Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 12 Dec 2014

schinnas · Post by **schinnas** » 30 Dec 2014 16:46

Pakistan is bound to fail and split up into separate nation states for the simple reason that its rationale for existence and premise for separation from India was based on a falsehood. There is just no uniting factor amongst Pakistanis really - neither Islam is a uniting factor (it has never been a uniting factor anywhere in the world) nor can enimity against India perpetually be a uniting factor for that failed experimental state, for the simple reason that no negative ideal can perpetually sustain something positive for a longer time. It would probably be against the Cosmic law, if such a thing exists.

Currently Pakistanis are in denial and unable to accept the fact that they were wrong and their separate existence is bound to fail. They as a nation would need to go through the 5 stages of Kubler Ross model of handling grief and failure, that is, "Denial and isolation", Anger, Bargaining (also wishful thinking or holding everyone else responsible for their failure), Depression and Acceptance. Since they are not a homogenous entity, each nation state of Pukistan is going through this journey at a different pace. Interestingly Pakjabis are at-once in the first 3 stages. A remarkable feat indeed.

More greener versions of islam in Pukistan, more empowerment of Balochi and Sindhi and Pakhtoon nationalists, continued political instability and collapse of law and order, bankruptcy of economy, civil unrest due to inflation and unemployment will all be catalysts in fast forwarding various nation states of Pukistan through these 5 stages to the final stage of Acceptance. At the final stage, they would have come to the realization that not just Pukistan was a failed experiment, it was actually Islam that was a failure. When they realize and accept that the inherent lack of acceptance for diverse point of views and rejection of diversity espoused in Islam is contrary to natural law of evolution, they will voluntarily come back to Bharath. All the mercy and love and kindness to Pukis can be reserved till then. Whether it takes decades or centuries, I am confident that the day will one day come. May prayer is to see it in my lifetime! May the merciful Arrah either bless me with a very long life or hasten this process.

Altair · Post by **Altair** » 30 Dec 2014 16:54

^^Peace Be Upon You!!

Shreeman · Post by **Shreeman** » 30 Dec 2014 17:02

I have never bothered to address this because I suspect most folks understand this just as well:

1. Pakistan is NOT splitting any time soon, without a war. You need sustained 3-5% of the populationlevel effort for internal transition.

2. Default or no default, $3B or $30B in forex, oil or no oil; the resources available to that army will be plentiful.

3. The exchange rate will remain 1INR = x PKR. x<10. It is never reaching x>=10 . Pakistani economy doesnt work like this. And thge fake currency racket alone will ensure this.

4. The four fathers will never give up on this entity. They need it like they need ukraine, or west germany before that or taiwan now, or north korea in china's case.

This outpouring is good for analysis of how the writers here expect an Indian system or process to react given a certain change in an indicator. Impact of the same event on pakistan, not so much.

You want change, it will only come in a najibullah sort of folding event. Otherwise -- not.

member_23370 · Post by **member_23370** » 30 Dec 2014 17:07

I agree. India should proactively break up pakistan and not wait for things to happen. Start with Balouchistan and POK and then KPK and Sind will follow.

Altair · Post by **Altair** » 30 Dec 2014 17:08

shiv wrote: Different groups on Pakistan react differently to Indian actions - and if we make it easier for Pakjabis - the Baluchis and Pathans take a hit, etc..

India must definitely split the paki crack wide open with any rusty speculum we can get our hands on. I say we ask Pakistan to open a new Indian consulate in Balochistan for betterment of ties (Let AD open it, just for the heck of it). If we keep our Aman Tamasha free loaders in good humor we can bank roll Balochis to the fullest. Anyways MMS squirted in S-e-S. Lets make good on that.

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 30 Dec 2014 18:26

Why are Pushtun so poor? Because Pushtuns have no access to Indian economy. Pakjabis won't allow them that access.

Why are Baluchis so poor? Because Baluchis have no access to Indian economy. Pakjabis won't allow them that access.

Why are Sindhis so poor? Because Sindhis have no access to Indian economy. Pakjabis won't allow them that access.

Why are Gilgitians so poor? Because Gilgitians have no access to Indian economy. Pakjabis won't allow them that access.

Why are Baltistanis so poor? Because Baltistanis have no access to Indian economy. Pakjabis won't allow them that access.

