The Jan Lokpal Bill, Anna Hazare, and Baba Ramdev II

IndraD · Post by **IndraD** » 02 Sep 2011 02:56

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 829275.cms

Dalit leaders meet Singhavi with their lokpal draft

JwalaMukhi · Post by **JwalaMukhi** » 02 Sep 2011 04:13

http://www.firstpost.com/politics/why-a ... 73563.html

The whole Lokpal/Jan Lokpal exercise has, to some extent, drawn attention away from Bofors, Liechtenstein, Hasan Ali and Swiss banks. I am puzzled that “Team Anna” has never asked for the names of Indians with Swiss bank accounts or questioned Bofors or Liechtenstein beneficiaries when all of these are being argued in courts and in the public domain.

This government has sent its law officers to the UK to defreeze a Bofors-related account. Team Anna should ask for that money to be brought back. They want to fight corruption in the “abstract” – which is like interpreting a Picasso painting. Everybody can have a view and have discussions. But no conclusion.

Corruption cannot be fought in the abstract. “Team Anna” should concentrate on “name” and “form” instead of just Bills and Acts. Anna and his group should ask for the Liechtenstein and Swiss bank holders’ names instead of being enthused by desk-thumping law-makers.

Well the good professor observes it well. But the whole drama was possibly done to actually achieve the dissipation of focus. The goal was set to remove focus from names and form.

Team Anna's movement was as practical as "brahmacharya" for the masses, which sounds good in theory but has zero value in practice.

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 02 Sep 2011 07:12

From the Urdu Press

The Anna effect

The daily Inquilab, published from Mumbai, Delhi, Lucknow, Kanpur and Bareilly, writes in its editorial on August 29: “The politicians have been left with no choice except to ensure effective steps are taken against corruption. Corruption has constrained the potential of this country.” It adds: “After these ongoing celebrations die down, the secret behind Anna Hazare’s support will have to be revealed — was it voluntary or deliberately secured? If the latter, what were the objectives of those who secured it and why did they not come out in the open?”

Written a day before Anna announced the end of his fast, an editorial in Hyderabad-based daily, Munsif, says: “India is a democratic country where the citizens are king-makers. But it is also necessary that the people protect the honour of the elected government, the dignity of people’s representatives and institutions.”

The daily Siasat, published from Hyderabad and Bangalore, writes in its editorial on August 25: “It appears the government had not made any preparations to deal with this challenge... The UPA now stands exposed before the people.” Delhi-based daily, Hamara Samaj, in its editorial on August 30, writes: “Whether Team Anna won or lost is not a big issue, but the fact remains the government was defeated. The most dangerous aspect of the movement is the understanding between the Congress and the BJP, their praise of Hazare and their readiness to give legitimacy to illegal and undemocratic demands by providing Parliament’s seal.”

Delhi-based daily Jadeed Khabar comments in its August 29 editorial: “It was the effect of the non-participation of Dalits and Muslims that Hazare ended his fast with the assistance of Dalit and Muslim girls, so that he could send the message that these two sections are also with him.”

sum · Post by **sum** » 02 Sep 2011 11:04

^^ Once the song and dance dies down, the empire will strike back with its usual pin-pricks:

Kejriwal asked to pay Rs 9 lakh dues by I-T dept, Hegde slams govt

Anti-corruption crusader Anna Hazare's key aide Arvind Kejriwal has been asked by the Income Tax department to pay dues of Rs 9 lakh to the government. According reports in the media, Kejriwal was given this notice last month, just before Anna Hazare began his fast on August 16. Reacting
to the news, another eminent Team India member and former Karnataka lokayukta Santosh Hegde said today that govt move seems to be vindictive due to its timing.

According to reports, though Kejriwal had tendered his resignation from the job in Indian Revenue Service in February 2006, it has not yet been accepted. According to the notice, he has violated the service bond conditions and now his resignation will only be accepted if he clears the dues.

ED books Ramdev, his aide for Fema violation

The Enforcement Directorate (ED), probing overseas investments and transactions carried out by organisations allegedly associated with Baba Ramdev, has booked the yoga guru and his Hardwar-based trust in a case of alleged violations of foreign exchange rules.

