The Curious Case of Daood Gilani alias David Headley & co

amdavadi · Post by **amdavadi** » 19 Mar 2010 02:36

Headley wasnt in India for a major drug bust or following some drug deal taking place in mumbai. He was comming In & Out
of India only for one reason and uncle knew all along but they let it happen.

Raman sir ji,

Sorry for being anaadi but what is MUTU?

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 19 Mar 2010 02:47

MUTU=More unkilly than Unkil!

That is Indians who are more pro-US than even US.

Looks like you are a newcomer!

Amber G. · Post by **Amber G.** » 19 Mar 2010 02:50

To hold "uncle" responsible or convicting GOI, first step for extradition, eg charging him (by Indian authorities) has not been done:

Significantly, Indian agencies handling the 26/11 investigations are undecided on whether to file a charge sheet against Headley. This is a prerequisite for starting extradition proceedings. “On what grounds will we file the charge sheet? Merely being on a reconnaissance mission or taking photographs cannot be the basis of a charge sheet,” a senior official said.

Link :here

So to put it mildly, all these

's blaming Uncle are little odd.

Meanwhile, as has been reported in the news , Dutch will not cooperate (or extradite a person to a country) with a prosecution where there is a death sentence. IOW US officials will gain more cooperation and intelligence from them if there is a promise of no Death sentence.

Please keep in mind, that not only Headley's lawyers (who will obviously bring this point) but US AND Indians officials have said - that the intelligence obtained from Headley has saved many lives in preventing future attacks, and that, has been the main reason that he may not get a death sentence.

But calling it a shameful act on MMS's or US's part is very uncalled for. Before throwing all kind of abuses on US legal system, please check out India's action(s) for say Bombay blasts of 93 (or any other terror attack).

India can ask for his extradition, (after he serves his sentence here in US - India can ask for him to be deported to India) but *at least* it should file a case and do necessary legal steps before calling USA evil and what not.

All this

is uncalled for.

amdavadi · Post by **amdavadi** » 19 Mar 2010 02:55

sir ji,

Thank you for explaning MUTU. I am a newcomer no doubt!!!

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 19 Mar 2010 03:07

You are most welcome. I hope the definition helps in spotting such namone.

Amber G. · Post by **Amber G.** » 19 Mar 2010 03:14

ramana wrote:MUTU=More unkilly than Unkil!

Oh.. I though it meant "Maligned Unnecessary by Those Updeshi's"

Meanwhile this story is being covered by MSM here in the news (US, Europe, India sources), and I think quite useful as far as it reminds people everyone in the world about 26/11 is concerned. (There are about 1000 stories, and google trend shows a high peak today)

The scums of 26/11 are Paki terrorists, let us not dilute it by throwing unfounded and unnecessary accusations at others.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 19 Mar 2010 03:15

X-posted.. We learn something new everyday!

sujoy wrote:I had posted a couple of comments on CNN's article (http://www.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/03/18/hea ... tml?hpt=T1) on David Headley's arrest, which pointed out the following omissions:

- That David Headley's real name is Daood Gilani, born to a Pakistani father.
- That his brother is the spokesman for the Pakistan Prime Minister.
- That his accomplice Tahawwur Rana was a captain in the Pakistan Army and that Rana's brother Modawat is a Brigadier.

Most of these are common knowledge but I had posted these seeing many posters assumed he was an American "convert".

However, none of these comments were ever published. Is that a common experience with other forum members?

Amber G. · Post by **Amber G.** » 19 Mar 2010 03:30

^^^ Ramana Garu:

Thanks for the above. These are the kind of things which should be emphasized.

Sorry if this looks like repeat of what I said, but folks, let us not score self-goal by citing things like "Shame on MMS", "Slap on GOI" , "US is behind" etc.

Rudradev · Post by **Rudradev** » 19 Mar 2010 04:01

This is not the People's Lepubric of China where all discussion must be confined to the prescribed narrow channels, and all criticism against the government must be stifled under the pretext of constituting a "self goal".

Just because the Pakis are the most visible and apparent enemy, it doesn't mean they are the only one.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 19 Mar 2010 04:54

India wants to quiz Headley's wife

Finally, that is all that India could achieve ! Even that one needs to wait and see if the US would allow that.

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 19 Mar 2010 05:40

Bhagtey chor ki langoti sahi
Bhagey huye atankwadi ki lugai hi sahi.

