J & K news and discussion

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Jarita
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Re: J & K news and discussion

Post by Jarita »

CRamS wrote:I wonder if the publicity seeking hooker prize winning suzzana knows anything about the instrument of ascension etc.

It seems to me that the hooker gets some kind of perverse thrill in going after the Indian govt, likening herself to David in a David Vs Goliath narrative.

Why is she getting so much attention from Economists, NYTs etc of the world? She is a certified mental case.
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Re: J & K news and discussion

Post by Pranav »

Jarita wrote: Why is she getting so much attention from Economists, NYTs etc of the world? She is a certified mental case.
Could be a push-back from pro-Pak elements within US-UK elites, after the Obama visit.
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Re: J & K news and discussion

Post by amit »

Jarita wrote:
CRamS wrote:I wonder if the publicity seeking hooker prize winning suzzana knows anything about the instrument of ascension etc.

It seems to me that the hooker gets some kind of perverse thrill in going after the Indian govt, likening herself to David in a David Vs Goliath narrative.

Why is she getting so much attention from Economists, NYTs etc of the world? She is a certified mental case.
This could be Plan B in action after Plan A fell through when the GoI did not walk into the trap laid out and arrest the Lady just prior to the Ombaba visit.

I still feel the whole idea was to create the incident and get her arrested so that the entire focus of the visit would have been Kashmir with all the heavyweights, NYT, Economists et al plus the Noam Chomsky types chipping in.

In fact that could have ensured the Ombaba didn't have to make his much discussed "course-correction" during the visit. And he could have used the K-word in every speech.

Also I hope some folks here don't think I'm spinning the issue, the same way I was allegedly doing when I argued against the arrest.

JMT
chetak
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Re: J & K news and discussion

Post by chetak »

Seems like a truculent child who has been denied permission to go out and play. This is omar, the lesser abdullah.


Omar triggers row, claims Centre accepted Geelani’s demands
November 13, 2010 7:24:12 AM

Mohit Kandhari | Jammu

After raising the issue of final accession of the State of Jammu & Kashmir with the Union of India, Chief Minister Omar Abdullah has now sparked off another controversy by claiming that New Delhi had accepted all five points put forth by the hard-line separatist leader Syed Ali Shah Geelani to initiate Kashmir-centric dialogue.

In a comprehensive interview to a Kashmir-based local news agency on Thursday Omar Abdullah reportedly stated, “New Delhi has already accepted all five points raised by Hurriyat (G) Chairman Syed Ali Shah Geelani to begin dialogue with New Delhi.”

Many an eyebrow was raised in the State unit of the Congress as one of the contentious demands included that India should accept Kashmir as an international dispute.

Throughout the day several attempts were made by this correspondent to reach office of the Chief Minister and his political advisor but failed to extract any official reaction. Even the email forwarded to the Political advisor was not responded to before the filing of the report.

Prior to the visit of the three interlocutors the all party delegation had visited the State to explore the possibility of initiating a high-level meaningful dialogue involving all shades of opinion on Kashmir. At that time the separatist leader had put forth his five-point agenda to join the parleys.

According to the excerpts of the widely published interview, Omar Abdullah had also stated that, “Three interlocutors appointed by New Delhi have already declared Kashmir as a dispute and they have acknowledged that Pakistan has a role. New Delhi has not denied any of these statements. Remaining four points of the formula fall within the domain of the State Government and we are working on it.”

“Does Geelani want Prime Minister Manmohan Singh to declare Kashmir as a dispute in Parliament?” Omar reportedly questioned his intentions.

Omar also reportedly stated Pakistan had an important role to play for the final resolution of the Kashmir issue.

“If Pakistan had no role, late Jawaharlal Nehru would not have sent my grandfather Sheikh Muhammad Abdullah to Pakistan for holding talks with General Ayub Khan,” he said.

Omar said from Tashkent to Shimla and from Shimla to Lahore and Agra, summits have been held and declarations signed to find a durable solution to the Kashmir issue. “It is an international issue and has to be resolved,” he added.

Responding to a question on his recent speech in the State Assembly Omar told KNS news agency, “My speech in the legislature is a history. It reflects my way of thinking and New Delhi had no role to play in it.”

