

ChetakJi, like every issue that is sliced and diced on ModiJi's first year in office (I am sick of the over analysis), its too early to judge ModiJi on TSP. Lets wait and see, and I hope he does not fall prey to everything you point out. But make no mistake, he is under relentless pressure to give in to TSP. I'd wait and watch another several months or more to see if indeed ModiJi is a different can of worms when it comes to dealing with TSP.

Pak asks EU to relax travel restrictions - PTI, ToI

Pakistan has asked the European Union (EU) to relax travel restrictions imposed on it due to the increasing polio cases in the country.

The issue of restrictions came up for discussion on Tuesday during a meeting of a German parliamentary delegation with President Mamnoon Hussain.

Hussain called for relaxing the restrictions and said that international community should be considerate and help Pakistan to work towards eradication of polio virus, Dawn reported.

Hussain told German parliamentarians that Pakistan is committed to eradicating polio.

The president said the main cause of the increase in the number of polio cases in recent years was terrorism because of which many tribal areas in the country were still inaccessible.

Pakistan has asked the 28-member European Union to relax travel restrictions imposed on it, the report said.

"Pakistan is not responsible for the situation, but the elements who caused the spread of terrorism in the region," he said. {Yes, Pakistan is not responsible for anything. The US created the mujahideen and then the Taliban in a secular Pakistan and it has suffered USD 100 Trillion in the last 30 years. The neighbouring small-hearted kuffar Hindus eradicated the polio virus in their country driving it away to take refuge in Pakistan. The Jews, for their part, have been passing misinformation about polio in Pakistan in the Arab countries leading to travel checks by the Ummah brothers too. Alla' Taala has been most Unmerciful.}

He assured the delegation that Pakistan was committed to eradicating the disease and the situation was now improving.

The president also informed the delegation that the government was taking effective measures to curb terrorism, violation of human rights, discrimination against minorities and gender inequality.

Lest we (not those on this forum obviously) forget:

http://pib.nic.in/newsite/erelease.aspx?relid=122060
This is how Pakis do people to people contact. I may be wrong, but I don't recall seeing such commemoration of our martyred soldiers government media in the recent past.

It gives me no joy in saying this, but on a practical note, publicizing these examples of Pakihood may be the only way to fight the pappi-jhappi 'we are all one people' crowd's 'they are our brothers, lets play cricket lest they become suicide bombers'. These people are immune to reasoning, but they may find it difficult to live with shame of being caught in bed with people who murdered our soldiers in cold blood. Any organization, BCCI or any other, who gives any money to a Paki, should be shamed and boycotted. Money is the only language they understand - that's where they should be hit.

Maybe someone with required skills can make a small meme/visual with a few words of powerful text conveying BCCI's attitude - 'We don't care about dead soldiers, only about match fees.'

wadi wrote:Lest we (not those on this forum obviously) forget:

http://pib.nic.in/newsite/erelease.aspx?relid=122060
This is how Pakis do people to people contact. I may be wrong, but I don't recall seeing such commemoration of our martyred soldiers government media in the recent past.

It gives me no joy in saying this, but on a practical note, publicizing these examples of Pakihood may be the only way to fight the pappi-jhappi 'we are all one people' crowd's 'they are our brothers, lets play cricket lest they become suicide bombers'. These people are immune to reasoning, but they may find it difficult to live with shame of being caught in bed with people who murdered our soldiers in cold blood. Any organization, BCCI or any other, who gives any money to a Paki, should be shamed and boycotted. Money is the only language they understand - that's where they should be hit.

Maybe someone with required skills can make a small meme/visual with a few words of powerful text conveying BCCI's attitude - 'We don't care about dead soldiers, only about match fees.'