I cry for you India.

arun · Post by **arun** » 19 Mar 2010 07:15

Our Home Secretary G K Pillai says that the US has indicated to India that Pakistani origin terrorist Daood Gilani aka David C Headley is not an US agent.

Our Home Secretary has also confirmed that India is seeking to have Daood Gilani extradited:

We'll protest strongly if Headley is let off: Govt

NDTV Correspondent, Thursday March 18, 2010, New Delhi ....................

Home Secretary G K Pillai has told NDTV that it would be "disturbing" if the American terrorist is let off.

"India will lodge a strong protest if Headley is let off lightly," he said, adding, "Our ultimate aim is to get Headley extradited. We will continue to demand access, and that will be easy if he's out of court jurisdiction."

But the Home Secretary also said that Headley is not a US agent - as widely rumoured. "The Americans have told us that David Headley is not their agent; we believe them," Pillai said, adding, "If the US had known that there was an anti-India plot, they would have told us; they have cooperated with us in providing answers." ............................

NDTV

jrjrao · Post by **jrjrao** » 19 Mar 2010 07:15

From an AP story:

Chicago terror suspect pleads guilty
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/35935071/ns ... -security/

According to a law enforcement official briefed on the investigation, the FBI only had a first name, "David," in the summer of 2009 and knew that David traveled internationally. The official spoke on condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to speak publicly.

The FBI reached out to Customs and Border Protection to be on the lookout for a man named David who traveled internationally, particularly to and from Pakistan. Through a process of elimination, CBP determined the man the FBI was looking for was David Headley, the official said.

When Headley flew back to the U.S. on Aug. 5, 2009, CBP officers questioned him when he got off the plane. The officers let the FBI know that Headley was their guy. The CBP officers let Headley back into the country under the surveillance of the FBI, the official said.

i.e., the FBI plus the CBP had to hustle and work hard to uncover what finally turned out to be DEA's pet puppy...

negi · Post by **negi** » 19 Mar 2010 07:33

Unkil's perfidy or duplicity notwithstanding I don't see why we should expect others to feel or think about India when GOI is busy printing dossiers and clarifying about No Surgical strikes on camps in P.o.K , Unkil and others would have fallen in line had we pulled the trigger once GOP's role in 26/11 was established and with its game plan in Af-Pak going down the toilet GOTUS would have shared a lot more info and been more cooperative than it is today . And yes we would have barged into Afghanistan as well as the IPI deal.

arun · Post by **arun** » 19 Mar 2010 07:48

ramana wrote:X-posted.. We learn something new everyday!

sujoy wrote:I had posted a couple of comments on CNN's article (http://www.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/03/18/hea ... tml?hpt=T1) on David Headley's arrest, which pointed out the following omissions:

- That David Headley's real name is Daood Gilani, born to a Pakistani father.
- That his brother is the spokesman for the Pakistan Prime Minister.
- That his accomplice Tahawwur Rana was a captain in the Pakistan Army and that Rana's brother Modawat is a Brigadier.

Most of these are common knowledge but I had posted these seeing many posters assumed he was an American "convert".

However, none of these comments were ever published. Is that a common experience with other forum members?

I am presuming that your comment relates to CNN’s supposed action or inaction on Headley/Gilani’s Pakistani links as I believe the information about these Pakistani links is very well know to posters on this thread.

Having said that, let’s not make a mountain out of a mole hill.

CNN is certainly not involved in a conspiracy of deliberately burying the Pakistani origins of Daood Gilani aka David C Headley.

Far from from that being the case there actually is a very contemporary article that talks of Headley aka Gilani’s Pakistani links datelined 18th March on CNN:

American took a twisted trail to terror

And that is not the first time either that CNN has made known the Pakistani links of Headley/Gilani.

manjgu · Post by **manjgu** » 19 Mar 2010 07:52

i welcome US decision not to extradite Headley... we have been saved from another hijack.

GOI is having hazar problems nailing kasab ji who is on the video as well.. imagine how could we have nailed Headley ji ?

i have no idea why GOI is hell bent of collecting more evidence about paki complicity...?? i dont what will they do with Headleys evidence?? atleast in US he will remain inside forever ... and he has accepted his crimes.

also i am curious to know how many american citizens have been extradited by unkil to a third country??

one has to understand the relation with unkil is a unequal relationship .. so please dont talk about duplicity etc ..