According to sources, the ED has registered the case under the provisions of the Foreign Exchange Management Act (FEMA) on the basis of a report from the Reserve Bank of India (RBI). The case has been registered against Ramdev and two trusts associated with yoga guru, including Patanjali Yogpeeth, sources said.
The ED will send them notices in this regard on Friday.

^^ Another interesting thing is that ALL media outlets have now dropped the suffix "Baba" and are only calling him "Ramdev" unlike earlier coverage...

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 02 Sep 2011 11:14

india will be truly free the day such notices are served on 10 janpath, after due enquiries.

before that, all is Maya.

sanjeevpunj · Post by **sanjeevpunj** » 02 Sep 2011 16:10

Regarding Arvind Kejriwal's IB enquiries.This is bound to happen.When someone takes a stand against corruption, he has to first prove he is not corrupt.It is all in the process of accepting his validity as a possible member of Lokpal in the future.As for Anna they only have a temple to investigate,if Anna has hidden coffers of wealth there or not, but in Arvind Kejriwal's case many relatives are in focus.Necessary risks of being a Lok Pal functionary-accept the interrogations peacefully.

Atri · Post by **Atri** » 02 Sep 2011 16:36

sum wrote:^^ Once the song and dance dies down, the empire will strike back with its usual pin-pricks:

Kejriwal asked to pay Rs 9 lakh dues by I-T dept, Hegde slams govt

Anti-corruption crusader Anna Hazare's key aide Arvind Kejriwal has been asked by the Income Tax department to pay dues of Rs 9 lakh to the government. According reports in the media, Kejriwal was given this notice last month, just before Anna Hazare began his fast on August 16. Reacting
to the news, another eminent Team India member and former Karnataka lokayukta Santosh Hegde said today that govt move seems to be vindictive due to its timing.

According to reports, though Kejriwal had tendered his resignation from the job in Indian Revenue Service in February 2006, it has not yet been accepted. According to the notice, he has violated the service bond conditions and now his resignation will only be accepted if he clears the dues.
ED books Ramdev, his aide for Fema violation

The Enforcement Directorate (ED), probing overseas investments and transactions carried out by organisations allegedly associated with Baba Ramdev, has booked the yoga guru and his Hardwar-based trust in a case of alleged violations of foreign exchange rules.

According to sources, the ED has registered the case under the provisions of the Foreign Exchange Management Act (FEMA) on the basis of a report from the Reserve Bank of India (RBI). The case has been registered against Ramdev and two trusts associated with yoga guru, including Patanjali Yogpeeth, sources said.
The ED will send them notices in this regard on Friday.
^^ Another interesting thing is that ALL media outlets have now dropped the suffix "Baba" and are only calling him "Ramdev" unlike earlier coverage...

No proof of Fema violations against Ramdev trusts: ED - Times of India.

vijayk · Post by **vijayk** » 02 Sep 2011 17:58

Atri wrote: ED books Ramdev, his aide for Fema violation

The Enforcement Directorate (ED), probing overseas investments and transactions carried out by organisations allegedly associated with Baba Ramdev, has booked the yoga guru and his Hardwar-based trust in a case of alleged violations of foreign exchange rules.

According to sources, the ED has registered the case under the provisions of the Foreign Exchange Management Act (FEMA) on the basis of a report from the Reserve Bank of India (RBI). The case has been registered against Ramdev and two trusts associated with yoga guru, including Patanjali Yogpeeth, sources said.
The ED will send them notices in this regard on Friday.

^^ Another interesting thing is that ALL media outlets have now dropped the suffix "Baba" and are only calling him "Ramdev" unlike earlier coverage...
No proof of Fema violations against Ramdev trusts: ED - Times of India.

Ramdev associate S K Tijarawala said, "Our trusts don't have any information about the case so far. We are a law abiding organization." He specifically denied the charge of having made any illegal remittance abroad. "This is a media trial to muzzle civil society voices against corruption," he said.