Here is my own little tribute to Sq Ldr Ajay Ahuja who was brutally killed by Shitistanis after he bailed out from a stricken MiG 21. I was going to make it go live on June 17th but I thought the anniversary of his death would be a good day to upload
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qoGqRiIKXk4

Awesome video DoCJi, and equally awesome narration. Made my day!!!!

shiv wrote: Here is my own little tribute to Sq Ldr Ajay Ahuja who was brutally killed by Shitistanis after he bailed out from a stricken MiG 21. I was going to make it go live on June 17th but I thought the anniversary of his death would be a good day to upload
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qoGqRiIKXk4

Here's another tribute, on Twitter

The Packee betrayal of Saudi Arabia (and all other Sunni Arab Gulf states) shows the real character of the RAPE and TSPA. Their own survival, hold on power and looting of Packeeland is all that really matters for them and not Islam, Islam was always a tool for them to get power (just as communism was/is a tool to gain power for the 'communists' in India, Indian communists and Islamists share many traits). So when it really came down to it, when they had to choose between Chinese support and loyalty with their foremost (mythical) Arab forefather, they dumped the Saudi's/Gulf Arabs. Put differently: Money talks and Islam walks. This is something India has to draw attention to/underline and use to punish the RAPE/TSPA as I am sure that the betrayal did not go down well with the true/orthodox Muslims in Packeeland.

India allocated $500mn to sabotage Economic Corridor: Baloch
Mr Balcho..h Have already stolen 500 Mil From Billion Given to Him By India

ISLAMABAD: Pakistan Muslim League-Nawaz (PLM-N) leader Abdul Qadir Baloch on Wednesday claimed that India had allocated 500 million dollars to sabotage 'Pak-China Economic Corridor'.Speaking in Geo News program "Capital Talk", Federal Minister and PML-N leader Baloch said India is in pain as a result of peace achieved by Pakistan with the help of Operation Zabardast-e-AzL."If India has an army of 1.5 million soldiers then Pakistan also has 0.6 million troops", the federal minister said.He lauded the resolve and valor of Pakistan Army.

Zabardast e aql on full display.

Multatuli wrote:Their own survival, hold on power and looting of Packeeland is all that really matters for them and not Islam, Islam was always a tool for them to get power (just as communism was/is a tool to gain power for the 'communists' in India, Indian communists and Islamists share many traits).

While I take the point, the framing of it this way concedes too much, that there is some abstract, objective Islam (or Communism) out there that is disconnected from and can differ from the practices of the Muslims (or Communists). It draws us infidelators into the game of "what is the true Islam?". It creates an alibi that the consequences of one's beliefs need never be traced back to one's beliefs; all negative consequences are merely that one was not pure enough in one's belief.

My rephrase is simply that "They used Islam for their own survival and to hold on to power and to loot Packeeland".

I request people to read this book By an Indic ex-Muslim M A Khan (PBUH) : http://www.islam-watch.org/books/islami ... lavery.pdf

The takeaway is that Islam is not just a "tool", it is a blueprint of perpetual war that creates a chain reaction that would ultimately consume anyone who wants to use it as a tool. Only an idiot would want to touch Islam, let alone "use it".

The Bakis used it as a tool and got TTP. The west used it as a tool and now have entrenched votebanks in Brishitland and France that are waging war on the state. The older ones vote, the younger ones go join ISIS and slit the non-believers throat.

Your absolutely right. What I meant is that the RAPE/TSPA do not even bother to keep up the burqa of Islam (true Islam as I put it), it's there for everyone to see that they screw everyone, yes, even the Saudi's when it suites them. They (RAPE/TSPA) are opportunists, and their betrayal of Saudi's/Sunni Gulf Arabs can be used to demonstrate this to every Packee Abdul.

Added later:

The division between 'true Muslims' and the apostates/heretics/hypocrites is one that Islam itself makes and something non-Muslims must use to their advantage. Of course, the non-Muslims should *always* keep in mind that both the 'true Muslim' and the 'pretender' or apostate want non-Muslims converted/enslaved or dead.

^^^ Saar, That is not surprising.


It is also not surprising that Bakistan was always sold to the highest bidder since its birth. The first page of STFUP thead has an interview with Djinnah on how he salivates the prospect of Big Bad USSR just being around the corner and how that will make Bakistan very important to Unkil.

We have to note that Bakistan was born out of opportunism, it is in the blood of RAPES who run it. Their father, Djinnah was the ultimate opportunist. He and the Brishits used gullible folks like Alama OneBall to believe the snake oil that Muslims cannot survive among Hindus in an egalitarian environment.