It is only as independent states or states within the Indian Union, that these people would be able to latch on to the growing Indian economy and progress. If they don't liberate themselves from Pakjabi imperialism, they would remain poor. Bangladeshis did it and so they are progressing.

Poor Pushtuns, poor Baluchis, poor Sindhis, poor Gilgitians, poor Baltistanis! How long should they remain under the shoe of Pakjab!

Gerard · Post by **Gerard** » 30 Dec 2014 18:56

SSridhar wrote:Ahmedis Blamed for Peshawar Attack as Israel's Agents

The Ahmedis sowed the wind and reaped the whirlwind. They are paying the price for their role in the creation of Pakistan. The Ahmedis leaders sought to use Muslim bigotry to advance themselves. Little did they realize they were not pure enough for the land of the pure they were helping give birth to.

Shreeman · Post by **Shreeman** » 30 Dec 2014 19:03

^^^^ If you wanted to be expansionist, the time was 1948, 1952 (any idiot would have recognized china will not stop at tibet, and stopping them in tibet would have meant no aksai chin or arunachal problem, not to mention dharamsala would be clean), 1962, or 1971, or 1972 right after.

Most recently the tamils -- LTTE notwithstanding. Right now the time is for Nepal, Bhutan, Burma and Vietnam.

Feed and securebthe likes of manipuris, the naga, the ladakhis instead of obsessing about the baluchis. If you want to shed a tear, it is the east ukrainians or better still yazidis that deserve this.

Let the pakis of all hues stew in their own juice. Stick it to North Korea if you like and the Pakis and chinese will feel the pain.

Indians have no role whatsoever to play in the west. The military is not ready ( parakram, cough, cough) even if they have the technical and material means. The politicians and commercial interests are married to near west only a shade less than the dawoods. Why do you think aman ka tamasha does not die?

Short of sanctions on India, there will never be scrotal fortitude to take on the bull by the horn -- dump the two week stores for a war philosophy and build sustained industry and supply chain. Unless that happens it is all smoke and mirrors for votes.

The afghanis are for now, vastly better situated to take on the durand issue. Losing the recent elections to Ghani was an utter disaster. Still, they are the ones that will keep matters interesting.

In the mean time, at keast build road, rail, air networks in the far north and north east. That will keep what is indian today, accessible to indians.

If Russia has Beslan, USA has 9/11, poodlistan has 7/11, then with or without peshawar no one is safe from a 26/11. That cat is out of the bag.

From Nigeria to pakistan (leaving aside Iran, one hopes) -- all is somalia in the short term. It is spreading north for now, use the time wisely and not via khaadi gramodyog of style BRO development.

Already Japan will not touch Arunachal. And this "DBO is too hard to operate" is getting old. Make it a general aviation skiing/winter resort if you cant handle it. That is what you worry about, not the baluchis.

The political fortitude and initiative is thin, and exists only barely at the top. The rest of the machinary is dying to go back to the ways of pre 2013. At the end of five years, if you have your house in order then wish the western front well. Right now, use the electricity for flood lights, money for polio drops and send the track-2,3,... to behrain permanently.

vishvak · Post by **vishvak** » 30 Dec 2014 19:06

In fact, we should sent all help to Ahmedis by sending the seculars across the border into the land of pure, so rest of the co-conspirators of pakis can also join the efforts to solve all pure problems. This is the need of the hour.

How Ahmadis Helped Kashmiris and Battle for Kashmir

Hadhrat Mirza Bashir-ud Din Mahmud Ahmad, the Head of Ahmadiyya was watching the situation with a great deal of pain, he invited on July 25,1931 a dozens or so leading Muslims and he stressed upon them that some thing should be done to tell the helpless Kashmiris that there are people in India who are mindful of their lot.
..
It was an Ahmadi - Ch Zafrulla Khan who from 1948 to 1954 fought for Kashmir in the Security Council and the UN resolutions on Kashmir are an eloquent testimony of the fight that he fought.
..
The same divine figure responded by raising Furqan Battalion and it was assigned a sector on Kashmir front.

The Commander in Chief of the Pakistan army paid a tribute to the Furqan force
..
“The President of this Court (court inquiring into the 1953 disturbances) who was a member of the Commission considers it his duty to record the gratitude to Ch Zafrulla Khan for valiant fight he put up for Gurdaspur. This is apparent from the record of the boundary Commission...
..