Rudradev · Post by **Rudradev** » 19 Mar 2010 08:13

ramana wrote:X-posted.. We learn something new everyday!

sujoy wrote:I had posted a couple of comments on CNN's article (http://www.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/03/18/hea ... tml?hpt=T1) on David Headley's arrest, which pointed out the following omissions:

- That David Headley's real name is Daood Gilani, born to a Pakistani father.
- That his brother is the spokesman for the Pakistan Prime Minister.
- That his accomplice Tahawwur Rana was a captain in the Pakistan Army and that Rana's brother Modawat is a Brigadier.

Most of these are common knowledge but I had posted these seeing many posters assumed he was an American "convert".

However, none of these comments were ever published. Is that a common experience with other forum members?

Ramana and Sujoy:

Yes, it is an experience similar to ones I have had before. And actually, I think I understand the reasons why.

In the US, connections like "brother", "father" etc. simply do not have the sort of resonance that they do in India or for that matter Pakistan. Here your father can be an alcoholic or your brother can be a child *****... but by unspoken social norms, these things do not reflect badly on your reputation or the reputation of your nuclear family.

In fact, when someone raises connections like this it is considered "hitting below the belt", or "scandalmongering". It is regarded as unfair attempts to tarnish a person by associating him with the activities of a sibling or a parent. Such things are frowned upon.

So prima facie , bringing up who Headley's father/brother are, or who Rana's brother is, will be looked upon askance by a lot of Americans.

I can easily imagine an American arguing... "so what if Modawat Rana's brother is a wanted terrorist? Modawat himself is a brigadier in the Pakistan army which is our ally against terrorism! How evil and unfair to try and associate him with terrorism just because his brother is accused of being one!"

The cultural assumptions are totally different.

This is not to say that CNN is not biased against India or towards Pakistan. Of course they are. But in cases like this at least, they can claim a socially justifiable reason to quash comments regarding the relatives of accused terrorists. There may also be legal ramifications to revealing the identities of family members of terrorism suspects currently under trial.

mmasand · Post by **mmasand** » 19 Mar 2010 08:17

Indian intelligence agencies have certainly lost their 'weightage' against Healdey.Media is making a pre-mature assumption that upon access given to our babus he will spill ALL the beans.There seems to be no confirmation on his sentencing to be proportional to the amount of information he discloses at this stage.Remember at this stage US is only trying to cover its own ass by making sure Headley's stint with he DEA doesn't get revealed.I can so see ball in Headley's court as he must be bargaining even over the extent of his life sentence.He may always be released on parole after 25 years.

Obviously the fact that he won't receive a death sentence as 'part of a deal' with the US govt only stresses how the judiciary is hand in hand with the politicians.Now the only hope is that the families of the victims(both US and Indian nationals) press charges independently.

Patni · Post by **Patni** » 19 Mar 2010 08:23

For govts can interview Headley on US soil:Lawyer

Yoshita Singh

Chicago, Mar 19 (PTI) With US government's assurance that he will not be extradited to India or Pakistan, LeT operative David Coleman Headley has agreed to be "available" to foreign governments, such as India, who may "interview" him only on US soil.

Under the plea agreement, that Headley has entered into with the prosecutors for pleading guilty to 12 counts of terror charges, he cannot be extradited to India, Pakistan or Denmark if he pleads guilty or is convicted of the offences in the superseding indictment.

"Headley has agreed to not only continue his cooperation with the government, which he has been doing since October, but also to make himself available for interviews by other governments in this country. As part of his agreement, he has agreed to allow himself to be interviewed by foreign governments in this country," Headley's attorney John Theis told reporters after the hearing.

Patni · Post by **Patni** » 19 Mar 2010 08:33

No extradition, but India can directly question Headley

NDTV Correspondent, Friday March 19, 2010, Chicago
Pakistani-American David Coleman Headley, accused of plotting the 26/11 Mumbai attacks at the behest of Lashkar-e-Toiba (LeT) and conspiring to target a Danish newspaper, on Thursday pleaded guilty to all terror charges before a US court in Chicago.

In a plea bargain, Headley has been assured of no extradition to India in return. Also there will be no death penalty for Headley. (Read & Watch: No death sentence, extradition for Headley)

But Indian authorities can access him in the United States and can directly question him.

