Bharat Rakshak

The Night Manager featuring Hugh Laurie and Tom Hiddlestone portrays very vividly how big a pox on this earth Britain truly is.

panduranghari wrote:

ashish raval wrote: Lol. Guess you should publish the findings in a journal as this is first time i found someone making such remark. This applies to US too then if I sm allowed to take 6 developed cities out of the country as it has 6x more population, and then compare what is left down in Us too..give me California, Texas, Florida, newyork, penn and Illinois and your left with sizes of Greek economy on their own in population and per capita and almost half the GDP.

Ashish ji,

Tower Hamlets in heart of London is deprived. Cornwall is poorer than parts of Romania, Hull/Middlesbrough is a shit hole, Liverpool and its population is could give American trailer trash a run for money, Deepest Kent -Hastings is very poor. Glasgow- well half of it still lives in 1960's. Outside Cardiff,Newport, Swansea, Llandudno there is not much in Wales. And now steel factories close down, there is nothing more left to exploit. Birmingham is just waiting for a civil war riot. Visit the Hindu temple in Birmingham and wear a red tilak and walk in Bullring shopping centre....see the anger in the eyes.

Truly Blighty is fcuked. Either you don't wish to see it or it may be cognitive dissonance.

Biggest UK export is services. Services can't keep you rich.

Sir, there are good and bad parts in every nation. That does not give you the whole picture if you selectively take 5 places out of 500 and extrapolate argument to whole nation. I know Bangladeshis who have retired just by selling their properties they brought in tower Hamlets for couple of thousand pounds and selling them for more than half a million in this decade and buying houses for less than half of that in North. One can hardly afford a decent new build flat - 2 bed for half a million in your deprived London borough.


I particularly like your last sentence because it does not make much sense. There is no empirical evidence that manufacturing nations are rich versus services. Infect US after 2010 practically added more than 80 percent jobs in services sector and hardly much in manufacturing sector at all. It has now services at 80 percent of economy and the only other country in that spot with high services contribution is UK.

Why do you think that if I write few lines of code for which someone from japan is willing to pay 1 billion and generating cashflow of 50 million with 500 people employed is bad compared to having a toy factory with dangerous polluting chemicals at you doorstep and waterways generating 50 million cashflow and employing 5000 people.

In my view manufacturing prowess should only be concentrated on certain sectors. Workforce should be skilled in productivity and services is highly productive part in certain areas.

ashish raval wrote:
Why do you think that if I write few lines of code for which someone from japan is willing to pay 1 billion and generating cashflow of 50 million with 500 people employed is bad compared to having a toy factory with dangerous polluting chemicals at you doorstep and waterways generating 50 million cashflow and employing 5000 people.

In my view manufacturing prowess should only be concentrated on certain sectors. Workforce should be skilled in productivity and services is highly productive part in certain areas.

Because the service industry concentrates wealth in the hands of a few. Whereas manufacturing requires ancillary industries and the wealth is more evenly distributed. These ancillary industries provide employment across varying education and skill levels. This is the reason China has concentrated on manufacturing to avoid revolution due to lack of employment.

Primus wrote:Southwestern US is one of the most beautiful places on the planet.

It as beautiful when going across the Satpura range in the Vidharbha region of MH into western MP near Pachmahri.

Mort Walker wrote:

ashish raval wrote:
Why do you think that if I write few lines of code for which someone from japan is willing to pay 1 billion and generating cashflow of 50 million with 500 people employed is bad compared to having a toy factory with dangerous polluting chemicals at you doorstep and waterways generating 50 million cashflow and employing 5000 people.

In my view manufacturing prowess should only be concentrated on certain sectors. Workforce should be skilled in productivity and services is highly productive part in certain areas.

Because the service industry concentrates wealth in the hands of a few. Whereas manufacturing requires ancillary industries and the wealth is more evenly distributed. These ancillary industries provide employment across varying education and skill levels. This is the reason China has concentrated on manufacturing to avoid revolution due to lack of employment.

How does services concentrates wealth in hands of few? You think services does not have ancillary industries? True that services require good qualoty skillset but isnt that the goal of humans? To have better skillset, better education, higher productivity, more leisure time? Why would a developed nation want to bog itself down into mass manufacturing where they have sbsolutely zero chance to competiting woth developing or middle incone nations? China never had any unemployment issues since last 50 years and you are free to check historical records on this. Chinese solely concentrated on manufacturing because they always has been biggest manufacturers of goods in last 2000 years and wanted to regain that position after 1960 and their leadership of technocracts successively pushed for it being hhe only way to get out of poverty. They had little advantage of language and are so manufacturing was sure shot way to generate cashflow without really having massive interaction or letting their population learn other languages or develop kind of free thoughts and democratic thinking along the way of these interaction.

Whether it’s Brexit or Bremain, the UK is in long-term economic decline

UK investors face some tough choices ahead – either Brexit happens badly, well or not at all. While Britain slumps into deep Brexit gloom, UK equity markets are still surprisingly upbeat. Markets may be sensing Brexit is never going to happen, given the impossible odds stacking up against the UK ever striking an acceptable exit deal with Europe. If so, forget about Brexit, it is Bremain – or Britain remaining in the European Union – which investors need to fear.

Either way, the outlook is grim. With or without Brexit, Britain is still an ailing industrial nation. So any short-term relief about Bremain must be blunted by the reality that Britain is stuck in the grip of longer-term economic decline. The shock Brexit vote two years ago simply accelerated the process. The jolt to confidence has ripped a big hole in investment and spending, and started unravelling many of the lifelines propping up the economy. Britain may never fully recover.

Britain is sliding into Brexit disarray. Politicians have never seemed further from any sort of reasonable political, economic or social accord. The nation is deeply divided, with voters growing more unsettled about an increasingly uncertain future outside Europe. More worrying, there is no consensus within Britain’s mainstream political parties on how to strike a workable deal on the single market, customs union or the highly contentious border issue with Ireland.

The Conservative government could be close to imploding, while the Labour opposition is on standby for a snap election at any time. A sudden election at this juncture would be fruitless. Labour is in as much of a mess over Europe as the government. Meanwhile, UK Prime Minister Theresa May’s recent suggestion of a seven-year transition period for the British exit simply kicks the can further down the road of political procrastination.