"The government is pandering to its own phobia. This is part of the tactics by which they want to silence all those people who are speaking out against corruption. They first tried divide and rule. When that did not work, they want to destroy our credibility by giving out such information. If there is indeed a case, then we should come to know about it first and not the media. That has not happened. We have received no official intimation whatsoever about any of these allegations," Tijarawala said.

This has become so common with SOnia regime. First, harass the opponents with CBI or ED or some other agency. Then weaken the case if they support them in the Parliament. They are just extending the logic to harass any one who is going against them.

Arvind Kejriwal and other civil society commie people should realize this is how totalitarian and despotic regimes usher in a society and they end up like regimes in Nigeria, Somalia, Ethiopia etc. if you don't punish them.

Unfortunately our lefty, commie ba$tards in CON media that include undieTV, IBN, TOIlet, IE, Hindu all think this is a fair game. They justify this all on fighting communal forces and justify it to keep getting crores from Sonia regime as advertisement fees.

Hopefully, BJP and BR will exploit this in UP elections and leverage this. We need to put an end to this harassment regardless of NDA or UPA or XXA in power. The DIE-nasty needs to be taught a lesson for this abuse.

IndraD · Post by **IndraD** » 02 Sep 2011 18:50

Indian professionals jailed in Dubai for doing AH rally

http://www.indianexpress.com/news/for-a ... ai/840542/

Chidamabaram is a liar_AH

http://ibnlive.in.com/news/home-ministe ... 772-3.html

Repeated shocks only can ensure corruption freedom

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/new ... 837496.cms

Why Indian corruption fight is just beginning

http://www.time.com/time/world/article/ ... 00,00.html

rajsunder · Post by **rajsunder** » 02 Sep 2011 20:00

sugriva wrote:The Anna Hazare Andolan has eerie similarities with the Tea Party movement in the US.

Tea Party movement is a stage managed stuff, consisting of people who are anti-science(people who hate stem cell research, Abortions, and who hate darwin theory, who want to teach abstinence only training in schools, Bible thumping, anti immigrant, Tax only poor and less taxation for rich..............)
Do u see any comparison with Anna's movement???

IndraD · Post by **IndraD** » 02 Sep 2011 20:05

http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/anna ... 49813.html

Chidamabaram is a cunning man -AH

VinayB · Post by **VinayB** » 02 Sep 2011 20:45

IndraD wrote: Why Indian corruption fight is just beginning

http://www.time.com/time/world/article/ ... 00,00.html

I was tempted by the headline to go there but I shouldn't have -

Ultimately, cleansing the country of corruption may take more than a new law. "There are no simple solutions," said Rahul Gandhi, acting head of the Congress Party. "To eradicate corruption demands a far deeper engagement and sustained commitment from each one of us."

VinayB · Post by **VinayB** » 02 Sep 2011 20:51

Government is mob of cunning people - http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/anna ... 49813.html

After 64 years of independence from the British rule, nothing has changed in this country. The whites have been replaced by black. Loot, corruption and terrorism is rampant. What have we achieved?" he asked.

Is he sure about that? Blaming it all on SDREs like that.

ShauryaT · Post by **ShauryaT** » 02 Sep 2011 21:13

Very sure. He is not yet able to express these feelings in terms of values that are imbibed in the current constitution to express this feeling but for sure in large measure, it is a replacement of the white with the black, maybe not as brutal but nevertheless still there.

Always start with a basic question, why are your streets not cleaned? or your local police or judge not accountable to you? If you dwell into the structural answers to these questions, you will see how the current structure was never designed to deliver governance but a continuation of the colonial structure, who's design intent was colonial control. We have continued with the same colonial control and divide and rule values systemically, but with a soft glove.

The argument that the current system has provided benefits is irrelevant as then some can turn around and say that even the British system provided some benefits. The question is has the current system lived up to the aspirations of the Indian people? To me, the Anna movement is a resounding no, to that question.

For me at a core level the deracination of the elite i.e: our constituent assembly members themselves was a fundamental issue on, why they framed the type of constitution they did.

