Indo-UK: News & Discussion

Gerard · Post by **Gerard** » 03 Aug 2009 01:52

BAE Systems' Eurofighter Typhoon factory faces closure

Britain's last fighter aircraft factory faces closure within five years after the government’s decision last week to curtail its purchases of the Eurofighter Typhoon

Gerard · Post by **Gerard** » 04 Aug 2009 01:27

Immigrants who jeer at British troops in the street to be barred from gaining citizenship

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 04 Aug 2009 03:06

sanjaykumar wrote:That statement was (rightly) ambiguous. I think Britain as an eminent power would be much more acceptable than a Germany, for Indians. It is a little disconcerting that they are on an accelerated downward trajectory.

With Britain we will always have 'issues'. With France and Germany we are both the mystical and the emerging. There is enough fascination for India in both countries.

sanjaykumar · Post by **sanjaykumar** » 04 Aug 2009 03:50

Britain, like India and unlike Germany or France is a pluralist, multicultural, multiethnic society with reasonable expectations of its constituents to be successful in a chosen endeavour.

France's cites will never engender that type of optimism; 45 years after first arrival, Germany's Turks continue to do (only) jobs Germans will not.

I am beginning to understand that Max Muller's Vedas and the Indian rope trick type of fascination is a dead-end. The type of fascination engendered by Arihant and a trillion dollar economy growing at 8% a year is open to appreciation by all.

Hari Seldon · Post by **Hari Seldon** » 04 Aug 2009 06:52

Sanjaykumar has a very valid point here.

However, demography is destiny and a generation (say ~ 25 yrs) down the line, things may seem quite, quite different from what they look now. Ageing societies are typically more concerned with eking out a harmonious retirement than with implementing notions of innate genetic/cultural/TFTA superiority. IMVVHO of course.

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 04 Aug 2009 11:52

sanjaykumar wrote:Britain, like India and unlike Germany or France is a pluralist, multicultural, multiethnic society with reasonable expectations of its constituents to be successful in a chosen endeavour.

France's cites will never engender that type of optimism; 45 years after first arrival, Germany's Turks continue to do (only) jobs Germans will not.

I am beginning to understand that Max Muller's Vedas and the Indian rope trick type of fascination is a dead-end. The type of fascination engendered by Arihant and a trillion dollar economy growing at 8% a year is open to appreciation by all.

sanjaykumar ji,
I thought your comments referred to people's attitudes towards Indians. I see they refer more to the similarity to India in terms of plurality.

I live in Germany, so I can offer some first-hand insight on this.

There is a rule of thumb in Germany and France, that any second generation immigrant, who has gone to school here, has a mastery over the German language, has got a decent education, and is well-versed in social etiquette is considered a German or French for all practical purposes. In Britain it is not much different. These second-generation immigrants are actually coveted as it gives the companies an image of being outward and modern looking. Racial discrimination would not be a significant factor.

If an immigrant comes to Germany from say America, then he is welcome in most circles. It doesn't matter if he is white or black or blue, or even a professional for that matter. Artists are more than welcome.

Caucasian immigrants from Western Europe, Canada, Australia, New Zealand are always welcome and treated as friends.

East Asian well-off immigrants are treated with respect and courtesy.

If an immigrant comes from somewhere else, say India, then he would be accepted in society as an equal only if he is highly qualified, that too grudgingly.

If a highly professionally skilled immigrant from somewhere, say India, can speak German well, then the barriers come down without hesitation. Then he is a welcome curiosity.

Most immigrants are neither highly skilled nor have a command of the German language, so of course, they are looked down upon. Then the German racial superiority or higher class complex shines through. In India we are not much different, considering how we talk to those providing us with low-skilled services.

As far as Turks is concerned, it depends. There are ghetto Turks, who even in the third generation speak their own ghetto Turko-German dialect. Usually they haven't paid much attention to education, and they remain in that strata. But those Turks who have got themselves a decent education and have cleaned their German from such ghetto-slang, are more than welcome in society. In fact they too are coveted.

In France it is not much different.