Working out a feasible timescale for Brexit capitulation is next to impossible. There will be no sudden epiphany, just a long drawn-out realisation that going it alone won’t work. At some stage, the UK political will and appetite for Brexit will simply burn itself out, requiring another general election or a second EU referendum for the log-jam to break. Europe has its own internal frictions to cope with over Italy’s unstable new government and might even throw the UK a carrot to stay put.

In recent years, Britain has slumped from being the toast of the Group of Seven economies to bottom rung of the EU growth table. It is now experiencing the slowest growth in Europe, with gross domestic product lucky to rise by anything more than 1 per cent this year. British consumers, normally the backbone of the economy, are dispirited while UK manufacturing investment has gone into post-Brexit slumber.

UK declines visa extension to Indian doctors who were about to finish training as post graduate doctors: training jobs are difficult to get, by doing this UK is not helping itself either. UK is giving preferential treatment to China while dealing India as dirt, it seems. https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/d ... ocid=wispr

Doctors working in the NHS have been told they must leave the UK after they were refused visas by the Home Office, medical professionals have warned.
The Independent spoke to one man who was forced to return to India and abandon his postgraduate degree to take up GP training because an immigration cap meant he was unable to apply for visa.
When he was accepted onto a GP training programme in the UK he left his Master’s degree early to take up his place on the course. But he was unable to obtain a Certificate of Sponsorship form his employer because they had already reached the cap on European Economic Area (EEA) workers.
“A training job is hard to come by. It is frustrating. Especially because it means you can’t help the industry when it’s very short of doctors,” said the man who did not wish to be named. “I know there are many doctors going through the same situation.”

Another doctor who completed five years of GP training in the UK is being forced to leave the country with his two children because his Tier 2 visa has run out. This type of visa is given to skilled workers, but under government regulations only 20,700 can be granted each year.
A doctor-led lobbying group has now warned Home Secretary that doctors currently working for the health service and others selected for GP training have been told they must leave the country. A letter to Sajid Javid from the Doctors’ Association UK, seen exclusively by The Independent, says that the “severe understaffing” of the NHS is being exacerbated by visa rules.

It comes after Mr Javid pledged to take a “fresh look” at the cap on the number of foreign doctors after it emerged more than 1,500 visa applications from doctors with job offers in the UK were refused as a result of the cap on the number of Tier 2 visas issued to workers from outside the European Economic Area. It also means that doctors who want to come to the UK from non-European Union countries are affected by the cap.

Mort, ashish raval, Primus etc., the US vs UK comparisons are distracting and completely irrelevant in this thread. Please stop. Any further posts along these lines will be deleted and posters may be warned.

^
UK has had a disastrous policy as far as doctors from abroad are concerned. In the post-WWII era, up to the mid-70's, any Indian doctor could simply walk in and start working in the UK training program and eventually become a Consultant or a GP although there was a very thick glass ceiling for 'darkies'.

Then suddenly on April 1, 1985, they dropped the bomb. From then on, no doctor would be permitted to stay longer than 6 yrs (IIRC) regardless of circumstances. Which meant that you could come, work your a$$ off as a Junior doctor but would not be able to 'settle down' - i.e. get an indefinite stay permit. At this time it was already tough to become a Consultant in anything other than Geriatrics and similar specialties and even there it was very difficult. With the new law it became impossible.

With the whole EU thing in 1992 things suddenly opened up and many people were able to get permanent jobs in UK and become Consultants, in fact they were advertising in India to recruit senior physicians directly to Consultant posts in UK in specialties like Pathology because they were running short. PLAB requirement was put on hold in favor of expediency and need. This went on till the end of the 90's when again, they turned off the faucet. With the arrival of European physicians, particularly from Eastern Europe (who did not require any testing or certification), all opportunities for Indian physicians ended and by the early 2000s, there were no training slots available for Indians or others outside of the EU. Things must have changed again in the past decade, I am not aware of the latest laws.

The story of overseas doctors in the UK has been one of supply and demand on the part of the GMC. Treated very shabbily, relegated to small towns and specialties that no white doctor would want, with no possibility of advancement, perpetually stuck in Registrar or Senior Registrar posts, foreign (mainly Indian) physicians have been exploited beyond belief. Add to this the humiliation faced on every visit to Lunar House where you wait for hours and your fate is decided by some pencil-pusher in five minutes without recourse for an appeal. And all this time you were treated like a second class citizen by the nurses and other doctors. Racist attitude was rife and the word 'Asians', referring to patients from the Indian subcontinent was spoken with such pejorative overtones that it amounted to the same as a Southerner in the US using the 'N' word in reference to Blacks.

The rules and the goal-posts have constantly shifted to suit the needs of the British government and that has been one of the biggest problems facing overseas physicians.

Primus ji
apt sum up of treatment of Indian doctors in UK.

In 2006 a legislation was passed in parliament making it impossible for Indian doctors to get training numbers, those were the days when NHS thought they will take European white doctors and do away with Asians (Indians).
But soon the system found out that European doctors
-were not standardised (some coming from East Eu could barely be called doctors)
-could not speak English
(in some instances it resulted in patients getting killed but matter was hushed under the carpet).

Final blow came when they realised NHS is unable to get Staff grade doctors who are backbone of the system.
In the meanwhile criteria to get training number (mandatory to become consultant) was tweaked nth times to make it impossible for desi doctors to reach on top.
All this while Indian economy kept growing. And Indian doctors realised they are getting almost as much paid in India as in UK.
Hence in flow of doctors from India came down significantly.
To the extent that NHS managers started camping in 'Madras' Mumbai & Dubai to poach Indian doctors for middle grade jobs but not many were willing to come. This happened for two reasons
-life of an Indian doctor was getting better back in country
-Indian doctors became more aware of the racism & discrimination in the NHS.

Over all as of now training numbers are coming down in NHS, they badly need Indian doctors to do the shitty jobs. But table has turned this time.
On top a population asking for free treatment and NHS shrinking in size is reaching a point of implosion.

Corbyn vows to return Elgin Marbles to Greece if he becomes prime minister
‘As with anything stolen or taken from occupied or colonial possession – including artefacts looted from other countries in the past – we should be engaged in constructive talks with the Greek government about returning the sculptures’
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/h ... 1528152539

does this mean India can expect return of artefacts & Kohinoor if Corbyn becomes PM?

Open Britain
‏
Verified account

@Open_Britain

.@vincecable: there isn't a single developed country that India have completed a trade deal with
https://twitter.com/Open_Britain/status ... 0551662593

some serious heart burn there and evidence that trade deal is a powerful tool...