The unintended consequence of all this was that people TRULY believed in the lies peddled and strived for finding the purest form of Islam that there ever was. Most of it has been driven by the large sunni underclass. So in effect, while the top of Bakistan (Shia/Ismailis/Ahmedis etc) are slaves to opportunity, the lower classes (Sunnis) are slaves to Islam. Without a doubt, both of them hate Hindus and everything that India stands for.

What you said has already happened. We are seeing its after-effect. Which is the Sunni underclass calling the bluff of the RAPES. This kind of class warfare has existed since the beginning of Islam, it is always tribal and it is always between tribes. So in effect, Islamic tribal warfare has spread from Barbaria to Bakistan. Bakistanis should be proud. They are closer to Barbaria than they ever have been.

Glad Tiding!! Oberation Jai Krishna is now Reblaced with Plan Ram Ram for Pakistan's Ram Naam Sat Hai .Ram Hi Tho Asli Haq Hai .

Lokesh Sahab, we here in BRF know that Packeeland was created out of pure opportunism by the Shia/Ismailis/Ahmedis etc., but the Sunni Abdul believes it was to safeguard Islam and that Packeeland is a bulwark of Islam against Hindu India! And yes, the history of Packeeland has been one of betrayal, exploitation and genocide (just ask the Bangladeshi's). But what is special about this latest betrayal is that the RAPE's/TSPA have now done it to the Saudi's, the citadel of Islam, the guardians of true/orthodox Islam!

We have to constantly rub this in. And for this purpose, we have to use the Islamic categories of true believer versus hypocrite/apostate.

In fact, I would go so far as to say that Packeeland lost all it's wars against India because the Packee army and elite are dominated by hypocrites/apostates. How can Allah be with Packeeland if they are so impure? All the problems in Packeeland are because of the impurity (hypocrisy/apostasy) of the army generals and the elite (politic, economic, intellectual). This case can be made and it must be made by India. We 'owe' it to the Sunni Abdul to point out how un-Islamic the army generals and elite are in Packeeland.

Multatuli wrote:The Packee betrayal of Saudi Arabia (and all other Sunni Arab Gulf states) shows the real character of the RAPE and TSPA. Their own survival, hold on power and looting of Packeeland is all that really matters for them and not Islam, Islam was always a tool for them to get power (just as communism was/is a tool to gain power for the 'communists' in India, Indian communists and Islamists share many traits). So when it really came down to it, when they had to choose between Chinese support and loyalty with their foremost (mythical) Arab forefather, they dumped the Saudi's/Gulf Arabs. Put differently: Money talks and Islam walks. This is something India has to draw attention to/underline and use to punish the RAPE/TSPA as I am sure that the betrayal did not go down well with the true/orthodox Muslims in Packeeland.

You are assuming that Islam forebades treachery, betrayal & Taquiya (lying).

Pakistan is doing 400% islamic thing and in this case Saudis aren't being 400% islamic. If they don't ban Pakistanis from Saudi Arabia and Islam when Pakistan declines to deliver nukes, then we can be 400% sure that Saudi are 400% Munafiqs.

CRamS wrote:ChetakJi, like every issue that is sliced and diced on ModiJi's first year in office (I am sick of the over analysis), its too early to judge ModiJi on TSP. Lets wait and see, and I hope he does not fall prey to everything you point out. But make no mistake, he is under relentless pressure to give in to TSP. I'd wait and watch another several months or more to see if indeed ModiJi is a different can of worms when it comes to dealing with TSP.

What sort of events will help you arrive to a definite conclusion on whether "Modi is a different can of worms when it comes to dealing with TSP?"

Watch these MOFOs
https://www.facebook.com/14389611097001 ... 598877127/

Multatuli wrote:The Packee betrayal of Saudi Arabia (and all other Sunni Arab Gulf states) shows the real character of the RAPE and TSPA.

They demonstrated two things in the Suez Canal crisis of 1956. One, the Paki talk of islamic brotherhood is humbug and opportunistic. Two, the only aim of Pakistan was India and would therefore go to any extent.