The state unit of Congress is finding it difficult to digest the ally’s controversial remarks.

State PCC chief Prof Saifuddin Soz told The Pioneer over telephone, “As Chief Minister Omar Abdullah may be aware of this current development but I am personally not aware of any such demand accepted by the New Delhi.”

Soz said, “I also cannot comment anything beyond this.” But when quizzed further over intentions of the Chief Minister behind repeatedly making statements using the term ‘Kashmir dispute’, Soz clarified, “As far I am concerned I have never used the term ‘Kashmir dispute’ in any of my utterances. We have always maintained and used the term ‘Kashmir issue’.”

A senior party leader told The Pioneer, “Omar is trying to salvage his lost pride by reaching out to his constituency in Kashmir but at the same time he is embarrassing us by repeatedly raising sensitive issues. The Congress leader said, “It is high time we have to find a way out to put a full stop to immature and unwanted utterances of the Chief Minister otherwise it will be too late for us to step out for damage control.”
Last edited by SSridhar on 15 Nov 2010 11:03, edited 1 time in total.
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wig
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Re: J & K news and discussion

Post by wig »

reports suggest that J&K has been taken of the UN list of disputed areas.
In a significant development, Jammu and Kashmir has been removed from the United Nations(UN) list of unresolved disputes, giving a setback to Pakistan which has been asking the world body to intervene on the issue
http://www.ndtv.com/article/india/jammu ... r-un-66410
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Re: J & K news and discussion

Post by rkirankr »

Hi guys Iam searching for some post which help me counter some big time BS which colleague is giving. He says because of Indian Army's repression Kashmir has come to this situation.
I have countered him. Iam searching through all the posts. Please point out to me any article/post which can counter this
Aditya_V
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Re: J & K news and discussion

Post by Aditya_V »

show him the videos of Paki army killing children and the gencide in Gilgit /Baltistan of Shias, 37 children necks been slit in view of poeer earthquake relief in 2006, Mirpur being being ethincally cleansed of Kashmirs with Punjabis all over. Lack of Media coverage in POK. If you are working in the Gulf, try and get management to get this fellow fired and take the trip back to Pakistan for distirbing the office harmony
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Re: J & K news and discussion

Post by Pratyush »

rkirankr, If the fellow is not an Indian, please dont bother with him. No amount of evidence shown to him will make a diffrence.

If he is an Indian. Please invite him to be a lurker on BRF. That will open his eyes.

JMT
rkirankr
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Re: J & K news and discussion

Post by rkirankr »

^^ He is an Indian. He styles himself as a free thinker. His knowledge of history by his own claims is text book history.
He does not know who kalhana is. I have countered every point of his with proof and references and counter questions which he never answered.
The point he has a rigid view and tries to fit in all the info he gets to conform to his view. I cannot get him to step out of his rigid box.
How do I chip away his ignorance and a stupid arrogance which says he is right.
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Re: J & K news and discussion

Post by Klaus »

^^^ First of all, you'll need to break down the arrogance and the fortress that this person has built into his head. Hence do not carry on J&K/India/Army/geo-politics discussion with him for sometime. Challenge him in other "safe", less political and more trivial areas such as his reactions to everyday situations, his interactions with people etc. Then gradually introduce reading material from BR threads such as Non-Western Worldview, Epics Thread, Conceptual Thread, Psy ops and media thread etc. Expose the p-secs and DDM in front of him for what they are. Then move into the discussion on Indian Army/J&K/Coin Ops etc. A total timeframe could be 6 months depending on your persuasive and argumentative skills. JMT's onlee.

Hope you find this useful. Good luck!
Pratyush
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Re: J & K news and discussion

Post by Pratyush »

rkirankr,

Very much endorce what Klaus has suggested. If it works then you may not need to discuss the IA at all. He will be reclaimed a long time before that.