The key for immigrants is education, command of the local language and social etiquette. Education is often free, so the ball is in the court of the immigrants. It is up to them.

shravan · Post by **shravan** » 04 Aug 2009 20:20

Three policewomen spend full day dressed in Muslim burkhas in controversial 'In Your Shoes' exercise

04th August 2009

Hari Seldon · Post by **Hari Seldon** » 04 Aug 2009 23:08

ekhanomic comment picked up on the web.... shall later establish veracity with links.

Northern Rock, the poster child for failed banks in the UK just posted another record loss, only difference this time is that the UK Taxpayer owns that loss and the bank.

Gerard · Post by **Gerard** » 04 Aug 2009 23:32

Church under pressure over revelations that Vedanta supplies nuclear programme

Bauxite mined by Vedanta Resources from a sacred Indian mountain will be used to produce components for the country's military, the Guardian has learned, bringing a potential conflict between the church's ethical investment policy and £2.5m stake in the company. Several local councils also have stakes in the firm.

An Agni III nuclear capable missile is paraded during the Republic Day Parade in January in New Delhi, India. Vedanta supplies alumina for the weapon.

Church of England investment link to Indian nuclear missiles

sanjaykumar · Post by **sanjaykumar** » 05 Aug 2009 00:58

The key for immigrants is education, command of the local language and social etiquette. Education is often free, so the ball is in the court of the immigrants. It is up to them.

Lack of pluralism is often outed by immigration policies.

There are more fundamental problems with Germany. British police commision has set aside holidays and funding for pagans and Druids, but Germany has a messianic zeal to protect its citizens against scientology.

Now I do not consider one irrationality to be any more deserving of state support than another, but this issue establishes the admirable plurality of modern day British life.

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 05 Aug 2009 01:27

sanjaykumar ji,

I am not trying to compare UK with Germany on pluralism. Both countries are different, have different histories.

sanjaykumar · Post by **sanjaykumar** » 05 Aug 2009 03:24

Fair enough.

I just wish to point out that sahib and gulaam are not only changing places but are beginning to resemble each other.

tripathi · Post by **tripathi** » 05 Aug 2009 09:12

Gerard wrote:Church under pressure over revelations that Vedanta supplies nuclear programme
Church of England investment link to Indian nuclear missiles

i think it was arundhati roy in july who started all this controversy
Business as usual: Vedanta mine plans threaten India's poorest:Arundhati Roy

shravan · Post by **shravan** » 05 Aug 2009 15:51

Our Boys fight – families starve

THE scandal of Army families reduced to charity handouts while Our Boys are away at war was blasted as a "betrayal" last night.

myView By TOM NEWTON DUNN Defence Editor

BRITAIN hangs its head in shame today.

Nobody should be forced to go hungry in one of the world's richest countries - let alone the wives and kids of our selfless soldiers.

Then there are the scandalously low wages, the damp-ridden and dilapidated slums that pass for accommodation, the long NHS queues wounded troops are forced to endure - and their pitiful compensation.

Time and again, troops don't get enough back for all they give. That's what the military covenant is.

And it's what successive governments have smashed to smithereens.

Yet still Our Boys press on, fighting the bloodiest of wars in the hardest of conditions. They are the last to complain.

We really don't deserve them.

Hari Seldon · Post by **Hari Seldon** » 05 Aug 2009 16:38

shravan wrote:Our Boys fight – families starve

THE scandal of Army families reduced to charity handouts while Our Boys are away at war was blasted as a "betrayal" last night.

myView By TOM NEWTON DUNN Defence Editor

BRITAIN hangs its head in shame today.

Nobody should be forced to go hungry in one of the world's richest countries - let alone the wives and kids of our selfless soldiers.

Then there are the scandalously low wages, the damp-ridden and dilapidated slums that pass for accommodation, the long NHS queues wounded troops are forced to endure - and their pitiful compensation.

Time and again, troops don't get enough back for all they give. That's what the military covenant is.

And it's what successive governments have smashed to smithereens.