Yes, I know we have the benefit of hindsight but leaders will be judged on getting the big ones right and posterity shall judge their actions.

IndraD · Post by **IndraD** » 02 Sep 2011 21:28

http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/lalu ... 49815.html

The noise created by the BJP in the Parliament over the appointment of Lokayukta in Gujarat could not disturb the former Railway Minister Lalu Prasad Yadav, who was literally caught napping in the Lok Sabha on Friday.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 02 Sep 2011 23:24

India Needs a Tea Party
Nakal

But step back from this dominant narrative and the Hazare movement looks less like an example of what's right with Indian democracy. In a smoothly functioning polity, the movement's leaders—mostly educated middle class professionals—would participate in conventional politics, or else back politicians who share their convictions. But those comprising "Team Anna," as the leaders are called, actually rail against political parties and elections.
On the face of it, India's democracy looks remarkably similar to other parliamentary systems. The country holds regular elections and power changes hands peacefully. But while these are significant achievements—especially rare among post-colonial states—there's also a glass half-empty aspect. To begin with, India's urban middle classes have long opted out of electoral politics. About 70% of India's voters live in villages, and even in the cities the middle class tends to outnumbered by the poor and semi-literate. Many working professionals—the backbone of democracy in advanced societies—believe they aren't a large enough constituency to influence policy and don't even bother to vote. The consequences of this dysfunctional political culture become clear if you compare the Hazare protests with the Tea Party movement in the U.S. In both cases, a large chunk of the middle class has decided that politics as usual is not delivering the right policies. But while the Hazare movement holds itself above politics, the Tea Party has quickly turned itself into a force in the Republican Party and thrown up a clutch of prominent politicians including Michele Bachmann, Rand Paul and Nikki Haley. Much of the blame for this kind of political culture in India lies with moribund political parties. They trawl for votes from a majority long conditioned to think in terms of caste, faith and government handouts rather than efficiency or probity which the middle classes care about.

Worse, most parties tend to be fiefdoms whose leadership is passed down like a family heirloom, whereas the middle classes have prospered from and would hence prefer a meritocracy. If, as appears likely, General Secretary Rahul Gandhi takes formal control of the Congress Party from his mother, he'll belong to the fifth generation of his family to have done so. Nor is the opposition Bharatiya Janata Party immune to this disease. The most prominent young BJP members of Parliament are almost uniformly the children of politicians.

In a family-oriented society like India, a certain amount of dynastic politics is inevitable. And, to be fair to India's politicians, many of the lawyers, chartered accountants and journalists who decry hereditary rule routinely give their own underwhelming progeny a big leg up in their professions.

But if India is to get the world-class governance that its educated citizens believe they deserve, it must begin by fixing its parties. The challenge of Indian democracy is to ensure that today's protesters are tomorrow's voters.

Most observers agree that the Hazare movement has awakened the traditionally inward-looking Indian middle class to a public cause. Now the newly awakened need to go a step further and start voting, running for office, and backing candidates who embody their values. With economic growth and urbanization, the size and influence of this potential constituency will only grow

shivajisisodia · Post by **shivajisisodia** » 02 Sep 2011 23:41

Rahul Gandhi is absolutely right, that more than a law is required to cleanse India of corruption.

It will require a revolution, no less which will impart swift trial and justice ( a la Saudi style) to the perpetrators of corruption, starting with the Italian and her son.

Rahul Gandhi is a known duffer, someone who is a know nothing. But as long as he understands this one cold fact, he has redeemed himself in my eyes.

Theo_Fidel · Post by **Theo_Fidel** » 03 Sep 2011 00:03

Prem wrote:India Needs a Tea Party

You would need Social Security and Medicare for that.

Large numbers of the Tea Party are retired on SS. This gives them time to go and disrupt meeting and government functioning. They want the entire government to be dismantled except SS & Medicare.

brihaspati · Post by **brihaspati** » 03 Sep 2011 00:05

"Saudi style justice" and "swift"?!!!!
Well if such a justice is not dispensed by Islamists like "Saudis" [or Saudi state to be more accurate] then the victims will be dubbed "martyrs". Who knows - they might even be beatified and formally enthroned as permanent saints - just as Tzar Nikolus and his family have been. Are you suggesting that we all become Islamists - because onlee if Islamists do such stuff their victims do not become martyrs?