The deal agreed on between Headley and US prosecutors requires that he may have to testify in a foreign court while in US custody.

The agreement says that when directed by the United States Attorney's Office, he will fully and truthfully testify in any foreign judicial proceedings held in the United States by way of deposition, video-conferencing or letters rogatory. Which means questioning under the eye of American authorities and in United States.

So Headley could have to testify in the 26/11 trial currently underway in Mumbai.

As the plea bargain agreed on does not foreclose the option of India getting access to David Headley, the ball is now in India's court to take advantage of this opportunity and question Headley directly.

Unkil forestalling Cries from Indians who are now royally taken for the ride! as predicted on the thread months back, Headley will disappear in witness protection program after serving no more the 5-6 years! same as was done twice before with him! heck i wont be surprised at all if in 5 years a letter from FBI reaches a judge claiming his services are needed and out he comes happily to continue serving his masters as he has been, with a new ID and passport.

Amber G. · Post by **Amber G.** » 19 Mar 2010 08:50

Funny some one was complaining about straw man in the other thread...

Rudradev wrote:This is not the People's Lepubric of China where all discussion must be confined to the prescribed narrow channels, and all criticism against the government must be stifled under the pretext of constituting a "self goal".

Just because the Pakis are the most visible and apparent enemy, it doesn't mean they are the only one.

No, it is not "Lepubric" (sic) but BRF is not deaf and dumb forum - where one is not allowed to challenge or mock a churlish CT post- either.

You can have your belief in "invisible enemies" - not [only] Kasab but Amar singh, RAW, Hindu terrorists, GOI offcials, America ..whatever you like to peddle...just don't expect others will not challenge or even mock those posts.. .. as said before this is not a Brasstacks or deaf of dumb ..

Criticizing a government or holding it accountable is valid and indeed desirable, but you know damn well that this is not the issue here. What I called "self goal" is described by you as "stifling criticism", is deplorable misrepresentation and you know that. I think you owe an apology for that.

merlin · Post by **merlin** » 19 Mar 2010 09:44

Amber G. wrote:To hold "uncle" responsible or convicting GOI, first step for extradition, eg charging him (by Indian authorities) has not been done:

Significantly, Indian agencies handling the 26/11 investigations are undecided on whether to file a charge sheet against Headley. This is a prerequisite for starting extradition proceedings. “On what grounds will we file the charge sheet? Merely being on a reconnaissance mission or taking photographs cannot be the basis of a charge sheet,” a senior official said.

Link :here

So to put it mildly, all these 's blaming Uncle are little odd.

Meanwhile, as has been reported in the news , Dutch will not cooperate (or extradite a person to a country) with a prosecution where there is a death sentence. IOW US officials will gain more cooperation and intelligence from them if there is a promise of no Death sentence.

Please keep in mind, that not only Headley's lawyers (who will obviously bring this point) but US AND Indians officials have said - that the intelligence obtained from Headley has saved many lives in preventing future attacks, and that, has been the main reason that he may not get a death sentence.

But calling it a shameful act on MMS's or US's part is very uncalled for. Before throwing all kind of abuses on US legal system, please check out India's action(s) for say Bombay blasts of 93 (or any other terror attack).

India can ask for his extradition, (after he serves his sentence here in US - India can ask for him to be deported to India) but *at least* it should file a case and do necessary legal steps before calling USA evil and what not.

All this is uncalled for.

Itni takleef kyon? Are you an American citizen that accusing it of possibly being behind 26/11 cause you takleef?

Anujan · Post by **Anujan** » 19 Mar 2010 10:23

ramana wrote:It looks more and more like Uncle had some hand in the whole thing. And this sentence is to ensure he is out of circulation. Wehn on of our members posted this long time back there were MUTU attacks on him.

This starts to look more and more like RCMP and Kanishka bombing!

Anujan · Post by **Anujan** » 19 Mar 2010 11:22

Headley's plea agreement document posted by the Chicago tribune. Please read it carefully

http://www.scribd.com/doc/28575626/Head ... -Agreement

More specifically, in or around late 2005, defendant met with three individuals herein identified as Lashkar Members A, B and D, and received instructions to travel to India to conduct surveillance of various locations in India, including places of public use, and state and government facilities. Prior to receiving these orders, defendant had attended training camps organized and operated by Lashkar e Tayyiba on five separate occasions in or around 2002 through 2005.