Yet still Our Boys press on, fighting the bloodiest of wars in the hardest of conditions. They are the last to complain.

We really don't deserve them.

Wow. Would be nice if the Britons could acknowledge the contributions of the brown soldiers who fought and died in droves for the crown. The conditions they and their families lived in have improved only a bit for today's troops, seems like. Admittedly, the efforts of cherie blair in getting gurkhas justice is admirable.

Haresh · Post by **Haresh** » 06 Aug 2009 01:58

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/w ... 739362.ece

Sanjay M · Post by **Sanjay M** » 06 Aug 2009 03:45

UK Appoints Sir Mark as UN Envoy

"Pakistan expert"

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 06 Aug 2009 07:15

there has been a disgraceful incident where a bus carrying sikh kids to a coastal town broke down and caught fire. a off-duty policeman noticed it and evacuated everyone safely.

as the kids were huddled on the roadside waiting for more help to arrive, passing motorists instead of offering to help instead gave them the middle finger and asked them to get back in the burning bus.

read it in TOI yesterday.

Hari Seldon · Post by **Hari Seldon** » 06 Aug 2009 07:22

^^ Yup, and we have (well-meaning?) spin meisters here trying to sell the notion that the general public in the UK was 'apalled' by 26/11 and that 'there was a groundswell of support or the yindians' then etc. Maybe there was, who knows. But its long gone now and status quo has reverted back to form.

Anyways, there certainly was groundswell enough indeed for the UK gubmint to openly oppose the inclusion of Masood Azhar on the UN terror watchlist, I suppose?

And another loyalist worthy crowed that unkil must be to blame for the UK gubmint's UN watchlist actions since UK doesn't do such things w/o DC's nod only. I mean, really.

P.S.
But I did find the motorists' behavior surprising and disturbing. Despite my lack of goodwill for the Brits, didn't quite expect them to stoop so low so soon. Well, we all learn this way, I guess.

Chinmayanand · Post by **Chinmayanand** » 06 Aug 2009 16:38

BBC now admits Al Qaeda never existed

Al Qaeda = the base + i arabic word = the data base
al qaeda is basically just a database of names of jihads who fought the commies in afghanistan in the 80s !

Haresh · Post by **Haresh** » 07 Aug 2009 01:08

Despite all the problems in the UK I don't think it is the end.
The British, especially the English are very arrogant.
All that is going to happen is that they will just have to accept a severly diminished role in the world.

These stories are from todays Times:

Education http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/asia/

Police killing http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/w ... 741332.ece

What is interesting is the comments.

This is from the Telegraph
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/pers ... rated.html

The thing with the British is they dream of this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Dn86jcg ... re=related

Whenever stories about India appear, it is shocking the amount of resentful comments that follow.Be it the Times, Telegraph, Guardian, Skynews whatever.
It makes them sick to see a nation & people they ruled over and subdued rising to take it's place, while their status is diminishing.

There was some sympathy during & after 26/11 but to be honest A terrorist is some one who kills whites people, not brown or Chinese.

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 07 Aug 2009 01:45

Haresh wrote:

The thing with the British is they dream of this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Dn86jcg ... re=related

Lot of nostalgia about the empire and the crown jewel even to this day.
I meet many people who talk about their fathers and grandfathers serving in India.
They talk about places as of they have visited those places.

brihaspati · Post by **brihaspati** » 07 Aug 2009 01:58

Hari Seldon wrote
P.S.
But I did find the motorists' behavior surprising and disturbing. Despite my lack of goodwill for the Brits, didn't quite expect them to stoop so low so soon. Well, we all learn this way, I guess.

Surprising and disturbing? Why! It is standard Brit behaviour when they are "anonymous" - and you cannot trace it back to them. If they are traceable, they are most careful. Brits, like Pakis, worship the whip - must have heard of the "English vice"? They literally worship the boots of Romans because Roman boots kicked them well and hard, and feel proud to display all the signs of their enslavement by the Romam Empire. Pakis worship the Brits, because with the exception of two Muslim rulers, none fought the British, and basically they realized that here was a strong whip master.