Revolutions devour their own children and parents too. Usually the best and the brightest become the first breakfast. This is the wrong method. Please, stop and think.

To be honest, I delighted in "revolutions" when they happen against Qaddafi, or in Egypt, or against Assad. Because I want both sides to lose their steam in attrition. I do not want such "revolutions" for India. Civil war might become unavoidable, but "civil wars" are not equal equal to "revolutions". Revolutions are about profound changes of beliefs and ideologies, and consequent upheavals in all aspects of society. A "civil war" could be a result of a clash of ideologies, but could also be merely about the system or its implementation or the character of the rashtra.

Revolutions are not children's play. Do not unleash or encourage something that perhaps you cannot even imagine in its methods.

Pranay · Post by **Pranay** » 03 Sep 2011 00:44

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 841181.cms

In the words of Anna Hazare...

Earlier in his speech, Hazare accused the government of duplicity during the events before and after his arrest. "First they said they will give us J P Park. Then they refused to give us space for the fast and imposed Section 144. The police came to my house and arrested me saying I would to breach the peace. I asked them how would I disturb the peace when I was at home. The police then told me that they will release me if I paid Rs 10,000 to get bail, which I refused and told them to take me to jail. They took me to jail at 4pm and by 7pm they told me that I have been released," he said, recalling the events of August 16.

Hazare said the Delhi police were getting orders from the topmost quarters of the government. "When I asked them what had happened in the three hours to prompt the decision (to release him), the DIG said the orders had come from the top. He told me that since I was released, I cannot go back to jail. I told him that I will continue to sit in his office and hold my agitation. I sat there for three days. What kind of government is this?" he said.

Insisting that the movement for a strong Lokpal was needed, he said, "The government needs to be given a jolt time and again, like the one we gave during the nationwide agitation for the Jan Lokpal bill. The government has now realized the power of the people. The jan sansad (people's parliament) is higher than Parliament." Hazare said the government must decentralize power to stop corruption. "If the sarpanch becomes corrupt, make a law which can dismiss him. We need law to improve the lot of farmers and labourers to give them justice. We also need a law to stop commercialization of education. It seems as if they have opened shops. They demand donations, and we need a law to prevent this. The exploitation of natural resources needs to be checked by enacting another law," he said.

Addressing the criticism that Dalits had stayed away from his movement, the Gandhian said, "Politicians have created the rift based on caste and creed. At Ralegan Siddhi, the entire village offered voluntary labour (shramdaan) to repay a Rs 60,000 loan taken by a Dalit farmer. It is the bullock owned by a Dalit in our village that is worshipped during the bailpola festival."

Theo_Fidel · Post by **Theo_Fidel** » 03 Sep 2011 01:20

Sigh! Someone needs to tell him not to talk so much. It does not play well in media sound bites. Needs to stay focused. He does not seem to have thought through a lot of things and is now shooting from the hip. Hope he can handle the return fire.

Why does he bring up 'dalit' farmer. Why can't he say caste has been eliminated in our village and only farmer exists. Lack of thinking through.

IndraD · Post by **IndraD** » 03 Sep 2011 01:46

Anti corruption speech of Vishwa bandhu Gupta

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 833865.cms

Gupta, now a vigorous anti-corruption campaigner, says, "Aaj poora technical system cloud system par aa gaya hai... jo aaj aap Google istemaal karte hain... cloud system pe aa gaya hai... Abhi tak yeh study nahin ki gayi hai jab andhad aata hai tab kya hoga... kisi garib ki UID banate waqt... cloud formatting galat aati hai... baarish aa gayi toh records galat aayenge aur woh garib aadmi arrest ho jayega..."

(Today the entire technical system, Google, is cloud based... But there is no study on what happens in a storm... cloud formatting will go wrong, a UID card will have mistakes in the rain... some poor man's UID will go wrong... and he will be arrested...)