JMT
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Re: J & K news and discussion

Post by harbans »

Kiran ji, the first proof that the Army is not repressive lies in Kashmirs first 40 years after independence. It was a complete peace posting till the 80's. There were no tensions and no the Army was only called in to defend it's borders in the wars. Kashmir was bustling with tourists, film makers, romantic and honeymooning couples. It was rightly called a paradise. No reports of an Army repression existed. Hence to maintain peace in Kashmir, Army repression was not required. Hence the situation that has come today is not the result of Army repression one bit because the first 40 years or so, Kashmir was indeed amongst the most peaceful places in India that did not require one bit of repression from the Army.

Secondly the IA is on record they detest operating amongst civilians. IA has never used Choppers in CI. A repressive Army would have used choppers. The siege of Hazratbal Shrine. The Army allowed Mast Gul to slip through but resisted torching the shrine, showing tremendous restraint.

Figures of 100000000 dead are propaganda. Given by the Paki establishment to keep things on the boil. Even today it's the local cops (mostly Muslims) that brave stone pelters. If the situation becomes difficult, they get in CRPF kinds of battalions. The Army is called almost last into a deteriorating situation.

All the above clearly prove that there is no repression. 97% of investigated cases and accussations about Army irregularity have proven false. There is a RTI act. People are free to study those cases and dispute the claim. It's not been done. Because then the truth about the allegations will come out.
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Re: J & K news and discussion

Post by rkirankr »

^^ Hi guys , thanks for the tip

Made some progress. First he was reluctant to raise the issue during tea break today. Though we taunted him in a friendly manner.

He conceded to some of our points saying "maybe you are right". He also agreed he has not read much but only follows "very good", "reputed" (in his words)media like The week, outlook, India Today. He conceded may be they might have been wrong now and then.

So a small crack in the fortress. I will try to widen it so that some real knowledge would reach him

Thanks once again
chetak
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Re: J & K news and discussion

Post by chetak »

About time we did so openly and forcefully. :evil:


http://www.indianexpress.com/news/india ... et/711151/

India equates Jammu & Kashmir with Tibet?

Pranab Dhal Samanta
Mon Nov 15 2010

Barely a month ahead of Chinese Premier Wen Jiabao’s visit to India next month, New Delhi has made it clear that it expects Beijing to set the record straight on Jammu & Kashmir by reciprocating just the way India has done in the case of Chinese sensitivities in Tibet and Taiwan.

This was conveyed by External Affairs Minister S M Krishna to his Chinese counterpart Yang Jiechi in the course a 70-minute bilateral conversation on the margins of the Russia-India-China trilateral meet here on Sunday.

However, Yang continued to be ambiguous in his response and did not even raise the issue of New Delhi having frozen high-level military exchanges after Beijing conveyed that the Northern Army Commander would have to be considered for a stapled visa as he is in-charge of a “disputed area”.

Giving out details of these talks, Foreign Secretary Nirupama Rao put it bluntly on record: “Our minister (Krishna) referred to the need to show mutual sensitivity and that the Chinese side needs to be sensitive to our concerns in J&K like India has been sensitive to Chinese concerns on Taiwan and Tibet.”
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Re: J & K news and discussion

Post by rohitvats »

WRT the guy and his POV about Kashmir and IA - I used to be patient and give explanations earlier.

But now I am more brutal in my approach. I basically challenge him on his facts and sources and thrash each one of them. And then rub it in to ensure that he knows and feels that he was wrong all along and that he was an idiot to have formed an opinion based on wrong facts. And have the gall to debate using those points...If couple of people are sitting around, better. Let them also get the gyaan and message.
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Re: J & K news and discussion

Post by darshhan »

rkirankr wrote:^^ Hi guys , thanks for the tip

Made some progress. First he was reluctant to raise the issue during tea break today. Though we taunted him in a friendly manner.

He conceded to some of our points saying "maybe you are right". He also agreed he has not read much but only follows "very good", "reputed" (in his words)media like The week, outlook, India Today. He conceded may be they might have been wrong now and then.