Prasad · Post by **Prasad** » 19 Mar 2010 11:33

Anujan wrote:Headley's plea agreement document posted by the Chicago tribune. Please read it carefully

http://www.scribd.com/doc/28575626/Head ... -Agreement

In light of defendant’s past cooperation and expected future cooperation, and all the other relevant factors being
considered, the Attorney General of the United States has authorized the United States
Attorney for the Northern District of Illinois to not seek the death penalty against defendant.

Pursuant to Article 6 of the Extradition Treaty Between the United States and
the Republic of India, Article 7 of the Extradition Treaty between the United States and the
Kingdom of Denmark, and Article 4 of the Extradition Treaty between the United States and
Islamic Republic of Pakistan, defendant shall not be extradited to the Republic of India, the
Kingdom of Denmark, or the Islamic Republic of Pakistan, respectively, for any offenses for
which he has been convicted in accordance with this plea. The defendant and the United
States Attorney’s Office accordingly agree that, if defendant pleads guilty to and is convicted
of all offenses set out in the Superseding Indictment, including Conspiracy to Bomb Places
of Public Use in India (in violation of 18 U.S.C. §2332f (a)(2)), Conspiracy to Murder and
Maim in India (in violation of 18 U.S.C. §956(a)(1)), Aiding and Abetting Murder (in
violation of 18 U.S.C. §2332(a)(1) and 2), Conspiracy to Murder and Maim in Denmark (in
violation of 18 U.S.C. §956(a)(1)), Conspiracy to Provide Material Support to Terrorism, in
both India and Pakistan (in violation of 18 U.S.C. §2339A), and Conspiracy to Provide
Material Support to Lashkar-e-Tayyiba, a foreign terrorist organization (in violation of 18
U.S.C. §2339B), then the defendant shall not be extradited to the Republic of India, the
Kingdom of Denmark or the Islamic Republic of Pakistan for the foregoing offenses,.....

So him not getting extradited is actually a provision of the extradition treaty being used?

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 19 Mar 2010 11:46

I find it amazing that the apologists for Uncle Sam in the Headley affair,citing US "legalities" as its difficulties to turning over Headley to us,can turn a blind eye to the many thousands of individuals worldwide who have been picked up by the CIA,taken to foreign concentration camps in special "rendition" flights without any recourse to legal assistance whatsoever.This has become an international scandal and evenCamp Gitmo has still not been closed down despite Obama's election promises,where even British citizens were tortured there! Robert Fisk has in his latest report from Pak (posted in the TSP thread) has shown how "8000" Pakis have "disappeared",some who have been tortured by supposed US interrogators.The US when it wants gets its partners in crime to just pick up suspects and incarcerate them in secret concentration camps Nazi style.
How many suspects have been turned over by the Pakis to the US in recent times,where were the legalities then?

If the US truly wants India as a strategic partner, then without questioning it should hand over Headley especially now as he has pleaded guilty of involvement in 26/11.Not to do will clearly indicate the US's complicity in the whole diabolic attack and its conjoined at-the-hip relationship with the ISI.In fact,the US-Pak "strategic talks" is going ahead of the same talks promised to India earlier (now to be held in July?), and very pointedly the US has said that its relationship with Pak "goes even beyond a strategic relationship"!
So what does that mean for India?That Pak will always be a closer ally of the US than India.We are being openly and pointedly shafted by the scumbags of the US establishment.

Forget it Dr.Singh,please show the US the upturned finger or resign.You have endangered and compromised India's security enough.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 19 Mar 2010 11:52

Anujan wrote:
ramana wrote:It looks more and more like Uncle had some hand in the whole thing. And this sentence is to ensure he is out of circulation. Wehn on of our members posted this long time back there were MUTU attacks on him.
This starts to look more and more like RCMP and Kanishka bombing!

Where does this leave rahul and the rest of the butts?

Rudradev · Post by **Rudradev** » 19 Mar 2010 12:13

Amber G. wrote:Funny some one was complaining about straw man in the other thread...
Rudradev wrote:This is not the People's Lepubric of China where all discussion must be confined to the prescribed narrow channels, and all criticism against the government must be stifled under the pretext of constituting a "self goal".