Read it all.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 30 Dec 2014 19:30

Technically the parts of Pakistan could unite as separate states with their national interests and resources being given due recognition and a deal that put defence and foreign affairs in the hands of the centre. This was in fact attempted but West Pakistani (Manily Pakjabi, but partly Sindhi) chauvinism lost East Pakistan.

Baluchistan and the Pakhtuns were never really part of Pakistan - and they would have required special and sensitive handling from a well informed and wise leadership. That never occurred and too much blood has now been shed.

Pakistan is already about 2-3 different nations (excluding Bangladesh), but a loyal army in control of Pakjab will get support from Saudi and the USA, both of whom need the Pakjabi army. The US needs it for power projection against Iran, China and India. The Saudis need it as a Sunni force to counter Iran

I think it should be obvious to anyone that Pakistan is now a colony of the US - at least the army is a US proxy. The TTP is fighting a freedom struggle of sorts couched in Islamic terms, but Islam is the only answer they have to Western Imperialism/Universalism. And the Paki army ARE slaves of the US and will continue to be that - to OUR detriment.

We need to understand which side of our bread is buttered.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 30 Dec 2014 19:36

Peregrine wrote:The Gulf Arab foundations of terror

Since his return to power just over a year ago, Sharif has brought a lot of Gulf Arab investment into Pakistan. Relations between the Gulf Cooperation Council and Pakistan were strong long before Sharif's tenure, but one can argue that never before have we seen such an array of swift visits by ruling monarchs of Gulf states, including the United Arab Emirates, Kuwait, Bahrain and Saudi Arabia. The Gulf princes own thousands of hectares of land in southern Punjab, which they use for hunting, falconry and farming. It is no coincidence that this is also where the Punjabi Taliban emerged.

Hmmmm..

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 30 Dec 2014 19:58

ABP News ‏@abpnewstv 10m10 minutes ago
Pakistan violates ceasefire along LoC in Jammu, jawan injured.

devesh · Post by **devesh** » 30 Dec 2014 20:00

If USA were to somehow mysteriously disappear off the map of the world tomorrow, the Jihadi army of Pakistan will still continue to exist. It will continue to wage war & exist for the sole reason of waging war on India. Pakistan is a proxy of USA just as it is a proxy of PRC or Saudis or UK.

But make no mistake: even if all those countries suddenly disappear, Pakistan will continue its Jihad on India.

-swasti-

Tuvaluan · Post by **Tuvaluan** » 30 Dec 2014 20:13

devesh:"But make no mistake: even if all those countries suddenly disappear, Pakistan will continue its Jihad on India."

Pakistan cannot just continue financing its jihad against India and Afghanisthan with empty coffers, unless you happen to think that pakis can survive with empty coffers forever. How are the pakis going to pay cash to all the terrorists that they induct into the LeT and other terrorist groups directed against India? Recall Kasab's testimony as to how this is done. without a steady flow of cash from world bank and IMF, thanks to US interference and US public monies, paki army cannot pay salaries to its soldiers.

The US seems to be cr@pping in its pants at the thought of paki terrorists acquiring nukes to target them -- the situation does not change for India though as the paki nukes are already under the control of jihadis who run the pak army.

arun · Post by **arun** » 30 Dec 2014 20:31

Gerard wrote:Pakistani officials furious over country's portrayal in Homeland
One of their beefs is that the show — which stars Danes as CIA Agent Carrie Mathison on assignment in Pakistan — trashed a diplomat’s image of the capital as a bucolic oasis.

“Islamabad is a quiet, picturesque city with beautiful mountains and lush greenery,” one source said. “In ‘Homeland,’ it’s portrayed as a grimy hellhole and war zone where shootouts and bombs go off with dead bodies scattered around. Nothing is further from the truth.”
The biggest gripe is that the show depicts Pakistan as undemocratic and allied with terrorists.

“Repeated insinuations that an intelligence agency of Pakistan is complicit in protecting the terrorists at the expense of innocent Pakistani civilians is not only absurd but also an insult to the ultimate sacrifices of the thousands of Pakistani security personnel in the war against terrorism,” a source said.
“Our culture embraces Western society. Pakistan believes in the democratic system of voting in our presidents.”“Pakistanis never embraced the dictators who, in the past, ruled the country because they took over the presidency through violent means.