The Brit problem with Indians is that, Indians never gave the Brits a tatste of their own medicine - the whip. If sometime in the future, the Brits get licked by the Indians the way they did it on Indians, then you will find love - from Brits.

JwalaMukhi · Post by **JwalaMukhi** » 07 Aug 2009 07:56

Oh Oh even the Latvians are feeling Sharm about hooliganism.
http://tinyurl.com/upperLipDownsKnickers

The British first started to make bachelor parties and the most popular thing was using our monument of liberty as a toilet. We have a stigma about British tourists.
They are probably not the ones we want to see,' she said.

Sachin · Post by **Sachin** » 07 Aug 2009 08:48

Acharya wrote:I meet many people who talk about their fathers and grandfathers serving in India.

A friend of mine who stayed close to London (for around 1 1/2 years) had many such stories to tell. Most of these UK citizens were really old people, some of them had indeed served in India as soldiers when they were quite young. And some were slightly younger - but their close relatives were in India during the 1940s etc. My friend's opinion about these folks were that they just wanted to talk about all this to some one who cares to listen. Apparently, the present young generation in UK have hardly any time to listen to these "oh.. when I was posted to India.." kind of stories any more.

Hari Seldon · Post by **Hari Seldon** » 07 Aug 2009 11:12

b-ji,

Totally agree. Ranjit Singh kicked Pakjabi butt and then Pushtoon butt so hard it aches to this day.

The respect borne of fear that the present day packees have for the sikhs has descended down at least 2 generations, and still lives.

As for UKstan, time will tell if (or when?) their bad karma comes to collect.

Haresh · Post by **Haresh** » 09 Aug 2009 00:16

Europe's suicide continues:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... inent.html

Which will lead to more of this:

http://www.hinduvoice.co.uk/Issues/21/DurgaPooja.htm

http://entertainment.timesonline.co.uk/ ... 896431.ece

Gerard · Post by **Gerard** » 09 Aug 2009 22:57

Town Hall told to withdraw cash from mining company

Chinmayanand · Post by **Chinmayanand** » 10 Aug 2009 02:29

India slams English pullout from World Badminton Championship

The Home Ministry on Sunday rued England's last-minute pullout from the World Badminton Championship in Hyderabad, terming it "over-reaction".

"This is unfortunate and an over-reaction," Union Home Secretary GK Pillai said.

"The security arrangements in Hyderabad are good and the Government of India is committed to ensure the complete security of all competitors and the championship," he added.

Barely 24 hours before the elite tournament gets underway in Hyderabad, England withdrew its eight-member contingent citing a "specific Lashkar-e-Toiba" threat.

England's eleventh hour withdrawal came a day after Home Minister P Chidambaram had assured all that there was no specific threat to the event and a foolproof security system had been put in place for the purpose.

Indian shuttlers on Sunday flayed England for its last-minute pullout from the World Badminton Championships with Saina Nehwal calling it an "immature" decision.

"It's an immature decision but I don't think it makes much of a difference to the tournament because there are no English top players in the singles event," Saina said.

Saina said her coach Pullela Gopichand tried to convince them about the foolproof security here but to no avail.

"I think they should have been more patient. Even Gopi Sir spoke to them yesterday. In India, badminton is not as big as cricket so I don't think there was any need to be worry," said Saina, seeded sixth in the women's singles event.

"The tournament will go on without an issue and I don't foresee any trouble for anyone. I think they panicked since Independence Day celebrations are round the corner," she added.

India's top men's singles player Chetan Anand said the pullout will hurt India's image as a safe sporting destination.

arun · Post by **arun** » 10 Aug 2009 07:19

The pusillanimity shown by England in deserting the World Badminton Championship in Hyderabad has been recognised as such in other quarters besides India :

The reaction from Badminton’s governing body, the Badminton World Federation:

August 10, 2009

England criticised for pulling out before terror threat briefing

The England badminton team were criticised by the sport’s governing body yesterday after withdrawing from the World Championships in India amid fears that the Islamist terrorist group responsible for last year’s atrocity in Mumbai is planning to target the tournament. ……….