Open Britain is a pro EU handle and doing propaganda that hard brexit will never undo the consequences Britain will have to face for allowing free trade deal with countries like India.
https://twitter.com/Open_Britain/status ... 6545712128

Open Britain is just stating what's been stated many times here already, but the UK backers here simply don't get it:
* India is already in an advantageous trade position, running a surplus.
* We seek more access to our labour in UK . Impossible to achieve a deal here because UK government are an anti-immigration hardliner regime.

To offer them a deal, our pound of flesh is easy visa access for our labour. Until then, we'll go so far as to embarrass them by refusing to sign a MoU on a state visit, as Modi just did.

To be fair we are one of 75 and in the range between 10-15th in priority with which UK is seeking post Brexit ties with top being EU, USA, Canada, Switzerland, Australia, NZ, Brazil, China, Japan, Singapore where demand for whatever it produces lies. If top ten signs some form of trade deals post-Brexit perhaps we will be trading under WTO forever and also shut doors for any improved labour access forever for next 50 years whereas for UK to access Indian market and exposure to its growth is a P-notes and acquisition away. This all for want of some want of improved labour access, common someone must be kidding it!! We are growing nation why should be we sending our best to any nations including doctors, engineers yada yada, I just don't get logic around few $$ remittance theory.

Astonishing stats.4 million in the UK forced to use food banks ( free food) to sustain themselves, too poor to manage without borrowing, loans they can't repay, etc.Britain ripe for revolution in the future especially when Brexit bites hard and the hordes of beardies who've already made their intent very clear to turn Britain into an Islamic sharia state get cracking with their insidious plan.Parts of British cities are totally under control of Islamic fundoos and gangs.White exodus is taking place.A relative of mine so fed up with the changing character of Britain, he was there first in the '60s, fled to Oz a decade ago taking his specialist skills with him.

ashish raval wrote:To be fair we are one of 75 and in the range between 10-15th in priority with which UK is seeking post Brexit ties with top being EU, USA, Canada, Switzerland, Australia, NZ, Brazil, China, Japan, Singapore where demand for whatever it produces lies.

“To be fair” ? Towards what or whom ? You have the whole thing upside down as usual - the UK are the ones seeking a deal, not us . UK remains #18 on the list of trading partners .

Open Britain are stating what’s obvious but the ruling UK junta doesn’t get it - “give us a Brexit deal. We will consider your immigration concerns later” gets laughed at in New Delhi .

The Indian PM had no problem insulting his hosts after they bent over backward to host a state visit, not even bothering to sign a MoU, and instead simply restating our demands.

Suraj wrote:

ashish raval wrote:To be fair we are one of 75 and in the range between 10-15th in priority with which UK is seeking post Brexit ties with top being EU, USA, Canada, Switzerland, Australia, NZ, Brazil, China, Japan, Singapore where demand for whatever it produces lies.

“To be fair” ? Towards what or whom ? You have the whole thing upside down as usual - the UK are the ones seeking a deal, not us . UK remains #18 on the list of trading partners .

Open Britain are stating what’s obvious but the ruling UK junta doesn’t get it - “give us a Brexit deal. We will consider your immigration concerns later” gets laughed at in New Delhi .

The Indian PM had no problem insulting his hosts after they bent over backward to host a state visit, not even bothering to sign a MoU, and instead simply restating our demands.

It is not question of bending over backwards which is a fairly tivial issue for India which I do not favour for us anyway. The whole Brexit fiasco happened when leaders fail to listen to people and there was uncontrolled migration of people from the continent for whom they included criminals, trafikkers yada yada. Free trade is in India's interest as UK seeks to redploy its automotive and other indistrial component sourcing, food sourcing and other imports with alternative long term reliable supplier and India fits the bill because they do not believe China comes without some seripus security issue of its own and anti-west attitude. By any chance I do not see any market for any UK exports for next two decade in India as their services are fairly expensive and we can do that anyway with large workforce.
So in effect I dont see it India going backwards on any issues for the deal that UK is seeking. I fail to understand any logic in holding up a deal for want of few thousand labour force being send for want of few hundred thousands remittence which is again a theoretical figure as tap will be off when this labour chooses to settle down and get the rest of life here.
Government here is taking steps but if they offer good terms to Ibdia first they become the benchmark step on which others seek better deals. I hope you understand where my argument is coming from.

If you choose to ignore fact on ground like this fair enough:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/m.economic ... 295929.cms

ashish raval wrote:

Suraj wrote: “To be fair” ? Towards what or whom ? You have the whole thing upside down as usual - the UK are the ones seeking a deal, not us . UK remains #18 on the list of trading partners .

Open Britain are stating what’s obvious but the ruling UK junta doesn’t get it - “give us a Brexit deal. We will consider your immigration concerns later” gets laughed at in New Delhi .

The Indian PM had no problem insulting his hosts after they bent over backward to host a state visit, not even bothering to sign a MoU, and instead simply restating our demands.

It is not question of bending over backwards which is a fairly tivial issue for India which I do not favour for us anyway. The whole Brexit fiasco happened when leaders fail to listen to people and there was uncontrolled migration of people from the continent for whom they included criminals, trafikkers yada yada. Free trade is in India's interest as UK seeks to redploy its automotive and other indistrial component sourcing, food sourcing and other imports with alternative long term reliable supplier and India fits the bill because they do not believe China comes without some seripus security issue of its own and anti-west attitude. By any chance I do not see any market for any UK exports for next two decade in India as their services are fairly expensive and we can do that anyway with large workforce.
So in effect I dont see it India going backwards on any issues for the deal that UK is seeking. I fail to understand any logic in holding up a deal for want of few thousand labour force being send for want of few hundred thousands remittence which is again a theoretical figure as tap will be off when this labour chooses to settle down and get the rest of life here.
Government here is taking steps but if they offer good terms to Ibdia first they become the benchmark step on which others seek better deals. I hope you understand where my argument is coming from.

If you choose to ignore fact on ground like this fair enough:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/m.economic ... 295929.cms

the UK always talks down to us, and their colonial mindset is never far away from whatever discussions that they have with us. This is something deeply and culturally ingrained in them. It actually does not matter which of their generations did what to us, the current UK infrastructure and institutions owe their rise, if not origins, in large part to the loot forcibly carted away from India and the so called "innocent" current generation is already complicit. They are living on the proceeds of insidious theft and genocidal crimes committed in India over centuries by their ancestors and that's OK with you??