Shalwars in the Islamic Republic of Pakistan are surely going to get even more knotted on reading the title of this article by an individual of Indian origin, G. Pramod Kumar, on the portrayal of the Islamic Republic in the US TV series "Homeland"

.

The title in question, “How 'Homeland' is giving India free propaganda at Pakistan's expense”

:

First Post

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 30 Dec 2014 20:58

devesh wrote: But make no mistake: even if all those countries suddenly disappear, Pakistan will continue its Jihad on India.

Absolutely. But they will have less money and not have access to arms from the best and most reliable arms producer in the world.

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 30 Dec 2014 21:07

arunJi, what also particularly p!sses off TSP I am sure is that its a maacho woman CIA officer that is busting their chops

.

One thing for sure. As it is, Americans have this racist, cultural superiority outlook over turd world folks, this series, assuming it was watched by millions, will have a profound effect on the minds of whites against TSP. It will take a long time to erase. Heck, with us SDREs in almost every walk of life in US, we still get the usual "dot buster" attitude from Average American, and India TSP equal equal at the govt level, imagine what this does to the psyche of the average Joe towards TSP. (But I am not sure, as the author claims, that there will be an sympathy for India's travails against TSP as a result of this series).

Cosmo_R · Post by **Cosmo_R** » 30 Dec 2014 21:21

^^^CRamS . That should be 'dot buster'

Cosmo_R · Post by **Cosmo_R** » 30 Dec 2014 21:34

Tuvaluan wrote:..
The US seems to be cr@pping in its pants at the thought of paki terrorists acquiring nukes to target them -- the situation does not change for India though as the paki nukes are already under the control of jihadis who run the pak army.

And therein lies the solution. The US has sought to deflect Pakis from targeting the west and by inference, turning a blind eye toward anti-India terrorism. But you see, the pakis have a congenital (yes another one) defect: they are big time into 'strategic defiance. At the level of Generals, e.g. Mirza Aslam Beg and Hamid Gul, it even extends to a fantasy of roping in India against the US in the event of a US attack on Iran (look it up). At the useful abdul level, it takes the form of Faizal Shezads trying to blow up Times Square on their own dime.

Doval &Co have to work on the paki psyche that the West is a greater threat than India. Homeland is a good first step in setting off the victim-hood/enemy reaction.

Gerard · Post by **Gerard** » 30 Dec 2014 22:13

moderator note

The use of pejorative terms like ROPer and Malsi is creeping back into forum discussions. These terms are not allowed on the BR Forums.

Those members using such terms are warned to cease and desist immediately

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 30 Dec 2014 22:29

Gerard wrote:moderator note

The use of pejorative terms like ROPer and Malsi is creeping back into forum discussions. These terms are not allowed on the BR Forums.

Those members using such terms are warned to cease and desist immediately

Sirji,

Just pointing out, "malsi" has appeared in the paki main stream english press, in a lengthy article, and there was no out cry there.

Dipanker · Post by **Dipanker** » 30 Dec 2014 22:39

Cosmo_R wrote:^^^CRamS . That should be 'dot buster'

Dotbusters

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dotbusters

Founding location Jersey City, New Jersey
Years active 1985-1993
Territory New Jersey, New York
Criminal activities assault, vandalism, burglary, hate crime

Gerard · Post by **Gerard** » 30 Dec 2014 22:48

chetak wrote:
Gerard wrote:moderator note

The use of pejorative terms like ROPer and Malsi is creeping back into forum discussions. These terms are not allowed on the BR Forums.

Those members using such terms are warned to cease and desist immediately

Sirji,

Just pointing out, "malsi" has appeared in the paki main stream english press, in a lengthy article, and there was no out cry there.

No need for the sirji

This is moderator policy. It is not allowed on the forums.

Atri · Post by **Atri** » 31 Dec 2014 00:18

Tarek Fatah after long time. Regarding Peshawar killings and others. Delightful as usual.