India's 'prodigal son', 'long-lost brother' approach and its failure to appreciate the true intention of Pakistan in this early event has been a very troubling root cause for our problems with Pakistan. Even today, unfortunately, there is no understanding of the real intention of Pakistan.

Pakistan has to be destroyed and there is simply, simply no other option.

Kashi wrote: What sort of events will help you arrive to a definite conclusion on whether "Modi is a different can of worms when it comes to dealing with TSP?"

This no war, no p!ss situation we have now must continue. In the past, we have been in this situation, and India suddenly breaks the lock jam unilaterally. So if and when ModiJi resumes talks, I'd like to see what TSP has delivered.

Multatuli wrote:The Packee betrayal of Saudi Arabia (and all other Sunni Arab Gulf states) shows the real character of the RAPE and TSPA. Their own survival, hold on power and looting of Packeeland is all that really matters for them and not Islam,

Sorry. Wrong. This is a normal Arab trait that has been imported into Islam - i.e me against you; you and me against our cousin; you, me and cousin against our neighbour; all of us against the next village. It is perfectly OK for brothers to plot against father and kill him or one brother to kill another. All will be well if some Islamic excuse is given.

Such behaviour is normal and to be expected. I don't think the Saudis have the honour and self respect required to treat Pakistan's behaviour as "betrayal". In Islam this is allowed. The two Sharifs simply have to say that Islamic atonement prayer (wotsit - some kalima-shalima something?) a couple of times and Soothi Barbaria and Shitistan will be thick as thieves.

I am amazed that people actually think that an Arab accusing Pakistan of "ditching" them is doing anything more than letting off a little fart to make himself more comfortable - hardly an arrow designed to hurt. Arab nations have pride but no honour. Pakistan is exactly the same - "a ditto copy" of Arab crap.

SSridhar wrote:
India's 'prodigal son', 'long-lost brother' approach and its failure to appreciate the true intention of Pakistan in this early event has been a very troubling root cause for our problems with Pakistan. Even today, unfortunately, there is no understanding of the real intention of Pakistan.

Pakistan has to be destroyed and there is simply, simply no other option.

There is something here that makes me digress into philosophy. Indians really do show a Hindu mode of behaviour where we tend to excuse the other (the Pakistani) and let him off saying that in the long term he will understand his folly and the world requires friendship and brotherhood. The Hindu mind is wiling to set aside the identity and name of God in favour of friendship and brotherhood and believes that everyone will willingly see the wisdom of this. This is a Hindu blind spot.

What the Hindu mind does not understand is that under the Islamic scheme of things Pakistanis (and Arabs for that matter) also believe in friendship and brotherhood - but you have to be Muslim first - at least that was true in 1947. Now you have to be Sunni Muslim. In fact you have to be Sunni Muslim and belong to some sub-group. Since the alternative is violence and killing all in the name of Islam (as we see in Pakistan) - little wonder that there are so many fakes and pretenders and the fakes and pretenders typically save their own asses by supporting the most violent and well armed guys - be it the army, TTP, ISIS or as in the case of Pakistani lawyers - Qadri.

The problem with Hindus in particular and Indians in general is that we are afraid to point at Pakistan and Arab countries and say that Islamic people in Islamic countries are showing despicable, bigoted, murderous behaviour in the name of Islam. We feel that if we say this (even though it is perfectly true) India's social fabric will break apart and Indian Muslims will go on the rampage - and so it is necessary for us to lie to ourselves that Pakistanis are true vasudeva kutumbakam-ologists who are temporarily going apeshit and will become OK with some love. That is why we do daily poojas to "secularism" which means avoid telling the truth if it hurts Muslim sentiment. It is always OK to point at Hindus and say what turds they are. This was exactly the line followed by the last Congress government and it remains to be seen if the Modi government will also fall into this rut. If it does it means that India is under greater pressure to accept this stupidity than we on BRF might imagine.

We need to get out of this idiotic mindset. there is a huge diference between satyameva jayate and this idiocy.