So a small crack in the fortress. I will try to widen it so that some real knowledge would reach him

Thanks once again
rkirankr ji.You can also show him the interview of E.Ramamohan who was former DGP BSF and also a former Army man.I think his videos were posted in the Red menace thread.A real Professional.If he watches this interview lot of his misconceptions about Indian army and security personnel will be cleared.
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Re: J & K news and discussion

Post by Juggi G »

Kashmir is India's 'Internal' Issue : US Envoy
Image
Kashmir is India's 'Internal' Issue : US Envoy
PTI, Nov 15, 2010


NEW DELHI: With Kashmir reportedly being excluded from the UN list of unresolved disputes, the US today said it was an "internal issue" of India and should be resolved bilaterally through negotiations with Pakistan.

"This is an internal issue for India. It is a bilateral issue between Pakistan and India, to discuss term, scope, character and pace," US Ambassador Timothy Roemer said.

He was asked to comment on UN excluding Kashmir from list of unresolved international issues.

"The (US) President ( Barack Obama), I think was very articulate on this issue of Kashmir. This is an internal issue for India," he said on the sidelines of a function here.

Roemer noted that during his visit, Obama had said that he encouraged Prime Minister Manmohan Singh and people of India to engage with the government and people of Pakistan.

He underlined that whenever India and Pakistan talk, it will be at the "pace and character" of the two countries.

On Obama announcing support for India's bid for permanent UNSC membership, he said the US will now work to realise the promise.

"We are very proud about President's announcement that he is unequivocally and fervently in favour of India having a permanent seat in a reformed United Nations. It was one of the many highlights of (his) visit to India..We will be working to see that happen," Roemer said.
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Re: J & K news and discussion

Post by Prem »

Is it conincidental that PRC start singing the Jay and Kay song right from the time/spot now being left by US. Look like Batton passing ritual in Asia.
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Re: J & K news and discussion

Post by Sanku »

rkirankr wrote:^^ Hi guys , thanks for the tip

Made some progress. First he was reluctant to raise the issue during tea break today. Though we taunted him in a friendly manner.
Keep pressing the advantage, dont let up. Seize the initiative.
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Re: J & K news and discussion

Post by krisna »

Sanku wrote:
rkirankr wrote:^^ Hi guys , thanks for the tip

Made some progress. First he was reluctant to raise the issue during tea break today. Though we taunted him in a friendly manner.
Keep pressing the advantage, dont let up. Seize the initiative.
Harping on J&K only may end in stalemate as the person concerned may not agree to your view point.
It is best to know what drives his agenda and his belief system. cracking at belief system/ideology has a better chance of breaking his resistance.
Belief develops through an idea/ideology. This is like a table top without legs. The legs of the table are made of references to support the table(idea). this gets converted into belief. with time this becomes strong and difficult to remove. this ends in stalemate saying you believe in something and I dont agree with it ithyadi ithyadi.
The references can come from various sources- books, persons, experiences and also imagination.

At least what I do is try to know his/her sources and references about the info. I appear consistent and give facts also. slow but surely chip away at his sources or beliefs. This weakens his references creating self doubts about his belief systems.
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Re: J & K news and discussion

Post by krisna »

size does matter
Image
The Vale of Kashmir, which is often used synonymously with the state of Jammu and Kashmir in international forums, is the only portion affected by separatism in the state.
It is about 7% of J&K.
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Re: J & K news and discussion

Post by krisna »

VenkataS
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Re: J & K news and discussion

Post by VenkataS »

A disgusting article in the HuffingtonPost by Michael Hughes.

U.S. silence on Kashmir emboldens India's nationalists, empowers Taliban
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/michael-h ... 83419.html

If you read the article you wouldn't be faulted for assuming that it probably was written by Paki Jernail for Yawn. But no it isn't!!!
One wonders if New Delhi was able to procure President Barack Obama's silence on the Kashmir issue during his recent trip to Bharat
Ahmed Rashid stressed in Foreign Policy Magazine last week that the road to Kabul runs through Kashmir, and America's biggest mistake is its failure to recognize Pakistan's near-fatal obsession with India. Pakistani Army Chief, General Kayani, ..., whose fears are deeply rooted in a Pakistani military mindset that will require major Indian overtures before it changes.
How is the above India's fault and why should India make the overtures!
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Re: J & K news and discussion

Post by wig »

http://www.tribuneindia.com/2010/20101116/j&k.htm#1
Hizbul’s ‘Mr Surrender’ arrested in Delhi Was involved in 20 killings in state
New Delhi/Jammu, November 15
After evading arrest for nearly a decade, Hizbul Mujahideen's self-styled divisional commander Mohammed Abdullah referred to as “Mr Surrender”, was arrested in Delhi early today.
After evading arrest for nearly a decade, Hizbul Mujahideen's self-styled divisional commander Mohammed Abdullah referred to as “Mr Surrender”, was arrested in Delhi early today.