Hypocrites that they are, they want us to forget being occupied but they insist on remembering our colonial past, especially the master-slave relationship and all that it implies. They have a marked bias toward the muslim and an ingrained bias against the Hindu.

This is the logic that is going to fry them, brexit or not. They are racists first and foremost. They are incapable of being anything else. Their concept of democracy for themselves is very different from their concept of democracy for SDRE Indians. Their charity begins and firmly stays put at their home.

Our criminals in refuge in the UK are wanted by our justice system but the brits take a very perverse pride in thwarting our "primitive" judicial system using their supposedly "superior" judicial mechanisms.

The crime and the consequences of the crime are all Indian in nature and effect.

The brits have bugger all to do with it and yet they have wantonly inserted themselves into a fight in which they never had a dog and never will.

Brexit or no, what exactly do we owe these clowns??

Another thought has been occurring to me. Because of 2019 and the Modi factor, strongly bound up with FCRA issues directly affecting the brit govt and its henchmen FFNGOs, they will not agree to whatever modi says, they will not extradite Indian criminals from the UK and will seek to do the maximum damage to his image.

There is an international coalition of the willing to sabotage 2019.

IndraD wrote:
Over all as of now training numbers are coming down in NHS, they badly need Indian doctors to do the shitty jobs. But table has turned this time.
On top a population asking for free treatment and NHS shrinking in size is reaching a point of implosion.

Very true, On the plus side, practising independently of NHS means, you can earn same for working half the time. This means existing staff have an added incentive to move out of the system into private sector. To counter this, the government has introduced various roadblocks like CQC, HTM105, changing indemnity requirements, etc.

NHS has introduced draconian locum ceiling which makes out of service jobs unattractive.

panduranghari ji recently Scott PM has come under criticism for this
NHS Grampian paid £2000 to fly doctor from India to cover sick leave https://stv.tv/news/north/293697-nhs-gr ... ick-leave/

Philip wrote:Astonishing stats.4 million in the UK forced to use food banks ( free food) to sustain themselves, too poor to manage without borrowing, loans they can't repay, etc.Britain ripe for revolution in the future especially when Brexit bites hard and the hordes of beardies who've already made their intent very clear to turn Britain into an Islamic sharia state get cracking with their insidious plan.Parts of British cities are totally under control of Islamic fundoos and gangs.White exodus is taking place.A relative of mine so fed up with the changing character of Britain, he was there first in the '60s, fled to Oz a decade ago taking his specialist skills with him.

Well well. This is what happens when you tighten the belt around benefit thiefs who had never worked for atleast 3 generations due to generous benefit system. I like your confidence and sweeping statements but I guess the deae OZ land (land of drunken abos, middle-eastern junkies living in ghettos, land where plenty of Indian students got attacked and killed as far as a decade ago and only post on BR was about attacks on Indians there) will be pi$$lamic earlier than UK and I can bet 100$ on that. All the thing you said is applicable to every single developed nation of west including Sweden..

chetak wrote:

ashish raval wrote:
It is not question of bending over backwards which is a fairly tivial issue for India which I do not favour for us anyway. The whole Brexit fiasco happened when leaders fail to listen to people and there was uncontrolled migration of people from the continent for whom they included criminals, trafikkers yada yada. Free trade is in India's interest as UK seeks to redploy its automotive and other indistrial component sourcing, food sourcing and other imports with alternative long term reliable supplier and India fits the bill because they do not believe China comes without some seripus security issue of its own and anti-west attitude. By any chance I do not see any market for any UK exports for next two decade in India as their services are fairly expensive and we can do that anyway with large workforce.
So in effect I dont see it India going backwards on any issues for the deal that UK is seeking. I fail to understand any logic in holding up a deal for want of few thousand labour force being send for want of few hundred thousands remittence which is again a theoretical figure as tap will be off when this labour chooses to settle down and get the rest of life here.
Government here is taking steps but if they offer good terms to Ibdia first they become the benchmark step on which others seek better deals. I hope you understand where my argument is coming from.

If you choose to ignore fact on ground like this fair enough:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/m.economic ... 295929.cms

the UK always talks down to us, and their colonial mindset is never far away from whatever discussions that they have with us. This is something deeply and culturally ingrained in them. It actually does not matter which of their generations did what to us, the current UK infrastructure and institutions owe their rise, if not origins, in large part to the loot forcibly carted away from India and the so called "innocent" current generation is already complicit. They are living on the proceeds of insidious theft and genocidal crimes committed in India over centuries by their ancestors and that's OK with you??

Hypocrites that they are, they want us to forget being occupied but they insist on remembering our colonial past, especially the master-slave relationship and all that it implies. They have a marked bias toward the muslim and an ingrained bias against the Hindu.

This is the logic that is going to fry them, brexit or not. They are racists first and foremost. They are incapable of being anything else. Their concept of democracy for themselves is very different from their concept of democracy for SDRE Indians. Their charity begins and firmly stays put at their home.

Our criminals in refuge in the UK are wanted by our justice system but the brits take a very perverse pride in thwarting our "primitive" judicial system using their supposedly "superior" judicial mechanisms.

The crime and the consequences of the crime are all Indian in nature and effect.

The brits have bugger all to do with it and yet they have wantonly inserted themselves into a fight in which they never had a dog and never will.

Brexit or no, what exactly do we owe these clowns??

Another thought has been occurring to me. Because of 2019 and the Modi factor, strongly bound up with FCRA issues directly affecting the brit govt and its henchmen FFNGOs, they will not agree to whatever modi says, they will not extradite Indian criminals from the UK and will seek to do the maximum damage to his image.

There is an international coalition of the willing to sabotage 2019.

Guess we should be least bothered about racism having experienced casteism, religionism, stateism yada yada in India growing up. Having visited more than 40 nations, I clearly feel britain is least or one of the least racist place on earth. If you stop anyone in any high streets of britian excluding london you will still find answer affirmative in favour of having high quality immigraton of engineers, doctors and that too 9/10 times. You go to any other nation of earth excluding america which is land of immigrants who can show such statistically significant approval of outsiders then I will agree that britaon is racist than xyz not otherwise.
Your outdated views about britain is laughable because there are 190 languages spoken in britain now and schools make all efforts to integrate anyone from any language background no matter even if he/she speaks polynesian language.