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 03 Sep 2011 09:25

well I had my tfta citibank card go bad twice from scuffing my wallet. so these things are not battle hardened for sure.

suryag · Post by **suryag** » 03 Sep 2011 09:29

I dont understand how Shri Rahul Gandhi has not developed even basic oratory skills. I mean on such an important issue he could have stolen the thunder by giving an emotional and hard hitting speech rather he chose to go the lame way of reading out from a paper. Whatever little fan following he had would now have second thoughts about his leadership abilities.

IndraD · Post by **IndraD** » 03 Sep 2011 11:17

Team Anna member Prashant Bhushan gets breach of privilege notice

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 845383.cms

I hope they (K Bedi, Bhushan etc) do not chicken out and rather opt to go to jail, it should be used as opportunity to become martyr.

sum · Post by **sum** » 03 Sep 2011 11:47

^^ After facing fire from all flanks, INC decides to raise its oldest strawman again and calls on its stock of usual suspects to the job for it:
Charges of corruption can hit Modi where it hurts

Sheela Bhatt in New Delhi

Modi has a real challenge if the allegations of corruption pick up momentum. Modi was struggling to improve his image with the minorities but now he will have to convince the majority that his deals were clean and he is above board.

Love this sentence and the artistic flair of secular brigade..

Guess the 2G( and INC neta in general) always should have allegations proved against them but for other mortals( read non-INC netas), the accused has to prove his innocence.

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 03 Sep 2011 12:13

^^^

Indra,

Kiran Bedi has already said sorry that she will not say sorry. She is ready to face the consequences of her choice. Arvind Kejeriwal has said that his resignation was within the norms of the service. Prashant Bhushan has mentioned that the GOI has learn't nothing and has resorted to dirty tricks. In order to defame character of the members of the team.

Lets see how long will the defiance of the team members last.

Pranav · Post by **Pranav** » 03 Sep 2011 15:30

Nice article by Presh Shankar Jha on the structure of the corruption economy: http://www.tehelka.com/story_main50.asp ... rstory.asp

IndraD · Post by **IndraD** » 03 Sep 2011 16:38

Anna may face FIR for flouting norms
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city ... 842073.cms

Government systematically targeting Team Anna: Kiran Bedi
http://ibnlive.in.com/news/govt-systema ... 736-3.html

The Anna Spring http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/opi ... 843570.cms

The effect of corruption on development and economic growth is a widely studied topic, and the overwhelming empirical evidence points to the contrary.

This evidence shows that corruption erodes the legitimacy of the government. Corruption misallocates government resources and increases inefficiency in the government. It directs society's energy in activities that are redundant, and often counter-productive.

It creates unfairness, inequality and inefficiency. It favours the rich who have the resources to pay bribes, and disfavours the poor, who cannot bribe. It reduces competition and slows down economic growth. Most of all, corruption erodes the moral fabric of the society.

Corruption takes place when a public official has discretionary power to distribute services or resources to the public - be that individuals or private organisations.

People often cite the example of countries such as South Korea, Indonesia and Italy, where high levels of corruption and economic prosperity coexist, to argue that corruption does not affect growth. Some even argue that corruption greases the wheels of these economies.

These are disingenuous statements with no empirical basis. High growth in Italy, South Korea, and Indonesia has occurred despite, and not because of, corruption. Indeed, corrupt societies are more likely to see a major proportion of their resources wasted in inefficient activities.

Societies with very high levels of corruption are at a greater risk of falling into economic decline than societies with less corruption.