Mohammed Abdullah Chechi, alias Abdullah Inqualabi, a resident of Pak-occupied Kashmir (PoK), had come to Delhi last week to "activate some sleeper cells," a senior police officer said.

He was arrested in a joint operation by the Jammu and Kashmir and the Delhi police from Deer Park in South Delhi and police claimed he was nabbed after a brief exchange of fire.

Abdullah was known as "Mr Surrender" as he used to contact several senior police officials with a proposal to surrender while carrying out his nefarious activities.
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Re: J & K news and discussion

Post by Lalmohan »

the spate of pro-pak anti india articles appearing from US thinkerati sounds more like an orchestrated campaign to turn on the heat again. obviously something happened during the ombaba visit that the unkil establishment is not happy about...
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Re: J & K news and discussion

Post by Pratyush »

Do the words Mid cource correcton mean any thing to you. Perhaps the Khans are not happy with the reception in Mumbai.
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Re: J & K news and discussion

Post by Lalmohan »

khan is definitely not happy
obviously india refused the title of indian ocean poodle
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Re: J & K news and discussion

Post by Pratyush »

How is that possible?

Being that is in our interests onlee. (IMHO onlee).
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Re: J & K news and discussion

Post by Lalmohan »

IOR overlord yes
poodle no
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Re: J & K news and discussion

Post by Pratyush »

I think I was nat bery clear in my post. The road to overlordship can only be gained if we dont have any one blocking us. If by being poodles we can achieve it then we should be open to the Idea in the short term. (I must admit am thinking like a Paki jernail in this regard. Full of tactical brilliance)
Last edited by Pratyush on 16 Nov 2010 14:37, edited 1 time in total.
Lalmohan
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Re: J & K news and discussion

Post by Lalmohan »

the price of poodledom is very high... babus and netas have always prefered a more independent route
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Re: J & K news and discussion

Post by Pratyush »

Nothing escapes the hawk eyes of the Lall mullah. be they Lal chix or the posts made.
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Re: J & K news and discussion

Post by ramana »

Pratyush, A poodle can never be an overlord for the poodle will be neutered for that role. E.g. the euunchs guarding the Sultan's seraglios. Only in Islamic kingdoms that can happen for its brutalization across generations.

So listen to Lal Mullah he knows the past.
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Re: J & K news and discussion

Post by Venkarl »

rkirankr wrote:Hi guys Iam searching for some post which help me counter some big time BS which colleague is giving. He says because of Indian Army's repression Kashmir has come to this situation.
I have countered him. Iam searching through all the posts. Please point out to me any article/post which can counter this
I was a lurker on BRF since 2004 and met a US based NRI who was bashing Arjun, Agnis and what not...you just tell him that its an Indian Weapon System...your day is done in few minutes. Thats the mental setup of this post 30s guy. I simply referred him to BRF in 2006 and see for himself where his knowledge stands...before R2I in 2009 he asked me to recommend him to register on BRF :P and started appreciating our works and systems. Just tell your guy to discuss his views here. His arrogance will be ripped in unmentionable ways. But its a favor to him actually.

Apologies for OT
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Re: J & K news and discussion

Post by negi »

Cross posting from internal security thread.

Pak national accused of recruiting Kerala youth for terror in Kashmir
The National Investigation Agency on Tuesday named Pakistan national 'Wali' Abdul Rahman as an accused in the case of recruitment of youth from Kerala for terrorist activities in Kashmir.