I dont think people or politicans hqve racist attitude towards Indians at all.

ashish raval wrote:

chetak wrote:
the UK always talks down to us, and their colonial mindset is never far away from whatever discussions that they have with us. This is something deeply and culturally ingrained in them. It actually does not matter which of their generations did what to us, the current UK infrastructure and institutions owe their rise, if not origins, in large part to the loot forcibly carted away from India and the so called "innocent" current generation is already complicit. They are living on the proceeds of insidious theft and genocidal crimes committed in India over centuries by their ancestors and that's OK with you??

Hypocrites that they are, they want us to forget being occupied but they insist on remembering our colonial past, especially the master-slave relationship and all that it implies. They have a marked bias toward the muslim and an ingrained bias against the Hindu.

This is the logic that is going to fry them, brexit or not. They are racists first and foremost. They are incapable of being anything else. Their concept of democracy for themselves is very different from their concept of democracy for SDRE Indians. Their charity begins and firmly stays put at their home.

Our criminals in refuge in the UK are wanted by our justice system but the brits take a very perverse pride in thwarting our "primitive" judicial system using their supposedly "superior" judicial mechanisms.

The crime and the consequences of the crime are all Indian in nature and effect.

The brits have bugger all to do with it and yet they have wantonly inserted themselves into a fight in which they never had a dog and never will.

Brexit or no, what exactly do we owe these clowns??

Another thought has been occurring to me. Because of 2019 and the Modi factor, strongly bound up with FCRA issues directly affecting the brit govt and its henchmen FFNGOs, they will not agree to whatever modi says, they will not extradite Indian criminals from the UK and will seek to do the maximum damage to his image.

There is an international coalition of the willing to sabotage 2019.

Guess we should be least bothered about racism having experienced casteism, religionism, stateism yada yada in India growing up. Having visited more than 40 nations, I clearly feel britain is least or one of the least racist place on earth. If you stop anyone in any high streets of britian excluding london you will still find answer affirmative in favour of having high quality immigraton of engineers, doctors and that too 9/10 times. You go to any other nation of earth excluding america which is land of immigrants who can show such statistically significant approval of outsiders then I will agree that britaon is racist than xyz not otherwise.


Your outdated views about britain is laughable because there are 190 languages spoken in britain now and schools make all efforts to integrate anyone from any language background no matter even if he/she speaks polynesian language.


I dont think people or politicans hqve racist attitude towards Indians at all.

Thank you for the kind words, saar.

Slick, ever ready, canned explanations always make me nauseous.

casteism, religionism were the gifts that the brits left for us. Aren't we simply thankful for that??

BTW, In was in the UK some months ago and I was abused twice on the streets, just for walking while brown, I guess.

Even if I thought it laughable, my wife certainly didn't seem to think so when I regaled her with my brit experiences.

Wonderful country. I am ever so glad that this ahole country is so very far away.

Ashish
Racism runs deep in the NHS atleast.

To start with I suggest you to read details of Bawa Garba case; if this is not racism then racism doesn't exist on Earth!
https://www.bmj.com/bawa-garba

SInce last 30 years so many reports and studies of deep seated racism discrimination in NHS has come out that one has lost count.
Institutional racism a major problem in NHS:
https://blogs.bmj.com/bmj/2018/01/31/am ... n-the-nhs/

Institutional racism is still a major problem in the NHS. In the internet era, prospective applicants know about it long before they set foot on British soil, and are possibly deterred from applying or coming in the first place.

There is evidence of racism in selection, assessment, and training of doctors. In the 1990s, a national study and one focusing on London medical schools found that BME applicants were less likely to be selected than their white counterparts. In the past few years, there has been much controversy regarding potential racial biases in assessment of doctors, such as the MRCGP postgraduate exams. Historical data from the late 1980s suggested that BME doctors were six times less likely to obtain hospital jobs than their white counterparts with identical qualifications. The current situation has not been assessed. Lack of representation of BME staff in the upper echelons of the NHS has been recognised in a National Health Executive report, “The Snowy White Peaks of the NHS”.

Complaints are more likely to be against BME doctors, and when they proceed to the General Medical Council or the law courts, they are more likely to lead to more serious punitive measures and guilty verdicts. Following the tragic death of Jack Adcock, the paediatric specialty trainee, Hadiza Bawa-Garba, has been found guilty of manslaughter by gross negligence and has been struck off the GMC professional register. It is not a cliché to state that nobody won in this case. There is great concern and consternation among doctors and other health professionals about blaming junior staff for multifactorial health system failures and using doctors’ reflections on their training in criminal proceedings. Both these trends will adversely affect patient safety. A further aspect which has been under-discussed and under-reported, yet is patently obvious, is that had Bawa-Garba been a white male, she would likely have been treated very differently by the media, the GMC, and the courts alike. This hypothesis is given weight by the situation of the duty consultant at the time of the incident, Stephen O’Riordan, who hasn’t been charged and has avoided the media scapegoating which has plagued Bawa-Garba. On many fronts, the health system and the GMC need to establish trust with the public, but also increasingly with the medical profession itself.

and guess what neither severity nor intensity has come down when it comes to discriminating against overseas doctors in the system.
It is all over, very apparent, like elephant in the house.

Not long ago Indian doctors were being consistently failed in viva exam to become GP.
Chairman of the GP committee openly told on BBC 'I can't expect to go to India and pass exam in one attempt' (!)
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-23245607 GP exam pass rates are being investigated by the General Medical Council after claims of discrimination from foreign-trained doctors.

chetak wrote:

ashish raval wrote:
Guess we should be least bothered about racism having experienced casteism, religionism, stateism yada yada in India growing up. Having visited more than 40 nations, I clearly feel britain is least or one of the least racist place on earth. If you stop anyone in any high streets of britian excluding london you will still find answer affirmative in favour of having high quality immigraton of engineers, doctors and that too 9/10 times. You go to any other nation of earth excluding america which is land of immigrants who can show such statistically significant approval of outsiders then I will agree that britaon is racist than xyz not otherwise.


Your outdated views about britain is laughable because there are 190 languages spoken in britain now and schools make all efforts to integrate anyone from any language background no matter even if he/she speaks polynesian language.


I dont think people or politicans hqve racist attitude towards Indians at all.

Thank you for the kind words, saar.

Slick, ever ready, canned explanations always make me nauseous.

casteism, religionism were the gifts that the brits left for us. Aren't we simply thankful for that??