Just because the Pakis are the most visible and apparent enemy, it doesn't mean they are the only one.
No, it is not "Lepubric" (sic) but BRF is not deaf and dumb forum - where one is not allowed to challenge or mock a churlish CT post- either.

You can have your belief in "invisible enemies" - not [only] Kasab but Amar singh, RAW, Hindu terrorists, GOI offcials, America ..whatever you like to peddle...just don't expect others will not challenge or even mock those posts.. .. as said before this is not a Brasstacks or deaf of dumb ..

My my, how kind of you to put all these words I've never spoken into my mouth! Is it your birthday Madam?

No, this is not the deaf and dumb forum so please feel free to mock and challenge anything you want. But I recommend not complaining to the admins when others do the same to you; that might be seen as hypocritical.

By the way, when you want to mock or challenge my posts, it might be more effective to challenge things I have actually written, rather than what your overactive imagination suggests to you that I have written. Of course you are welcome to mock nonexistent posts of mine, as you have done in this case, but I'm not the one who ends up looking ridiculous

Criticizing a government or holding it accountable is valid and indeed desirable, but you know damn well that this is not the issue here. What I called "self goal" is described by you as "stifling criticism", is deplorable misrepresentation and you know that. I think you owe an apology for that.

Ok fine, I'm sorry.

Dishing it out and not getting any in return is your unique prerogatve, Madam

Have a good night.

arun · Post by **arun** » 19 Mar 2010 13:14

Anujan wrote:Headley's plea agreement document posted by the Chicago tribune. Please read it carefully

http://www.scribd.com/doc/28575626/Head ... -Agreement
More specifically, in or around late 2005, defendant met with three individuals herein identified as Lashkar Members A, B and D, and received instructions to travel to India to conduct surveillance of various locations in India, including places of public use, and state and government facilities. Prior to receiving these orders, defendant had attended training camps organized and operated by Lashkar e Tayyiba on five separate occasions in or around 2002 through 2005.

The Plea agreement is interesting for the contrast between the scope of the information provided in the Mumbai 26/11 terrorist attack case and the planned but unexecuted terrorist attack on Jyllands Posten in Denmark.

In the Mumbai terrorist attack members of the UN designated terrorist organization Lashkar-e-Tayyiba are only identified by alphabets whereas in the planned but unexecuted terrorist attack on Jyllands Posten they have names like Ilyas Kashmiri.

Similarly the location of Headleys training missions, particularly the country, for the Mumbai 26/11 terrorist attack is not disclosed but his meetings in relation to the Jyllands Posten attack is disclosed as Waziristan.

The unevenness of disclosure of information particularly given that Mumbai was a slaughter while the Jyllands Posten incident was not, is disturbing.

The taint of a US endeavour to limit embarrassment for the Islamic Republic of Pakistan caused by their terrorist activities in India, is present.

Patni · Post by **Patni** » 19 Mar 2010 14:14

From the Headley Plea Agreement Document links of which is provided by Anujan.

Page 25 of the Document Para no. 12.

Cooperation

12. Defendant agrees he will fully and truthfully cooperate in any matter in which
he is called upon to cooperate by a representative of the United States Attorney's Office for the Northern District of Illinois. This cooperation shall include providing complete and truthful information in any investigation and pre-trial preparation and complete and truthful testimony in any criminal, civil or administrative proceeding in the United States, including any proceeding before a military tribunal or commission. Defendant agrees that, when directed by the United States Attorney’s Office, he will fully and truthfully participate in any debriefings for the purpose of gathering intelligence or national security information. Defendant further agrees that, when directed by the United States Attorney’s Office, he will fully and truthfully testify in any foreign judicial proceedings held in the United States by way of deposition, videoconferencing or letters rogatory. Defendant agrees to the postponement of his sentencing until after the conclusion of his cooperation.

mm Does the highlighted sentence mean that Headley has a backdoor escape even before he gets sentenced? No time line has been provided by which it can be considered that his cooperation with prosecution has concluded? So USA in principal can hold him in safe house for ever, even without producing him for sentencing in court? or as he is currently under judicial custody, he will remain there without having to go to SUPRMAX security facility or any such prison?

Also if anyone more versed with US laws and system can help understand what does combine count of "the anticipated adjusted offense level is 59" means is he only going to get one life sentence and duration of which is calibrated based on this count level of 59? I was hoping he gets least 8 life sentences, but looks like stage is set for even less then one life term?