sanjeevpunj · Post by **sanjeevpunj** » 03 Sep 2011 17:08

Cabinet ministers declare assets; Kamal Nath richest with Rs 263 crore.
Source:http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/new ... 847721.cms
NEW DELHI: Prime Minister Manmohan Singh, who had taken strong exception to a remark last month by a senior member of parliament on his personal integrity, led his council of ministers in declaring their personal assets on the official web site. His wealth is estimated at Rs.5 crore and he owns a Maruti 800 of 1996 vintage.
Minister of Urban Development, Kamal Nath's assets were the highest at Rs 263 crore, whereas Defence Minister, A K Antony's assets amounted to Rs 1.8 lakh, which was the lowest.
Home Minister P Chidambaram's assets amounted to Rs 11 crore and the Finance Minister Pranab Mukherjee's assets totaled Rs 1.8 crore.
Agriculture Minister Sharad Pawar's assets amounted to Rs 12 crore whereas External Affairs Minister, S M Krishna's assets amounted to Rs 22.15 crore.
The list included details of the prime minister, 32 cabinet ministers, seven ministers of state with independent charge and 37 ministers of state. However, 18 ministers failed to declare their assets even after three reminders.

There must be a limit set for these Ministers in high positions, about the amount of wealth they can possess. It is great to note that A K Antony is the poorest of them with just 1.8 Lakhs to declare! There are 18 ministers who have not declared their assets after 3 reminders.These ministers must be fined for not declaring their assets.Kamal Nath must be investigated, his assets are an indulgence.
A practical limit must be put down firmly on how much wealth a Minister should possess.Definitely not over 5 Crores, the PM's wealth can be considered a bench mark.

sunnyP · Post by **sunnyP** » 03 Sep 2011 17:47

/\/\

What is the point of such declarations when we all know much of it is complete rubbish? Sharad Powar worth 12 crore - have they missed out a zero somewhere? Ironically credit to Kamal Nath who appears to have declared his assets as honestly as possible.

gakakkad · Post by **gakakkad** » 03 Sep 2011 18:06

http://www.nature.com/ng/journal/vaop/n ... g.921.html

Only the naive would believe that MMS is only worth 5 crore. 500 or 5000 crore sounds more plausible . Kamal Nath has either been less dishonest than the rest , or has a legitimate source of income leading to "white assets" of 263 crore. Though most probably he ll be a lot richer. By their standards even 263 crore sounds peanuts.

Maino has occupied 10 Janpath . She did not leave even when she was not in power. That piece of real estate per se could be around 500 crore. I mean it seams to be 60k sq feet in a prime delhi location .

IndraD · Post by **IndraD** » 03 Sep 2011 20:07

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 850162.cms

A Kejriwal also get s breach of bla bla notice

http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/anna ... 49880.html

Parliament and Team Anna

Says Shekhar, "We wanted Anna Hazare to postpone his fast until we could resolve certain differences through dialogue." When the fast ended on April 9, Aruna Roy was not included in the drafting committee to represent civil society. When asked why she was not included, Kejriwal told India Today, "The Government should have named Arunaji from their side, she is a member of the National Advisory Council (NAC)."

Shekhar insists that Roy's exclusion from the drafting committee was not the problem. "The problem started when they took the position that those who do not support the Jan Lokpal Bill are either corrupt or support corruption. Their insistence that their's is the right version and should be the one presented in Parliament was a problem for us," he says.

Explains a senior civil rights activist, "All of them have reputations, turfs and stakes to protect. They are all competing for public attention through the media. Sometimes in such situations, the cause itself becomes secondary."

From Left: Satish Mishra, L.K. Advani and Sushma Swaraj at an all party meeting.Some other members of civil society are questioning the credibility of Team Anna. Arundhati Roy, unusually silent on the Lokpal issue since it first erupted in April, sees a "copybook World Bank agenda" in the movement. Roy is known to be close to Bhushan. She now accuses Kejriwal and Kiran Bedi of running ngos which receive foreign funding from the Ford and Rockefeller foundations and, therefore, following the agenda of these international ngos. Harsh Mander, a member of the Sonia Gandhi-led NAC, has called the Jan Lokpal Bill a Frankenstein monster. Says Mander, "They want the Lokpal to be the investigator, prosecutor and judge. That's highly dangerous."

Given the strong opposition Team Anna is facing from other sections of civil society, it is easy for it to be distracted. Kejriwal is determined not to let that happen. "We have great respect for Arunaji (Roy). There is hardly any difference between the Jan Lokpal Bill and NCPRI's version. It can be sorted out by discussion." He then adds with some disappointment, "All our efforts to enter into dialogue with them have failed."