BTW, In was in the UK some months ago and I was abused twice on the streets, just for walking while brown, I guess.

Even if I thought it laughable, my wife certainly didn't seem to think so when I regaled her with my brit experiences.

Wonderful country. I am ever so glad that this ahole country is so very far away.

To be fair I have never had any single experience of racism either as student or as professional either in nightclubs, pubs or visiting any sultry places so I find it hard when people talk about it on the contrary I find russian street downright racist and Americans too where both other colours hate brown colours. In this way my experiences has been totally opposite to yours and I have been living here for a decade and half now.
What is despicable to me is the fact that we are unable to learn anything or be flexible enough to be counted as part of world order, where things are done in certain ways and yet have tendency to put collective failures on others or something happened in history.

IndraD wrote:Ashish
Racism runs deep in the NHS atleast.

To start with I suggest you to read details of Bawa Garba case; if this is not racism then racism doesn't exist on Earth!
https://www.bmj.com/bawa-garba

SInce last 30 years so many reports and studies of deep seated racism discrimination in NHS has come out that one has lost count.
Institutional racism a major problem in NHS:
https://blogs.bmj.com/bmj/2018/01/31/am ... n-the-nhs/

Institutional racism is still a major problem in the NHS. In the internet era, prospective applicants know about it long before they set foot on British soil, and are possibly deterred from applying or coming in the first place.

There is evidence of racism in selection, assessment, and training of doctors. In the 1990s, a national study and one focusing on London medical schools found that BME applicants were less likely to be selected than their white counterparts. In the past few years, there has been much controversy regarding potential racial biases in assessment of doctors, such as the MRCGP postgraduate exams. Historical data from the late 1980s suggested that BME doctors were six times less likely to obtain hospital jobs than their white counterparts with identical qualifications. The current situation has not been assessed. Lack of representation of BME staff in the upper echelons of the NHS has been recognised in a National Health Executive report, “The Snowy White Peaks of the NHS”.

Complaints are more likely to be against BME doctors, and when they proceed to the General Medical Council or the law courts, they are more likely to lead to more serious punitive measures and guilty verdicts. Following the tragic death of Jack Adcock, the paediatric specialty trainee, Hadiza Bawa-Garba, has been found guilty of manslaughter by gross negligence and has been struck off the GMC professional register. It is not a cliché to state that nobody won in this case. There is great concern and consternation among doctors and other health professionals about blaming junior staff for multifactorial health system failures and using doctors’ reflections on their training in criminal proceedings. Both these trends will adversely affect patient safety. A further aspect which has been under-discussed and under-reported, yet is patently obvious, is that had Bawa-Garba been a white male, she would likely have been treated very differently by the media, the GMC, and the courts alike. This hypothesis is given weight by the situation of the duty consultant at the time of the incident, Stephen O’Riordan, who hasn’t been charged and has avoided the media scapegoating which has plagued Bawa-Garba. On many fronts, the health system and the GMC need to establish trust with the public, but also increasingly with the medical profession itself.

and guess what neither severity nor intensity has come down when it comes to discriminating against overseas doctors in the system.
It is all over, very apparent, like elephant in the house.

Not long ago Indian doctors were being consistently failed in viva exam to become GP.
Chairman of the GP committee openly told on BBC 'I can't expect to go to India and pass exam in one attempt' (!)
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-23245607 GP exam pass rates are being investigated by the General Medical Council after claims of discrimination from foreign-trained doctors.

I cannot comment as the area is far away from my profession but I have GP friends who are Indian and both my neighbours are foreign too Indian and Middle-eastern and I never heard bad things from them so far. Perhaps you may know it better if you have first hand insight into it. I doubt there will be racism if one answers things correctly. Atleast I have not experienced it in engineering so far and with so many foreign doctors it will be hard to believe that institution can both be racist and reliant on foreign born doctors for its function. It seems paradoxical argument to me.

ashish raval wrote:

chetak wrote:
Thank you for the kind words, saar.

Slick, ever ready, canned explanations always make me nauseous.

casteism, religionism were the gifts that the brits left for us. Aren't we simply thankful for that??

BTW, In was in the UK some months ago and I was abused twice on the streets, just for walking while brown, I guess.

Even if I thought it laughable, my wife certainly didn't seem to think so when I regaled her with my brit experiences.

Wonderful country. I am ever so glad that this ahole country is so very far away.

To be fair I have never had any single experience of racism either as student or as professional either in nightclubs, pubs or visiting any sultry places so I find it hard when people talk about it on the contrary I find russian street downright racist and Americans too where both other colours hate brown colours. In this way my experiences has been totally opposite to yours and I have been living here for a decade and half now.
What is despicable to me is the fact that we are unable to learn anything or be flexible enough to be counted as part of world order, where things are done in certain ways and yet have tendency to put collective failures on others or something happened in history.

My earlier trips to the UK were as part of some team, delegation, whatever. We were treated with kid gloves, cossetted and sometimes pampered by our hosts. single malts, cuban cohibas and what not. Pity that I neither smoke nor drink.

But now, out on the streets, it seems like a different world.

The erstwhile Soviet Union was a very friendly place but not so much now.

The french behave differently in India and again very differently in france.

I was refused service in a restaurant in paris as well as one in toulouse.

Take your pick. but don't tell me that the brits are not racist because that's just not true.

We don't want to be dragged into some "world order", especially not by the brits.

A BBC News NI opinion poll shows support for a United Ireland is at 42.1% - just 3% behind support for remaining in the UK (45%).
12.7% don’t know.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-44398502

Demographics are shifting in Northern Ireland Fewer NI people feel British than other UK regions - survey

chetak wrote:

ashish raval wrote:
To be fair I have never had any single experience of racism either as student or as professional either in nightclubs, pubs or visiting any sultry places so I find it hard when people talk about it on the contrary I find russian street downright racist and Americans too where both other colours hate brown colours. In this way my experiences has been totally opposite to yours and I have been living here for a decade and half now.
What is despicable to me is the fact that we are unable to learn anything or be flexible enough to be counted as part of world order, where things are done in certain ways and yet have tendency to put collective failures on others or something happened in history.

My earlier trips to the UK were as part of some team, delegation, whatever. We were treated with kid gloves, cossetted and sometimes pampered by our hosts. single malts, cuban cohibas and what not. Pity that I neither smoke nor drink.