Anticipated Advisory Sentencing Guidelines Range.
Therefore, based on the facts now known to the government, the anticipated adjusted offense level is 59, which, when combined with the anticipated criminal history category of VI, results in an anticipated advisory Sentencing Guidelines range of life imprisonment, in addition to any supervised release, fine, and restitution the Court may impose.

And interestingly

Agreements Relating to Sentencing
13. At the time of sentencing, the government shall make known to the sentencing
judge the extent of defendant's cooperation. If the government determines that defendant has continued to provide full and truthful cooperation as required by this plea agreement, then the government shall move the Court, pursuant to Guideline §5Kl.l, to depart downward from the applicable Guideline range. Defendant understands that the decision to depart from the applicable guidelines range rests solely with the Court. Defendant further understands that the government reserves the right to make whatever recommendation it deems appropriate regarding the extent of any downward departure.

Prasad · Post by **Prasad** » 19 Mar 2010 15:28

India still wants Headley for 26/11: Govt

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 19 Mar 2010 19:51

tsriram wrote:India still wants Headley for 26/11: Govt

First India has to convict Headley and Rana as part of the Mumbai terrorist attack. And then talk. its not the usual hafta vasool type of case. They have been fooled into thinking it is and relaxing all this time chasing after Headley's visits all around India much after the fact.

BTW have they convited atleast Kasab for killing Sri. Karkare and the others in the ATS squad? Or atleast Omble?
No. So what are they talking?

Should dive into a tin cup.

Amber G. · Post by **Amber G.** » 19 Mar 2010 20:08

....I find it amazing that the apologists for Uncle Sam in the Headley affair,citing US "legalities" as its difficulties to turning over Headley to us....

Philipji - Has India even taken the first step (as in filing a charge in any Indian court or FIR/ police report etc)? Per Link I gave above the answer seems to be no. In fact, India did not even denied Visa to him to visit India, or try to arrest him while he was in India iso what is the basis of blaming "apologists for Uncle Sam" for Headley not being turned over to India?

Fidel Guevara · Post by **Fidel Guevara** » 19 Mar 2010 20:27

Anujan wrote:
ramana wrote:It looks more and more like Uncle had some hand in the whole thing. And this sentence is to ensure he is out of circulation. Wehn on of our members posted this long time back there were MUTU attacks on him.
This starts to look more and more like RCMP and Kanishka bombing!

Kanishka was sheer incompetence by not treating the investigation as a priority, plus with a whole lot of go-slow political baggage thrown into the mix. Until now, nobody has actually claimed that the RCMP planned the bombing...at least not yet.

This Gilani affair may well be a lot more sinister, with actual hush-hush connections between Unkil's intermediaries/chamchas and this Gilani guy.

Though if that were the case, why would Unkil go through the rigmarole of a full trial in the full public eye? They would as likely have "disappeared" this guy a long time ago. There's a lot more to this than meets the eye, and I would hope RAW/IB know a little more than the mango junta.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 19 Mar 2010 20:30

It could be case of getting a easy/quick conviction to prevent bigger crimes being revealed?

I think the best option for India is not to pursue anything from the US on the Headley case. It will show the US they dont trust the conviction charade and make them go nuts trying to figure what is India's next move..

Rudradev · Post by **Rudradev** » 19 Mar 2010 20:38

Amber G. wrote:
....I find it amazing that the apologists for Uncle Sam in the Headley affair,citing US "legalities" as its difficulties to turning over Headley to us....
Philipji - Has India even taken the first step (as in filing a charge in any Indian court or FIR/ police report etc)? Per Link I gave above the answer seems to be no. In fact, India did not even denied Visa to him to visit India, or try to arrest him while he was in India iso what is the basis of blaming "apologists for Uncle Sam" for Headley not being turned over to India?

Amber G ji, it appears that your own link convicts the GOI as much as anything else being said on here.

To hold "uncle" responsible or convicting GOI, first step for extradition, eg charging him (by Indian authorities) has not been done:

So who do these Indian authorities (who have not charged Headley) work for? Who do they take orders from? If not the GOI?

India can ask for his extradition, (after he serves his sentence here in US - India can ask for him to be deported to India) but *at least* it should file a case and do necessary legal steps before calling USA evil and what not.

Again, who exactly will file this case, ask for extradition and do the necessary legal steps? GOI only no?