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 31 Dec 2014 16:28

GAURAV C SAWANT ‏@gauravcsawant 22m22 minutes ago
Pak Rangers put up white flag. Seek meeting in Samba sector BSF firing reportedly kills 3 Rangers after 1 BSF jawan martyred @HeadlinesToday

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 31 Dec 2014 16:32

GAURAV C SAWANT ‏@gauravcsawant 2m2 minutes ago
DG BSF DK Pathak briefs @BJPRajnathSingh on massive ceasefire violation by Pak Rangers in Samba. BSF retaliation destroys several Pak OPs

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 31 Dec 2014 16:52

The Pakistani Rangers have waved white flags just to retrieve the bodies of dead soldiers. They have to be obliterated.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 31 Dec 2014 16:57

Pakistan to get $532 million in aid - The Hindu

The U.S. is set to grant $532 million aid package to Pakistan to spur economic growth, community building and counter-terrorism efforts, the American envoy here [Islamabad] has said.

Ambassador Richard Olson told Pakistani Finance Minister Ishaq Dar on Monday that the grant will be disbursed soon as the U.S. Congress has already given. — PTI

jash_p · Post by **jash_p** » 31 Dec 2014 17:13

Tarek Fatah after long time. Regarding Peshawar killings and others. Delightful as usual.

As per Fatah Pakis started blackmailing as soo as it born. Jinha threaten USA in 1947 that if 5 million dollers are not given then he will go to Rusian camp.

Comer · Post by **Comer** » 31 Dec 2014 17:15

SSridhar wrote:The Pakistani Rangers have waved white flags just to retrieve the bodies of dead soldiers. They have to be obliterated.

Different treatment from NLI cannon fodder.

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 31 Dec 2014 17:33

ABP News ‏@abpnewstv 5m5 minutes ago
Four Pakistani Rangers killed in retaliatory fire by BSF along international border in Samba sector of J-K: IG, BSF, Jammu Frontier, Rakesh

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 31 Dec 2014 17:34

Minhaz Merchant ‏@minhazmerchant 27m27 minutes ago
Modi-Doval doctrine of 3x retaliatory fire across LoC--Pak Rangers are learning their lesson the hard way

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 31 Dec 2014 17:37

GAURAV C SAWANT ‏@gauravcsawant 12s12 seconds ago
Pak Rangers report the death of 4 of their personnel. Atleast 5 injured, several observation posts, bunkers destroyed in BSF punitive strike

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 31 Dec 2014 18:13

GAURAV C SAWANT ‏@gauravcsawant 50s51 seconds ago
Interesting! Pak Rangers allege BSF called Rangers for flag meeting & shot dead two NCOs,reports @GeoTvNews @ShunyaVichar (Flg mtg w/ offrs)

vishvak · Post by **vishvak** » 31 Dec 2014 18:46

abhishek_sharma wrote:GAURAV C SAWANT ‏@gauravcsawant 50s51 seconds ago
Interesting! Pak Rangers allege BSF called Rangers for flag meeting & shot dead two NCOs,reports @GeoTvNews @ShunyaVichar (Flg mtg w/ offrs)

There you go. Pakis shoot then complain. I think we need to improve doctrines further and start targeting their planners, all bunch of jihadis in region around, and start taking territories. Unless we take back PoJ&K, the hallucinations of sending terrorists across will not stop.

That way the schemers will also know what is coming while hallucinating.

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 31 Dec 2014 19:09

^^^ that Tarek Fateh video is good; any chance that there is a transcript?

Ashok Sarraff · Post by **Ashok Sarraff** » 31 Dec 2014 20:11

^i second that. The Tarek Fatah interview is worth sharing with mango men at large.

JE Menon · Post by **JE Menon** » 31 Dec 2014 20:26

Also sorely in need of sub-titles

JE Menon · Post by **JE Menon** » 31 Dec 2014 23:04

Ayesha Jalal on her latest book "Struggle for Pakistan" - with "good" Haqqani at Hudson Institute

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wsmrbNduVC4

Shuja Nawaz hosts Haqqani and a rookie from Foggy Bottom, Haroon Ullah. Nothing we don't know, but keep an eye on the SD chap - amazing that this is the sort of thing that gets play there.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V8QV8KPwEjM

partha · Post by **partha** » 31 Dec 2014 23:34

jash_p wrote:
Tarek Fatah after long time. Regarding Peshawar killings and others. Delightful as usual.

As per Fatah Pakis started blackmailing as soo as it born. Jinha threaten USA in 1947 that if 5 million dollers are not given then he will go to Rusian camp.

Even before it was formed. What was direct action day if not blackmail.