Thomas Lund, the chief operating officer of the Badminton World Federation (BWF) said: “Whilst the BWF respects the decision by England, it’s unfortunate that the English team made their decision before we had had an opportunity to properly brief the team management before they decided. We had intelligence information which would have been important in the assessment of the security of their team.” …………

Times Online

The reaction from Scotland:

English overreacted to terror threat, say Scots

Published Date: 10 August 2009
By ALASTAIR DALTON AND ELSPETH BURNSIDE

SCOTLAND's badminton team will play at the sport's world cup in India today, shrugging off fears of a potential terrorist threat which forced the English squad to pull out.

Scottish officials accused the England team of "overreacting" after it made the decision yesterday following reports in the Indian media. ................

Anne Smillie, chief executive of Badminton Scotland, said of the English team: "I don't necessarily think they've made the right decision. I think perhaps they've overreacted. Certainly our Scottish players and our team manager who are in Hyderabad feel confident that the security is at its best.

"They have been well looked after and they have no intention of coming home." The Wales team is also staying. ..................

The Scotsman

Hari Seldon · Post by **Hari Seldon** » 10 Aug 2009 07:25

India's top men's singles player Chetan Anand said the pullout will hurt India's image as a safe sporting destination.

Wouldn't put it beyond the UKstanis to pullout with precisely this outcome in mind.

Also, since the UKstani teampulled out before the security breofig, they seem tot know something the rest of us don't. No surprise if the attempted terror strike/conspiracy has its managerial, operational and financial roots not just in TSP but merry ole great $hitain as well.

JwalaMukhi · Post by **JwalaMukhi** » 10 Aug 2009 07:32

^^ Probably, UKstanis are begging the loonies to stage some incident, indirectly. The island that nurtures every variety of venomous cretins is identifiying targets elsewhere to divert, with the hope the cretins do not starting eating the innards.

Hari Seldon · Post by **Hari Seldon** » 10 Aug 2009 13:04

Briton may hang for killings in Baghdad

What ingrates these Iraqis be...... The noble Briton, carrying the TFTA burden of civilizing the natives *may* actually hang instead of being eulogized n canonized?!

Gerard · Post by **Gerard** » 10 Aug 2009 22:28

We’ll ease up on Muslim fanatics

LABOUR slammed the brakes on its war against violent extremism yesterday - amid fears it had upset Muslim voters.

Millions spent preventing Asian kids becoming terrorists will now be used to tackle right-wing racists in WHITE areas.

putnanja · Post by **putnanja** » 10 Aug 2009 22:34

Gerard wrote:We’ll ease up on Muslim fanatics

The UK is increasingly becoming a lost cause. Focus on keeping the whites dhimmis, and ignore the anti-national vitriol from some of the harshest islamists in UK!!

The british who defeated the toothless mughal empire in india are now rolling over and playing dead in their home country. Can there be a bigger irony? Well, at least there is some justice in the world after all, even if it is a couple of centuries late

Hari Seldon · Post by **Hari Seldon** » 11 Aug 2009 21:07

Icelandic anguish at UKstani love....

Let us look, first of all, at the demands of the UK and the Netherlands. These countries are concerned by the failure of the Icelandic banks because they had welcomed their subsidiaries and branches with open arms, even though their authorities had been at least partially alerted to the risks hanging over those banks. They are now demanding that Iceland pay them astronomical sums (more than €2.7 billion to the UK and over €1.3 billion to the Netherlands), plus interest at 5.5%. They consider that Iceland was responsible for guaranteeing the funds deposited with Icesave, the internet arm of Landsbanki that was offering unbeatable rates. The British and the Dutch decided to set that guarantee not at around €20,000 per deposit, as provided for in European and Icelandic legislation – which would already have been impossible for the Icelandic government, who quickly announced after nationalising its banks that it could only guarantee deposits made in Iceland itself – but at €50,000 to €100,000 per deposit, or even higher.