If they have not done it, then what is wrong with people criticizing them for that?

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 19 Mar 2010 20:51

AmberG and Rudradev, Peace.

SOurce

India will continue to press for Headley's extradition: HM

PTI | New Delhi

Not viewing as a "setback" the plea bargain between 26/11 accused David Headley and the US government, India on Friday said it will continue to press for his extradition even though it is difficult as he is accused of commiting crime in the US also.

Home Minister P Chidambaram said India would file charges against Headley, a 49-year-old Pakistani-American operative of Lashkar-e Taiba, at an "appropriate time" and seek access to him.

He said the US has provided "significant amount of information" with regard to Headley's activities but many questions remained unanswered and India wanted replies to these.

Chidambaram noted that the plea bargain between Headley and the US government would provide an opportunity to India to question him as he has agreed to "fully and truthfully testify to any foreign judicial proceedings held in the US, either through deposition, video conferencing or through Letters Rogatory (a formal communication to request testimony of a witness residing foreign land)."

"It is not a setback," he told reporters when asked to comment on the plea bargain under which the 26/11 accused would escape death penalty and instead could be imprisoned for his life (meaning entire life).

"There is a good chance that he will testify in a US court where Indian authorities will have a chance to ask questions," he said.

He, however, added that the fate of the plea bargain would depend on the court which is not a party to it although the court is "by and large bound" by it.

On the possibility of Headley's extradition to India, the Home Minister said it would be difficult as he is accused of committing crimes in the US as well.

He said extradition would have been an easy affair if Headley had committed crime only in India and was a fugitive in the US.

{Still being gullible. Headley is a US undercover operative most likely the US liason with the non-state actors in TSP. So how does PC expect the US to hand him over to India even if hands over the PMO to the US?}

However, with regard to the Mumbai attacks, Headley is accused both in India as well as in the US, where he "conspired" in the killing of people, who included six Americans, Chidambaram said.

"So American authorities have jurisdiction to prosecute him as he was apprehended in the US. We will have jurisdiction when we file charges against him," he said.

"Since he was apprehended in the US, we had apprehended problems in extradition. But, we have not given up our plea. We will continue to maintain our plea for his extradition. But, it will depend on what the court decides on the plea bargain," he said.

Its still in future. Not a done deal. I think they delayed the filing till now, hoping to get real access but were stymied and strung along all the while. Then the US pulls this plea deal trick and doesn't keep its bargain. The problem is India cannot accuse the US of perfidy even though it knows it because the MMS govt is committed to the US polices.

What India should do is roll up the US networks in India which they already know exist. Maybe start with the US citizens press agents in India.

Amber G. · Post by **Amber G.** » 19 Mar 2010 21:00

merlin wrote:Itni takleef kyon? Are you an American citizen that accusing it of possibly being behind 26/11 cause you takleef?

Merlinji: Since you asked the said takleef of me being accused of "possible behind 26/11" is as real as that caused to "Amar Singh" .. hope that answers your question. Rest you can take it to some other thread or other forum as it will become OT here.

Folks what I think is relevant here, and am sorry to repeat obvious part of not scoring self goals are comments which uses/used the news items "Headely Plead guilty" and used direct implication from it to "Shame on India " or "MMS should resign" (These are actual quotes - I am not making them up, and they are not taken out of context) . . As said before, it's valid to criticize any one or hold them accountable, but to be effective it has to be based on relevant event/point. For crying out loud, the plea bargain involves mainly US legal system and Headley and giving credit or criticizing far removed entities on this particular news item is what I was taking exception to.

I hope this helps a little, and does not generate personal attacks on me.

amdavadi · Post by **amdavadi** » 19 Mar 2010 21:28

I say unkil has bigger fish to fry with headley. They wont let GOI touch headley now or ever in future.If unkil's record is anything to go by past co-operation regarding khalistani terrorist hiding in US. It doesnt look good.

Hari Seldon · Post by **Hari Seldon** » 19 Mar 2010 21:31

^^ Anyone recall the 'missing detonators' circa 1993? FBI managed to 'lose' prime evidence of paki involvement even in post 1990 and pre 9/11 days - evidence provided by naive SDRE agencies only.

If said SDRE agencies still 'trust but verify' unkil, they're asking to be setup only. And they will be, sure as daylight.