He has been named as 24th accused in the case which hit the headlines after the death of four Malayalee youth in an encounter with security forces in the valley in October 2008. The dead were identified as Mohd Fayaz of Kannur, Abdul Rahim of Malappuram, Rimon alias Mohd Yasin - a convert from Christianity - from Ernakulam and Fayeez of Kannur.
Subsequently, it came to light that Faisal was one of the main recruiting agents for Lashkar-e-Toiba and is believed to have taken at least 300 men, mostly from Kannur, to Bangalore and Hyderabad for induction in terror. But the state government claimed that the figures were exaggerated.
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Re: J & K news and discussion

Post by Juggi G »

Khamenei Urges Muslims to 'Help' Kashmir :evil:
Image
Khamenei Urges Muslims to 'Help' Kashmir
ANI, Nov 16, 2010
, 03.19pm IST

TEHRAN: The Supreme leader of Iran, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, has urged the Islamic Ummah to sympathise and provide assistance to Kashmir, and called the United States an arrogant, "self-styled commandant of the Islamic region and the real sponsor of the Zionist regime". (Read: UN removes J&K from disputed list, Pak objects)

"Today the major duties of the elite of the Islamic Ummah is to provide help to the Palestinian nation and the besieged people of Gaza, to sympathise and provide assistance to the nations of Afghanistan, Pakistan, Iraq and Kashmir, to engage in struggle and resistance against the aggressions of the United States and the Zionist regime, to safeguard the solidarity of Muslims and stop tainted hands and mercenary voices that try to damage this unity, to spread awakening and the sense of responsibility and commitment among Muslim youth throughout Islamic communities," Khamenei's office quoted him, as saying, in his message to the Hajj pilgrims.

"The extensive propaganda of the enemy to spread Islamophobia, its offhand efforts to create discord among Muslim sects, to incite sectarian prejudices, to bring about pseudo-confrontations between the Sunnis and the Shi'ah, to create disunity between Islamic states and to aggravate their differences, to change them into hostility and unsolvable conflicts, its employment of intelligence and espionage outfits to propagate corruption and immorality amongst the youth--all these are nervous and bewildered responses to the steady and firm advances of the Islamic Ummah towards awakening, honour and freedom," he added.

Khamenei noted that in today's world, the "Zionist regime is no more the undefeatable monster of 30 years ago. The United States and the West are also no more the unquestionable decision-makers of the Middle East that they were two decades ago."

"Contrary to the situation that existed ten years ago, the nuclear know-how and other complex technologies are no longer considered inaccessible daydreams for Muslim nations of the region," he added.

In his message, Khamenei went on to say, "Today the arrogant United States, the self-styled commandant of the Islamic region and the real sponsor of the Zionist regime, is bogged down in the quagmire of its own making in Afghanistan. As a result of all its crimes against the people of Iraq, it is in the course of becoming isolated in that country. It is hated more than ever before in disaster-stricken Pakistan."

He said that the influence of the anti-Islamic front was receding while the wave of Islamic awakening was "steadily advancing and growing in depth day by day."

"On the one hand, this hopeful and promising situation should inspire us, the Muslim nations, to keep marching ahead towards the desirable future with ever greater confidence. On the other hand, the past lessons and experience should make us more vigilant than ever before," said the spiritual leader, adding, "This general imperative undoubtedly calls for greater commitment from religious scholars, political leaders, intellectuals and youth than the others and requires them to be at the vanguard of the struggle."
& some Folks Think Evil Iran can be India's Ally
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Re: J & K news and discussion

Post by Lalmohan »

^^^ that speech is 98% directed against the US, 1% against Israel, and possibly 0.05% against India
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Re: J & K news and discussion

Post by anupmisra »

This speech is mostly targeted at helping the Shia population wherever its in minority. Khamenei lumps kashmir with Iraq and pakhanistan. The diatribe against the US and Israel is mandatory.
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Re: J & K news and discussion

Post by Rishirishi »

Lalmohan wrote:^^^ that speech is 98% directed against the US, 1% against Israel, and possibly 0.05% against India
The speach states the true feelings. Face it.
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Re: J & K news and discussion

Post by JE Menon »

The word "Kashmir" has no business to be in any critical language from Khamen'i. They should think very very carefully about such things. Iran needs real friends.

On the other hand, they may have inadvertently done us a favour.
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