Moreover, the measures that they are taking to get their way are scandalous. Indeed, at the very start of October, the UK began with a measure of extreme retaliation: freezing of the assets of not only Landsbanki but also Kaupthing Bank, which was totally unconnected to Icesave, using its anti-terrorism legislation. In doing so, the UK lumped the Icelandic people, their allies in NATO, together with organisations such as al-Qaeda… And since then, it seems to be using all of its influence to ensure that no international aid is really given to Iceland until its demands have been met. Indeed, Gordon Brown told his parliament that he is working “with the IMF” to establish how much it considered the UK was entitled to claim from Iceland.

The IMF itself, meanwhile, not content with putting off making its loans available to Iceland, attached conditions to them that would seem outrageous, even in fiction. One example of this is the objective of bringing Iceland’s public deficit down to zero by 2013, a target that is impossible to achieve but that will nevertheless lead to huge cuts in the most essential areas of spending such as education, public health, social security, etc.

Finally, on the whole, the attitude of the EU and other European countries has hardly been more commendable. The European Commission has clearly sided with the UK, as its President announced in November that there would be no European aid until the Icesave case had been resolved. It is true that Mr [Jose Manuel] Barroso [President of the European Commission] – too busy with his own campaign and terrified of upsetting his main source of support, London – is, as is often the case, in over his head. Even the Scandinavian countries, which heralded international solidarity, are conspicuous by their lack of reaction to the blackmailing of Iceland – which certainly puts the generosity of the loans they have promised into perspective.

Well..... more light on the sweet reasonableness UKstan displays even to fellow TFTAs.... And really, there are still loyalist SDREs in UKstan spinning otherwise? Jai Ho. Onlee.

brihaspati · Post by **brihaspati** » 11 Aug 2009 22:11

Oh,
but why should UK-stan not put up a brave face? They have after all done all they could to become a client state of PRC, but PRC is not very sure of itself, so it did not do much beyond a good deal of pep-talk. UK is mortgaged heavily to Saudi oil and Chinese chimeras. The only thing that they can fall back on, is "racism". But the further they go down the slippery path, more "racist" they will become. UK's fondness for the Islamic is legendary and extended to much more concrete steps damaging to human civilization than the French homage to Islam through the so-called "OrientalistHarem art" and its ladies opting for n*****-rings as fashion in 18th and 19th century. The UK attitude, as far as India is concerned should be obvious in the British Parliamentary debates that discuss the issue of "Somnath". It has never changed.

Protestants are poorly inoculated against Islam. Once you start doubting, with a limited intelligence and vision, but exceptional greed and cunning, its a short walk to opportunism. The more is the number of splits from the source, the greater the susceptibility to alternative extremism. The British society no longer has any unifying principle and philosophy to hold it together and develop resistance. Its society is breaking down - channel 4 and BBC is now forced to run certain sensitive documentaries - one of them was on g***b***/rape, and how the things was getting almost institutionalized and part of youth culture. The more this happens, the claims of the radical Islamic clerics who want Sharia to be imposed in UK will gain support and strength.

How long can you use looted capital to extract more capital and profits from the globe, if you cannot regenerate your own society? Apalling education, destruction of social motivation, and growth and pampering of Islam probably due to dependence on oil-capital and investments - the writing is on wall.

That the British see it also, is revealed in the recent statement by someone from the military, that UK may need to be present in AFG for up to 40 years. They are looking for a new home!

sunnyP · Post by **sunnyP** » 12 Aug 2009 00:15

Re the badminton pull out - England have won 2 medals in 16 attempts since 1977 at these championships - no wonder they wanted to run off home like little scared kids.

Chinmayanand · Post by **Chinmayanand** » 12 Aug 2009 00:39

Britain 'safe haven for evil', warn lawmakers

Britain risks being seen as a "safe haven for evil" by criminals responsible for genocide, war crimes and torture abroad, who effectively face no threat of prosecution here, lawmakers warned on Tuesday.

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 12 Aug 2009 01:30

I hope Britain never becomes part of Shengen.