But now, out on the streets, it seems like a different world.

The erstwhile Soviet Union was a very friendly place but not so much now.

The french behave differently in India and again very differently in france.

I was refused service in a restaurant in paris as well as one in toulouse.

Take your pick. but don't tell me that the brits are not racist because that's just not true.

We don't want to be dragged into some "world order", especially not by the brits.

When and where you were refused service in French restaurant? Give the proof and you will be compensated by restaurant and French state? EU rules are vigorously imposed without mercy. Yes some time kitchen closes at 9 or 10 PM. Even then they have to explain you this fact politely. Western Europe owes us their freedom. Our people have shed blood for them. I never fail to mention this fact to bring down high-fly guys in meetings or parties. This brings them to their senses within minutes. But this has to be done in a very candid and sophisticated way. Its an art.

Every foreigner behaves differently in India. Heck I have seen Romanians (living in villages with pig next door) complaining about water quality in 5* hotel in India. Even the guys who live on state handouts feel empowered in India. Basic peaceful nature of Indian folks is taken by them as our weakness.

Deleted.

rsingh wrote:

chetak wrote:
My earlier trips to the UK were as part of some team, delegation, whatever. We were treated with kid gloves, cossetted and sometimes pampered by our hosts. single malts, cuban cohibas and what not. Pity that I neither smoke nor drink.

But now, out on the streets, it seems like a different world.

The erstwhile Soviet Union was a very friendly place but not so much now.

The french behave differently in India and again very differently in france.

I was refused service in a restaurant in paris as well as one in toulouse.

Take your pick. but don't tell me that the brits are not racist because that's just not true.

We don't want to be dragged into some "world order", especially not by the brits.

When and where you were refused service in French restaurant? Give the proof and you will be compensated by restaurant and French state? EU rules are vigorously imposed without mercy. Yes some time kitchen closes at 9 or 10 PM. Even then they have to explain you this fact politely. Western Europe owes us their freedom. Our people have shed blood for them. I never fail to mention this fact to bring down high-fly guys in meetings or parties. This brings them to their senses within minutes. But this has to be done in a very candid and sophisticated way. Its an art.

Every foreigner behaves differently in India. Heck I have seen Romanians (living in villages with pig next door) complaining about water quality in 5* hotel in India. Even the guys who live on state handouts feel empowered in India. Basic peaceful nature of Indian folks is taken by them as our weakness.

a million plus Indian soldiers fought Britain's second world war! .. The buggers owe India far more than a passing mention., one of Tharoor's speeches makes a good reference to this

ashish raval wrote:

chetak wrote:
Guess we should be least bothered about racism having experienced casteism, religionism, stateism yada yada in India growing up. Having visited more than 40 nations, I clearly feel britain is least or one of the least racist place on earth. If you stop anyone in any high streets of britian excluding london you will still find answer affirmative in favour of having high quality immigraton of engineers, doctors and that too 9/10 times. You go to any other nation of earth excluding america which is land of immigrants who can show such statistically significant approval of outsiders then I will agree that britaon is racist than xyz not otherwise.
Your outdated views about britain is laughable because there are 190 languages spoken in britain now and schools make all efforts to integrate anyone from any language background no matter even if he/she speaks polynesian language.

I dont think people or politicans hqve racist attitude towards Indians at all.

I agree that there may be hostility towards an 'outsider' in any walk of life. That is human nature, an atavistic trait.

However, racism - as we all understand it - is particularly rampant in certain countries and certain societies.

I too have traveled extensively, visited as many nations as you have, if not more, and all for my own personal pleasure, as a tourist with my family or part of a small group of 8-10 people on a photo/adventure workshop. Things are different on these trips, you get to visit really remote areas, live and eat with the locals and see things that people on a business trip organized by the company or the government may not be exposed to. I don't know if your experience was personal or professional and there maybe some differences because of the nature of the visit.

I have had some really unexpected experiences myself, in China last year our small group was regularly mobbed in public places (even in the busy Tiananmen Sq) and restaurants where the local people wanted selfies with us. In Japan - a country known for its racist attitude towards Indians- I had the best service in any hotel/restaurant I've ever been to.

In the US, the worst place probably is New York City because nobody has time for anyone else and everyone can sound rude. I've had very pleasant experiences living in the South, the Midwest and even in remote and totally white states like Montana.

OTOH, having worked for several years in the NHS, I can tell you that Britain was one of the most racist countries I've ever lived in or been to. The attitude of the nurses and doctors in the hospitals was one of reluctant acceptance and some Consultants would always make a racist jibe. Having said that, I will admit that there was an occasional Consultant who was very pleasant, so racism also depends upon a given individual's perception of the threat level from an outsider.

While it was tolerable at work, the situation was openly uncomfortable on Main Street. Going to the post-office, bank, grocery or department store, bakery, I was constantly reminded I was considered a 'darkie'. Of course things have changed now, considerably so, and you can happily go to a pub in the British countryside which you couldn't then, but so have they in the rest of the world and IMHO the comparison remains. British Airways for example is a horrible airline - again, this is just my opinion, having traveled on most major carriers.

And I do not believe that there cannot be any racism in a society simply because there is diversity in the population.

kit wrote:

rsingh wrote:

a million plus Indian soldiers fought Britain's second world war! .. The buggers owe India far more than a passing mention., one of Tharoor's speeches makes a good reference to this

The British were guilty of many despicable things in India( and elsewhere), but this is one that really sticks out. Using Indians in wars in far off lands and not even acknowledging it. Astounding. There's even an horrendous fact that more Indians died liberating Belgium from the Nazis, than did native Belgians! And the British don't even give Indian sacrifices a passing mention.

Sanjiv wrote:Deleted.

So Dear Sanjiv ... Are you allowing this BR forum to visualize an ill-informed Gungadin in you ?.

Please do not give lectures about comparisons between the worst NHS hospital in UK and best of Apollo/Max hospitals in India.

Let's talk about a very much unknown-to-even-Indians, Madurai (tier-3 city ?) based Arvind Eye Care system's achievements year upon year in terms of better eye care delivery results (not just cataract but even more complex eye surgeries) when compared to the UK's NHS delivered Eye Care results - as per a study conducted using Royal College of Opthalmology (in the year 2001 itself .. some 17 years before). Click below thumbnail for the very revealing statistics on the superiority of the Indian entity's results at far far lower costs of execution.