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 03 Sep 2011 20:22

sanjeevpunj wrote:
There must be a limit set for these Ministers in high positions, about the amount of wealth they can possess. It is great to note that A K Antony is the poorest of them with just 1.8 Lakhs to declare! There are 18 ministers who have not declared their assets after 3 reminders.These ministers must be fined for not declaring their assets.Kamal Nath must be investigated, his assets are an indulgence.
A practical limit must be put down firmly on how much wealth a Minister should possess.Definitely not over 5 Crores, the PM's wealth can be considered a bench mark.

There should be no limit, what we require is transparency. All these numbers declared are Hogwash, Kamal nath is just being more honest than many of them there. most of those numbers are not even 1% or even 0.1% of their wealth. When the cost required today to become MP today is more than 10 crore, do you really believe those numbers put out today.

We cannot even think of wiping out corruption when living a lie like this. The Media men know all these numbers are rubbish and are still running their stories with it.

negi · Post by **negi** » 03 Sep 2011 20:33

Pawar sahab claims to have 12 crores; then all of us are big beekhmangas.

IndraD · Post by **IndraD** » 03 Sep 2011 20:35

Anna given Z security

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/new ... 849570.cms

Regarding Pawar' s asset

Sharad Pawar declared asset he had earned yesterday we must ask him to declare the one earned over (at least a month)

Sharad pawar worth 12 crore .. then suresh kalmadi must be having a BPL card :

Sharad pawar worth 12 crore .. mistakenly he filed his drivers assets

MMS : Hey Sharad, how much money do u hv? | Sharad Pawar (empties his pockets, counts diligently) : About 12 crores boss

sum · Post by **sum** » 03 Sep 2011 21:45

Maino has occupied 10 Janpath . She did not leave even when she was not in power. That piece of real estate per se could be around 500 crore. I mean it seams to be 60k sq feet in a prime delhi location .

Madam 1G had declared her assets worth 18L overall with no house and car ( excpet a ancestoral house in Italy)

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 03 Sep 2011 21:53

The problem, IMO, is the purchase price of these assets. Most of them were brought pre-1990s when the RE values were low and the registration values (published value) were even less. Even the stock values are declared at face value (a million SBI shares would be worth Rs 2-200 million at the most where as their market value can be 500-1000 times more).

Secondly other than metro areas most of RE registration value is still much less than market value.

So if the combined wealth of all INC politicians (from 1G to Galli-Gandhi) is below say 10,000 crore then how do they spend >10,000 crore (540MPs x 20 cr) in 2009 elections alone? Perhaps we should demand political parties too declare their assets.

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 03 Sep 2011 22:24

sum wrote:
Maino has occupied 10 Janpath . She did not leave even when she was not in power. That piece of real estate per se could be around 500 crore. I mean it seams to be 60k sq feet in a prime delhi location .
Madam 1G had declared her assets worth 18L overall with no house and car ( excpet a ancestoral house in Italy)

This indicates the Tone at the Top is to whitewash everything, sorry folks Lokpal or no Lokpal, if we want to reduce corruption ( elimination is very difficult), we need to vote this government out in 2014 and then put some of snake oil seelers9editors) in media to account for various cases omission and commission.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 03 Sep 2011 22:36

that is why I have said in the past Lutyens delhi is similar in imperial arrogance to whatever the leadership compound in beijing is called.

no other self-respecting country has a city within a city with its own massive security , horticulture, power, massive land holdings for the enjoyment of the political elite only. and that too the most valuable real estate in a city which has been unable to grant land to schools within city limits for quite some time for example. did you know that no large schools were able to open inside delhi to meet demand its always well outside city because no such land can be found.

demolish lutyens delhi, keep some historical structs as monuments, house the MPs and ministers in singapore style highrises (drastically reduced security burden) and convert the rest into a series of parks, schools, colleges, universities, flats , hospitals for the use of citizens.

put the president in 10 janpath and convert rashtrapati bhavan into part museum and part heritage 7* oberoi hotel (lease to a best in class chain like oberoi)