BTW - Arvind Eye Care hospital is not an NGO or so ... its a socially minded, for-profit, self-funded, never-made-a-loss company/trust since its founding in 1976 by a retired, unmarried, spiritually minded, socially conscious Tamilnadu Government Hospital ophthalmologist who put his own retirement money, mortgaged his house to start a small eye hospital in Madurai (because PSU banks like SBI laughed at him when he sought a loan to open a small eye hospital & shared with bank folks ... his own ideas of doing free eye surgeries for the poor & still making money through high volumes of non-free payment type financially well-off patients). He then inspired his entire set of family people & their next-generation, to go down the line of running this medical institution sans any excessive notions of making profits while still innovating their processes to save up on money without sacrificing quality of service & never failing to follow their Swami Aurobindo inspired statements on performing service to the needy, illiterate, unhealthy poor folks.

Click below thumbnail to read about this McKinsey's report on how Arvind Eye care system beats the UK's NHS Eye care treatments, trainings & etc operations ... not just in terms of the comparatively higher success % of its treatment system but also the unbelievably low costs incurred to run the same system when compared to the billions of pounds spent by the same UK NHS.



Arvind is a very very unique company that is an Hindu Spirituality inspired organization which has seamlessly adopted the modern health care system into its work ethic, develops precious eye care system professionals for India (& other nations too) and became an organization where every year up to 60% of the eye treatments are either fully free or very heavily subsidized (or rather cross subsidized by the full treatment cost - as per competitive market rates since they compete with Dr.Agarwal's eye clinic, Sankara Nethralaya, Dr.L.V.Prasad Eye Institute, Lotus Eye care hospitals & etc).

Arvind eye care system had already won Bill Gates foundations Global Health award in year 2008 and followed it up with Conrad Hilton's Humanitarian Prize in 2010. The pioneering opthalmologist founder was already awarded a Padma Shri in 1973 by Govt Of India.

Did you know that Larry Page - co-founder of Google - visited Arvind Eye Cares Madurai hospital as early as in 2007 itself - after coming to know from late Management Guru C.K.Prahlad that this type of an organization that runs a a very highly subsidized eye treatment system can still be profitable through its innovative practises & enthusiastic employees ? Do you know that Google is currently collaborating with Arvind Eye Care systems to come out with an 'AI based eye screener' (where machine learning algorithms crunch the retinal images given by Arvind eye care - to come out with an AI based system that can screen diabetic patients by looking at their retinal images & predicting at an early stage about the chances for potential manifestation of diabetes induced eye issues) ?.

So then Sanjiv & Ashish - Can an UK entity, forget the NHS, ever attain such an unthinkable phenomenon of ' Highest-Quality-at-Lowest-Cost ' healthcare delivery system .. that still is chugging along at a good pace at Arvind Care system in India ( more than 40 years of continuous operational excellence in opthalmology & the social transformations it is bringing to the poor & needy through its work). Click on the below informative snippet from 2011 too ... the differences would only have widened more in current times since Arvind eye care system has only got stronger by expanding its operations in a sure-footed manner.



I will bet - Neither a SINGLE UK entity nor an ANGLO-SAXON variant ENTITY - can ever achieve this level of performance & excellence at such low costs scenario that the Arvind Eye Care system is able to perform (& still be profitable). Would you disagree with me ?.

^^^^^^^
+108

Well done, SaraLax ji.

ashish raval wrote: To be fair I have never had any single experience of racism either as student or as professional either in nightclubs, pubs or visiting any sultry places so I find it hard when people talk about it on the contrary I find russian street downright racist and Americans too where both other colours hate brown colours. In this way my experiences has been totally opposite to yours and I have been living here for a decade and half now.
What is despicable to me is the fact that we are unable to learn anything or be flexible enough to be counted as part of world order, where things are done in certain ways and yet have tendency to put collective failures on others or something happened in history.

Ashishji,
When I was in England, I was a bachelor and used to walk to a Bangladeshi takeout (passing as an "Indian" takeout, Sylheti workers who spoke Bengali to communicate with me) to get my dinner almost everyday. This was in Stockport where I lived. As I passed by, I was always greeted by a small group of kids 10-12 years as "Paki-Paki", who were stationed near this takeout. That is OK, no skin off my nose. However, the old men who worked in the take out told me about the lack of security that they faced, and the lack of help from the Police. The cash from the day's sale was attractive to the robbers who came at closing time. But once I was chased by a group of youths 16-18 years in down town Manchester, in broad daylight. They were about 10-12 in number. They chased me as I had parked my car and was walking to a restaurant. Had I not run fast enough and taken refuse in a Iranian (type) restaurant, I would have been assaulted. They stopped at the door and the owners were kind and offered to call the police, but I declined as they had dispersed by that time. And yes, as I was crossing intersections a few times I was told to go home by men from inside cars ("Go home Paki"). I always replied "I am here, because you were there". Assaults on Indians were common in Manchester those days and reported in the Newspapers. Indians were considered weak often with cash that could be taken and a target for the skinheads.
I am surprised that you never had any single experience of racism there in the UK in 15 years, I was there for 2 years only. You must be extraordinarily lucky.
Gautam

Extraordinarily lucky or extraordinarily dumb."I am here because you were there" has very deep meaning hidden iside it g.sarkar

Suraj wrote: Open Britain are stating what’s obvious but the ruling UK junta doesn’t get it - “give us a Brexit deal. We will consider your immigration concerns later” gets laughed at in New Delhi .
The Indian PM had no problem insulting his hosts after they bent over backward to host a state visit, not even bothering to sign a MoU, and instead simply restating our demands.

Surajji,
They tried that on Mahatma Gandhi once before. But the Cripps proposals were rejected by the Congress. Mahatma Gandhi commented Crips proposals as 'post dated cheque on a failing bank'.
Gautam

Suresh S wrote:Extraordinarily lucky or extraordinarily dumb."I am here because you were there" has very deep meaning hidden iside it g.sarkar

Sureshji,
I did not make that up. It was a slogan made by coloured persons settled in UK: I am/We are here, because you were there. Google the sentence and you will see.
http://www.counterfire.org/articles/boo ... were-there
....The declaration ‘we are here because you were there’, coined in the 1980s by A. Sivanandan,
....
Gautam

I've got suspicion that either Ashish raval is staying in Buckingham palace or
he's British incarnation of our own philip sir
Or he looks like British and speaks like them